Overall Community Prospect #1
by auclairkeithbc on Nov 7, 2025 2:33 PM EST
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The first overall community prospect will be determined by a head-to-head match-up between the winner of the positional poll (Bryce Harper - 59.2%) and the winner of the pitcher poll (Matt Moore - 91.0%). Harper and Moore are your only choices and any vote for some other player will not be counted.
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by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Nov 8, 2025 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
I had an idea to tweak the way we run this overall poll (after the top 10 is determined)
A problem we ran into last year, that many times was expressed, was that sometimes neither of the two candidates were very appealing to the voters. The hitting or pitching candidate may have won with 25% support, and maybe there was a tie-breaker with a big difference of opinion on who should win that runoff. Often times in the overall poll, people were voting against someone instead of for someone, and sometimes there was a type of strategic voting that occurred or spite voting. Some people lost interest in the process because of this.
My suggestion (after determining the top 10 the same way as last season), would be that any time we have a run-off in the positional or pitchers poll, AND the run-off is a close one (55-45 or something like that?), we move BOTH players from the runoff to the overall community prospect poll to be voted on as a group. So if Dylan Bundy and Drew Pomeranz end up in a tight tie-breaker for pitcher #8 let’s say, we would move them both together to be voted on against a hitter (or hitter duo if the case happens on the positional side), for let’s say overall prospect #16. The choice would be Bundy/Pomeranz or Will Myers (for example) for prospect #16. If Bundy and Pomeranz side wins, then Bundy goes on as #16 overall and Pomeranz as #17 overall.
This will be easy to keep track of, and I think it will help people make a decision which more accurately reflects the true view of the community. I am NOT going to do this unilaterally, if people are against it. It is just a suggestion, that has had a decent amount of support in other threads. Let me know what people think.
by auclairkeithbc on Nov 7, 2025 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
why does Pomeranz get voted in
automatically as #17 in your scenario, and Wil Myers as #18? isn’t it possible people would prefer Myers over Pomeranz in that situation, while still thinking Bundy is deserving of #16?
by blue bulldog on Nov 7, 2025 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
That is the very point of the rule.
When a run-off can’t demonstrably decide who the community favorite pitcher is between Bundy and Pomeranz, they should probably be seated next to each other in the overall poll as well, as long as we want to get an accurate sense of the community.
But that is actually only half the reason I like the change. The other part is reflected in your response. Many times the winner of a run-off has very very strong negatives as well. And those negatives lead to what I can spite votes, or “stick to my guns” votes in the overall poll, which are actually just honest votes for the other player in the poll. This is inevitably going to happen over and over again, when the voting in a pitcher/positional poll is a really close one with neither one getting anywhere near 50% in the original poll before the runoff and where the runoff itself is close. Grouping the two players together SHOULD greatly diminish the negative votes. People will take the average of Pomeranz and Bundy (which is truly the community’s opinion of the best remaining pitcher), and weigh that average vs. the next hitter, Myers in this example, but it could be a hitter group of Myers and D’Arnaud if those two end up in a tight race.
The point is we should be voting on whether the consensus view of the next best hitter or the consensus view of the next best pitcher should be ranked higher overall. When there is no clear cut winner of a pitcher or positional poll, we don’t end up with a consensus (or even remotely consensus) candidate, and it happened A LOT last year, and people complained about it A LOT, and lost interest as well.
by auclairkeithbc on Nov 7, 2025 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
I have to say
this sounds like a horrible idea to me. The only way I could see that working is if Pomeranz then won the next pitching poll, otherwise he shouldn’t appear just because he and Bundy had a close runoff. There would be plenty of times where a third player could win the following poll because he finished third behind Bundy/Pomeranz and a significant portion of the Bundy voters prefer him to Pomeranz. Trying to be too cute with the polls opens it up for even bigger issues than what you’re trying to solve.
Just my two cents on the matter.
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by gatling on Nov 7, 2025 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
I think it is the opposite of cute
It is just a basic acceptance of the community consensus. Anytime someone says “I would have voted for Pomeranz here, but I’ll vote for Myers because Bundy, who sucks, beat out Pomeranz,” is proof that the system is broken. When people don’t accept that Bundy is better than Pomeranz (if that is what the consensus voting proves), then the whole system breaks down.
by auclairkeithbc on Nov 8, 2025 1:40 AM EST up reply actions
Or it could simply mean
that there is a vocal group of supporters for one player, Pomeranz in this scenario. I just don’t see any value in this idea at all, and I hope that you aren’t going to implement it without a lot of support for it.
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by gatling on Nov 8, 2025 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
We'll see
Down the road if people start complaining like last year. A simpler version of my idea would be to just pair hitters or pitchers up every time the next pitcher or hitter in the queue was a weak winner, like under 25%. The “problem” that we had last year (and you I think - maybe others - disputed that it was a problem at all), was a player with 22% support in the original open hitters poll going against someone with 19.5% support in the original pitchers poll. Or a 22% hitter going against a clear cut winning pitcher. Time after time, people said they didn’t like either choice, and basically didn’t care which player they hated got on next, or that they were voting for a pitcher because they specifically disagree with the consensus view of the next best hitter (even though that voter thought the next 5 hitters after the one he disliked were all far superior to the pitcher). We’ll see. Maybe it won’t happen like that this year. But I think it is good to think of active ways of solving the issue.
by auclairkeithbc on Nov 8, 2025 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
By the way
“We’ll see” doesn’t mean that I would ever consider implementing this idea without a good deal of support. It just means, we’ll see if the same problems that occurred last year, occur again.
by auclairkeithbc on Nov 8, 2025 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
People are always going to complain about something
It’s just the way it is. I see multiple problems with your idea right off the bat, without putting it into practice. In this scenario you’re wanting to go ahead and slap Pomeranz in as the next pitcher when there isn’t a guarantee he would win the next pitchers poll. If you wait and he does win and you pair him with Bundy vs. Myers, you don’t end up knowing how many people would actually prefer Myers to Pomeranz because you’re not giving them that option.
If it solved the problem entirely, I’d be all for it. I don’t feel this idea does that, it just creates a different problem, a different way for people to complain about how made the list over the guy they like better.
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by gatling on Nov 8, 2025 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe so
I don’t think anything can solve the problem completely. I just want to see some ideas on how to fix something that was clearly a big negative to a lot of people last year. The “problem” as I see it comes down to people not accepting the results from the community pitcher/positional lists. And my idea doesn’t even perfectly address that problem, quite honestly.
The point is, if the next 4 players on your overall board are all hitters, and you vote for a pitcher in the overall poll because you don’t like the community consensus that there is another hitter that is getting on the list before them who you don’t like at all, then you are messing up the overall poll and skewing the results, and more importantly causing people to dislike the whole setup.
by auclairkeithbc on Nov 8, 2025 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Harper > Moore
I went with Harper over Moore for the sheer fact that Moore throws a baseball for a living and that makes him a riskier pick, even though at the current time, he is the better player and the upside if very high with him (though I don’t think its quite as high as the one with Harper).
by dougdirt on Nov 7, 2025 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
Moore's upside
His ceiling when all goes well is cy-young caliber pitcher, and it is not that far away.
by Patrick Relano Kim on Nov 7, 2025 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
I truly and honestly hate the methodology in this polling system.
That’s all. I discussed an alternate idea in the discussion thread, but this system is so, so bad.
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by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 7, 2025 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly I think your methodology was worse
Some people will obviously manipulate their ballots in order to try and get their favorite prospect on earlier (something you can’t really do in the current system) and it makes it much more likely for a players to end up ranked differently in order than what the overall site consensus is because of the whole ballot thing. What do you not like about the current methodology?
by nixa37 on Nov 7, 2025 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree with the logic of this critique
If people wanted to vote dishonestly to get their favorite players on, they could do so just fine under the current scenario.
Lets not get too carried away with worrying about defensive votes. We’ve already addressed the single worst contributor to dushonest voting, and that has been by temiving the anonymity of a poll.
by siddfynch on Nov 8, 2025 3:03 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not at all true
You vote for one person in the current setup. There is no way to hurt the chances of the other guys up against your favorite prospect. Using his methodology, people will clearly leave deserving candidates off their multiple player ballots in order to keep their overall points lower. If you can’t see how one system is much more open to manipulation than the other than I don’t know what else to tell you.
by nixa37 on Nov 8, 2025 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
Probably a dumb question but why can't we vote in the SBN poll feature?
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by miketrout on Nov 7, 2025 6:19 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Ballot stuffing
Way to easy for people who aren’t even members of this site to vote over and over again for the prospect that plays for their favorite team.
by nixa37 on Nov 7, 2025 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
I guess. It'd be easier to track and tally though
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by miketrout on Nov 7, 2025 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
And extremely inaccurate
We had major issues with ballot stuffing for a few years. It’s totally worth manually tabulating the votes instead of dealing with that nonsense.
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by gatling on Nov 7, 2025 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
+1
I was there and, me and Gat here agree on almost nothing else :) I hate even havibg to talk about ballot stuffing. This may not be eye pleasing but, it is way better. I also like seeing who voted which way as well. Its interesting.
By the way, I had an idea for tallying - a simple one. Can we just count the nunmber of our vote and note it when we vote? People only have to do it when they have time and, even if one person miscounts the votes, the next person who does it would be double-checking. Just an idea, If it helps.
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by casejud on Nov 8, 2025 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
Good idea tallying the votes below our +1
by cookiedabookie on Nov 8, 2025 9:18 AM EST up reply actions
You mean it was ballot stuffing that led Tim Alderson to crack the top 20?
Or wherever it was the legions of Giants fans managed to get him on. I think that was more first offseason around these parts and I was so confused by the choices for the community list.
by nixa37 on Nov 8, 2025 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
We actually had multiple fanbases doing that
The Rangers SBN site had a post urging people to come here and vote for someone. A’s fans ballot stuffed for Brett Anderson. Either Rockies fans or anti-A’s fans ballot stuffed for Dexter Fowler against Brett Anderson. It was awful.
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by gatling on Nov 8, 2025 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
+1
The ballot stuffing was ridiculous back in 2008 I believe.
by cookiedabookie on Nov 8, 2025 9:17 AM EST up reply actions
I Can't Believe It's This Close
Everybody knows Moore is a pitcher, right?
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by rwperu34 on Nov 7, 2025 8:10 PM EST reply actions
And?
So, the typical pitcher is more likely to get injured than the typical hitter, who cares? We’re dealing with one instance within that class, and this player has a particularly clean delivery that has almost no effort. He has tremendous stuff with increasingly improving command. He is a very good bet to turn into an inning eating top of the rotation starter with the potential to be a true ace. Matt Moore is my #1 prospect, and I didn’t have think twice about it.
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by Jeff Reese on Nov 7, 2025 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
That's a nice general rule
but I don’t think you use it to always play it safe. Sometimes you make exceptions, take the chance. And let’s not pretend that being #1 or #2 is so different in value anyway. Both top tier players, as is Trout and to quibble over their exact ranking seems a bit pointless to me.
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by t ball on Nov 8, 2025 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
znt
as much as I totally agree with your first point - exceptions, taking a chance - yes!
I completely disagree with there being little difference in 1 and 2. Historically, in the amateum draft, there is no bigger difference than between the top pick and, the second.
It sometimes seems poiiuntless because it IS. We aren’t drafting. If we were, it would be absolutely vital to get the best player or, one of the best, with the first pick. To me, that is the excersize that makes listing players interesting at all. Some people just don’t care and, that is cool too.
" I too love everthing that flows: rivers, sewers, lava, blood, bile, words, sentences . ." - Henry Miller
by casejud on Nov 8, 2025 1:39 AM EST up reply actions
I simply meant
that there are three guys here on the top tier, and then a dropoff. Yes, again, on average year to year there is a dropoff from 1 to 2, but we’re not talking about a hypothetical year.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
by t ball on Nov 8, 2025 8:17 AM EST up reply actions
I Think You Mean
There are two guys and a pitcher, then a dropoff:)
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by rwperu34 on Nov 8, 2025 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
No
a Pitcher, two guys, then a dropoff. :)
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
by t ball on Nov 9, 2025 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
Brand new idea (i think)
the only problem with this method is the man power required to compile it, so its an undertaking but one that i think will give us the truest sense of where people fall…..
After we do top 5 positional and top 5 pitching, we have everyone rank from 1-10 that group of 10 players… a first place vote is 10 points, a second is 9 and so on…. then we tally it all up, and the top 5-6 point getters will be listed in order, and then the bottom 4-5 go into the next grouping of ten (always 5 hitters 5 pitchers)
this way we have a definitive ordering of players without it going pitcher hitter pitcher hitter etc or someone not liking the options infront of them
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by PHGold09 on Nov 8, 2025 2:26 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I like it
. . . personally but, I think it’d mean less votes. It’d make it harder to tally but, I like the idea a lot. Even if it were top 5 or, even 3, it would add a bit of varyance and discussion to the voting and be almost a buiklt0-in tester system. I think its a good idea but, we’ll see if it can actually get implemented.
" I too love everthing that flows: rivers, sewers, lava, blood, bile, words, sentences . ." - Henry Miller
by casejud on Nov 8, 2025 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am open to doing whatever people want but...
I think we might see a pretty big drop-off in participation, especially as this prospect list wears on. Some people won’t want to list 10 players, or even 5. It also doesn’t give people a extended period of time to change their minds as they read more debate. This isn’t too impactful with top 10 lists, but when you get to the 33rd hitter, most people will not really have a definitive sense of who the next 10 should be. Lot of times we’ve seen people change their minds, and go from supporting one player to another at the #1 option even.
by auclairkeithbc on Nov 8, 2025 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
i think you are overestimating impatience
with a ranking of ten i think it gets done pretty well, rankings of larger than 20 become arduous and difficult to differentiate, but when you are ranking 5 hitters 5 pitchers, you get a chance to move them more freeformly than when we had a chance to just +1 a single player….
not to toot my own horn, but im really proud of this idae
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by PHGold09 on Nov 8, 2025 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
The more work you ask people to do
the less participation you are going to get in this type of thing, especially the deeper you go into the polls. Lots of people complained about having to take the time to make an actual “+1 post” vs. just clicking an option in the standard type poll, plenty would complain(or just not participate) if they were asked to rank groups of 10 players consistently.
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by gatling on Nov 8, 2025 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think the benefits of doing it this way outweigh the loss in participation
I have to agree with you auclair.
I am not quite sure that what this is trying to fix is so broken as to need such a radical solution, in my opinion. I had mentioned in the discussion before we started of posting four candidates in the overall prospect list, the next two pitchers and positional prospects. I think this may help with the perceived issue without creating too many other problems. The only problem any of these solutions have is that candidates could be higher on the overall list than they were on the split list.
by cookiedabookie on Nov 8, 2025 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
i rec'ed
cause you liked my idea hahaha :)
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by PHGold09 on Nov 8, 2025 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Thx Bud :)
" I too love everthing that flows: rivers, sewers, lava, blood, bile, words, sentences . ." - Henry Miller
by casejud on Nov 8, 2025 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
I'm closing this poll
With 56.9% of the vote, Bryce Harper is the winner.
by auclairkeithbc on Nov 8, 2025 3:12 PM EST reply actions
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