Shortstop Smackdown: Tim Beckham vs. Adeiny Hechavarria vs. Jose Iglesias
Tim Beckham vs. Adeiny Hechavarria vs. Jose Iglesias
As I work through the Top 20 lists and write comments for the book, the hardest decisions I have to make come down to players on the borderline between a Grade B- and a Grade C+. None of the grades are final until the book goes to press in early January, but the ones I struggle the most over are in that category. Three good examples are shortstop prospects Tim Beckham of Tampa Bay, Adeiny Hechavarria of Toronto, and Jose Iglesias of Boston.
Currently, I have Beckham and Hechavarria as C+s, and Iglesias as a B-, but that's not set in stone. I thought it might be useful to examine each player, looking at their backgrounds, scouting reports, statistics, and future progression, as I try to clarify this in my mind.
AGE and BACKGROUND:
Tim Beckham was born January 27, 1990, making him 22 years old entering the '12 season. A right-handed hitter, he is 6-0, 190 pounds. He was the first player picked in the 2008 draft, earning a bonus of $6,150,000.
Adeiny Hechavarria was born April 15, 1989, making him 23 years old for the 2012 season. A right-handed hitter, he is listed at 5-11, 180 pounds, although he looks a bit taller and bigger in person. He was signed out of Cuba in 2009, earning a signing bonus of $4,000,000 as part of a major league contract worth a total of $10,000,000.
Jose Iglesias was born January 5, 1990, making him 22 years old for 2012. A right-handed hitter, he is listed at 5-11, 175 pounds. He was signed out of Cuba in 2009 for a $6,250,000 bonus as part of a major league contract worth $8,250,000.
SUMMARY: All three players were big-bonus players who greatly impressed scouts as amateurs. Beckham and Iglesias were born in the same month and have an age advantage over Hechavarria.
SCOUTING REPORTS
Beckham was considered highly toolsy when drafted, but his reputation has declined. He's still considered to have raw power and good strength for his size as well as a strong throwing arm, but most scouts say he no longer has the range or hands to project as a regular shortstop and doesn't demonstrate the athleticism he did in high school. He has begun tapping into his power more effectively, but still struggles to control the strike zone. His running speed is now average although he's improved his ability to read pitchers and steal bases. I have seen Beckham in person and my observations confirmed the scouting reports.
Hechavarria was considered highly toolsy when signed, especially on defense, and still has that reputation. He has a strong throwing arm, soft hands, impressive range, and projects as an above-average-to-excellent defensive shortstop. With the bat, he has a touch of power and good bat speed, but his plate discipline is quite poor and he is frequently overmatched by pitchers who can change speeds. He got hot late in 2011 (more on that below) but opinions are mixed on its sustainability. His running speed is above average. I have seen him in person and my observations accorded with these reports.
Iglesias draws praise for his outstanding defense, with superior range, soft hands, and accurate and strong arm. He is already considered an excellent defensive shortstop of gold glove caliber. At the plate, he has a short, compact swing which the Red Sox say will produce a strong batting average, but which hasn't yet. He makes contact but is impatient, has very little power, and is unlikely to develop any. His running speed is a tick above average but he's not an aggressive stealer. I have seen him in person and my observations accorded with these reports.
SUMMARY: Beckham has the most power, Iglesias has the least, with Hechavarria in the middle. All three of them struggle to control the strike zone. Iglesias is an excellent defender and Hechavarria is almost as good, but Beckham doesn't have nearly as much range and projects more as a utility guy according to scouts. The best pure athlete is Hechavarria.
PERFORMANCE:
Beckham is a career .265/.331/.382 hitter through 427 minor league games, including a .275/.339/.395 mark in 107 Double-A games in the Southern League (OPS exactly league average), and a .255/.282/.462 mark in 24 games in the Triple-A International League (OPS +2 percent). The Triple-A sample size is miniscule, but is in line with his marks at lower levels. He has drawn 153 walks (8%) against 399 (21%) strikeouts in 1864 career plate appearances.
He has gradually improved his defensive reliability, lowering his error rate each year, but his range factors have been mediocre. Minor league range factors are problematic and must be taken with several grains of salt, but his marks are consistent and fit well with the scouting reports of mediocre range. His career range factor is 4.02 with a .941 fielding percentage. He has been young for his leagues.
Hechavarria is a career .255/.291/.362 hitter through 238 minor league games, including a .248/.286/.351 mark in 172 Double-A games in the Eastern League (OPS -13 percent), and a .389/.431/.537 mark in 25 games in the Triple-A Pacific Coast League (+20 percent). The Triple-A sample is very small and is much better than any hitting he had done previously. He has drawn 50 walks (5%) against 164 (16%) strikeouts in 1058 plate appearances.
Hechavarria lowered his error rate between 2010 and 2011. His range factor was very good in 2010 but below average in 2011. As stated above with Beckham, range factors can be distorted. His career fielding percentage is .966 with a career 4.14 range factor. He has been young for his leagues, although slightly older than Beckham and Iglesias.
Iglesias is a career .261/.308/.316 hitter in 171 games, including .285/.315/.357 in 57 Double-A games (OPS -8 percent) and .235/.285/.269 in 101 Triple-A games (OPS -24 percent). He has 35 walks (5%) against 115 strikeouts (17%) in 671 plate appearances.
Iglesias improved his error rate between 2010 and 2011. His range factor was below average in '10, but above average in '11. Again, I'm not sure that means a lot given the sample sizes and the problems with range factor, but I thought I would point it out. His career range factor is 4.14 with a .971 fielding percentage.
SUMMARY: Beckham draws the most walks and shows the most power, but also strikes out the most. Hechavarria and Iglesias have almost identical walk and strikeout rates. Although minor league defensive stats have problems, it is interesting that the numbers line up exactly with the reports: Iglesias and Hechavarria have better career range factors (both at 4.14) and fielding percentages than Beckham, with Iglesias being more reliable than Hechavarria.
So, putting it altogether, what do we find here?
Beckham and Iglesias are tied on the youth factor, with Hechavarria third. Hechavarria and Iglesias are better pure athletes than Beckham at this point. Beckham has the most power and draws the most walks, but he also strikes out the most. Iglesias has the best glove, both statistically and scouting-wise, with Hechavarria a close second and Beckham a clear third.
Currently I have them graded Iglesias B-, Hechavarria C+, Beckham C+. It is a definite balancing act. I went with the B- for Iglesias because he can stick at shortstop. I strongly considered it for Hechavarria because he can stick at short and I think he has the potential to hit better than he has so far. I may yet change his grade. I don't think Beckham will be a regular shortstop, but if he can handle second base and develop his hitting further, he could still end up as a decent regular, so he's a potential B- too.
I won't be making a final decision about any of this for another two weeks.
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Comments
I would put them all even.
I’m not sure you give Beckham enough credit for his hitting compared to the other two. Beckham has hit MUCH better than Iglesias.
by mr. maniac on Dec 14, 2025 12:20 PM EST reply actions
I did enjoy the writeup though, and I hope you do these more often.
They are great reads.
by mr. maniac on Dec 14, 2025 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Sure but he won't stick at shortstop
I like Beckham and own him in a keeper league but the guy is not likely to stay at short. Iglesias and Hechavarria have fantastic gloves that should give them value in the majors.
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by King Billy Royal on Dec 14, 2025 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
I think Beckham can be an average SS defensively
And he definitely wouldn’t be the worst defensive shortstop in the league. But long-term, he probably won’t be there much past the next five years. His hitting is definitely better than the other two. I would have Hechavarria ranked first, Beckham second, and Inglesias 3rd, personally. I have a lot more faith in Hechavarria turning into a decent-hitting SS than Inglesias, and Inglesias’s defense will not make up the difference between their hitting. I honestly don’t see Inglesias ever being much of a hitter in the majors, although he has been rushed (no more than the other two), and could eventually surprise. I just don’t see the Red Sox running out a 60-70 OPS+ SS out their hoping he can turn in a few Omar Vizquel type peak seasons. More likely he turns into an Adam Everett or John McDonald type.
by cookiedabookie on Dec 14, 2025 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
he definitely wouldn’t be the worst defensive shortstop in the league.when you have derek jeter at SS
when you have derek jeter at SS, he may bot even be the worst SS in his division…ZINGER!!!!!
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Dec 14, 2025 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
If Beckham could be an average-defence SS, I think he’s the best prospect here. But if he’s well-below average/utility/needs to play 2nd, then it’s difficult to rate him above Hechavarria, despite his better bat.
by gabrielsyme on Dec 14, 2025 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Those who have actually seen the guy seem to think he can stick at SS.
John seems to be on the negative side of Beckham with the BB guys.
by mr. maniac on Dec 14, 2025 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Who are the people who think he can stick at SS?
I haven’t heard many experts say good things about his glove. I hope he can stick at short as it would add value to his keeper value. ;)
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by King Billy Royal on Dec 14, 2025 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Ba has.
KL says he think he can stick, but may be a tick below average.
by mr. maniac on Dec 14, 2025 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
I think the he won't stick at SS train
is being largely driven by the fact that he is Hak Ju Lee on his tails. While he is definitely not as good as the other 2 defensively, his defense is good enough, along with his bat to play the position. He reminds me a bit of Alex Gonzalez (the one still playing). He is similar to Jake Mcgee in the since (using a Rays comp) Mcgee probably could have been a SP prospect any where else but because of the logjam in the rotation they turned him into a RP. This may happen to Beckham at SS
by Dbullsfan on Dec 14, 2025 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
I'd have them all about the same if I had to put them in order I would probably go
Iglesias, Hech, Beckham…only because I value defense pretty highly.
by Dbullsfan on Dec 14, 2025 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
"He reminds me a bit of Alex Gonzalez"
I’m not sure I see that at all. Gonzalez showed a lot more power in the upper minors than Beckham has outside of the SSS at AAA. He’s also well above average defensively at SS, while Beckham is likely never even going to be average.
by nixa37 on Dec 14, 2025 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
I change my opinion.
Hech is 1, Beckham is 2, and Iglesias is 3.
by mr. maniac on Dec 14, 2025 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
I am starting to lean this way
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by King Billy Royal on Dec 14, 2025 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
But if you’re more optimistic on Beckham’s defence than John I think he goes #1.
by gabrielsyme on Dec 14, 2025 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
Tim Beckham-Adeiny Hechavarria-Jose Iglesias
I think there’s a legitimate possibility that Tim Beckham has at least some offensive upside. I haven’t seen anything to indicate he’s atrocious in the field either, but even if he is something of a super utility type, I have next to no belief in the other two being safe bets to become everyday players due to offensive shortcomings. I’d side with Hechavarria over Iglesias though.
by Matt0330 on Dec 16, 2025 8:44 AM EST up reply actions
I can already see this thread getting out of hand.
AL East SS prospects are very polarizing.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Dec 14, 2025 12:26 PM EST reply actions
i go with hech
but that contract seems a bit much. In some cases I think the MLB contract works against their development, but that might just be speculation. Anyways if I had to choose I go with him. I have more faith that Toronto will develop him better and improve his hit tool, plus the internal competition isnt as strong in Toronto’s MiLB.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Dec 14, 2025 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
Hechavarria and Iglesias should be even IMO.
Hechavarria is a small tick below Iglesias defensively, but both will stick at short and Hech has more speed and better upside with the stick. I think that should be enough to make him at least equal with Iglesias. 8 month age difference shouldn’t mean much, right?
by allcanadian34 on Dec 14, 2025 12:34 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This
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by King Billy Royal on Dec 14, 2025 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
I think the most telling thing is that John thinks Beckham would likely need to change positions to stick in MLB. That means the advantages he has with his bat shrink a bit because he’s competing against the harder hitting second basemen (wRC+=91) rather than the lighter hitting shortstops (wRC+=88) (generalizing here)
by siggian on Dec 14, 2025 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Beckham
seems to mirror Carlos Triunfel in disappointing minors careers. I don’t understand how you can be so much more optimistic about Beckham.
by bp42810 on Dec 14, 2025 1:13 PM EST reply actions
well
Well, having seen them both, Triunfel is more awkward. Beckham, for all his problems, looks smoother.
by John Sickels on Dec 14, 2025 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, because an A prospect belongs in this conversation of C+/B- prospects
by cookiedabookie on Dec 14, 2025 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
I think
That’s the joke. :-)
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by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 15, 2025 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
C+ for all
With so much doubt about whether these guys will ever be able to hit major league pitching, seems like they should all be C+ to me.
by Trashman on Dec 14, 2025 2:05 PM EST reply actions
I think i go
Hech: B-
Beckham: C+
Iglesias: C+
Hech gets the nod but just barely. Bex and Iggy are C+ with potential and all players have time on their side. I think Beckham has a harder go of it b/c he may have to move of SS.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Dec 14, 2025 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
I agree here 100%.
I heard reports that Bex got better at short but when I saw him multiple times in the spring he was downright awful moving to his right and showed no awareness of what was going on on the basepaths.
by jcmitchell on Dec 14, 2025 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That was nearly a year ago.
I’m not saying he has improved, but I’m suggesting that he obviosuly could have.
by mr. maniac on Dec 14, 2025 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
I was going to say this
They’re all pretty mediocre. C+ all around, heavy doubts that any of them end up as regulars, frankly. Seems like a couple of John McDonald’s and a Nick Punto, to think of the two most awkward, uninspiring, and undoubtedly flawed-beyond-belief comps I could imagine. :-)
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by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 15, 2025 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry Johnny Mac..
Give me Nick Punto then & easily so.
by Matt0330 on Dec 16, 2025 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
Really not understanding the optimism in the comments (below and in the past, not John's) about Hechavarria's bat.
Very skeptical he’ll be much of a hitter at all. He basically had an awful year, similar to Iglesias’ - but with more power and a worse approach. He was older than Iglesias, a level below and in a better hitter’s park. Then he put up some very good numbers in ideal hitting conditions for 25 games at Las Vegas. He’s never hit outside of Vegas.
So the difference to many of the commenters seems to be largely based on the fact Vegas is really fun to hit in. I wonder how Iglesias and Beckham would have done there in a short sample (probably pretty well).
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by alskor on Dec 14, 2025 3:09 PM EST reply actions
+1
If you feel about Beckham the way John feels about Beckham, I think all three players belong in the C+ range. If you think Beckham can be a major-league SS, he’s obviously higher than the other two.
Most people are not confident that either Hechavarria or Iglesias can hit enough to make the majors, period. Isn’t that the definition of a C+ guy?
by AndrewTorrez on Dec 14, 2025 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
I think both are likely to make the majors and get substantial playing time whether they hit or not
When a guy can play plus defense anywhere, but especially at shortstop, it gets him into the conversation for regular playing time.
I don’t think one can really overlook the importance of defense here . . .it’s not only a huge advantage for Hech and Iglesias, but it’s a liability for Beckham. Merely being passable at shortstop is not the same as being passable at other positions, and it’s clearly not what teams seem to be looking for.
by mrkupe on Dec 14, 2025 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
OT
Didn’t scouts think Ackley sucked at defense because he wasn;t living up to the hype?
ackley and Beckham have some comparisons based on the way the prospect community views them.
by mr. maniac on Dec 14, 2025 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
what do you mean, "living up to the hype"?
I don’t think Ackley’s glove was viewed negatively because of his hitting, if that is what you are asking.
by mrkupe on Dec 14, 2025 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
I am asking that, but to a degree.
Seems to me that when a top pick doesn’t do well, scouts frown and fans of the team hurry to defend him.
by mr. maniac on Dec 14, 2025 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
hmm.
You have two arguments here. Dealing with the first, yeah, I do think there is a sense of bewilderment when the results on the field don’t match the reports of a player’s talent. Ackley was hurt by a bad start last year (and, perhaps, over-valued by a hot start to his ML career this year), but overall I think he’s been about what was expected of him.
As for the second, absolutely these types of situations tend to bring out the homers in droves. Beckham seems especially controversial, and there is definitely a group of homer types who are pushing him really hard. I guess what is irritating is that a lot of these people seem to be pushing Beckham because of his draft pedigree and the hat that he wears above all else. If his name was John Smith and he was a 9th round draft pick, would his combination of scouting reports and performance be getting all that much praise? I doubt it. Even if you aren’t really down on Beckham, it just doesn’t seem like there is that much about him to distinguish him at this point.
by mrkupe on Dec 14, 2025 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
On your second arguement, it goes the other way too.
by mr. maniac on Dec 14, 2025 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
The other way being?
If you’re not a fan of the prospects’ team, you downplay him?
My sense here is that re Beckham, Rays fans are perhaps even more defensive of their org than the player. It’s hard to accept their org could have missed. But that happens to every org. Frankly in my view the Rays haven’t really drafted so well overall, but they have had some rather outstanding individual successes. Which is good enough. 2011 is a whole other and unique story that is TBD.
Clearly the jury isn’t out on Beckham. He’s entirely too young (and playing well enough) to ignore. But the argument here that his draft position keeps him in the discussion - or perhaps better, elevates the heat in it - has at least some merit. Age vs league also has merit in his behalf.
It seems the point might be that Beckham’s apparent shortcoming is more with the d than the bat, while the others are the opposite. Youthful bats can more often develop into acceptability if not into a positive. Defense at the premium defensive position can too, but more in the direction of consistency, not sheer ability.
Is that a fair view in your mind?
by nyyfaninlaaland on Dec 14, 2025 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
It is fair.
When I said the other way, around, I mean that a player not living up to expectations can lead people to underrate him.
by mr. maniac on Dec 14, 2025 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
yes
People crap all over Beckham because he was the #1 overall pick, and he hasn’t reached their own personal expectations for him. That certainly leads to him being underrated.
I’m curious to know what Sickels’s initial thoughts were when he was drafted 1st overall, on a somewhat similar note.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2025 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 14, 2025 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
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by King Billy Royal on Dec 14, 2025 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Here's the list of players younger than him in the International League last year:
……
by rglass44 on Dec 15, 2025 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
sorry. position players. thought that would be assumed.
by rglass44 on Dec 15, 2025 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Why would that be assumed? Pitchers are players to, no?
by nixa37 on Dec 15, 2025 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Well the aging curve is exponentially different, for one.
by rglass44 on Dec 15, 2025 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
You didn't say anything about the aging curve, did you?
Look, its nice that Beckham made it to AAA at a young age, but that alone doesn’t make him a good prospect He didn’t spend long there and he didn’t do particularly well when he was there. I’m not going to give him bonus points simply because the Rays were aggressive in promoting him inseason.
by nixa37 on Dec 15, 2025 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
that's fine. i could care less about your bonus points.
my point was to address this comment:
If his name was John Smith and he was a 9th round draft pick, would his combination of scouting reports and performance be getting all that much praise?
I’d guess that if some 9th round HS pick was promoted as aggressively by a team with a great track record and is generally very conservative, and this imaginary prospect post league average or better batting lines as a SS prospect he’d be a grade C+ or higher prospect.
by rglass44 on Dec 15, 2025 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Well John graded him as a C+
And people are complaining about it by heaping more than C+ praise on him. That’s what Kupe was talking about in that quote. Not nearly as many people would be complaining about the grade if he were a 9th round pick instead of the #1 overall pick.
Again, he has worse batting lines than Pastornicky and at best equivalent scouting reports. Pastornicky came in at a B- and Beckham as a C+. What’s the problem here again?
by nixa37 on Dec 15, 2025 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
equivalent scouting reports? agree to disagree there.
beckham actually offers power and patience even if he does strike out more. it will all come out. we disagree. i disagree with john. thats what it is, but to say hes only discussed because of his draft pedigree (which is VERY important when talking about his skills) is silly.
by rglass44 on Dec 15, 2025 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
What scouts are still talking about Beckham having the tools that got him drafted so high? It seems like the assumption is that because he was drafted high he must have good tools, but all indications are that they just aren’t that good.
And where are we getting the idea that Beckham offers more patience than Pastornicky? Pastornicky walked more in rookie ball in 2008, more in low A in 2009, more in high A in 2010, and more in AAA in 2011. The only time Beckham showed more patience was in AA, and even then its relatively close (8.3% to 7.2%).
As for more power, maybe, but its actually pretty close. Beckham had a .005 advantage in AA ISO and even for their careers its just .117 to .096 (and that’s with Pastornicky facing tougher promotions…Pastornicky was actually higher in the FSL last year).
Then we get to contact, where Pastornicky has a pretty massive advantage, and speed, where Pastornicky has at least some sort of advantage, though I’m sure we could debate about how much.
by nixa37 on Dec 15, 2025 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
not necessarily.
Chin Iung Hu was also noted for his glove but it turned out couldn’t touch a ML fb. It depends on what level you’re talking about when you say that a player may not hit. There is not hitting, and there is really not hitting. There is almost no team that is willing to accept an automatic out in today’s game regardless of position (pitcher aside).
All the comparisons have been made - Jack Wilson, Adam Everett, Alcides Escobar, Ozzie Smith, etc. But all those players hit enough at points in their career to keep them around. Mentioning guys like Mark Belanger or Rey Ordonez isn’t necessarily appropriate b/c those players may not have been regulars today given that they couldn’t even hit .600 most of the time.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Dec 14, 2025 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
Escobar seems to be doing just fine
Escobar is a perfectly solid starting-caliber player, despite hitting .254/.290/.343 last year. You’d have to go back a few years, but Everett was the same way. If I thought Iglesias was a lock to match that kind of line, with his defense, he’d be a Grade B. As is, I agree with John having him as Grade B-.
Again: when it comes to plus defense at shortstop, you pretty much have to throw the book out. Batting lines that 4A guys could put up without much difficulty are good enough to make a glove wizard at short an above-average regular.
by mrkupe on Dec 14, 2025 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
teams generally keep these Everetts
around on the promise that they will improve at the plate and when they don’t, or regress, then they start to get passed around. Sure this coincides with the time that these players are young and cheap. When they start to get into their Arb years and regress or fail to advance as a hitter, they generally fall into UT level which is what’s going to happen to Escobar too.
I think Iglesias is going to have to show a little better hitting tool to be considered a B level prospect.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Dec 14, 2025 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
of course if a player regresses in performance, that might turn them into a utility player
That’s a general rule though, not something exclusive to guys who provide the bulk of their value with their gloves.
If Escobar maintains his present level of performance, he’s going to continue to be a solid regular. If he regresses, then yes, he’s probably not going to be a regular . . .although you’ve yet to give any reason why you think he is especially likely to regress. If anything, considering he’s only 25 and that there’s not really all that much room for him to regress in the first place, it would seem more likely that he will improve somewhat.
by mrkupe on Dec 14, 2025 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
if Escobar improves then he'll be fine.
that’s obvious. as I said above the all glove, no hit SS seems to fade as they climb the pay scale. Teams take advantage of their low pay rate early years but if they still fail to hit .650 teams begin to look for alternatives if they have to pay them. All the players we’ve been talking about who had significant careers as starters also hit .700 or more at times. It’s become difficult to keep a starting job hitting much less than that. The ones that do are usually the transient ones like Ronny Cedeno.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Dec 14, 2025 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
Stop making me change my opinions!!!!!!
;)
by mr. maniac on Dec 14, 2025 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Still SSS and also arbitrary endpoints but...
But Hechavarria’s improvement with the bat predated his promotion to AAA. Check out his last 12 or so AA games:
http://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx?playerid=sa541415&position=SS&season=2011
by siggian on Dec 14, 2025 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
12 Double-A games?
There’s some rock-solid improvement if I ever saw any!
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by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 15, 2025 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
Fine, I understand the sarcasm
All I was pointing out that the uptick in his offense might not be limited to just the 25 AAA games. It is possible that he turned the corner offensively and the last 12 AA games provide a little more evidence to that case.
I’m not saying that these numbers prove it. I realize that his AAA numbers are unsustainable and that there is a large element of luck in there that will disappear over time. But its also possible that there’s a real improvement here as well and there’s a streak of 37 (not just 25) games in total as, albeit not that strong, evidence.
by siggian on Dec 16, 2025 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
No, no
I’m with you actually & do recall Adeiny Hechavarria’s upturn pre-promotion . My sarcasm was pretty oblique (I was agreeing with the statement above literally even even though it wasn’t meant that way).
Diabolical, I know.
by Matt0330 on Dec 16, 2025 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
He basically had an awful year, similar to Iglesias’
Completely agree, as far as his AA numbers. But you can’t just ignore a great month, even if it was in the PCL; it was still a 141 wRC+. Maybe he made an adjustment, maybe it was luck. But with Hech and Iglesias we are looking for some basis to hope they can hit. Hech’s capacity to hit for at least some extra-base power and his strong finish to the season provide that. He also hit for some power in the AFL. Those may be thin straws on which to hope (and they are), but Iglesias doesn’t have any straws at all.
by gabrielsyme on Dec 14, 2025 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Personally
Aside from the differences in age and power, I don’t see many differences between Hech and Iggy. They look like very similar players, even with the glove. The difference in age, IMO, may give Iggy the edge over Hech.
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
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by Frag on Dec 14, 2025 4:16 PM EST reply actions
For those who have never watched this play:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UopYGbtFGVs
It’s a-mazing. It doesn’t prove anything, but it’s fun to look at.
Blogging about the Toronto Blue Jays at Bluebird Banter
by Woodman663 on Dec 14, 2025 4:17 PM EST reply actions
I love that play
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
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by Frag on Dec 14, 2025 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
Meh
Hech’s was more impressive IMO. Plus, TRAITOR!!1
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
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by Frag on Dec 14, 2025 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
+1
Seemed like Hech covered a little more ground.
by gabrielsyme on Dec 14, 2025 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
YU'RE SUCH A 26!
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
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by Frag on Dec 14, 2025 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
That’s very impressive.
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.
by Frag on Dec 14, 2025 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Woah
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.
by Frag on Dec 14, 2025 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
meh
Those jump-throws always look impressive, but how much ground does he actually cover? And he doesn’t get a tonne on the throw. The catch by the first baseman is actually more impressive to me.
by gabrielsyme on Dec 14, 2025 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
those two jump throws
don’t look better than a Justin Jackson throw I saw once. Unfortunately I can’t find it anymore.
Blogging about the Toronto Blue Jays at Bluebird Banter
by Woodman663 on Dec 14, 2025 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
Stopping, setting, and throwing >>>>>> this
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 15, 2025 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
wowwww
how did he get to that first off…… then the throw was a bullet unlike brignacs LOB
by matthewmafa on Dec 15, 2025 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
Beckham
I don’t like any of em…but if I had to pick one, it’d be Beckham. The other guys just can’t hit at all…and I don’t care how good you are defensively, if you can’t at least hit for a decent average, you got no spot.
Don’t get me wrong…have never been a Tim Beckham fan. I remember back in the day arguing with people that Gordan Beckham would be better and everyone thought I was nuts.
by Aslan on Dec 14, 2025 4:43 PM EST reply actions
Beckham strikes me as the only one with any offensive upside…I think he’s being excessively scrutinized (and not rewarded) for being the #1 overall pick.
by WrenFGun on Dec 14, 2025 5:18 PM EST reply actions
YES!
If he wasn’t drafted #1, the conversation about Beckham would be totally different!
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2025 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 14, 2025 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
You are right
There wouldn’t be a conversation because he wouldn’t be a relevant prospect.
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 14, 2025 11:49 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
A league average (not SS average) hitting shortstop who is very young for his league
wouldn’t be a relevant prospect?
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2025 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 14, 2025 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
How much does Tyler Pastornicky get talked about?
Because he’s all of a month and a half older, has posted better offensive numbers the past two years, and is every bit as likely to stick at SS.
by nixa37 on Dec 14, 2025 11:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
And yet, Patornicky is a B-
Despite the same concerns about sticking at SS (due to his arm) and his general lack of tools.
by Ben Tumbling on Dec 15, 2025 4:25 AM EST up reply actions
Like I said, he's been the better hitter
He also profiles as an above average 2B defensively at worst, so even if they don’t both stick at SS, I’ll take Pastornicky over Beckham defensively. Add Pastornicky’s advantage in terms of speed and I think its clear that Pastornicky should be ahead of Beckham.
I’m not saying Beckham isn’t a relevant prospect (whatever that means), but he’s pretty much just another C+ prospect (with an argument that he might be a B-) at this point. The only reason he gets talked about so much is because of his draft pedigree. Based on his current tools and performance up to this point, he’s just not really all that interesting.
by nixa37 on Dec 15, 2025 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Kieth Law said Beckham would be a plus defender at 2B if he needs to switch.
by mr. maniac on Dec 15, 2025 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
KLaw says a lot of things
I’ll still take the guy with plus range at SS with a questionable arm over the guy with a plus arm but questionable range when it comes to making the move to 2B.
by nixa37 on Dec 15, 2025 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I definitely think that's where he moves
While I know that they are considered equal in terms of the defensive spectrum, I’ll always take the MI.
by nixa37 on Dec 15, 2025 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
Why's that?
AL 2B outperformed their 3B counterparts at the plate, so it isn’t even like the bat is more crucial.
by rglass44 on Dec 15, 2025 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Because I think that defensive adjustments are skewed
3B defense was more important when speed and bunts played a bigger role in the game a few decades ago (data which was used in computing them), making 3B seem tougher to play than it actually is today. I also think its easier to find a guy who can hold down 3B adequately than a guy who can hold down 2B. More guys with questionable range and good arms than guys with good range and questionable arms IMO.
And why would you make a claim about where the bats are better based solely on what happened in the AL in a single season? Seems like that’s an incredibly small sample size.
by nixa37 on Dec 15, 2025 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
they also take away 2bs and 3bs as opposed to singles (at 2b) which i think youre undervaluing.
by rglass44 on Dec 15, 2025 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
You could say the same about 1B, no?
Neither of us is really bringing much to back up our opinion. Its shifted back and forth between the two positions over time. I think given the current state of the game 2B is more important, but you’re welcome to disagree.
by nixa37 on Dec 15, 2025 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Well I have Pastornicky above Beckham
But point taken.
by cookiedabookie on Dec 15, 2025 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
Iglesias
is being severely underrated because he was playing in a league where he was 4 year s younger than the average age and his xBABIP was 51 points lower than his BABIP. I know he hit awfully but those were the absolute worst circumstances he could’ve been in. I talked to a scout who had seen both of them and he said: “lots of people who haven’t seen Iglesias and Hechavarria put them in the same category defensively when they aren’t. Iglesias is out of this world defensively, Hechavarria is very good.”
by Bososx13 on Dec 14, 2025 7:08 PM EST reply actions
lol
Beckham is at the same level, and compared to Iglesias, MASHED. Does that mean he’s going to rake since he’s young? The average age at AAA is not TWENTY FIVE for prospects. It’s probably 22-23 for a “top 100” type prospect. You don’t see a lot of oldish, highly regarded prospects at that level.
Everything I’ve seen of Igelsias leads me to believe he has no idea what he’s doing with the bat.
by WrenFGun on Dec 14, 2025 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
“Hechavarria and Iglesias have almost identical walk and strikeout rates”
Beckham 7.2%BB 20.7%K 0.34 BB/K
Iglesias 5.4%BB 15.0%K 0.36 BB/K
Hechavarria 5.3%BB 16.0%K 0.31 BB/K
Is 5.x%BB almost identical for hitter who can’t enough hits?
by homein22 on Dec 14, 2025 7:32 PM EST reply actions
Bex and his D
I can’t see him ever playing for Maddon unless he can step up his D. The Rays do not compromise on D up the middle. With young cheap guys above and below, I wonder if he is long for the organization.
by ttnorm on Dec 14, 2025 9:08 PM EST reply actions
It depends on which reports you believe.
There are ones that say he is fine or average defensively at SS. There are others that say he isn’t.
by mr. maniac on Dec 14, 2025 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
Can you provide some links?
I would love to see a link from a legit prospect evaluator that says he can be average at SS in the majors. It seems like people are just making statements without providing any proof.
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 14, 2025 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously though....
Does anyone have a link from a legit prospect evaluator who believes he can stay at short?
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 14, 2025 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
Kevin Goldstein back in July
Two scouts who have evaluated Beckham in the past two months each noted significant improvement in Beckham’s defense. A potential move from shortstop was forecasted early in his career, but Beckham is not only leaner than he was as a teen—he’s cleaned up his actions, and his arm has always been a plus tool. Offensively, the scouts did not see a future star, but combined with his ability to play baseball’s toughest position, the offense should be enough to make him an everyday player, and possibly an above-average one at a position where there are arguably less than 30 players who fit that bill.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=14442
by Ben Tumbling on Dec 15, 2025 4:42 AM EST up reply actions
This is great.
Thanks for posting this. I’m not even a Beckham lover. I just don’t see how a guy like Iglesias can be ranked higher. This is good stuff.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2025 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 15, 2025 7:06 AM EST up reply actions
I've seen
all three, and for me it’s Hechevarria, Beckham and Iglesias.
I agree with what John said about Hechevarria, he appears bigger in person, and is noticeably bigger than Iglesias.
Hech and Iggy are similar defensively, but see Hechevarria getting better, can’t say the same of Iglesias..he really does remind me of Ordonez, and his bat will get better, again, can’t say the same about Iglesias.
Now, it’s a coin flip, in five years, it’s a no-brainer.
I was really looking forward to seeing Beckham in the AFL, and he was one of the more disappointing prospects I think I’ve ever seen.
He’s lazy, seems to lose focus on the field, has bad range and hands, and his speed was nothing to speak of.
To me, he’s a utility guy.
by Kelsdad on Dec 14, 2025 9:24 PM EST reply actions
Lazy? Really?
He is one of the hardest workers out there. Focus would make sense though.
by mr. maniac on Dec 14, 2025 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
And you know he is one of the hardest workers how?
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 14, 2025 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
Do you really need me to point out all the glowing remarks he gets from fellow players and coaches?
I’ll start with Mahtook: “Tim is a great, great player, and he is a great, great teammate. He loves the game of baseball, and he plays the game hard. He works his butt off. He is always in the cage, and he is always trying to get better. He is always working to be the best he can be. I think that he is a great player. He’s played really well for us out here. I think he’s a great investment by the Rays to be honest with you. He’s a good player, and he’s impressed me. In the short time that I’ve been with him, I’ve been impressed by him. He’s a great guy, and I’ve enjoyed my time with him.”
by mr. maniac on Dec 15, 2025 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
Do I need you to provide evidence when making anecdotal statements?
Ummmm……yes.
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 15, 2025 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
Do you
really expect a teammate or coach say something bad about him? Even if the FELT that way, no way anyone’s going to throw someone under the bus while they’re wearing the same uniform.
I saw him a half dozen times and wasn’t impressed by any part of his game, but the AFL is not the same as the regular season. Guys are working on stuff, guys are tired from the season and in some cases fighting injuries or rust from the four or five week layoff.
Beckham wasn’t worthy of being the number one pick and I do believe there are unrealistic expectations placed on the overall number one and Beckham’s no different.
And he’ll always be considered a bust because of that, unless he ends up a ten time All-Star, which we all know he won’t.
He won’t make one.
by Kelsdad on Dec 15, 2025 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Then he need not mention his work ethic.....
I’d rather listen to someone who has played with him than someone who has seen him in a few games.
If you want more info, I can give it.
http://magazine.stack.com/TheIssue/Article/7080/Tim_Beckhams_OffSeason_Training.aspx
http://www.tampabay.com/sports/baseball/rays/article978588.ece
http://rays.scout.com/2/1121178.html
by mr. maniac on Dec 15, 2025 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
I understand your reasoning but people in the organization are not going to badmouth one of their own
Why would an organization ever want to give negative feedback on one of its players?
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 15, 2025 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Also
I have a hunch if Beckham played for the Jays or Yankees you wouldn’t be nearly as high on him.
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 15, 2025 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
I have a feeling that if he was on the Jays, you would rank him higher. ;)
That is often a problem that happens every Beckham debate… someone (I am not talking about you) will say something wrong about Beckham when they really haven’t followed him and then Ray’s fans have to jump to his defense.
by mr. maniac on Dec 15, 2025 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't call myself a homer in term of Jays prospects
I have hated a tonne of hyped Jays prospects and mainly follow prospects because (a) I love baseball and (b) for my keeper league. However, I don’t really see you post about anybody that is outside of the Tampa system so it is hard to take your view as unbiased.
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 15, 2025 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
First of all, I do post about other prospects, but just not nearly as much.
And that is often because I don’t know enough about all the guys. I have gotten into the Rendon verse Cole debates, the Teheran debates, etc.. because those are players I know about. Unfortunately, I don’t know as much about guys who are deep in other teams systems.
Secondly, since when does followinging a team make you biased towards them? Sometimes is makes you biased, sometimes it means little, and sometimes it means you are negative about your own team.
by mr. maniac on Dec 15, 2025 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not trying to be harsh
But can you give me one example when two prospects are close where you gave the nod to the non-Ray? You tend to be a little biased and there is nothing wrong with that. It just makes me question your reports on the players.
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 15, 2025 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
Take a quick peak through the (early as I haven't voted recently) community prospect polls.
I honestly can’t remember many times when I actually compare two prospects and one was a Ray. In all honesty, the only one I can remember is Martin Perez versus Matt Moore.
by mr. maniac on Dec 15, 2025 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
Also, I read your comment about the Jays system being overrated
Which systems would you put in front of them?
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 15, 2025 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
I see you are stalking me. ;)
Cardinals and Nationals.
by mr. maniac on Dec 15, 2025 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
Also you just posted "never underestimate the homer degree of Red Sox fans" so don't you think Rays fans should be held to the same standard?
http://www.draysbay.com/2011/12/14/2634643/starting-pitcher-trade-value-pros-and-cons#
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 15, 2025 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
400+ comments
at least point me in the right direction.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2025 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 15, 2025 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, I thought there was some serious homerism going on in that post
There are guys here defending Beckham, but I don’t think anyone is making any outrageous claims that he will be a star or anything. They just don’t think he should be rated any lower than Iglesias. Or maybe that’s just me.
Now, there’s some disturbing homerism going on over in the Red Sox prospects thread. If you haven’t seen it, check it out for a good time.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2025 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 15, 2025 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
I think I tend to be more negative about prospects from my own team
See my arguing in favor of Ryan Lavarnway over Gary Sanchez - and I am a Yankees fan.
by cookiedabookie on Dec 15, 2025 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
kindly leave
just kidding
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Dec 15, 2025 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
Sure but being a Yankees fan automatically makes you mentally incompetent
;)
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 15, 2025 5:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's basically like cheering for the house to win in blackjack
by nixa37 on Dec 15, 2025 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Hey now
I was a fan growing up during the crappy late 80s early 90s years, born NYer in a family of Yankees fans. I come by it honestly :)
by cookiedabookie on Dec 15, 2025 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
The Rays settled on Beckham anyway..
if the Marlins broke team policy and gave him a no-trade, Pujols would be a Fish.
If the Rays didn’t have a team policy of not giving amateur draft picks major league contracts, Buster Posey, or Pedro Alvarez, or Brian Matusz would be in Tampa and Beckham would be who knows where.
Put all the overall number one picks in a barrel, and Beckham is much closer to the bottom than the top.
When he was drafted it was known he wouldn’t stay at short, but the Rays owe it to him to play himself off the position, like they did with BJ Upton.
Maybe he can be a decent second baseman, but he won’t be as a SS.
by Kelsdad on Dec 15, 2025 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Come you give some evidence?
As far as I am aware, Beckham was supposed to stick at SS when he was drafted.
by mr. maniac on Dec 15, 2025 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
What does
his off-season workout program have to do with him not hustling on the field?
And what does “lazy” have to do with “work ethic”
Nobody worked harder than Manny Ramirez, yet he was the laziest defender and rarely ran out ground balls.
There is a difference.
by Kelsdad on Dec 15, 2025 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Focus relates much more to what you do on the field.
At least, thats how I see the terms.
by mr. maniac on Dec 15, 2025 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Also, could you please post the link so I can read the rest of the article?
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 15, 2025 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Sure. It is a two part interview.
Part 1: http://rays.scout.com/2/1125769.html
Part 2: http://rays.scout.com/2/1126481.html
by mr. maniac on Dec 15, 2025 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
I’ll buy that, although the guy I saw was definitely not a hustler.
by Kelsdad on Dec 14, 2025 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
Remember the Upton arguements at draysbay?
by mr. maniac on Dec 15, 2025 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
I really hope you aren’t playing the race card on Kelsdad. If so, that is uncalled for a deserves an apology.
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 15, 2025 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Deserves an apology?
seriously?
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2025 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 15, 2025 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
Settle Down, Beavis
Nobody take that line of thinking any farther please.
by John Sickels on Dec 15, 2025 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
Not trying to be a jerk
I’m just tired of people throwing around the race card like it doesn’t mean anything.
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Dec 15, 2025 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
saw him in the AfL
and I don’t agree at all. Average/slightly below range, solid hands, great arm. Thick lower half and getting thicker leads me to believe he won’t be able to stay at SS for more than 4-5 more years but he certainly wouldn’t be the worst defensive SS in the Bigs (even if you threw out Jeter).
I think he at least gets a crack at the Tampa job sometime next year.
Its simple: if he hits enough he’ll stick around. If he doesn’t the defense won’t matter anyways
by ScottAZ on Dec 14, 2025 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
Tim Beckham
I think Beckham’s body type has changed quite a lot since he was drafted. Early on, he had a disproportionately thick lower half. It has taken a couple of years, but he has slowly grown into his body type - he looked much more like a baseball player in the Futures Game.
by sstamour on Dec 14, 2025 11:29 PM EST reply actions
REID BRIGNAC
could not hold down a starting spot playing shortstop for the Rays.
The Rays are one of the most defensively minded teams in baseball.
Reid Brignac plays great defense.
Sean Rodriguez claimed the starting shortstop to close out the season.
Conclusion: Defense alone does not allow you to keep a starting position on a major league baseball team. Not even one with no payroll. Not even one in which defense is coveted.
this isn't DRB
you don’t get a free pass for acting like a douchebag.
Derp
by Pikachu on Dec 11, 2025 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 14, 2025 11:50 PM EST reply actions
good comp but
Brignac had an absurdly poor time at the plate this season and there was almost no way to predict that that was going to happen (OPS of .448 and w/OBA of .203). His minor league numbers suggest that he should hit enough to be a viable regular for some teams. But yeah, clearly no team is going to carry an automatic out like that no matter how great the glove even at SS.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Dec 15, 2025 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
SRod > Bex
Not close defensively right now. And I would suggest that Brignac’s hit tool is enough to see if he can make the adjustments to play.
by ttnorm on Dec 15, 2025 9:02 AM EST reply actions
Just curious...
Did you see Reid Brignac over the past year? He is going to have to totally revamp his swing and approach to ever hit .250.
by mr. maniac on Dec 15, 2025 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
Yes
His swing was messed up as was his approach. But I think it could be fixed. It wasn’t too long ago that his bat was his ticket. He has to stay back and just drive the ball to the gaps.
by ttnorm on Dec 15, 2025 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
I would say....
Hechavarria, then Beckham, then Iglesias.
I think Hechavarria and Iglesias are close defensively, but I believe more in Hechavarria’s offensive potential. You mention the walk and strikeout rates are close, but I always like to look at strikeouts relative to power. Using (TB-H)/SO:
.40 Beckham age 20 A+
.60 Beckham age 21 AA/AAA
.33 Iglesias age 20 AA
.21 Iglesias age 21 AAA
.55 Hechavarria age 21 AA
.69 Hechavarria age 22 AA/AAA
Generally, I think anything over .80 is good, and anything under .60 is a red flag. Obviously, we are dealing with up the middle defenders here, and ones who were young for the level, so we can relax that a little. But Iglesias’s ratios there are still awful.
Overall, I think I give Hechavarria the B-, as the guy here with the best chance to both hit and field enough to be a regular. His AAA sample had little impact on the above ratios. And you confirm also that he is the best athlete here. My gut feeling is hes the guy with the best overall upside.
I would give the other two the C+, though I would take Beckham’s bat over Iglesias glove.
And I might take Tyler Pastornicky over all of them.
by acerimusdux on Dec 15, 2025 10:49 AM EST reply actions
Pastornicky is getting ignored a bit to me
I was the first one to ask to add him as a tester on the community list. I have him at the back end of my top 50 positional players.
by cookiedabookie on Dec 15, 2025 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
I could see putting him there and I think he's clearly ahead of these 3
Still don’t think he’s all that close when it comes to the community list though. I still haven’t voted for Simmons yet and I have him significantly ahead of Pastornicky.
by nixa37 on Dec 15, 2025 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, I have Simmons ahead of him as well
by cookiedabookie on Dec 15, 2025 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Simmons
Not sold on Simmons at all yet. He has no power and doesn’t have any plate discipline.
My bet is AA exposes him big time this year
by ScottAZ on Dec 16, 2025 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
How do you know he doesn't have plate discipline?
Sure, the BB rate is low, but so is the K rate. Combined with his high batting average, I see a guy who was getting pitches to hit earlier in counts and taking advantage of them. In no way does that mean he doesn’t have plate discipline.
As for having no power, I also think that may be a bit unfair. Obviously he isn’t hitting HR, but he finished second in the Carolina League in 2B and tied for 4th in 3B, so he did show the ability to hit for XBHs.
by nixa37 on Dec 16, 2025 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sold on Simmons at all either
Iglesias was a lot like Simmons last year, he had a high BA, but low secondary skills. They both had high BABIPs. Iglesias’ BABIP is low this year. Simmons did hit better by a lot, 112 wRC+ to 84, but Iglesias was 15 months younger and in a league higher that most people say is the biggest jump from level to level. now Iglesias’ wOBA was definitely inflated by BABIP. Simmons had a .329 wOBAr this year, that adjusts for BABIP. Iglesias had a .279 wOBAr in double A but a .313 wOBAr this year. Iglesias actually improved his hitting by a lot, but got very unlucky.
by Bososx13 on Dec 16, 2025 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
These are THE BEST
I’ve gotta take Beckham first, not because I believe…I just can’t give up.
Something clever...
by Dttl89 on Dec 15, 2025 3:46 PM EST reply actions

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