Sunday Discussion

by John Sickels on Sep 7, 2025 12:23 PM EDT

I was surprised that the Bumgarner/Chacin voting wasn't closer. So let's try again...would you rather have Dexter Fowler of the Rockies or Travis Snider of the Blue Jays? Both outfielders, but with very different styles of play, different strengths and weaknesses.

Poll

Fowler or Snider?

Dexter Fowler

510 votes

Travis Snider

955 votes

1465 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 39 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

I like Fowler a lot, but...

I’m just too sold on Snider being a truly elite hitter.

by aap212 on Sep 7, 2025 2:02 PM EDT 0 recs

Fowler

I said Fowler here due to Snider’s future as a DH and his strike-out issues. I prefer Fowler’s value as a CF with nice power already, more power potential ahead, speed, and less K’s than Snider.

This isn’t to say Snider doesn’t have a bright future, I just prefer the tools, position and SB potential that Fowler brings to the table.

Go Pirates!!!

by cool hand Charlie on Sep 7, 2025 8:57 PM EDT 0 recs

+1

by Pelferized on Sep 7, 2025 9:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

Eh...

Snider has a chance to be a pretty special hitter and he’s quite a bit younger. I appreciate defense, but look at the kind of players that usually win MVP’s - usually the guys that mash. I’d take Ortiz or Frank Thomas types over Torii Hunter or Carlos Beltran all day. Guys like Snider can create way more runs than Fowler can ever think about saving with his defense.

by slurve on Sep 7, 2025 10:49 PM EDT up 0 recs

wow

slurve, you’re the man. I respect your baseball knowledge. But I absolutley disagree with you on this one. Bentran and Hunter have had very very nice power years and there is a discernable difference between having a guy like that in CF and someone Nate McLouth. With these guys, you get great defense in CF on top of very good production in the line-up. Where with Ortiz and Frank Thomas you literally have guys who are the worst defensive 1B in the league and are good for at least 25+ errors a season if they played 160 games there.

Perhaps its just a difference in how we value baseball skills, but I don’t agree with you.

Go Pirates!!!

by cool hand Charlie on Sep 8, 2025 1:47 PM EDT up 0 recs

+1

Talkin' Sports

by BlackOps on Sep 8, 2025 2:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

that's the problem

Trying to quantify defense can be pretty frustrating, but just from my observations, I don’t see Hunter and Beltran’s combo of saving runs defensively + production as being as valuable as Thomas or Ortiz’s offensive production - runs cost defensively. I’d like to see some WARP comparisons but I don’t have time to dig through that stuff right now. It may be closer than how I stated it, but I stand by it. Kind of how a few weeks back I said I would take Mike Piazza over any catcher in the history of the game and it’s not even close despite how terrible he was defensively.

by slurve on Sep 8, 2025 5:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

yes. and i can't believe Fowler didn't pull in at least 40% of the vote.

by daveh33 on Sep 8, 2025 12:13 PM EDT up 0 recs

I figured that Snider was

going to comfortably win this poll but I went with Fowler. Broader tool base and while it doesn’t get brought up a lot Snider’s strikeouts are reasonably worrisome.

Don't believe the lies Bill!!!! look at the sparkly ERA!!! Sparkly, Sparkly!!! - McCovey Chronicles

by Trenchtown on Sep 8, 2025 12:15 AM EDT 0 recs

PLUS ONE

Fowler is a stud.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Sep 8, 2025 12:24 AM EDT up 0 recs

Yeah, but...

People keep over-looking his ability to draw walks. He’s only going to get better as he’s been young at every stop. Plenty of power hitters strikeout over 100 times a year, but the ones that offset that with a reasonable amount of walks are the ones that many times become the elite hitters - Snider fits that profile pretty well so far.

by slurve on Sep 8, 2025 9:26 AM EDT up 0 recs

Snider was not a walk machine this year

he was proficient for sure but an ISO DIS of .083 is merely good but not fantastic which is in line for his entire minor league career. There certainly is some adjustment that needs to be made because of age relative to league but striking out in 31% of at bats at any age brings up some questions. Hell, Adam Dunn never struck out in more then 24% of the time while he was in the minors. Fowler can hit, walk, field, run giving him the much larger tool base even if he doesn’t hit that well at the major league level and ends up like Marlon Byrd. If Snider doesn’t hit then Snider won’t play

Don't believe the lies Bill!!!! look at the sparkly ERA!!! Sparkly, Sparkly!!! - McCovey Chronicles

by Trenchtown on Sep 8, 2025 2:56 PM EDT up 0 recs

I realize that

he isn’t Mr. OBP, but he has been quite young for the levels he put up those numbers. I think there is enough there to say he has a very good chance of improving on his plate discipline - something I would normally not stick my neck out for. I think he’s got a much better chance to figure things out than say a Brandon Wood or Delmon Young.

by slurve on Sep 8, 2025 5:27 PM EDT up 0 recs

Snider

Obviously biased, but I took Snider. I think this is a question of power vs. glove, simple as that, and I don’t think Fowler will save enough runs with his glove to make up for the power difference.

by jayjay on Sep 8, 2025 12:54 AM EDT 0 recs

re

I put Snider because I think that he’s a surer bet to reach his offensive potential and is a surer bet to hit for power.

But that said, remember Snider was the 14th pick of the first round and Fowler was a steal in the 14th round! Fowler could go down as one of the bigger draft steals of the past ten years while Snider is doing what was expected

by ScottAZ on Sep 8, 2025 10:56 AM EDT 0 recs

Response

Fowler also got $1.4M to sign . . .he still projects to be way better than like every other 14th round pick, but obviously he didn’t get paid like one, either.

by mrkupe on Sep 8, 2025 1:01 PM EDT up 0 recs

yeah

I thought it was closer to $800,000, but I agree in point. He wasn’t the typical 14th round pick.

He was still a premium talent found that late in the draft, and a steal at that

by ScottAZ on Sep 8, 2025 1:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

Response

Okay, I looked it up, and we’re both off. $925,000 to stop him from going to Miami.

by mrkupe on Sep 8, 2025 1:11 PM EDT up 0 recs

Not really

Signing bonus predicts how well a player will do far more accurately than draft position does. Or to put it another way, guys who get overslot bonuses are expected to perform like they were drafted at their slot. So Fowler would have been expected to succeed like a pick in the mid-30s: no sure thing, but hardly a “talent steal”.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 8, 2025 11:46 PM EDT up 0 recs

+1

Lots of guys fall in the draft due to teams believing they won’t have a chance to sign them.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Sep 9, 2025 12:09 AM EDT up 0 recs

re

I disagree. Any time you get a premium talent in the 14th round its a steal.

Plus Fowler was hardly a sure thing coming out of high school. Every year there are 5-10 toolsie players bought out of football/basketball schollies and very few pan out. So I stand by my first statement in that Snider was closer to being a sure thing and that Fowler was in fact a steal in he was available still so late in the draft

by ScottAZ on Sep 9, 2025 10:18 AM EDT up 0 recs

To the people who are not seemingly worried about Snider's Ks

Look at his minor league K rate, then look at the minor league K rate of the guys in the bigs who regularly strike out a ton. I am more than a bit uneasy about how much of Snider’s performance will translate to the bigs since he has demonstrated that he has a very serious strikeout issue. Other than Ryan Howard, and that doesn’t seem to have lasted too too long, I can’t think of many hitters with comparable minor league K rates who went on to be elite offensive producers. Since offense seems to be the only thing he brings to the table. So, having said all that, I easily choose Fowler.

by njasdjdh on Sep 8, 2025 11:36 AM EDT 0 recs

Howard

that ave has dropped, but as long as he keeps hitting 45+ bombs and drawing 100 walks he is still very valuable

by ScottAZ on Sep 8, 2025 11:56 AM EDT up 0 recs

Walks

Howard isn’t gong to reach that amount this year. This year he is only on pace for 81 walks which is significantly lower then the 107.5 he averaged over the last 2 seasons. I guess pitchers aren’t as intimidated by him as in years past. However, with his power production he is still an asset to almost any club.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Sep 8, 2025 12:10 PM EDT up 0 recs

Ryan Howard has a slugging heavy 111 OPS+, with terrible defense at 1B, that is not very valuable.

by njasdjdh on Sep 8, 2025 1:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

defense

his defense wasn’t bad until this year. Look at his RF or ZR; they weren’t bad until this year.

I’m just wondering what has happened to his swing. Pitches he used to take the opposite field he’s trying to pull and whiffing or hitting into the shift. I have no idea what he has strayed from what made him the top slugger in the game in 05/06

by ScottAZ on Sep 9, 2025 10:22 AM EDT up 0 recs

Adjusted

Maybe he was doing that earlier in the year (which would help explain the terrible start), but in the 3-4 games I’ve seen recently - he’s been more than happy to hit to left and left-center.

by slurve on Sep 9, 2025 10:28 AM EDT up 0 recs

ORRR

His on-contact numbers were better than Babe Ruth and that was just not bound to last.

by njasdjdh on Sep 9, 2025 11:18 AM EDT up 0 recs

Response

Snider does strike out a lot . . .but it’s interesting to consider that the K numbers have remained pretty consistent as he’s moved up to higher levels. Even better, his production hasn’t suffered for them . . .he’s hit the ball very well in places that few 20 year olds could hold their own.

You’d probably have to be somebody who watches a LOT of Travis Snider to make any strong conclusions. But if there are discernible holes in that swing of his, some pretty good pitchers have tried to find them without much success.

by mrkupe on Sep 8, 2025 1:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

K's

I don’t think it’s a matter of not being worried, but taking it in context. He’s 20 years old, what kind of competition was he facing 2 years ago? He needs time to adjust. Does that mean he’ll turn into a low-K hitter? No. His K rate for his career is 25. He’s had trouble adjusting to new levels (i.e. first month in AA, 46 K rate) which should be expected. So the question is, can he get it down. I don’t think he’ll ever be a huge average hitter or anything, but he’s still got so much time to learn and so few pa’s against legitimate “pitchers”. I would suspect that if he was facing a level of competition normal for a player his age, his K rate would be a little more reasonable.

by jayjay on Sep 8, 2025 1:25 PM EDT up 0 recs

re

is it me, or does he not seem to use the whole field like he did 05/06. I remember something like 40% of his homers going oppo, now they even play the Ted Williams shift on him.

I wonder what the reasoning is: why did he go away from using the whole field?

by ScottAZ on Sep 8, 2025 1:06 PM EDT 0 recs

BOTH!

I’m loving this poll because I happen to have both of them on my SOM team :-)

I picked Fowler for the many reasons already stated above, but honestly, I don’t know how you can go wrong here.

My comps for the two:

Fowler=Bernie Williams in his prime

Snider=Lance Berkman (a strictly LH hitting Berkman, obviously)

by dkny22 on Sep 8, 2025 2:06 PM EDT 0 recs

Tough one....

Snider is two years younger, but Fowler has the awesome tools.
Snider is a safe pick, he’s looks like he’s already ready to hit in MLB.
But I still think Fowler will probably be the better player.

I just voted Fowler, but could go either way. Ultimately though, I think Fowler hits for a bit better average, eventually develops almost similar power, and has the better all around game.

by acerimusdux on Sep 8, 2025 3:02 PM EDT 0 recs

Hmmmm....

I’m going with Snider. Better chance to reach his ceiling, and his ceiling is damned impressive.
Fowler had an amazing year, but given a freakishly high BABIP, I’m not sure what to make of it. I think the Bernie Williams comp someone put down above is spot on, and if he achieves that, he’ll be an extremely valuable player. It’s just harder to get a handle on a guy who put up the 2007 and 2008 that Fowler has.

Snider seems to be a test for people - do you value ARL more than K rate, or vice versa? Personally, I’m not terribly worried - YET - about the K rate. Comps to Ryan Howard are way off base, given that Howard was college hitter who was 24 in AA when he put up that K rate. You’ve got to compare Snider to other players that have advanced this quickly, and that universe just isn’t very large.
To me, it comes down to this: how would Snider’s K rate (and his raw stats!) look if he played in AA two years from now? Add in Fowler’s positional advantage, and you’ve got a decent framework to evaluate the two. To me, having Snider face the Texas League in 2010 would be totally unfair to league hurlers.

by marc w on Sep 8, 2025 5:53 PM EDT 0 recs

Perfect timing Mr. Callis....

This is a snipet from today’s Ask BA:

“Though he does strike out, Snider should hit for average and power while batting in the middle of Toronto’s lineup for years. I’d rank him behind Upton and Bruce but ahead of the other three [Cameron Maybin, Colby Rasmus and Andrew McCutchen] outfielders in terms of the long-term impact he’ll have in the majors.”

That’s some pretty damn high praise. Fowler wasn’t even in the discussion. Here’s a link to the complete article:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/ask-ba/2008/266833.html

by slurve on Sep 8, 2025 8:17 PM EDT 0 recs

Well......

Fowler wasn’t in the discussion because the reader specifically asked how he would rank against Upton, Bruce, Maybin, Rasmus, and McCutchen. Personally I would prefer Snider but I am not certain that this answer is at all relevant to Fowler. If the reader included Fowler in the list then I would agree with you.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Sep 8, 2025 8:33 PM EDT up 0 recs