Discussion Question: Saving the Houston Astros
If you had the ear of the Astros braintrust, and you could get them to do ONE thing starting tomorrow, what would it be? Can you turn this season around? NOTE: the One Thing can't be "blow up the whole roster."
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Sell the team to someone who understands rebuilding.
yeah, i know, epic cop out.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
by Blicks on Apr 14, 2025 11:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Play the young guys & trade the vets
For example, give Chris Johnson PT over stopgaps like Pedro Feliz.
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by Gobroks on Apr 14, 2025 11:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This season?
not a chance, unless that one thing is to secertly swap teams with the Yankees or something , or magically acquiring Hanley Ramirez.
by RollingWave on Apr 14, 2025 11:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Trade Oswalt, and maybe Pence
Does anyone else on this team really even have value? Deal them and hope the Orioles don’t beat you out for Rendon.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
by James F on Apr 14, 2025 11:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Somewhat agree
Keep Pence. What could you fetch for Oswalt, Carlos Lee & Berkman? Maybe Blum, Feliz, & Lyon as well.
The future is not too gloomy:
They’ve got Towles and/or Castro at catcher.
Chris Johnson at 3B.
Jio Mier
An OF of Pence, Bourn & something else.
Decent bullpen options in Lindstrom, Gervacio & Chia-Jen Lo
Jordan Lyles, Bud Norris, & Wandy
The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. It reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.
by Savoy on Apr 14, 2025 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oops
Meant to say decent young rotation starting with Lyles, Norris, & Wandy
The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. It reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.
by Savoy on Apr 14, 2025 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know Wandy sounds like a young man's name
But he’s already 31, by the time Lyles is a league-average starter or better (2013?) Wandy will be 34.
by two fishsticks on Apr 14, 2025 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he's a free agent this year, if I'm not mistaken.
by Fanon on Apr 15, 2025 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
one more year after this
So if you’re going to trade him, now is the time.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Apr 15, 2025 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last year
was the time to trade all these guys. Now many of them can’t be moved.
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by alskor on Apr 15, 2025 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I get
I deserve that for not doing my research. . . Hey wait—if that’s the case, maybe I actually COULD work for the Astros!!!
The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. It reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.
by Savoy on Apr 15, 2025 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ehhh
it takes some luck for one of them to turn into a Berkman level hitter though, the really sad thing about the Astro is that Berkman and Oswalt are borderline HOF talents but the Astro manage to do abosalutely nothing with them. there’s a very significant chance that non of the current Astro prospects turn into anything close to those two.
by RollingWave on Apr 14, 2025 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't move Berkman...
….I suppose you could get something for Lee if you pay his contract. But I don’t see the point in keeping Pence.
I don’t think that is a very strong core you’re mentioning there. Towles and Johnson aren’t going to be stars. Castro and Mier might end up being strong pieces (let’s not go crazy on 19 year olds on a half season of play) but aren’t sure things or certain all stars. None of this group can match young players in the division like Rasmus, Bruce, Gallardo, Braun, Chapman and Alvarez.
I think dealing Pence is essential to get the kind of top prospects a young hitter like him can bring, and to give them depth and ceiling to surround those prospects that you mentioned.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
by James F on Apr 15, 2025 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
Wandy probably could yield a decent return as well, and seeing as he’s old-ish already they should just ship him off.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Apr 15, 2025 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's also cheap
So they might get a decent return for him. They probably should have moved him in the offseason though.
by Fanon on Apr 15, 2025 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Notice I didn’t say this was a division winning team—I simply said the future didn’t look too gloomy.
At least they do have a few young pieces they can work with.
The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. It reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.
by Savoy on Apr 15, 2025 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Pence and Bourn...
by joegonzo on Apr 15, 2025 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oops
Meant to say decent young rotation starting with Lyles, Norris, & Wandy
The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. It reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.
by Savoy on Apr 14, 2025 11:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
there is no immediate answer
Drayton needs to sell this team.
I would listen to deals on all players with more than 3 yrs service time. It is probably most important to trade Oswalt and Berkman. I think if they ate about 65% of Lee’s salary he is actually a trade asset.
Maybe if they trade some salary they may actually be able to draft the best available player in their 3 top 33 picks…. or pay more than 200,000 for an intennational player(I read somewhere they have never done that).
There is no help in the next few years. Basically every move the Astros have made since 2005 has been the wrong decision.
The frustration level is very high in Houston
My first mistake was assuming you knew what I was talking about.
by Shamus on Apr 14, 2025 11:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And yet....
Ed Wade still gets an extension for his handiwork….
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
by Taskmaster on Apr 15, 2025 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its not all his fault, done a decent enough job drafting (like he did with the phils)
but he’s still not deserving of that extension and he’s certainly not really helping out
Feliz says his greatest thrill was striking out Boston Red Sox DH David Ortiz, one of his heroes. Yet, when he called to tell his parents, his mother had a request: Strike out New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez, too.
"So when I did that," Feliz says, "I told my mom, 'There you go. There's your present. Don't ask me to strike anyone else out, OK?'
by blalock84 on Apr 16, 2025 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not convinced yet
Castro may be good, but I have fears that he may be pushed too hard due to the desperation of the club. That’s more indicative of a weak farm system than anything. They are still a consensus bottom 5 farm system, so I don’t know how you can say they have drafted well when their only big prospect is Castro, who was a first rounder (Picked over Smoak by the way).
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
by Taskmaster on Apr 16, 2025 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously one move isn't going to turn things around
If you’re tied to only one move though, it has to be upping the draft/IFA budgets(ideally taking the money you spend on guys like Feliz and Lyon and redirecting it). Break slot and draft high upside talent. Be a player in the international marketplace. Build up the farm system so you can compete in the future. The organization has shown it will spend to retain it’s own talent and will make a big move on the FA market, but you need that young cost controlled talent coming up to keep the process churning.
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by gatling on Apr 14, 2025 11:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
They also have to stop trading away their talented minor leaguers for mediocre veterans too.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Apr 15, 2025 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Houston’s a fairly big media market and they might be able to get away with fielding a mediocre team like this one for a few years if they spent time and money on building the farm system quickly.
I’d add in trading Oswalt, Bourn and Rodriguez as well as some of their bullpen pieces. You can get a good return for those guys and you still keep a future franchise cornerstone in Hunter Pence. I’d even lock Pence up longterm, but only if Wade is willing to blow up the roster and begin rebuilding tomorrow.
"[M]aybe he’s hoping we’re distracting each other while he elopes with pie. I’m on to you Kurt."- madpoopz
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by demondeaconsbaseball on Apr 15, 2025 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fire Ed Wade and bring in a modern GM.
Someone in the Jack Z mold.
by jar75 on Apr 15, 2025 12:11 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
+1
The team construction here was terrible. All their money is tied up in bad, aging players.
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by alskor on Apr 15, 2025 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which Ed Wade isn’t responsible for. Yeah the Matsui and Lyon signings were terrible. But with the budget straints the guy has, he hasn’t done that bad. No, he’s not a modern GM but he hasn’t had the opportunity to really do what he wants with a team in Houston.
by Subber10 on Apr 15, 2025 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn't get it
They may have a tight budget, but that doesn’t excuse him. It just makes it more crucial that someone is brought in who won’t spend money on Lyon, Matsui and Feliz.
by jar75 on Apr 15, 2025 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thats the thing most people don’t realize. He has that money to spend on the current roster. Even if he doesn’t use it, that money doesn’t get re-allocated to the draft or next years budget. Thats just how Drayton works. That man won’t change. So he might as well spend it. Feliz isn’t a bad signing. Yes, he did it way too early in free agency. But, he is still a good defender and so far one of the better bats in the lineup. I admitted that Lyon and Matsui are bad signings because they are overpaid for slightly above replacement level players in their better years. But, 2 signings in 3 years ain’t bad. Most GM’s do that. He inherited a organization in complete disaster, but he is rebuilding through the draft while making an attempt to seem to try and compete. Its an attempt that isn’t working, but there wasn’t much more he could do.
by Subber10 on Apr 15, 2025 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
Even if that is how it works (and it wouldn’t really surprise me), that doesn’t make those deals anything other than terrible. Those players are not good anymore.
Feliz, at one point in time, had enough defense to make him valuable, but I don’t think he does anymore. As for his bat? One of the best in the lineup? I didn’t realize how bad Houston actually was then. His wOBA for the last 5 seasons:
2005: .307 (615 PAs)
2006: .299 (644 PAs)
2007: .304 (590 PAs)
2008: .306 (463 PAs)
2009: .302 (625 PAs)
His start to 2010 has followed this trend. His bat is awful. I’d rather have Joe Crede than Pedro Feliz and he would cost significantly less to sign.
As for the draft, I give Bobby Heck a hell of a lot more credit than Ed Wade.
by jar75 on Apr 15, 2025 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Crede’s bat would have been much better, no doubt, but there is a lot of risk involved with crede’s back. I’m fine with Feliz for a year. No i wasn’t talking about him being one of the best bats in the lineup as a whole. I’m talking about current performance this season, albeit a very small sample size. This team is BAD, nobody is arguing its good. My argument is that he’s doing what he can until the budget allows him to do better. Every contract is basically built around the eventual large contracts coming off the books. There is a pattern, its not a win now pattern. Its half hearted compete now with building through the draft and everything comes off the books about the same time the farm system pushes a few guys to the major league level.
Theres not much more he can do. He can’t trade Lee, lee won’t waive it, has said so and has turned down multiple trades. Drayton is too tied up in having some attendance to continue to fill his pocket book by trading away fan favorites Berkman, Roy O, and Pence.
I still believe in the guy because he has done some nice things. Brad Mills is a promising manager. Brad Arnsberg is a great pitching coach. Had a nice trade for Lindstrom who is performing well. Myers was decently cheap and is pitching well. The trade Wade made happen to get Bourn is working out great for us. So he has done some nice things given the circumstances.
by Subber10 on Apr 15, 2025 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So what you're saying is, essentially:
“if he doesn’t spend the money now on bad players he will lose it.”
The Drayton tied his hands stuff is ridiculous. This guy is quite obviously a bad GM - one of the worst in baseball. He has not clue what he’s doing regardless of the restrictions placed on him. Bad owner. Bad GM.
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by alskor on Apr 15, 2025 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wade didn't create the entire mess, no....
But all he’s done is stir the pot and added a couple expensive but crappy ingredients. There’s no direction or plan here at all.
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by alskor on Apr 15, 2025 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
trade...
…wandy and oswalt at the deadline. that would restock the system quite a lot.
by holybovine on Apr 15, 2025 12:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
As a Pirates fan I say leave it
So we don’t finish in the NL Central cellar for once
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by WVPiratesfan on Apr 15, 2025 12:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Also...
as a Pirates fan, unless we have a winning record, I want us to finish at the bottom every year to get the best draft pick possible. Especially this year when a talent like Anthony Rendon is up for grabs.
by joegonzo on Apr 15, 2025 7:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This team is actually going in the right direction
After 4 years living in a quasi-contention limbo, Astros needed a purifying effect that only a total disaster season can bring. They need to lose as many games as possible, so that Uncle Drayton can finally approve a complete fire sale, and so they can draft Rendon with first pick in 2011. Problem is, Berkman, Lee and Oswalt all have no-trade protection. Berkman will waive it only for Rangers and Oswalt would consider Southern/Midwestern NL teams and Lee apparently has no interest in waiving it at all, IIRC. I agree Pence and Wandy shouldn’t be kept around either. They are both good players that can get you some prospects, but not building block types. And Wandy is on the wrong side of 30, at that. Cashing in on him is a must.
Overall, their system is terrible and something has to be done about it. Castro is a good catching prospect but long way from an elite Santana/Posey type. He is in a 60-80 range in my top 100. Lyles should be a nice mid-rotation arm but he’s not a top 3 prospect on a good farm. Mier is promising but so far down the pipeline, where possibility of flaming out is still very high. And after those three, it’s a huge drop-off. Yikes.
It will be interesting to see what will they do in draft this year. They own #8, #19 and #33 picks just in the first round. McLane is a Selig suck-up and refuses to pay over the slot bonuses and they will probably go cheap again. Still, they should make their system a little bit stronger through this year’s draft too.
by Manstein on Apr 15, 2025 4:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
I drafted Rendon in my NL only league this year so I hope to god they’ll have the #1 pick. Though they could break my heart again like they did when they took Jason Castro over Justin Smoak …
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Apr 15, 2025 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weather the storm for now
Bad as their lineup is it obviously not THIS bad. And they have some decent young arms. Wait it out and see where you are in June. If they’re still terrible then, Wandy should be the first to go. Drayton won’t deal Berkman or Oswalt and Lee’s contract makes him unmovable.
by nivarsity on Apr 15, 2025 9:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bad Place
That would a bad place to be in. Too good to blow it up completely, too bad to seriously contend for anything.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Apr 15, 2025 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
blow up the entire roster AND management/ownership
Is that suggestion valid, John?
by rmarx on Apr 15, 2025 9:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
there is no way they will compete
this year, let alone the coming years. they should just go young and hope their farm system comes through. they need to draft better, and stop overpaying, and overplaying mediocre players like Geoff Blum and Jason Michaels. the fact these guys are on their 40-man roster alone speaks volumes.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Apr 15, 2025 10:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Double all the salaries of the current players
fat, happy players will perform better;) Then they’d have the payroll to compete with the really big market teams.
by Toddius on Apr 15, 2025 10:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I Say Don't Worry About It
I think you’ll do more long term damage running around trying to make a bunch of panicy deals than if you just try to build a good team from here on. For the most part I think you should forget about trades….you’re trying to get a great deal…the other guy’s trying to get a great deal…somebody’s gonna get screwed. And since you’re dealing from a position of desperation it’s probably going to be you.
Sabremetrics is becoming a highly refined science (art?) Why not make use of it?
I live in Houston and have nothing against the Astros in particular, but I’ve pretty much sworn off major league baseball - anybody’s major league league baseball. We go to several professional games a year…MINOR league games. Corpus Christi, Frisco, & Round Rock all have comfortable, state of the art stadiums. The parking is cheaper, the traffic is easier to deal with, the tickets much cheaper, the viewing angles & proximity to the field vastly superior, and our wives enjoy the games much more because of the between-innings entertainment, etc.
Besides, I find A & AA baseball highly entertaining. I have to look really hard to be able to notice a difference in the level of play between AA & the majors. And even when I do think I see a difference, I’m not really sure that I’m not just fooling myself.
I have nothing against Lance Berkman or Roy Oswalt or Carlos Lee. If I was as good as them and someone offered me $14,000,000 a year, I’d sure take it. But, on the other hand, I’m not going to pay $20 to park my car on the wrong side of downtown Houston, walk a loonngg way to the stadium, and pay $50 for the same tickets that I would pay $10 for in Corpus Christi after a $4 parking fee for a game that I will enjoy just as much, probably more, with a much happier wife, plus a fireworks display after the game. And it gives us an excuse to get out of town, usually with another couple who appreciate minor league baseball (we know lots of them), for a really nice weekend.
I really think that if a lot more fans did what we do, and attend minor league, independent league, and college games the high major league salaries and ticket prices would start to come down.
by The Seagull on Apr 15, 2025 11:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
When?
When is the next year the Astros will win 80 games?
My vote is 2013.
The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. It reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.
by Savoy on Apr 15, 2025 11:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe if they start the rebuilding right now...
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by alskor on Apr 15, 2025 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I realize Ed Wade spent most of his career with the Phillies
Where he is loved and hated for good and bad reasons. But he really needs to stop making a habit out of raiding the Phillies dumpster (Bourn, Feliz, Myers). Speaking of Feliz, what sense does it make to take a guy who’s only value is his glove at 3rd and move him to first base?
by Cormican on Apr 15, 2025 2:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
be patient
Wade hasn’t made all the right moves but he made a very good one in bringing in Bobby Heck to run the farm system. The last two drafts have been much better than before. They are currently culling the farm system of Tim Purpura’s poor quality work. As a fan of their Appy league team, I can tell you that from 05-07 the Astros got very, very little out of the draft.
They need to keep investing in their international program (Asia & Dominican). They need to continue to draft well and promote aggressively. This problem was here when Wade arrived. It will take some time to fix it.
by Duman on Apr 15, 2025 10:46 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Fire Ed Wade
Fire Ed Wade - the Brandon Lyon signing sealed the deal for me. I’d hire Kim Ng.
by c60 on Apr 16, 2025 8:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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