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SmackDown: Robinson Cano vs. Jorge Cantu

YOUNG PLAYER SMACKDOWN

Per Request, a "Smackdown" for Robinson Cano and Jorge Cantu, two young infielders from the American League East.

BACKGROUND and INTANGIBLES
Cano: Robinson Cano was signed by the New York Yankees as a free agent in 2001, out of the Dominican Republic. He hit just .230 with marginal peripherals in rookie ball that year, but emerged as a prospect in 2002 by hitting .276 with 14 homers in the South Atlantic League. The son of former major league pitcher Jose Cano, Robinson is comfortable around the game and plays with confidence. His name was mentioned in trade rumors several times in 2003 and 2004, but the Yankees held onto him. In at least one case, the other team involved in the rumor decided that Cano would not develop well defensively, but this assessment was disputed by other clubs and the Yankees themselves. He was born October 22, 1982.
Cantu: Jorge Cantu was signed by the Tampa Bay Devil Rays as a free agent in 1998, out of Mexico. He was signed for his athleticism and defensive skills; his offensive potential was unclear. Cantu debuted in the New York-Penn League in 1999 at the age of 17, very young for the competition. His track record in the minors was not impressive on the surface, but he was always one of the youngest players in his league. His speed was disappointing, but he impressed scouts with his glovework. After a weak 2002 season in Double-A, I gave up on him as a prospect. This was premature, and he started to break out in 2003. He was born January 30, 1982.
Advantage:: I rate this as even. Cano had a higher profile but Cantu wasn't totally out of place playing players 2-3 years older than he was.

PHYSICALITY and TOOLS
Cano: Cano stands 6-0, 170, bats left and throws right. His best tool is his arm. His infield range is rated as just average, at least to his left, but he positions well and can make tough plays. He can also botch routine plays when his concentration slips, but that should get better with time. Offensively, he has good bat speed and does well against fastballs. He has some vulnerability to breaking balls, and his strike zone judgment needs work, but he can make contact even against pitches he probably shouldn't swing at. His raw power is above average. He tends to hit the ball low and has some vulnerability to the double play. He runs well but was tentative on the bases last year. He makes contact against lefties but shows less power against them.
Cantu: Cantu stands 6-1, 185, bats right and throws right. His best tool is his arm. His infield range is rated as just average, and in fact has slipped considerably over where it was in the lower minors. He will make tough plays, but (like Cano) he will botch routine plays more often than he should. Although used at second base and third base last year, he may end up at first base eventually if his range continues to deteriorate. Offensively, he has developed much more power than originally anticipated. Like Cano, Cantu can hit the fastball but will sometimes flail at good breaking stuff. His plate discipline is below average but he makes contact often enough to keep his batting average up despite a very low walk rate. He hits the ball low and is vulnerable to the double play. His running speed is only average. Cantu had a reverse platoon split last year and was actually more effective against righthanders.
Advantage:: This is also close, as these two players share many of the same strengths and weaknesses. They both have power and have hit for average, but they both have poor plate discipline. Neither is a gold glove candidate when it comes to range, but both of them have strong arms. Cano has better speed and that gives him a slight advantage overall in this category.

PERFORMANCE and SKILLS
Cano: Cano has hit .297/.320/.458 in his major league career entering 2006, for an OPS+ of 102. He has made progress refining his defense, and has shown improved overall "general baseball skill" (baserunning, etc.) over the last two seasons. He hit slightly better than you might expect given his minor league track record last year, but given his age this is probably natural growth.
Cantu: Cantu has hit .289/.318/.489 in his major league career entering 2006, for an OPS+ of 112. His offense was poor early in his career, but he broke out big in 2003 and has maintained that progress for two seasons now. His lack of plate discipline remains a significant flaw, but so far it has not slowed him down much.
Advantage: Cantu has hit slightly better, with virtually identical BA/OBP marks but considerably more power and a higher adjusted OPS. Both players have made progress refining their skills but both still have work to do. Overall Cantu gets a slight edge here.

PROJECTION
Cano: If Cano continues to make progress, he should be a consistent .280-.300 hitter with above average power. If he can remain at second base and hit like that, he will be valuable indeed. Similar Players according to Sim Score and PECOTA include names like Tony Lazzeri, Paul Molitor, Billy Herman, Ron Hunt, Rick Burleson, and Travis Fryman.
Cantu: If Cantu continues to make progress, he should be a .275-.295 hitter with above average and perhaps excellent power. Comparables include Danny Tartabull, Jim Ray Hart, Jim Pressley, Bobby Thomson, Ken McMullen, Don Money, and Steve Garvey.
Advantage:: Cano's comparable players are slightly better overall than Cantu's, having a better balance of offensive and defensive value, but both certainly have respectable possible outcomes. The big risk in both cases is strike zone judgment, which could drag down their hitting unless they make some adjustments.

OVERALL
Advantage:Let's see. I rate them as even in background and intangibles. I give Cano a slight edge in tools. I give Cantu a slight edge in performance to date. I give Cano a slight edge in future projection. Overall it is very close, with Cano probably having a slight edge.
What do you think? Which player would you rather have for the future?

0 recs  |  Comment 23 comments

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Jorge
I'd take Jorge--

if he can keep up that RBI production from the second base hole, he'll be better than Robby. Hands down.

by zookman12 on Apr 10, 2025 6:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

heh
Sorry, but I refuse to judge how good a player is by how many RBI he had in his only season playing full time.  I would take Cantu over Cano no questions asked, but using RBI as the basis of that decision is foolish

by Jgaztambide on Apr 10, 2025 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

CC
If Cantu continues to make progress, he should be a .260-.285 hitter....

Why only a .260-.285 hitter? It doesn't make much sense. He hit .289 last year, and so he's going to progress while simultaneously regressing?

I see the two as being equal in BA and OBP. Cano has not shown as much power as Cantu. Cano hit 18 homers between AAA and the majors. Cantu hit 28 homers, while hitting 40 doubles, about the same as Cano. Those 10 more home runs goes tremedously far and so offensively I would give him the unequivocal advantage.

by ultxmxpx on Apr 10, 2025 6:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

cantu
I suppose I'm still skeptical about Cantu's bat. But you're right, .260 is too low. I will revise that.

by John Sickels on Apr 10, 2025 6:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Cantu
If his reverse split wasn't a fluke last year.  Otherwise, I would take the lefty bat of Cano.

by TCapone30 on Apr 10, 2025 7:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Cantu...
...blows in the field, doesn't he?  He had a Rate of 88 last year while Cano's Rate was 101.  

I would probably rate these two guys close if I thought Cantu could stick at 2B, which I think he won't.  All defensive stats show him to be one of the worst second basemen in the MLB.

by sabernar on Apr 10, 2025 8:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: defense
Interestingly enough, Cantu and Cano rank 26th and 27th among second basemen in 2005, according to Gassko's defensive rankings. Out of 30, that isn't too hot.

I don't have my copy of The Fielding Bible next to me sadly, so I can't check.

Pinto has Cano as the better defensive player, but neither looks good, with Cano 5th worst and Cantu worst at second.

by Marc Normandin on Apr 10, 2025 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cano
Although I favor Cantu slightly over Cano based on pure ability and upside, I would say that Cano has the better opportunity to put up greater numbers, both now and in the future, in the superior Yankee lineup.

Because both players are perceived as having almost equal talent, I would have to choose Cano simply because the hitters around him will hide some of his weaknesses and allow him to put up numbers that are perhaps not entirely reflective of his ability. With that said, if all things were equal, I would choose Cantu because of his power potential.

by MauerPower on Apr 10, 2025 8:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Future
Have you seen the Rays future line-up:

Bossman
CC
Gomes
Delmon
Cantu
Bankston
Rocco/Dukes

That's pretty potent too.  I don't think Cantu will have any problem with protection in the line-up.

"Chuck Lamar, you're fired"- Stuart Sternburg.

by Tyler on Apr 10, 2025 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

comment
Is it just me or does that line up have 5/6 outfielders and 2 first baseman?

I love all the young players Tampa has, but lets not start comparing them to a yankees lineup. Cano is the number 9 hitter for the Yankees. Where does Cantu bat in the rays lineup. Sorry but the Rays have a lot of work to do.

by Josh on Apr 10, 2025 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not
comparing them to the Yankees, but in a couple of years this line-up could be real good.  As for the positions:

Bossman SS (he's staying there, and until they move him, I'm not either)
CC LF
Gomes DH/1B (probably in the future)
Delmon RF
Cantu 2B
Bankston 3B (his position for now, that's where they're playing him, that's where I'm putting him)
Rocco/Dukes CF (one of the two, I'm not saying both)

The Yankee's

Damon-33
Jeter-32
Giambi-35
A-Rod-31
Sheff-38
Matsui-32
Posada-35
Cano-24

Notice a pattern.  It's not the steroid era.  Normal humans decline when they get into their mid-upper 30's.  I'd expect them to start declining right as the Rays are set to explode.  It's not inconcievable the Rays have as good of, if not better, offense in 08/09.

"Chuck Lamar, you're fired"- Stuart Sternburg.

by Tyler on Apr 10, 2025 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

no more shef
Shef won't be here a Yankee in a couple of years.

by sabernar on Apr 10, 2025 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I sure do see a pattern
Tyler, you want to project the bats but not the gloves of these players? I'm sorry but if they don't move players like Cantu and upton the rays middle infield defense will be hard to watch.

It is foolish to think the yankess won;t be adding the best players money can buy. Tampa has some nice prospects but the yankees add allstars. All Tampa is doing is hoping to develop allstars. Unless they want to double, maybe triple payroll they won't have a line up as deep as the yankees ever. They may have one or two guys better though.

It is also foolish to say the steroid era has ended. Last time I checked MLB is not testing players blood. Still to many loop holes for me to say the game is clean.

by Josh on Apr 10, 2025 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good lineup, but...
You're assuming that the D-Rays will be able to keep their core position players together through their peak years, and that all of their stud prospects will develop as expected. I would say that both of those possibilies are far from certain.  

As we have seen with the A's, Twins, and even less successful small market teams, lineup continuity is a much bigger issue for low revenue clubs than it is for big spenders like the Yankees and Red Sox. Plus, you can never really tell how well a prospect will hit until they reach the majors--I'm not ready to put Delmon on the same level as ARod and Sheffield just yet. And, if he does turn out to be in that stratosphere, the Yankees will probably sign him away from the Rays anyway.

Also, while the Rays lineup will be relatively unproven for the next few years, the Yankees meanwhile have--and always will have-- proven commodities. Therefore, I would say that, if Cantu remains with the Devil Rays, it is far more likely that Cano will be hitting in a better lineup, on average, as long as he is with the Yankees.  

by MauerPower on Apr 10, 2025 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cano
There's something about Cano that makes me distrust his long-term potential.  I'm not a huge Cantu fan because of position issues and plate discipline, but he seems like a better bet to be a consistent threat at the plate than Cano.  Cantu has already put up big power numbers.  Cano hasn't, and I don't have incredibly high hopes that he will.  He doesn't draw walks either.  His entire value at this point is tied to whether he can hit around .290-.300, the only way his OBP and SLG will be tolerable.

Since they're about the same age, and both have already developed good contact hitting skills, I have more faith that Cantu will maintain his power and average than that Cano will develop power and maintain average.

by limozeen on Apr 10, 2025 8:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah, but...
...there is more to baseball than hitting.  If Cantu becomes a DH or a 1B, how much more valuable is he than Cano even if he does better offensively?  He's have to improve a LOT to outvalue Cano's ability to play 2B.  Tampa Bay has plenty of 1B/DH, they don't need another.  What they need is a guy who can play 2B.

by sabernar on Apr 10, 2025 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why I Like Cantu
For my ego.  I picked him up for $1 in my fantasy league when he was called from the minors because of the huge amount of extra base hits and good average.  He has continued that pattern.

For both players walks are an issue, but Cantu's bat at second is too valuable to move.  Someone above said Cano's value is in his batting average and I have to agree.  Cano has not shown power at any level, nor has he seem to grown or filled much in the last two years.  Power is a big question mark.

I hope Cano succeeds because it's nice to see the Yankees develop talen from within again and I am not a Yankee fan.

Both players have most of the same question marks but Cantu has outproduced Cano by a very wide margin in an inferior line-up.

by stjp5 on Apr 10, 2025 9:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The Fielding Bible....
... whose metrics I really like, has Cano at 36th among 36 in range last year, among qualifying 2B.  Cantu is at 25th.  Cano has a DP ranking of 29 to Cantu's 26.

If the issue with Robbie Cano was just "concentration" as some have said, that would be something perhaps fixable, but his range is downright atrocious.  So I would downgrade him because I don't think he'll stick at 2B for very long, and while he does he'll be a pitcher's nightmare (and not for the opposing pitcher).  Also, I do worry that his hitting might be too reliant on BA, especially for OBP, though his slugging includes a lot of doubles, which is a good sign.

I kind of hope he does well, just because it's nice to see the Yankees develop young talent, but I kind of don't because... well, I'll admit it, because I'm a Sox fan.  So take all of the above with a grain or seventeen of salt.

by abbreviatedman on Apr 11, 2025 11:24 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yanks
Cano made a nice play in the 1st in today's game (to the left, a good play but nothing that remarkable), and the announcers were raving about his excellent range both left and right. So you can't blame Yankee fans for thinking he has great range - that's what they're being told...

I don't know if Cano has enough power to play anywhere else but 2B - certainly not for the Yankees, that's for sure. That's why I think Cantu's power makes him the better long-term choice, as he could more easily transition to another position down the road. (Although I guess if Joe Randa can have a long career without ever hitting more than 17 homers, there's still hope for Cano)

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." -Red Barber

by e 6 on Apr 11, 2025 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yanks Announcers
My favorite line from Susan Waldman this year, after Sturtze gives up a homer on his first pitch in this home opener debacle against the Royals:

"I think Sturtze is much better when he doesn't try to throw that flat fastball."

I think she seriously meant it was a positive note.

by abbreviatedman on Apr 11, 2025 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ummmmmm
mmmmmmmmm

Cano stands 6-0, 170?

170?

I think Cano's rear weighs 170.

It looks to me like Cano took it easy in the off season after becoming the everyday second baseman.

In regards to Cantu, I see him moving to 1st base in the next few years as his power number increase and .avg falls.

POE

POE

by bpoe13 on Apr 11, 2025 2:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
Maybe more than a few years, but by the time he's a year or two into his first free agent contract, he'll be a 1B.  Considering how much more weight his frame could carry, I don't think that would necessarily be a bad thing.
"If there wasn't nine guys out in the field, I'd have a hit every time except when I strike out." - Delmon Young

by Brickhaus on Apr 12, 2025 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

splits
Its questionable exactly how important this is, but there's a pretty big difference in the road performances of these two guys:

Cano - .335/.358/.525
Cantu - .278/.303/.466

I've got no idea why a lefty like Cano would have such a huge problem in Yankee Stadium, but it does give me more confidence in his future.

by amol on Apr 17, 2025 12:06 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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