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Thanksgiving Discussion Question

Turkey_medium 
HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!

Use this thread to discuss the following question:

If you could have Phillies prospect Michael Taylor for the next ten years, or Marlins prospect Mike Stanton for the next ten years, which one would you pick? Stanton is younger and has higher upside...but here's the catch: part of the deal is that you have to use the player you pick as the regular right fielder for your favorite major league team beginning in 2010...and they have to get at least 500 plate appearances in both 2010 and 2011 (at least 1000 PA combined) no matter how badly they may do. Under these conditions, who do you pick?

Poll
Stanton or Taylor?
Michael Stanton
704 votes
Michael Taylor
407 votes

1111 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 27 comments |

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Comments

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I went with Taylor

I like Stanton a lot more, but he also strikes me as the kind of player who might not pan out if not given time to refine his game.

by Fanon on Nov 26, 2025 2:27 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

This.

Under John’s premise, I’d have real concerns about Stanton’s ability to overcome what would be a really, really rough 2010; he strikes me as the type of player that you could do some real damage to if you rushed him like that.

by PhillyFriar on Nov 26, 2025 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Just out of curiousity, what's the reasoning behind this?

His power is already prodigious. I feel like even if he wouldn’t be as valuable as Taylor in his first season or so, his already developed power skills would allow him to carry at least a bit of value, and that the more he adjusted to the way major league pitchers are are able to control the zone, he’d become exponentially more valuable, to the point where I could very well see him moving up and post Ryan Howard as perhaps the best power hitter in the game while Howard was on his way down.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 26, 2025 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Strikeouts

His strikeouts jumped dramatically when he got to Double-A. Given his youth, I don’t think it’s much cause for concern going forward. If, however, you were to jump him directly to the majors, he’d almost definitely have huge contact problems. While I realize Wily Mo Pena is by no means a great comp, he’s the giant red flag that comes to mind; if he’d had time to mature in the minors, he might well have gotten his strikeout problems under control. Instead he was rushed and never even settled in as a solid regular. Now, Stanton is significantly different in that he can take a walk, but assuming the power will carry him to stardom when he clearly hit a bit of a wall at Double-A last year is a bit overly optimistic for my tastes.

by Fanon on Nov 27, 2025 12:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I understand that

But I’m not sure the risk of promoting him straight to the majors changes his long term projection. Is he less likely to figure it out in the majors than in Triple-A? Maybe, but I don’t see anything but anecdotal evidence to support that conclusion. And his power level is also unmatched. Its not just that he’s good at it, he’s way better at it than any prospect of any age, plus he was only 19 and in Double-A. He could get away with a 25-30% K% and still be a useful player, and if it comes down any lower than that, he’s an instant star.

By contrast, I’m much more concerned about the K% jump for a guy like Ike Davis, even if he did rake in Double-A. Davis is a solid prospect, but he’s not inferior just because he’s older, he’s inferior because a first baseman who hits 25 HR a year and has a 25-30% K% is a pretty middling player. A guy who hits 40+ HR a year to go with a similar K% and plays reasonable defense in RF is substantially more valuable.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 27, 2025 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd probably take Stanton

Just to bet that the upside would take hold after some adjustment time, and I’m not so sure he won’t be ready for the majors some time this season anyway. Still, I’m not fond of a hypothetical that might beg me to ruin a talented prospect.

But I’m thankful for good baseball discourse and the people who provide the forum for it. Happy Thanksgiving, all.

by aap212 on Nov 26, 2025 12:55 PM EST reply actions  

I’m not fond of a hypothetical that might beg me to ruin a talented prospect.

Obviously, this is the crux of the issue. Stanton has considerably more upside, but by rushing him to the majors, you’re running the risk of severely hampering his development. It may very well be a risk worth taking, but those saying, “Oh, Stanton, hands down!” are missing the point.

This isn’t a discussion about who’s a better prospect. It’s a question of whether you would run the risk of ruining a great prospect for the chance at greater upside, or going the safe route with a guy who’s pretty clearly going to be an above average major league contributor. Either position is reasonable, but it’s by no means an easy question.

by PhillyFriar on Nov 27, 2025 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Right

That’s why I only said probably Stanton. And it’s why I find the hypothetical to be a little grim. We’ve seen so many guys like Jose Guillen and Jeff Francoeur with lots of talent just kind of tossed haphazardly and half-developed into the majors. It’s icky to think about choosing to do that ourselves in this hypothetical scenario.

by aap212 on Nov 27, 2025 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

But its a selection bias to say

That those guys failed because they were rushed. I understand that intuitively it seems there’s greater risk in rushing a prospect, but we really don’t know what would have happened to Jeff Francoeur or Jose Guillen had they had more time in the minors. They may never have developed the skills that would have turned them from talented, yet incomplete baseball players into complete players. Nor do we know what would have happened to a guy like, say, Chase Utley, if he were given a full time major league gig at age 21 or 22 instead of 24. Most of the objective evidence I’ve seen suggests the success rate of prospects isn’t nearly as dependent on how ready for the majors they were when they were first called up. Lots of guys who this happen to fail, but many also take their lumps and eventually reach their potential as well. Is the rate of guys who reach their potential lower for those guys than guys who were given an extra season or two in Triple-A? Lots of those guys fail too.

I’m not saying that rushing prospects doesn’t create additional risk, but I think it often gets overstated.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 27, 2025 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Most of the objective evidence I’ve seen suggests the success rate of prospects isn’t nearly as dependent on how ready for the majors they were when they were first called up.

Not being a smartass here, but can you point to any of this? I have some genuine interest.

An aspect of this question that’s particularly important is that you can’t send Stanton down if he can’t hack it. Guys like Francoeur and Guillen probably developed bad habits by taking hacks in the major leagues before they were ready, but they had enough success that warranted their staying on a major league roster. I think it incredibly likely that Stanton would struggle to a .220 average with a 40% K rate in the majors in 2010, and taking 500 plate appearances would only cement the bad habits he’d inevitably pick up.

by PhillyFriar on Nov 27, 2025 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm looking

I feel like I remember reading something on BP at some point about this, maybe it was THT or BBTF. I’ll dig around and see if I can find something, if not, maybe I’ll try to run a little study on my own and fanpost it up, looking at Top Prospects lists from the last decade or so and the success rate of different guys who took different amounts of time to get to the majors.

For the time, its certainly possible that Francoeur/Guillen developed bad habits that lead to their failures, but whose to say it happened because they reached the majors so fast? By all accounts I’ve heard, Francoeur was a guy who was always a superstar his whole life before MLB, never had a need to adjust his hacktastic ways. Maybe in a different, lower profile organization, where he wasn’t the hometown boy, he didn’t have a million people telling him he was going to succeed immediately, it would have been different. More attention would have been paid to the fact that he didn’t really excel in any one area at any point in his minor league career, and there were some glaring red flags. If he came up in KC or TB, maybe he’d have been more willing to address the issues with his approach, or the coaches would have been more likely to forcefeed him advice that he never got in Atlanta because of his instant rock-stardom. Stanton has red flags, but he also does substantially excel in one particular area, the skill he does have, he probably has more of than any other prospect in the minors right now.

What about Jose Reyes? What if the Mets didn’t call him up on his 19th birthday, proceeded to sign Kaz Matsui the following season, and left Reyes in the upper level minors for a few years, where he bounced around the infield trying to crack the roster by playing different positions, trying to become a defensive minded infielder with speed and an inability to draw walks? Maybe since the focus would have been more about finding a roster spot rather than finding a way to get on base as an everyday leadoff man, he never would have developed his solid plate discipline, which could have also sapped some of his power, since he’d be swinging at more bad pitches, and he’d never have become the star he is today.

What if Stanton gets left in the minors for two more years, destroys upper level pitching for a good portion of that, comes up, and then has the 40% K%? Do you then send him back down? Couldn’t that be as volatile a decision as “rushing him”? Instead, if you do “rush him” and he struggles (moving outside John’s hypothetical case), he wouldn’t be expected to produce immediately, so if he had to be sent down to work on something, or even if he was kept on the roster to work on things, it wouldn’t be such a blow to the high expectations placed on him.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 27, 2025 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Stanton by a mile

At age 19, Stanton outperformed a 22-year-old Taylor in A+. Similar BB rates, Stanton holds the edge in power despite being 4 years younger, the only thing that really is in Taylor’s favor is K rate.

by delmonfan on Nov 26, 2025 3:40 PM EST reply actions  

Okay...

But regardless of age, I don’t think you can simply ignore that he hit a wall at Double-A, particularly considering that he has the skill-set of a guy that you really need to worry about when he hits a wall at Double-A. Moreover, is it really reasonable to base a comp on a 50 game sample?

by Fanon on Nov 27, 2025 12:42 AM EST up reply actions  

"Regardless of age"

Why “regardless of age”? He was 19 when he hit AA. The league leaders in the Southern League are 22-28. The only thing that collapsed was his BABIP - not his power and not his BB percentage. I’d be much more worried if his BB or ISOP collpased.

by delmonfan on Nov 27, 2025 1:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Stanton. Hands down.

He’s Prince Fielder; the right handed, more athletic version. And he’s a great right fielder.

by JP 23 on Nov 26, 2025 7:02 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

A good offensive comparison right now is Mark Reynolds in the outfield

Stanton skill wise reminds me of Reynolds in his 2006 A+/AA season. Right now, I can see Stanton doing something similar to Reynolds first two seasons. Of course, he has much more time to improve his approach by decreasing his Ks and increasing walks and power.

by tdot mariner fan on Nov 26, 2025 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

re

Stanton is a hell of a prospect, but he hit .231 in 340 AA plate appearances and struck out 29% of the time. Michael Taylor conversely might be the most major league ready hitting prospect in the minors. How could Stanton in the overall possibly eclipse the difference in value there would be between the two in 2010 and 2011? Taylor’s ceiling may not be sky high, but it’s very significant, and definitely not dwarfed by Stanton’s. Is Stanton going to be Albert Pujols in 2012-2015?

by AgitationStation on Nov 26, 2025 7:54 PM EST reply actions  

read it wrong

thought it was for five years, not ten. I’d probably take Stanton for that stretch. It’s pretty close though.

by AgitationStation on Nov 26, 2025 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think its that close

Stanton has unheard of power. 18.4% HR/FB for a 19 year old in Double-A? That’s what he’s doing when he’s overmatched? He could be a perennial .300 ISO guy. He won’t make contact the way Albert Pujols does, but if he draws walks and keeps his defense up to par, he has the potential to be Ryan Howard plus.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 26, 2025 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Definitley Stanton

I like Taylor as well, but I think Stanton has the edge

Check out my website, it has scouting reports for all the Orioles' top prospects and is updated daily. www.oriolesprospects.com

Follow me on twitter

by ravensfan3 on Nov 26, 2025 9:15 PM EST reply actions  

poll

I’m surprised it isn’t closer….I set the question up to try and make it a dilemma.

by John Sickels on Nov 27, 2025 1:07 PM EST reply actions  

No, I think people voting for Stanton think of it as

Who is more likely to be more productive over the next 10 year in the majors. If it was five years, it would be much closer, and if it was three years, it would probably be completely reversed.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 27, 2025 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Why should it be closer?

In June, Stanton was regarded as the #1 prospect in baseball, coming off the Gammons piece and a superb stint in A+. What changed between June and now is that Stanton’s BABIP fell in AA. The strikeout rate he had in AA was the same as his strikeout rate in A, his walk rate was similar, his ISOP only differed by the BABIP difference, and his GB/LD ratios were just about the same. So basically he hit a bunch less singles.

If you believed in June that Stanton was a 40 HR player at the ML level, you probably haven’t changed that conclusion at all - your only question will be about batting average. We’re not talking about a player with poor tools or makeup concerns - supposedly he is off the charts on both athleticism and makeup, so the

Basically the question is going to come down to whether you want 8 or 9 years of a Hunter Pence or 7 years of a Mark McGwire/Jose Canseco-type without makeup concerns. I’ll take the upside.

by delmonfan on Nov 27, 2025 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

re poll

I love the idea of this post, and I’d love to see more questions like this one. I chose Stanton without thinking twice not only because it’s for 10 years, but for the next 2 years, I don’t see the Marlins overtaking the Phillies. The Marlins are better than a lot of people think, but I think they’re just out of making the playoffs for the next couple of years. I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing Stanton mature in the majors, but we know this won’t happen because the Marlins don’t want his clock to start.

by rmarx on Nov 29, 2025 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

If I look at both coming up in their current organization, I take Taylor. Simply because the Phillies should remain WS contenders and having Taylor (or Ibanez) coming off the bench can have a huge impact. The Marlins can fight for a playoff spot, but would be a stretch as a WS contender, so no need to rush Stanton.

If instead, I’m the Nationals (or a similar club years from contending) and The Phillies/Marlins are giving me the kid for free. I’ll take my chances with Stanton.

by Cormican on Dec 1, 2025 3:58 PM EST reply actions  

Mike Stanton

All I can tell you is that we’re in the middle of our Top 25 MLB Fantasy Prospects for 2010 & Beyond and Michael Taylor is not on it, but Mike Stanton IS. http://www.mlbfantasyprospects.com/2009/12/12-mlb-fantasy-prospect-mike-stanton-of-florida—-scouting-report.html

by Steve @ MLB Fantasy Prospects on Dec 7, 2025 6:24 PM EST reply actions  

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