Hypothetical (Jays top 30) if they deal Halladay

by Alfamale on Jul 23, 2025 4:25 PM EDT Comment 56 comments

so lets say the Jays trade Doc to the Phillies for the rumoured package of:

Kyle Drabek
Michael Taylor
Carlos Carrasco
Jason Donald

lets also take for granted that all of this years draftees sign their minor league contracts. what would our TOP 30 PLAYERS NOT CURRENTLY IN THE MAJORS look like after that? in my opinion, we'd be top 3 in the league, and it would look something like this:

1. Travis Snider
2. Kyle Drabek
3. Michael Taylor
4. JP Arencibia
5. Carlos Carrasco
6. Chad Jenkins
7. James Paxton
8. David Cooper

9. Brad Mills

10.. Moises Sierra
11. Brian Dopirak
12. John Tolisano
13. Tim Collins
14. Jason Donald
15. Danny Farquhar
16. Justin Jackson
17. Kevin Ahrens
18. Jake Marisnick
19. Jake Barrett
20. Eric Thames
21. Tyler Pastornicky
22. Darin Mastroianni
23. Balbino Fuenmayor
24. Kenny Wilson
25. Johermyn Chavez
26. Brad Emaus
27. Eric Eiland
28. Carlos Perez

29. Gustavo Pierre

30. Trystan Magnuson

Others Notables: Markus Brisker, Santiago Nessy, Michael Crouse, Gari Pena, Ryan Schimpf, Ryan Goins, KC Hobson, Brian Jeroloman, Alan Farina, Egan Smith, Henderson Alvarez, Joel Carreno, Mike McDade, Bobby Bell, Adam Loewen, Luis Perez, Kenny Rodriguez, Scott Campbell. Fabio Castro.

this could even be the best minor league system in baseball.

what number would YOU put this group?

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Read More: Jason Donald (SS - CLE), Kyle Drabek (P - PHI), Carlos Carrasco (P - CLE), Travis Snider (RF - TOR), Philadelphia Phillies

Comments

Phillies won't...

give up that much in a deal for Halliday. maybe Drabek, Taylor, Donald, and a low level prospect, but they won’t include Carrasco too.

by joegonzo on Jul 23, 2025 4:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Unless they get a Haren-like haul

They shouldnt trade him at all

Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst

by hero66 on Jul 23, 2025 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Haren was worth more

imo. his contract was too friendly to ignore.

by daveh33 on Jul 23, 2025 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why?

I don’t think Buster Olney’s the best sportswriter in the world, but he’s been dead on from the very beginning of this Halladay thing in one regard: his value will only go down from here on out. Halladay wants to test the free agent market after next year, and the Blue Jays aren’t making the playoffs this year or next, so Ricciardi should extract maximum value for Halladay now.

Honestly though — and not being a smartass at all — can someone make an argument as to why it makes sense for the Jays to hold onto him?

by PhillyFriar on Jul 23, 2025 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you

but I’ll take the devil’s advocate view of “Why not?”. The talent on the Jays has never been questioned - what if they put it together next year and Wells/Rios are consistent offensive forces, they get consistent end of the pen work, and their young starters fill out the rotation nicely. Suddenly .. that’s a team that can compete. The sad thing for the Blue Jays all these years with this current core has been that, if they’d be in another division, they probably compete for division titles on a more regular basis.

In saying all that, my personal opinion is that Ricciardi will pull the trigger if he gets a trade he likes. It may not be a knock your socks off, Danny Haren type deal. I think a “good” deal, whatever JP defines as one, and he pulls the trigger if he can’t get that elite deal.

by toonsterwu on Jul 23, 2025 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You don't settle here

This is probably a top 5 pitchers in baseball. You don’t settle for a deal when you don’t have to.

Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst

by hero66 on Jul 23, 2025 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Probably?

You could make a strong argument that Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball when you factor in his durability, the division he pitches in, and how deep he goes into games.

by PissedMick on Jul 24, 2025 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They should hold onto him if they think they can compete next year

by alskor on Jul 24, 2025 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

nitpick

It’s Eric Thames

Touch em all Joe...

by FisherCat on Jul 23, 2025 4:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

eric thames

right you are.

anyone care to rank this group, even if you don’t believe this is a likely deal..

by Alfamale on Jul 23, 2025 4:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Travis Snider isn't prospect-eligible.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Jul 23, 2025 4:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Snider

sure he is. i could have also added Brett Cecil, and Marc Rzepcynzski, who would have likely can in as #4 and #6 respectively. Also, Ricky Romero could be in there, and is definitely top 10, and possibly top 5.

by Alfamale on Jul 23, 2025 4:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not eligible

Snider has more than 130 MLB ab’s. Cecil has more than 50 IP in MLB. Neither is still eligible for rookie/prospect status after this season.

by amisaid1 on Jul 23, 2025 5:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

hefty

thats a lot the phillies are giving up there.

by mjr20 on Jul 23, 2025 5:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

snider

oh well about the specifics, fact is the guy is 21. he’s still a prospect to me.

by Alfamale on Jul 23, 2025 5:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Felix Hernandez

still the number prospect for the Mariners

by gogotabata on Jul 23, 2025 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

got a chuckle out of that

by gorilla_baller on Jul 23, 2025 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

if only

I’d remember the dang “one” — too eager to crack a joke, as always

by gogotabata on Jul 23, 2025 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not top 3

As a Jays fan, I think that would be severely overrating them. Drabek and Taylor are the only locks to be top 100 guys (though Carrasco probably has a shot and is almost certainly a better prospect than Arencibia at this point). There is definitely depth to this group but not the enough of the top level prospects necessary to place near the top of the organizational rankings. Also, I think Moises Sierra is underrated on that list and could have a very outside chance of being a top 100 guy after this season. I’d probably have him fourth behind Drabek, Taylor, and Carrasco. I also think Eric Thames and Tyler Pastornicky are underrated on this list as well.

by GoJays7 on Jul 23, 2025 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

Excellent response. I’m not sure that’s a top 3 system either. I think a big trade like the hypothetical that the OP posted would take the Blue Jays from probably a 18-25 system to maybe borderline top 10.

I also think that Dopirak is rated a tad too high at 10.

by toonsterwu on Jul 23, 2025 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Probably wouldn't even be top 3 in the AL East

1) Red Sox
2a) 2b)Tampa and Baltimore are very close
4) Then Toronto

by AL ONLY GM on Jul 23, 2025 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

as an aside

I sort of have a soft spot for the Yankees system in that, I think it gets bashed more than it ought to, but I think there’s some intriguing solid assets in there. I think the Yankees system has some depth, but the top shelf is still developing. That said, I’mnot disagreeing. I think the Yankees system would rank last if this hypothetical trade happened.

by toonsterwu on Jul 23, 2025 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Let’s put it this way. Last year, David Cooper was rated #5 in the Blue Jays system. This year, according to your list, once you excise Travis Snider from the list, Cooper is rated #7. Considering Cooper’s value probably dropped this year, that really doesn’t say very much about the progress you claim

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by OldProspects on Jul 23, 2025 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

felix hernandez

lol @ that comparison.

King Felix is 23 and has thrown 800+ innings. Snider is 21, has 173 ml ab’s, and is currently playing in AAA.

by Alfamale on Jul 23, 2025 7:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

felix

oh well about the specifics, fact is the guy is 23. he’s still a prospect to me.

by gogotabata on Jul 23, 2025 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

got an outright laugh from that one…

by slickterp on Jul 23, 2025 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

-1

Snider doesn’t qualify as a rookie, yes, but he’s still a prospect because he’s not currently playing in the majors.

Felix obviously isn’t a prospect because he’s a number 1 starter…

by Alfamale on Jul 23, 2025 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I will say that

what defines a prospect is certainly a debatable question to a certain extent. That said, I think most people use the rookie status as a definition of whether a guy is still a prospect or not.

by toonsterwu on Jul 23, 2025 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dear Allfemale

Just having some fun. But, you just kinda have to accept the community standards for prospect.

by gogotabata on Jul 24, 2025 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Does Dontrelle Willis count for the Tigers?

How about Matt Harrison for the Rangers? Both are playing in the minors

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by OldProspects on Jul 24, 2025 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

trade

Something more like Taylor, Donald, Carrasco, and another mid level prospect sounds more like it, I think the jays should consider adding a player to the trade, most likely a reliever.

by daman316 on Jul 23, 2025 7:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

lol

not nearly enough

by ayjackson on Jul 23, 2025 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

if that other mid level prospect is named knapp, it might be closer than you think.

human beings, who are almost unique in their ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.

by variablesdont on Jul 23, 2025 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think that

Donald and Carrasco have been incredibly overrated lately.

Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst

by hero66 on Jul 23, 2025 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

really?

I tend to think that Carrasco is a bit underrated now. People seem to be dumping on him, and I still think he’s got a shot at being a decent mid-rotation starter.

by toonsterwu on Jul 23, 2025 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

totally agree with you on carrasco

donald though…yep he is way overrated. wouldn’t touch him.

baseball rules.

by doublestix on Jul 23, 2025 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh agree on donald

sorry should’ve been clear that I was only speaking on Carrasco. I’m not sure what happened to Donald, but seriously, I think I’d rather have Chin-lung Hu than Donald at short. At least, I know Hu will vacuum up the position at a top rate.

by toonsterwu on Jul 23, 2025 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you're off on this

donald shat the bed so far this year, but his upside is still as a near .900 OPS SS.

human beings, who are almost unique in their ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.

by variablesdont on Jul 24, 2025 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Donald projects to be around an .800+ SS or 3B in his career prime. His defense at SS will never be great but he still has plenty of value. Do not let a off year with injuries detract from his value too much.

I have severe doubts of whether Hu will be even hit moderately well in the MLB. He is value is in his defense but his bat simply does not project anymore for me. He reminds me of a slightly better version of Oswaldo Navarro who played in hitter’s parks his enter MILB career.

Also, Carrasco has plenty of potential as a 3 or 4 starter. I never saw him as having a high upside but he is closer to that potential than plenty of other starters in AAA are to theirs. His peripherals are still very impressive with a 3/1 K/BB and HR/9 in line with his past couple of years.

by tdot mariner fan on Jul 24, 2025 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I think of Carrasco as a decent 3 or good 4

But nothing more than that. I think some are viewing him as more than that which is what I disagree with. And Donald….don’t get me started…

Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst

by hero66 on Jul 24, 2025 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

for Drabek

if i was the Jays i’d make it absolutely necessary that the Phils include Drabek. I think the Jays would have to add in another legit prospect to make this happen.

The Jays should offer up one of: Kevin Ahrens, Justin Jackson, David Cooper, to make the deal a little more palatable for Philly.

by Alfamale on Jul 23, 2025 7:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

for the phils?

Isn’t this about the phils trading for the number pitcher in baseball and you want the jays to add prospects to the package?

sigh….

by tuna411 on Jul 24, 2025 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

add "one"

As in number one pitcher in baseball

by tuna411 on Jul 24, 2025 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

when did the jays get zack?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jul 24, 2025 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay, top 5

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by OldProspects on Jul 24, 2025 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

thanks

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jul 24, 2025 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Henderson Alvarez

I also forgot to mention that this list is missing Henderson Alvarez who is definitely a top 30 guy, most likely a top 20 guy and maybe even around 10.

BA published a very glowing article on him just earlier this week.

by GoJays7 on Jul 23, 2025 7:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You mean top 30, etc of the Blue Jays, right?

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by OldProspects on Jul 23, 2025 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

Yeah, of course. He’s not even a top 100 guy overall, nevermind top 30, 20 or 10. I’m not that much of a homer.

by GoJays7 on Jul 24, 2025 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This post made me think again

that it’d be interesting to try and do a midseason community organizational ranking. I guess I should pick up the ball to get it going, but I really don’t know enough to get it started. But it shouldn’t take that long (give one day for voting perhaps) and it would be a good fun conversation. Of course, the question is where to begin.

by toonsterwu on Jul 23, 2025 11:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Because you only have 30 teams

It might be best to start with a general conversation, and then start the poll with the teams that got serious consideration

TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems

by OldProspects on Jul 24, 2025 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

good idea

what the heck … i’m not sure why i’m so hesitant to start a thread on something like this (guess I figured someone more knowledgeable would be a better way to start… it’s a message board.

by toonsterwu on Jul 24, 2025 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs