Pittsburgh Pirates Organization Discussion

by John Sickels on Dec 15, 2025 11:14 AM EST Comment 85 comments

Use this thread to discuss the improving Pittsburgh Pirates organization.

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Tony Sanchez

probably number #1 on the list

by hrv1978 on Dec 15, 2025 11:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Ahead of Alvarez?

by jfish26101 on Dec 15, 2025 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No way

Alvarez, Tabata and Lincoln are easily ahead of Sanchez. I’d also rank d’Arnaud ahead of him.

by jar75 on Dec 15, 2025 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Alvarez is easily ahead of Sanchez...

I’m not so sure I put Tabata and Lincoln ahead of him at this point though. Tabata obviously has the higher ceiling, but Sanchez looks like a pretty good bet to be a quality MLB catcher right now. I’d say the three might be interchangeable depending on personal preferences.

by jseiner on Dec 15, 2025 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I want to see Sanchez hit above the SAL

He has the defense already, but I’m still not sold on his bat and I want to see him at higher levels before I disregard the pre-draft scouting.

by jar75 on Dec 15, 2025 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1 on D'Aranaud

Saw him at 2 levels this year and he was exceptional at both - very comfortable on the field and at the plate. I may or may not put him ahead of Sanchez, but he’s an elite prospect in this org.

As for Tabata I’m not convinced he’s the age he says he is and he’s got some off-field distractions he needs to get rid of (crazy old lady)

by KSM on Dec 15, 2025 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Will Raynor rank?

???

by Havok1517 on Dec 15, 2025 11:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I could see him make the list

21-30 range

by Gobroks on Dec 15, 2025 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A lot of 2009 Draftees will be on this list.

Check out my website, it has scouting reports for all the Orioles' top prospects and is updated daily. www.oriolesprospects.com

Follow me on twitter @orioleprospects and discuss the Orioles' prospects in my forums

by ravensfan3 on Dec 15, 2025 11:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Rudy Owens-What’s his ceiling?
Victor Black-Mid rotation starter or late inning reliever?

by another know it all on Dec 15, 2025 11:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Black

I’d put my money on reliever

by jar75 on Dec 15, 2025 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rudy Owens...

J.A Happ type pitcher. Black has the stuff to be an elite starter, but will more than likely be an elite closer.

by joegonzo on Dec 15, 2025 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jarek Cunningham

I’m interested to see what kind of grade he’ll get

by jar75 on Dec 15, 2025 11:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'd give him a C-

Good candidate for a breakout prospect but he needs to stay on the field

by Gobroks on Dec 15, 2025 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

C

by joegonzo on Dec 15, 2025 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

OK

I like Cunningham so I won’t argue about getting a C or C-

by Gobroks on Dec 15, 2025 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

list

Tim Alderson RHP
Pedro Alvarez 3B
Aaron Baker 1B
Nate Baker LHP
Victor Black RHP
Ramon Henry Cabrera C
Colton Cain LHP
Evan Chambers OF
Jarek Cunningham SS
Chase D’Arnaud INF
Zack Dodson LHP
Brian Friday SS
Robbie Grossman OF
Josh Harrison 2B
Gorkys Hernandez OF
Brock Holt 2B
Jeff Inman RHP
Phillip Irwin RHP
Quincy Latimore OF
Brad Lincoln RHP
Jeff Locke LHP
Brett Lorin RHP
Starling Marte OF
Daniel McCutchen RHP
Jordy Mercer SS
Quinton Miller RHP
Diego Moreno RHP
Bryan Morris RHP
Danny Moskos LHP
Rudy Owens LHP
Brooks Pounders RHP
John Raynor OF RULE 5
Tony Sanchez C
Trent Stevenson RHP
Hunter Strickland RHP
Jose Tabata OF
Ronald Uviedo RHP
Donald Veal LHP
Zack Von Rosenberg RHP
Neil Walker 3B

by John Sickels on Dec 15, 2025 11:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

looks good

I like the Colton Cain inclusion. I see a lot of extremely raw, extremely toolsy outfielders.

by another know it all on Dec 15, 2025 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

maybe not

I think Wes Freeman needs to be in there in some capacity.

by another know it all on Dec 15, 2025 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

He had a terrible year, but he’s interesting.

by jar75 on Dec 15, 2025 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Freeman

and Trayce Thompson look like clones, right down to the terrible plate discipline.

by another know it all on Dec 15, 2025 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

pretty good list John

I think my top 5 Pirates

would be:

1. Pedro Alvarez
2. Jose Tabata
3. Tony Sanchez
4. Brad Lincoln
5. Either Rudy Owens or Chase D’Arnaud

H.M. Jeff Locke, Tim Alderson, Zack Von Rosenberg, Robbie Grossman, Starling Marte, gotta love Jon Raynor and Gorkys Hernandez… too maybe Victor Black or Bryan Morris

what to make of Danny Moskos ?

all in all a definate top 10 system overall for me….

Rene Tosoni is good.

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Dec 15, 2025 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Potential people to add to you already good list

Nate Adcock, Argenis Diaz, Tom Boleska, Michael Dubee, Shelby Ford, Matt Hague, Jim Negrych, Nelson Pereira, Aaron Pribanic, Rogelios Noris are worthy of consideration for your list.

Justin Wilson should definitely be on there, we had a vote on a pirates website and he ranked #19.

by houksyndrome on Dec 15, 2025 8:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

freeman

Yeah I should put freeman in. So who do I cut to make room?

by John Sickels on Dec 15, 2025 12:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Irwin...

but Neil Walker could just as easily be off the list. Im not his biggest fan.

by joegonzo on Dec 15, 2025 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

nate baker or phillip irwin

by reverse apache master on Dec 15, 2025 12:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

oops

this was meant to be a reply to the above

by reverse apache master on Dec 15, 2025 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Justin Wilson, anyone?

I like the inclusion of Freeman. I’d cut Harrison off the list.

by woobie on Dec 15, 2025 12:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Aaron Baker and Irwin, too.

Maybe Nelson Periera deserves a mention, too.

by woobie on Dec 15, 2025 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed on Wilson and cutting Harrison.

by thegreatchris on Dec 15, 2025 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Justin Wilson?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oScmodG_riM&feature=PlayList&p=CA94A9378F00A61B&index=0&playnext=1

I guar-an-tee!

by comish4lif on Dec 15, 2025 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

VSL guys

I like the inclusion of Cabrera. I haven’t been following these too closely so I dont know if you normall go all the way down to the latin american leagues, but Jorge Bishop had a pretty big year at an appropriate age. Exicardo Cayones too. Jonathan Barrios at one point was having a great year but I think he dropped off towards the end.

by reverse apache master on Dec 15, 2025 12:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

VSL

With extremely rare exceptions,I don’t do the VSL or the DSL guys.

by John Sickels on Dec 15, 2025 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

list

Tim Alderson RHP
Pedro Alvarez 3B
Nate Baker LHP
Victor Black RHP
Ramon Henry Cabrera C
Colton Cain LHP
Evan Chambers OF
Jarek Cunningham SS
Chase D’Arnaud INF
Zack Dodson LHP
Wesley Freeman OF
Brian Friday SS
Robbie Grossman OF
Josh Harrison 2B
Gorkys Hernandez OF
Brock Holt 2B
Jeff Inman RHP
Phillip Irwin RHP
Quincy Latimore OF
Brad Lincoln RHP
Jeff Locke LHP
Brett Lorin RHP
Starling Marte OF
Daniel McCutchen RHP
Jordy Mercer SS
Quinton Miller RHP
Diego Moreno RHP
Bryan Morris RHP
Danny Moskos LHP
Rudy Owens LHP
Brooks Pounders RHP
John Raynor OF RULE 5
Tony Sanchez C
Trent Stevenson RHP
Hunter Strickland RHP
Jose Tabata OF
Ronald Uviedo RHP
Donald Veal LHP
Zack Von Rosenberg RHP
Neil Walker 3B

Freeman on, Aaron Baker off.

by John Sickels on Dec 15, 2025 12:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Ramon Aguero, Justin Wilson

I wouldn’t leave these two off. Wilson started his pro career at high A, struggled, then finished very strongly. Aguero went from nowhere to AA and a roster spot. He was Altoona’s best reliever in the late season. He throws in the mid- to upper-90s with a good change (I think he has a reverse platoon split) and decent command. I’d put them both ahead of Freeman, Harrison and Irwin for sure, along with a lot of others here.

by WTM on Dec 15, 2025 1:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

sounds like another sues evaluation. not high on aguero because of the talent level he faced down the stretch. wilson is intiguing but likely to end up being another grabow for the bucs.

by rukiddingme on Dec 15, 2025 8:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Most guys on top 30 lists wish they would end up with Grabow’s career.

Aguero’s command is better than Sues’ and he doesn’t have the history of shoulder problems. He also performed better in AA than Sues.

by WTM on Dec 16, 2025 10:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What grade do you guys think Von Rosenburg will get?

Check out my website, it has scouting reports for all the Orioles' top prospects and is updated daily. www.oriolesprospects.com

Follow me on twitter @orioleprospects and discuss the Orioles' prospects in my forums

by ravensfan3 on Dec 15, 2025 1:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

C+

He has good potential but he’s gotta play first(besides 1 inning).

Same with Colton Cain.

Great picks by the Pirates.

by UncleBuck44 on Dec 15, 2025 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

higher than c+

sickels said in june that ZVR has #2 potential

by rdf8585 on Dec 15, 2025 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He said...

he liked him so I could possibly see a B- but no higher.

by joegonzo on Dec 15, 2025 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the kid has a live arm but it takes something upstairs to harness that. does zvr have it? he has a long way to go.

by rukiddingme on Dec 15, 2025 8:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

ZVR is at least 4 years away and so many pitchers with #2 potential, good stuff, good command go into the minors and struggle.

I’d just like to see some success in short season ball against some top high schoolers and some college guys.

I can see a B- but like joegonzo said, no higher.

by UncleBuck44 on Dec 16, 2025 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Donnie Veal?

does he still qualify after spending all of 2009 on the MLB roster as a Rule 5 guy?

by ScottAZ on Dec 15, 2025 1:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

under 50 ip

by rdf8585 on Dec 15, 2025 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But the time spent on the roster should have exceeded his rookie eligibility no?

by jfish26101 on Dec 15, 2025 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Any idea on where this organization ranks? Top 15? Top 12? Top 10?

It’s an interesting group in that, looking at the list, there are probably 30+ guys who could make a lot of top 20s, although many of them would fall into the back end. A lot of teams might have better top 10s, but how many run as deep?

by ElDuce on Dec 15, 2025 1:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Around 15

Alvarez is really the only impact prospect. They have high upside guys that are very far away and that’s the part of the system that I like (but it obviously has the highest bust potential).

by jar75 on Dec 15, 2025 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What is Lincoln's ceiling?

Some people seem to think he’s an ace ready to go right now, others that he’s just another middle-of the rotation at best kind of guy like the Pirates seem to have a lot of. What’s his realistic peak?

by escroll on Dec 15, 2025 1:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I really don't think anyone sees him as an ace

You’re name has 2k9 in it — what are you some 8 year-old who makes Pillsbury Doughboy cookies and jerks off to that bullshit video game with Tim Lincecum on the cover--
Frederick0220

by Mets2k9 on Dec 15, 2025 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If you read his scouting reports, you'd think ace

but his stats tell a different story. He was dominant for half of 2009 at AA. But was mediocre at AAA after his promotion. He never put up good minor league numbers prior to this year. I’m a Pirates fan and I don’t know what to make of him at all.

by houksyndrome on Dec 15, 2025 8:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

I don’t see ace when I read his scouting reports. I see a guy with a good fastball and a pretty good curve whose lost time really hurt his development. Without a significant improvement in his change up, I’d be surprised if he’s anything more than a third starter.

by jar75 on Dec 15, 2025 8:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

…I think most people would be pretty happy with that..

by WrenFGun on Dec 16, 2025 12:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

When you see his fastball-curveball combo...

some could think ace, but not everyone does. I could see him being a good #2 though.

by joegonzo on Dec 16, 2025 7:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Of course

I’d be happy if he turns into a solid #3 starter. I just don’t read ace when I look at his scouting report.

by jar75 on Dec 16, 2025 8:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jose Ascanio

Does he lose eligibility based on time spent on the active roster, or just passed the prospect stage at this point?

by BobbyS on Dec 15, 2025 1:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

No one...

knows when or if he will be able to come back.

by joegonzo on Dec 16, 2025 7:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Benjamin Pribanic

instead of Harrison…

Solid before & after the SEA trade

by frenchredsox on Dec 15, 2025 2:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

+1

by ThomasG on Dec 15, 2025 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

list

Tim Alderson RHP B-
Pedro Alvarez 3B
Nate Baker LHP
Victor Black RHP
Ramon Henry Cabrera C
Colton Cain LHP
Evan Chambers OF
Jarek Cunningham SS
Chase D’Arnaud INF
Zack Dodson LHP
Wesley Freeman OF
Brian Friday SS
Robbie Grossman OF
Gorkys Hernandez OF
Brock Holt 2B
Jeff Inman RHP
Phillip Irwin RHP
Quincy Latimore OF
Brad Lincoln RHP
Jeff Locke LHP
Brett Lorin RHP
Starling Marte OF
Daniel McCutchen RHP
Jordy Mercer SS
Quinton Miller RHP
Diego Moreno RHP
Bryan Morris RHP
Danny Moskos LHP
Rudy Owens LHP
Brooks Pounders RHP
John Raynor OF RULE 5
Tony Sanchez C
Trent Stevenson RHP
Hunter Strickland RHP
Jose Tabata OF
Ronald Uviedo RHP
Donald Veal LHP
Zack Von Rosenberg RHP
Neil Walker 3B
Justin Wilson LHP

Not a big Pribanic fan.

Aguero looks interesting. But who do I cut to make room? Uviedo?

by John Sickels on Dec 15, 2025 2:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The question about whether Veal should be eligible seems to make him an easy cut.

by jfish26101 on Dec 15, 2025 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

veal

Veal stays in. I saw him in Arizona and he looked terrific.

by John Sickels on Dec 15, 2025 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

veal

he did look good but will he go soft again when he toes the rubber. the young man has looked good several times with the cubs but when it was time for it to matter, well..

by rukiddingme on Dec 15, 2025 8:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't Cut Uviedo

by jar75 on Dec 15, 2025 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

I really like Uviedo. I think he is one of our most under-rated prospects. He converted to a starter this year and pitched pretty well.

by houksyndrome on Dec 15, 2025 8:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

irwin

I’ll cut Irvin in favor of Aguero.

by John Sickels on Dec 15, 2025 2:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Argenis Diaz too

already at AAA at 22 playing “sound” D at SS…. bat is still a lag behind but hit a respectable
.246 /.297 /.286 considering was rushed.Could be a factor in 2010 IF bat translates well & he starts to find some gap power.

by frenchredsox on Dec 15, 2025 2:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Given that he profiles as a utility man and I'm not sure he makes the list.

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 15, 2025 8:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Really like Rudy Owens on this team. Interested to see the grade (I expect B-).

by WrenFGun on Dec 15, 2025 3:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I know that most 2009 draftees don't have any experience yet

and therefore it’s tough to rank them (especially high schoolers), but I love their picks of Colton Cain and Zack Von Rosenberg. I think Huntington is slowly turning this around and making somewhat good decisions (as opposed to strictly “good decisions”).

by lions1 on Dec 15, 2025 3:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I like what he’s done draftwise quite a bit. The hand he was dealt at the major league level in terms of major league talent, farm system, and budget constraints was a pretty tough one to figure out how to play. It really looked like it might be a 7-8 year rebuild in terms of major league team and farm system behind it when he took over and he may have sped that up at least a little. They need to find impact talent with the #2 pick next year, though, and keep attacking the later rounds.

by ElDuce on Dec 15, 2025 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm ready for real baseball again!

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Dec 15, 2025 4:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

my 2 cents

saw mcswain 2x last year. he’s gone from a thrower to a pitcher in one season after having some personal issues last winter. works both sides of the plate, three solid average pitches with a change that’s ranging plus at times, and a gamer. not likely to be more than a middle reliever but has a chance of back of the rotation Duke’ish numbers or better if he doesn’t go soft again.

mcswain over latimore all day long.

agree on freeman. better tools than grossman but not getting any attention from the pirates rovers.

d’naud has some average tools and util down the road.

sanchez will get love from the prospect systems but he rates backup receiver down the road.

saw stevenson and i’d rate him as the best hs arm they took last year though many won’t agree. he’s just further off.

how do you drop ford off knowing he was ko’d with a multiple injuries including some the org didn’t disclose? he has a ml average bat for 2b, a little cannon arm, a little speed, and nice range. he’s their 2b in 2011 if he bounces back.

tabata will get too much love from his afl action. sweet stroke, better d than he had been running, but at the end of the day if he can’t play center…

chambers will be one of that org’s surprises down the road i’d guess. he, morris, lincoln, and alvarez need some love.

not sold on cain or black yet. both have some growing up to do.

by rukiddingme on Dec 15, 2025 8:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

My perspective as a Pirates fan

I am a worrier, so here are my concerns:

Will Alvarez be able to play 3rd? Will he K so much that he won’t be useful?
Will Lincoln’s numbers ever match his scouting reports?
Will Tabata ever hit for power?
Why was everyone so down on Tony Sanchez? He hit for good average AND power at A ball. It seems like people are making too big a deal over past conditioning issues.
Will Alderson’s velocity come back?
How will Owens do against better competition?

Every prospect has question marks. Ours are no different. As I see it, these are the chief knocks against our top prospects.

by houksyndrome on Dec 15, 2025 8:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'm a cynical Pirate fan

-Maybe for a while, but I wouldn’t expect much range. I don’t really have a problem with moving him as I don’t see a competent first baseman in the system. The Ks are a concern, but I like the bat enough where I think he’d a star even at first

-I see a third starter and, while I have nothing to back up this opinion, I fear he may end up as a late inning reliever if he doesn’t improve his change up (but that’s pure speculation).

-I’m skeptical. He should be able to hit for average and play a pretty good RF, but I don’t see him as more than an average big leaguer.

-I still think his bat is a question mark. We have to keep in mind that his numbers were in the SAL. I don’t want to disregard the pre-draft scouting until he hits at higher levels. If he repeats his performance next year in the FSL, I’ll be a much bigger believer.

-It wasn’t just his fastball, his curveball wasn’t as good this year either. There’s a reason he was traded for Freddy Sanchez.

-I like Owens, but we’ll see what happens.

The prospect that’s most impressed me this year has been Chase d’Arnaud.

by jar75 on Dec 15, 2025 8:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What were/are the concerns with Sanchez's bat?

by houksyndrome on Dec 15, 2025 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

per BA

Offensively, Sanchez has solid-average power, but his bat is not a sure thing. He punishes fastballs but struggles mightily against breaking balls, though he’s an intelligent enough hitter to lay off breaking stuff that he cannot hit. He has a mature approach at the plate and excellent makeup on the field and off.

by jar75 on Dec 15, 2025 9:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for.

I have little experience playing baseball, so I may be way off base here. Don’t most players struggle mightily to hit breaking balls? I thought the whole idea was to recognize breaking balls and then lay off of them unless you have 2 strikes and it is gonna be a strike. It sounds like he does a good job of doing that.

by houksyndrome on Dec 15, 2025 9:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

It depends how much he struggles against breaking balls, if he has trouble hitting ones that are thrown for strikes, that’s a pretty big problem even if he lays off the ones out of the zone. I think that’s what the report is saying, but I’m not entirely sure.

by jar75 on Dec 15, 2025 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs