Yeah tough to say that i guess. I would say that of all the catchers with bats good enough to project as at least solid platoon types, Castro is probably in the top 2-3, maybe the best. From everything I’ve read, he seems to be at least as good as Posey, who is probably the only top catching prospect in the ballpark.

I have no idea why you’d want to do it that way, but I’ll follow that format in the future. Don’t count that as a vote for Norris. I would never vote for someone not in the normal format, because some people will miss the player, even if they want to vote for him.

but Mora didn’t break into the bigs until he was 27. We’re looking at Chisenhall likely in the bigs at around age 23. Additionally, I think the 2005 version of Mora is a good comp for Chisenhall, but you can’t look at Mora’s career and try and base the future value of Chisenhall off of that really. You have the age difference first and foremost, but there are other major differences too. Mora has been all over the place, hitting as low as .233 for a season and as high as .340, his HR totals have ranged from 7 to 27 with 7 of 10 seasons under 20 HR. I think you’ll see Chisenhall fluctuate in the .265 to .285 range with his average, probably not much lower and not likely to have more than maybe one year higher than that. I think he’ll also be more consistent with his power numbers, not just HR but doubles as well. I can see Chiz with 30+ doubles and 20+ HR a year as he fills out a little more.

I guess it comes down to I can see Chisenhall having a career that looks a lot like Mora’s 2005 season repeated year after year, I don’t see him having such an up and down career like Mora. I’m not sure I see star potential with him either, but I’m not sure how many guys still out there have that star potential either. I see Chiz with a great shot at being an above average 3B, both offensively and defensively. That’s pretty valuable, enough so that he’s probably #3 for me right now behind Wade Davis and Kyle Drabek.

He doesn’t exactly have poor plate discipline. This isn’t Vitterian. SSS in AA of 122 AB’s, but he showed progress with 8.3% walk rate and 10.8% K rate (improved from his A+ rates of 5% bb rate and 11.5% k rate). This matches with the scouting reports that suggest he has a good eye and is a good student who learns and adjusts. There’s every reason to believe that his plate discipline will improve.

Also, a bit surprised you suggested 3rd. Most people would pencil him in for 2nd base. I still believe that he will stick at shortstop for most of his cost-controlled years, if not more. His lateral movement is fairly good.

Look, I don’t actually think Starlin Castro belongs here (same for Westmoreland), but there have been scouting reports that suggest that he has a fairly high ceiling. It comes down to whether or not you actually buy the tools argument that many, such as Law/Callis/Churchill and others, have made. It’s been suggested that his ceiling has the potential to be a high average, solid discipline, above average to good power (BA/Law both have argued that) shortstop that plays solid defense by some. Actually, the only “scouting reports” that have come out strongly against his power, that I can recall right now, are from Goldstein.

I’m not saying that I actually believe all that. As a Cubs fan, I’m also not expecting that. That said, what I’m saying is that,

a) When you factor in that some have argued that his ceiling is plenty high
b) That he has more advanced work than Westmoreland
c) Positional value (I think people are overreacting on Castro having to move defensive positions … he may, say, 10 years down the line, but I think he has more than enough tools to play shortstop or 2nd … lateral movement is fine, strong arm. I fully believe that if he mvoes at a younger age, it will be because there is someone better and not because he has to. As a side point on weight and frame expectations, I’d ask folks to look at Castro’s waist and lower body. No one can predict bad weight gain at this stage (and there’s no sign that Starlin will have bad weight gain, based on early reports on his dedication and work ethic). If we look solely at a normal frame expectation, his lower body doesn’t have any of the telltale indicators that woudl suggest that he would lose a lot of athletic ability through normal weight gain that comes with maturation. Most anticipate that he’s got around 10-15 pounds of positive weight gain left that wouldn’t impact his athletic ability, and on visual evidence, I’d probably agree with that. Keep in mind, he’s not this 160 lb shortstop that people are thinking. If he was, I could understand the concern about his future weight being near 190. He probably played around 175-185 this past year).
d) Positive reports on Castro’s work ethic

I will be curious where Castro ends up on this poll. I actually anticipate a backlash here that pushes him down quite a bit, as I think a lot of people here found his rise to be problematic and are searching for the flaws moreso than acknowledging what many other positive reports that scouts have written. Personally, I think he’s a top 30 or so prospect, with a higher ceiling than Escobar, but Escobar is much safer (still think Alcides came off too early).

Having actually seen Castro a couple of times this year, I think he was deserving of some attention for the year he had, but ended up getting a bit over rated. I see his ceiling being Orlando Hudson or Brandon Phillips, that is some projectable power, but not a bunch. I think he’s a bit bigger than some realize; for awhile he was still listed in some places at 5’ 11" or 6’ 0", but he’s probably 6’ 1" and will be a bit big and slow for SS. But he was only 19 this year, I also think he’ll add some pop to go with those excellent contact skills, and the solid all-around tools will still fit well at either 3B or 2B.

Now I haven’t see Westmoreland, but the scouting suggests a bit more than that to me. BA ranked him the top talent in the NYPL and called him “a legitimate blue chip prospect”. If he can be a plus CF defender with pop, I’d have to take him over Castro.

Castro should rank somewhere nearer to Ben Revere.

Those tools have as great a set of tools as anyone in baseball.

Yikes.

Those two have as great a set of tools as anyone in baseball.