Community Pitching Prospect #20 RUNOFF
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 2, 2025 11:02 AM EST
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PrintAfter 24 hours Erlin and Harvey are tied in the voting. They will face off head to head to determine the 20th pitching prospect.
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If you have been directed to vote in this poll from a particular fan site, please do not vote here. If you are new to this site or have been watching and want to start participating, you are very welcome to join the debate. Thank you.
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#01 - MATT MOORE - 91.0%
#02 - JULIO TEHERAN - 57.3%
#03 - SHELBY MILLER - 66.7%
#04 - TREVOR BAUER - 40.0%
#05 - TYLER SKAGGS - 30.0%
#06 - GERRIT COLE - 24.3% (65.2% In Runoff)
#07 - JAMESON TAILLON - 26.0% (34.7 In 3-Way Runoff, 51.2% In 2-Way Runoff)
#08 - DYLAN BUNDY - 39.3%
#09 - DANNY HULTZEN - 45.6%
#10 - TAIJUAN WALKER - 31.6% (51.5% In Runoff)
#11 - DREW POMERANZ - 34.2%
#12 - JACOB TURNER - 45.7%
#13 - JARROD PARKER - 44.4%
#14 - JAMES PAXTON - 24.6% (51.6% In Runoff)
#15 - CARLOS MARTINEZ - 48.0%
#16 - RANDALL DELGADO - 28.6%
#17 - ARCHIE BRADLEY - 33.3%
#18 - MARTIN PEREZ - 32.3% (52.6% In Runoff)
#19 - ZACK WHEELER - 29.7% (67.9% In Runoff)
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209 comments
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Comments
+1
"We did a lot of good things last year, and now we've got Julio ... That does nothing but improve the offense, and we expect to do better. That's our goal, to lead the NFL in everything. Every offensive category." -Roddy White
by Beachy Keen on Dec 2, 2025 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
+1
"If you find a man or woman who sticks around after you tell them "I may be a demented horse, but I know CPR," you marry them. No questions asked." - kishi
by CaptainCanuck on Dec 2, 2025 12:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
+1
Read Me At: Twitter/Blog/MLBBonusBaby /Giants Nirvana
by Gobroks on Dec 2, 2025 3:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
20th
http://bullpenbanter.com
RIP Randy "Macho Man" Savage
by gatling on Dec 2, 2025 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
Proof? Care to present an argument for you statement?
by cookiedabookie on Dec 2, 2025 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
I used to think this was a very likely scenario
& still don’t think it’s impossible (I think he’d be a good one - Aaron Crow style), but Harvey hasn’t given me any real reason to doubt him in the minors this year. I prefer his chances to possibly be more than a 4/5 starter than those of Robert Erlin as of today.
by Matt0330 on Dec 3, 2025 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
+1
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
by Russ on Dec 2, 2025 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
+1
I believe in Harvey Dent…I mean Matt Harvey.
by MetsCity on Dec 2, 2025 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
Reading the comments below
It appears that the campaigning some have done is frowned upon, understandably. I read Minor League Ball every day and consider myself very knowledgeable about prospects but did become aware of this community ranking via Amazin’ Avenue.
Feel free to discount my vote as I had not participated prior to now. I don’t want to throw off the results. I look forward to getting involved with future discussion in the community!
by TheBigStapler on Dec 2, 2025 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks
Welcome to the community. Personally, I’d say that with an attitude like that, your vote should count, but not my decision:)
by killa on Dec 2, 2025 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for joining us... stick around!
by Jersey Transplant on Dec 2, 2025 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for the great attitude!
That’s what the community needs, people who want to get involved overall.
http://bullpenbanter.com
RIP Randy "Macho Man" Savage
by gatling on Dec 2, 2025 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
+1
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Dec 2, 2025 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
10th
AuClair can decide whether to discount TheBigStapler’s vote
by rhd on Dec 2, 2025 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
there are 3 of them.
there were 5 last poll. hopefully the winner will win with or without the extra votes.
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 2, 2025 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
+1
"When the going gets tough, the tough get going."
by BenMc5 on Dec 2, 2025 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
+1
http://bullpenbanter.com
RIP Randy "Macho Man" Savage
by gatling on Dec 2, 2025 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
+1
For in depth fantasy analysis be sure to visit the Hawk Fantasy Sports site @ www.HawkBall.com
by PHGold09 on Dec 2, 2025 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
+1
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 2, 2025 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
This is either #23 if all votes count or #20 if there are votes being excluded
http://bullpenbanter.com
RIP Randy "Macho Man" Savage
by gatling on Dec 2, 2025 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
+1
"No good marriage ends in divorce" - Louis C.K.
by casejud on Dec 2, 2025 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
+1
Minor League Ball's 2010 Rookie of the Year Poster
If you didn't know by now, my screen name is sarcastic
by mathisrocks5 on Dec 2, 2025 3:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
+1
Yoenis Cespedes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9ge8l3jY8
^ the bottom video ^
MLB Move Type "B" compensation to the post second round, pre third round area.
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Dec 2, 2025 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
1
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Bullpen Banter's Top 100 Prospects for 2011!
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by JD Sussman on Dec 2, 2025 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
For me it comes down to two factors
1. Harvey’s much superior GO/AO ratio (1.32 vs. Erlin’s 0.68).
2. Harvey’s larger body type.
Erlin’s control and left-handedness are great but I believe Harvey’s two aforementioned advantages make him the better prospect.
by TheBigStapler on Dec 2, 2025 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
Agree with all of this
Add in the fact that Harvey’s stuff is much better, and both are close to MLB-ready, and I think Harvey has a higher ceiling with a pretty similar floor (Erlin back-end rotation vs Harvey shut down closer).
by cookiedabookie on Dec 2, 2025 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
I should say
Stop TRYING to fuck up the results. The votes you are directing here won’t count, so it doesn’t matter in the end. But it is annoying having to discount some votes.
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 2, 2025 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
My only problem with not counting the votes
Is that it sets a bad precedent, and it also devalues people’s opinion who are new to minorleagueball. We should be trying to grow the community, not keeping it insulated (a good ole boys club). Count the votes. We never stated at the beginning of this project that people couldn’t post on other sites, so let’s not retroactively make that decision.
by cookiedabookie on Dec 2, 2025 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
How do you know which votes should not be counted?
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
by Russ on Dec 2, 2025 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
You are forcing me to use my own discretion
Thankfully it is Amazin’ly obvious.
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 2, 2025 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
It is not retroactive
We had a long discussion about this in a previous poll when tarheels did it. He did it in the form of a fanpost, and then took it down. We did count those votes, but in the end I don’t think it ended up mattering. It caused a three way runoff that otherwise wouldn’t have happened.
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 2, 2025 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
So if these people vote in the next poll, will there votes be counted?
When do they officially become members of the community in your eyes, auclairkeithbc?
by cookiedabookie on Dec 2, 2025 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Don't be ridiculous
If they stick with this community after Harvey is voted on, then of course they are welcome to do so. If the next time they vote is because Russ or anyone else posts a link to a particular Mets player in a poll, then it won’t count. It is very obvious and it won’t happen here.
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 2, 2025 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Let me clarify slightly
After Harvey is elected, they will have their pitcher votes counted. But all other votes if they choose to vote in other polls, are welcome immediately, even if they are voting for other Mets.
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 2, 2025 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
"even if they are voting for other Mets"
unless it is posted at the Mets site, I assume.
by cookiedabookie on Dec 2, 2025 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Do you not see it discounting them gives them little reason to stick around a become part of the community?
by cookiedabookie on Dec 2, 2025 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it might
it is a difficult situation. the truth is, if they are interested in this community, they’ll stick around.
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 2, 2025 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Then you wasted the time, energy, and input of potential new members
If you are new here, and were directed by Russ’s posted, please post your reasoning as to why Harvey should beat Erlin. Also, I would invite you all to continue participating at minorleagueball.com and in the prospect list.
by cookiedabookie on Dec 2, 2025 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
There was virtually no time, energy or input added cookie
They clicked a link, and posted +1 supporting the player from what is probably their favorite team.
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 2, 2025 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
I did nothing that was against the rules
And I’m hardly the only one to provide a link to these posts.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
by Russ on Dec 2, 2025 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
One person did it before
He took it down after I (and others) told him to. You are doing something against the rules, yes.
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 2, 2025 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
It was not against the rules
Because there were no such rules. You have such a rule posted up above (which you may have added after you created this post,) but not on any previous posts. You are making up a rule now, and applying it retroactively.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
by Russ on Dec 2, 2025 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Please provide a link to it
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
by Russ on Dec 2, 2025 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Sigh
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 2, 2025 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Are you serious?
You actually consider that to a valid rule? It’s buried at the bottom of a post, and you never listed the rule at the top of any of these posts until today. You should seriously reconsider your tone and handle this fairly.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
by Russ on Dec 2, 2025 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
There shouldn't even have to be a stated rule
saying “please do not attempt to skew the results.” It should just be understood, that everyone wants a fair and accurate polling of what the community thinks. As a Red Sox fan, I wouldn’t want to drive others just to vote for Red Sox prospects and not even spend time defending their vote, because I want a clear picture of how they are viewed outside of the fanbase. Nobody should deliberately try to skew the results and then hide under the premise “well there wasn’t a clearly stated rule.”
"When the going gets tough, the tough get going."
by BenMc5 on Dec 2, 2025 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
This has happened in the past, but it seems like a pretty simple thing to realize without it being spelled out for you. Would any of these team specific sites want other fanbases coming and skewing results on polls they run? I doubt it.
http://bullpenbanter.com
RIP Randy "Macho Man" Savage
by gatling on Dec 2, 2025 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
why would you even think that is sensible?
this isn’t supposed to be an all-star game popularity poll.
by PrincetonCubs on Dec 2, 2025 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
What's the point of doing it though?
Where Harvey ranks on this list has absolutely nothing to do with how good of player he will turn out being. Why would you feel the need to skew the voting just to get your guy on the list earlier?
by nixa37 on Dec 2, 2025 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
And seriously, at least Tarheels has the decency
To talk up the minorleagueball community and encourage people to stick around after they voted.
by nixa37 on Dec 2, 2025 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly
I hope one of these players blows out the other (with the extra votes not mattering). As I said the previous time this happened, I do not blame anybody directed from any fan site, for voting here.
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 2, 2025 12:25 PM EST reply actions
I am hardly an active commenter on this site.
I do read it on occasion and use it as a research tool. To not count my vote because I was alerted that there was a pole that I might be interested in or have an opinion about is silly. Do Rangers or Padres fans who vote for Erlin get ignored because he is or was a part of their favorite franchise?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Dec 2, 2025 2:10 PM EST reply actions
There is no need to defend yourself
I don’t blame anyone for coming here and voting for their fan favorites. But that just isn’t what this poll is about. I’m sorry for the confusion.
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 2, 2025 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
My issue is that it draws into question when ones opinions become respected here.
There are forums out there that unless you have 1000 comments your treated as a joke. I’ve always viewed SBN blogs to be the opposite. After you gain membership (which is just a simple click of a button), you are welcome to participate and your input is not downgraded just because you’re new or non-super active. The policy that is now being implemented is obviously not as sever as what I mentioned previously, but it’s definitely in that vain.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Dec 2, 2025 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry but, get real
I’m respecting you now by calling you off-base here. You are respected here as soon as you participate, like you are now. Its a pretty darned liberal system here so, I don’t see why you are compaining about it.
"No good marriage ends in divorce" - Louis C.K.
by casejud on Dec 2, 2025 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
You have it backwards
It’s disrespectful to the community as a whole for someone to pander for votes for a specific player/team. This isn’t a new thing either, we’ve had this problem over the years with various fanbases(Giants, Rangers, A’s). If you want to be an active member of the community, fantastic. The more the better. But even if you just read the site on occasion, the polls have been going on for almost a month and you didn’t decide to participate until directed here to polls involving a Mets player.
I’d say the best solution is to lay out this poll and then vote going forward if you really want to be active in the process and the site. That would go a long way to earning respect around here I think and shows you’re not just here to get a Mets player voted onto the list.
http://bullpenbanter.com
RIP Randy "Macho Man" Savage
by gatling on Dec 2, 2025 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
you missed his point
just because he’s not active about other opinions doesn’t mean his opinion on this singular issue is not valid. he’s essentially saying how do you separate out those who came here to actually give their opinion, which they believe strongly, from those who came here to skew a vote.
it’s not as simple as saying “you didn’t vote previously, so you must be a joke and don’t care about the process as a whole.” he could simply have not had the knowledge about the other prospects to make a valid judgment, and therefore refrained from voting. in fact, he could honestly believe that he has better knowledge of Harvey or Erlin than a significant number of voters on this site, and wishes to reflect that with his vote.
anyway, an alternative solution would be to simply nix the votes of those who created a minorleagueball account just to vote for this poll, and keep the votes of those who already previously had accounts, and came here to vote on this poll, even if they never voted on previous polls.
by blue bulldog on Dec 2, 2025 5:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't miss anything
I get what he’s saying, but he and everyone else should understand how out of place it looks for someone who doesn’t post here and admits to coming to vote on the two polls he voted on at that point because he was directed to the poll by someone stumping for a Mets prospect. If he wants to prove he came here with honorable intentions and not just to vote for a prospect of his favorite team, lay out here and vote in subsequent polls(or the hitters and overall polls currently available).
If he wants to cry foul instead, that’s his choice but all it does is back up the line of thinking that he(and others) came here to vote strictly for a prospect of their favorite team. In this very thread we have another poster in TheBigStapler that took what I consider to be the correct path by saying to not count his vote because of how it looks.
As for the idea of nixing votes of those that created an account just for this poll, there isn’t any real chance that could happen. SBN sites have a 24 hour posting restriction for new members(I believe it’s system wide but maybe John has no such restriction, though in researching a few troll accounts in the past it appears that it is in effect) and these polls run 24 hours, give or take. With the +1 system and the waiting period, the only way to promote ballot stuffing or skew the results is to draw in non-active members of the site that use team specific blogs regularly by linking them to polls that feature prospects of interest to that fanbase. We’ve refined this process over the last two years to avoid these issues as best possible, direct linking/posts urging people to come here and vote are the only things out of our control at this point.
http://bullpenbanter.com
RIP Randy "Macho Man" Savage
by gatling on Dec 2, 2025 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
then it's fine
the votes should just be kept
if that’s the only way to “ballot stuff” (what you seem to be saying with the 24 hr restriction) then you’re basically safe anyway.
i don’t see how you can separate whether these normally non-active voters truly or don’t truly believe Harvey is better than Erlin. and if you can’t separate, it’s safer just to accept the moves and move on.
by blue bulldog on Dec 2, 2025 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
It's not safer at all
Allowing it sets a bad precedent, plain and simple.
http://bullpenbanter.com
RIP Randy "Macho Man" Savage
by gatling on Dec 2, 2025 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
why?
again, you have zero evidence to show that he doesn’t think Harvey is a better prospect than Erlin, which is what you need to show, in order to say that the vote is fraudulent
by blue bulldog on Dec 2, 2025 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
You don't reward bad behavior
The vote may have the purest of intentions behind it, but it came about by improper means. Allowing that type of activity to go without consequence opens you up for more problems down the road. I’ve done this project the last two years, we’ve had so many various issues of people trying to manipulate the results in different ways. This is one area where the old adage of “give an inch and they take a mile” comes into play, you stop the issue when it happens so it doesn’t become a larger issue by letting it go unchecked.
http://bullpenbanter.com
RIP Randy "Macho Man" Savage
by gatling on Dec 2, 2025 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
you have yet to explain to me
why people voting for who they honestly think is a better prospect is bad
you have also yet to explain why someone choosing to vote when they feel confident to vote, and choosing not to vote when they don’t feel confident to vote, is improper
by blue bulldog on Dec 3, 2025 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sorry that you don't get it by now
You’re missing the forest for the trees. It doesn’t matter how virtuous or true the votes or voters themselves are, they only voted because they were directed here by improper means in an attempt to skew the results of this project. The issue is the malfeasance by Russ, and you have to crack down on that to keep it from happening more in the future. The way to do that is to discard the illgotten votes, i.e. the ones that were made specifically because of the link he posted.
As for the voting here and there thing, if someone isn’t versed enough in the majority of the candidates, how can they make a proper choice? The idea that a number of people directed here from a Mets site have more detailed knowledge than the average community member on both Harvey and Erlin is pretty questionable.
It may seem like I’m trying to impugn on the rights of individuals, but I’m not. I’m trying to protect the work of the community from outside influence. Voters directed here from a link elsewhere is outside influence, even if people have accounts here already.
I don’t know how this could be more clear, but there seems to be major communication issue between the two of us so I think we’re both probably better off not communicating further.
http://bullpenbanter.com
RIP Randy "Macho Man" Savage
by gatling on Dec 3, 2025 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
Then I ask again
what is the point of membership?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Dec 3, 2025 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
This.
A lot of times I don’t have the knowledge to make an informed opinion so I hold off on doing so. Does that mean that I can’t when I do? Because that’s a consequence (intended or otherwise) of the policy that’s been introduced. And just saying that I should just hold off and vote in the other polls falls into the same problem.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Dec 2, 2025 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
I think
the large majority of people voting out of the Mets fans are being non-biased, and considering the relatively small number of voters, this only amounts to around 4 or 5 people. Sure, maybe it was publicized on a Mets site, but I wouldn’t necessarily say that’s a bad thing. There are plenty of voters for Erlin that were directed from that link, and I can see LetsGoMets413 and Evan_S as examples. It’s impossible to keep track of each user’s rationale for voting; you can speculate, but I don’t think it’d be accurate, so for the sake of keeping everyone’s hair from graying, I think it’d be best to not monitor comments unless there’s some real proof of trolling. Honestly, on this poll it hasn’t been done for fans of other teams, even though I’m sure at least one of the players who have made the list have been helped by stuffing of some sort.
Granted, I support the position that it would be stupid of me to only participate when Mets players have a shot at making the list, and for me to start now when I haven’t previously would be stupid: I don’t visit this site more than once a day and I’m bound to miss a few ballots, so I probably wouldn’t vote regularly. At the same time, the new voters should be trusted. The guys over at Amazin’ Avenue really aren’t dummies and I’m sure they know that Matt Harvey making it to #20 on the list doesn’t actually DO anything. Let ’em vote.
by METSMETSMETS on Dec 2, 2025 5:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"so for the sake of keeping everyone’s hair from graying, I think it’d be best to not monitor comments unless there’s some real proof of trolling."
Or people could just not make posts on their team’s site for the sole purpose of getting people to come here and vote for their team’s prospects (and that was clearly Russ’ intention). That’s the simplest fix to the problem. Understand, no one is blaming the Mets fans who voted, they’re blaming Russ for being a dick.
by nixa37 on Dec 2, 2025 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not so sure
He posted a comment that only read “Vote!!”
I mean yes, the subtext says “for Harvey,” but at the same time it was simply in the comments section of a post, and he only posted it once. Plus, in the end the difference in the poll was likely negligible. While the difference may be a net vote or two in favor of Harvey, the effect of removing ALL possible Harvey votes that may be directed from the link actually gives ERLIN the advantage. There clearly were people who ignored the blatant subtext and decided to vote based on their true opinion, and that was for Erlin.
by METSMETSMETS on Dec 2, 2025 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
Harvey has a 11 vote lead at this point with all votes counted. Just going by the unfamiliar usernames I get the following votes I wouldn’t count if I was running the poll instead of auclairkeithbc:
MetsCity-2 comments on this site, votes in poll #20 and the runoff for poll #20
myron kondrake-2 comments on this site, one in the Mets 2011 Top 20 review, one vote in #20 runoff poll
TheBigStapler-asked for his vote not to count.
I’m not sure who auclairkeithbc was counting, but those are the ones I’d skip. I’m not sure what votes you were calling questionable that would tip the voting to Erlin, because all you have to do is click on the username and check their post history.
http://bullpenbanter.com
RIP Randy "Macho Man" Savage
by gatling on Dec 2, 2025 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
Also count Erlin votes
Evan_S and LetsGoMets412
by METSMETSMETS on Dec 2, 2025 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Those users are from the same link
by discounting the 3 Mets votes from the same link, you must discount those two. The net loss is -1 Harvey which still leaves him with a substantial lead.
by METSMETSMETS on Dec 2, 2025 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I assume you mean LetsGoMets413
who doesn’t have an Amazin’ Avenue account and has been voting in the polls here for a minimum of three weeks based on his recent activity when you click on his username. You don’t discount votes based on username, you have to do a bit of research into it.
I’d give you Evan_S, as he’s only voted in two polls, the last runoff for Wheeler and now this one, probably both because of prompts.
The fact is removing the votes doesn’t give the advantage to Erlin, unless it was done like you did and just went by usernames or whatever it is you did to lump LetsGoMets in there.
The thing is
http://bullpenbanter.com
RIP Randy "Macho Man" Savage
by gatling on Dec 2, 2025 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
All Russ instructed us to do was "vote".
He didn’t even say who was up for voting.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Dec 2, 2025 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Has he instructed anyone to vote
for polls that didn’t include a Mets player?
http://bullpenbanter.com
RIP Randy "Macho Man" Savage
by gatling on Dec 2, 2025 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
Not to my knowledge but then again I don't follow Russ around SBN checking his postings on other blogs.
And in the end he’s not foreign us to +1 Harvey. He’d just presenting the opportunity to do so if we so choose. AA commentors aren’t stupid, their not going to vote Harvey unless they feel he deserves the spot.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Dec 2, 2025 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe I'm just that jaded
because I’ve seen it happen enough here in the past, but I won’t give any fanbase a complete pass and say they wouldn’t have people come here and vote for a prospect from their team strictly because of that affiliation. I’ve seen it too many times to discount it, and have seen it from the fanbase of my favorite team(A’s fans for Brett Anderson a few years ago) and I condemned that as well.
It has nothing to do with a particular fanbase, it’s the act of someone trying to influence the vote by directing people of any fanbase to come and vote on a specific poll or polls.
http://bullpenbanter.com
RIP Randy "Macho Man" Savage
by gatling on Dec 2, 2025 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
That I ask
what is the point of membership?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Dec 2, 2025 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps Mets fans are better than some other fans
And that’s not said sarcastically at all. As a Braves fan I respect Mets fans for the most part.
That being said, in past years we’ve had a huge problem with fans of certain teams (though never the Mets to my knowledge) clearly skewing the polls . Its the reason we use a +1 system now instead of a poll. You can forgive us for jumping to conclusions about the implication of a fanpost on AA that says “Vote” that is posted right as Harvey has a chance of getting voted on.
by nixa37 on Dec 2, 2025 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
It wasn't a fanpost (links are strictly FanShots at AA)
it was a comment on a post.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Dec 2, 2025 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
Doesn't matter what form it took
the act of linking to the poll in hopes of driving people to vote for a specific prospect is wrong.
http://bullpenbanter.com
RIP Randy "Macho Man" Savage
by gatling on Dec 2, 2025 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
True
but it clearly didn’t start a widespread epidemic of stuffing and it may have incorporated more interesting opinions. Obviously, Russ did something to degrade the integrity of this specific poll marginally, but I think it doesn’t bode well to punish others for it.
Gatling pretty clearly proved that it caused 3 more votes for Harvey, but it’s pretty clear that Mets fans from the site it linked from were more than willing to vote for Erlin.
Favorite team isn’t necessarily an ulterior motive to vote one way or another, especially here. Had this caused a truly bigger issue, I’d understand not counting the votes, but I think this just leaves a bad impression on potential users and voters.
by METSMETSMETS on Dec 2, 2025 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
I knew that, not sure why I said fanpost
You get the idea though
by nixa37 on Dec 3, 2025 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
What about those of us who are already "gray"... where's my incentive:)
by Jersey Transplant on Dec 2, 2025 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
You should really get off your high horse
None of this would have happened if this rule was posted. It’s like having a speed limit on a road with out speed limit signs.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
by Russ on Dec 3, 2025 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair
We have no rules posted. I’m not sure where I should even post such a rule.
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 3, 2025 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Then I really should be not attacked for breaking an un-posted rule
Now that I know that it exists, I’ll honor the code of the community. People just should not be shocked and offended when such a rule is broken.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
by Russ on Dec 3, 2025 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
Well
I apologize for offending you. Sincerely. I guess I thought you were aware, and I did mention it in the previous poll (only at the end), and in the body of this poll from the onset, but I did bold it later, so maybe you missed it. If so, I should have taken a lighter tone, as I did the previous time this kind of thing happened. The truth is, it is not the kind of thing I want to have to post in the body of every thread, as people might take it the wrong way (like Ogre did), but I felt a need to be emphatic. I’ll take the blame for bad phrasing/potentially offensive language.
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 3, 2025 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
Accepted
and I apologize for breaching the community’s code.
WHat I would probably do for notification is have some post somewhere outlining the rules. Then I would just add a three word hyperlinked senetence at the bottom of each poll like “Click for rules.”
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
by Russ on Dec 3, 2025 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
You shouldn't need one
Seriously, what was the point? So you could feel better about your team’s prospect by possibly skewing our voting? I just don’t understand the mindset. It seems like common sense that it would be frowned upon. I mean, if you’re going to do it, at least talk up the site and tell people they should not just vote, but stick around afterwards.
by nixa37 on Dec 3, 2025 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
What was the point about you calling me a "dick?"
So you could feel better? If you don’t understand what my mindset was, how about asking me instead of insulting me?
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
by Russ on Dec 3, 2025 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
I thought it was a dickish move, simple as that
What was your mindset? You certainly didn’t encourage people to stick around, so it wasn’t to help the community. Seems pretty damn clear you just wanted to get people to vote for Harvey so he’d make the list. Why would you think that is okay? If successful, it completely defeats the purpose of this list.
by nixa37 on Dec 3, 2025 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
If everyone starts doing what Russ did, it ends up completely ruining the list
And if you have to be alerted to the fact we’re doing an annual list that we always do around this time or only vote because a guy you like is a part of the poll, maybe you shouldn’t be voting anyway. That’s not meant to be harsh, its just not what the poll is about, as auclairekeithbc mentioned.
by nixa37 on Dec 2, 2025 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
I know this poll happens at about this time annually.
It is not however, on the top of my mind or my to do list. I don’t circle it on my calendar and count down the. Unless I visit here everyday (which I admittedly don’t), I would not know it started (which I didn’t until it was brought to my attention). It’s a great way to discourage participation in not just the polls, but in the community as a whole.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Dec 2, 2025 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Don't participate then!
I am not discouraging you from participating either. I am saying if you aren’t interested, then don’t participate, okay? Why are you arguing for the right to participate, then saying that you aren’t intertested in it? We are doing it, so participate as much or, as little as you like.
"No good marriage ends in divorce" - Louis C.K.
by casejud on Dec 2, 2025 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
Where did I say I wasn't interested in participating? Obviously I am or I wouldn't be here at all.
I would vote if my votes would be counted. Apparently they will not be because of the team I like.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Dec 2, 2025 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
The team I like and the way I found out the poll was happening.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Dec 2, 2025 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
What poll did you not vote in?
Because you were afraid your vote wouldn’t be counted.
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 2, 2025 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
Today.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Dec 2, 2025 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Oh
I thought you were talking about the previous 70 odd polls or the 2 other polls open right now.
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 2, 2025 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Oh
so I have to vote in every poll ever to vote in any of them?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Dec 2, 2025 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely not
I thought you meant that your vote was not being counting in general.
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 2, 2025 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Would you have voted if it was pointed out but no Mets guys were up to be voted on?
If so, then sure your vote should count. The fact that you came in and Harvey just happened to be #1 on your list immediately makes me think that’s probably not the case.
by nixa37 on Dec 2, 2025 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
I can see
a few guys on the list already I prefer Harvey over, including Wheeler. So I’m not surprised.
by METSMETSMETS on Dec 2, 2025 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
Okay but the question was if he would have voted if a Mets guy wasn't on the poll
by nixa37 on Dec 2, 2025 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
It's possible he wouldn't have seen it
if not for Russ, who had a clear agenda, but in the end Ogre had his own choice. And considering how he posts on Amazin’ Avenue, where most of us are eternally pessimistic about the Mets in general, he probably made the decision of Harvey over Erlin on his own merit, just as I would have, and the majority of the people on the poll have so far.
by METSMETSMETS on Dec 2, 2025 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe I'm just cynical
I hope you guys do stick around
by nixa37 on Dec 2, 2025 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
why does this question matter?
it doesn’t make a difference to the accuracy of the poll.
the only thing you have to be worried about is whether the voter thinks or does not think Harvey is actually better than Erlin
by blue bulldog on Dec 2, 2025 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
This list is supposed to represent the thoughts of this community
If we have people coming in and voting who aren’t currently part of the community and have no plans of sticking around and becoming part of the community, but just want to show up every now and then to get their teams prospects higher, don’t you see how that could make the poll a less accurate reflection of the actual community’s beliefs?
by nixa37 on Dec 3, 2025 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
wrong framework of thought
you should think of it as “i’m a member of the community. i abstain from voting on things i don’t understand. however, when i do have a strong opinion about something, i choose to vote on it.”
if i abstain from voting for a California referendum (neither a yes or no vote), it doesn’t mean i’m no longer part of the community in California. there is no reason i shouldn’t be allowed to vote for the next California senator.
all that matters is the fraudulent nature of the vote. so you should just be asking whether the vote is an honest opinion of whether Harvey or Erlin is the better pitcher. if you can’t figure it out, then it’s probably safer to just keep the vote.
the 24 hr ban on commenting for a poll means that the chance that someone shows up “wanting to get their teams’ prospects higher” is a pretty low probability. how many ppl showed up to vote anyway? most likely, it is a person who actually thinks their teams’ prospects is better than the other prospect, as opposed to someone who just wants to get a higher self-esteem from seeing their prospect higher-ranked on some meaningless list on a baseball blog.
by blue bulldog on Dec 3, 2025 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
You're part of the community bc you're a regular reader & commenter
It has nothing to do with whether or not you’ve been voting in past polls. I don’t vote in all of these polls either. My point is that this list is supposed to reflect the community’s opinion. If someone is not already a part of the community or just joined but don’t plan to remain a part of it, than they’re willingly skewing the results on a website they don’t even pay attention to.
by nixa37 on Dec 3, 2025 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
there is nothing
that suggests being a regular reader/commenter is a requirement to be part of the community
in fact, procedurally, the only thing that suggests you are a part of the community or not is whether you registered an account 24 hours ago or not
if you think there should be a requirement that only regular readers/commenters are part of the community and should be allowed to vote, then that’s a separate and debatable topic. there are huge problems with that though (how many comments does it require for you to be considered a regular as part of the community? if all you care about the regular readers, why not just set up the poll so that it’s just a composite ranking of the ten most frequent members on the site?) at the very least though, it seems obvious to me that a rule like this should be made clear at the outset of the voting process.
i just want to also point out that this concept you and gatling propose sets up ridiculously perverse incentives. essentially, you are saying it would be completely okay if someone had voted (by flipping a coin, because i have no strong opinion either way) on the past five polls, and then voted seriously on the Harvey/Erlin poll (because they happened to have a strong opinion that particular prospect), but it would be very very bad, if the same person had ignored the past five polls, and then voted seriously on the Harvey/Erlin poll.
i think sometimes people just get these weird ideas of what is morally good or bad (see gatling’s post above), and we shouldn’t reward “bad behavior” and “virtuous results” that came about through “improper means” (whatever the hell that means in the context of an online forum). they then overreact and start imposing draconian rules because they think it solves this terrible problem that is occurring. but really, try to think about what exactly is the harm that is supposedly prevented by not counting these votes, and think about the negative externalities these rules will engender. in addition to the perverse incentives i outlined above, the rules give, for better or worse, a bad impression to voters who came here voting with true intentions of thinking Harvey is better than Erlin. you then run the risk of them going back to their home blogs and discussing how unfriendly the atmosphere, whether that is actually true or not. and this decreases potential traffic to John’s site, as well as potential future gains from good discussions with knowledgeable members of that site.
you really think the benefit of having Harvey correct by one space on an online poll is worth all that?
by blue bulldog on Dec 3, 2025 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I can't speak for nixa and gatling
But your point about the potential of Mets fans linked to this vote to have more knowledge about Harvey and Erlin than the average voter, doesn’t really play into whether we count votes. I’m not sure you are correct, but isn’t a factor either way in whether we actually count the votes. I can’t read people’s minds. What I can do is make all attempts to stop an effort to turn this community poll into a war between two fan-bases. This kind of thing and general ballot stuffing happened on a massive scale in previous years. It has nothing to do with how knowledgeable or objective linked-here voters are. It is nipping an issue in the bud, or at least attempting to. I thought the issue was completely resolved after the first time it happened, and it won’t surprise me if someone else tries this again.
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 3, 2025 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
you misunderstood me, and that might be my fault
i don’t think potential Mets fans have more knowledge about Harvey than the average voter, and i would never say someone needs to be more knowledgeable than the average voter to have a vote (that wouldn’t even make sense, because through iterative steps, no one would be allowed to vote in the end)
all i’m trying to say is the voter feels more confident about voting for Harvey in this poll, than he would in a separate poll, and that’s completely reasonable since he’s a Met fan. i don’t think that we should be judging the validity of his confidence, which is what we would be doing if strike the votes.
the procedural rule of no comments within 24 hours already effectively prevents turning the community poll into a war between two fan-bases. adding additional requirements, such as striking these votes, leads to the perverse incentives i mentioned above as well as negative externalities, whereas the benefit to me seems minimal at best
by blue bulldog on Dec 3, 2025 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
eh
minorleagueball has tons of members. i don’t think we need to activate the sleeper cells when our favorite prospects are up for a close vote.
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 3, 2025 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
and that is the point
it has NOTHING to do with new voters, or even those purposely lying in the weeds waiting for a 1-on-1 match-up where they feel confident enough to cast a vote. if people wait for their favorite prospects to vote, fine. but if people wait for their favorite prospects to start lobbying for votes from other presumably like-minded voters, that is not fine.
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 3, 2025 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
Its has nothing to do with morals or anything like that
Stop trying to obfuscate the point. The whole point of the list is to get a consensus view from this community. The point is not to figure which fanbase does the best job of stuffing the ballots. You may not think its a problem as long the voters truly believe what they’re voting, but (at least according to your profile) you weren’t around a few years ago when this is what the list devolved into. It ruins the entire experience. Rarely did the people from other sites stick around or take any part in the discussions. They just continually voted for their teams prospect until they got on.
by nixa37 on Dec 3, 2025 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
Define "community"
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
by Russ on Dec 3, 2025 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
This community?
People who read/post here on a semi-regular basis whether in the past, currently, or planning on doing so going forward. Kind of a tough thing to define. I do know it certainly doesn’t include people directed here from a Mets blog who only joined to vote for Harvey or other Mets and aren’t planning on sticking around beyond that time.
by nixa37 on Dec 3, 2025 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
At what point will I become a member?
I read the main page on a regular basis but rarely the fanpost/fanshot pages. I don’t comment regularly on any site. How many comments must I post to be regarded as a legitimate member? Should I post random comments so I can meet the requirements to vote in these polls? The idea that I should vote on every prospect, not just the ones I have some knowledge about, is ridiculous. So, count my vote or not, I will still come to the site and maybe I will eventually comment enough
by myron kondrake on Dec 3, 2025 9:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Why would you take my comment that way?
This honestly feels like a comment solely made to try and start something. Basically everything you’re saying contradicts how I just defined the community. I didn’t say anything about needing to make a certain number of post or even needing to post at all. I didn’t say anything about needing to vote in every poll. In fact, I admitted that I don’t vote in quite a few of the polls when I don’t really have a good feel for who the most deserving candidate is.
You read the main page on a regular basis? How did I define the community in the post you are responding to…
People who read/post here on a semi-regular basis whether in the past, currently, or planning on doing so going forward.Look, no one is trying to stop people who legitimately want to be part of the community from participating. That’s the last thing anyone wants. The issue is posting a link to voting solely to get people to vote for a particular prospect when they have no intent of sticking around. I’ve tried to make that as clear as possible.
by nixa37 on Dec 3, 2025 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
No
I am not trying to start something. I apologize if my comment read that way. I honestly want to know what the criteria are for voting. If I use your definition of a community member, my vote should count, yet it has been singled out (albeit by Gatling, not you) as illegitimate. I feel this is unfair. The vote itself is less important to me than the reason for its exclusion.
by myron kondrake on Dec 3, 2025 10:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It got excluded because Russ broke a rule and you got caught up in the crossfire
It may have been unwritten, but I think its obvious why people would prefer than no one go to their team’s SBN site to try and get a bunch of people to vote here. You seemed to fit the profile to Gatling. Sorry you got caught up in it.
by nixa37 on Dec 3, 2025 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
You're making the assumption
that I found the poll through the link that Russ provided
by myron kondrake on Dec 3, 2025 11:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Did I say you did?
I just said you got caught up in the crossfire. Whether or not you found it on your own (and I trust you), an assumption was made by Gatling (not me) because the post that was made. It just ended up being your luck that it was your first time voting.
I hope you do vote, and more importantly, comment in these threads going forward. If you know Mets prospects and you like a particular guy, make your case for him. Maybe you’re seeing something the rest of us are missing.
by nixa37 on Dec 4, 2025 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
see this?
this is exactly what i was talking about
innocent ppl who get caught up in the crossfire, and now you have to explain your way out of it, meanwhile generating a bad impression that will spread to other sites
seriously. what’s the benefit of making a big fuss out of this, and vetoing a measly handful of votes. the costs clearly outweigh the benefits here.
as long as you don’t understand, you will continue to advocate rules that don’t serve any meaningful purposes.
by blue bulldog on Dec 4, 2025 1:47 AM EST up reply actions
I don't know
I didn’t play any role in this stuff, I’ve just given my thoughts in this thread based on past experiences. Like I said, you weren’t around when these lists were getting ruined by homers getting linked to the polls and doing everything they could to get their guy on earlier.
by nixa37 on Dec 4, 2025 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
anyway
I will continue to vote/comment as I see fit and auclairkeithbc will count or discount those votes/comments as he sees fit
by myron kondrake on Dec 3, 2025 11:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If I knew who the guys up for the vote were and therefore could make an informed decision, yes.
Or even if I just had a strong opinion of one guy, yes.
It’s not like I’d vote Harvey over the first 15-16 guys either. If it was Harvey/Wheeler v. Pomeranz, obviously I’m going to vote Pomeranz.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Dec 2, 2025 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough, I shouldn't have made assumptions
The main issue is that a small effect here could be magnified in the overall list. No pitcher that makes this list after Harvey can go on the overall list before Harvey gets voted on. If some of these voters disappear, then he could end sitting in those polls for awhile and a number of hitters may get on over pitchers that the established community (which I do hope you’ll join) actually thinks more highly of.
by nixa37 on Dec 2, 2025 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
If you think....
That the results are being skewed because Erlin has been up for runoff recently, dont forget that he was up against wheeler…. one would expect that instead of switching over to erlin, a lot of the wheeler votes would move onto harvey (if not for pure homerism just because of the coverage that harvey gets in mets circles) dont assume the results skewed just because they arent going in the order you expected them to
For in depth fantasy analysis be sure to visit the Hawk Fantasy Sports site @ www.HawkBall.com
by PHGold09 on Dec 2, 2025 2:46 PM EST reply actions
He isn't
He doesn’t care about the order, just the validity of the whole process. It has nothing to do with Erlin, specifically, at all.
"No good marriage ends in divorce" - Louis C.K.
by casejud on Dec 2, 2025 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not assuming anything
I see that 7 different people have voted in this or the previous poll (3 in both) for Harvey when they have never voted in these polls before (this year at least). 6 of those 7 were regulars on the Mets fan site. And there was a post linking viewers on the Mets fan site to come here and vote (presumably for the player from the Mets).
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 2, 2025 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
Brad Peacock
+1
He’s better than Harvey and Erlin.
by guru4u on Dec 2, 2025 4:25 PM EST reply actions
That was more me refusing to vote for either guy in the runoff
And trying to be a little humorous about it.
by guru4u on Dec 2, 2025 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
Ok well with or without the directed votes
Matt Harvey wins this thing.
by auclairkeithbc on Dec 3, 2025 1:50 PM EST reply actions
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