Prospect Retro: Shin-Soo Choo
Prospect Retro: Shin-Soo Choo
One of the best hitters in baseball the last two seasons is Shin-Soo Choo of the Cleveland Indians, currently hitting .308/.417/.462 (+147 OPS) , following up a +137 OPS in '09 and a +151 OPS in '08. He is now in his prime at age 27, but let's take a look and see how he developed as a prospect.
Choo began his amateur career in Korea as a pitcher, but when the Mariners signed him (for $1.3 million) as a free agent in 2000 they moved him to the outfield, to take advantage of his speed and strength. Shades of Nick Markakis! He got off to a great start by hitting .302/.420/.513 for the Arizona Rookie League Mariners, stealing 12 bases and showing a high walk rate with 34 walks in 199 at-bats. Despite his performance, some scouts said he had problems with inside pitches. I gave him a Grade B in my 2002 book, noting that "he might have some growing pains" but would be a fine player eventually.
Moved up to Class A Wisconsin for 2002, Choo hit .302/.417/.440 in 119 games, followed by a .308/.460/.564 mark in 11 games for Class A San Bernadino. He stole 37 bases, but was caught 21 times. I liked the 70 walks he drew and expected more power to develop, giving him a Grade B+ in the 2003 book and ranking him aggressively as the Number 23 Hitting Prospect in baseball.
Returning to the Cal League for '03, Choo hit .286/.365/.459 with 18 steals for Inland Empire, posting a somewhat disappointing +9 percent OPS. Scouts began quibbling about problems with his swing again. I lowered his rating slightly to a Grade B, but noted he was still just 20 years old and still looked like a fine prospect to me.
Moved up to Double-A for 2004, Choo hit .315/.382/.462 for San Antonio, with 15 homers, 40 steals, and 56 walks in 132 games. I moved him back up to Grade B+ in the 2005 book, writing that I expected Choo to hit for more power as he matured, and that he could be "Rusty Greer with more speed."
Choo hit .282/.382/.431 in 115 games for Triple-A Tacoma in 2005, then went 1-for-18 in 10 games for the Mariners. Although his Triple-A production wasn't horrendous, his OPS dropped to just +3 percent, and there was a lot of buzz from Pacific Coast League scouts about how disappointing Choo was. Indeed, two different front office people told me that year that I had been much too enthusiastic about Choo in the past, and that his weaknesses were being exposed by better pitching. Influenced by these comments as well as his dropping production, I lowered his rating to a Grade C+ in the 2006 book.
Choo returned to Triple-A for '06 and was much better, hitting .320/.392/.496 with 26 steals in 94 games. The Mariners didn't seem to really believe in this however, and traded him to the Indians in late July for Ben Broussard. Choo hit .295/.373/.473 in 45 games for the Indians down the stretch. He lost much of '07 to injury, but has been effective ever since. He is currently a career .297/.389/.488 hitter in 1209 at-bats. His OPS+ is 135.
Looking at some comparable players:
SIM SCORES: Hack Wilson, Marty Cordova, Mitchell Page, Andre Ethier, Tommy Henrich, Aaron Rowand, Jason Giambi, Dutch Zwilling, Pedro Guerrero, and Richie Zisk.
PECOTA Comps: Ryan Church, Bernie Williams, Bobby Abreu, Bobby Higginson, Tony Gonzalez, Cleon Jones, Bob Skinner, Alex Rios, Lee Walls, and Jim Edmonds.
There are no bad players on these lists, although some of them didn't last particularly long or sustain their peaks. I like the Bobby Abreu comp in particular.
Rusty Greer, who I compared to Choo back in '04, doesn't show up on these lists, but he was a career .305/.387/.478 hitter, very similar to what Choo has done so far in raw numbers, although Greer's offensive context was friendlier and his OPS+ was 119.
In retrospect, my original assessment of Choo was closer to the mark than the assessment I made after his shaky '05 season. He's a fine, fine player.
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Comments
Still one of the best trades Shapiro made (along with the Eduardo Perez for Asdrubal Cabrera deal).
Too bad Bavasi is no longer a GM.
by JP_Frost on May 13, 2025 3:12 PM EDT reply actions
dont worry
he works for the Reds! 8-|
by Charlie Scrabbles on May 13, 2025 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
One M's Fan Opinion
Bavasi should serve jail time for trading Asdrubal and Choo in return for Eduardo Perez and Broussard.
by Con on May 14, 2025 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
andre ethier prospect retro
where did his massive power come from???
he never hit many homers in college or the minors and is now the triple crown leader in the NL and on pace for 45+ homers…. when i said he might hit 42 homers this season a few months ago, everyone ridiculed me and said theres no way,…
by matthewmafa on May 13, 2025 6:16 PM EDT reply actions
He changed his swing from a contact/line drive to a power/fly ball swing.
His FB% went up last year, and so did his HRs.
But a whole prospect retro would be awesome…
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on May 13, 2025 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
That Guy
I’ll be That Guy on this one… I recall reading a preseason article about Pedroia and Ethier, and the writer pointed out Ethier’s cartoonish physique and obsession with hitting the weights. During the height of the Steroid Era, this was typical sportswriter code for “steroid user”, and I wouldn’t be shocked if that were the case here.
by GuyinNY on May 13, 2025 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Clarification
I wouldn’t be shocked by anybody, really, so I probably misrepresented my view on Ethier by pointing him out. It’s been great to watch him develop, and he might be The Guy with the game on the line right now.
by GuyinNY on May 13, 2025 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
You know
I dont think Ethier has ever been on roids. He doesnt have the body of a user. He isnt an extremely-cut guy, but rather an in-shape athlete. Even more so, like i said above, was that he came out last year and was hitting more FBs and that led to more HRs. It seems that he changed his approach to go from very good hitter to legit MOO hitter..
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on May 13, 2025 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Not hitting homers?
Hit ten homers his junior season in college (and the college season is less than half as long as MLB), 18 homers and 30 doubles as a 23-year-old in AA. No, he never showed THAT kind of power in the minors, but he showed enough that him having 30-homer power in the majors is believable.
Now, he’s currently got a 28.2% HR/FB, which is pretty clearly unsustainable (that’s in Ryan Howard territory; Ethier had a 15.4% rate last year.) I’m thinking he’ll hit something like 30-35 homers this season, though not the 45 he’s currently on pace for.
The Coors Effect
by Tom (RFTN) on May 13, 2025 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont think anyone is expecting him to hit 45 HRs
Although it would be nice ;)
Now, just one thought about last year. Although he put up great numbers, there was a stretch where he was just horrible(very few HRs, 200 average). If he doesnt have one of those stretches, he could get close to 40, although i wouldnt bet my life savings on him getting into that category..
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on May 14, 2025 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Korea
Hey, I’ve got a question for anyone out there. I’m currently living in Korea and I’ve been making it to quite a few ball games. Does anyone have any idea what the talent level out here would be comparable too? I mean, its obviously not super high, but where would it be placed? I’ve never watched a lot of minor league baseball in person so its hard for me to judge. Is it closer to AA or AAA? Any help would be great.
There’s one player here on the local team, Lee Dae Ho, who is very famous and actually good friends with Choo Shin-Soo, and he can really hit. He’s a pretty portly fellow so I don’t think he could make it over here as a position player. But I was really curious as to what his stock would be as a DH or something.
by SuperBean on May 13, 2025 8:43 PM EDT reply actions
I live in Korea too
It seems to be equivalent to High-A to me, definitely not Triple-A. Guys really don’t throw very hard, and the fielding is a bit sub-par. I think most of the good Korean players go to Japan.
That said, SK Wyverns is one of the coolest names in sports.
by Fanon on May 14, 2025 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I may be wrong
But what I have heard is that Japan is like AAA/AA, and if most of the good Koreans go to Japan, Id agree that it is probably about high A… maybe the better teams are equivalent of the bad AA teams?
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on May 14, 2025 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe
I always thought Japan was considered to be somewhere between Triple-A and the majors, thus why a Quadruple-A guy here can go there and thrive, but generally won’t put up numbers quite as crazy as he could in Triple-A. It’s a bit harder to judge offensive numbers there considering the fact that a lot of the parks are domed bandboxes.
by Fanon on May 15, 2025 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Field Level Netting...
I’ve a friend who was in Korea recently, and when I saw some of her pictures from a Lotte Giants game (with Manager Jerry Royster!), I was surprised to see netting that extended all the way along the field level seats; out to the outfield…
I wonder if this feature will ever make it over to North America - perhaps if a stray foul ball killed someone, then MLB might respond like the NHL did - putting up netting after that young girl was killed by an errant puck. My local Blue Jay radio broadcasters have talked about this before; sorry to steer away from Choo chatter (oh my,he’s a good one), but wonder what it’s like watching a game with that netting - I’ve easily gotten used to it at my local (junior) hockey arena…
by almantle on May 13, 2025 9:30 PM EDT reply actions
With how sloshed people get here
I’m guessing it’s to keep folks from falling onto the field.
by Fanon on May 14, 2025 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
We're going to be taking it in the ass on this one for years...
The Mariners didn’t seem to really believe in this however, and traded him to the Indians in late July for Ben Broussard.
sigh…
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on May 14, 2025 1:38 AM EDT reply actions
I was actually just thinking about that trade
so I went to Lookout Landing to see what their thoughts were when the trade went down. Not a single person was opposed to it, most of them thought it was a great move. Apparently, they didn’t really see Choo as more than a 4th outfielder/platoon guy. Interesting, to say the least.
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2006/7/26/172052/841
I am like your Dan Aykroyd and biglow would be Jane, the ignorant slut. -Chad
Good ol' KO
by thecoolest on May 15, 2025 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
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