Roy Halladay for...??
by Metty5
on Jul 8, 2025 1:47 PM EDT
103 comments
Hey all,
Obviously there has been a lot of speculation about Doc this season. It seems now that J.P. will listen to offers at this point.
So let speculating begin!!!
I'm going to assume that no team in the AL East is going to be considered, if you disgree thats cool, but I won't mention them.
Phillies -- everyone has been pointing at them it seems. Could a package of Drabek, Donald, and Taylor get it done?
Mets - they have no farm, but if they want them maybe they deal Flores, Mejia, and Martinez. Could that get it done? ( I don't think so)
Braves - They have enough, but do they really need pitching?
Florida - A great fit if they can fork up the dough. Doc could really teach that staff something. Uggla (shift hill to SS) Maybin, Stanton? Too much?
Dodgers - I don't think they NEED him, but he would certainly put the World Series in California, right? Ethier, Gordon, and Troncoso?
Colorado - They could try, but would Doc nix the deal? I think so. Gomez, Stewart, and Chacin (Friedrich too?)?
St. Louis - They need a bat, or they could invest in cloning Albert Pujols. But if they were to make a run, do they have enough?
Brewers - This seems like a good fit to me, Escobar, Gamel, and Lawrie compare to what the Phillies can offer.
Cubs - Do they have the money left? I don't think they have enough, though.
White Sox - Flowers and Beckham would have to be the starting place.
Twins - this doen't seem like their type of move.
Angles - Brandon Wood (Free Wood! Free Wood!) Reckling, Rodriguez?
Texas - Another good fit, IMO, Perez, Davis (would they take a chance on him? would tex deal him), M. Ramiriez, and Borbon?
just some quick ideas.
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Others:
Boston: Bowden and/or Buccholz and/or Lars Anderson? But I doubt JP deals within the division
Yankees: Same as above but Hughes, Jackson, Montero is a nice package too
I think the Rangers are the best fit but don’t think they can take on the $$$
by bunner on Jul 8, 2025 2:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think for the Sox to get him, it would take something like Buchholz, Reddick OR Anderson and involving a 3rd team to get a SS prospect Ricciardi likes.
by alskor on Jul 8, 2025 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yamaica Navarro?
Seems like a good fit, though he is a few years away.
by guru4u on Jul 9, 2025 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually think the best fit would be Tampa
Brignac and Wade Davis would certainly get Toronto’s attention. They could very easily add in some other pitching - of which they have plenty. A young, interesting arm like Lobstein, maybe? That kind of deal would work for me if I was Toronto.
by alskor on Jul 8, 2025 2:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The question being whether Tampa can afford Doc, of course
but I think he’s due about 7 over the remainder of this season… so its not prohibitive. A little steep for Tampa. They almost certainly wouldnt extend him, but they could easily let him walk after next season and grab two firsts… if theyre down a big on Davis and Brignac that could make some sense.
Its not really Tampa’s style, yes, but lets not forget how close they were to Jason Bay last year… he only had a year and a half left on his deal, too…
by alskor on Jul 8, 2025 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no the real question is
whether Toronto wants to trade Doc within the AL East…which i doubt…if i were a betting man (which i am), i say if he gets dealt it is to a NL team…and the Phils (i hate to say it) might be able to offer them the best package of players…maybe a package of Drabek, Taylor or Brown, and others?
by miraclemets on Jul 8, 2025 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I agree completely
Id say the Phils have to be the favorites.
by alskor on Jul 8, 2025 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
very similar to how the mets wound up with Johan
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
by Metty5 on Jul 8, 2025 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
i think minaya drugged the twins gm, and thats how we got johan…we gave away nothing, it was a steal and at that point i believe the yanks and sox were offering better
by miraclemets on Jul 8, 2025 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phils:
Probably think that the Phils would give up Donald, Taylor and two of Carrasco, Happ, Drabek
by bunner on Jul 8, 2025 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
donald, yes, carrasco, happ, maybe, but drabek is a definite nonstarter, and taylor is starting to get that same feeling around him
donald, jason werth, and maybe dominic brown, carlos carrasco, ja happ, or antonio bastardo is the most likely combination. there’d also probably be a throw-in or 2, in the form of joe savery, drew naylor, andrew carpenter, or lou marson.
it’s not sexy, but jason werth is a pretty damn decent player, plus donald, carrasco, and a bunch of the throw-ins have quite a bit of upside
human beings, who are almost unique in their ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
by variablesdont on Jul 8, 2025 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lind-Wells-Rios-Snider
Werth is a no go.
One of Taylor OR Drabek would almost certainly have to be a in deal, IMHO.
by alskor on Jul 8, 2025 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jon Heyman Tweet:
SI_JonHeyman i saw philly’s already talkin’ untouchables in farm system (drabek). puh-leeze. if roy halladay isn’t untouchable …
http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/2539192829
by alskor on Jul 8, 2025 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
let me finish that for you
then NOBODY is!
seriously though, if u want to land the best pitcher in baseball, you have to pony up (unless your the Mets)…Taylor, Brown, Drabek all have to be available
by miraclemets on Jul 8, 2025 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Drabek....
would have to be part of the deal if I was Toronto. I actually don’t think the Phillies come close with all of their “untouchables”.
by joegonzo on Jul 8, 2025 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
isn't this the same exact way that johan santana got sent to the mets for a bag of maybes?
wasn’t the santana trade supposed to be with BOS, but MIN was asking for lester or buchholz instead of settling for ellsbury, masterson, or bowden. how well did that work out?
turning your back on a good trade because you think it could be better just leads to selling low after an offer evaporates, or worse, it leads to just no trade getting done.
human beings, who are almost unique in their ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
by variablesdont on Jul 8, 2025 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mildly different situation
The Twins were definitely going to trade Santana.
The Jays have said they might possible begin to think about listening to offers.
by aCone419 on Jul 9, 2025 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
now that's an interesting question
the position that toronto is in, they’re not drawing fans, the ownership wants to sell (at least the estate did after that rogers guy kicked the tailpipe), and halladay’s contract comes up at the end of next year, while the team isn’t really in a position to compete before then. it makes sense that halladay would be traded now, before his value starts diminishing.
the phillies, on the other hand, aren’t nearly in the same position. they’re gonna be in the playoffs this year regardless of what happens, and they have the hitting to beat anyone in a 7 game series, whether they get halladay or not.
if you’d ask why drabek is untouchable and halladay is not, it comes down to value. halladay is paid a lot of money, but he’s relatively cheap compared to the value he provides. drabek, on the other hand, has the potential to be josh beckett circa 2002-2005. that’s both in terms of performance and compensation. that potential right now, is worth more than 1.5 years of halladay, opportunity cost or not.
situations matter. if the bluejays were playing in the AL central, we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all; they’d be in the race, and halladay would be too important to trade. hell, even with them not in the race, he still may be to important to trade.
human beings, who are almost unique in their ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
by variablesdont on Jul 8, 2025 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theres no point trying to rationalize that. the idea that Drabek is untouchable is laughable. As a BJ’s fan I dont think I’d even be happy with the prospects the Phillies would send, and these guys want to make a midget who’s already blown his elbow untouchable? Good luck with that.
by metafour on Jul 8, 2025 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
half the league's blown an elbow.
the fact is, right now, drabek throws 96, he has a plus curveball, and he has control of three pitches. he’s mowing down AA hitters at the age of 21, and though tinstaapp is always factor, drabek’s upside is too great, and his downside too small to worry about catasrophic failure.
for instance, the phillies have a fireballer by the name of scott mathieson. look him up. he’s had multiple consecutive arm surgeries and is just now starting to pitch again after almost 2 years on the shelf. he still throws in the low to mid 90s, and he’s still under team control for 6 years, so even after having those surgeries, and even though there’s virtually no chance he’ll be a starter, he’s got a ton of value. he’s the absolute worst case scenario for a pitching prospect, but even so, he’s not worthless.
you’re perception of value, both halladay’s and drabek’s is off base.
human beings, who are almost unique in their ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
by variablesdont on Jul 8, 2025 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is about a ZERO percent chance of Drabek ever being as good as Halladay is right now. From a Blue Jays standpoint, can you please convince me why I should trade arguably the best pitcher in the game for a guy who most certainly isn’t a top prospect? Drabek is a good prospect, he’s far from being on of the best pitching prospects in the game.
He’s mowing down hitters? 36/17 strikeout to walk ratio in 46.2 innings, he’s also showing to be a flyball pitcher. Yawn. Lets not start sucking this guy off yet, fance ERA but his splits aren’t anything elite and he’s still giving up almost a hit an inning.
by metafour on Jul 8, 2025 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm a realist at heart
i’ve got no problem saying that drabek has a 0% chance to be the next roy halladay. style wise, there’s just no comparison. and that’s not even considering how legitimately great roy halladay is at what he does. i also have no problem saying that i value roy halladay as a pitcher right now more than i value even drabek’s best case scenario.
but, for 6 years of drabek at an estimated average cost of 4 million per season, there is such a low threshold for him to be valuable and his potential is so great that he doesn;t need to come close to reaching that potential for him to be a huge value for the phillies. and if he does reach that potential, there’s virtually noone in baseball who’d be a better value.
human beings, who are almost unique in their ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
by variablesdont on Jul 8, 2025 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If thats your view then you might as well not even talk trade. Not sure if you’re aware, but you usually need to give up either good players or good prospects to get very good proven major league players. When you’re talking about a potential HOF pitcher in his prime signed for another 1.5 years at peanuts to performance its going to take even more. The idea of Drabek being untouchable is laughable, why would Toronto trade a proven All-Star/Cy Young pitcher if they’re not going to get someone back who has the possibility of being similarly as good. Thats what you’re trading here…potential for proven results, there have been hundreds of pitchers of Drabek’s ability who have flopped. I can tell you that Toronto isn’t going to trade Halladay in this juncture unless the other team is talking multiple top prospects, and by top I dont mean #5-10 guys like Donald and Carrasco.
by metafour on Jul 8, 2025 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
If your view is you wont trade Roy Hallday unless the players you get back have a chance of being better than him, than perhaps YOU should not even talk trade.
I think youre way off on the return. There arent goint to be anything resembling Smoak + Feliz packages. Drabek, Taylor + a couple other very good prospects is about as good a return as they can hope for.
God, I hate the trade talk this time of year…
by alskor on Jul 8, 2025 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, it doesn’t get any more tolerable at other times, does it?
Prospective parent of new pick, Zack Wheeler. Projectable Righty stolen from the braves. Of course, I stalk my son's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/zackwheelerbaseball
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
by haverecords on Jul 9, 2025 6:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who said anything about getting players back that will be better? VERY few prospects have a shot at being better than Halladay. The point is that when you trade a superstar you better get prospects back that have star upside, that comes down to the #1 prospect (or a young MLB player) being the #1 piece in ANY offer.
I never said Feliz + Smoak. ONE of them would have to be in any Texas deal (which wont happen anyway because of their current financial standing), thats simply a reply to multiple offers from Texas fans who seem to think they’re going to get it done without including one of their two top prospects.
The Brewers gave up LaPorta for half a season of Sabathia. LaPorta was a Top 25 prospect (and still is)…how is it ridiculous for me to suggest that any team trading is going to have to include their top prospect PLUS more? Not only is Halladay better than Sabathia but he is also under contract for a full season more, and in the Sabathia case Cleveland HAD to trade him because he was 100% gone at the end of the year.
Again, Roy Halladay’s trade value was estimated by Fangraphs to be just under $40-million. His total value to any team is $60 million and he’s being paid $22 million throughout the remainder of his deal.
What does $40 million in value look like? Something like three terrific prospects who are not that far from the majors. No one’s giving up players from the Matt Wieters/David Price mold, but it’s going to take several players from that second prospect tier, the top 25-50 type guys.
Phillies fans - that’s Dominic Brown, Kyle Drabek, and Carlos Carrasco. Mets fans? Fernando Martinez, Wilmer Flores, and Jenrry Mejia.
You get the idea. If the Blue Jays trade Roy Halladay, they’re going to ask for the moon. And they should. He’s worth it.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/roy-halladays-trade-value/
by metafour on Jul 9, 2025 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You:
There is about a ZERO percent chance of Drabek ever being as good as Halladay is right now. From a Blue Jays standpoint, can you please convince me why I should trade arguably the best pitcher in the game for a guy who most certainly isn’t a top prospect?
Then:
Who said anything about getting players back that will be better? VERY few prospects have a shot at being better than Halladay.
Theres no point trying to rationalize that. the idea that Drabek is untouchable is laughable. As a BJ’s fan I dont think I’d even be happy with the prospects the Phillies would send, and these guys want to make a midget who’s already blown his elbow untouchable? Good luck with that.
by alskor on Jul 9, 2025 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1, sorta
I’m not really sold that home run offers that people are expecting will materialize, when you factor in all the conditions. That said, I think they’ll get good offers. Whether or not that’s enough to pull the trigger, we’ll have to wait and see. This isn’t to say that Halladay isn’t worth a home run offer.
by toonsterwu on Jul 8, 2025 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Simply put, theres no point in trading Halladay right now unless the offer is one that outright decimates the opposing team’s ML system. I cant believe people are suggesting trades with returns less than what guys like Bedard and Haren brought. Halladay is under contract for two playoff runs (this one and all of next year) thus he’s not a rent-a-player, and his contract is extremely friendly considering that half these teams that are looking at him (Phillies, Dodgers, every other contending team) is going to be looking at paying pitchers nowhere near as good as Halladay almost as much as he’s making right now in Free Agency after this season ends (it always happens).
Anyone who thinks a package revolving around Carrasco (who sucks, BTW) and Donald (flop this season) is going to get Halladay is nuts. I can understand a guy like Wieters being untouchable, but Drabek? C’mon.
by metafour on Jul 8, 2025 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who's proposing a package centered around carrasco and donald?
i mentioned their names, i know, but presumably the name at the top of that ticket would be the 29 year old in the first year of a two year contract who’s had an .860 OPS three straight years, and is currently being paid 2 million this season.
i also would disagree about your valuation of carlos carrasco, but there are bigger fish to fry. i’ll leave it at, you’re flat wrong about this, too.
human beings, who are almost unique in their ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
by variablesdont on Jul 8, 2025 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, that was the reason for my sorta
I wasn’t really commenting on any specific package. I just am not sold that a “home run” deal, akin to the Bedard deal, will materialize, with how teams have been more protective, well, overprotective, of their young talent in recent years, and the economy (more due to giving up cheap young talent) (both tie in together). I think they should be able to net a “standard” deal (using, say, the Colon deal, as an example), a ready, quality young talent, a solid mid-tier guy, and an upside guy. Whether or not Ricciardi pulls the trigger on that, I dunno.
by toonsterwu on Jul 8, 2025 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phils will have to mortage the future a bit...
I think that a deal of 4 players would work along the lines of Drabek, Happ, Marson or Donald, and a high upside low level guy like Gose or Hewitt.
I don’t think the Phils give up two of the Drabek, Taylor, and Brown trio. I think ultimately the package for Halladay is going to look similar to Santana deal. I don’t know does the above deal work?
Slowey is a control freak, and I like it!!
by melonhead202 on Jul 8, 2025 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
simple question..
would you deal halladay for Drabek, Happ, Marson or Donald? Hell no.
If you are the Jays, you demand two of the 3 studs and THEN include a guy like Marson.
If i were teh Jays Id want Drabek, Taylor, Donald, and Collier.
by jsmall404 on Jul 9, 2025 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who are the three studs in this conversation?
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by OldProspects on Jul 9, 2025 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 3 studs
would be Drabek/Taylor/Brown. jsmall404 is saying you have to get two of those three in a deal for Halladay.
RIP Nick Adenhart
by gatling on Jul 9, 2025 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm...
As a Rays fan, I’d love to see him in Tampa. I doubt they’d do it unless they could jettison Wheeler/Percy’s contracts or inlude Kaz as the major chip. I doubt the Jays would want Kaz, but I think the Rays are more likely to trade him at this point than Davis.
by rglass44 on Jul 8, 2025 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Atlanta
There have been murmors around the interwebz of the Bravos possibley shopping Vazquez. What if they moved Vazquez, and then traded Yunel to the Jays? They’d probably expect a SS for Vasquez, but I wonder if that would work.
by rglass44 on Jul 8, 2025 3:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thats interesting
I could see that. Braves ship Yunel, Freeman and Delgado?
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
by Metty5 on Jul 8, 2025 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it would probably be more like Yunel and Hanson
and the Braves wouldnt want it.
by alskor on Jul 8, 2025 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed thats what I would ask for
If i’m the Jays- but I agree that there is no way the Braves go for that in today’s age. I was thinking of something both sides might agree on.
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
by Metty5 on Jul 8, 2025 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought...
Toronto said a young starter with top end potential would have to be in the deal.
by joegonzo on Jul 8, 2025 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man.....
Only if we hadn’t signed Lowe, we could definitely make a deal for Halladay! I really don’t think that the Braves would have to give up Heyward or Hanson in a deal. But even with Lowe I still think we could get him with something like this.
Blue Jays get:
Yunel Escobar - SS
Kris Medlen - SP
Freddie Freeman - 1B
Cole Rohrbough - SP
Braves get:
Roy Halladay - SP
___________________________________________________________________________
Then…..
Brewers get:
Javier Vazquez - SP
Jeff Francoeur - OF
Manny Acosta - RP
Braves get:
J.J. Hardy - SS
Corey Hart - OF
by Jay212033 on Jul 8, 2025 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Somehow, I don't think major league teams are intentionally trying to make the Braves awesome.
The Halladay trade actually isn’t that bad. Solid balance of arms and position players, some nice upside. I don’t think it’d end up wowing anybody in the long run, but at least they’d have SOME immediate value coming back to them.
But that Brewers trade is just plain ugh. The Brewers take on noted headcases Vazquez and Francouer in exchange for punting on two good players having off-years?
by mrkupe on Jul 8, 2025 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Corey Hart's an eh
Basically, the Brewers deal assumes that they decide they really need to add an impact starter, and are okay with Alcides Escobar coming up now. I do think that the Braves would probably have to replace Francoeur with a real prospect/young player, but I don’t think that deal is crazy
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by OldProspects on Jul 8, 2025 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont know if the Braves would give up
Escobar, Medlen, Freeman, Rohrbough, Vazquez, Francouer, and Acosta for Halladay.
Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst
by hero66 on Jul 8, 2025 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Halladay is from the Colorado
I don’t know that he would automatically void the deal. I think Chacin, Fowler and something else would interest the Jays.
by solace on Jul 8, 2025 4:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
cool didn't know that
it just doesn’t seem like a place pitchers want to pitch lol.
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
by Metty5 on Jul 8, 2025 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Texas again
It seems when JD is quiet about things, he’s working hard behind the scenes.
Above someone looks puts out the idea of Davis, Borbon, Max Ramirez, and Martin Perez.
I think a good combination might be Saltalamacchia, Hunter, Moreland, Carlos Pimentel.
This one appears to be a little thin compared to the other one, but Hunter is probably one of the few ML-ready pitchers the Rangers might consider giving up (maybe Harrison could be considered). I guess the idea is similar — a couple of ML-ready guys that could be at least regulars plus a couple of prospects with upside.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
by rooster on Jul 8, 2025 4:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Whaaaaaa
Your trade proposal would make for a steal of obscene proportions by the Rangers. Salty hasn’t looked good in years. Hunter isn’t anybody you’d miss or anybody you’d remember having, for that matter. Moreland is the most intriguing player in the deal and even he has significant questions . . .I’m not sure I’d do this package for Eric Bedard let alone Halladay.
by mrkupe on Jul 8, 2025 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea...
I don’t think they would want Davis either because of all the corner guys they have. I think they would probably want a package like Holland, Borbon, Teagarden, and another prospect.
by joegonzo on Jul 8, 2025 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harrison instead of Holland?
I think what you have above is a reasonable hope from Toronto’s perspective, if they want ML-ready guys. If Holland is in there, I think two of Holland, Borbon, Teagarden. If it’s Borbon/Teagarden, the prospect part probably gets inflated by another prospect.
BTW, I think Salty is the better bet to be a significant MLer of the two catchers. He’s made massive, tangible steps forward in his catching skills. HIs bat looks better than Teagarden’s. Right now he’s just learning how much effort it is to do it all, but he has a much better chance to be a .280-.300 hitter with 20+ HR.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
by rooster on Jul 8, 2025 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
meh
Why would Toronto want Matt Harrison? The only things that guy is (and probably ever will be) major league ready for is giving up 7 earned runs in 5 innings and going on the disabled list with a sore shoulder.
I think you’re overrating the value of the Texas prospects. Holland is a good one but even the inclusion of both Borbon and Teagarden (both boom or bust prospects) means that you still might be totally looking to Holland to give you value for perennial Cy Young candidate and epitome of workhorse Roy Halladay.
If you wanted to propose a deal involving Holland (not that I would believe he’s up for trade until I actually saw it), then I think it’d be something along the lines of Holland, a young pitching prospect who isn’t quite elite (Carlos Pimentel? Omar Poveda? Wilmer Font?), and Marcus Lemon (a safe guy to make a major league roster as guy #23-25 with a possibility of playing up into a starting role).
by mrkupe on Jul 8, 2025 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Rangers got
Halladay then we would have to give up either Feliz, Perez or Holland. I think Borbon is definitely possibility or they would probably want either Salty or Teagarden. Plus a Wilmer Font, Boscan type prospect to boot
1) Feliz/Holland/Perez
2) Tea/Salty/Borbon
3) Font/Boscan/Poveda
4) MAYBE vallejo or lemon is they dont bite on above deal
That would certainly weaken the syste of the Rangers but I dont believe it would drop them out of the top 5-7 (assuming Schep and Purke sign). Plus they would have leveraged their farm system into getting an ace. I would probably do the deal above
by Michael Cave on Jul 9, 2025 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Texas has the Money...
Smoak or Feliz HAVE to be in the deal (if not both), if it’s Feliz then the Jays will want Davis too…there’s now way they’re doing a deal for mid-level prospects.
by bunner on Jul 9, 2025 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Texas has lots of guys who arent Smoak or Feliz but are far better than "mid-level prospects"
I think they could get a deal done without those two. Lets say Andrus (the young SS the Jays covet), Derek Holland, Martin Perez and Blake Beaven.
Firs off, I think I like that better than most of the Phillies’ offers Ive seen. No way in hell the Jays would turn that down.
by alskor on Jul 9, 2025 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you can pretty much give up any idea of Texas moving Andrus due to fact that postional scarcity and a lack of an internal replacemnt for Texas
second off, you would be talking about 2 guys that where in BA top 25 this offseason, then a guy that is in the top 50 right now. No way Texas would be willing to give that much. That would be dramatically more than the other packages bounced around here.
The other problem would be why would Texas move Andrus when he is the key for their defensive upgrade? They would be closing one hole to open up two more.
I would expect Texas to offer something along the lines of Feliz or Holland, Borbon, Teagarden, Kiker or Beavan, Vallejo or Lemon and Boscan or Ross or Font.
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
by laxtonto on Jul 9, 2025 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually made that point in another post on this thread
My point was Texas can definitely put together a good enough package that doesnt include Feliz or Smoak…
by alskor on Jul 9, 2025 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Easily
that is the funny thing about the Texas farm… There are guys in the 10-20 range on Texas list that could stand a shot at making some teams top 10. Deep, deep system.
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
by laxtonto on Jul 9, 2025 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Irrelevant
It is VERY doubtful that Halladay would ever waive his no trade clause to go to Texas’ hitters park.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Jul 9, 2025 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best Fits
The Phillies and Red Sox are easily the best fits in my opinion. I don’t buy the whole ‘no trading within the division’ and I belive if Boston offers up an attractive package, Toronto would jump on it. I think it will take one high end SP prospect, one SS prospect, and a good third piece that could be anywhere on the diamond. That being said, this is what I see it taking to get a deal done
For Philadelphia: Carlos Carrasco, Michael Taylor, Jason Donald
The Jays get an arm that is close and that has high upside, they get their young shortstop, and they get an elite outfield prospect.
For Boston: Clay Buchholz, Jed Lowrie, Michael Bowden
The Jays get the young centerpiece in Buchholz, they get their young shortstop, and they get a potential mid-rotation innings eater in Bowden.
Honestly, these are the only two legitimate teams in my mind that could make a deal happen. They both have the pieces to get it done, and I believe they would both be willing to take on the salary.
by beane_bag on Jul 8, 2025 5:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Its a shame the Tom Hicks situation
The Rangers would match up soooo well if they were willing to give up Andrus and take on that money. They have the arms to spare. Maybe they could even swing some young arms for another SS that Toronto likes. Rangers with Halladay win the West, IMO. They might anyway, of course, but man… they get real dangerous with Doc up top.
Is he selling Liverpool, too? They seem to be unwilling to sell any of their stars.
by alskor on Jul 8, 2025 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rangers would love to have
Halladay but NO WAY Andrus’ name would even come up on the rangers side and if it came up on the Jays side JD would say no thanks.
by Michael Cave on Jul 9, 2025 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't see...
Philly getting it done without Drabek. The Boston deal is A LOT better than what the Phillies are giving up. I might actually take Bowden over Carrasco let alone Buchholz, Jed Lowrie is much better than Donald, and Taylor is not as valuable as Bowden or Buchholz.
by joegonzo on Jul 8, 2025 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I really doubt that the Jays go for a deal without a SP prospect with front rotation potential. I think that it would have to be a four player package.
Drabek (Needs to be there for Ricciardi to consider the deal)
Happ
Donald
High Upside/Risk lower level prospect
Slowey is a control freak, and I like it!!
by melonhead202 on Jul 8, 2025 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh
I doubt Halladay (if he is indeed traded) gets nearly as much as many are guessing. Teams just don’t like adding big salaries, and Halladay is neither young, cheap nor signed long term.
Halladay is not as valuable as Josh Beckett was when he was traded to Boston, or Dan Haren when he was traded to the D’Backs, because those guys were cheap (relaitvely) and still under team control. Should be closer to what the A’s got for Mark Mulder or Tim Hudson, or what the Twins received for Johan Santana, situations where many projected the return to be far greater than what it turned out to be.
And while the Bedard deal looks absolutely terrible now, it’s largely because the players the Orioles received have all panned out extremely well.
by T Pac on Jul 8, 2025 5:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
its a little different
-Halladay is better than those guys at the time of the trade, minus Johan. Id say he’s more valuable than Beckett at the time of the trade
-Toronto has no need to move him
-Toronto can easily let him walk and take two picks, so any offer will start with two stud prospects and theyve said as much
-The fact the Twins blew the Santana trade and overplayed their hand serves as a warning to other GMs
-Halladay isnt cheap or young, no… but he’s not old, nor is he particularly expensive. He’s pretty reasonably priced and aged
Also, the Bedard trade was a joke at the time. Everyone knew the Mariners were getting fleeced except for Bill Bavasi and Steve Phillips (who loved the trade and pick the M’s to win the division IIRC). That trade was awful at the time and is awful now. Its not a surprise at all what has happened to the prospects involved - or Bedard, for that matter.
I do agree there is a very strong chance he doesnt get traded, though.
by alskor on Jul 8, 2025 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree about Beckett — he was already an elite pitcher and only 25 years old. More importantly, he was getting paid peanuts (relatively) and not eligible for free agency for another two whole years.
Halladay is reasonably paid for his worth — but that makes him a very expensive player.
As far as the Bedard trade, it was definitely lopsided at the time — but not nearly as bad as it looks in retrospect, considering how Jones and Tillman have turned out.
by T Pac on Jul 8, 2025 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beckett wasnt really elite as much as promising, though. He never pitched more than 178 innings in a season before then.
Career numbers at that point: 103 GS, 609 IP, 41-34 record, 3.46 ERA, ERA+ 118. There was plenty of risk there and he had a reputation for not being able to stay healthy - mostly due to blisters. Everyone LOVED the kid, but he wasnt completely proven by any means. I dont think most people would have listed him among the best pitchers in the game at that point - certainly not the way you would answer “Halladay” right now…
Halladay has about $7M left this year and a $15.75M option. For an Ace starter that just cant be characterized as “very expensive.” Nearly every team could afford that for an Ace pitcher. Most arent willing to, or dont want to pay that and the acquisition cost… but hell, its only a year and a half commitment, too. That makes him affordable for plenty of teams that could never sign a guy like that because they cant commit the 5-7 years at that price it typically takes to sign a player of that quality.
Did anyone have any doubts Tillman or Jones would turn out like this…? That trade was a joke and Bill Bavasi was a clown.
by alskor on Jul 8, 2025 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uhm, what?
Halladay is under contract until 2010…thats a year and half, not even close to being a rental player or a guy who you’re going to have to extend right away. Furthermore, Halladay IS cheap considering he’s arguably the best pitcher in baseball and isn’t even close to making as much as guys like Sabathia. Salary to performance he is cheap, no question about it.
Half of these suggestions suck so far. Reid Brignac? Carrasco? What? LMFAO @ the Rangers offers which dont include Smoak or Feliz.
by metafour on Jul 8, 2025 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you.
Halladay is friggin elite. He’s going to command a beyond massive haul.
I’m thinking equal to Haren deal.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 8, 2025 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More
I think he could get more then Haren. Halladay is one of the top 3 pitchers in the game and would put up obscene numbers in the NL. If the Jays do move him you can bet it will be for a top young starter and at least 2 great bats.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Jul 9, 2025 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some of you don’t seem to be able to differentiate how good a player is versus how much trade value a player has. Big, big difference.
by T Pac on Jul 9, 2025 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Value
I think Halladay has tremendous trade value, even greater then Haren had. People forget that Doc still has 1.5 years remaining on a very affordable contract. He gets around the same as Derick Lowe per season but is arguably the BEST pitcher in baseball. Unlike Haren, who many in baseball knew needed to be moved by Beane, Halladay doesn’t NEED to be dealt from Toronto. Teams will have to blow JP away to acquire this number 1 starter and that puts the advantage in the Jays corner. If the Jays do feel the need to move Doc, you can bet that they will be getting a huge haul in return.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Jul 9, 2025 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you're right
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 9, 2025 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only reason I said equal
is because Haren was controlled for 1.5 years more (prior to that extension) than Halladay would be.
Halladay is easily, easily the better pitcher, its just factoring in control.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 9, 2025 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Mets could do it
It would just cripple their farm system. Something like F-Mart, Holt, Mejia, and Tejeda is most likely a better package than Toronto is actually going to get, judging by non-Bedard recent precedents. Of course, then the Mets would still have to find another starter, a new training staff, and another two bats.
by aap212 on Jul 8, 2025 5:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yankees are out
Joel Sherman talked to Yankee officials who said there is “zero chance” they trade for Halladay.
http://twitter.com/nyp_joelsherman/status/2538505491
Im not convinced they had the bullets anyway. Montero is awesome, but Jackson isnt a fit and then they get real short on impact players… unless theyre willing to discuss Joba, Cano, etc… and I cant imagine they would.
by alskor on Jul 8, 2025 5:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah
If the Yankees want in they need Montero + one of Joba or Hughes to start the talk.
Cano doesn’t do much for Toronto. unless they plan on moving Hill back to short. I like Cano more than hill long term (this year’s 40 HR pace Aaron Hill non-withstanding). but the difference isn’t large in the near term.
I think what the Jays REALLY need is for someon to take Vernon Wells contract off their hand though. otherwise this is pointless. they’re never going to win if they’re paying a sub replacement guy 20M in a division where two teams spend almost twice as much as they do.
by RollingWave on Jul 9, 2025 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a Braves Fan but......
I think the Mets and Phils would greatly benefit by getting a guy like Halladay. If either team got him that would easily win them the NL East and make them WS contenders. Santana and Halladay or Hamels and Halladay WOW!
Here are the deals I would offer if I were the GM for those teams.
Blue Jays get:
J.A. Happ - SP
Carlos Carrasco - SP
Michael Taylor - OF
Kyle Drabek - SP
Jason Donald - SS
Phillies get:
Roy Halladay - SP
_________________________________________________________________
Blue Jays get:
Fernando Martinez - OF
Jon Niese - SP
Jenrry Mejia - SP
Wilmer Flores - SS
Josh Thole - C
Mets get:
Roy Halladay - SP
by Jay212033 on Jul 8, 2025 7:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I gotta imagine that
the Blue Jays would take the Phillies package if it was offered. Mets package, not so sure on.
by toonsterwu on Jul 8, 2025 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Phillies package is........
more attractive but the Mets package isn’t bad either.
by Jay212033 on Jul 8, 2025 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right...
the Mets package is good… but not a great fit. Donald is a middle infielder. Flores is only one in name.
by alskor on Jul 8, 2025 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Jays would take either of those trades
Given recent precedents of blockbuster trades, those are pretty nice packages. Probably unrealistically nice. I would imagine the Phils wouldn’t give up both Drabek and Carrasco.
by aap212 on Jul 8, 2025 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a Mets fan
That would be awful for the franchise. I don’t know if that would be overpaying too much, necessarily, probably a little bit, but it would set the franchise back years. I’ll take my chances with the guys in the system.
by Fanon on Jul 8, 2025 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most Met Fans
Thought they had given up too much in the Santana deal as well. None of those guys are even close to making an impact on the Twins. Gomez was ok last season but is horrible this season, Mulvey flat out stinks , Humber was released wasn’t he and Guerra……. well he still has a chance but he stinks so far as well.
by Jay212033 on Jul 8, 2025 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a fair statement
I loved the trade when the Mets made it, and was amazed the Twins didn’t come away with Pelfrey instead of Humber AND Martinez instead of Gomez, let alone neither. Humber and Mulvey were at best middle of the rotation starters in the making.
Guerra wasn’t nearly as accomplished as Mejia is now. Niese is a rich man’s version of what Mulvey was then. Martinez was raking in AAA as a 20-year old. Flores has terrific upside, and Thole has been looking very good. It’s a deep, diverse package of prospects with long-term upside and some ready-now or ready-soon talent. The Santana trade was basically party favors with a couple of lottery tickets in it.
by aap212 on Jul 8, 2025 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one thought that
Everyone thought the Mets stole him.
by aCone419 on Jul 9, 2025 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Which Mets fans are you referring to?
Because I’ve never encountered them.
by Fanon on Jul 9, 2025 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the Cubs will make a run
but I would note that the Cubs probably match up quite well, and I think they have enough chips for one big deal. Top talent like Josh Vitters or Starlin Castro could fit positional concerns for them. Arms like Jay Jackson and Andrew Cashner are both at AA and could be PTBNL’d into the trade. Stopgap talent is definitely available (like Darwin Barney, who could perhaps stopgap at short if they want to save money).
by toonsterwu on Jul 8, 2025 8:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Vitters
would get a conversation started, but then it would go nowhere. Castro is interesting, but he’s too far away from the majors to be a key part of the deal. The rest of the Cubs system is filler and stopgaps, which won’t get it done. The Cubs can make a decent offer, but their farm is not strong enough to beat out other bidders
by NoGimmicks on Jul 9, 2025 4:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fangraphs calculates Halladay's surplus value at somewhere in the $40M range
That is, not to put too fine a point on it, batshit insane crazy high.
Phillies fans - that’s Dominic Brown, Kyle Drabek, and Carlos Carrasco. Mets fans? Fernando Martinez, Wilmer Flores, and Jenrry Mejia.
Seems reasonable to me, as I really don’t see Toronto needing to move him if the offer isn’t good enough.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2025 8:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd add a 4th lower level prospect to both those deals.
JP has too much leverage not to get one more prospect in those deals.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 8, 2025 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think McPhail set a bit of a standard...
Always try to get a couple throw-ins on those deals. The 4th and 5th players are gravy.
by ADLC on Jul 8, 2025 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there a team willing to trade there 3 top prospects for him
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 8, 2025 9:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the astros probably would
bu that would not the true value… So would Det if Porcello has burnt his prospect status now
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
by laxtonto on Jul 9, 2025 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So sadly
the Positive value of Roy Halladay is worth less than the negative value of Vernon Wells. HOLY SHIT. thanks JP>
by RollingWave on Jul 9, 2025 2:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mets offer.
The Mets can and should offer the following:
Pelfrey
Holt
Martinez
Pelfrey has enough potential to be a #2 SP. He’s already proven to be successful at the big league level, unlike anyone the Phillies can offer. The Mets make this deal because it gives them the best 1 / 2 punch in baseball since, oh… Schilling / Johnson in Arizona? how’d that work out for them?
by runreyesrun on Jul 9, 2025 11:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i wouldn't
do it if i were the Jays unless you also throw in Flores.
And I think this might not be enough to save them this year anyway. as sad as that sounds.
by RollingWave on Jul 9, 2025 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. The only reason the Mets get Holliday is for next year. The only thing that can save the Mets right now is the miracle return to health off all their major players on the DL.
by Lunkwill Fook on Jul 9, 2025 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It gives them a great 1/2 punch
For a season and a half, and the half will probably be irrelevant.
by Fanon on Jul 9, 2025 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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