So far, looks like the "experts" were all wrong - Mazzaro

by Daaron on Jun 2, 2025 11:51 PM EDT Comment 72 comments

Mazzaro, fresh from his last 29+ innings in the PCL where he allowed 1 ER and was POTW for 2 weeks straight, arrived in Chicago tonight and promptly threw 6+ scoreless innings against the white sox. Walks high and Ks low, but it was a pretty good start for a young sinker baller as the ump had a very high k zone.

Pitched between 90 and 96 and was pretty consistently at 94 for the first 4 innings and slowed down to 90 the last couple and was much more effective. 4 pretty good pitches all things considered. Looks like he has the stuff to be very good, but it will probably be some learning to consistenly be very good.

Still a great prospect and it was a shame he was not rated much higher on this board as his numbers last year, age (still just 22) and stuff deserved far more credit. So far, looks like all the so called experts were wrong.

0 recs | Comment 72 comments | Add comment

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

NC

baseball rules.

by doublestix on Jun 2, 2025 11:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

NC

baseball rules.

by doublestix on Jun 2, 2025 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

NC

baseball rules.

by doublestix on Jun 2, 2025 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"the experts"

made a prediction about how he would perform in his MLB debut?

by Galt on Jun 2, 2025 11:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

it helps to actually read the post

before replying to it

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seems like youre drawing a conclusion based on his debut game

qualifying it with “but it will probably be some learning to consistenly be very good” doesnt exactly undermine Galt’s point. Its still just one game.

I argued strongly for Mazzaro to be higher on the community board, too, and I think his performance this year as a whole has opened some eyes… but in the end its still just one game, and he’s still an open question.

by alskor on Jun 3, 2025 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and...

Im not disagreeing. He was higher on my personal board and it was kind of silly how little respect he was getting in some quarters. Clearly underrated, IMO…

by alskor on Jun 3, 2025 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

no argument

The post included the last 29+ innings in AAA with 1 ER and 2 consecutive POTW awards.

He is 4th in the PCL in ERA. I know, not the best barameter, but when added to the work last year it gives a clear indicator that there is some talent there.

Again, no chearleader, but I was just surprised how wrong the “experts” were this winter in the ratings. The stuff is clearly there and so are the results.

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the major reason is the same thing that had people skeptical about Derek Holland

They were both seen as one year wonders - and people just looked at the numbers and thought “Lets see him do it again” - which is a perfectly reasonable position. OTOH, there was ample scouting based evidence outside the statistical record that. for me, solidified their gains. Holland’s jump in velocity was a huge adjustment that marked a real step forward. Mazzaro similarly made adjustments that had scouts and A’s FO/player development people raving.

My big concern with him now is whether he gets squeezed out of the Oakland rotation in the next couple years. Lots of good arms coming up.

by alskor on Jun 3, 2025 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the difference with Mazzaro

is that he always had the stuff, the problem is that he lacked the maturity to consistently battle with each and every pitch, each and every start. He would often leave scouts shaking their head about how a guy with so much stuff perform that badly.

Beginning last year, for whatever reason, the was a major jump in maturity and consistency. That has continued fthis year or the most part.

Reminds me of the story of the advice Schilling got from Clemons and about the step in maturity Schilling took after recieving the advice.

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

NC

baseball rules.

by doublestix on Jun 3, 2025 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Took me a minute

to figure out what this was about. Well played sir.

RIP Nick Adenhart

by gatling on Jun 3, 2025 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

no useful purpose

other than artificially driving up the comment count.

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 12:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sounds like an A's fan is too excited about 6 innings

Who loves orange soda?

by Kenan and Kel on Jun 3, 2025 12:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

long running discussion

earier this spring where I made the case that Mazzaro was very under-rated based on his success at AA last year (AA pitcher of the year at 21).

Just wanted to post a follow-up.

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're right

Anybody can pitch one good game in the big leagues, but he’s still a success story. He has come a long ways since his 2007 season with Stockton when many would have questioned whether he would make it to Triple-A let alone Oakland. It’s great for the A’s that they were able to turn him around, get him to the big leagues and at least get a W out of him.

by sdbaseballfan on Jun 3, 2025 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

6 innings

But a damn good 6 against a tough offense. He could’ve gone 7 or 8 if he wasn’t getting squeezed like he was. When he did miss, they were good pitches.

Overall a very positive start from Vince.

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Jun 3, 2025 12:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ump was at least consistent

considering it was a high zone, the results surprised me. I did not think a young pitcher would adjust so well.

Maybe it was just luck, but if a pitcher has the command to adjust pitch location based on ump k zone, it is a pretty good sign. Maybe ot was just luck.

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The WS are not a tough offense.

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Jun 3, 2025 2:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

A tough offense??? What planet are you from? Bottom 4 in runs and OBP. Second from last in TB. Third from last on OPS. Last in 2B. In the AL. Tenth in HR. All in one of most hitting friendly parks in the league. The Sox have made a habit hitting poorly against rookie starters the last couple of years as well.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

by WayneCampbell08 on Jun 3, 2025 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

like most young pitchers

there will be bumps on the way

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 12:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He was okay

The fastball looks very promising, especially given his ability to put it on the corners of both sides of the plate. I actually didn’t think he was getting squeezed very much, he was just missing very slightly a lot of the time.

I didn’t see much in the way of quality secondary offerings tonight though, and his line backs that up. He didn’t seem to have much confidence in putting anything that wasn’t a fastball in the zone, although his slider and change looked rather passable anyways. He wasn’t really fooling anybody, but the Sox kept hitting it at Oakland fielders.

I still really like him a lot - he does the single most important thing (work the strike zone with his fastball) pretty well for a kid. But make no mistake, he’s got work to do. When you’re only throwing one pitch for strikes, the other guys are going to figure you out eventually.

by mrkupe on Jun 3, 2025 12:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

change looked plus to me

slider looked OK, but nothing special. Needs more bite.

Curve consistently missed. Looks like good movement, but not enough command.

Change was consistently down and in the zone, but was consistemtly called a ball. I think normally this would be a pretty good pitch.

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Be careful

The White Sox are pretty bad against starters they see for the first time. Very common the last couple of years.

"I'm just here to provide street cred"

by Tdogg on Jun 3, 2025 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

change

His average changeup velocity was 85 MPH, so there might not be enough separation from his fastball velocity (average was 91~93) for it to be truly effective. Again, just one start so I don’t want to read too much into it yet.

by jibs on Jun 3, 2025 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Mazzaro zone and the Colon zone weren't the same for the first couple innings

But that could be a case of the veteran getting the benefit of the doubt and the rookie being forced to make his pitches. No big deal.

I think those secondary offerings will be a lot better when he’s not quite so amped up. He was clearly overthrowing for about half the start, and that’s understandable for a guy’s first outing. I think what I liked most was his ability to throw 6 1/3 scoreless despite not being on top of his game.

The Sox might have hit it at Oakland fielders a lot, but there were only 2 or 3 balls they hit hard against him.

by thejd44 on Jun 3, 2025 4:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll give him some credit

His poise was outstanding. Even when he had some runners on, he kept his composure and made quality pitches.

But there’s really no reason why we need to white-wash this outing. There IS a reason why he only struck out one guy and walked 4 over 6 plus, and it’s because he just didn’t have a pitch that he could use to put guys away. Maybe he has one, but you couldn’t have told from last night’s game.

I still really like him but that doesn’t mean I have to like everything about him right away.

by mrkupe on Jun 3, 2025 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re:

The thing that excites me about Mazzaro is that after he walked two in a row in the second, he settled down and faced the minimum number of hitters until he walked Pierzynski in the 7th. Over span of 15 hitters, he allowed 1 single and then erased it on a ground ball. That’s pretty impressive for a rookie in his first start.

by Dfarth on Jun 3, 2025 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's not pencil him into Cooperstown

But impressive 1st start.

The “little 3” can cut there teeth this year and give OAK a nice rotation moving forward.

Maybe it will give BB confidence to gamble on some bats in this draft.

(i am not suggesting 1st will change BB’s draft philosophy, just gives him the realization he has 7 MLB ready arms)

by Bud Light on Jun 3, 2025 1:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

an ace under the radar?

He pitches tomorrow so I could eat these words, but Outman has great stuff and has quietly pitched himself into a very good situation.

Not many would have predicted it before the season, but the guy has plenty of stuff to be whatever he wants to be.

Maybe not an ace, but not a bottom of the rotation guy either.

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 1:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Uh... they were?

How so? How were the “experts” wrong about him? Even if you lump in 29+ IP from AAA - it’s a ridiculous sample size to be making any claims about. He’s not a bad pitcher, but let’s not get carried away here. Most of what I have seen about him is mid-rotation starter. Don’t see how they look remotely “wrong” in that regard. Pitchers that do well in AAA for short stretches and then have good success at the major league level initially are quite common.

Go look at someone like Vicente Padilla before you get over-excited long term.

by slurve on Jun 3, 2025 7:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

reading 101

Actually my sample size included AA pitcher of the year in 2008 at age 21.

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

I don’t see jack-shit about AA and/or POTY?

I got your Reading 101 swingin’ jagnuts. Maybe you should back and revise your post to actually say that. Dipshit.

by slurve on Jun 3, 2025 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Reading 102

His “numbers last year” comment was written very clearly. That you chose to say something completely uninformed was your choice.

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Writing 070

Like others have pointed out, there are at least 6 others that have interpreted your post differently than you intended. That is a failure in your writing to convey a point, which is a weak one to begin with - with or without last years numbers.

by slurve on Jun 3, 2025 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Success!!

I made my response 2 very short sentences so you could understand it.

Your response was no more informed, but at least you read the complete post.

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

wish you were ...

in my fantasy league. i’d abuse you. you’re getting excited about one good start? puuuuhhhlease….anibal sanchez pitched a no-hitter….bud norris did, too, if i recall. as did jose jimenez…..let’s not get too excited about what one pitcher does in one start. this might be one of the dumbest threads i’ve ever read. the comments are constructive but the thread itself is moronic.

by psugator on Jun 3, 2025 9:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

READING 101

I will correct your post:

“This is one of the dumbest threads that you have ever partially read and did not understand and about which made a comment that was utterly moronic.”

Much more accurate.

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is a non story

Becuase of his 6 innings the experts were wrong in the projection?? Do you know how many players you could say that about?

OK, 35 innings this year in total? So what? His stuff screams mid rotation guy.

You are trying to make him into Tommy Hanson or Bumgarnder. Just stop already.

by jsmall404 on Jun 3, 2025 11:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'll find it funny

When Mazzaro is better than BUMgardner………..Hanson will be by far the best of these three, but I just don’t like Madison

Go A's!!!

by stephanc101 on Jun 3, 2025 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

reading 101

Don’t think I mentioned either in my post. Exactly which post were you referring to?

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey guess what

When everyone interprets your post “the wrong way”, maybe, just maybe, it’s you who was unclear or reactionary rather than everyone else on the planet being wrong.

Just maybe.

by Galt on Jun 3, 2025 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

interesting you would use this side thread to make this point

as I clearly did not mention Hanson or anyone else as a comparison.

No, I was clear enough, just the egos involved do not like to have their errors pointed out.

To be honest, I was fully expecting this response and while I could have been more clear, the post was clear enough to convey the message, as those with thoughtful response have clearly demonstrated.

So in response, not “everyone” has interpreted the post the way you did.

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

really?

You’ve posted a “reading 101” snide remark to about 5 people, all of whom are making the same comment on the fact that you chose to say scouts were wrong about the guy, coincidentally immediately after his MLB start.

by Galt on Jun 3, 2025 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Daaron

No, you did not compare him to either of those guys. But, the whole feel of your post (and the last one about Mazzaro) is that he is not getting enough respect as a #3 SP or on some stupid prospect list.

Well, he aint a freaking #1 (like Hanson or Bumgarder) so I dont know why you feel the need to keep bringing it up.

by jsmall404 on Jun 3, 2025 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mr. 30 samples is enough data

You are that guy. Admit it.

How would you know what he projects to be? Is it his lack of stuff? A fast ball that sits consistently at 94 says otherwise. Lack of secondary pitches. Ozzie said his CU was great last night. Do you know more about CUs than Ozzie?

Lack of production? The guy was AA pitcher of the year at 21.

So what about the guy says that you know where he projects? Nothing because you do not know what you are talking about.

I don’t now where he projects or evn if he will be a successful major leaguer. What I do know that there were guys considerably above him in the community prospect list (A’s prospects included) that do not have his stuff or track record.

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lets see

how about thats what EVERY expert says he will be???? are you an expert?

WTF do u think ozzie will say?? yeah we just got dominated by a guy with shitty stuff?? of course he is gonna say he was great. duh.

geez get your head out of the sand.

by jsmall404 on Jun 3, 2025 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

are these the same experts

that discounted 2008 as an aberation?

FB that can be cranked up to 96 when he needs it and as a 21 year old, AA pitcher of the year and the guy can’t even come close to cracking the top 50 prospects.

Seems pretty odd.

But no odder than your 30 consecutive samples makes a good enough data set for a reliable prediction.

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

what prediciton??

I never made a single prediction mr. reading 101

by jsmall404 on Jun 4, 2025 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

of course you did

In this thread:
You made a prediction that Mazzaro would not be a No 1.
You made a prediction that Mazzaro is a No 3

Previously you made a prediction that by not pitching well for 30 innings at the end of the year last year clearly means that he would even be a middle of the rotation guy.

You make all kinds of predictions.

by Daaron on Jun 4, 2025 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep, really

The lack of reading skills comes mostly from those whose ego does not allow for anyone to point out their mistakes. It causes a knee jerk reaction that occurs long before they finish the post.

It was why I chose to use both “wrong” and “Mazzaro” in the subject. Actually re-wrote it several times to get the desired effect.

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you re-wrote it one time too few

When everyone is against you; there’s a reason.

by Galt on Jun 3, 2025 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

there certainly is

it is called the inability to admit being wrong.

It is very simply to say, but the “experts” on board here don’t seem to have that ability.

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

reading 101

based on AA pitcher of the year in 2008.

Weren’t you the guy who ranted on and on this spring how 30 innings was sufficient sample size. You were, that’s right.

You made a fool out of yourself over and over about how 30 innings was suffucient sample size when you have no clue about the difference between sample size and random sampe size.

You are actually the most ignorant statistics person I have seen on the net. You know even less about statistics than I do, and I did not think that was possible. Yet you consistenly spout off about “sample size” as if you know what you are talking about.

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t 6 innings an even smaller sample size than what you’re ridiculing him for? Sound pretty hypocritical to me.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

by WayneCampbell08 on Jun 3, 2025 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK

Yes, you are wrong if you think that I said he was a great prospect based on 6.1 innings of data.

Does that make you feel better?

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

funny since

you decide to post the first time about him after his best spring training start, then you post about him now.

Did we post about him when he gave up 12 hits in 4 innings?

no one is saying he sucks, but you are making a big deal about nothing

by jsmall404 on Jun 3, 2025 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes you did post that day

and no one responded.

Of course you did not mention the 30 mph wind blowing out on the same day that nearly every other Cactus league pitcher (Lackey et all) got mashed due to the high winds making pop-ups home runs.

Funny you would mention it though.

But I still want you to re-state your famous statistical theorem that states 30 consecutive innings make up a valid sample.

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

no

mr reading 101..i said getting shelled for 30 consecutive innings might indiciate that he dosent have elite level stuff like you were trying to portray.

by jsmall404 on Jun 4, 2025 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

revisionist

You were very difinitive and conclusive about the projections based on 30 consecutive innings at the end of the year. You even included election based sample sizes to reinforce your opinions. There was no “might indicate” about your comments.

Don’t try to lie your way out of your clearly uninformed statements.

by Daaron on Jun 4, 2025 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"experts" werent wrong

but i do notice at times a bias or more attention to other prospects on here. mazzaro was definitely underrated on the lists and there are skeptics out there. I remember rangers fans posting on here hyping up hollands debut, call up…mets fans doing the same for niese, there was just last week a buzz about david hernandez callup/debut. BA chat last week mentioned mazzaro possibly being better than bowden…who i know has gotten media/prospect attention and even untouchable in certain trade talks.

Anyways, i do like how the A’s rotation has come together lately with cahill/anderson/mazzaro/braden/outman and bailey at closer. potentially a solid group, now if only gio/gallagher/simmons can get going and join the party.

by Asfan4ever723 on Jun 3, 2025 12:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

lightning rod

It just seems that some guys are a lightning rod for criticism and are easy to under-rate.

I have mentioned several times that any other guy that could sit at 94MPH and was AA pitcher of the year at 21deserved to be higher rated than this community rated.

by Daaron on Jun 3, 2025 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

by DSamonek on Jun 3, 2025 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

NC

baseball rules.

by doublestix on Jun 3, 2025 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

for whatever its worth

oziie guillen’s comments last night
Post-game said Mazzaro had the best stuff of any of the pitchers they faced for the first time 09. White sox have been 1-5 vs first time starters. Talked about his fastball movement and change up being impressive. I havent checked who those other starters have been.

by Asfan4ever723 on Jun 3, 2025 2:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs