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Prospect Smackdown: Shelby Miller vs. Jacob Turner



Per Reader Request, here is a Prospect Smackdown between two right-handed high school pitchers from the 2009 draft: Shelby Miller of the St. Louis Cardinals and Jacob Turner of the Detroit Tigers.

Star-divide

Background and Intangibles
Miller: Shelby Miller had one of the best arms available in the 2009 draft. The high-schooler from Brownwood, Texas, was a key recruit for Texas A&M, but he couldn't turn down the Cardinals and their $2.875 million bonus offer last summer. This made him the first right-handed prep arm drafted by St. Louis in the first round since 1991. Miller's work ethic is considered excellent, and he has a strong, aggressive presence on the mound.

Turner:
Like Miller, Jacob Turner was considered one of the elite prep arms in the '09 draft. From high school in St. Louis, he was well-known on the showcase circuit and considered more experienced and polished than the average non-Sun Belt high school arm. Drafted ninth overall, he signed for a $4.7 million bonus (part of a major league contract worth $5.5 million overall), passing up North Carolina. His work ethic and mound presence are considered excellent.

Advantage:
Turner got more press as an amateur but Miller was certainly well-known, and both were premium draft picks. Both work hard and present good mound maturity for their age. I rate the intangibles as even.

Physicality, Health, and Tools
Miller: Miller is a 6-3, 195 pound right-handed hitter and thrower, born October 10th, 1990. He has a classic power pitcher body and is physically mature; he probably won't throw much harder in the future than he currently does. But that's not a problem, since he already throws 92-97 MPH, averaging 94 in most starts according to Midwest League sources, but able to bump up to 96-97 when he needs it. His fastball isn't straight and has movement, but he also works it in the strike zone well, hitting his spots. His delivery is relatively low-stress, with no significant red flags. Miller's second pitch is a solid, if inconsistent, curveball. It is very effective when thrown properly and will be a plus major league pitch with another year of development or so. He uses a changeup but it needs more work, but he's definitely got the aptitude to improve it. Miller's fastball/curveball/occasional changeup repertoire is overpowering when everything is working right. He's had no significant injury issues, and the Cardinals were very careful with his workload this year, giving him much of June away from active pitching in order to work on his mechanics on the sidelines. He pitched outstanding baseball after returning to full action in July (see below).

Turner:
Turner is a 6-5, 210 pound right-handed hitter and thrower, born May 21st, 1991. He's two inches taller than Miller and probably has more physical projectability left. He threw 90-94 MPH most of the season, averaging 92 MPH according to Midwest League sources. He hit 96-98 MPH in high school but didn't seem to be throwing as consistently hard this year. He has a very strong curveball; some observers indicate this is already a plus major league pitch, and will certainly be excellent with another year of development. He has a very good changeup, and that can also be a plus pitch if he starts using it more. His mechanics and delivery are clean and have no significant flaws. His control is very sharp for a young power pitcher. He missed some time early in the season with tightness in his forearm, but he was healthy and extremely effective down the stretch (see below).

Advantage:
At this point, it looks like Miller has a better fastball, but Turner has a more refined curveball and changeup. Turner might pick up a bit more velocity as he matures, getting their fastballs to even, but then Miller's curveball is very promising, his changeup is decent, and both of those pitches are likely to improve just as Turner's fastball is. Both of them have good command for their age. Turner's control is sharper right now, but Miller dominates a game a bit more often. Their strengths and weaknesses balance each other, and this looks even to me.

Current Performance
Miller: Miller posted a 3.62 ERA in 104.1 innings for Low-A Quad Cities in the Midwest League this year, with a 140/33 K/BB and 97 hits allowed. He gave up just seven homers while posting a 0.94 GO/AO. The K/IP is outstanding and his control was good for a young power pitcher. Note the following splits: he had a 4.79 ERA with a 56/15 K/BB and 44 hits in his first 41.1 innings, but in the second half (after resting most of June) he was devastating, with a 2.86 ERA and an 84/18 K/BB in 63 innings, with 53 hits allowed.

Turner:
 Turner began the season with West Michigan in the Midwest League, posting a 3.67 ERA with a 51/9 K/BB in 54 innings, with 53 hits allowed. Promoted to High-A Lakeland at mid-season, he remained very effective against older competition, with a 2.93 ERA and a 51/14 K/BB in 61 innings, 53 hits. Turner was extremely sharp in the last half of the season, posting a 1.28 ERA with a 41/10 K/BB in 49.1 innings in his last 10 starts, allowing 32 hits. Overall, he posted a 3.28 ERA with a 102/23 K/BB in 115 innings combined, 106 hits, seven homers and a 0.99 GO/AO.

Advantage:
Miller had a better K/IP ratio and was more consistently dominant in terms of striking people out, but Turner had a better K/BB ratio and continued to perform well against older competition. Both of them are slight fly ball types at this point, though neither has been overly vulnerable to home runs. Both pitched great in the second half, though Turner's numbers were against older players. All told, I would probably give Turner a very slight edge here, due to half his numbers coming against tougher competition. But it is very close, and I love Miller's Ks.

Projection
Miller:
I don't think that Miller is likely to pick up much additional velocity, but what he already has is plenty, and additional refinements of his secondary pitches (which I expect) would make him a future number two starter, and possibly a number one ace-type if all goes well.

Turner:
Turner threw harder in high school, and if he gets that back as he matures, he would be a number one or two starter, a rotation anchor type. Even with his current profile, his command of three strong pitches would make him at least a potential number two.

Advantage:
Assuming they stay healthy, both of these guys can be number one or two starters.

Summary
Can this be closer? I rate their intangibles, physicality, and projection as even. The only edge is in performance, where the fact that Turner performed well against older competition gives him a narrow margin over Miller. But it isn't exactly Miller's fault that the Cardinals are more cautious about promotions than the Tigers; indeed, I prefer the approach that St. Louis adopted to Detroit's historical propensity for rushing people.
    Overall, on paper I think Turner ranks just a tiny bit ahead of Miller. But I love Miller's K/IP ratio, and Detroit's willingness to jump young pitching too quickly (in my opinion) worries me enough that Miller may end up being a better bet in the long run.

Poll
Who should win the smackdown?
Shelby Miller
424 votes
Jacob Turner
463 votes

887 votes | Poll has closed

Tweet Comment 62 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Comments

Display:

Rushing prospects

I agree to a certain extent but if prospects are dominating the level they start the season at for 3-4 months, why not challenge them? Check to see if they can overcome some mental obstacles if they get off to a bad start (1 month at least) after the promotion unless they get absolutely dominated by the new competition.

Detroit, no doubt is on another level when it comes to rushing prospects especially pitchers, but I have no problem with it if these prospects dominate for at least the first 3-4 months of the season.

by hrv1978 on Sep 13, 2025 4:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Great writeup, John!

I knew it was close but I didn’t expect them to be basically dead even. Two great arms that I hope become ace pitchers in the bigs, partially because one plays for the Cards and the other is from STL.

Baseball makes the world go 'round, or at least in my world it does.

by Whiteyballer on Sep 13, 2025 4:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Given the results, I’d be really surprised if this is even. Turner struggled with some injuries, Miller had an incredibly impressive season, especially the 2nd half.

That said, I still think I prefer Turner. I really liked the way he sounded entering the draft and he came back strong at the end of the year despite his early struggles. If he can remain healthy next year, I imagine his stock will rise pretty high assuming the Tigers don’t screw him up with their uber-aggressive handling of pitchers.

So I’ll vote for Turner because of projection but I certainly understand why people would be placing Miller higher.

by jfish26101 on Sep 13, 2025 5:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Miller was my favorite HS pitcher in last year's draft...

so I’ll pick him.

That said, iTurner sounds good too.

by SenorGato on Sep 13, 2025 6:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Sharp analysis as usual.

I have to admit I’m surprised at how

by SenorGato on Sep 13, 2025 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reply fail

Baseball makes the world go 'round, or at least in my world it does.

by Whiteyballer on Sep 13, 2025 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bleh...disregard that.

Are there talks of Turner as a future bullpen arm? He kind of looks like one.

by SenorGato on Sep 13, 2025 6:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Holy shit I'm bad with this right now.

His high school mechanics kind of make me think “future closer” rather than future #1. Has there been conversation of that? Are the Tigers doing anything mechanically?

by SenorGato on Sep 13, 2025 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is probably the first time I’ve ever heard someone say Turner will be in the pen.

by jfish26101 on Sep 13, 2025 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Miller should not be winning at all...

let alone by this much. It is pretty close, but I think Turner has a pretty good size lead on him. I like Miller’s fastball a little more, but Turner is better overall. These are easily the two best pitchers from last years draft now.

ETHAN MARTIN!!!!

by joegonzo on Sep 13, 2025 6:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Disagree

As I do think they are very close I have stated before I like Miller better in the long run. I see a legitimate ace. Turner is more of a high end #2 or low end #1. So a slight tick below Miller IMO.

by JDizzidy on Sep 13, 2025 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am a cards fan, my prospect is better than your prospect.

come on drop the bias and actually look at the players.

(note i am a cards fan and an even bigger miller fan because i watched him dominate all summer)

I am the Batman .
@CodeeG

by CodyG on Sep 13, 2025 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bias

As it may appear that I am bias toward a player in the system that I root for that is not the case. I feel Miller will have 3 plus pitches or above when he reaches the majors and has a better feel for pitching than Turner. That is my opinion like everyone else posted their opinion. I am not going off number because at the level they are on the number are not that relevant. I typically look at BB rates and K/BB ratios and maybe GO/AO stats just to give me some comparisons but rarely do I look at other stats. I use video and professional writeups from scouting analysts much smarter than me. If you don’t like my opinion that is fine…but it has nothing to do with bias thoughts. In fact I was a big supporter of Turner going into the draft as I am from STL and he was a local product. So if anything that negates the bias theory of yours. I hope both are successful but I really feel Miller will turn out to be the better pitcher.

by JDizzidy on Sep 14, 2025 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not to mention

I would be scared to death in the Tigers system with the way they rush prospects. That alone might make me sway to the side of Miller no matter what team I root for.

by JDizzidy on Sep 14, 2025 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was just referring to the fact that you saw Turner as a #2 or low #1 when in fact i just can't see

how you can write off either as having a ceiling of a MLB ace.

I am the Batman .
@CodeeG

by CodyG on Sep 14, 2025 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its called

opinions. I personally see Turner as a high end #2 or low end #1. That is my opinion and you don’t have to agree with me. But you are dead wrong on saying it has anything to do with team bias.

by JDizzidy on Sep 14, 2025 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

well i assumed, ok

it’s not like my opinion of miller is any different than yours’(potential star), I’m just finding it odd that you can project a player like turner when he hasn’t really struggled yet. Perhaps you think detroits rushing of prospects might or might not factor in, but i was calling out what I thought I initially saw(bias).

I am the Batman .
@CodeeG

by CodyG on Sep 14, 2025 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Understood

When I look at Turner I have never seen an ace…always a #2 with the potential to be a low end #1 (which by all means is a rock solid SP obviously). I might be wrong…hope for all the STL area fans I am wrong since he has alot of family and friends in the area and I always root for kids that have the STL roots. I personally think both Miller and Turner should be dominating hitters at their levels (regardless of age) because there stuff is that good. I personally think when both reach AA it will be the big test. Like I stated before I just see Miller as a star and a legit ace and Turner one little notch below him.

by JDizzidy on Sep 14, 2025 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's a low end #1, Dizzidy?

Best starter on a team without a true ace? Can you give an example for reference?

I don’t favor one much over the other, and I’m not sure about the efficacy of so much results-oriented comping. Both had very, very good debuts, but straight comping of rates and counting stats as if these are established players is problematic imo. As you say, JDizz, let’s see what they’re doing in Double-A.

Big up to John for noting Turner’s FSL time and how well he pitched; I don’t see that mentioned much in discussions of these players. That’s something that actually does mean something when comping. And as always, when they’re this good, I’ll take both please! lol

by blackoutyears on Sep 14, 2025 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well

I know this strikes debate everytime I state this. But not every teams #1 is an ace. There is a difference in a #1 starter for your team and an ace. So an ace is a true stopper that your team can always count on to stop a losing streak or go deep into a game when your bullpen is overused. Guys that flat out shut you down almost every time out. You also have to do this for a few years in a row to be considered an ace IMO. There are plenty of #1 starters that aren’t defined like this. An ace is a Carpenter, Sabathia, Halladay, King Felix, Waino, Lincecum type. Guys like Haren, Weaver, Cain and Gallardo are guys that are #1 starter types (some maybe on the verge of turning into aces in the next year or 2). So I am saying as a #1 or low end #1 you can fall into this type of class or just a slight touch below but not far. Like I said before I think any team would take a Haren or Cain but they just aren’t aces IMO.

Now let the war of words start :)

by JDizzidy on Sep 14, 2025 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just looking for an explanation,

not a war. No need to don your armor. lol

Haren and the other three make sense to me. I’m fully aware of the debate over ‘ace’ vs. #1, and just wanted to make sure I was understanding your verbiage. FWIW, I think we’re a long way from knowing whether either of these guys will be the best starter on their team, much less ‘aces’. After all, Carpenter, Halladay, Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling are all guys who had the ace ceiling they eventually attained but not without some issues along the way. A lot can happen between the Midwest League and the majors.

by blackoutyears on Sep 15, 2025 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I was just saying that when I have shown my opinion on “Ace” vs #1 SP I have gotten a ton of people bash my opinion which is fine. Just was hoping to not open up the can of worms. And yes…we have a few years to even know whether these 2 will be anywhere close to where their ceiling is. When they hit AA for a full season we will know more for sure.

by JDizzidy on Sep 15, 2025 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm surprised

Surely people understand the difference between an ace and the default #1 starter in a rotation by now? I don’t think it’s even something that would be referred to as opinion. Bronson Arroyo is the Reds’ #1 starter. I can’t imagine anyone calling him an ace.

Oh well, I’m on your page at least. I guess some people will argue anything. lol

by blackoutyears on Sep 15, 2025 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shelby

I like the note John put in their current performance about Shelby’s first/second half splits. When in the first half his K/9 is actually better, but he bolds presumably how great his second half was while quoting ERA too. Which means he’s either showing how stupid it is to use ERA in those samples (or any sample under 500 IP really) or he is falling prey to it himself. Although with Shelby pitching deeper into games and having better control I will say he did have a better second half. Although did have a better GO/AO in the first half too.

by bigboy1234 on Sep 13, 2025 7:52 PM EDT reply actions  

K/BB

I was thinking more of his K/BB improving from 3.73 in the first half to 4.66 in the second.

by John Sickels on Sep 13, 2025 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jacob Turner vs. Shelby Miller

I would venture a guess that some of this vote is much like all-star game voting, popularity and team’s fans voting.
and will honestly say that I am not as familiar with Shelby Miller, but from all written he looks like a fabulous pitcher.
John, is right that the Tigers do tend to push their pitchers through the minors, case in point was Porcello who had something like 125 innings at Lakeland in 2008, and went to the Tigers in 2009, 170 innings later, an up and down 2010, due to innings spike, or dropping the curve and staying with a slider (hanging mostly) (down to Toledo and a slight tweak in arm slot) and back to using the curve, which is what he has been throwing alot more of the past month. sorry for a slight digression from the topic, but it does pertain to Jacob Turner. Now Turner had a fine end of the season with Lakeland this year. The reason for Turner not pitching deeper into games as one of the last posters commented was due to a pitch limit of around 75 per start. There are several lead writers at TigsTown and other Tigers minor league sites who have more knowledge regarding Turner than I do. Hopefully they will give a more detailed breakdown of his pitching repertoire. From all accounts he has a fluid easy action and repeatable delivery. Personally I think he should stay in the minors for all of 2011 and take it from there.

by KalineCountry on Sep 13, 2025 8:15 PM EDT reply actions  

If Turner’s and Miller’s teams weren’t mentioned, this would be a no-brainer for Turner.

When a pitcher has a reasonably good fastball and better command and offspeed stuff than another, 9 times out of 10 I’ll take the better command and offspeed stuff, no matter how good the other’s fastball is. My experience has been that it is much easier to project improvement in velocity than improvement in command or offspeed stuff.

Given the teams involved, I’m inclined to pick Miller.

by rlwhite on Sep 13, 2025 9:33 PM EDT reply actions  

People are glossing over Turner's awesome finish

Turner, at one level higher than Miller, where he was one of the youngest players, had an incredible final 10 games.
As John writes: posting a 1.28 ERA with a 41/10 K/BB in 49.1 innings in his last 10 starts, allowing 32 hits
But that also included a .169 BAA and a 0.81 WHIP and 0 HR allowed in 49.1 innings.

Turner signed a major league deal; he will get a cup of coffee in 2011 and probably start 2012 in the rotation, like Porcello in 09. I love how the Tigers promote elite talent.

by RatkoVarda. on Sep 13, 2025 9:37 PM EDT reply actions  

ahem

Miller was also dominant in the second half, as he got stretched out.

He also threw 7 shutout innings with 13k’s in the playoffs.

by BryceHarper on Sep 13, 2025 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

ahem to you

Miller dominant? no
good? yes
.240 BAA is good (.169 for Turner)
3.29 era is good (1.28 for Turner)
Ks are very, very good

but if you want to see dominant numbers to close the season, look at Turner’s

by RatkoVarda. on Sep 13, 2025 9:56 PM EDT reply actions  

huh?

Miller’s 2h ERA was 2.86
Miller’s 2h BAA .227
*not including his dominant playoff outing

Turner’s 2h ERA was 2.93
Turner’s 2h BAA was .231

They were both dominant, imo.

by BryceHarper on Sep 13, 2025 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, ERA is useless

Screw sub 3 ERAs from anyone. Also, screw pitchers who have low opponent batting averages, it’s better to allow way more hits!

"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"

by Ivdown on Sep 14, 2025 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

"way to contribute"

Yes, nothing as cogent as “muhahahahaha” in their posts. Scintillating!

by blackoutyears on Sep 14, 2025 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, you laughing like a buffoon was something much better to add to this conversation.

ERA is not the best stat to evaluate a pitcher, but no one stat alone really is, though FIP does a pretty good job.

"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"

by Ivdown on Sep 15, 2025 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah it's way better to use ERA when comparing players than FIP or XFIP or TRA or any other stat

that tries and adjusts for a players bad/good defense and show what a pitcher with a neutral defense would look like.

I am the Batman .
@CodeeG

by CodyG on Sep 14, 2025 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

FIP, xFIP, and TRA don’t tell the whole story. I know many people don’t agree with this, but there are some pitchers who are just better at not allowing hits than others. I don’t believe a hit allowed should be all on the defense, which is what FIP essentially makes it out to be.

The best way to evaluate is to take ERA, K/9, BB/9, H/9, K/BB, FIP, HR/9, innings, and use them all to see how good someone is.

I’m glad to see you actually put some effort into this post instead of acting like a jerkoff to someone else’s post.

"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"

by Ivdown on Sep 15, 2025 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

RE
I don’t believe a hit allowed should be all on the defense, which is what FIP essentially makes it out to be.

You’re incorrect. What FIP does is take defense out of the equation entirely (DIPS - Defense Independent Pitching Statistics). Using just the three true outcomes (strike out, walk, HR) has the effect of normalizing defense across a league.

FIP, xFIP, and tRA all take a variable outside the pitchers control (the defense the GM has put behind them) and remove it from the equation.

If you believe that different pitchers have the ability to induce different types of contact (i.e. GB, LD, IFFB, FB) at different velocities (i.e. Hard groundball, vs weak GB) that is reasonable. tRA incorporates batted ball data (without the velocities, obviously), as does SIERA.

SIERA and tRA treat all batted ball types equally (no hard v soft comparisons), and as far as I know, pitcher batted ball component BABIP doesn’t highly correlate from year to year (aka that there is not known significance in a pitcher’s ability to induce weak contact, or if that is even ability at all).

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by JD Sussman on Sep 15, 2025 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

That makes sense

I suppose it’s because I’ve had conversations with people about FIP and they just take FIP and completely ride off H/9 because it’s not one of the 3 true outcomes which only the pitcher can influence. This was a good explanation.

"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"

by Ivdown on Sep 16, 2025 3:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Okay here is more information

Miller: .357 BABIP against him which makes him a very unlucky pitcher. He also has a 2.87 FlP as well

Turner: A: .295 BABIP, A+ .286 BABIP so this makes him lucky compared to Miller as a normal BABIP is .310. Also Turner’s FIP are 3.29 and 3.42.

While both are good to potentially great prospects, Miller’s season is actually underrated and would have had much better numbers if he had a normal BABIP.

by Bravesin07 on Sep 13, 2025 10:11 PM EDT reply actions  

i don't assume BABIP is lucky or unlucky in the minors

R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9

by doublestix on Sep 13, 2025 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Hey, a sensible interpretation of BABIP!

by limozeen on Sep 13, 2025 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

RE: "Assume"

We should never assume anything, at any level. But, luck is absolutely an element of BABIP, solely based on what you’re actually measuring. With that said, nothing is entirely luck, and one shouldn’t assume regression.

Take minor league batted ball data for what it is worth, Miller was above average (negatively) in each component compared to major league norms. Again that doesn’t mean he’ll regress, but he could. With that said, its strange that someone so “dominating” allowed so much hard contact.

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by JD Sussman on Sep 14, 2025 6:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

you sure about that?

Normally I hate making excuses for BABIP one way or the other, and I’m pretty down on minor league LD rates (as everybody should be) . . .but Miller’s LD rate this year is only 12.9%. I’ll admit that the HR rate is decent but not great given context, but his numbers are pretty otherworldly otherwise. I don’t know much about the QC defense off the top of my head other than that Ryan Jackson is supposed to be very good at shortstop, but if I had to guess what the statistics and stuff of a player with a fluky high BABIP would look like, it’d be something pretty similar to Shelby Miller in the Midwest League.

by mrkupe on Sep 14, 2025 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure you're stating anything I didn't.

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by JD Sussman on Sep 15, 2025 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Turner reminds me of a better John Lackey. Just throwing that out there. I don’t think you can go wrong with either, though I’d probably take Turner because I believe that his control will translate to excellent MLB command.

by limozeen on Sep 13, 2025 11:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Turner, and this one is fairly easy

Turner was the consensus better prospect in the 09 draft, was promoted and played half the year in a level higher, and had similar results to Miller.

So why would anyone vote for Miller? I like Miller a lot, but Turner has a fairly good edge right now.

by guru4u on Sep 14, 2025 9:32 AM EDT reply actions  

The reason Miller was not promoted

is because the Cardinals were being FAR more cautious with him. He very well could have been promoted at several points throughout the year. Although I admit my bias towards Miller, I find it to be very close. 1 and 1a so to speak.

Baseball makes the world go 'round, or at least in my world it does.

by Whiteyballer on Sep 14, 2025 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree for the most part

I’m not suggesting one should be #20 on a prospect list and the other #50. There really are only 5-10 slots difference.

I think the Cards too wanted Miller to stay all year in low A to help refine his control. He was very erratic at times. I actually got to see him pitch last Wednesday, and he looked amazing.

by guru4u on Sep 14, 2025 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

because

People believe that Miller has made better advancement this year that don’t necessarily show up in a statline?

by mrkupe on Sep 14, 2025 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is that a good argument though?

Miller took a big step forward, but so did Turner. And Turner did it against better competition.

Honestly, I think people are stuck on that rough stretch Turner had when he first was promoted to high A rather than looking at the big picture.

by guru4u on Sep 14, 2025 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's certainly a good argument

The problem is, you’d have to actually see both of these guys pitch in order to know just how advanced they are respectively.

All in all, I think Miller has made more progress in the last year, if only because he was VERY raw coming out of high school. His 2010 has been an utter revelation, and while Turner has had an excellent year, he definitely had more polish to his game coming out of high school than Miller.

by mrkupe on Sep 15, 2025 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Tiger Fan

I’m a Tiger Fan, and I would far rather have Miller. The Tigers already had a “top prospect” who has turned out to be a soft-tosser who will be a middle of the rotation guy at best (Porcello). I’d really prefer the guy who has the better K numbers, given relatively similar numbers in other areas.

by RobSk on Sep 14, 2025 11:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Just because Porcello didn't pan out quite as expected

Does not mean Turner will not.

I highly doubt you downgrade Mike Trout simply because Brandon Wood did not pan out.

by guru4u on Sep 14, 2025 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still disagree with this.
The Tigers already had a "top prospect" who has turned out to be a soft-tosser who will be a middle of the rotation guy at best (Porcello).

I mean, had they not shoved him in the 2009 rotation and then finagled with him in 2010 , and actually given him the time he needed in the minors to work on stuff.

Great prospect, horrible handling.

Needs moar dingerz.

by Blicks on Sep 14, 2025 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I voted Turner

Miller probably will have the better shot, because he’s not going to be maniacally handled by Detroit, but I still think Turner is the better pitching prospect.

In other words, please no Turner in the 2011 rotation.

Needs moar dingerz.

by Blicks on Sep 14, 2025 6:20 PM EDT reply actions  

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