Discussion Question: Pittsburgh Pirates
You woke up this morning to find yourself in charge of the Pittsburgh Pirates.
How do you continue the rebuilding process? At what point do you call up Pedro Alvarez? What do you look for in the draft this year?
Have at it.
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Draft
Best College arm available.
pitching is the big need.
I take arms with the first 2/3 picks, depending on what’s available… ‘take the best player available’ but with a strong preference for arms early on. in the later rounds maybe look for some high-upside HS arms with college commitments… take a few risks from 4th round -on .
Brad Lincoln is nearly ready, but he is more of 3/4… Zach Von Rosenberg heads a group of younger more projectable arms, but they are far away and there is still a big need for high-upside arms.
Position-wise… Alvarez and Sanchez seem like pretty safe bets to hit MLB pitching. Chase D’Arnaud will be a good MI utility at the least, and has the work ethic to become more. Starling Mart is a high-upside OF bat… Robbie Grossman and Jarek Cunningham I like a lot. Jarek has a chance to be a big bat at 2B, maybe 3B if Pedro moves off. Grossman is an OFer who can play anywhere but will likely be moved of CF… but he has an advanced approach/eye at the plate despite his struggles last year in his first full season.
by daveh33 on Apr 23, 2025 1:18 PM EDT reply actions
As Pirates Fan I apologize for that disgrace yesterday
but how we need to go about fixing this thing is we need to find some good young pitcher, not Matt Morris, because that really a position that we lack depth at in the Minors. The Franchise will be up sometime around July I’m going to quess. Also I open to offers for Doumit and Duke
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"It's a great day to be a mountaineer, where ever you may be" Tony Caridi
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Apr 23, 2025 1:24 PM EDT reply actions
Pitching, pitching, pitching.
They have a cornerstone in McCutchen, and potentially another one in Alvarez. Additionally, LaRoche, Jones, Milledge, Tabata, d’Arnaud, Sanchez, and others give them a pretty nice stable of young position players.
But where’s the upper level pitching? The guys that are close to the majors, like Lincoln and Alderson, have limited upside, and the guys with upside, like Von Rosenberg, Cain, Pounders and Morris, are all either raw or battling injuries.
It makes a whole lot of sense to me to see the Pirates take Pomeranz, McGuire, or maybe even Tallion if he’s still there.
I like baseball.
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by Satchel Price on Apr 23, 2025 1:42 PM EDT reply actions
-Draft Jameson Taillon
-Bring Steve Pearce up to platoon with Jeff Clement. I don’t think either will do much in the majors, but that’s the best possible combination at 1B
-Give Neil Walker significant time at 2B and see if he does anything.
-Don’t be afraid to cut ties with former prospects that continue to under perform (e.g. Lastings Milledge)
-I wait until after Super Two status to call up Pedro. I give him time at third base, but don’t hesitate to move him to 1B if he doesn’t show enough range to be at least average defensively. I believe his bat will still be pretty special at 1B and there isn’t anyone else in this organization who profiles there. Andy is solid enough for now.
-Pray that the Pirates are in a position to draft Anthony Rendon in 2011.
-As for the pitching staff, it won’t be good any time soon. The current rotation is terrible with Duke and Maholm being solid. Lincoln will get a shot at starting, but I’m really not sure he can stay in the rotation without a better change-up. I desperately wanted them to pursue Chapman since this organization has almost no one with TOR upside.
by jar75 on Apr 23, 2025 1:46 PM EDT reply actions
I don't think we are gitting rid of Lastings this year
he has been nothing short of an upstanding citizen for us this year and is playing well for us
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"It's a great day to be a mountaineer, where ever you may be" Tony Caridi
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Apr 23, 2025 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Playing well...
…isn’t entirely accurate, but by all accounts, he does seem to be a bit more focused on succeeding at the MLB level.
I think he gets at least most of this season to see if he can become an average corner-OF guy, but in the end, he’s battling against Tabata and some of the other speedy OF guys in the system for that LF spot long term.
by jseiner on Apr 23, 2025 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure if Tabata has the bat to hold down a corner OF position either
But he’d probably be at least as productive offensively as Lastings and probably better defensively.
by jar75 on Apr 23, 2025 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
If he could play a corner anywhere...
…it’s in Pittsburgh, where Huntington has voiced a preference for a guy in left who is, essentially, a second centerfielder, just because of PNC’s big left field.
Otherwise, though, I think you’re right.
by jseiner on Apr 24, 2025 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree with playing well
He’s an empty average type of hitter and I don’t anticipate the power ever coming.
by jar75 on Apr 23, 2025 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
it was a comparative to what we have going on right now
GFJ hasn’t done anything since the opening Series, Clement has done very little so far, Aki still has yet to really get it going, Cendeno refuses to take a pitch, and Andy is having back spasism. So compared to that he is playing well, I also think he saw the writing on the wall that if he doesn’t get his head screwed on straight he career could be over
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"It's a great day to be a mountaineer, where ever you may be" Tony Caridi
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Apr 23, 2025 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I still disagree
His wOBA so far this year is .271.
The rest of the everyday lineup:
Akinori: .313
McCutchen: .358
Jones: .371
Doumit: .305
Clement: .163
Andy: .328
Cedeno: .320
Yeah, he hasn’t been as terrible as Clement, but he has been really bad.
by jar75 on Apr 23, 2025 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Playing well?
If that’s playing well, being a Pirates fan must be even rougher than I imagined.
by Fanon on Apr 24, 2025 6:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Their GM probably says
I wonder how early I can start trading my good talent and get more prospects.
The Pirates probably is they do not keep guys after they mature, they have no clubhouse leadership. They do not need to turn to prospects, they have a lot of good talent who are having a small slump in the line up. They have average pitching at best,
by Rickfansince76 on Apr 23, 2025 3:51 PM EDT reply actions
we have Brenden Donelly and Octavio Dotel who are old guys that have been around
so I wouldn’t say we have no clubhouse leadership, just very little
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"It's a great day to be a mountaineer, where ever you may be" Tony Caridi
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Apr 23, 2025 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
And it's definitely not the probably.
by LongLiveLangerhans on Apr 23, 2025 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd go with
drafting pitching, perhaps high schoolers, they seem to have a bad run on drafting “safe” college pitchers of late—JVB, …etc. etc.
stop wasting roster space on “veteran pitchers” like Donnelly, Carrasco and give the “kids” a shot, why not?
otherwise, just keep calling up the best players you can put on the playing field and hope for the best.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Apr 23, 2025 4:51 PM EDT reply actions
veteran pitchers
pitchers like Donnelly and Carrasco aren’t just wasting space. If they pitch well they can be dealt for a prospect… this sort of small play is low risk and can have a potentially high return (see Sherrill or Blake deals).
What the Pirates need is a clear, concise philosophy and time. They need pitching but I think it’s always best to take the best available player and work from there. The only thing they can do about their run of bad luck with injured pitching prospects is to do a better job profiling the mechanics and health of the players they look at.
by BoBtheMule on Apr 23, 2025 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
What I would do...
Trade Duke and Maholm for some good prspects that are in no lower than High A. Wait until the deadline and deal veterans like Dotel, Donnelly, and Carrasco for some decent prospects. Draft Zach Cox number 2 overall this year at 2B and draft high upside arms in almost every other round. Leave Alvarez in Triple A all year long to help him develop and gain another year of him. Lose as many games as possible that way we can draft Anthony Rendon next year. Also, keep on taking risks like he has been. Taking chances on guys like Milledge, Clement, Morton, Tabata, and others could pay off in a big way eventually.
by joegonzo on Apr 23, 2025 5:53 PM EDT reply actions
Imagine a line-up with...
McCutchen, Alvarez, Rendon, Cox, and Tony Sanchez in it. That is a cheap line up that could potentially be top 5 in the majors.
by joegonzo on Apr 23, 2025 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I would be rather upset with Cox
I’m just not sold that his bat is elite or that his defense is good. I definitely go with a pitcher here. I’d be happy with Taillon, Pomeranz, Ranaudo or Whitson.
by jar75 on Apr 23, 2025 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Although I do have reservations about Ranaudo
Harvey would also be a good choice
by jar75 on Apr 23, 2025 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I like the way they are going...
with drafting pitchers. ZVR, Cain, Dodson, Pounders, Inman, Miller, and a few others could all become big time pitching prospects some day soon. Taking pitchers in the first round is risky, while taking high upside guys in later rounds is not as risky and could give you a similar reward. I really hope guys like Cameron Bedrosian and Deandre Smelter fall to us in rounds 3-5.
Cox does not have an elite bat for the thrid base position though it would still be above average. At 2nd, he has a chance to become one of the best hitters at his position in the majors and an almost perfect 5 hole hitter. To me, he is a much better option than guys like Ranaudo, Harvey(who I would puke if we took), Pomeranz, and Taillon.
by joegonzo on Apr 23, 2025 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think any of those guys have ace upside though (Cain is probably the closest). This team is in desperate need of an ace. I don’t think either of them fall that far unless the bonus demands are ridiculous.
I need an elite bat to take a guy #2, I just wouldn’t be happy with him at all. I’d rather go with Manny Machado if they opt for a position player. I’m probably reading too much into the one time that I saw Harvey this year, but his stuff was just damn impressive.
by jar75 on Apr 23, 2025 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Stay the Course
Would follow the plan GM Huntington setup last season. Go pre-draft deal with low cost but talented hitter on #2 overall pick (Colon/Cox/Machado) and then use remainder of draft budget on draft/sign talented pitching. This draft is pitching heavy so there should be plenty plums this season - similar to what the Pirates did in rounds 4-10 last season.
Players such as PAlvarez should remain in minors so as to control their contracts an extra season.
Be willing to be a seller this season with parts that another club may want.
by wilriv21 on Apr 23, 2025 8:16 PM EDT reply actions
A question like this for the O's would be interesting
www.oriolesprospects.com
by ravensfan3 on Apr 23, 2025 9:13 PM EDT reply actions
On Alzarez
Wait as long as you can get away with. You’re not playing for this year, or next year, or even the year after that. Barring a miracle, the Pirates are still at least four years away from contending.The less service time Alvarez accrues without blowing his stack, the better.
Also, they just need to do a better job working the waiver wire. Decent players are out there for dirt cheap, but they don’t seem to be getting them, and while Neal Huntington isn’t Dave Littlefield, it seems like he’s not a great evaluator of talent either, and he seems to be repeating some of Littlefield’s mistakes, albeit on not such a catastrophic level.
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by Brickhaus on Apr 24, 2025 4:14 AM EDT reply actions
Holy runon, Batman
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Apr 24, 2025 4:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Completely agree on Neal
This team would look a lot worse if not for the work of Greg Smith in the draft. Neal’s trades have not impressed me at all.
by jar75 on Apr 24, 2025 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Go with the same draft strategy as last year (taking an advanced hitter in the first round (Machado or a college guy) and then stockpiling pitchers in later rounds. Get what you can in trades of Maholm, Duke, Iwamura, Doumit, and possibly the bullpen. Keeping Alvarez in AAA could be prudent, but it will be harder to get away with if he gets the average above .258.
by Adam Reynolds on Apr 25, 2025 11:54 PM EDT reply actions
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