2011 College World Series Discussion Thread: Day Seven
I forgot to post one of these yesterday but here you go.
Unsubstantiated Predictions:
I'm gonna ride Vanderbilt to the final game, so I'm picking them to beat Florida 5-3.
South Carolina will defeat Virginia 4-1.
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Vandy/Florida
Wish this were the 7 PM game. It should be another good one between the two best teams in the nation.
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by Jeff Reese on Jun 24, 2025 2:08 PM EDT reply actions
Now that's the Aaron Westlake that I know and love
He just destroyed that ball.
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by Jeff Reese on Jun 24, 2025 2:12 PM EDT reply actions
Excited to see Hultzen pitch
That’s gonna be a good one
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by mathisrocks5 on Jun 24, 2025 2:43 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
A rested Hultzen at that
While he’s played DH, he’s about as rested as he’s going to be at this time of year. It’s going to be tough for UVA to win two, but I’ll take my chances with Hultzen any day (doesn’t mean he will win, and it’s no disrespect for Roth, just would roll the dice on Hultzen).
That said, if they win, they face an uphill battle. It’ll be an all-hands on deck type game, but their best two starting arms, assuming Hultzen can get them a win tonight, will be spent. Roberts just got hit by South Carolina the other day. That would leave Winiarksi/Mayberry as the other options if he chooses not to go with Roberts.
That said, gotta win one first.
by toonsterwu on Jun 24, 2025 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't argue with this Final 4
Vandy, Florida and UVA were my top three heading into the post-season. I’m rooting for a Vandy/UVA final for purely selfish reasons.
by blackoutyears on Jun 24, 2025 3:36 PM EDT reply actions
Sonny Gray hasnt really dominated lately like I thought he would
SSS for sure, I think he’s still at Top 70 prospect at worst
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by mathisrocks5 on Jun 24, 2025 4:30 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
His stuff is damn good
He just doesn’t have much ability to command it. I don’t care about his size, that’s the reason I see him as a reliever.
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by Jeff Reese on Jun 24, 2025 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, he looks like a bulldog innings eater with a chance to be more if he commands his stuff better
Or a shutdown closer. He seems like a guy who would be dominate in short relief
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by mathisrocks5 on Jun 24, 2025 6:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Austin Maddox
Is pitching? I’ve heard everywhere that he is one of the top 1B available in the draft next year. Is that still the case?
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by mathisrocks5 on Jun 24, 2025 4:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Maddox is probably drafted as a 1B,
but he is also one of the Gators’ better relievers: http://www.gatorzone.com/baseball/stats.php
by blackoutyears on Jun 24, 2025 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I like him more on the mound honestly
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by Jeff Reese on Jun 24, 2025 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
I think the vast majority of teams want him on the mound. Unless he has another year at the plate like he did in 2010, he won’t be even a top 2 round draftee as a 1B. Meanwhile, he’s throwing a FB in the mid-90s (with lots of late movement) and an above-average breaking ball - as a part-time pitcher. The only way I see that he won’t get drafted as a pitcher next year is if there is still a team out there that believes that he can make it as a catcher (where he played a lot in HS).
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by Fla-Giant on Jun 24, 2025 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
We'll see
That’s a lot of power potential to give up on for a guy who’s probably not a starter, and he has another year to do something. Talk about the vast majority of teams, I’d say they don’t consider him a catcher.
by blackoutyears on Jun 25, 2025 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
You would have to really buy into the power
RH first basemen face a very tough road, and I just don’t like his bat that much. I think he has late inning potential as a reliever.
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by Jeff Reese on Jun 25, 2025 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
The power is there
Whether or not he makes enough contact to get to it is a big issue. And that’s just it: reliever. I like him, but I’m not sure I see future closer.
by blackoutyears on Jun 25, 2025 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Sweet.
We tied it up.
Now how about a hit with runners on…
by parish on Jun 24, 2025 4:44 PM EDT reply actions
I cant believe Gray has been in this long
He is definatley a bulldog
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by mathisrocks5 on Jun 24, 2025 4:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Driving me nuts
He has 10 hits and 5 walks. Seems like it is time to yield to the pen, which ain’t bad.
by parish on Jun 24, 2025 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
About to give the lead right back.
Is there something wrong?
Are there 8 - 10 injuries I don’t know about.
by parish on Jun 24, 2025 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Sheesh
Finally got Gray out of there. After three more hits in the bottom of the 8th.
by parish on Jun 24, 2025 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I do not understand why he left gray in that long
I just don’t understand it. I know he’s your best arm, and I can understand letting him start the 8th. But geesh.
by toonsterwu on Jun 24, 2025 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Very disappointing
Gray did not have his best stuff, yet he started the 8th (with 3 straight hits against). You have to think they might still be playing if he yielded to the “best bullpen in history.”
Don’t you have a shorter leash in an elimination game?
Oh well, great year for Vandy. Finally made it to Omaha.
by parish on Jun 24, 2025 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Wonderful 1st inning for Hultzen
I am starting to fall in love with this guy. He’s hitting 95 with great command. I think we are underrating his potential.
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by mathisrocks5 on Jun 24, 2025 7:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
5 straight k's
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by mathisrocks5 on Jun 24, 2025 7:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Hultzen: 5 hitters, 5 k's
Struck out Bradley, Jr on back-to-back 95 mph heaters on the black. Looks really good.
by mkries on Jun 24, 2025 7:34 PM EDT reply actions
6. I’m seeing why the M’s liked him enough for #2
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by mathisrocks5 on Jun 24, 2025 7:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yessir
This is why I think he’s the safest bet to turn into a #2 starter in this draft class.
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by Jeff Reese on Jun 24, 2025 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I do think hes a #2 easily
But there are guys who are aces with pretty good, but not great stuff and throw a ton of strikes like Weaver and Lee. Hultzen could be one of those guys.
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by mathisrocks5 on Jun 24, 2025 7:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bauer as well
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by mathisrocks5 on Jun 24, 2025 7:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm not as bullish on Bauer
Others are, but I don’t like his command. He has good pitchability, but tends to miss up in the zone with that fastball way too often.
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by Jeff Reese on Jun 24, 2025 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Possibly, it's just easier to project him as a #2
With a very high probability of reaching it. And that’s an extremely valuable player.
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by Jeff Reese on Jun 24, 2025 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
No one is a #2 "easily"
Damn shame about Hultzen’s having to leave early. He was working on a classic.
by blackoutyears on Jun 25, 2025 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Here's a question that I've pondered
If you took away the name, and just focused on the stuff this year, I wonder if people would consider him a guy with “1” potential. A lefty that can run it i the mid-90’s (granted, sits more 92-94, but that’s still plus velo for a lefty), with a plus to plus-plus change, a slider that has flashed plus potential, and good control? That sounds like … a possible rotation “1” to me.
I’m not saying he’s that good, or will be that good (even I don’t think I wouldt really consider him a 1), but I am mildly surprised that, at the end of the season, that people still haven’t really put that number next to him as a possibility. It was understandable early-middle of the year, when you wondered if the velocity would keep up.
by toonsterwu on Jun 24, 2025 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Kinda close to Pomeranz last year
Had the mid-90s heat with the plus curveball and good control. Did people think he had number 1 potential? I thought he was also mention more of a 2, but I may be wrong
by kempsc on Jun 24, 2025 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh, I don't see it
Pomeranz has MUCH worse control/command
Pomeranz had a plus-plus curve ball, Hultzen has an above-average slider
Pomeranz didn’t really have a change; Hultzen has a plus to plus-plus change
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by Jeff Reese on Jun 24, 2025 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Thing is,
we still don’t know how Hultzen’s velo will hold up pitching every fifth day, and he had enough games where he was 89-93 that it’s reasonable to reserve judgment.
by blackoutyears on Jun 25, 2025 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that's a reasonable stance
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by Jeff Reese on Jun 25, 2025 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
And of course,
I think you and I have probably been as simpatico on him the last two years as anyone. You know I have almost exactly the same respect/expectations for him as you.
by blackoutyears on Jun 25, 2025 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
He just doesn't have the overpowering stuff that is usually identified with potential #1s
Now, he could get his command to a level where he is a #1, but it’s easier to project him as a #2. And that’s definitely not to say his stuff is bad, I think he’s fantastic. It’s just not “I’ll blow this fastball by you and then bury this unhittable slider in the dirt so you have no chance” type of stuff.
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by Jeff Reese on Jun 24, 2025 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
wait
I don’t think we’re really disagreeing on the general sentiment but
a) His control isn’t … good enough to be considered a 1? Maybe I’m misreading that, but that seems … interesting considering the 1.8 BB/9 rate. Even acknowledging for level adjustments and so forth, it’s hard to imagine his BB rate collapsing in the minors, as of now.
b) When he needs to, he’s been able to just reach back and blow the fastball by a guy. He’s kept 95 into the mid innings before (4/5), but he does have a quality 2-seamer in his back pocket.
c) I don’t disagree that the slider is the weakness, but he does have plus slider potential. I mean, he’s flashed a nasty slider quite a bit this year, but the quality of the fastball/changeup makes that the third pitch. I feel like the slider should get more consistent in time.
All that said, general sentiment is probably similar.
by toonsterwu on Jun 24, 2025 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
a. Not control but command. He has games where he isn’t really hitting his spots. His two starts before this one are examples. He still battles through amazingly well, but when his command IS on, he’s virtually unhittable. He’ll need more games like that in pro ball to be a #1
Yeah, his velocity is fine from the left side, but it doesn’t really have the movement to flat overpower a hitter. It works best as a pitch he spots well.c. I’m certainly not bashing the slider. I actually like it quite a bit. However, it is not the dominant breaking ball you’d like to see from an ace. It’s more above-average with a chance to be plus.
Definitely have a similar general sentiment. He was the best college pitcher on my board for a reason.
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by Jeff Reese on Jun 24, 2025 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
b. apparently makes things bold?
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by Jeff Reese on Jun 24, 2025 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
general sentiment is the same, but response anyways
on a … I’ve watched/followed the majority of games this year, and there’s really only a handful of games where he’s been off on his control, and I’m including the last 2. I mean, if we’re using that metric as a judgment, then I can’t think of a single guy in college who was spot on with his command as much as Hultzen was this year and still had top potential (a guy like Roth certainly was better with command perhaps, but his ceiling isn’t that high). Maybe Bauer is the one guy.
I don’t disagree with that. He’s better off going with his 2-seamer, which gets really good movement and is probably his plus fastball.c. I think my point here is that, in college, he could get away with 2 pitches, and considering the quality of the 2-seamer and the changeup, that was enough to dominate. Considering how he’s flashed a plus slider quite a bit thsi year, it’s hard to imagine it not getting more consistent. He throws that in-between breaking ball as well, which is sort of slurvy, and that pitch isn’t anywhere near plus, but when he has more of a slider trajectory, that pitch has plus potential, so maybe that’s where the distinction should be noted.
by toonsterwu on Jun 24, 2025 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t think of a single guy in college who was spot on with his command as much as Hultzen was this year and still had top potential
Neither can I, but Cole is the only college pitcher I’m comfortable giving ace upside to and the probability for him is pretty low.
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by Jeff Reese on Jun 24, 2025 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
and Cole was a case
of a guy who’s command was rather erratic for that quality of a talent. As a side note, I was talking about a “1” projection, and not an “ace” projection, and I do make a small distinction there, since I think there’s only a handful of guys that are legitimate aces.
by toonsterwu on Jun 24, 2025 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
So does a "#1" basically mean
you’re talking about one of the approximately top 30 SPs in MLB? And a “#2” is approx. one of the 31-60 SPs, and so forth?
by mkries on Jun 24, 2025 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I was using them synonomously
Which could be the source of the mild disagreement.
I completely agree with you on Cole, his command is WELL below what is necessary for him to be an ace. However, he has that overpowering stuff where he would just need pretty good command to be that kind of a pitcher. I’m not sure it’ll ever get there, but it’s conceivable.
With Hultzen to be an ace, the command will have to be off the charts good.
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by Jeff Reese on Jun 24, 2025 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
the command will have to be off the charts good.
Yes. Think Cliff Lee as mentioned above. And no, a #1 is not simply the first pitcher in every rotation, mrkies. At any given time most teams do not have a true #1 or ace.
Hultzen’s arm slot puts a lot of pressure on his slider in terms of location. He’ll never get as much natural action on it from low 3/4 as he would a higher slot, so he relies on commanding it.
by blackoutyears on Jun 25, 2025 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait....
WTF? Why was Hultzen pulled? This is an elimination game! Ivd been waiting all day to see him pitch too!
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by mathisrocks5 on Jun 24, 2025 8:07 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
He has the flu
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by Jeff Reese on Jun 24, 2025 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
aww man
Hopefully he gets one more start in the finals
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by mathisrocks5 on Jun 24, 2025 8:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
gonna be hard for UVA to make it in
I mean, even as a big UVA fan, it’s quite a tall task. Even if they somehow pull it out today, the pen is already spent, and South Carolina tagged Roberts last time (granted, errors didn’t help, but he still got tagged and they’ve seen his stuff). The best hope was a healthy Hultzen going deep, saving the pen.
Total side note, but Crockett got tagged there when he came in, but I just wonder, when the kid puts on muscle and adds weight (and he should), if he’ll just really blossom. He’s already pretty good as a pen arm this year, peaking in the low 90’s.
by toonsterwu on Jun 24, 2025 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently he's really sick.
Been going to the clubhouse b/w innings. He looks like crap sitting on the bench.
by mkries on Jun 24, 2025 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
which make what he did all the more ... amazing
by toonsterwu on Jun 24, 2025 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm agape
First to last pitch the Gamecocks were helpless against him. I will say that this was unalloyed major league stuff today. You hear evaluators say that an amateur’s stuff would have played in the majors on a given day, and it’s usually crap, but in this instance it applies. The batters might as well have been holding table legs.
by blackoutyears on Jun 25, 2025 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
that was as good as I think he's been all year
which is saying something, considering he was sick. It looked like everything was working and he was showing three plus pitches. The Gamecocks couldn’t touch him. I didn’t think UVA could win two back to back against South Carolina, but man, it would’ve been nice to see what sort of epic game he could’ve pitched and what records he might’ve set. At least he broke one record (I think … didn’t they say he broke the consecutive K’s to start a CWS game record?).
by toonsterwu on Jun 25, 2025 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
The first few innings in that game against UNC (5/20)
He was just as good as last night. When his command is on, college hitters have absolutely no chance.
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by Jeff Reese on Jun 25, 2025 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I've seen him good,
but this is the best I’ve personally seen him. I’ve seen that command for instance, and all of his pitches working, but never with the sustained 93-95 velo. And yes, the previous record for Ks to start a CWS game was three, toonster. I’d say he broke that handily. lol
I hope his doubters saw this game. I thought he merited a top pick based on a 91-93 FB with these secondaries, much less plus velo. And since my deal-maker with him has always been his competitiveness and mental toughness, I’d say coming out and mowing down the defending CWS champs for three innings with a stomach virus speaks volumes about his makeup.
by blackoutyears on Jun 25, 2025 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
true
but South Carolina’s lineup is much more potent than that UNC crew.
by toonsterwu on Jun 25, 2025 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure,
but I assume Jeff’s referring to the quality of the stuff and his command, competition aside. It’s hard to overstate how overwhelmed South Carolina was. I actually had to go back and watch it again. Just…wow.
by blackoutyears on Jun 25, 2025 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Heck of a game
Going to be interesting to follow the two closers future. Not sure what the word is on Price signing with the D-backs, but I feel like if he goes back to school and is used as a starter, which most seem to anticipate, that he could be a 1st round caliber arm. Same with Kline (and he’s a case where I’m going to be rather surprised if he’s not in the rotation, considering UVA graduates all four of their starters and Kline has big time upside).
by toonsterwu on Jun 24, 2025 10:02 PM EDT reply actions
And they already lost Kevin Matthews to TEX
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by Jeff Reese on Jun 24, 2025 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not too worried about the rotation for UVA next year
I figure it’s going to be Kline and perhaps Crockett, with the third and fourth spot more up for grabs. The pen’s the bigger question, and I really hope Derek Fisher heads to Charlottesville, as he’d give them a big time bat in the middle of the lineup. Off the top, can’t remember their recruiting class, but what was it, 5 kids or 6 drafted high?
by toonsterwu on Jun 24, 2025 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's see, I have the following as UVa commits
Kevin Matthews: 1st
Derek Fisher: 6th
Mike Papi: 30th
Nicholas Howard: Undrafted
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by Jeff Reese on Jun 24, 2025 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
odd
i thought i had read somewhere that uva had 5-6 guys in their recruiting class that were drafted. I don’t follow baseball recruiting all that closely, so you’d probably know better than i would.
by toonsterwu on Jun 24, 2025 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Certainly possible
Those were just the guys I had down as UVa commits.
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by Jeff Reese on Jun 24, 2025 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
"the two closers"
I was gonna say. If nothing else, both guys proved they can start. sigh.
by blackoutyears on Jun 25, 2025 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Kline's got good stuff
I don’t know Price as well, but Kline’s raw stuff might’ve been better than Danny’s (hard to compare, though, due to roles). I was a bit surprised with the gun showings from ESPN yesterday, as I had him, as a closer, more in the mid-90’s, and it seemed like he was more in the low 90’s yesterday. If he can develop a changeup, he could be nasty, as when he’s on, he’s flashed plus fastball/plus slider combo.
Control/command were erratic yesterday, though, and that was from the get-go, so he’s going to have to tidy it up to become a starter. That said, entire rotation gone, Kevin Matthews isn’t coming. Much as I like Crockett’s potential, hard to not see Kline as the Friday night starter for UVA next year at the start of the year.
by toonsterwu on Jun 25, 2025 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Kline's stuff
has more movement than Hultzen’s, but “better” is debatable. Price is an absolute stud, as you saw, and one of the best closers in college ball. I’m glad both got a chance to showcase their stuff and competitiveness. That was a helluva battle.
And it seems as if , yet again, Mike Roth has been overshadowed by more heralded arms despite pitching extremely well. Hard to see him as even a MoR ceiling as a pro, but there’s no way SouCar is even in the CWS without his amazing season and he did it again with seven innings of one-run ball against a good offense. One of the best seasons by a college starter this year. Hats off.
by blackoutyears on Jun 25, 2025 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Roth
is a great college arm. I could even see him becoming a solid pro end of the rotation type guy (although I think he’s more of a LOOGY type once guys see him enough).
by toonsterwu on Jun 25, 2025 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
as a side note on Kline v. Hultzen "stuff"
Again, hard comparison, so maybe I shouldn’t have ventured into this territory, and I’m obviously a huge Hultzen fan. That said, I think Kline’s fastball is probably the better of the two fastballs, and the issue becomes Kline’s nasty slider vs. Hultzen’s plus change. Hultzen’s change is better, but Kline’s slider is quality too, and I think that you can make the case that Kline’s fastball probably gives him a slight edge.
That said, I shouldn’t have ventured into this territory. Both guys have excellent stuff.
by toonsterwu on Jun 25, 2025 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
What a game
UVA had chances, in both their games, against USC, but they failed to execute and made some dumb mistakes. I really don’t know what Harrington was thinking on 2nd base there, and the 2nd throw by Winiarski, I just don’t understand. There was very little chance of nabbing him. Get the sure out, and then walk a guy to set up a possible DP.
But the Gamecocks came through when they needed to. I’m sure both Beary and Hicks are dog-tired right now, and Price and Kline perhaps got an unnecessary jump start to potentially throwing heavier workloads as starters (Kline did get himself into trouble). Gonna be a good final.
by toonsterwu on Jun 24, 2025 11:48 PM EDT reply actions
you can clearly hear another player yell ‘three’ right before he gets to the ball. He had no way of knowing if he could get the guy at third without some outside help because of the way he is turned. I blame whoever yelled to him.
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by yondaime4 on Jun 25, 2025 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
thanks
must have missed that during the game.
by toonsterwu on Jun 25, 2025 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions

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