Better MLB Career - Clay Buchholz or Neftali Feliz w/poll
Who do you like better long term (next 4 years) and why?
Long term MLB success. At this stage which one would you rather have? Both have "elite" stuff. Buchholz has yet to totally harness it, but I do believe that it will come. He just needs reps and consistency. Feliz. Closer or starter? The makings of an elite closer and folks seem to lean that way long term by ~ 60/40. That said, Scheppers is coming and he also has the makings of a closer and I would think Nolan Ryan would first want to see what he has in Feliz as a starter. Thanks for all opinions/comments.
I realize that there are a lot of Rangers' fans who post on this site, so more interested in commentary than the poll results
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Feliz
He’s shown he can dominate in MLB. Not too close right now.
by nivarsity on Apr 17, 2025 2:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And so has Buchholz
He threw a no hitter, if that’s not showing you can dominate I don’t know what is.
by nyy601 on Apr 17, 2025 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
it is one game
Has Jon Sanchez dominated the majors… he has one too?
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Apr 17, 2025 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and Feliz has 0 starts
so has he shown he can dominate as a starter?
by nyy601 on Apr 17, 2025 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bud Smith threw a no hitter
Buchholz is the next A.J. Burnett.
by Bravesin07 on Apr 17, 2025 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he doesn't remind me at all of Burnett . . .
by mrkupe on Apr 17, 2025 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He means all the stuff in the world, never quite figured out how to use it
You’re name has 2k9 in it — what are you some 8 year-old who makes Pillsbury Doughboy cookies and jerks off to that bullshit video game with Tim Lincecum on the cover--
Frederick0220
by Mets2k9 on Apr 17, 2025 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
But if you really dont know, he was a pitcher for the Cardinals who only played 2 years (2001-02)
by Yankees10 on Apr 17, 2025 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
The point was that outside of the no-no Smith would be remembered about as well as Mike Bacsik.
by Fanon on Apr 18, 2025 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Feliz has dominated as a reliever.
As a starter, where’s his velo at?
93-96? If so, that no different from Buck.
How do the changeup and hook play when he grows through the order 2, 3, 4 times.
I’ll take Buchholz and his 4 plus pitches for the long haul.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Apr 17, 2025 2:49 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
*goes through
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Apr 17, 2025 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This
I think Hughes and Joba are perfect examples of how much easier it is to dominate in the pen with great stuff. Put Buchholz in a setup role and I would be shocked if he didn’t have a sub 2 ERA and a SO per inning.
I am still waiting on Feliz to show it as a starter before I jump on the bandwagon.
by nyy601 on Apr 17, 2025 2:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I went Buchholz
As Frederick said, a much deeper repertoire and Buch having two secondary pitches that are true out pitches is the difference.
As starters, the velocity won’t be all that much different. This is a point that will probably get overlooked since Feliz hits triple digits regularly in relief. Buchholz’s average fastball this season is coming in at 94.9 mph - essentially 95. He works mid 90’s just like Feliz. Feliz will probably be able to dig deeper and reach high 90’s but so can Buchholz: http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=3543&position=P&pitch=FA
I think Feliz is a special prospect and I’ve been pretty vocal about that… Buchholz was just as special. Buchholz even topped out higher on prospect lists than Feliz - Buchholz was #1 pitcher (BP) and #2 (BP) a couple years back.
So taking Buchholz on a close call and I think Feliz wins this poll since people seem to have forgotten how special Buchholz was as a prospect. You really can’t go wrong here, though.
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twitter: @alskor
by alskor on Apr 17, 2025 3:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Buchholz easy
Buchholz is a starter and Feliz is in the pen, so its not even close. The Rangers are going to have Feliz close an will never find the motivation to put him in the rotation. I have no doubt Feliz will be a great closer, Texas won’t want to move him after him having alot of success in that role. Clay even if he never lives up to what he was thought of should be an average starter, with some years above average thrown in. the only way I could see arguing Feliz is value to team, Texas needs Feliz in the pen, the Sox don’t need Clay in the rotation they have enough starters, so if you want to take context into it it might be a better discussion
by GoldenSpikes24 on Apr 17, 2025 7:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re Clay
I haven’t seen enough of Feliz to comment. But I’ve seen every pitch Buchholz has thrown in MLB (and analyzed most of them with pitch/fx).
A very important thing to remember: ultimately command is much more important than stuff. If Buchholz never improves his command and consistency, his ceiling may be as a #2 starter.
A further thing to keep in mind: velocity is damn important, too. Clay doesn’t throw as hard as, say, Pedro in his prime, and that extra couple of mph is part of what made Pedro the best pitcher of all time. Clay will never have that edge.
Having heard those two caveats, you shouldn’t get too carried away when I say that Clay Buchholz has the best stuff of any pitcher I’ve ever seen in almost 40 years of watching baseball. He gets swings and misses on both changeups and curves that can elicit bursts of laughter, they’re so off-the-scale nasty, and since his no-hitter he’s improved his slider to a plus pitch (it would be most guy’s second best) and added a quality two-seamer which he now throws more than the four-seamer. All of these eyeball opinions are backed up by pitch/fx data, BTW.
He finally got it going this year in his last 15 batters against the Rays tonight (after coming unglued a bit after a 2-out error in the 1st): 7 K, 4 GO, 2 FO, a BB and a 2B.
by emvan on Apr 18, 2025 4:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Buchholz
I think he’s has a chance to be an outstanding pitcher, a weak 1 or very good 2. As several people here have noted, CB has four above-average pitches. He has excellent FB velocity. His control isn’t perfect, but we’re not looking at Matt Clement here.
Remember also that Buchholz didn’t concentrate on pitching until after he left high school. He enrolled at McNeese State in 2003 as an outfielder. Pitching was an afterthought until 2004. He was 20 years old at the time.
He’s still on the uptick of his learning curve.
Feliz has a great arm. He’ll be a very good reliever. I like Buchholz more.
"Most overrated prospect in the minors." -- Bravesin07 on Madison Bumgarner
by criminal type on Apr 18, 2025 3:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
when did you add that sig about Bumgarner?
by Bravesin07 on Apr 18, 2025 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way to commit
with that opening sentence.
by Hank Aaron on Apr 18, 2025 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not even just above-average.
They are clear-cut plus (which to some people = above-average, but I disagree), while the changeup is plus-plus, and the fastball and curveball flash plus-plus.
His pure stuff is right up there with the best (Verlander, Lincecum, Greinke, King Felix, etc).
Real talk.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Apr 18, 2025 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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