Oscar Taveras and Wil the Thrill

by casejud on Jul 2, 2025 2:36 AM EDT

Since I was told by the "owner" of this website, some person named Ryan Alber (no offense Ryan Alber), that discussing a pretty topical comparison of two of the better hitting prospects in the minor leagues had already been discussed and, he didn't want to hear it, so I thought I'd move it over here.

Anyways, I actually haven't heard the two compared a lot, just wanted to say my peace and, hear what others have to say. I also wanted to see exactly how much of a consensus Will has, in this regard, so do the poll if you'd like.

Anyhoo, Wil is amazing but I don't see a reason that Oscar should take a backseat to any hitter in the minor leagues right now. Comparing him just to Myers, Wil is swatting balls out of the park with great distance and frequency ... but so is Oscar. Oscar is also a year and a half younger than Wil.

Scouting-wise Myers may or, may not, have an edge on his power grade but, I heard a scouting concencus of a "7" on OT's power and that has certainly been backed up visually with some of the shots he has hit, especially lately. I don't see an edge for Myers as a pure hitter either, Oscar makes more contact as well. Defensively, I often hear Myers getting more credit for an advantage over Oscar defensively than I think exists. I think they are very similar here . . . young guys playing centerfield for now, who are probably better suited for rightfield . . . both throw well and, Myers does not run better than Taveras

You might be inclined to take all of Myers 2011 and, toss it out when looking at the two statistically, and I can understand that. Regardless, I don't think it should take away from the remarkable way Taveras has entered the TL as a baby and performed so well and, so consistently. He hasn't even really had a serious slump, which would be understandable.

I'm not a huge "spin" person regarding prospects but, it remains that Oscar has hit better thyan Myers did in the MWL, despite being younger and, has hit better as a AA player as well, despite being younger. . .and I don't see Wil getting anything back on the bases, with his arm, or in the field. I think they are closer as prospects than most may think and, you can probably guess which way I'd lean . . . maybe :)

What do you all think?

Poll

Who do you think will have the better major league career?

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Comments

Similar hit tools, similar power tools, similar defense

Similar ages relative to leagues.

Myers is closer to the majors.

When all things are equal, take the surer thing.

It’s definitely close, but I’ll take Myers.

by dnc on Jul 2, 2025 2:53 AM EDT reply actions

ok

. . you like Myers, that’s fine.

But if Taveras was called to AAA in mid May, then he would be the guy? That seems kind of arbitrary, doesn’t it? Not your pick, just the reasoning.

"The worst things that you say sound better than the best things that some other people say" - Hannah Horvath

by casejud on Jul 2, 2025 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions

If he was called to Triple A and raked like Myers

then I’d probably take Tavares.

As it is, I think they have a similar ceiling, but I think Myers’ floor is a bit higher. I’m a ceiling guy primarily, but when the ceiling doesn’t separate the two, you have to look at the floor.

If Tavares was dominating Triple A like Myers is then I’d argue he probably has a higher ceiling.I don’t see that at this point though.

Also, Myers walks more. I know you don’t think it’s an issue that Tavares doesn’t walk, and I tend to agree. I DO think it’s a plus that Myers does, though.

The only real advantage I give to Tavaras is handedness, but unless he was going to be playing in Safeco or something that’s not really a huge issue IMO.

by dnc on Jul 2, 2025 3:12 AM EDT up reply actions

Factoring out bad luck/injury

When have hitters ever raked at AA and then been stopped at AAA?

by CaptainCanuck on Jul 2, 2025 12:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Ask Vinnie Catricala

Obviously, I’m not forecasting that for Taveras, I’m just saying a guy who is closer is a better bet than a guy who is further away, all other things being roughly equal.

by dnc on Jul 2, 2025 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions

If he's really the only one

That has more to do with Catricala himself rather than the level jump.

Myers is closer, but it’s by like half a year or less and I don’t see that as a huge difference.

by CaptainCanuck on Jul 2, 2025 6:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Delmon?

by pedrophile on Jul 2, 2025 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions

As a Mariner fan, Justin Leone's another obvious one

I’m sure there are plenty of others over the whole spectrum of baseball.

by dnc on Jul 2, 2025 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Also, Jeremy Reed

by dnc on Jul 3, 2025 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions

matt antonelli?

For in depth fantasy analysis be sure to visit the Hawk Fantasy Sports site @ www.HawkBall.com

by PHGold09 on Jul 2, 2025 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions

that all sounds pretty inarguable to me

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jul 2, 2025 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions

You know, after all the jokes/jabs I've made towards/about you

I guess I deserve some in return. Like I said, I hate being “that guy” and wasn’t trying to act like the “owner of minor league ball.com” but I know (think?) you were joking and understood where I was coming from, so I applaud you.

For the record, I voted Myers for the same reason dnc stated above. Have to guy with the guy who is still doing it at the higher level. Yes, the PCL inflates states, but no argument can be made that Myers is in a easier environment than Taveras overall. Got to go with the guy crushing it at the more difficult level. It’s really an undecided question because we haven’t seen Taveras in AAA at all. I’d definitely be willing to change my mind if Taveras crushes in AAA the way Myers has. The age differential is nice, but it’s not big enough to warrant voting against the guy crushing better pitching.

We are all Morban-itnesses.

by Ryne Alber on Jul 2, 2025 3:04 AM EDT reply actions

Not a problem

I honestly forget that people don’t like the daily thread cluttered up sometimes. I ghet on and I either read a rant that is going on, or skip it myslef. Others, it bothers them to have go through somethingh they don’t want to read. My bad. I was just teasiong you a little about it, so thanks for being cool about it.

Oh, and you are wron,g and I am right, about Oscar vs Myers :)

"The worst things that you say sound better than the best things that some other people say" - Hannah Horvath

by casejud on Jul 2, 2025 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Here's a question

If Trout and Harper were still mulling around in AAA, how close would Myers and Taveras be to them?

Knowing what we know now, Harper and Trout are both on a whole other level, but how close are people comfortably putting Myers and Taveras after their hot starts? Whole tier below?

by another know it all on Jul 2, 2025 4:38 AM EDT reply actions

trout? they wouldn't even be in the discussion

Not that I’m dinging Myers and Taveras, but Trout is on a different plane of existence. Like, take the 99th percentile outcome for Oscar Taveras . . .and add on a great glove in center field . . .and 80 speed . . .and a pretty good number of walks. And that doesn’t take into account anything that Trout has done this year. He probably would have been a league average bat last year in the majors if the season hadn’t run out on him.

Harper probably would have been more of a discussion because he’d likely be putzing around AAA not giving a crap. The sabermetrically inclined would have probably jumped to Myers/Taveras (and probably not for the right reasons).

by mrkupe on Jul 2, 2025 7:06 AM EDT up reply actions

Not sure I agree with this totally

I agree that Trouit is amazing … he has Oscar beat with his glove in center field … his 80 speed .. and his walks. However, OT is displaying the same type of amazing things with the bat, at the same age (Trout was two months younger), in the same league. I think Oscar could make a big spash with the bat next season, like Trout is making this one.

By the way, while your premise with Bryce Harper is possible, I think it is more likely that he would be destroying AAA by now. He only played 20 ballgames there and, he doesn’t seem like he is the type of kid to not give a crap, to the contrary.

"The worst things that you say sound better than the best things that some other people say" - Hannah Horvath

by casejud on Jul 2, 2025 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions

Sorry buddy but have to disagree

Trout has shown very good ability to hit fastballs, breaking balls, LHP, RHP, make quality adjustments, has good patience but still very aggressive. OT has great ability to make contact and power. I’m not sure he doesn’t have any weakness though, maybe you can tell me?

IMO Trout and Harper are like Griffey and Bonds. OT and Myers are fantastic but definitely not in that category. OT seems more like a Beltre bat if all goes well.

by pedrophile on Jul 2, 2025 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Without looking, I’d say statwise OT has a similar profile to Vlad, without as much speed as Vlad had at that age.

by rlwhite on Jul 2, 2025 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Thats pretty dang good eh?

"The worst things that you say sound better than the best things that some other people say" - Hannah Horvath

by casejud on Jul 2, 2025 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Except

Vlad had a 51 to 42 walk to Ks in his last year, which was at AA. OT Ks a fair bit more than Vlad. Also Vlad had a 1050 OPS which is quite a bit higher than OT. There might be similarities but it’s not a fair comp IMO.

by pedrophile on Jul 2, 2025 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions

At age 20...

Vlad posted an OPS 252 points above the Sally League.
Taveras is currently 271 points better than his Texas League brethren. (FWIW, I believe Trout was 211 points above the TL last year, when several weeks younger than Taveras is now.)

And Taveras is four months younger in his “age 20” season. A couple of small bonus marks for that. I picked Taveras over Myers less because of ARL, though, than because of his truly unusual ability to hit for extreme power while striking out just 13% of the time. In fact, his power keeps going up every year (relative to his league) while his K rate has dropped from 17% in the Appy, to 15% in the MWL, to his remarkable 2012 numbers. It’s weird and great. Weird + great = hitting prodigy.

by Mekonsrock on Jul 2, 2025 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions

They both played in the AFL last year.

http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=l119&lid=119&t=l_bat

Myers was better, hands down.

The AFL version of the All Star game is called “Rising Stars” and the rosters are selected by the AFL staff and scouts.

Myers was 3-5 with 2 RBI for the winning team, Taveras wasn’t selected to participate.

I can see some people taking Taveras based on stats, but not on tools or projectability.

I know the AFL is a hitter’s league and the sample size is small, but notice Myers walked more than he struck out and tied for the league lead, or that Taveras didn’t walk at all.

by mlbprospectpulse on Jul 2, 2025 8:48 AM EDT reply actions

experience

Myers came into the AFL with more experience, and more was and should have been expected of him.

Taveras entered the AFL as one of the youngest players, with major question marks about how his approach and swing would work against more advanced pitchers. He started slowly and steadily adjusted and learned. The progress Taveras made in the AFL was very exciting to watch.

The AFL stats have to be considered in that context, so they tell us a lot less than you said.

by rlwhite on Jul 2, 2025 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions

Taveras was barely 19 too

With no PAs higher than Low A ball at the time. The original post was too reactionary (in my opinion) & stuck in a moment that has since passed.

I prefer Oscar Taveras here but I think people on either side of the question posed above would have to in good faith at least allow for the possibility that the other side has valid argument too.

by Matt0330 on Jul 2, 2025 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions

True

. . on that last part Matt. However, I am not just going to hand them then valid argument, they should probably have to make it right?

As much as people say that players “don’t develop linearly”, I’m impressed with how often they do. There are so many problems with a com,p of the stats of Myers and Taveras in the AFL that I don’t know where to begin.

Could Myers have done what he did a year and a half ago, when he was Taveras’ age? Does anyone believe that OT wouldn’t kick the AFL’s ass if he went after this season, when he would still be younger than Myers was? Oh yeah and, its 86 exhibition abs vs 75 exhibition abs.

"The worst things that you say sound better than the best things that some other people say" - Hannah Horvath

by casejud on Jul 2, 2025 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions

"Does anyone believe that OT wouldn’t kick the AFL’s ass.."

Wouldn’t surprise me if he repeats…so we’ll see.

by mlbprospectpulse on Jul 2, 2025 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Wait, we are comparing the two based on their AFL performance?

That is ridiculous.

by mr. maniac on Jul 2, 2025 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions

First low A and first AA seasons

Low A:
Myers .289/.408/.500, 19 2B, 1 3B, 10 HR, 10/13 SB 48/55 BB/K
Taveras .386/.444/.584, 27 2B, 5 3B, 8 HR, 1/5 SB, 32/52 BB/K

AA:
Myers .254/.353/.393, 23 2B, 1 3B, 8 HR, 9/11 SB, 52/87 BB/K
Taveras .324/.377/.607, 23 2B, 4 3B, 17 HR, 6/6 SB, 24/42 BB/K

Note that Taveras was younger in both instances. Myer’s SB proficiency looked better before this year and his walk rates were higher. In every other respect, Taveras is superior. Given how much Taveras has improved his all around game, I voted Taveras without hesitation.

by Revilo on Jul 2, 2025 8:59 AM EDT reply actions

Wasn't

Myers hurt in his first AA season? Or am I mistaken?

by kicker31 on Jul 2, 2025 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Yes

You’re not mistaken.

by dnc on Jul 2, 2025 10:05 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions

As OT was at low A.

Which is downright scary.

"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.

by StanTheManFan on Jul 3, 2025 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Apples vs Apples

The above stats say a lot…. Comparing both players when they reached the next level … You are never going to get a fair argument on here with Wil Myers and Oscar Taveras .. Way to many Myers LOVERS on here and Oscar haters .. I love to read where people talk about Oscar’s best case outcome in the bigs, these people have no idea what they are talking about. He will hit for a higher average guaranteed and probably hit for more power than Myers. Look at the strikeouts, look at the AGE DIFFERENCE AND EXPERIENCE. Oscar is just figuring it out now and has much much more upside.

by justinupton on Jul 2, 2025 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah... just ignore that the AA for Myers is while injured and recovering.

There may more people who prefer Myers to OT, but I don’t see a single OT hater on this board. On the contrary, I think almost all would see him as a top 10-15 prospect, if not higher (that’s being conservative). On the other hand, the amount of crap that you spew about these supposed haters and the crap you throw on Myers is absolutely ridiculous in comparison.

by bdlugz on Jul 2, 2025 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions

"I don’t see a single OT hater"

You don’t get it: if you don’t love him, you HATE him! lol

by charles wallace on Jul 3, 2025 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Just curioius

.. trying to find common ground here but, we all know you don’t discuss or like rankings but, is there any point where you acknowledge that any ranking doesn’t make sense?

How about a list with Bryce Harper ranked 53nd best prospect on it?
Or one where Jurrickson Profar is the 82nd best prospect?

There was no list that ranked Oscar higher than 34th on it before this season. I believe he is an all star talent. There aren’t 34 of those in the minor leagues. Why that is such a terrible concept, I don’t know? I didn’t even say anything about like or hate here.

"The worst things that you say sound better than the best things that some other people say" - Hannah Horvath

by casejud on Jul 3, 2025 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions

fwiw, I would be fine with either of those possibilities

The realm of reasonable outcomes is very, very large. If you didn’t believe in Harper’s hitting ability and had skepticism over his numbers/small sample size/minor league statistics in general, such a ranking would be perfectly acceptable.

I realize I’m in the minority when it comes to these things, especially in a world where more often than not, being avowedly “down” on a highly thought of prospect still regrettably means you have him as a top 30 prospect.

by mrkupe on Jul 4, 2025 4:09 AM EDT up reply actions

We just see it differently

. . while I see where you are coming from and, in the end it doesn’t matter, things can happen, we won’t know for years, etc … to me there is no challenge in saying here is a list of guys who may or may not make it. To me making a list is like trying to bat 1.000, it is not possible but it is possible to do your best.

Also, a part of me thinks that if you spend a lot of time looking and studying prospects and you can’t spot Bryce Harpers’, OscarTavera’s, Mike Trouts’, and Brett Lawries’ - live major league stars, in the flesh! It makes me wonder.

To me “not believing in Harper’s hitting ability” and “skepticism over his numbers/small sample size/minor league statistics in general” would be examples of the kind of hurdles one has to get through on the way to the truth when looking at a prospect. In his case not believing would rank very high on the kind of things that are unacceptable and to be avoided amongst amateur evaluators and professionals alike . . . gross errors in judgement :)

"The worst things that you say sound better than the best things that some other people say" - Hannah Horvath

by casejud on Jul 4, 2025 4:45 AM EDT up reply actions

my point is

There is more than one way to evaluate prospects, none of them inherently better than the others. Whether you’re more concerned with athletic ability/“baseball tools” or numbers, there are plenty of successful players to be found along both lines of thinking. Now, are you going to catch EVERYBODY? Nope. But you almost certainly weren’t doing that anyway.

by mrkupe on Jul 4, 2025 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions

i got ya

I don’t think I was espousing a method of evaluating prospects though, maybe just a method of ranking them. i look at results, at context, at age, visula impressions, some outside opinions, anything. The more one does this, the less one should miss a major star I would think. That would be goal number one with a list, I would think: Have the superstars at the top of it.

"The worst things that you say sound better than the best things that some other people say" - Hannah Horvath

by casejud on Jul 4, 2025 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions

Goldstein had him #23, nm

by Revilo on Jul 4, 2025 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions

Also, with your track record you may want to wait on any "guarantees"

by bdlugz on Jul 2, 2025 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Justin Upton's track record?

Fairly disappointing season, sure, but I think he’ll be alright.

by Matt0330 on Jul 3, 2025 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions

Not sure about this Will guy

But I really love Wil Myers. I don’t think it is a stretch at all to suggest his power tool is a full grade higher than Taveras. The contact should be comparable for both, and both should end up as solid RF’s defensively. Myers does run a little better than Taveras as well.

I get that Taveras is younger, but Myers to me just has the better tool set. It’s close, but Myers is the better prospect IMO.

by guru4u on Jul 2, 2025 10:23 AM EDT reply actions

Hmm

i’m not saying you are wrong. I haven’t watched either run a great deal but . . .

They steal the same amount of bases
Oscar hits a lot more triples, 8 per 500 PA’s to 3.5 per 500 for Myers
Will Myers grounds into about twice as many double plays

He may run better, but i don’t see any evidence that he runs better.

"The worst things that you say sound better than the best things that some other people say" - Hannah Horvath

by casejud on Jul 2, 2025 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions

Oscar hype is out of control

Myers is way better and has much better plate discipline.

Not even close

by Bososx13 on Jul 2, 2025 11:16 AM EDT reply actions

Ok, thanks

Aweesome argument.

I see Oscar Taveras with 24 walks in 318 PA’s
Myers with 39 walks in 343 PA’s

I guess I can see your point. Then again, give Oscar another year and a half to get where Wil is.
Also, I guiess the larger point for me is that in the big leagues, the best hitters aren’t just a list of who walks the most.

"The worst things that you say sound better than the best things that some other people say" - Hannah Horvath

by casejud on Jul 2, 2025 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions

Oscar Taveras with 24 walks in 318 PA’s ,Myers with 39 walks in 343 PA’s

Pretty much. Neither guy is mid-aughts Bobby Abreu per se, but what does that have to do with anything by itself?

by Matt0330 on Jul 2, 2025 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions

I don't know

. . you tell me. I just think it says that maybe Myers will have 20 - 30 more walks than Taveras in an average major league season, maybe. i don’t happen to care though. There are a lot of parts to a ballplayer. Taveras doesn’t ground into as many double plays and, he strikes out half as much, for instance.

"The worst things that you say sound better than the best things that some other people say" - Hannah Horvath

by casejud on Jul 2, 2025 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions

I think Oscar is a low top 10 prospect

a very good prospect, but I think Myers is the best or 2nd best prospect in baseball. Walks are one of the most important things for a prospect.

by Bososx13 on Jul 2, 2025 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't believe they are actually

.. but, that’s okay. Oscar knows how recognize a pitch and get into a good count, i think that is more important. i think maintainming ones aggresiveness is more important than drawing walks but, it depends on the player.

"The worst things that you say sound better than the best things that some other people say" - Hannah Horvath

by casejud on Jul 2, 2025 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions

http://www.platoonadvantage.com/2012-articles/march/what-do-minor-league-walk-and-strikeout-rates-tell-us-about-prospects-recap.html

walks are very important for a prospect

by Bososx13 on Jul 2, 2025 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions

by the way just as a hitter

not considering position or anything
I think Oscar is the second best hitter in the minors, so I don’t think he’s a bad prospect at all. I made a comment about how he was too high on a top 100 list a while ago, but I’ve heard from a scout and changed my mind. The only thing holding him back for me is walks, he has everything else down perfect but he needs to walk more.

by Bososx13 on Jul 2, 2025 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm sorry, but I can't let this go.

When you’re 19 years old raking in Double A, your walk rate is meaningless.

by mlbprospectpulse on Jul 2, 2025 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Less meaningful, maybe. But meaningless? Pointlessly hyperbolic.

It all has meaning, whether we know how to interpret it or not.

by charles wallace on Jul 2, 2025 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions

OT has a .377 OBP in the Texas League which ranks ninth.

There are 26 players with more walks, he’s second in hits.

Are you saying you’d rather have a guy second in walks and 26th in hits?

by mlbprospectpulse on Jul 2, 2025 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions

we never get along

.. but he is not saying that

"The worst things that you say sound better than the best things that some other people say" - Hannah Horvath

by casejud on Jul 2, 2025 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions

"Are you saying"

Clearly I’m not saying anything you’re attributing to me. Straw man gets thrown around a lot here as a charge, but you’re on the wanted poster after that. lol

by charles wallace on Jul 2, 2025 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Not the first time I missed the point, or at least part of it, and probably not the last.

The commented posted a link about walk rates.

There was a reference to holding Taveras back as a prospect because he doesn’t walk enough.

If I misinterpreted his intent, sorry.

by mlbprospectpulse on Jul 3, 2025 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions

To say that

any player’s walk rate is meaningless is pure hyperbole. Walks may be less relevant (to you) when considering other factors, but it’s inane to say that they’re meaningless, even (especially?) for a 19-year-old raking in Double-A.

by charles wallace on Jul 3, 2025 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions

"any player’s walk rate is meaningless is pure hyperbole."

You know what they say about assuming?

Hyperbole: "obvious and intentional exaggeration, an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as "to wait an eternity."

My comment was neither.

Taveras is almost five years younger than the league average, he’s in the top ten in most offensive categories, and is coming off a season where he posted the highest league BA in over 40 years.

Why in the name of Mike would anyone give a s*it about his walk rate when considering his status as a prospect?

If he was hitting .226 and leading the league in strikeouts with an OBP around .300, fine, you have to dig deeper to find some offensive value with a future projection.

Taveras is having one of the best offensive seasons of any player, minor or major league, and with three guesses couldn’t come within five of his season walk total.

Because it’s meaningless.

by mlbprospectpulse on Jul 3, 2025 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree with the premise

The other very, um, interesting thing here.. is that his pitch recognition and ability to work a count in his favor are pretty good actually. He walks plenty for someone who doesn’t come up there looking to walk.

I don’t know If C-Dub was trying to make a point about Oscar or, a more esoteric, general point though.

"The worst things that you say sound better than the best things that some other people say" - Hannah Horvath

by casejud on Jul 3, 2025 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions

If OT walked 100 times this year

and had a stellar OBP to go with all his other stellar numbers would you value OT even more? Because if you did then you do care about his walk numbers.

You are creating a strawman. You are trying to change the argument from “walks actually do matter” to “OT isn’t very good because he doesn’t walk enough, even though OT is putting up stud numbers”. The problem is everyone really likes OT. Everyone thinks he is a great prospect. That doesn’t change the fact that he might have a few minor flaws.

If you want to ignore the flaws that’s fine, I agree with you. But if you want to say walk rates don’t matter then you would be incorrect.

Personally I think you need to chill a little and listen to what others say instead of trying to win arguments. Just my 2 cents.

by pedrophile on Jul 3, 2025 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

+1

well said

by dnc on Jul 4, 2025 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions

"Personally I think you need to chill a little and listen to what others say instead of trying to win arguments"

That’s a two way street…

I’m not trying to “win” anything, I just think walk rates are overrated, especially with a guy with a well above league average offensive production.

If you like walk rates personally and value them highly that’s great, I’m not trying to dissuade your beliefs in any way.

by mlbprospectpulse on Jul 4, 2025 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions

there is a big difference between overrated and meaningless

Personally I believe they are overrated as well. It’s why I never liked Weglarz as a prospect.

But they are definitely not meaningless.

by pedrophile on Jul 4, 2025 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions

I'll buy that

by mlbprospectpulse on Jul 4, 2025 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions

Agreed

My personal view is that I love walks in a prospect when they are combined with a great ability to hit, like Jackie Bradley is showing now.

I don’t like it when it seems to me a player is usiing his patience as a crutch and his minor league abs aren;t telling us enough about the weak areas in his swing, just avoiding them. I want to see a young hitter hit minor league pitching!

To me a good hitter must maintain his agressiveness becuase, in the majors, they throw a lot more strikes and, they will exploit you up there Dustin Ackley.

"The worst things that you say sound better than the best things that some other people say" - Hannah Horvath

by casejud on Jul 4, 2025 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions

Yeah

Ackley/Weglarz/…

It’s why I thought that 1B for Oakland was overrated and wouldn’t last. I can’t remember his name, and I’m sure injuries also had something to do with his collapse.

Good hitters must maintain aggressiveness. On the other hand good hitters must be able to have a different 2 strike approach.

Montero terrifies me with his approach. Far too often I’ve seen him have 3 pitch strikeouts where he is taking a huge rip on all pitches. I have seen him be patient at times though, so hopefully he learns some balance.

by pedrophile on Jul 4, 2025 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions

strikeouts are really important too, and Myers strikes out around double the amount Taveras does. Also, factor in age, and remember that Taveras was just 19 in AA to start the year, he only had a 4% BB rate in April, and it was 11% and 7% in May/June.

I don’t think the walk rate is meaningless, but it shows Taveras is adjusting and his eye is improving. If he struck out a lot but wasn’t walking I think it’d be a red flag, but he doesn’t K very much either.

by notsukao on Jul 3, 2025 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions

the walk rate is a yellow flag at the moment

It could be he doesn’t walk much because he is tearing up the league. Let’s see when he gets to AAA how he fares.

by pedrophile on Jul 3, 2025 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions

"I don't care about walks"

When did you turn into Dusty Baker?? :)

by guru4u on Jul 2, 2025 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions

I am proud to not care

i love a guy like JBJ, who controls the strike zone but, in general I think they are really overemphasised and overdiscussed, especially among minor leaguers.

Dusty was an very good big leaguer and, to me, he drew justthe right amount of walks :)

"The worst things that you say sound better than the best things that some other people say" - Hannah Horvath

by casejud on Jul 2, 2025 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions

The not caring about walks comes with Dusty as a manager...

When he said that walks just clog the bases…. yeah, don’t miss him in Chicago.

by bdlugz on Jul 2, 2025 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions

"walks just clog the bases"

Hahahahahahahahahaha. Had not heard that one, and yes, that is the desperate laughter of a Reds fan. Explains a lot about his choices for leadoff duty…

by charles wallace on Jul 3, 2025 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions

All from 2004... all from the same week...

“I think walks are overrated unless you can run… If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps. But the guy who walks and can’t run, most of the time they’re clogging up the bases for somebody who can run.”
—Dusty Baker, Cubs manager (Chicago Daily Herald)

“Who’s been the champions the last seven, eight years? …Have you ever heard the Yankees talk about on-base percentage and walks? Walks help. But you ain’t going to walk across the plate. You’re going to hit across the plate. That’s the school I come from.”
—Baker

“It’s called hitting, and it ain’t called walking. Do you ever see the top 10 walking? You see top 10 batting average. A lot of those top 10 do walk. But the name of the game is to hit.”
—Baker

by bdlugz on Jul 4, 2025 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions

there is a lot he was right on about

The name of the game is to hit. Walks are good, yes. As he mentions in his last point a lot of the top hitters walk, more importantly they do hit. How many guys walk but don’t hit much? And how long do they last?

by pedrophile on Jul 4, 2025 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Taveras this season has a 7.5% BB rate, 13.2% K rate, and .333 BABIP. I don’t see anything unsustainable about that. Given that both players have sustainable approaches, I’ll go with the one that I think will produce more overall. Oscar’s ARL wins it for me.

by rlwhite on Jul 2, 2025 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions

I thought this thread was going to be about Will Clark

by huztler on Jul 2, 2025 12:34 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs

This is much closer than I thought it would be

I figured Myers would win by a fairly big margin.

by sethbeno on Jul 2, 2025 10:05 PM EDT reply actions

Me too

to be honest

"The worst things that you say sound better than the best things that some other people say" - Hannah Horvath

by casejud on Jul 3, 2025 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions

Both awesome

voted Myers, a tad more power (esp. over the fence) and a few more walks.

by PrincetonCubs on Jul 2, 2025 10:53 PM EDT reply actions

I voted Taveras but I'm a Cardinals fan

Here’s the thing… it doesn’t really matter. Think about it this way: Not too long ago Oscar Taveras was a mysterious teenager who had shown some promise in Rookie ball, and was getting buzz among Cardinals fans in-the-know because coaches and other minor league FO people were saying to keep an eye on him (kinda like they have been talking about Breyvic Valera these days). Now he’s one of the very best hitters in the Texas League in his age-20 season. Slugging over .600. This is totally awesome and his fans should rejoice that he has built upon his absurd .386 BA season last year, improving in some respects. Yay! Everybody wins!

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jul 3, 2025 9:19 AM EDT reply actions

I'm willing to concede

Wil Myers is a better prospect than Breyvic Valera.

by Revilo on Jul 3, 2025 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions

Digression,

but Valera popped on my radar recently. What’s the story on his three Double-A games this year?

by charles wallace on Jul 3, 2025 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions

Cop of coffee, more or less

This is based on my recollection of the discussion on Future Redbirds around that time: He looked advanced enough in EST that the org wanted him to get a taste of better competition prior to the start of Batavia’s season. And I believe there were a couple players on the AA roster that were dinged up at the time.

by Revilo on Jul 4, 2025 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions