Discussion Question: Derek Holland vs. David Price

by John Sickels on Sep 30, 2025 3:14 PM EDT Comment 38 comments

Today's question is the Battle of the Rookie Lefties: Derek Holland vs. David Price. Who would you rather have for the next ten years?

Some basic stats: Holland K/9 7.09; BB/9 3.20; K/BB, 2.21; FIP 5.24, age 22.
Price K/9 7.20; BB/9 3.86; K/BB, 1.87: FIP 4.67, age 24.

Poll

Who do you want for the next ten years, Derek Holland or David Price?

Derek Holland

456 votes

David Price

1103 votes

1559 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 38 comments

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Read More: David Price (P - TAM), Derek Holland (P - TEX)

Comments

David Price

I’ll take David Price by a smidgen, but I think both guys are overrated.

Their secondary stuff doesn’t wow me at all.

Luckily, for Price’s sake, he has sorted out his command issues, as of recently.

One last thing — his K numbers in the minors really are not impressive for a 22/23 year-old who was considered to be the consensus #1 pitching prospect in baseball.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Sep 30, 2025 3:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Sep 30, 2025 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

holland by a good margin

hes younger, has better control, strikes out same amount of guys… and actually has a good wipeout slider unlike price whose slider was always overrated to me…and he has almost completely abandoned it…

by matthewmafa on Sep 30, 2025 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

don’t know if he has better control. http://www.draysbay.com/2009/7/27/962933/the-david-price-pitchfx-analysis explains how Price was getting ‘squeezed’ earlier in the year.

by mjr20 on Sep 30, 2025 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

every pitcher gets squeezed

they just made a big deal out of it

by matthewmafa on Oct 1, 2025 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

pitch fx analysis > your opinion

Who loves orange soda?

by Kenan and Kel on Oct 1, 2025 3:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

really?

then go check how Holland was also getting squeezed this year…and the umps admitted it b/c he “hadn’t earned it yet”.

"The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic" - Charles Darwin, you know who he is...

by 8legs2fangs on Oct 1, 2025 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Which is why umpries should not be calling balls and strikes. They're very bad at it.

Tools Whore

by Tyler on Oct 1, 2025 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No they're not.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Oct 1, 2025 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

They literally cannot see the outside or bottom part of the strike-zone. It’s not within their field of vision. They regularly miss calls in both parts of the strike-zone. Not to mention the human eye cannot really tell where a good curveball or slider crosses the plate. They routinely miss curveballs in the lower half of the strike-zone because they are caught near the dirt.

It’s not necessarily their fault, but they miss a ton of calls that affect the outcomes of games. They should not be put in that position when we have machines that don’t make mistakes.

Tools Whore

by Tyler on Oct 1, 2025 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok

If this universally true then the effect on the game is marginal. Because, these blind umps you are referring to would be missing calls for every team and every at bat. So, assuming your point is true, if they’re missing calls it’s for both teams, and it would essentially be randomized, which to me would balance out.

Then again, I don’t really believe they’re as terrible as you’re stating.

Who loves orange soda?

by Kenan and Kel on Oct 1, 2025 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I agree.

It balances out.

Plus, the subjective aspect of how the game is called enhances it greatly.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Oct 1, 2025 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So getting calls wrong enhances the game?

That’s silly.

Tools Whore

by Tyler on Oct 1, 2025 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

baseball rules.

by doublestix on Oct 3, 2025 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

machines that don’t make mistakes.

Yes they do. Or put another way: The humans that install, program and calibrate the machines make mistakes.

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland -Tom Grieve Rangers Minor League Player of the Year
Martin Perez - Nolan Ryan Rangers Minor League Pitcher of the Year

by RangerMad on Oct 2, 2025 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not only that

but machines break down as well. They cannot be counted on. The human eye will make mistakes but they get the call right most of the time

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.

by NothinG on Oct 5, 2025 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Link?

To articles with quotes from umps admitting they’re squeezing? Also, gotta link to any pitchfx data?

My point was simply that I’ll take a claim substantiated by data over an opinion from a fan.

Who loves orange soda?

by Kenan and Kel on Oct 1, 2025 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

John Sickels your polls suck!

I’m not trying to be negative but after evaluating your polls I’ve come to the conclusion that they are meaningless. Your information is weak because it’s base off of convience and because it has too high of a sample error.

For the last few months I’ve been studying research methods and without a doubt these polls have both a low internal and external validity which will result into an extremley poor evaluation.

I was able to vote more than once and voted for both Holland and Price. I did this to see if it actually would let me, which it did. Now that is bad for your research because for all you know a David Price homer could have voted for him 150 times. Also your form of sampling is one of the weakest methods possible, and with your results we’re unable to determine any kind of difference from voter to voter. If you’re going to keep this than I suggest you apply an SRS method (Simple random survey) to ensure randomness since you can’t do a census.

Now I have a feeling that you don’t care and odds are you created these polls to give you a second opinion, or perhaps to engage and spark conversation. Either way I’m just saying I won’t take a lot from these because when evaluating this research on accuarcy I can only conclude that it’s crap. Now you as a baseball researcher I believe to be excellent, but in no way will these polls lead you to anything more than entertainment.

by johnnycomelately9 on Oct 1, 2025 5:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

lol

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Oct 1, 2025 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

this post is someone taking this way too seriously… or comic genius…

should I start a poll?

by Yosted on Oct 1, 2025 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

settle down

Settle down Beavis.

I’m just trying to spark a conversation. This isn’t “research” in anything more than the vaguest sense.

by John Sickels on Oct 1, 2025 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A little bit of both Yosted

I wasn’t trying to be a jerk (which I was) or get all crazy about who’s best between Holland-Price. I was just trying to show you that if you want to scope the general’s perception correctly, you can! Even over the internet, but not like this.

Since this was created to spark conversation I guess I did my part. Keep up your good work John, and don’t call me names.

by johnnycomelately9 on Oct 3, 2025 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Daaron

is this you????

by smoooooth on Oct 1, 2025 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm glad you're learning about statistics, but...

Internet straw polls are, by definition, unscientific. Everyone who takes them is self-selected. If you attempted to use the results of one of these polls as a data point, your conclusions would be flawed. This isn’t research — it is an internet widget that you can click on a bunch of times if you care to.

John just uses these polls as conversation starters, as you guessed. Oftentimes, he gets a pretty good conversation.

http://www.chop-n-change.com

by alexwithclass on Oct 1, 2025 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wait

Are you telling me those polls arent scientific and/or they dont mean a whole lot?

Shocked! I am Shocked!

by alskor on Oct 3, 2025 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I stand corrected

Now it’s not letting me vote again so I’m wondering how it happened? Either way don’t put a lot of stock into sampling (like this) because error is always high.

by johnnycomelately9 on Oct 1, 2025 5:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You mean what people say on the internet… doesn’t matter? But I’ve been spending so much time correcting people. Is that time just gone… wasted?

charity standing orders

by BadMaafala on Oct 1, 2025 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Thanks

for your advice. i work for the Texas Rangers FO and was contemplating a recommendation to trade Holland if he lost this poll. Thanks to your earth shattering discovery that these polls are meaningless, I’ve decided to table my recommendation for now.

by saltybiscuits on Oct 1, 2025 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

I thought I was pretty jaded, but JCL9, you took my breath away! lol

by blackoutyears on Oct 1, 2025 1:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

What can I say, I was feeling bold (not jaded) and wanted to drop some knowledge

When you win a huge poker tournment online (that night) you’ll begin to filter yourself less. You won’t be able to sleep, the excitement will overtake you, and eventually you’ll begin spilling out truth in a somewhat distasteful manner.

At least that’s what happened to me.

by johnnycomelately9 on Oct 3, 2025 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder what you'll learn in statistics tomrrow?

reeeeelllllaaaaaaaax

by slickterp on Oct 5, 2025 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Johnnycomecochrane

The On-line Poker euphoira defense! That made my day. Sincerely. Oh, and I think people are really underrating Price now that he’s struggled a bit. That said, I wasn’t blown away by his stuff even in his coming out against the Sox last year, which didn’t seem congruent with conventional wisdom. Regardless, he’s got a lot of years to deliver on his promise. I think this is one of the tougher questions as both these guys have a good ways to go to achieve their respective ceilings. Big ifs with both.

by blackoutyears on Oct 8, 2025 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Holland

I’ll take Derek as he is two years younger. Pretty much a toss up in my mind though.

by sheetskout on Oct 1, 2025 3:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think the fact that Price was the #1 overall pick and is a little more hyped than Holland is swaying the masses

cuz this is pretty much a deadlock tie if not sliding towards Holland’s side if you way all the factors. In terms of pure stuff its hard to say from this year if one has better pure stuff than the other, both can bring it up to mid to upper 90’s on rare occasions and both are great lefties. The stats pretty much are equal. While Holland is also under control for an extra year I think(?) .

I dont know, its a pretty hard call, and definitely not a 70-30 slide

Feliz says his greatest thrill was striking out Boston Red Sox DH David Ortiz, one of his heroes. Yet, when he called to tell his parents, his mother had a request: Strike out New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez, too.
"So when I did that," Feliz says, "I told my mom, 'There you go. There's your present. Don't ask me to strike anyone else out, OK?'

by blalock84 on Oct 1, 2025 6:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You're probably right

More people are voting on reputation than are voting on having seen both multiple times and making their own evaluation. But that holds true for just about every opinion regarding minor leaguers or young pitchers.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Oct 3, 2025 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs