Winter Meetings Open Thread

by John Sickels on Dec 4, 2025 12:53 PM EST in News

Use this Open Thread to discuss the Winter Meetings, trades, etc.

0 recs | Comment 73 comments

Comments

Jose Guillen?

for 3 years and $36M? Did I miss something? When did he become a $12M/yr player? Or is this just the play-on-a-crappy-team premium?

by sabernar on Dec 4, 2025 1:01 PM EST 0 recs

It's the free agent market. What's more absurd is the Mariners not offering him arbitration even though he has flat out said he's not returning. Let's just hope for Bavasi's sake that nobody in the supplemental 1st round of next year's draft pans out.

by elrey34 on Dec 4, 2025 1:15 PM EST up 0 recs

wow

they didn't offer him arbitration? Crazy.

by sabernar on Dec 4, 2025 1:24 PM EST up 0 recs

Don't even get me started.

They were going to, but then Guillen's name came up in the Mitchel report and the Mariners didn't want any chance of him coming back.

by elrey34 on Dec 4, 2025 2:28 PM EST up 0 recs

Jose

Guillen, when healthy, is a fine player.

Excellent outfield arm, OPS+ in the range of 115-120. Nothing wrong with that.

by Yakker on Dec 4, 2025 1:36 PM EST up 0 recs

Eh

It seems like a lot on the surface, but I think this just shows how much money in flowing into MLB right now.

The Royals have never been a team that spends wildly in the free agent market, but they just dropped $36 mill on Guillen after spending $55 mill on Gil Meche last year. In addition, they are still in hot pursuit of Andruw Jones and Kuroda.

Who knows, maybe David Glass is becoming senile and is just handing blank checks to Dayton Moore. However, I feel this is observable proof that MLB teams are making a lot more money than most realize.

by Bowser on Dec 4, 2025 1:37 PM EST up 0 recs

Richie Sexson in 2008

could make it 3 consecutive years that the Royals overpay for a Mariners free agent!

C'mon Dayton pull the trigger!

by bellinghambaysports on Dec 5, 2025 5:13 PM EST up 0 recs

3yr/33.6m

hehe.

by doublestix on Dec 4, 2025 3:46 PM EST up 0 recs

So I've heard Seattle is interested in Lincecum

Too bad I don't like him and it'd take AJ or my mancrush Triunfel.

by elrey34 on Dec 4, 2025 1:13 PM EST 0 recs

hmm

maybe they should have just drafted lincecum when they had the chance, instead of settling for brandon morrow.

by jpahk on Dec 4, 2025 1:36 PM EST up 0 recs

hey

Leave the Sea Diamond alone.

Bubba Crosby :(

by PujolsJunkie on Dec 4, 2025 2:09 PM EST up 0 recs

It wasn't as simple as that.

There were more factors that came into play that just which one was better. They let Andrew Miller go because their ol' Buddy Selig doesn't want teams to go over slot, and Selig has the Mariners in his back pocket. Same went for Lincecum.

by elrey34 on Dec 4, 2025 2:26 PM EST up 0 recs

Tigers/Marlins

Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller for Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis sure would be an interesting trade.

by LickSplickidy on Dec 4, 2025 1:28 PM EST 0 recs

Not gonna happen as rumored

It would take a lot more than Maybin and Miller. I think it's more of a way to jack up the price for the Angels.

by Yankees338 on Dec 4, 2025 3:23 PM EST up 0 recs

I sure as hell hope so.

by elrey34 on Dec 4, 2025 3:26 PM EST up 0 recs

Keith Law

said on Collin Cowherd's national radio show this morning that the Jays are willing to move Rios for a pitcher. Given JP's history with Oakland I wonder if Rios for Haren is a realistic possibility.

Law also said that Boras still wants a 6 year contract for Andruw Jones and that he definately won't except anything less than 5 years. Law thinks Jones will be the last "name" free agent to sign somewhere and I totally agree. I think it will take Boras a long time to convince teams to give Anrduw the years and dollars that Boras wants.

by kaisertown on Dec 4, 2025 1:29 PM EST 0 recs

Indians GM on sportscenter yesterday

I loved his thoughts. He said he always tries to stay out of the FA market because the players are in decline and (something like) the salaries are not of value to their production.

The stereotype of Ed Wade is true, as are most stereotypes. How many RPs will he trade for this year?

Personally, I always think the highest contract given out every year is the worst. This year it is the second highest. Tori hunter for 19/yr is just retarded. Guillen's contract is laughing at Tori and the Angels.

If Carlos Lee was up for trade where would you think he would go and for what? I think the Rangers is a good fit.

Make the world a better place. Punch Tim Purpura in the face.

by Shamus on Dec 4, 2025 1:42 PM EST 0 recs

The Indians are run better than anyone else.

I'm extremely jealous.

by elrey34 on Dec 4, 2025 2:41 PM EST up 0 recs

Santana

So it looks like the Sox are gonna get him, it's too bad, I wanted him with the Yankees.

by Abbath on Dec 4, 2025 2:02 PM EST 0 recs

I don't get this

why are the Twins taking the Boston offer over NY's offer? Isn't Hughes the best player included in either offer? I really think the Twins are making a mistake.

by Bowser on Dec 4, 2025 2:05 PM EST up 0 recs

Agree

I agree with you completly. Also, the Sox are saying "Chose between Ellsbury or Lester" while the Yankees are saying "Take Hughes and Cabrera"! I DON'T GET IT!!!

by Abbath on Dec 4, 2025 2:20 PM EST up 0 recs

Prospects

I think the deal breaks down not over the young major leaguers, but over the prospects. Lowrie + Masterson > just Jackson, and Crisp still fills the gap in CF very capably while Revere gets his polish in the minors. That having been said, I probably would go with the Yankees offer, since I'll take Hughes any old day of the week over anybody else in that offer.

Question : How many years are left on Crisp's deal? 2? I've heard varying reports, and they don't all jibe with Cots' Contracts.

by GuyinNY on Dec 4, 2025 2:44 PM EST up 0 recs

2 plus an option

cmathewson

by cmathewson on Dec 4, 2025 3:27 PM EST up 0 recs

Thanks

by GuyinNY on Dec 4, 2025 5:33 PM EST up 0 recs

Trades

The Twins should be taking the Yankees offer.
They should simply tell the Yankees. Santana for Hughes, Cabrera and Jackson. Done
The A's should send the Red Sox Haren for Lester, Crisp(They need a CF) Masterson, and Lowrie.
The Orioles should send the Mets Bedard for Martinez (Or Gomez if they prefer), Pelfrey and Hielman.
I think all these deals are fair for both sides and address there team needs. The Twins have plenty of pitching prospects, but you cant pass on Hughes(if the sox wont move Bucholz)
The A's need a CF(hence Crisp) and would love the cheap arms..
And the Orioles can reload for a run down the road, since basically, there an old team, especially on offense. But with Weiters, Rowell, Martinez and Markakais Etc, they could begin to acquire some top notch talent.
What do you guys think?

by Maxima231 on Dec 4, 2025 2:11 PM EST 0 recs

Trades

I doubt the Sox would offer the same for Haren that they have for Santana (though I don't doubt that Beane would absolutely ask for that much), and I think trading those four guys for Haren is an overpay, while acknowledging that Haren is under contract beyond 2008.

If I'm the Twins, I think I'd want one additional pitcher in the deal you put forth with the Yankees, but if I'm getting Hughes, I wouldn't be bound and determined to get Kennedy as well.

I'd say the O's/Mets deal looks a little light. I like Martinez/Gomez as much as anyone, but I don't see anything special in Heilman anymore, and Pelfrey just hasn't show signs that he's putting it together. For me, that deal doesn't offer near enough.

That said, I don't think any of the ideas you set forth are unreasonable (despite my nitpicking with all of them...).

"A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day." - Calvin

by RVachon on Dec 4, 2025 2:23 PM EST up 0 recs

wrong

The Yankees refuse to include Jackson in with Hughes and Cabrera, that's one of the reasons why the Twins don't want the Yankees' deal.

Now, my issue is that even without Jackson (or Horne or Kennedy), the Yankees offer is still better since Hughes is by far the best player that is being talked about. You never trade the best pitcher in baseball for 4 guys with medium to low ceilings. Lester is never going to be a superstar, but Hughes definitely has the potential to be.

And another thing to note, Melky Cabrera isn't really all that great. I like the kid, but he's still below average offensively and, while he has a strong arm, he's not the best fielding CF around (Crisp is better, but WAY more expensive).

by sabernar on Dec 4, 2025 2:26 PM EST up 0 recs

Response

Austin Jackson is a pretty decent prospect, but if he's all that's standing between Johan Santana and a Yankees uniform, the Yankees should've taken that deal and not thought twice.

by mrkupe on Dec 4, 2025 2:48 PM EST up 0 recs

Not quite...

I believe the deal was reported as Hughes, Melky, & Kennedy OR Hughes, Melky, Horne, & AJax.

by cooper7d7 on Dec 4, 2025 3:08 PM EST up 0 recs

Response

Okay then.

I like Horne an awful lot as well. But you could throw him in and it still wouldn't matter.

I don't really get why teams are being so cautious here. We're not talking about some No. 3 starter here, we're talking about the best pitcher in the game. You can't expect NOT to pay a very high price for him. The Yankees should be thrilled that they can get a guy like Santana for the cost of an okay outfielder and a couple of talented but untested kids. That they are reacting in the opposite manner suggests that either A) they crazy or B) the economics of baseball, particularly as they relate to the salary differences between veteran players and players inside of 6 years of service, are seriously out of whack.

by mrkupe on Dec 4, 2025 3:34 PM EST up 0 recs

Re: Re: Re:

I wasn't making a case that the addition of Horne was a deal breaker, I just didn't want you to think that the point of contention was solely Jackson, when it was Jackson and Horne.

by cooper7d7 on Dec 4, 2025 3:52 PM EST up 0 recs

Position Prospect

I think the fact that he is the best position prospect that the Yankees have is the reason that the Yanks don't want to just trade him. He overtook Tabata this season and a lot of people think he can possibly take over for Abreau after this season is concluded. I really think the only reason the Red Sox are involved in all of these trade talks is to screw their most hated division rival. If you think about it, after the WS was over, no one would have thought that the Sox would go after a high profile pitcher in the offseason. I would think most Sox fans would be content with their rotation of Beckett, Schilling, Matsuzaka, Bucholz, Wakefield and Lester

by T for Jose Tabatha on Dec 4, 2025 5:28 PM EST up 0 recs

The future...

While getting Santana this year is really nice, this is also about the future. What will that future hold for the performances of 40+ year olds like Schilling and Wake? What if Bucky or Lester falter this year?

by cooper7d7 on Dec 4, 2025 5:56 PM EST up 0 recs

the other catch:

$120,000,000+

No matter what all the Yankees' enemies say, money does matter to them. I don't think that they were willing to drop another $120M+ on one player no matter how good he is. I know they have some big salaries coming off the books, but the Yankees didn't win all those World Series by throwing all their money around. They won them by bringing players through their system and making smart free agent signings.

by sabernar on Dec 5, 2025 1:28 PM EST up 0 recs

Ummm...

I have about 314 million examples of why that may not be completely accurate...

"A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day." - Calvin

by RVachon on Dec 5, 2025 6:13 PM EST up 0 recs

+1

Perhaps an underestimate

by sdtribefan on Dec 6, 2025 7:28 AM EST up 0 recs

here's a new one

DeJesus for Chuck James. Good stopgap centerfielder until Schafer is ready.

by Bravesin07 on Dec 4, 2025 2:19 PM EST 0 recs

I was just about to post this....

it's being reported by the KC Star, so it must have some legs.

I think DDJ is probably worth a bit more than James, but I also like seeing Moore making a move with his CF with Gathright in the fold.

by deezle on Dec 4, 2025 2:20 PM EST up 0 recs

Good trade for the Bravos.

Chuck James has a lot of underrated equals.

by elrey34 on Dec 4, 2025 2:43 PM EST up 0 recs

no way

A price-controlled, young, league-average starter to fix what amounts to a one-year problem in CF? No way.

Maybe if there were some prospects coming over as well.... But this just seems like way too little for a good, young starter.

by mraver on Dec 4, 2025 5:30 PM EST up 0 recs

here's another one

Bedard for Miller and Maybin. Apparently Bedard wants to pitch for the Tigers.

by Bravesin07 on Dec 4, 2025 2:38 PM EST 0 recs

If I'm the Tigers,

I might be more interested in that than the Cabrera rumor. But I'm wondering if this is just some kind of tactic to make the Marlins feel more pressured to pull the trigger on the Miggy blockbuster.

by elrey34 on Dec 4, 2025 2:45 PM EST up 0 recs

Reds rumors

If the Reds trade Bailey or Bruce I am going to be VERY upset.

I hope to a point that the only reason they keep coming up in the rumors for Bedard and Haren is because they are one of the few teams that has the prospects to actually make that type of deal happen and not that the Reds are talking about moving someone.

Bruce was apparently pulled off the table for Bedard, which I think is the right move.

http://www.redsminorleagues.com

by dougdirt on Dec 4, 2025 3:43 PM EST 0 recs

would you trade Bailey and Votto for Lincecum?

by Bravesin07 on Dec 4, 2025 3:45 PM EST up 0 recs

No

Lincecum is better than Bailey, but not enough to offset the difference Votto will make. Both Linc and Bailey are top young pitchers with risks. Linc has the injury risk, and Bailey has the control problems. Votto can easily bat .300/.375/.475 while having avg-above (I think he's better defensively than he gets credit for) defense at 1st.

On a side note.
If the Kemp + Broxton = Bedard is true, is there really any big difference in Hamilton + Burton = Bedard.
Is Kemp + Broxton >> Hamilton + Burton + Stubbs?

by mlbfan30 on Dec 4, 2025 4:15 PM EST up 0 recs

who the heck is Burton?

by McLovin on Dec 4, 2025 4:37 PM EST up 0 recs

Someone you should really know

The Reds plucked him from the A's in last years rule 5 draft. He throws a cutter that rivals Mo Rivera's. There have been several articles written by bloggers about it using the Pitchf/x data.

He is a reliever who sits around 94 MPH and throws in the 92-96 range. He throws a slider (not that much, but enough) and a change up.

Check out Burton and Rivera's pitch fx data side by side by going to the link below.

Burton and Rivera Pitch fx data picture

For the record he pitched 43 innings last year, allowed 28 hits, 2.51 ERA, 2 HR, struck out 36 and walked 22. The walks were not the best, but a 1.16 WHIP is something I will definately live with.

http://www.redsminorleagues.com

by dougdirt on Dec 4, 2025 4:57 PM EST up 0 recs

Ooops, also forgot this

http://jinaz-reds.blogspot.com/2007/09/could-jared-burton-be-another-mariano.html

There is one of the blog posts on it.

http://www.redsminorleagues.com

by dougdirt on Dec 4, 2025 4:59 PM EST up 0 recs

re:

Maybe I should know who he is. But you've said enough that I know I wouldn't be interested in dealing a top of the rotation pitcher like Bedard with Burton being one of the two principle returns.

by McLovin on Dec 4, 2025 5:48 PM EST up 0 recs

Certainly

I wouldn't want him as a centerpeice of a trade for Haren or Bedard if I were the other team... but he is plenty talented.

http://www.redsminorleagues.com

by dougdirt on Dec 4, 2025 5:52 PM EST up 0 recs

so

two Rule V pickups for Bedard?

So they were essentially worthless 12 months ago, and now the two of them paired together are worth one of the top 5-10 most valuable pitchers in baseball?

by Galt on Dec 5, 2025 11:59 AM EST up 0 recs

I didn't say that

But the two players certainly hold a nice chunk of value around the league. Not Bedard type of value, but a nice piece of value.

http://www.redsminorleagues.com

by dougdirt on Dec 5, 2025 12:21 PM EST up 0 recs

yes

Kemp/Broxton is much better than Hamilton/Burton.

And you can't honestly be against a Bailey/Votto deal for Bedard for God's sake. Bedard is amazing.

by Galt on Dec 5, 2025 11:57 AM EST up 0 recs

Yes and yes

Yes, I would rather have Kemp/Broxton because I think Matt Kemp is going to be an absolute stud when someone actually lets him play full time.

And yes, I am against a Bailey/Votto deal for Bedard. Bedard is amazing, but I would not be letting go of Bailey. I would offer Cueto, Hamilton and Votto for Bedard if I had to, but Bailey wouldn't be moving.

http://www.redsminorleagues.com

by dougdirt on Dec 5, 2025 12:23 PM EST up 0 recs

makes sense...

For the Yankees, getting the best player in a deal is really the only important thing, since money is no object. But for the Reds, I would think that Bailey is likely as nice of an asset now as Bedard, even if you assume Bedard is as good as hyped...

With Bailey, you get 6 more years of "control", 3 of which will be VERY cheap.

With Bedard, you get 2 more years of "control", neither of which will be cheap, though they will cost a team less than an FA would cost.

So, taking a "long view" of it, you have to ask yourself whether Bailey's next 6 seasons will provide as much value as Bedard's next 2. I'd say there's at least a 50% chance that Bailey does almost nothing (just based on historical washout rates for young pitchers), but that still leave the EV of Bailey being 3 good seasons, compared to Bedard's 2 seasons... and at a much cheaper price (allowing other holes to be filled in addition).

I'm not much of a Votto fan, but adding anything to Bailey for Bedard makes the deal untenable IMO. Straight up (or with an organizational soldier type added) wouldn't be awful, but Baltimore wouldn't go for that anyway.

On a tangential point, I don't like the idea of using lefty starters in the NL Central. I'm a Cubs fan, and it's bad enough for them - with STL, PIT, HOU all having lineups which lean to the right (and HOU and CHI having parks which are friendly to righty power). But for Cincy, it's even worse, since Chicago should hit lefties hard (they didn't in 2007, I know... not sure why not), while Cincy's lineup is pretty balanced.

by BobbyMac on Dec 5, 2025 12:45 PM EST up 0 recs

No I wouldn't

I like Tim Lincecum, but his size worries me still at this point. Not as much as it did, but I would take my chances with Bailey, who I think is primed to break out next season and post numbers similar to Lincecum did this past year with maybe a little lower strikeout rate, but overall same type numbers and keep Joey Votto in that process and maybe move Votto in another deal to acquire a different pitcher. A package of Votto, Edwin Encarnacion and Josh Hamilton could get you a pretty good starting pitcher.

http://www.redsminorleagues.com

by dougdirt on Dec 4, 2025 4:30 PM EST up 0 recs

I sure wouldnt deal Lincecum

How can the Giants deal Lincecum or Cain. Lets be honest, they really do stink. The Giants are terrible and Sabean kept adding old farts to go around Bonds and it finally caught up with them.
But Lincecum can be an ace. And Cain is no slouch. Everyone else is after SP, why would you deal yours. Here is a wonderful idea for Sabean. DRAFT BETTER!!!!
Do you all remember the year he signed Micheal Tucker for 2.45M so he would LOSE his 1st rounder. BEcause he said he would rather pay a ML player than some prospect. What an idiot. If he had not drafted Cain and Lincecum, he would have been fired. Remember the AJ Peirzynski deal?

by Maxima231 on Dec 4, 2025 4:48 PM EST up 0 recs

Ugh

Somebody from the McCoven needs to cue the beating a dead horse gif.

by caintastic on Dec 4, 2025 5:32 PM EST up 0 recs

oh my

This is fourth-hand now from me, but according to redlegnation, according to Paul Daugherty on WLW, you're about to be upset.

by DevilsAdvocate on Dec 4, 2025 8:22 PM EST up 0 recs

I keep reading that

I will be pretty upset.

http://www.redsminorleagues.com

by dougdirt on Dec 4, 2025 8:46 PM EST up 0 recs

maybe not

looks like it's just a wild rumor. Go back to being happy.

by DevilsAdvocate on Dec 4, 2025 8:59 PM EST up 0 recs

Like I said over at RLN

I can't take this December.... way too much unneeded stress right now.

http://www.redsminorleagues.com

by dougdirt on Dec 4, 2025 9:04 PM EST up 0 recs

ESPN

Just confirmed that the Tigers and Marlins are very, very close on a deal and its basically set for approval.

Tigers receive:
Miguel Cabrera
Dontrelle Willis

Marlins receive:
Cameron Maybin
Andrew Miller
4 other prospects

by T for Jose Tabatha on Dec 4, 2025 6:17 PM EST 0 recs

The deal is.....

Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera for Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybin, Eulogio De La Cruz, Dallas Trahern, Mike Rabelo, and Burke Badenhop.

As a Tigers fan, I am thrilled to see the Tigers make a bold move and attempt to get back to the World Series this year to win it all.

They gave up a lot, but a bunch of unproven specs for two proven players, one of which is probably a top 5 hitter, and the other that solidifies the rotation even more if he can return to form.

Either way, Willis essentially replaces whoever was going to be the 5th guy in the rotation. I don't see how he could do worse really, and maybe this is the change of scenery he needed.

It should also be noted that two of Cabrera's closest friends are Carlos Guillen and Magglio Ordonez.

GO TIGERS

Bonderman, Verlander, Miller, Porcello, OH MY!

by sportznut3081 on Dec 4, 2025 10:02 PM EST up 0 recs

What is the bigger prize

for the Marlins Maybin or Miller??

by Rajah358 on Dec 5, 2025 7:26 PM EST up 0 recs

Jose Guillen deal

Whatever happened to Chris Lubanski?

by tiki gods on Dec 4, 2025 7:37 PM EST 0 recs

Lubanski

struggled in AAA this year

by Rajah358 on Dec 4, 2025 8:14 PM EST up 0 recs

And boom goes the Mets fanbase

As per espn.com's winter meetings blog:

"8:12 p.m., from Steve Phillips
* The Mets offered Aaron Heilman, Carlos Gomez and Philip Humber for Erik Bedard."

"...and the only things I've found better than listening to Vin Scully are listening to Keith Jackson and uncut cocaine." (bleedjaxblue)

by drjayphd on Dec 4, 2025 8:21 PM EST 0 recs

Jays

Steve Phillips said on TSN today that he Jays and Giants were talking Lincecum for Rios however SF wanted Glaus too.

Maybe TO does this and then tries to grab Inge from Detriot to replace Glaus? I hate to lose Rios but as everyone knows Lincecum is going to win 37 cy youngs!!!

Another Jays note was that they were also involved in Jason Bay talks, he'd nicely replace Rios in the Jays lineup...so they lose Rios and Glaus and get Inge, Bay and Lincecum (not too bad if it were a perfect world). Too bad JP isn't as smart as I am.

by bunner19 on Dec 4, 2025 9:27 PM EST 0 recs