Bonehead Player Development Decision Discussion
With the AQA thread complete, it is time to move forward. We will have a guest post about the Orioles here tomorrow, and will return to normal coverage on Thursday. In the meantime, here is a good discussion topic that was suggested in the AQA.
What is/was the stupidest, most boneheaded player development decision made by a major league team this year? Trades don't count, so no bringing up Dan Hudson for Edwin Jackson. Draft choices don't count either, so no bringing up Karsten Whitson or Dylan Covey.
Use this thread to bring up some bad decisions and discuss them. Once we have a good list, I will make a poll and we can have some fun with it.
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The Mariners jerking Brandon Morrow around
Switching from rotation to bullpen, seemingly constantly.
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by Zach Sanders on Aug 24, 2025 7:01 PM EDT reply actions
This year
Says the question.
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by The Big Hurt on Aug 24, 2025 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I've heard this a few times...
and he complained about it… but I’m 99% sure he ASKED to go back to the pen.
IIRC - Old management moved him to relief, Jack Z took over and he went back to starting and then he asked to go to the pen. Perhaps one of the M’s fans around here will remember this better.
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by alskor on Aug 25, 2025 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
He did ask to go back to the pen when it became clear he wasn't going to break camp as a starter.
However, that doesn’t exonerate Jack Z and company. It’s clear that a player is going to want to stay on the big league club. You have to make the hard decision and do what is best for the player and the team. He should have been sent down to AAA to become a starter. I still place most of the blame on Bavasi because he started the whole mishandling until it got to the point where it was much harder to correct, but Jack Z is still at fault.
The only thing that bothers me is when Morrow complains about it and conveniently forgets to mention his role in it.
by Fuckmikereilly on Aug 25, 2025 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
Morrow’s handling was atrocious and puzzling, not to mention trading him for a relief pitcher who stopped throwing his best pitch.
by montenegro on Aug 24, 2025 7:02 PM EDT reply actions
Reply fail?
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by Whiteyballer on Aug 24, 2025 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
We never would have figured out what he was talking about without your post, or mine, for that matter…Thanks.
by killa on Aug 24, 2025 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I might be missing something, but whats with the sarcasm and snark?
Its getting to be a little too much to bare.
by russak on Aug 24, 2025 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Det. Tigers calling up LHP Andy Oliver
to make some MLB starts that early
I called on the exact pitch - Joe Mauer's first career Home-Run at Target Field !!!
Why Oh Why did the D'Backs select A.J. Pollock over Mike Trout?
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 24, 2025 7:04 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah, this one was pretty bad.
I’d also say that Porcello’s handling this year was pretty awful.
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by David Tokarz on Aug 24, 2025 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
You could just make this the Tigers calling up any young player that wasn’t ready. Oliver this year, Porcello last year, Maybin and Miller before them. Why are the Tigers in such a rush to ruin these young guys?
by polodude017 on Aug 25, 2025 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Porcello
I can’t really blame them for calling up Porcello last year. He had a pretty impressive season.
by King Billy Royal on Aug 25, 2025 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
You most certainly can...
I know the wins and ERA looks tidy at 14 and 3.96 respectively for a 20 year old. But the underlying stats told a much different story. His strikeout rate was terrible, especially for a guy who was supposed to throw so hard. His walks, while not awful, were pretty bad when taking into account his low strikeout toal. He also had a bad H/IP ratio. And for a guy who was supposed to get a ton of groundballs, he gave up a lot of home runs (23 in 170 innings). He had not developed any of his offspeed stuff. That is a serious gaph in player management. They would be well served to leave him in the minors for a year. That may ruin his confience, but working on his control and offspeed stuff in the minors would be better for him than getting shelled in the majors.
by polodude017 on Aug 25, 2025 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Wasn't his FIP decent?
His FIP was 4.77 and his xFIP was 4.32. In hindsight it was the wrong move, but it worked out very well for them last year and people marveled at his poise on the mound.
by King Billy Royal on Aug 25, 2025 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
They didn’t win anything last year and now their supposed top pitching prospect looks like he is scarred for life, so I would say it was a major mistake. I see what you are saying, he did ok last year, but I’m sure their plan for Porcello wasn’t for him to pitch one decent season and then fall off the map. They were hyping him as the next big thing.
by polodude017 on Aug 25, 2025 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Did Porcello get a major league contract? I know Turner received one so his clock is running in the minors. In that scenario, seems like the team would push their prospects faster to maximize use on the major league squad rather than accumulating service time in the minors. The whole reason the Tigers are paying above slot is so that they get cheap talent in Detroit. If they let them slowly work their way up the farm system, they will be arbitration eligible when they arrive. As long as Turner pitches ok, I predict that Turner pitches for the Tigers at some point next season and is on the team for good the following season. This is not the best scenario but signing Turner required a mlb contract and big dollars and the Tigers need to get a return.
by mikegostate on Aug 25, 2025 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Porcello
Boras demanded a major league contract and there were those of us at the time who pointed out it was an absolutely boneheaded thing to do and would likely lead to ruining him. His own greed did him in.
by BlueEyes_Austin on Aug 25, 2025 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that the Boras demand is potentially short-sighted. However, the Tigers knew that would be the case and drafted him anyway. Meaning, the Tigers thought a rushed Porcello was better than the other options at that spot.
by mikegostate on Aug 25, 2025 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
what?
You know that Porcello spent 1 year in the minors . . .the Tigers could have kept him in the minors for TWO MORE YEARS if they had wanted to. His “greed” did nothing.
by mrkupe on Aug 26, 2025 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Not how major league contracts work
Mike,
Just as an FYI, getting a major league contract does not mean that a guy is actually accruing big league service time in the majors. It does, however, mean that a guy is on the 40 man roster from the start of his contract (in the case of Turner, the contract was for this season) and must be optioned out to the minors. As a result, the team really is guaranteeing a player that he will be in the majors after three minor league seasons when they give a major league contract. Once the player has arrived in the majors, his service contract starts at 0 just like everyone else and his free agency doesn’t kick in until six years out.
by realitypolice on Aug 25, 2025 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
What happens after 3 years in the minors and the team doesn’t want them in the majors? Does this year they are drafted counted as the first year, even if they sign late and never actually play in a game that year? Regardless, three years is still pretty fast for a high school pitcher
Thanks for the help.
by mikegostate on Aug 25, 2025 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Just like any other player out of options
Once a player has exhausted his three option years, he must be exposed and clear waivers before being assigned to the minors. So, like I said, giving the big league contract is essentially guaranteeing that a guy will only spend three years in the minors (and yes, most of this year’s August 16 signees have a 2011 contract in hand). And yes, that’s pretty fast for most high school draftees, which is why so few HS players get them. On the flip side, sometimes people get worked up about them when it’s really
by realitypolice on Aug 25, 2025 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
damn it!
… not a big deal. The fact that Pedro Alvarez got a big league deal when he was selected was pretty irrelevant since he was absolutely going to be in the big leagues within two years. (I mean, it takes a way a little org flexibility if he were to absolutely suck next year, but if they seriously need to think about getting him to the minors in 2012, him having gotten a big league contract will be the LEAST of their problems!)
by realitypolice on Aug 25, 2025 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
No, its a HUGE deal
See: Young, Delmon.
Needs moar dingerz.
by Blicks on Aug 25, 2025 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Alvarez got a minor league contract
He’s not going back to the minors in 2012
s.zielinski
by steve_z on Aug 28, 2025 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
No, he got an MLB deal
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by Jeff Reese on Aug 28, 2025 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Oops, meant to include this:
- signed re-worked Major League contract 9/24/08, with union agreeing to drop grievance & MLB agreeing to notify union of any deadline extensions in the future
- $6M signing bonus paid over 4 years
- 09:$0.4M, 10:$0.5M, 11:$0.55M, 12:$0.7M, 13:$0.7M club option, 14:$0.7M club option
- annual salary of $88,750 in minor leagues
- Alvarez may void 2013 option if otherwise eligible for arbitration
- if Alvarez is not in the majors by 2013, club may exercise options for split contracts for 2013 and 2014 at $0.7M annually ($0.5M in minors)
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by Jeff Reese on Aug 28, 2025 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
there's a rather massive exception to that
A player may be eligible for a fourth option year if he has been optioned in three seasons but does not yet have five full seasons of professional experience. A full season is defined as being on an active pro roster for at least 90 days in a season. (If a player is put on the disabled list after earning 60 or more days of service in a single season, his time on the DL is counted.) The 90-day requirement means short-season leagues (New-York Penn, Northwest, Pioneer, Appalachian, Gulf Coast, Arizona Rookie, Dominican and Venezuelan Summer Leagues) do not count as full seasons for the purposes of determining eligibility for a fourth option.
http://www.bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=655&Itemid=75
by larry on Aug 25, 2025 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Scarred for life?
He has been pretty decent since he was recalled so I doubt he was scarred for life. I still think he will be a very good pitcher for a very long time.
by King Billy Royal on Aug 25, 2025 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
probably will
but still doesn’t lenghten his career any
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by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 25, 2025 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
The Pirates not protecting Jose Bautista in 2003
He had loads of potential (as he’s showing this year), and up until an injury plagued 2003, had been hitting very well in the low minors. Then he spent a year getting jerked around the MLB bench-warming circuit, essentially wasting a year of development. An underrated bonehead Dave Littlefield move, IMHO.
by jseiner on Aug 24, 2025 7:07 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah, this and the Red Sox selling Babe Ruth to the Yankees. Both bad decisions made this year.
by Humbled Fan on Aug 24, 2025 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
That w
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by Kerm on Aug 25, 2025 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
woops...That was pretty Snarky...Love it Rec'd
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by Kerm on Aug 25, 2025 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
The Pirates, Rays, Orioles and Royals all gave up on Bautista at one point. Why? Because until this fluky season he’s just never been good at baseball. His previous career high wOBA was .331. For a guy who plays primarily 3B and OF and is a bad defender at both spots, that’s not at all acceptable. He was barely useful as a utility guy.
Now, I will say he had promise in the minor leagues and being forced to play in the Majors due to the Rule 5 draft well before he was ready probably hurt his development. Maybe had that not happened he’d be the 3 true outcome beast he is today for his whole career. No way of knowing, though.
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by Nate Rose on Aug 24, 2025 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
He was a solid hitter who played multiple positions
He was dealt because he wasn’t happy about being benched for Andy LaRoche (who has performed significantly worse offensively), and Neal does not like players who make waves. It was a bad trade at the time.
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by Jeff Reese on Aug 24, 2025 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
He was a below-average hitter...
…at all the positions he could play. And a below-average fielder at all of them as well. A right-handed Rob Mackowiak, more or less.
It’s nice that he’s been able to make changes to his swing and break through this year, but trading him wasn’t some kind of bone-headed decision.
by Vlad on Aug 25, 2025 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
If he does...
…then that’s new post-trade as well. He was below-average in Pittsburgh.
by Vlad on Aug 25, 2025 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Never said
trading him was a bad idea. I said not protecting him back in 2003 was. He was the team’s 7th rated prospect heading into 2003 according to Baseball America, who had tons of good things to say about his bat speed, and his BB numbers in the low minors spoke plenty to his strong plate discipline.
My point is, if the Pirates had protected him and allowed him to develop in the minors, he could have developed into more than an MLB bench guy sooner than what actually transpired.
by jseiner on Aug 25, 2025 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
His wRC+ while in Pittsburgh:
2006: 98
2007: 101
2008: 89
He was a league average hitter, and he was replaced by (Andy LaRoche):
2008: 40
2009: 97
2010: 61
He was traded for (Robinzon Diaz):
2008: 77
2009: 74
The money he was going to get in arbitration was used on (Ramon Vazquez):
2009: 70
It most certainly was a mistake, and one that was obvious at the time it went down.
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by Jeff Reese on Aug 25, 2025 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Nicely done there jar75.
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by gatling on Aug 25, 2025 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha
I don’t think those numbers even convey how bad the move was… that there was little reason to expect any of those guys to outperform the old swing Bautista. Just giving away value.
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by alskor on Aug 25, 2025 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
The Giants re-signing Bengie Molina
And then not calling up Buster Posey until late May and then finally trading Molina away.
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by 49er16 on Aug 24, 2025 7:16 PM EDT reply actions
How is that boneheaded
By keeping Posey down they bought an extra year of team control and then traded Molina away to open up the spot for him.
by bigsteve on Aug 24, 2025 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Molina did nothing for them
They could have used Posey right away, instead of trotting out Molina’s rotting corpse day after day.
"Dodger fans aren’t happy when foul balls get into their section, because it interferes with their playing with the beachball"- Mike Krukow
by 49er16 on Aug 24, 2025 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Molina got them Main
Also, Posey may have benefited from time in the minors to work on his defense.
by King Billy Royal on Aug 24, 2025 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
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by Kerm on Aug 25, 2025 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I'm not getting this as a bad move.
If they miss the playoffs… yeah, I guess they deserve a little criticism. They still got extra seasoning for and extra control years of Posey. I want to say this was probably a good move, though it had its drawbacks (both financially and in terms of wins). I certainly wouldn’t list it among the most boneheaded moves.
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by alskor on Aug 25, 2025 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Extra year of cheap team control; they still would have had him for six, he just would have had four years of arbitration had he qualified as a super-two.
by limozeen on Aug 25, 2025 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Leaving him down gave them almost 7 years of control
They have the next 6 full seasons after this. Yes they run into the possibility hes a Super 2 and gets arbitration 4 of those years but thats the payoff to guarantee yourself control over the kid.
As a Ranger fan I will have to watch in another 4 years Elvis Andrus most likely walk away in FA because we decided to start him in the majors on Opening Day as a 20 year old. Instead of waiting a few weeks, in a season we weren’t seriously contending anyway, and then bringing him up and guaranteeing ourselves a 7th year of control.
by bigsteve on Aug 25, 2025 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm of 2 minds on this
I mean Molina was atrocious for those 2 months and moving Huff to RF was bad for defense…that said Michael Main is a good young pitcher and Chris Ray has been solid out of the pen and they couldn’t trade Molina until May because the Rangers thought that Salty/Teagarden/Ramirez might actually be workable
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by Gobroks on Aug 25, 2025 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Will Smith
Not sure this qualifies as the most horrible bonehead move, because F’ing up Will Smith’s development isn’t the worst thing in the world. But this year he was performing adequately, but not really all that well as a 20 year old in high A ball for 37.2 innings. Then they moved him to AAA which I guessed was for a spot start, but he stayed there for 53 innings where he was hit hard (5.60 ERA, 1.60 WHIP in AAA - rate numbers weren’t as bad). Then they moved him down to AA for 18.2 innings, where he was pummeled horribly on every level. Finally, and thankfully, he was traded to the Royals who put him back in A+ ball where he belongs, and where other than giving up a bit too many HRs, he’s been pretty decent.
by auclairkeithbc on Aug 24, 2025 7:20 PM EDT reply actions
The Angels
is where he started the year in A+, went to AAA then to AA ball. He’s on the Royals now.
by auclairkeithbc on Aug 24, 2025 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Smith
decent game today…8 IP, 1 H (single), 12 K, 0 BB. no credit to the Angels though.
by auclairkeithbc on Aug 24, 2025 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Smith wasn't even the pitcher the Angels screwed up the most.
That’d be Trevor Reckling, who had no business starting in AAA.
by ThomasG on Aug 24, 2025 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why
Did they do this to Reckling and Smith, anyone have any insight?
by killa on Aug 24, 2025 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
No clue
But Reckling was A LOT more ready for AAA than Will Smith. Neither were ready though, and Reckling was the better prospect, so maybe that does make it a bigger screw job.
by auclairkeithbc on Aug 24, 2025 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
wow, they jumped a 20 year old to AAA and left him there?
thats insane on a couple levels. you shouldn’t be that desperate for pitching in the minor leagues, sign some old guys or convert a reliever whose stalled out in your system. thats some pretty strange prospect managment right there.
by pack_fan on Aug 25, 2025 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions
i agree
I was going to mention the Angles on Will but I’m glad I read the post first.
Seriously though, what were they doing? You have a solid guy who looks like he needs the time and then stayed in AAA… horrific move. have they done this to anyone else other than Reckling in recent memory?
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by 306008 on Aug 25, 2025 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably something the Mets did
Fernando Martinez, Ruben Tejada, and Jenrry Mejia should never have seen ML action this year.
by OremLK on Aug 24, 2025 7:30 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
+1
Or they should be seeing time now that the Mets are out of it. The Fernando Martinez escapades have been particularly silly.
I think the Tigers handled Scott Sizemore pretty poorly.
by Burlin White on Aug 24, 2025 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I think F-Mart was a mistake but before this year. Mejia doesn't seem like a mistake to me because nobody bad mouths the Rangers for Feliz.
by Humbled Fan on Aug 24, 2025 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
F-Mart
He really wasn’t with the big league club that long, so I don’t think it was a big problem.
by auclairkeithbc on Aug 24, 2025 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Feliz/Mejia
Feliz had a much better fast ball and was ahead of Mejia in every other category as well as some upper level experience. He was also called up during a playoff chase. I don’t like the way Feliz was handled, but the Mejia situation is just mindblowinh
by mattp31 on Aug 24, 2025 8:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Mejia
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by doublestix on Aug 24, 2025 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
This was the name that popped into my head when I first read the question.
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by Savoy on Aug 24, 2025 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
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by Gobroks on Aug 25, 2025 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah Mejia is the worst example
But none of them were ready for the majors, in my opinion… all three should have seen significantly more playing time at AAA and been given the chance to prove they could handle that level before making the jump.
by OremLK on Aug 25, 2025 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
Due to lousy decision making, the highest ceiling arm in the system since Kazmir has had a jerked around season, and has not developed any of his secondary pitches or command. So, essentially, he wasted his 2010 season completely. Thanks, Mets management!
by robertgold on Aug 25, 2025 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
yup
Terrible to cost the kid almost a year, I don’t mind the experience but it was just real short-sighted by a GM/Manager trying to save their asses.
by St.Steve on Aug 25, 2025 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Tejada
I cannot understand what the blank the Mets think is the benefit of this 20-year-old going 0-fer, 0-fer, 0-fer night after night after night (OK, he doubled last Wednesday) — or doesn’t his bat / psyche matter?
by Caballero Guapo on Aug 24, 2025 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Rick Porcello
everything about Porcello’s handling makes me scratch my head.
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by fourfingerwoo on Aug 24, 2025 7:43 PM EDT reply actions
Agreed
Though the decision to rush him to the majors when he wasn’t even dominating A-ball was technically a 2009 decision.
The Coors Effect
by Tom (RFTN) on Aug 24, 2025 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
but couldn't of been corrected in 2010 but was
repeated
"The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three run homers."
by fourfingerwoo on Aug 24, 2025 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Todd Van Poppel
Anything about how he was handled.
by BigJ7489 on Aug 24, 2025 7:46 PM EDT reply actions
Andrew Cashner
Was dominating in AAA and looked like a legitimate top of the rotation prospect, only for the Cubs to call him up, throw him into relief, and keep him there on a team with no hope playoff contention. He won’t surpass the 100 IP he pitched last year in the minors plus the additional IP he had in the AFL.
If the Cubs want to keep him in the bullpen, it seems like a waste if he could be a TOR prospect. But if they want to move him back to the rotation, they’re going to have to monitor his innings really closely next season.
by Outshined_One on Aug 24, 2025 7:48 PM EDT reply actions
this is right up there with Mejia
no doubt, because they have compounded this terrible move by leaving him in the pen…at least the Mets course corrected.
by St.Steve on Aug 25, 2025 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
You want to find bad decisions, you look for bad performances right?
I mean, nobody is going to call it a mistake if someone is promoted soon and kills it, right? Like Heyward in Atlanta, even with certain struggles, he’s in the right place.
What about Posey in San Francisco? That’s not bad player development decisions, obviously Posey is killing it. If the Giants miss the playoffs, then its just bad personnel decisions. It hurt the team, not Buster.
How about the Kansas City Royals? You give up on Alex Gordon at 3rd base after 9 games this year. Two years removed from a 109 OPS+ season at age 24. Stop jerking this kid around.
On a more prospect-oriented, and maybe off-the-wall note - Stephen Strasburg should have never pitched in the minors. It was obviously never necessary. There’s no reason to believe that he would have gotten hurt and more or less by pitching in the majors. But at least you would have the Rookie of the Year, sold more tickets, and won a couple more games.
by Humbled Fan on Aug 24, 2025 7:48 PM EDT reply actions
Right
I doubt anyone is calling it a mistake that the Reds promoted Mike Leake directly to the majors, though that could hurt his long-term development.
The Coors Effect
by Tom (RFTN) on Aug 24, 2025 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Looking at the list of players that skipped the minors - it doesn't look like a list much different than any other of good prospects.
Some become Hall of Famers (Sandy Koufax, Bob Feller, Harmon Killebrew) some become good players (Jim Abbott, {Pete Incaviglia) some become nobodies.
by Humbled Fan on Aug 24, 2025 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Killebrew is an unfair example
He was a bonus boy - he had to be put into the majors immediately.
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by OldProspects on Aug 24, 2025 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
It took Koufax
a really long time to put it together…
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by Dttl89 on Aug 24, 2025 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I am
he’s not that great. Shouldn’t have been rushed. The underlying stats are NOT good. His numbers should look much worse than they do.
by polodude017 on Aug 25, 2025 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Disagree on Strasburg
It was good for him to hit those two levels in the minors. I have to say I didn’t expect him to tear through those two levels as easily as he did, let alone the majors. It was good for him to get his feet wet and get some confience, not to mention hold his arbitration clock back.
by polodude017 on Aug 25, 2025 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Strasburg needed to learn what it took to be a professional player.
That kind of learning should never happen in the MLB…
by Berndaddy on Aug 25, 2025 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Mejia
The kid wasn’t really ready and the Mets called him up for a low leverage role knowing that they weren’t likely built to contend this year. A total lost year for a kid that needed it.
Andrew Cashner was a mistake, and so was testing Jay Jackson in relief.
Not a big fan of the way the Reds are handling Aroldis Chapman
Although he’s not a true prospect, the Rangers up and down with Chris Davis
Marlins calling up Sanabia was a bit stupid as well
by mattp31 on Aug 24, 2025 8:12 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Mejia and Cashner
Both should have been left in the minors the entire year to develop as starters. Had the Cubs not transitioned Cash to a reliever, he would have had another 2 months to hone his starts in AAA and be up now to take a rotation spot for the last 6 weeks and maybe contend for a #4, #5 spot next season. Mejia’s got good stuff, but he clearly should have been streched out this year in the minors. Both teams lost a development year in the same way, taking a kid who had possible #2 starter future and sticking them in the pen to try and win this year.
by Ramakis34 on Aug 24, 2025 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
disagree on chapman
I wouldn’t have converted him to relief as soon as they did, but I think thats a small thing to worry about. Not only does it allow them to build his innings slowly, but he’s also had success and has shown much better control since being put in the pen. It gives the kid some confidence, AND it gives him the potential to help the team this year. Last I checked, thats whats important. You use the pieces you have to help your team win.
He’ll be back starting next season. Plus he’ll have lived in the states for a year and should have a much better idea of what to do to make himself better.
by pack_fan on Aug 25, 2025 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions
This didn't start this year, but...
Kila Ka’aihue.
And this isn’t in the minor leagues, but the Pirates’ failure to find regular AB’s for Lastings Milledge and Jeff Clement (in favor of Ryan Doumit and Garrett Jones) is kinda depressing.
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
by wg1of5 on Aug 24, 2025 8:15 PM EDT reply actions
yes, it did start this year w/ Kila
having Mike Jacobs on the roster was bad ML decision, but Kila did himself absolutely no favors by putting up a .825 OPS in the PCL.
R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
by doublestix on Aug 24, 2025 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeff Clement is terrible.
If anything, they’ve given him too many ABs this year.
by Vlad on Aug 25, 2025 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
It should have been Starlin Castro
Cubs rush a guy with 220 AB above A-ball to the majors, in a season where they were going nowhere. He had shown progress but never been exceptional before having a .990 OPS in AA before his call-up this year. And yet he’s been good…
by footballstu on Aug 24, 2025 8:19 PM EDT reply actions
Castro
They called him up because he had a great AFL, a great spring training, and was killing the ball in the minors. Although as a Cubs fan, who has been without a legit shortstop since Shawon Dunston (long live the Shawn-O=Meter), I did worry about what would happen if he hit .150 after a month.
by Ramakis34 on Aug 24, 2025 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Hard to call it
rushing when he’s contending for an NL batting title. I think that term only applies when it become obvious the player wasn’t ready. Castro obviously belongs.
by slurve on Aug 25, 2025 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Brett Wallace
To me, switching Wallace from 3rd base to 1st base was a huge mistake - it instantly slashed his value, in my opinion. He never had the profile of being a star at 1B, so to me, the best course of action would have been leaving him at third base, where as long as his defense was relatively average, his offensive numbers would likely make him a very good player.
by doron on Aug 24, 2025 8:36 PM EDT reply actions
I don't think anyone thought his defense there was anything close to average
by nixa37 on Aug 24, 2025 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Indeed
Wallace was always an overrated prospect.
http://bullpenbanter.com/
by Jeff Reese on Aug 24, 2025 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
After watching him
I can see why they thought he could play third base now. It seems bizarre looking at his body type, but he moves really well for his size, has good instincts and positioning, and a very good arm. He would never be a plus defender but I think he could play the position.
by OremLK on Aug 24, 2025 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Who is they? Scouts from when he was in college?
I don’t think he’d be getting traded as much as he is if people legitimately thought he could play 3B. I think it says something when the teams that see you the most don’t think you can pull it off. Its not like the Blue Jays were moving him to 1B because he was blocked at 3B. Its not like the A’s were letting him go because they didn’t need a 3B. It doesn’t seem like any team that’s had him really believes he can play the position.
by nixa37 on Aug 24, 2025 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Originally it was thought that he would stay at third base
by OremLK on Aug 24, 2025 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, then people got a better look at him and changed their minds
Like everyone who had him. The A’s, who of all teams would seem the most likely to play a bad bodied player at a position he could actually handle didn’t seem to think he could pull it off. Toronto traded for him without even thinking he could play 3B. I just think we’re seeing a trend here. The professionals who get paid to do this for a living seemingly don’t think he can play the position at all. No disrespect, but I’ll take that over your scouting report.
by nixa37 on Aug 24, 2025 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
What was the actual chain of events at Oakland?
I see that he played only five games at first base there, and 35 at third base. Do you have a link about them permanently moving him to first base? I didn’t know they had done that.
The only organization in which he played more games at first base/DH than third base was with Toronto. And different organizations have different opinions on a player’s fielding abilities.
In any case, it’s not like I’m going to change my opinion of what I’ve seen of him, unless his level of play in the field drops off. So we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, nixa.
It’s not like it matters, anyway. As long as Chris Johnson keeps hitting and there are no better corner infield prospects in the immediate pipeline, there’s no room at third base for him on the Astros. So effectively he is a first baseman. But I think he’s a good one in terms of his defense.
by OremLK on Aug 25, 2025 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn't say the A's moved him off 3B
I said they likely wouldn’t have been anywhere near as willing to move him if they believed he could play 3B. They have a huge hole there and they moved him for another OF.
by nixa37 on Aug 25, 2025 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
It's more that they traded him in the offseason because they realized he was a future 1B
And they have a couple of those already.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 25, 2025 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
What you're taking
is as much your personal projections as anything else. You know what Toronto, A’s and “the professionals who get paid to do this for a living” concluded?
by JetSam on Aug 25, 2025 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Pretty sure
that Toronto specifically stated Wallace would be a 1B only when they traded for him.
http://bullpenbanter.com
by gatling on Aug 25, 2025 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
If teams that had him thought he could play 3B he wouldn't keep getting moved
If the A’s thought he could play 3B there is almost no way they deal him straight up for Taylor. If the Jays thought he could play 3B they’d probably be looking to keep him to replace Encarnacion. I think the reason teams keep trading him is no thinks as highly of him as some people here do. He was incredibly overrated for awhile. I’ve also yet to hear a single scout of late say they think he can play 3B. The only people I see saying it are people on here and a few scouts from when he first came out of school. Everything else since them seems to have been ugly. What reason is there to think he can play 3B?
by nixa37 on Aug 25, 2025 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Well said
As a Toronto fan, I can assure you that if Wallace could play 3b the Jays would have given him a chance. Nobody likes Encarnacion at 3B long term and it isn’t like we have a kid in the minors ready to step in at the hot corner.
by King Billy Royal on Aug 25, 2025 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Emaus?
Shouldn’t he be ready some time next year? Or is he going to be more of a utility type for the Jays?
http://bullpenbanter.com
by gatling on Aug 25, 2025 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
More of a UTL guy
He is not the long term answer.
by King Billy Royal on Aug 25, 2025 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I've seen him play
And I think he has enough defensive chops to do it. It’s as simple as that.
We question MLB organizations all the time on this site, how is this any different? In fact this entire thread is about questioning MLB organizations and their player development moves.
by OremLK on Aug 25, 2025 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Because we're talking about multiple organizations
Its not just one organization being stubborn. Its 2-3 organizations (including one that seems really unlikely to fall into the bad body trap) that seemingly didn’t think he could do it along with scouts consistently saying he can’t.
I understand what this thread is about, but I don’t think you can rip Toronto for moving Wallace to 1B (as the poster I was responding to did) because no one seems to think he can play anything else.
by nixa37 on Aug 25, 2025 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
But that's not true
As far as I know Toronto is the only one which actually moved him to first as his primary position. Playing a few games at first base with Oakland doesn’t mean they were moving him there.
by OremLK on Aug 25, 2025 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Other than Houston of course
And Houston already has a third baseman.
by OremLK on Aug 25, 2025 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
Chris Johnson’s nice year notwithstanding, he’s not enough of a presence to move Wallace to 1B if the Astros believed Wallace is a 3B in the long run. With Oakland, I know they never came out and specifically said they viewed him as a 1B but their moves seem to indicate they didn’t view him as a 3B. Trading him for an OF when 3B was a gaping hole on the team, trading for a starting 3B in Kouzmanoff that has a few years of team control left, drafting three potential 3B in the early rounds of the draft and signing the top IFA 3B on the market indicate the A’s still view 3B as a problem area long term. If they had faith in Wallace as a 3B, I think he’d still be in the organization.
http://bullpenbanter.com
by gatling on Aug 25, 2025 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
I think its pretty clear the A’s didn’t think he could play 3B.
by nixa37 on Aug 25, 2025 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Except they traded him essentially because they realized he couldn't play third in the Majors
So they didn’t move him to first, but they did move him out of the organization.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 25, 2025 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
In post draft stuff
I remember scouts quoted calling him “the Walrus” and more than once I recall hearing he had “fall down range.”
The only reason it was thought he would stay at 3B is because he wasn’t moving that Pujols guy off 1B. People actually questioned that draft pick a ton because no one really though 3B was realistic.
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twitter: @alskor
by alskor on Aug 25, 2025 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Wallace
as a ASU ticket holder I watched Wallace extensively at 3b. In college, yes, he could handle 3b very well. Lets put it this way: he looked no worse at 3b than Pedro Alvarez did when we played against Vandy.
This was a few years ago now, so obviously this is subject to change. I did hear however, that he’s lost weight since college, dropping from 240 to 225ish
by ScottAZ on Aug 25, 2025 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks.
In any case I’m not saying I think Wallace would be a good third baseman, or even an average one (like the guy above). But, I do think he could play the position and can see the argument that he’d be good enough there to provide more defensive value than at first base.
by OremLK on Aug 25, 2025 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
His defense was never going to relatively average at 3B
He was a disaster over there. Absolutely no lateral range (which is far, far more important that errors/handling chances - you can’t make errors on balls your don’t get to).
Bullpen Banter
www.bullpenbanter.com
twitter: @alskor
by alskor on Aug 25, 2025 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
He moves better than you'd expect.
I certainly wouldn’t characterize him as having “absolutely no” lateral range, or “fall down” range. It’s a weak area of his game, but he’s not as bad as you’re making it sound. I’m skeptical of things scouts say about the fielding of bad body hitters because there’s still a great deal of bias in that area.
Regardless, I’d argue that lateral range isn’t overly important at third base. I’d grade up all the other areas of his game, especially his hands. He gobbles up everything hit in his area.
By the way, of course I wasn’t judging him based on errors. What kind of fool do you take me for? :)
by OremLK on Aug 25, 2025 5:23 AM EDT up reply actions
He could move better than I'd expect...
…and still be a terrible fielder.
I’d be pretty surprised if Mt. Rushmore suddenly moved a foot to its left, too.
by Vlad on Aug 25, 2025 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is he a terrible fielder?
He doesn’t look it.
by JetSam on Aug 25, 2025 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I was just saying in general... not you.
Three organizations with needs at 3B have given up on him. I think you’re being too kind, and I think lateral defense is extremely important at 3B.
I think he would not embarrass himself at 3B and I wouldn’t quibble with your description three comments above. I don’t think he could even be average, but for the next couple years he could possibly be something like a -7.5 defender over there… but I don’t think good organizations settle for that at 3B anymore.
Bullpen Banter
www.bullpenbanter.com
twitter: @alskor
by alskor on Aug 25, 2025 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
kick up the extreme statements
You haven’t gone far enough. And hey, that old chestnut about balls you can’t get to is always good.
by JetSam on Aug 25, 2025 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Justin Smoak starting the year in the majors.
I understand why it was necessary, and yeah, he had done pretty well in AAA in very limited time. But I definitely would have stuck with Davis or gone and got someone cheap. Probably both options would have outperformed Smoak and allowed him a bit more time.
There are a couple of questionable decisions by the Rangers, but it’s pretty hard to criticize right now.
by Fuckmikereilly on Aug 24, 2025 9:16 PM EDT reply actions
The facts
Since we’re all about the facts here, Justin Smoak started the year in AAA and was called up and played on April 23rd.
"This has got to hurt"
by Da.aron on Aug 24, 2025 9:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
but I still think Smoak's
going to be a very VERY good 1B.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 25, 2025 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Ooooooooo, I have another one for the Cubs
The Cubs’ decision to move RHP Chris Huseby to OF is quite possibly the strangest thing they’ve done all year. I get letting a guy work out some pitching struggles by letting him swing the bat at instructs…but the decision to make him a starting a OF with Boise when it looked like his pitching problems had been resolved just confuses the hell out of me.
by Outshined_One on Aug 24, 2025 9:19 PM EDT reply actions
O_O
I thought the reporting on that was that Huseby got so frustrated pitching that he asked to make the move. Granted, maybe the Cubs should’ve denied it and given him some time off instead.
by toonsterwu on Aug 24, 2025 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
My understanding
I was always under the impression that the decision to move him full-time to the OF this season was the organization’s decision. I remember Oneri Fleita saying the Cubs basically told him not to worry about pitching for the rest of the season and that he’d instead be playing OF. Now, it could be that Huseby told them he wanted to make the move full-time, but I Fleita sounding like this was more the Cubs’ decision than his.
by Outshined_One on Aug 24, 2025 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Mejia
You just don’t take your top pitching prospect and come out of spring training with him as a middle reliever unless he’s ready and you want to save some innings on his arm ala Liriano.
"This has got to hurt"
by Da.aron on Aug 24, 2025 9:42 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Why haven't I seen Chris Tillman listed yet?
www.oriolesprospects.com/forums
by Jordan Tuwiner on Aug 24, 2025 10:37 PM EDT reply actions
I thought it was a given
That every pitcher in the Orioles system is tied for first on this list, and everyone else is fighting for second.
by realitypolice on Aug 25, 2025 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure if this counts, but...
Firing Josh Byrnes was a stupid player development decision that just keeps on giving. Since John didn’t specifically mention player moves, that’s what I’m going with.
http://www.chop-n-change.com
by alexwithclass on Aug 24, 2025 10:45 PM EDT reply actions
+1
Bullpen Banter
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twitter: @alskor
by alskor on Aug 25, 2025 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
The one that bugs me, as an A's fan, is
playing Chris Carter at 1B basically all of April, May, June, and July, when 1B is among the major league team’s few strengths, LF is a black hole both in Oakland and in the high minors, and Carter may be a future DH but he is getting no practice whatsoever at the skill.
Why was he playing 1B, when he doesn’t even play it well, instead of learning LF and/or learning DH?
So then Carter is called up to play LF in mid-August, when he had only been out there for 11 days in AAA, and having now been sent back to AAA he has still had virtually no experience at DH in his career. Oh, he’s playing 1B tonight.
Meanwhile, Barton is ensconced at 1B and Carter’s future in 2011 looks to be…?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 24, 2025 10:53 PM EDT reply actions
He's probably going to need at least a few months in the minors next year anyway
They’re getting him reps in LF now and I’m sure it will continue into next season. Even if he was solid out there defensively, he shouldn’t be in the bigs right now anyway.
by nixa37 on Aug 24, 2025 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
a serious question
Why was he playing 1B, when he doesn’t even play it well, instead of learning LF and/or learning DH?
How do you learn DH?
by npurcell on Aug 25, 2025 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Having to learn how to sit on a bench without having your ass go numb?
by russak on Aug 25, 2025 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Some people have a hard time doing it
Do you think that’s because their ass is numb?
by JetSam on Aug 25, 2025 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Pat Burrell couldn't do it in Tampa
But doing just fine back in the NL playing LF.
by unspider on Aug 25, 2025 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
i was gonna say that too… maybe he means to stay warm and stuff?
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Aug 25, 2025 5:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Some guys have trouble staying focused or don’t feel like they’re really in the game as a DH. Others feel it’s a slight to their defense, even players not known for being defensive assets. It can be a mental adjustment.
by whichthat on Aug 25, 2025 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Studies show that most guys do significantly worse as a DH
Seems reasonable that a player has to get used to only hitting a few times and doing nothing else all game.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 25, 2025 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup
Some guys feel a lot of pressure to get a hit every time if they can’t contribute in the field. I’ve heard many guys describe this feeling. Its a real effect.
Same way some guys just can’t or don’t want to deal with the pressure of Closing. We can sit here at our computers all day and say “well, you’re doing the same damn thing - performing the exact same actions when you’re hitting regardless of whether you play the field or not” just as we can say getting outs as a pitcher is the same in the 9th as it is in the 5th… but we’re dealing with human beings here and some guys react to it differently.
Bullpen Banter
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twitter: @alskor
by alskor on Aug 25, 2025 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't disagree with anything you've said, though I do think there's an actual "going cold" factor involved in DHing
In some ways, a DH is basically pinch hitting 3 or 4 times a game. Pinch hitting is hard. It’s just not easy to be in a playing mode when all you do is hit.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 26, 2025 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
DHing is actually a skill
The routine is really different, and it takes practice/experience just like reps at a defensive position takes.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 26, 2025 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Is there a study that confirms this?
I am not arguing with this theory, but do you have a link that supports it?
by King Billy Royal on Aug 26, 2025 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
The Book by MGL et al
has a significant section on hitting “penalties” in which they discuss pinch-hitting (hurts everybody a lot) and DHing (hurts some hitters a lot, others almost not at all).
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
by PaulThomas on Aug 26, 2025 4:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, IIRC there's some evidence that guys who rotate through the DH
seem to be hurt worse than players who do it everyday, but unlike with the baseline penalty, I’m not sure where (or even 100% if) I read that.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
by PaulThomas on Aug 26, 2025 4:58 AM EDT up reply actions
This would coincide with Nico's belief that "teaching" a guy to DH actually makes sense
I can’t prove it, but I think that a guy like Ortiz or Thome probably doesn’t have much of a penalty. After doing it for years, I’m not sure their numbers would really benefit by playing the field (and their overall value would probably be worse).
I’m pretty sure the Book mentioned the idea that the “day off” DH is worse than the full-time DH. I feel like I read that somewhere, too.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 26, 2025 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Draft
Many team’s that didn’t spend on the draft messed up on player development. With hard slotting on it’s way, teams not stocking up on high end talent in the later rounds are missing out on exploiting this flaw while it still exists.
http://milbprospects.blogspot.com/
by Matt Garrioch on Aug 24, 2025 10:57 PM EDT reply actions
um...
they still have next year in what is reported to be a MUCH better draft
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Aug 25, 2025 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
deeper, actually, 2011 is
what the hell is with the yoda-speak?
anyway, I like Rendon more than I like Harper and there are A LOT more prep bats next year that are border-line elite than in this past year’s draft.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 25, 2025 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
The college class is what makes 2011 exciting
The HS class looks solid, but certainly not elite, or one that sticks out as much better than the past few. That could change if some guys step up during the spring, obviously.
http://bullpenbanter.com/
by Jeff Reese on Aug 25, 2025 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Correct me if I'm wrong
but it seems like HS classes are much more difficult to predict than college classes. (BTW, wasn’t Harper supposed to be a ’11 kid?)
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Aug 26, 2025 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions
There's definitely more volatility
Yes, Harper would have been a 2011 draftee.
http://bullpenbanter.com/
by Jeff Reese on Aug 26, 2025 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I strongly disagree with the word "flaw"
Hard slotting will be the flaw.
http://bullpenbanter.com/
by Jeff Reese on Aug 25, 2025 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
I highly dislike the idea of hard slotting but it could happen. I say flaw, it could have been loophole but it’s all speculation at this point.
The 2010 draft was quite deep in my opinion. The consensus opinion on the 2011 draft is loaded at th top. I don’t see past the 1st round being that much better than any other draft although and I don’t have a good handle on how deep the 2011 draft will be. If a team wanted to open the checkbook this year, they could really turn their system around. They may have to move money around, or even take a loss this year, but I would spend a ton on the draft while I still can.
http://milbprospects.blogspot.com/
by Matt Garrioch on Aug 25, 2025 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would it be a flaw?
What the NBA does with draft picks is fantastic.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 25, 2025 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I know nothing about the NBA
What hard slotting will do is significantly weaken minor league systems. Clubs would no longer be able to meet the players’ minimum price to buy out a college commitment, and two sport athletes would be driven from baseball. Draftees are the best bargains in baseball as it is, and the only thing this will do is help the owners’ bottom line.
http://bullpenbanter.com/
by Jeff Reese on Aug 25, 2025 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see how any of this is actually true or damaging if true
Why would two-sport athletes be driven from baseball? How many players are choosing between the NFL and MLB and choose baseball because they can make more money immediately? My guess: Only guys who are significantly better at baseball and would get more money in a hard slot system anyway.
How would hard slotting weaken the minor leagues? Explain.
The second point, if even true (doubtful, since players wouldn’t be negotiating. they could set a price and teams just wouldn’t draft them), doesn’t make baseball worse. If anything it just gets more guys going to college for a couple years. I don’t see how this is big deal, really.
I think hard slotting gets more guys signed, more guys are drafted where they should be based on talent.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 26, 2025 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Because two sport athletes have more immediate money making ability in the other sport, and can get by more easily on pure athleticism. Baseball players must spend years developing their skills in order to earn a shot at an MLB career. There needs to be some monetary incentive for them to give up the other sport. Hard slotting would force them out of baseball. Zach Lee, for example, would be headed to LSU to play football if not for an ability to go overslot.
Teams would no longer be able to meet players’ reserve price to forgo college. Perhaps it all evens out 3 years post-hard slotting when those loaded college classes become draft eligible, but I’m of the opinion that players usually develop more rapidly in professional organizations. Under the best scenario, you’re looking at a 3 year period of significantly worse minor league systems.
How doesn’t that make baseball worse when the best talent is unable to be drafted?
http://bullpenbanter.com/
by Jeff Reese on Aug 26, 2025 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
2 rounds vs. 50 rounds
I don’t think that makes them very comparable, especially not equally.
My opinion though is I could see maybe the first round or the first 3 rounds slotted with the rest open market. I’m sure there’s a flaw somewhere in that suggestion, but it would allow for flexibility $-wise for your later picks.
by pack_fan on Aug 26, 2025 5:27 AM EDT up reply actions
You could be right.
I’m just really, really against an 18 year old who hasn’t done a damn thing worth even a penny getting millions and millions. It’s much worse in the NFL, where a piece of garbage QB like Sam Bradford can get $50 million guaranteed just because he was the #1 overall pick and the NFL has no rules that keep a guy who might not be one of the 50 best quarterbacks in the league from making that much money.
I just really like how the NBA does it. There’s no hold outs. Teams get the player they drafted every single time (unless they trade them or something, but that’s not because of contracts).
Really, there’s not much point in having a draft if there’s so many opportunities for players to gain leverage.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 26, 2025 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a hard time feeling bad for the owners
The players deserve every penny they can get, especially in the NFL where there are no guaranteed contracts. I find it amusing how many people feel bad for Billionaire owners while calling Millionaire owners greedy. Also, what is your evidence that Sam Bradford is a ‘piece of garbage QB’? It seems like NFL scouts tend to disagree with you.
by King Billy Royal on Aug 26, 2025 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm with you, Billy
Not sure why draftees shouldn’t exploit every bit of leverage they have, and all you have to do is sub yourself in for the draftee for a second before you begin to understand how you’d feel about the process. A few years ago I’d have probably agreed with thejd44, but the more you examine things the more you realize that the whole concept of a draft is onerous enough to players without further damaging them via slotting. Never mind the ongoing inequity of the Rule IV draft versus the international signing period. No, the draft is questionable enough in and of itself without chipping away at the finances. And why begrudge someone else the money that that another party is perfectly willing to pay them. It’s a total non sequitur to me that anyone still cares. Irrational moralizing.
And you’re not paying them for what they have or haven’t done, you’re paying for the rights to what they may do. Most players and their agents understand that the majors are where the money is, but elite prospects get additional security in the form of bonuses or straight up contracts. I’m not sure why that’s an issue when the bonuses are bargains compared to what even a mediocre major league veteran gets paid, and when even the best players are under team control at reduced salaries. No, there are plenty of constraints in palce to assure that players don’t start to make real money until they’re established.
by blackoutyears on Aug 26, 2025 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
The owners benefit plenty by paying all the later round players pennies on the dollar. I don’t hear anybody crying for them. Why shouldn’t the elite talents get paid? If teams don’t like it, they can go the cheap route and draft lesser prospects (i.e. Jeremy Brown).
by King Billy Royal on Aug 26, 2025 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
If anyone who complains about the draft
was restricted to negotiating employment with a single employer they’d scream bloody murder. Of course you can always decide not to work for them and try again next year. Yeah, those players sure do hold all the cards. lol
by blackoutyears on Aug 26, 2025 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
yep
the further down the draft you do the slotting, the more guys you’ll get that won’t sign.
by pack_fan on Aug 27, 2025 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
hard slotting doesn’t fix much and creates more problems
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by alskor on Aug 25, 2025 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Explain. Because as I said, the NBA has not a single problem with it
It could just be that more rounds makes it more complicated, but I’m wondering how.
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by thejd44 on Aug 26, 2025 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Whoops
Missed this. It’s been covered above at this point, but the big concern is you drive kids to other sports. Same as the argument against the intl. draft idea.
As also discussed above, drafted players are underpaid and present a fantastic value as it is.
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by alskor on Aug 27, 2025 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep
And does anyone still find the contortions necessary to assemble an NBA team without exceeding the cap anything but self-parodic at this point? And there is ample evidence that NBA and NFL caps have not fully ensured parity, but rather are bald-faced mechanisms to depress player salaries to the benefit of ownership. Unfortunately there’s no system that can prevent teams from making bad decisions.
by blackoutyears on Aug 30, 2025 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
This isn't that bad
but i wasn’t too big on the Josh Vitters to AA move. I know he had shown some improvement in A+ and was making contact, but I would’ve preferred to see him dominate a level. I know there’s the argument out there that he won’t change until he’s beat down and forced to, but I don’t know if I completely agree with that. The adjusted numbers (granted, they should be taken with a grain of salt) on minorleaguesplits for Vitters time in Daytona was … not good.
by toonsterwu on Aug 24, 2025 11:22 PM EDT reply actions
vitters to AA was pretty bad
He has made slow but steady progress at each level when he hasn’t been rushed.
by mrkupe on Aug 25, 2025 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Reddick being up in the MLB this year
he is not ready yet and Boston has killed his confidence
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 24, 2025 11:29 PM EDT reply actions
He only started 8 games...
and he wasn’t lighting the world on fire before then. I think his approach issues caught up with him - that he started to see that last season in his cup of coffee. His second half hasn’t been bad… he’s making adjustments. Been on fire recently.
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by alskor on Aug 25, 2025 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Reddick
Reddick’s OVER-confidence was killed, which is fine: he has to learn to be more selective. And now he’s 8 for his last 9 with 3 hrs.
by Jim in NC on Aug 25, 2025 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
List
Aroldis Chapman - They paid him to be a SP. It’s understandable that the Red wish to bring him up through the bullpen, ala Liriano, Santana, etc but call him up or start him. Same with Scheppers and Mcgee; although, I think McGee should be capped considering he’s a TJ survivor.
Jaime Garcia - Picked a bad year to be relied on. The Cards, well everyone, underestimated the Reds. Too bad they didn’t build the padded lead to get him some rest and instead he’ll exceed his previous IP by 40ish. Tom Verducci will be pleased.
Meija’s already been covered. Brandon Wood, clearly lost Socia’s confidence and his own. Kila should’ve been up before. Mat Gamel needs to be freed. Franklin Morales opening the season as the closer. Phillippe Aumont’s development, and his performance, has never made sense. Instead of letting him prove himself, the Brewers used a loophole to prevent Jeremy Jeffress from reaching a lifetime ban.
Agree, disagree. Just talk about things that have happened this year.
by TheEconomist on Aug 25, 2025 3:28 AM EDT reply actions
Screw Brandon Wood
I am tired of the excuses people make for Wood. Sure he has been jerked around but he has never hit when brought to the show. Eventually he has to hit big league pitching or accept that he is a AAAA player.
by King Billy Royal on Aug 25, 2025 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Gamel
He needs to be traded to the AL where he can play either 1B or DH. He can’t handle 3B and the OF and 1B are filled with the Brew Crew so they need to either trade him or Prince to get Gamel some chances. He has a decent bat but his glove lets more balls past than Paris Hilton’s legs.
by King Billy Royal on Aug 25, 2025 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
zing
or he lets more balls pass than Ricky Martin at an all you can eat buffet
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 25, 2025 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
How is this bad?
I am saying that he needs to move to the AL so they can let his bat play. I am saying he has a DECENT BAT. That is not an insult.
Also, the majority of scouts agree that Gamel will never be close to a MLB 3B. What is the issue with moving him to 1B or DH to take advantage of his talents?
I think the real personal jihad is your hard on for Gamel.
by King Billy Royal on Aug 25, 2025 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I see the answer
I see you are a fan of the Brewers. It makes sense now that you are prone to overrating Gamel’s defense.
by King Billy Royal on Aug 25, 2025 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
You make it sound as if the Brewers shouldn’t use Jeffress because he smoked reefer. Poor use of the word loophole as well.
by JetSam on Aug 25, 2025 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
still dont understand why pitching chapman in relief is seen so negatively
by pack_fan on Aug 25, 2025 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
RP are extremeley less valuable than starters
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by gore51 on Aug 25, 2025 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
show me proof that he's going to be a RP for his career
because if you can’t, your argument is just nonsense
by pack_fan on Aug 26, 2025 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
it's only a negative if they see him as a reliever long term
if they strictly moved him there to be a high impact arm down the stretch, then that’s fine. relievers, i think, are of higher importance in the playoffs.
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by doublestix on Aug 25, 2025 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
this right here is exactly my point
I see it as good player managmenr that they’ve given him a chance to help the team down the stretch. Plus the fact that he’s shown improved control and had success as a reliever. At this point, there’s no reason why the move to the bullpen can’t help him instead of hurting him. Pretty much the reason I don’t understand why people see it as a negative. Jocketty’s even said in the media that they still see him as a starter.
by pack_fan on Aug 26, 2025 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Smoak and FMart get my vote....
I hate whatever it is the Mets are doing with Martinez, but I can understand the politics. They have 4 OFs right now. If they trade Beltran to the Red Sox (or someone) and kick Pagan into CF then he might see ABs, but how likely is it that that happens?
Beltran to the Sox is already my favorite trade idea of the offseason btw. It makes alot of both teams if the Sox and Mets can work out a deal…possibly something built around Dice K.
by SenorGato on Aug 25, 2025 4:42 AM EDT reply actions
What did you want the mets to do with F-Mart
Give him a longer everyday shot in the OF this season? He isn’t ready. Maybe not move him up at all, but whatever…he wasn’t in the majors long anyway.
by auclairkeithbc on Aug 25, 2025 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Medlen
I know we talked about it on this site but the way the Braves jerked Kris Medlen around is atrocious. You might not think he was the greatest starter ever but he was getting the job done after about a dozen starts then he gets sent to the bullpen, then starts, bullpen, etc…Tommy John surgery later
by Willigan on Aug 25, 2025 4:46 AM EDT reply actions
I don’t see a problem with it. It was more or less a classic swing man / long relief role. Every team needs one or two, and it’s a great way to break in a young starter who hasn’t built up into the 150-200 IP per season range that’s expected of regular MLB starters. In Medlen’s case, he’s never thrown more than 120 IP in a season.
by rlwhite on Aug 25, 2025 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
but he started with the Braves as a Starter (no pun intended)
and the only way he was going to make the team, conceivably at the time, was as a swing man.
the Braves have shown that they can get a guy back from TJ and he can be successful (Hudson and he is over 10 years Medlen’s senior and has taken Kris under his wing…plus, Kris taught him a different change this year), so Medlen doesn’t seem like a guy we should write off just yet.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 25, 2025 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
He came up the system as a reliever until he had half a season of AA. He’s never started for much more than a half-season at a time. Preparing him as a SP for most of spring training this year was just good conservative planning. They knew he would be a key piece of injury insurance, and it’s a good thing for any swingman to get stretched out.
by rlwhite on Aug 25, 2025 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Alex Gordon
Getting jerked around up and down from the majors to the minors. He gets 33 ABs coming off an injury in April, and they pull the plug on him and send him right down to the minors. He proceeds to rake, hitting .315 with 14 HRs in AAA, yet Dayton Moore says “he’s not ready yet”. I don’t get it. You could also say the same for the Kila monster, ready for the bigs and rotting in the minors. Could Dayton Moore truly be any worse of a GM?
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by punto4mvp on Aug 25, 2025 8:43 AM EDT reply actions
Gordon/Kila
You do realize Gordon was moved to AAA to learn to play the outfield, right? They didn’t want him trying to learn a brand new position at the MLB level, which makes sense. He was working on defense, not offense, hence the “not ready yet” comment.
Kila sure is proving his doubters wrong with his .435 OPS since the promo to KC. I sincerely hope the guy turns it around, but maybe, just maybe, Royals brass had an idea he was a quad A player.
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by eazyb81 on Aug 25, 2025 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions
At the time
They hadn’t decided he was moving to the OF, at least they hadn’t announced that yet. But sure, I guess thats fair. I didn’t really get the fact that they pulled him after 33 ABs in the majors and were displeased with him at that point.
Definitely don’t get why Kila was down in the minors for so long though, he had nothing left to prove.
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by punto4mvp on Aug 25, 2025 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Kila was in the minors because he is an overrated hitter
The Royals likely had a hunch that he was not going to handle MLB pitching well.
by King Billy Royal on Aug 25, 2025 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah
they have so much to lose by giving him a shot at the league minimum salary. (sarcasm)
by richieabernathy on Aug 25, 2025 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Doesn't everybody hit well in KC's AAA environment?
by King Billy Royal on Aug 25, 2025 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Also regarding Dayton Moore
While I don’t think he has done a good job, he has really built them a great minor league system.
by King Billy Royal on Aug 25, 2025 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
or
has it been that he’s sucked on a Major League Level for so long that he’s stockpiled picks and those picks have actually panned out?
the Tampa Bay Rays way of getting good
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 25, 2025 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
4 of the 7 best prospects
(IMO anyways) were picked in the 3rd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th rounds. so that really doesn’t fly. and another in the supp round.
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by doublestix on Aug 25, 2025 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
It also doesn't fly to give Dayton Moore all the credit. I don't know who their director of scouting is, but maybe he should be the GM.
by Humbled Fan on Aug 25, 2025 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
this is true
but there’s the “buck stops here” argument too. he hired the guy who’s making the right calls.
R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
by doublestix on Aug 25, 2025 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
True
But it is likely that Dayton Moore had a hand in picking that director of scouting.
by King Billy Royal on Aug 25, 2025 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Wasn’t Moore Director of Scouting for Atlanta during their 90’s run? I think it’s safe to assume that he’s played a large role in KC’s recent accumulation of young talent.
by deezle on Aug 25, 2025 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
no
Paul Snyder was the head of scouting during the Braves’ run. Then Roy Clark.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 25, 2025 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
trusty wikipedia
He later served as an assistant director of scouting, assistant director of player development, and director of international scouting before his promotion in 2002 to director of player personnel development.
Safe to say he knows a thing or two about scouting, so he should certainly be given credit for the wealth of young talent in KC’s farm system.
by deezle on Aug 25, 2025 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
J.J. Picollo
who, incidentally, came from the Braves and was head of the Minor League Operations. I bet he learned a few things in Atlanta.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 25, 2025 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
J.J. Picollo
who, incidentally, was in Atlanta.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 25, 2025 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a rank oversimplification
and misinterpretation of how the Rays built a contending team and is absolutely wrong as an explanation of their run to the World Series in 2008.
by bobr on Aug 25, 2025 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Joba Chamberlain
Wasn’t he jerked around enough? Reliever, starter, reliever, starter, reliever, etc.
Also, I would say anyone from the White Sox, though they aren’t really developing players these days.
by fishhead711 on Aug 25, 2025 8:53 AM EDT reply actions
Is a guy really being jerked around when he loses a job for inneffectiveness?
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by alskor on Aug 25, 2025 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Daniel Fields - Tigers
Drafted as a sixth round over slot high school shortstop.
Placed as an OF and toiled the whole year hitting .240 in A+ FSL, supposedly a pitching paradise.
Did the Tigers decide they just don’t like this guy?
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by strums on Aug 25, 2025 9:07 AM EDT reply actions
He's actually hitting at about an average clip for the league
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by David Tokarz on Aug 25, 2025 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
He's above average, actually.
Average OPS in the FSL is .692 this year. Fields is hitting .240/.348/.369 for an OPS of .717. Despite being one of the youngest players in the FSL, he has one of the highest walk rates (Just over 13%). Of course, he’s striking out in about 30% of his at bats…
by Dberg on Aug 25, 2025 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
At 19 in Hi A
I think it’s okay to use that as an excuse for another year.
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by David Tokarz on Aug 25, 2025 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
The love him
As raw as he was supposed to be, his current .729 OPS would not have surprised me at all in low A, and would have been about what I expected in GCL.
by The Fume on Aug 26, 2025 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I realize it was in connection with his drafting
But does Jeff Samardzija count?
Another older one (but one of the biggest of all time) - Mark Fidrych
John VanBenschoten - guy sets the NCAA record for home runs in a season, and the Pirates draft him as a pitcher? And then they keep him at pitcher after he struggles and gets injured?
And I do think Edwin Jackson does belong on the list. His handling after the Randy Johnson game, but before being traded to the Rays, probably set him back a couple years.
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by Brickhaus on Aug 25, 2025 9:08 AM EDT reply actions
In fairness on the JVB thing...
…once he hurt the non-throwing shoulder he said that he wasn’t able to swing the bat very well anymore. Moving him at that point was a non-option.
Starting him out as a pitcher was pretty dumb, though.
by Vlad on Aug 25, 2025 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
You know, I was never sold Samardzija was anything that great to begin with.
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by alskor on Aug 25, 2025 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of Edwin Jackson
Is his run of success since being traded to Chicago a mechanical improvement by Don Cooper, or smoke and mirrors?
by Hillstop on Aug 26, 2025 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I watched the first couple White Sox games he pitched after coming over (on and off)
but the (awful) white sox tv guys were saying something about them seeing something in his mechanics. That first game they showed him in the dugout talking with the pitching coach and from his gestures and the announcers it appeared to me they were talking about his mechanics. Apparently he’s really bad at repeating his delivery and the White Sox have made that a focus for him. I’m buying it.
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by alskor on Aug 26, 2025 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks.
If that’s the case, I’m surprised nobody else picked up on it. Whatever they did seems pretty minor, after all.
by Hillstop on Aug 26, 2025 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
most mechanical changes are.
see the ridiculously simple adjustment don cooper made to matt thornton’s delivery which, after a single side session, essentially corrected his command issues. the obstacle often is simply getting a player to buy into what they’re being told to do/change. maybe a coach like don cooper, who has a very good reputation, has a credibility advantage in that respect.
it’s a small sample size and all for jackson so we’ll see how it works for the rest of the season and beyond. but this article gives you the overview of the “changes”.
by larry on Aug 26, 2025 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Good read.
Don Cooper certainly commands that level of respect.
by Hillstop on Aug 27, 2025 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Saw part of Jackson's last start
and his slider was phenomenal. Because his FB is so straight, he has to throw the slider optimally to win. The break on it was absolutely filthy and it’s completely believable that this is a mechanical tweak.
And completely agreed that the White Sox commentators are the worst. They may as well mic two random homers in the bleachers.
by blackoutyears on Aug 30, 2025 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Does anyone think it was a mistake to bring up Strasburg?
by Zach (maestro876) on Aug 25, 2025 11:20 AM EDT reply actions
No
He was ready to go. I think that it was a huge mistake not to shut him down for the season as soon as he felt the 1st twinge in his shoulder that sent him to the DL the first time. It’s not like anything that he did after that would have any meaning to his career or the Nat’s season. It was purely a diecision made to get more money into the team’s coffers this year.
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by Fla-Giant on Aug 25, 2025 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Disagree
I don’t think it was anything in terms of a “twinge in his shoulder”. They said he couldn’t get loose. When he came back, his velocity was better than it was before, so there were no signs he was hurt. Also, they did have something to gain by letting him pitch again: getting his innings up. By getting him more innings this year, they could be more aggressive increasing his innings the next year. Point being, he will probably be on another innings limit next year.
by polodude017 on Aug 25, 2025 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
If the doctors say he's 100% good to go after his DL stint, you let him pitch. There's a lot to be gained. Another problem after that is more coincidence than anything.
He’s going to be fine people.
by Humbled Fan on Aug 25, 2025 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Buster Posey
Without a doubt, the top of the list for this year has to include the Giants (read Brian Sabean) mishandling of the Buster Posey callup. It easily could mean the difference between whether or not the Giants make the playoffs this year.
First off, Sabean waited way too long to call Posey up when it was obvious to any informed observer that Posey would be the best catcher in SF as soon as he hit the majors, and that he would be one of the top 2 or 3 hitters on the team right off the bat (no pun intended). Sabean even had a public meltdown in the press back in May where he denigrated Posey’s defensive capability to play catcher in the majors. There’s nothing better to generate loyalty than publicly humiliating your #1 prospect in the local press.
Secondly, after waiting so long to call Posey up (with Bengie Molina’s game sinking lower and lower every day) Sabean finally calls him up on May 28th. Just in time to ensure that Posey will certainly become Super 2 arb-eligible after the 2011 season. If they had just waited another 3-4 weeks he wouldn’t be eligible for arb until after the 2012 season. Or, if Sabean hadn’t been so dumb as to call up Posey on Sept. 1, 2009 - adding 34 days to his major league service clock while only playing him in 7 games and giving 17 ABs.
Finally, they had Posey starting at 1B (not even full time) for his first 30 days in the majors this year, when it’s obvious that Bengie Molina’s bat and defense had deteriorated to the point that he was a below-average catcher and a horrible hitter.
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by Fla-Giant on Aug 25, 2025 11:21 AM EDT reply actions
True
I wouldn’t blame them for leaving him in the minors to start the season, but bringing him up right before the super-2 arb date was stupid.
*Sorry that belongs here
by polodude017 on Aug 25, 2025 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
True
I wouldn’t blame them for leaving him in the minors to start the season, but bringing him up right before the super-2 arb date was stupid.
by polodude017 on Aug 25, 2025 11:42 AM EDT reply actions
Mat Gamel
Not even counting last year when they kept him on the major league bench for about a month.
The Brewers have still refused to find him a position he can play. I know it makes sense to keep him at the tougher position as long as possible and the Brewers have recently started to give him reps at 1b and RF — but he is still playing the majority of his time at 3B despite being in his 6th year in the system and never showing any ability to play that position.
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Aug 25, 2025 1:26 PM EDT reply actions
+1
They really need to give him a full year split between 1b and the OF. The 3b experiment has failed and needs to cease immediately.
by King Billy Royal on Aug 25, 2025 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Carlos Triunfel
pushed way, way too aggressively from the day he entered the system. Shouldn’t be in AA.
Matt Tuiasosopo is another one. The Mariners have been playing catchup on his aggressive promotion for years.
I think Brett Lawrie’s jump to AA was a mistake, too, but not on the line of some others.
Jumping back to the Mariners, Jeff Clement was left at catcher way, way too long (even after the Ms basically gave up on him at the position), just long enough for his knee to mess up his swing mechanics and slow his bat down to the point where he no longer has a real major league future. Take a look at what he did back in the first half of 2008: power, patience, contact…he was in line to be a great player, but his body has betrayed him ever since.
by slamcactus on Aug 25, 2025 1:53 PM EDT reply actions
How so on Lawrie?
He was good in the Midwest League his first year. The Brewers High-A team plays at Space Coast stadium in Brevard which just kills right handed hitting, so it wasn’t the worst thing to let him skip that level and challenge him in AA, where he has performed quite well this year.
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Aug 25, 2025 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh,
I’m a level-at-a-time kind of guy. Lawrie didn’t absolutely destroy the MWL, and he’s had some rough patches this year.
It’s a pretty low-grade move though, more of a personal disagreement than something i truly consider “boneheaded.”
by slamcactus on Aug 25, 2025 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
by "level-at-a-time"
I’m still totally in favor of advancing guys when they’re ready, I just think they should prove it first and hit their way into a mid-season (or even early season) promotion. I’m all for aggressive in-season promoting for guys who are killing it at their level, but I think skipping should be reserved for truly special circumstances/players who have made an enormous offseason leap in ability.
by slamcactus on Aug 25, 2025 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, but in this case it worked
That might have been dumb luck on their part, or they might have had some understanding about Lawrie’s psychology that we don’t. At the time, I didn’t agree with the move either, but it looks pretty smart now
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by OldProspects on Aug 26, 2025 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Can I go ahead and nominate every major move the Tigers have made this year?
Porcello was bounced to AAA for like 4 starts which wasn’t really helpful.
Scott Sizemore was jerked around and now he’s being shifted around the infield (away from 2B).
Jacob Turner never should have gone to Hi-A as soon as he has.
Austin Jackson’s done well, but on a high BABIP and he probably could have benefited from some time in AAA.
Alex Avila’s looked lost and probably could have used regular at-bats in AAA.
Daniel Fields is 19 and in Hi-A.
Andy Oliver was rushed to the Majors for 4 starts.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Aug 25, 2025 1:54 PM EDT reply actions
Turner in five starts at A+ since July 30: 25.2 IP, 21 K, 4 BB, 4 ER, 15 H. So a 1.40 ERA, 5.25 K/BB, 7.36 K/9, and .74 WHIP. I think he’s doing fine and I don’t think he’s been rushed so far.
by limozeen on Aug 25, 2025 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Turner
Amazing to me that some feel his season has been a disappointment. What more can you really expect in his first pro season?
by deezle on Aug 25, 2025 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Not that his season has been a disappointment
But I’m a believer in a Rays philosophy- advance pitchers slowly.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Aug 25, 2025 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Fields...
should probably be in Low-A, it’s true, but I’m really encouraged at how he’s handled the FSL.
by slamcactus on Aug 25, 2025 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure if this counts
But in my book, the worst NON move made this year was the Brewers holding onto Prince Fielder because Doug Melvin felt 1) they still had a chance to contend, and 2) he didnt get any offers that included top line MLB starting pitching.
In my book, the best trade the Brewers could have made was to deal Fielder this year before July 31, and not for an immediate fix, but for a semi rebuild/replenish the farm system with arms, type of deal that brought them 3 or 4 high upside A ball pitchers and maybe a 1B prospect as well. (see my aqa question the other day to John involving the Rays and Colome, McGee and Barnese: perfect return for Fielder to a team needing a big bat for the playoffs).
by backtocali on Aug 25, 2025 4:32 PM EDT reply actions
Why not just trade him in the offseason?
I am not saying that I would have kept Fielder, but can’t they just deal him in the offseason for a great return (i.e. Halladay).
by King Billy Royal on Aug 25, 2025 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Not necessarily
If they had traded him pre-deadline, they could have dealt with a team like the Rays who could have used him for the playoffs, or the Angels as a replacement for the injured Kendry Morales. And then subsequently, when Fielder was awarded his $16 million or so in his final year of arbitration, whoever picked him up could then trade him again to a team that could better afford to pay him.
The reason they wont get a great return this offseason, ala Philadelphia and Halladay, is that Scott Boras isnt going to advise Fielder to sign an extension. The reason the Blue Jays got so much in return for Hallady is because the deal was contingent on Doc accepting a contract extension, which wont happen with Fielder.
The Brewers are only gong to have about 3 or 4 suitors for Fielder this offseason because of his contract status (and also Doug Melvin’s outrageous demands for a return) wheras if he was deal this year, they could have dealt with maybe as many as 10 teams. And if a deal gets done, they maybe get one nice player and a couple of pieces of medium level prospects.
by backtocali on Aug 25, 2025 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
Trading him in the offseason drastically reduces the sellers involved, and it’s hard to imagine that the market for Fielder won’t be there
by Hillstop on Aug 26, 2025 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Travis Snider
Up and Down since the end of 2008; less then 500 total abs. He did have an injury earlier this year but they gave him an extended stay in AA and now he rides the bench more often then not in the MLB. Add in that they(cito) had him hitting in the 9 hole and now in the leadoff spot. I’d say he is getting jerked around pretty good and his development has probably suffered.
by TroyK on Aug 25, 2025 4:36 PM EDT reply actions
Dombrowski
I generally like a lot of the moves Dombrowski does, but he certainly deserves a lot of the blame for the Tigers woes right now.
First, he gave terrible deals to a number of players, and they’ve all come back to haunt them especially this year. Shelling out contracts, and then releasing or trading (while paying the majority of salary) Adam Everett, Nate Robertson, and Dontrelle Willis, along with constantly moving around, and parading out the fragile Carlos Guillen, has made huge holes on the team everywhere.
This has caused Dombrowski to now call up players like Andy Oliver, Danny Worth, Scott Sizemore, Casper Wells, Robbie Weinhardt, and a number of others already up like Alex Avila, Ryan Perry, and so forth, who clearly aren’t ready to be consistent major league starters/contributors to the team.
Not to mention, they continue to plug guys like Gerald Laird, Ryan Raburn, Don Kelly, and Brandon Inge in the lineup everyday.
So due to Dombrowski’s overspending on the veterans, he’s been forced to make something like 11 rookies have their debuts this season despite the fact that so few of them are truly ready.
With the size of the Tigers payroll, you’d think they wouldn’t have so many holes to fill, but they do. A lot of it is off the books this offseason, but it means nothing if its spent poorly again.
2010 Tigers contracts coming off the books:
Maggs (15M vesting option)
Willis (12M)
Bonderman (12.5M)
Robertson (9.5M still being paid this year)
Inge (6.6M)
Damon (8M)
Everett (1.5M)
Laird (3.9M)
Seay (2.5M)
by sportznut3081 on Aug 25, 2025 8:06 PM EDT reply actions
the mishandling of Stephen Strasburg, Mejia, F-Mart, Tejada comes to mind
after Stephen got hurt the first time, the Nats should have left him on the DL.. Now, who knows how good he will be?
As for the Mets mishandling their Latin American prospects, meh, they always rushed those guys for some reason.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Aug 26, 2025 11:19 AM EDT reply actions
Houston rushing Jordan Lyles to AAA
Nothing good can come of sending a 19 y/o kid with a low 90’s fastball to AAA.
by Raidas77 on Aug 26, 2025 12:05 PM EDT reply actions
Wait
Until the bring him up to the majors. Then complain.
by auclairkeithbc on Aug 26, 2025 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s going to happen soon than anyone wants.
by auclairkeithbc on Aug 26, 2025 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Rule 5 Draft Failures
by the D’backs letting Dan Uggla go.
This ranks right up with Shane Victorino being not protected in the rule 5 and of course the all-time rule 5 draft failure…… Roberto Clemente not protected by the Dodgers!!!
by dbacks watcher on Aug 27, 2025 1:54 AM EDT reply actions
The Jays nabbed George Bell in the rule 5
by King Billy Royal on Aug 27, 2025 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Johan Santana
Bullpen Banter
www.bullpenbanter.com
twitter: @alskor
by alskor on Aug 27, 2025 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't know that
about Bell. That’s amazing. George Bell was a lot of fun to watch, even though I lived in DET at the time. We’ll never forgive him for stealing Trammell’s MVP in ’87! lol
by blackoutyears on Aug 30, 2025 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought Zobrist was part of the Huff trade?
http://bullpenbanter.com
by gatling on Aug 31, 2025 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions

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