This is obviously a problem. Of course, some of that has to do with 3 injuries, roster construction and your available pool of talent.

Pagan and beltran haven’t played with each other all that much.

That said, from the little I know of him, pagan does not strike me as a crappy outfielder.

What may have happened in that game?

Well, if you saw, early in the game, Beltran cut in front of Pagan on a short fly to left, shaded a little toward center, less than 2 out, man on third. Reading amazinavenue, I admit i found it funny when someone posted a “Beltran said get outta the way scrub, I am taking this.” And beltran IS a great fielder. But Beltran made a pump before he threw. This was commented on by the announcers, and replay backed it up. Maybe that let the runner score, maybe not.

What struck me was that Pagan had the better angle to the ball for a throw home. Maybe that ws why carlos pumped. A slightly longer run, he then had to stop moving to his right and throw home across his body.

No big deal. Maybe he was trying to show his “edge” to Omar.

So, later in the game, you have the mix up on the flyball. maybe that should always be the centerfielder’s ball. At least if it is Carlos beltran. I don’t know who yelled what, who heard what. Both of them could have caught it. Perhaps that is beltran’s fault. Is it because they don’t play together? Some of it, likely. Is it because pagan should have backed off? maybe. Did Pagan have anything in his mind about beltran running in front of him to take the earlier flyball when, at least in my amateurish view, Pagan had the better angle? probably not.

What we do know is, publicly, beltran, rightly or wrongly, slammed Pagan. Didn’t say simply we both have to work together, and say whatever he wants privately.

And I know that likely has very little to do with Wins and Losses. Only, quite clearly, the miscommunication had a lot to do with that loss. Not as much as Ramon Martinez sucking, or Reed playing out of position (although I imagine, even though he hasn’t done it by rote a million times, he can make that throw acurately to the catcher-likely not having done it by rote, thinking about it, led to the poor throw).

You shouldn’’t throw a teammate under the bus but it happens all the time (last year, when Santana said he had “done his job” when the punchless Mets lost one of his starts, that headline was displayed on his locker the next day. And no, I don’t wanna get rid of Johan for that either).

Certainly, beltran, reyes and Wright are the best players, among the top 10-20 in baseball. Win the Mets the wins they get. And if Heliman had not regressed, if Wagner hadn’t been hurt, if castillo was not given an idiotic contract, if Church hadn’t gotten a concussion, they’d have won lot more than 1 or 2…Maybe I am just greedy and want more.

Hey, do you remember or ever hear about when reggie jackson loafed after a ball and Martin and he got into a screaming match in the dugout. And jackson and Munson hated each others guts? That was a pretty good team. :)

Of course, I am a Mets fan, so I know the story of Gil Hodges walking out to left field and taking Cleon Jones out of a game in 1969. That kind of has ugly overtones. Cleon had a pretty good year, though.

players all have mental lapses from time to time. Like wright getting snared between 1st and second yesterday. Everyone has issues. And I know that it is a small sample size. Wright 2 outs RISP last year: .243/.328/.376. Beltran .189/.324/.278. Jeter last 3 years: .373/.469/.528.

I know, different batters behind them, Jose and Delgado were great in that situation. Delgado’s problem is more with matador d on grounders. Jose running into outs (and also stealing bases and triples, good with the bad). Jose disappeared last 2 septembers, but that may just be the law of averages.

Maybe I still just have Timo Perez loafing and getting snagged by Jeter in 2000 in my head. Or Piazza constantly not running out flyballs.

My feeling is that it is a a combination of things. Not saying it is simply poor fundamental play by the core. It is endemic to the team in a way. Although I suppose, on a pythagorean basis, they actually outperform. They are so clutch. :)

But, it is no one thing. Wright always runs out balls. Reyes hits in the clutch (of course, just luck). Delgado is a great defender as far as taking throws. Beltran has a phenomenal stolen base percentage. All of them are far above the normal level at their positions. So why has Murphy not busted it to first? Castillo lazed throws to first? I know, it happens on all teams. I just can’t see how it happens now, especially with the scrubs, after what they have been through.

And frankly, I was a little pissed at Manuel, who I like as a person from what I see of him, throwing Church under the bus, and Beltran throwing Pagan under the bus, after the loss 2 nights ago. I suppose that has nothing to do with them losing.

I wouldn’t trade any of those players. well, depends on what you’d get, but I doubt you’d get equal value. You are right, it is the scrubs who stink up the team, and Manuel’s decisions can be odd, and Omar has done a lousy job filling in. So that is the big problem. But as players, there is a small problem. And that might mean 1 more win a year. Wich is how much they have lost by. The players have so much under their control. That’s what they need to take care of.

Don’t know if they need a yeller, a Pinella. A Torre. Both of whom have major flaws as well. I sense Billy Beane could get the over the top with just a few fill-ins (maybe if the Mets had Andrew Bailey lasy year, ha ha).

And again, NOT agreeing with Phillips. But I also don’t agree with just saying there’s nothing there as far as falling short. And they have fallen short of their talent level 3 years in a row, in my mind. May just be the breaks.