Oakland Athletics Prospect Discussion
I'm currently working on the Brewers organization for the book. The next team on the list is the Oakland Athletics. Use this thread to discuss this very deep system.
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The following are seen very differently by various members of the A's fanbase
Josh Donaldson — good hitting catcher or not going to stick there and bat no good anywhere else?
Henry Rodriguez — Jose Rijo or Franklyn German?
Craig Italiano — Starter or reliever?
Matt Sulentic — League average LF or fringe major leaguer?
Nino Leyja — Stunning 15th round bargain or 40 game AZL fluke?
Sean Doolittle — Good hitting Doug MIentkiewicz or real Doug Mientkiewicz?
Chris Carter — Mark McGwire or Russell Branyan?
Michel Inoa — Walter Johnson or Sidd Fynch?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 9, 2025 11:02 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
My votes
Donaldson — not going to stick at C
Rodriguez — Oliver Perez
Italiano — Reliever
Sulentic — Gabe Gross
Leyja — Fluke
Doolittle — Real Doug
Carter — McGwire
Inoa — Train
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 9, 2025 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Always love these sorts of posts
Donaldson - Stays at catcher, an okay hitter if he makes it
HRod - German
Italiano - Reliever
Sulentic - Fringe
Leyja - Fluke
Doolittle - For the moment, real Doug, but the potential to be better is there
Carter - Branyan + walks - defensive value
Inoa - Who knows? But if he’s healthy, he’s not Sidd Fynch.
by mrkupe on Dec 9, 2025 11:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My Top 10+
1. Trevor Cahill A- Terrific numbers at A+ and AA at age 20, concerned with walks after promotion but willing to cut him some slack for the nice hit rate.
2. Brett Anderson B+ Awesome control, young, groundball machine - concerns with stuff but will probably be a great #2
3. Aaron Cunningham B+ Don’t know why he doesn’t get any love, no holes in his game, not a star but a very solid all-around player
4. Adrian Cardenas B Obvious concerns with power somewhat ameliorated by plate discipline, age - if he can stick at SS he’ll be great, at 2B he’ll be just pretty good
5. Michael Inoa B- Based on physical projection and stuff alone, but both are incredible.
6. Chris Carter B- Slight concerns with “old guy skills” but Jack Cust’s first-base-playing brother is still a pretty decent prospect
7. James Simmons B- Solid control, too many hits = backend guy
8. Gio Gonzalez C+ Total enigma, upside around a #3, downside pitching in a beer league - immense talent but can he harness it?
9. Vince Mazzaro C+ Want to see another year of good numbers before ranking him higher, but this year’s numbers were great until the promotion.
10. Jemile Weeks C+ Not wild about him, but if he can be his brother with better plate discipline he’ll be pretty good.
Other C+ types: Sean Doolittle, Josh Outman, Neudy Clime, Matt Sulentic, Josh Donaldson, Jose Guzman, Thomas Italiano
by OccamsRazor on Dec 9, 2025 11:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Overall, not as crazy about the system as some others
It’s pitching heavy - I don’t see a star in any of the position players. Then again, that’s the Beane style - lots of solid guys in the lineup with a sick rotation.
by OccamsRazor on Dec 9, 2025 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gonzalez's upside is higher than a #3 starter
You said he’s an “immense talent.” But you’re right, it’ll be tough to harness all of his stuff. But if he does, he will do very well. He’s been fantastic in the minors but a few games in the majors obviously turned you off.
by NateHST on Dec 9, 2025 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Command
His walk rate for his minor league career is about 4 per 9. I haven’t seen him pitch, but I want to see him get his fastball over the plate more consistently.
Guys with good breaking stuff but command issues and so-so fastballs don’t usually turn into aces.
by OccamsRazor on Dec 9, 2025 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We're not talking about the probability that he becomes an ace
we’re talking about his stuff and his talent, which is ace potential.
by NateHST on Dec 9, 2025 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gio Gonzalez--enigma
I think that enigma is definitely the right word to use when referring to Gio. As a guy who followed the box scores of Gio very closely last year, it was really frustrating to see 3 games where he would give up a total of 1 hit and get about 11K//9 and then he wouldn’t make it out of the 4th, giving up 6 walks and 2 Ks.
I think that if he is ever able to find the plate on a consistent basis he could be much better than a #3. I’m talking about a guy who has the stuff to be a ‘tweener 1/2 pitcher. He’s got a sweet curveball, a nice fastball with good movement when it’s on and a developing change. He can really miss bats when he’s on. And while he seems to have been in the minors forever, he just turned 23 a couple months ago. Many pitchers are just thinking about AAA at that point. He definitely has time to develop his command. I think a B-/C+ is a good rating for him right now based on the fact that he doesn’t have that command, but I would contest that his upside is only that of a #3.
On another note, that’s quite a bullish rating of Cunningham. He does have pretty good tools all around (although nothing is awesome) and you can’t argue with the production.
by nobodyinparticular on Dec 9, 2025 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Anderson
I’m not sure why people are still talking about a “lack of stuff” when it comes to Brett Anderson. The guy has very good control of two plus secondary pitches and a fastball that’s going to work just fine in the high 80s, perhaps in the low 90s.
About the worst things I can say about Anderson are that he doesn’t throw in the mid-90s and that he doesn’t have a pitch that grades out as plus-plus. Everything else is just plain awesome.
by mrkupe on Dec 9, 2025 11:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Anderson's fastball is sitting solidly in the low-90s at this point
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 10, 2025 12:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Top 12
1. Trevor Cahill A-
2. Brian Anderson A-
3. James Simmons B
4. Adrian Cardenas B
5. Michael Inoa B
6. Aaron Cunningham B
7. Henry Rodriguez B-
8. Gio Gonzalez B-
9. Fautino de los Santos B-
10. Chris Carter B-
11. Sean Doolittle B-
12. Jemile Weeks C+
by byronlhsdrmr on Dec 9, 2025 11:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Listing
Brian Anderson instead of Brett Anderson and putting Henry Rodriguez, who had a 43/44 K/BB in AA, over Chris Carter, somewhat reduces the credibility your list. Where is Mazzaro?
by OccamsRazor on Dec 9, 2025 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My man-crush on the former Diamondbacks starter Brian Anderson continues to haunt me...
Just a mind flub on that one. I do not like Carter, personal bias, I do not see what is to love so much… they have the same grade. Mazzaro is also a C+ he just happens to be behind Weeks.
by byronlhsdrmr on Dec 9, 2025 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
comparisons to Brett, and Brian Anderson...
Their first names both start with B.
Both their last names are Anderson.
Both are lefties.
Both have ties to the Diamondbacks.
So, confusing the two, not so far-fetched.
by byronlhsdrmr on Dec 9, 2025 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BA also had Rodriguez over Carter in their Cal League prospect ranking
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 9, 2025 8:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
pretty tough on Carter
Carter was a B- last year and hit a few hrs last year as I recall. I know he still has the k problems but I would think that it all balances out more like a B and closer to B+ than B-.
by Dalman on Dec 9, 2025 12:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Brett Anderson vs. Trevor Cahill
i question why everywhere i turn (sans BA) i find Cahill above Anderson
they are the same age and pitched nearly the same amount of time at A+ and AA this year. Cahill had silly numbers at A+, while Anderson merely had eye opening stats. Then promoted to AA cahill had a bit of a hiccup and anderson just kept on putting up ridiculous numbers.
All the while, anderson is a lefty where cahill is a righty… reports are that anderson is in better shape and his fastball is up a couple ticks… All the while anderson had a BABIP of .313/.324 A+/AA and Cahill’s numbers were supported by BABIP of .253/.242 A+/AA
(notice when anderson’s numbers got better at the more challenging level his BABIP went the opposite direction, and cahill regressed a bit as his BABIP dropped… i know the sample size at AA is small, but it cant be completely ignored… 31/37 innings 5/6 starts)
by PHGold09 on Dec 9, 2025 12:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
oops
gotta learn how to use the italics… and not being able to edit….
by PHGold09 on Dec 9, 2025 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Anderson is in better shape?
Ive read that Cahill is supposed to be a phenomenal natural athlete. Have you heard something bad about his conditioning?
by alskor on Dec 10, 2025 5:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he means
that Anderson is in better shape than he used to be. Not that he is in better shape than Cahill.
by DiegoAsFan on Dec 10, 2025 8:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Generally, I agree with you
I don’t understand why Cahill is considered a better prospect either.
by thejd44 on Dec 10, 2025 7:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My List
1. Trevor Cahill - A-
2. Brett Anderson - A-
3. Cardenas - B - I think he could be a solid/average 2B, which is pretty good by my standards. With the possibility of being able to play SS,
4. Gio Gonzalez - B - I still have faith that he is better than he has shown
5. Aaron Cunningham - B - I’m not sure he’s much better than he is now and he may peak early
6. Chris Carter - B- - I just don’t see his appeal as much and see him as a high failure candidate. I’m so want to drop him down to C+ but down have the cajones.
7. Michael Inoa - B- - I can’t rate him any higher until I see him pitch
8. Fautino de Los Santos - B- - Expect a solid recovery from TJ surgery
9. Vince Mazzaro - C+ - I think he’s a fluke, but I’m becoming more mixed on the subject.
10. Jemile Weeks - C+ - I think he will grade out better after this year, but this is the best I can do for now.
11. James Simmons - C+ - I just don’t see it. I see a good reliever at best, which would still warrant the C+ grade
12. Sean Doolittle - C+ - Still have the urge to switch him and Carter as I think Doolittle will have more utility down the line
13. Josh Donaldson - C+ - Still has a chance to stick at Catcher in my mind
14. Rashun Dixon - C+ - on tools alone
The rest I’d have in my top 20 as C’s - Andrew Bailey, Henry Rodriguez, Matt Sulentic, Anthony Recker, Craig Italiano, Brett Hunter
Obviously, some are borderline C+, but I wouldn’t grade them that off the top by any means.
by thudean on Dec 9, 2025 1:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
de los Santos
Does anyone know what is really happening with him? Anyone else believe he will return to form?
Play ball!
by tmannino on Dec 9, 2025 1:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He had TJS last May
Lord knows when he’ll be back on the field, probably not until extended spring training breaks up.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 9, 2025 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My Top 25 List
1. Trevor Cahill B+
2. Brett Anderson B+
These two are really interchangeable, but I’ll give a slight nod to Cahill. I wouldn’t give them A- grades yet, but if they can pitch as well in AA in 2009 as they did this year, then I’d say they are A- prospects next year.
3. Chris Carter B+
Carter should be a guy capable of posting an OPS of 900 or better even with a low batting average. The guy has 40 HR power. Just not on the level of Cahill/Anderson.
4. Aaron Cunningham B
5. Adrian Cardenas B
6. James Simmons B
7. Gio Gonzalez B
Cunningham looks to be an Andre Ethier type hitter, which is pretty valuable. He gets underrated all the time. Cardenas has been young for his, and I think he’ll develop at least 15 HR power, which is plenty with his contact ability and walk rate. He could be a B+ type guy once the power comes, especially if he can stay at SS. If not, he’ll still be fine at either 2B or 3B. Simmons and Gonzalez could be interchangeable as well. Gio has more potential but is less likely to reach it, and Simmons could easily do more with less in the bigs.
8. Michael Inoa B-
9. Fautino De Los Santos B-
10. Vincent Mazzaro C+/B-
I know that Iona has all the hype, but I can’t see putting him any higher than this with out throwing a pitch, and even at this point I’m not 100% comfortable ranking him here. Not sure you can really put him lower though. FDLS should bounce back fine from TJ surgery, and could rocket back up the charts in 2009. Call this cautious optimism. Mazzaro…I don’t know what to think. I need another year of good pitching to rank him any higher, because he either doesn’t have the track record or ceiling the guys above him have. That said, I think he can be a valuable piece to a big league team, but I’m sure if it’s just as a swingman or as a #3 or #4 starter.
11. Sean Doolitte C+
12. Jemile Weeks C+
13. Josh Donaldson C+
14. Henry Alberto Rodriguez C+
15. Arnold Leon C+
16. Craig Italiano C+
Doolittle could be valuable if only becomes Doug Meintkjdlfjasdlfjlas like was mentioned above, but if his bat really does have some life in it, he could be a B/B- type guy next year. Weeks might be underrated here, but let’s call it name bias for now. I want to see a little more before moving him up, seeing how much his brother has struggled. Donaldson would move up the list if can stick at C or can handle 3B. If he’s a 1B/DH/COF type, he’s probably ranked appropriately, if not a bit too high. HRod probably isn’t going to make it as a SP, same with Italiano, but both could be excellent late inning RP’s if they can’t stay in the rotation. Leon….I don’t think “sleeper” is the right word, but I like this guy a lot. Call this a conservative ranking with the ability to see him in the B/B+ range next year. He’s that good.
17. Josh Outman C+
18. Rashun Dixon C+
19. Andrew Carignan C+
20. Sam Demel C+
21. Brett Hunter C+
22. Corey Brown C+
Outman could be a decent 4/5 starter if things break right, but I’d say he’s a LOOGY at worst, making him valuable but limited. Dixon is a toolsy guy who you argue should be higher, but I want to see more than AZL results before putting him much higher. Carignan/Demel are two more interchangeable guys. Both are fast tracking RP’s who need to sort out their control. If the walk rate drops, you’re looking at two setup quality relievers. Hunter could move up the list quickly too. Brown has to cut down on the K’s, but if he can get them into the 120 range, he could be an above average COF.
23. Andrew Bailey C
24. Tyson Ross C
25. Petey Paramore C
Bailey really clicked after moving to the pen. He’s got alot of competition there, but he could move up with a good 2009 season. Ross and Paramore are two 2008 draftees that showed some success in short stints this year. I think both could be C+ type guys next year.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Dec 9, 2025 2:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree with your list more than most
except that you compared Jemile to his brother, Rickie. They are completely different players.
by NateHST on Dec 9, 2025 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I know
I was just really big on Rickie as a prospect, and he’s disappointed some. Not saying that it will happen to Jemile, just want to see a little more, and until I do I’m not going higher due to his name. Nothing scientific about it, just being cautious.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Dec 9, 2025 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mazzaro
Long is the list of pitchers who were absolutely atrocious in college for their first two seasons and then broke out big time in their third year. If you think of 2006 in KC as his freshman year, 2007 in Stockton as his sophomore year, and 2008 as his junior year, the development doesn’t look quite so startling.
Also - this is a great reminder that (as I am admittedly a little prone to preaching) age-relative-to-league isn’t very important when it comes to pitchers. I care about what he’s throwing and where he’s throwing it - who he’s throwing it against doesn’t concern me nearly as much as those first two.
by mrkupe on Dec 9, 2025 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you're right
and I’m wrong, but I’m just going to be a little cautious with him.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Dec 9, 2025 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My top 10
1. Brett Anderson A- Has been successful at every level, great command, improving fastball to go with a good slider. Also he’s left handed, almost as sure a bet to be a good pitcher as you can get a AA.
2. Trevor Cahill A- Great sinking fastball which really helps him to limit hits and HR’s, also a good Knuckle Curve which helps him get K’s. BB rate was average but improving at lower levels. Saw component ratios take a severe turn in the wrong direction in a small sample at AA which knocks him just below Anderson.
3. Chris Carter B Enormous Power, good eye, terrible contact rate. More athletic than he’s given credit for I think if given a chance could play league average 1B.
4. Aaron Cunningham B Has been successful at every level at appropriate age, even if his power doesn’t develop anymore will be above average as a corner outfielder and will be excellent as a CF if he can stick there.
5. Adrian Cardenas B Shows good contact ability and a good batting eye from a middle infielder. Scouts have said there is more pop in his bat and he has been young for his level, but even without much power will be useful at 2B.
6. Gio Gonzalez B Close to B- I went with my gut and gave the B. He has struggled adjusting to higher levels in the past, usually due to a jump in BB rate early on. I think once he gains confidence at the MLB level his BB/9 will get back to 3’s and he will become a very effective pitcher.
7. Michael Inoa B- To be honest I’m not sure where he should go with no performance to judge him, but it sounds like he has all the tools to be a great starter so I think a B- is good for now.
8. James Simmons B- Went directly to AA as a 20 y/o College grad and had success, again put up good numbers especially if you account for the sleep apnia which hurt his performance mid year. Right now is a Fastball/change guy with excellent control. Has a great pitcher’s mindset and I believe he can develop an adequate 3rd pitch.
9. Sean Doolittle B- Great defense at 1B and showing more power than anyone thought. The increase in power has caused his K-rate to spike. Was known for having a good swing before this year, I think with more work the power will come more naturally and he will be able to lower the K’s a bit.
10. Vince Mazzaro B- Broke out in a big way as a 21 y/o at AA. Number at lower levels were much worse but A’s coaches said he pitched much better than the numbers showed a A+. Good sinking fastball with decent breaking pitches and good control. Will not be as good as he was in 2008 but I think he will prove to be a valuable starter.
Just missed: Jemile Weeks, Josh Donalds, Fautino De Los Santos, Sam Demel, Josh Outman
by DiegoAsFan on Dec 9, 2025 2:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Has there been anything saying that Cunningham is a CF?
by NateHST on Dec 9, 2025 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's been said
that he could maybe play CF, but he wouldn’t be excellent like he’s described above. He would average at best defensively in center, but his bat would play very well there. In a corner, he’ll be an above average defender and probably an average to above average hitter.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Dec 9, 2025 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
CHONE projects +5 in a corner, -4 in center
That’s runs above average.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 9, 2025 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I was unclear
I didn’t mean to say he would be an excellent defender in CF, only that his offensive numbers would look excellent for a CFer if he could muster adequate defense to stay there.
by DiegoAsFan on Dec 9, 2025 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cause it's fun
Grades for A’s prospects
Cahill A- (interchangable with Anderson)
Anderson A- (interchangable with Cahill)
Cardenas B+ (very good for his age, just needs to add a bit more power)
Gio Gonzalez B+ (the PCL is HARD, no complaints)
Cunningham B (probably a decent hitter, but defensive value drags him down . . .maybe a B-?)
Carter B (closer to B- than B+)
Simmons B- (looking like the poor man’s Kevin Slowey)
Mazzaro B- (I think he’s a solid 3)
Doolittle B- (will cut some slack for strong defensive value and first full year as a hitter, but I’m not convinced that the strikeouts and power are totally related . . .struck out a ton in AA as well)
Weeks B- (maybe a B?)
HRod C+ (but obviously with higher potential, just think he’s incredibly raw even as a reliever)
Italiano C (even more raw than HRod, concerned about stamina, injury issues, 2nd pitch, command . . .)
Inoa B (I split the difference between A- and C+)
by mrkupe on Dec 9, 2025 2:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
+2
that’s a sly way to settle on a grade for Inoa…
by Patrick Clark on Dec 9, 2025 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure PT will do this much better than me
but I think you’re under-estimating the value of a #3 starter. In real baseball, outside of shallower fantasy leagues, a #3 is a very valuable thing, and frankly might decide more pennant races than a #1 (how many teams have lost championships because they lost an ace, and compare that with the amount that lost one because their #5 was terrible). If Simmons is a poor man’s Slowey, which I think is a reasonable if slightly conservative estimate, then he is worth much more than a B- - at least a B and maybe even a a B+. (Slowey, recall, in his first full year in the majors had an OPS+ of 102, already a valuable thing from a starting pitcher. And there’s every reason to think that number will go up) If Mazzaro looks like a solid #3, which I generally agree with, then he should be a B as well.
Otherwise, I like your list - I think you’re a touch optimistic on Cardenas and Gio, and a touch pessimistic on Cunningham and Carter, as well as HRod. I wouldn’t have said a B for Inoa, but your argument convinced me
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by OldProspects on Dec 9, 2025 8:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Mazzaro is a solid #3 (yet)
But I agree that someone who reliably projects as such should be a B or even a B+ (if he’s really reliable and already has some big league success).
Hence my rating of Simmons as a B.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 9, 2025 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
La la la
You liked my list of 11 guys except for the 7 (almost 8) guys you disagreed with?
Nope. If anything, it’s wise to shoot low on expectations for starting pitchers. A guy who projects as a 2 can easily end up as a No. 3. Guys who project as 3s often end up as 4s or 5s. Plenty of guys get drafted with the comment “looks like a definite mid-rotation starter” and they end up nowhere close to that.
I like Mazzaro and from what I can tell, I like him more than a lot of other people like him. If he works out, he’s a 3, which would probably be worth a B or even a B+. But the probability of him being a success remains somewhat low. He’s a guy with a good sinker, average at best other pitches, and good control - this is Carlos Silva, and whether this is bad Silva or good Silva remains to be seen. To borrow PT’s word, I don’t believe Mazzaro is “reliably” anything just yet. Mazzaro was one of the easiest guys to put a grade on for me, FWIW.
There is not “every reason” to think that Slowey will markedly improve. I love the guy - he’s fearless and gets the most out of his stuff. But his command is already about as good as it gets. I suspect he’ll end up being a guy who pitches around league average or perhaps very slightly above for a long time. I think Simmons will be less than that, and there’s a pretty good chance that he’s significantly less than that. Slowey was a better pitcher at the same level, and I doubt that Simmons comes anywhere close to what Slowey did in AAA. The margin of error is very tight for command guys. It only gets tighter at higher levels, and it doesn’t change from year to year. Go ask Brian Bannister or Jeremy Sowers about that. So even in the case of Slowey, I’ll confess to being a skeptic. Call me in five years on him.
Gio is the same as ever really. His AAA performance was tremendous - needs to work on the walks still, but the rest of those numbers are great for the PCL.
by mrkupe on Dec 9, 2025 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Simmons's K rate is vastly superior to Sowers
and the only reason Bannister is close is that he kicked around the low minors until he was 3 years older than Simmons is.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 10, 2025 12:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I'm aware
I didn’t invoke the name of Jeremy Sowers to mean “James Simmons = right-handed Jeremy Sowers”. But both are certainly finesse pitchers. Simmons gave up well over a hit an inning and that was in AA. Slowey never came close to 1 H/IP until he reached the majors.
I think Simmons will be a successful major league pitcher. But that doesn’t mean I think he’ll necessarily be a successful major league pitcher of high quality (and yes, I consider No. 3 starters to be "pitchers of high quality). And I’m not dumb enough to think that I’m definitely right . . .but based on the evidence, if I’m wrong, the result is going to skew towards the less favorable outcomes rather than the more favorable outcomes.
by mrkupe on Dec 10, 2025 1:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have never seen a scrap of evidence anywhere to tell me that hit rate in the minors
tells you anything other than how lucky a pitcher was, and how good (or bad) the defense behind him was. Not a scrap. Everything I’ve seen suggests the opposite. If you (apostrophizing the entire audience here) want to make an argument about a pitcher having mediocre stuff, do it on the basis of his scouting report, not some lame-ass proxy like hit rate.
About the only effect I can see it having is that pitchers with randomly lower hit rates might fool GMs into giving them more chances to succeed, thus increasing the chances that they’ll “find it” and break out rather than get released.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 10, 2025 1:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, but what about the K-rate?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 10, 2025 1:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Everything I’ve seen suggests the opposite."
Crazy talk. You can suggest that defense has something to do with hit rates and I’ll gladly agree. You cannot, however, argue that hit rates aren’t clearly the responsibility of the pitcher barring unanticipated statistical flukes.
by mrkupe on Dec 10, 2025 1:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure I can
It’s true. Sean Smith performed a study of AAA pitchers’ later performance in the majors using matched innings pairs, comparing starters with high hit rates to starters with low hit rates and controlling for their pitcher-controlled peripherals like strikeouts, walks, home runs. Guess what? Hit rate had no effect. None. Squadoosh.
Doesn’t mean it’s a settled issue, but it sure as hell means the onus is on the other side to come up with evidence that hit rate matters. And in my view, minor league stats should be guilty until proven innocent. If you don’t KNOW a stat matters, it’s probably better to assume it doesn’t. As I said above, a lot of stats are just crappy proxies for actual information about a player.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 10, 2025 4:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mischaracterizing the debate
Intuitively, hit rate for a minor leaguer matters, as mrkupe states above. One study about AAA pitchers, a level more likely to house retreads than prospects, does not magically shift the onus onto the other side.
by aCone419 on Dec 10, 2025 9:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're mischaracterizing the study
but hey, whatever. Who needs truth when you can invent it?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 10, 2025 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How so?
It was a study of AAA pitchers who also pitched in the majors, no? If I am misunderstanding something feel free to correct me.
No need to be a dick about it.
by aCone419 on Dec 10, 2025 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Believe it or not, most pitchers who pitch in both AAA and the majors don’t suck, or at least don’t suck any more than the average MLB pitcher.
The notion that all good players (especially good pitchers) skip AAA is way, way overblown.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 10, 2025 8:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great
But that wasn’t my point. Pitchers who are shifting between AAA and the MLB are not inherently the same as players at lower levels. You are extrapolating without grounds.
by aCone419 on Dec 11, 2025 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Correct-- they're mostly better than those players at lower levels
What’s your point? Most players at higher levels are better than most players at lower levels.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 11, 2025 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
?
What does that have to do with anything?
by aCone419 on Dec 11, 2025 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly we're talking at cross purposes here
How about this: why don’t you show me your study which indicates or even suggests that hit rates mean ANYTHING. At any level. Even college.
I mean, at least it’d be a start. And it should be pretty low-hanging fruit at that level of play.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 11, 2025 8:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fine
If you would check the condescension at the door, that’d be great.
by aCone419 on Dec 12, 2025 10:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When I said a touch disagree
I meant only if I was going to be seriously didactic. I was basically alright with your grades on everybody but Mazzaro and Simmons.
If we knew for a fact that Mazzaro would become a 3 (which obviously we don’t), then he wouldn’t be a B, he’d be an A (how many prospects certainly have any major league value?). Clearly this is an issue of projection - if you’re less sure of what they’ll do than you seemed to suggest, then I understand you backing off their grades slightly.
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Dec 10, 2025 1:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No. 3 starter prospects
“Projects as a 3” is different from a “sure-fire No. 3 starter”. But even a sure thing as a No. 3, no more and no less, wouldn’t quite warrant an A grade as an A prospect is expected to be more than that. I think the closest thing to that was Jeff Francis, who John gave an A grade to a few years ago, although BA ranked him No. 25 IIRC. Even BA didn’t think that Francis’ ceiling was that high, noting that he only had one plus pitch in his curve, but they liked his very high floor. I’m not sure what John’s exact thoughts were on Francis but I’m presuming that he thought Francis could be a frontline pitcher.
by mrkupe on Dec 10, 2025 2:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
1. Anderson A-
2. Cahill A-
3. Cunningham B+
4. Doolittle B+ (sue me, I like his combo of power potential, great defense, and LD stroke)
5. Cardenas B
6. Carter B
7. Gio B
8. Simmons B
9. Inoa B
10. Mazzaro B-
11. Donaldson B-
12. Leon B- (really high on him)
More later, I think there are a ton of guys here who are good enough to be in the B range based on Sickels’ precedent.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 9, 2025 3:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You're putting Doolittle above Carter?
They had almost identical BB and K rates, but Carter’s ISOP was significantly higher than Doolittle’s. The only reason their OPS were similar was the ludicrously higher BABIP of Doolittle. I can sort of see the argument that they’re equal (though I disagree), but why rate Doolittle higher?
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Dec 9, 2025 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
probably because Doolittle has much more defensive value
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Dec 9, 2025 9:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 9, 2025 10:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Doolittle is a much more complete player then Carter
Doolittle has five tools, while Carter just has one.
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
by Threepwood XX on Dec 10, 2025 12:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Does Doolittle have a power tool or speed tool?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 10, 2025 12:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's pretty silly to talk about a player "having" or "not having" a tool
Everybody falls somewhere along the continuum of any given tool, and they’re incrementally valuable. You could say a guy who hits 3 HR and a guy who hits 4 HR both have “no power,” but the guy who hits 4 HR is, all else being equal, a better player.
Doolittle pretty clearly has plus power with the potential for more at this point. He’s already topped Eyechart’s career seasonal high in HR at age 21. He’s average at hitting-for-average with potential to be above average if he cuts the Ks down toward what he was at in college. Definitely plus in range, fielding ability and arm strength at his position, about average overall. Minus in speed, but not minus-minus…
BTW, I feel compelled to point out that even if you, or anyone, think he’s going to be Doug Mientkiewicz, Dougie’s been a league-average 1B for nine seasons. If you think a league-average player for nine seasons is his median outcome, he has to grade at least a B.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 10, 2025 1:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
by Threepwood XX on Dec 10, 2025 1:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
“Doolittle pretty clearly has plus power with the potential for more at this point.”
I really don’t get why you continue to go exclusively off of 334 ABs in a hitter-friendly environment over the 201 ABs at a somewhat less friendly (albeit still hitter-friendly) environment at a higher level of play. He didn’t hit for power at either stop the year before. The only place he has slugged over .400 (note I didn’t say .500, .400!) is Stockton in the Cal League.
Why is Doolittle so good in your eyes? Yes it was his first full year as a hitter, but he still wasn’t playing at an aggressive level for his age. When playing at AA he wasn’t very useful offensively in any way, hitting .255 with little power and striking out a lot. You can’t just pretend that didn’t happen, and you can’t use the argument that he would be thought of more highly if he had spent the whole year in A ball. If he had, he’d thought of as a Cal League mirage with high K rates. Brandon Wood was a year younger, hit for more power and average, and struck out less than Doolittle when he was there, and look at him! Hell, he even hit the ball much better than Doolittle did in the Texas League at age 21, if you want to use equal results.
by mrkupe on Dec 10, 2025 1:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gah
It’s not a question of 334 ABs versus 201 ABs. Believe it or not, you can actually add those ABs together to create a “combined statline” with “seasonal” numbers. And, believe it or not, more ABs suck less than fewer ABs. You can even add in the AFL stats to get MORE AB’s! Amazing!
The Brandon Wood argument is terrible, because Brandon Wood would be a top 40 prospect and easily the #1 prospect in the Angels system if he still qualified. He hasn’t done much so far. Maybe he needs to get away from Anaheim, which hasn’t done his career any good turns so far. But I think it’s entirely possible that he could break out next season, play for 15 years and end up 2nd all-time in HRs for shortstops. Saying a guy was worse at that age than Wood is like saying a composer’s first piece is worse than Mozart’s. Yes, you’re probably right— what’s your point?
Why is Doolittle so good in my eyes? Well, obviously the defense helps, because it makes it a hell of a lot easier for him to be league-average, but he still has to be above average with the bat to really be good.
Now here’s why I believe the early part of the season more than the later part: conditioning. Last season he hit well in part-time duty in college, got to the pros, started off well, but struggled down the stretch and acknowledged that he was exhausted. He took a month off, came back fresh and absolutely raked in instructional league— he was easily the best hitter in the A’s camp in ’07.
This year was his first as a full-time hitter, playing everyday, and carrying a bunch of extra muscle. Again he started off strong, although this time he was in a hitter’s park so it showed better than it had at UVa. As the season wore on, he dropped off. It happened to coincide with the move to AA but I don’t think that had that much to do with it. Again he takes a month off, goes to the AFL (roughly AA difficulty), and beats up the league (and before you complain about it being a hitter’s league, he had an AFL OPS+ of 120 as a 21-year-old, which is a damn fine line).
I think his numbers are going to look more like his April numbers than his August numbers as he gets more accustomed to the rigor of a full season. I could, of course, be wrong. It could easily be a coincidence. But the explanation fits the facts. I expect it will take 1 or 2 more years for him to really build up the endurance for the marathon baseball season, especially if he continues to bulk up to add more power, but over time, guys adjust.
I could probably say more, but that’s plenty for now.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 10, 2025 4:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hate you for making me think more highly of Doolittle than I want to
Because your argument is very well-reasoned.
Do you think there’s any chance he can be a plus player at a corner OF spot?
by thejd44 on Dec 10, 2025 7:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
I think he’s got the potential to be a +10 defender at first or a +5 in RF, which are about the same in terms of defensive value (roughly equal to a league-average player).
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 10, 2025 8:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly I don't think league average for nine years is Doolittle's median outcome
I think unless he hits a lot better he’s going to have trouble being a major league starter. Of course he could improve and get there.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 10, 2025 1:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
People are writing off Corey Brown WAY too early
The guy strikes out too much, but he has 41 homers in 700 ABs, not counting his HWB stats this year. He has ridiculous power, and his walk rate isn’t all that bad. If he can keep up his stat line at AA next year, as a 23-year old… I can’t see how he stays off of top 100 overall lists, never mind the A’s top 10.
I’d put him in the 8-12 range on the A’s right now.
by RedSoxFaithful on Dec 9, 2025 4:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Brown
Nobody’s writing him off. He’s very talented and does draw walks, but the strikeouts aren’t just bad, they’re obscene.
22 year olds in A ball with severe contact issues tend not to get too much of a pass. Hard to buy him as a major league regular at this point, although he has some skills that give him some potential value there. I think he’s a C+.
by mrkupe on Dec 9, 2025 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brown and Carter
I agree with you on Brown. I love his power, but his potential to hit HRs diminishes greatly with his sever inability to get bat on ball. Right now he’d be lucky to be Dave Kingman. Work on contact and he becomes a much better prospect—even at the expense of power.
I feel that Carter is similar. His contact rate is better, he is better at getting walks and he has even more power, but his inability to get bat on ball worries me. If he can show a better average, fewer strikeouts or both in AA next year, I would say he deserves a B+ or even A-. Until then, I think a B is the best he’s got. If he figures out how to make contact well, he could be a perennial All-Star.
by nobodyinparticular on Dec 9, 2025 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Clarification on Carter
As it would be evidenced by my B grade of Carter in this post, I certainly feel that Carter is a much better prospect than Brown. I just am worried that he will fizzle—or at least not be as effective—if he doesn’t work making contact.
by nobodyinparticular on Dec 9, 2025 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brown
Also has much more defensive value than Carter. Carter had the most total bases and HR in the minors last year. He has monster power potential but needs to show it at AA.
RIVER CATS: AAA CHAMPS!
by niallmack on Dec 9, 2025 7:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Corey Brown's Stats
Here’s Corey Brown’s stat lines thus far. And remember this is for a CF (one that will actually stay at the position, not a corner playing CF)
SS (2007): .268/.379/.545/.924
A- (2008): .270/.359/.483/.842
A+ (2008): .260/.322/.551/.873
If he can end up producing a .260/.340/.500 line in the Majors while playing solid Centerfielder defense, I’d sure as hell take him.
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Dec 9, 2025 8:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm writing him off because I've watched him play
And he looks a lot like Joe Borchard.
by thejd44 on Dec 10, 2025 7:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Were he eligible
Where would Sean Gallagher end up on these lists?
by aCone419 on Dec 9, 2025 5:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
Pretty solid stuff across the board, but command has a tendency to get shaky. I think he’s been pushed a bit too hard, he would’ve benefited a lot from another 75-100 innings in the minors. Grade B, ends up as a quality innings-eater if he can stay healthy.
by mrkupe on Dec 9, 2025 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say he slots in slightly ahead of Gio
so, #7 or so on my list. He actually has nasty stuff (mid 90s fastball with movement, good slider, average changeup and a show-me curveball) and has shown good command in the minors, but he also had the ouchies this season which is never a good sign.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 9, 2025 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Athletics Nation Community Top 24 (and going)
AthleticsNation Top Prospect List:
1. Trevor Cahill, RHP
2. Brett Anderson, LHP
3. Chris Carter, 3B/1B
4. Aaron Cunningham, CF
5. Gio Gonzalez, LHP
6. Adrian Cardenas, SS/2B
7. Sean Doolittle, 1B/RF
8. James Simmons, RHP
9. Vin Mazzaro, RHP
10. Josh Donaldson, C
11. Michel Inoa, RHP
12. Jemile Weeks, 2B
13. Henry Rodriguez, RHP
14. Rashun Dixon, CF
15. Fautino De Los Santos, RHP
16. Arnold Leon, RHP
17. Josh Outman, LHP
18. Corey Brown, CF
19. Brett Hunter, RHP
20. Sam Demel, RHP
21. Andrew Carignan, RHP
22. Tyson Ross, RHP
23. Nino Leyja, SS
24. Matt Sulentic, OF (as of voting right now)
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Dec 9, 2025 6:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Like this list best so far
I might put Weeks a little lower. Love the depth in the system right now. I also think it’s a good sign that nobody can decide who will be better since that shows there is a good chance somebody is right.
RIVER CATS: AAA CHAMPS!
by niallmack on Dec 9, 2025 7:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Some Random Thoughts
Cardenas will be a solid 2B, no way he has the range for SS, makes drafting Weeks look even worse now then it did then unless he turns into a solid CF.
Gio Gonzalez I think he’ll adjust to the majors (it took him time to adjust to AAA) and become a solid starter. I’ve always thought of him as a #3, with hopes he’d progress into a #2. Maybe the nicest guy on earth, I hope he makes it.
Mazzaro gets flat out lost in this system. He is MUCH higher in the ratings of most other farm systems.
by matt0177 on Dec 9, 2025 7:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Why do you say Cardenas doesn't have the range for short
Are you basing it off scouting reports or your own eye test? Just curious. I see statements like this (non-statistical ones) thrown out a lot about prospects and I always wonder who is saying it and what leads them to believe such a thing. You might be right about Cardenas, but I though I’ve heard that some people thought he could handle short.
by thejd44 on Dec 10, 2025 7:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Looking back
it is kind of funny that, of the three HS Pitchers the A’s drafted a couple years back, they have developed in opposite order prospectdom then what people thought they would be.
Mazzaro
Lansford
Italiano
instead of the reverse.
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Dec 9, 2025 8:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
1) Cahill A-
2) Anderson A-
3) Cardenas B
4) Cunningham B
5) Carter B-
6) Simmons B-
7) Gio B-
8) Mazzaro B-
9) Weeks B-
10) Donaldson B-
11) Inoa C+
12) Doolittle C+
by Navi's_Navy on Dec 9, 2025 9:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
My initial thoughts (John's last year grades in parentheses)
1) Brett Anderson, LHP, A- (B+)
2) Trevor Cahill, RHP, A- (B-)
John ranked Anderson higher last year and he’s done nothing to fall.
3) Gio Gonzalez, LHP, B+ (B+)
4) Chris Carter, OF/1B, B+ (B+)
Star potential with major question marks — Gio’s control and Carter’s defense and K’s
5) Adrian Cardenas, 3B, B (B)
6) Aaron Cunningham, OF, B (B-)
Low-risk projected starters with flaws — Cardenas power, Cunningham’s defense
7) Michel Inoa, RHP, B- (NR)
8) Jemile Weeks, 2B, B- (NR)
9) Henry Rodriguez, RHP, B- (B)
10) Fautino De Los Santos, B- (B+)
Star potential but with major question marks — Inoa and Weeks haven’t played professionally or at all, Rodriguez control and high effort delivery and Fautino TJS
11) Vince Mazzaro, B- (C?)
12) Josh Outman, B- (B)
13) James Simmons, B- (B)
14) Corey Brown, B- (B-)
15) Craig italiano, B- (C?)
16) Josh Donaldson, B- (B)
Reasonable projections as average starters, but with question marks — Mazzaro marginal K-rate, Outman control, Simmons lack of out pitch, Brown K’s, Italiano durability, Donaldson’s age and defense
17) Brett Hunter, RHP, C+ (NR)
18) Tyson Ross, RHP, C+ (NR)
19) Rashun Dixon, CF, C+ (NR)
20) Arnold Leon, RHP, C+ (NR)
High upside but longshots due to injury risk (Ross, Hunter), inexperience (Dixon, Leon)
21) Sean Doolittle, 1B, C+ (B-)
22) Carlos Hernandez, LHP, C+ (NR)
23) Matt Sulentic, OF, C+ (C?)
Low upside but potentially useful starters
24) Andrew Bailey, RHP, C+ (B-)
25) Andrew Carignan, RHP, C+ (C+)
26) Sam Demel, RHP, C+ (C+)
27) Jared Lansford, RHP, C+ (NR)
Could be good middle relievers
28) Nino Leyja, SS, C (NR)
29) Robin Rosario, OF, C (NR)
30) Javier Herrera, OF, C (C+)
Lottery picks to be starting players but I like them
31) Petey Paramore, C, C (NR)
32) Dustin Coleman, SS, C (NR)
33) Jason Christian, SS, C (NR)
34) Grant Desme, OF, C (C+)
Some other people like these guys
35) Scott Mitchinson, RHP, C (NR)
36) Shawn Havilland, RHP, C (NR)
37) Tyreace House, CF, C (NR)
38) Daniel Thomas, RHP, C (NR)
39) David Thomas, OF, C (NR)
40) Chris Berroa, OF, C (NR)
Sleepiest of sleepers but showed a sliver of talent
41) Jeff Baisley, 3B
42) Gregorio Petit, SS
43) Landon Powell, C
44) Brad Kilby, LHP
45) Cliff Pennington, SS
Could be useful backups in 2009
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 9, 2025 10:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You're saying Doolittle's 2008 season LOWERED his grade?
No offense, but that’s retarded.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 9, 2025 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's what John said in his Review of the 2008 Top 20
“.305/.385/.560 mark at Stockton was strong, but .245/.294/.422 mark at Midland shows the difference in competition. Strike zone judgment has gotten much worse in Double-A.”
I thought John’s grade last year was a bit high, and his overall performance Stockton + Midland didn’t improve him from a C+. I just have a higher threshold for 1B/LF/RF than the electorate here. I wouldn’t have had that many in the Top 100.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 9, 2025 10:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For the nth time
There is no difference between a shitty fielding shortstop and a great fielding first baseman, in terms of what they have to do with the bat to be better than average players overall.
This is why we have positional adjustments and fielding metrics.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 10, 2025 1:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt I'd have a SFS that hit like Doolittle any higher on this list.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 10, 2025 1:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So, Jason Donald: #21 A's prospect?
Todd Frazier, #21 A’s prospect?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 10, 2025 4:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly I phrased that badly. Adrian Cardenas is another example.
I meant that there are 30 1B jobs. The 15th best 1B by EqA has about a .290 EqA. That’s Ryan Howard and Joey Votto. For Doolittle to be median, he could maybe get by with a .285 EqA or something. I think he has a ways to go to get there.
The 30% K-rate in A+ followed by the dramatic drop in performance, particularly in BB rate, are a flag for me. The high K-rate in A+ indicate that he might have trouble at higher levels, and lo and behold he did. It creates enough doubts to drop him.
The 15th best SS by EqA has about a .267 EqA. That’s Michael Young or Christian Guzman, who as it happens, are SFS (although not in 2008). Amazingly such players aren’t as common as their apparent crappiness would indicate. I’d love for the A’s to have either of those guys (although not Young’s contract).
As far as being the #21 prospect, I have 21 guys between #7 and #27 as B- or C+. It’s not a huge difference. The B- guys tend to be the ones with higher upside, but not all of them as the comments above showed. I can see a less upside-oriented voter putting Doolittle in the Top 10, and he did, indeed, make the Top 100. It’s reasonable, but it’s not my perspective.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 10, 2025 5:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Positional medians = NOT the correct way to adjust for position
Tom Tango would give you an earful for that if he saw it, and gave a crap.
SS and 1B hit better than 2B and DHs, respectively. Does that make them less defensively valuable? Nope.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 10, 2025 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
SS don't hit better than 2B
Average EqA:
1B - .283
2B - .264
SS - .255
The point of the heretical positional median talk is that decent hitting 1B are a lot more common than even somewhat crappy hitting and fielding SS. If you want to choose another, Tango-approved, path to that same conclusion go for it.
The difference between Heretical Positional Median for SS (.267) and SS Average (.255) is a lot greater than HPM for 1B (.290) and 1B Average .283. This indicates to me that it’s a lot easier to find an averagish 1B than an averagish SS.
However since this is purely a hypothetical discussion with no connection to the A’s prospect list, I’m not sure why we’re discussing it here.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 10, 2025 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Positional means are not the correct way to adjust either
You are right that decent hitting 1b are a lot more common than mediocre shortstops. The reason why that is is that those decent hitting 1b f***ing suck ass at defense. Dan Johnson, Val Pascucci, Casey Rogowski, Wes Bankston, Terry Tiffee— you seeing any gold gloves there?
It’s very easy to find a league-average hitter with zero defensive value. It’s not that easy to find a league-average hitter with league-average defense. That’s true regardless of where on the diamond he’s playing.
The Tango-approved path is to 1. adjust for a player’s position (so that Doolittle is penalized 20 runs relative to Frazier/Donald), 2. measure his defense in runs above and below positional average (which basically recoups those 20 runs, because Frazier and Donald are bad SS and Doolittle is a good 1B), and 3. measure his offense in runs above/below average. Then compare the final output to another player’s final output. In the case of those three, because the position+defense equation spits out roughly equal numbers for all of them, the question of who’s the best player reduces to a question of who’s the best hitter. And the question of whether Doolittle is better or worse than average as a player ends up reducing to whether he’s better or worse than average as a hitter, because his defensive value relative to average projects at about 0 runs (and that’s probably true regardless of what position he ends up playing). That’s really all there is to it.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 10, 2025 8:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You inspired me to do a bit of analysis, and I'm starting to see your point of view
If Doolittle is really 10 FRAA, as you think he might be, that puts him in Pujols/Mientkiewicz territory defensively. To be an average 1B overall, he’d have to only have something like a .275 - .280 EqA, similar to Connor Jackson or Todd Helton last year.
So for me there are two questions:
1) How likely is he to be a .275 - .280 EqA hitter; and
2) How much better than that can he be?
On the first question, it seems pretty well within his grasp unless you totally discount the Stockton performance. BB Pro think he had a .251 EqA last year, and can peak at .299 based on both Stockton and Midland.
On the second question, I’m a lot less sanguine, since he wasn’t a Top Top Prospect, doesn’t have massive power, and strikes out a lot.
I think I initially underestimated him since I’m not used to slick fielding, high K, low HR guys having massive value.
He should definitely move up, probably above Inoa at the bottom of the group with Cardenas and Cunningham.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 10, 2025 9:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
On the negative side though a 15% LD rate and 47% GB rate
don’t bode well for me. Hence the placing below Cunningham and Cardenas. He might belong in the group that includes Mazzaro and Donaldson. I’ll have to think about it.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 10, 2025 9:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
California League LD rates are wonky
They have some screwball definition of line drives down there that results in the league average being like 8%.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 11, 2025 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It did go to 23% in Midland
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 11, 2025 7:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Doolittle's #11 and a B- for now.
The LD% bothers me.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 10, 2025 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BTW the Tango-approved path you describe is fine for analyzing
players historically, but when dealing with projections I find it too susceptible to false precision to be useful. There are too many assumptions underlying each of the numbers to be meaningful for me.
I’d rather spend the time to examine these underlying assumptions in greater detail, partly by comparing them to current major leaguers.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 10, 2025 10:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why would Simmons and Doolittle's grade get lowered
by having good seasons?
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Dec 9, 2025 10:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like Doolittle, I didn't like Simmons as much as John and others coming into the season
Unlike Doolittle, I’m not sure what to make of Simmons’s season. I’m a big K-rate guy, and his 21.1% K-rate last year was nothing special. His control is excellent, but I’m not sure how well that translates into the bigs. I’ve never heard he had a plus pitch, rather that he has two pretty decent pitches.
He seems a bit like Yusmeiro Petit — less exteme in that his K and BB rates are worse but his scouting reports are better. He seems like Carlos Silva or Bob Tewksbury but less extreme with better K’s. He may have slightly worse control than those guys also when he gets to the majors, or he may not if he continues to improve his command.
At the end for me the lack of a plus pitch and the K-rate mediocrity give me doubts about his upside. And it appears that I value upside more than John and probably more than PT. I may be underestimating the value of a slightly below average major league starter though.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 9, 2025 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
By the way I've no objection to making everyone between Inoa and Simmons into a B
Brown and Donaldson seem a stretch, though.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 9, 2025 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Paramore
What are the realistic expectations for Paramore as a pro? Interested in hearing opinions of A’s fans here.
by wolviex18 on Dec 10, 2025 3:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say
Extreme upside: Jason Kendall
Hoping for: Kurt Suzuki
More likely: Brian Schneider
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 10, 2025 4:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's my current top 20
1 Trevor Cahill - Extreme groundball/strikeout pitcher. Reminds me of Brandon Webb.
2 Brett Anderson - Hard throwing (for a lefty) groundball pitcher who could be a number two or better.
3 Sean Doolittle - I like him a lot better then most. Hits for average and power supplemented with gold glove level defense and decent speed.
4 Chris Carter - He only has one tool—power—but boy does he have a lot of it.
5 Aaron Cunningham - A player with five above average (but not excellent) tools who has done nothing to make anyone think that he wont be an above average (but not excellent) player.
6 Gio Gonzalez - Like a harder throwing Barry Zito. Could be a mid-rotation starter or a number five starter. He had a rough cup of coffee, but people need to remember it took him about 6 months to acclimate to a new level the last couple times he was promoted.
7 Vince Mazzaro - Tore up the hard hitting Texas league, could be a good future number three starter.
8 Josh Donaldson - If his bat is real, it will play very well at catcher.
9 Adrian Cardenas - Once considered the best second base prospect in baseball by some, but where is the power?
10 James Simmons - Needs more then one good breaking pitch to keep himself out of the bullpen; tops out at Joe Blanton.
11 Michael Inoa - Unlimited upside—none of it proven.
12 Rashun Dixon - Amazing tools, now we just need to see them outside of Rookie ball.
13 Sam Demel - I think he’ll be a very good reliever.
14 Arnold Leon - He tore up AAA level ball at 18. Could be next years Cahill/Anderson.
15 Josh Outman - Mid to late rotation starter.
16 Andrew Carignan - Good reliever if he can control the walks.
17 Brett Hunter - Amazing stuff, and he tore up Hawaiian Winter ball, but a big injury risk.
18 Jemile Weeks - Tools play well for s second baseman.
19 Jered Lansford - Has pitched very well as a reliever. Will the A’s return him to the rotation, or will they groom him as a setup man.
20 Corey Brown - Tools to get him in the top ten if he just didn’t strike out every-other at bat.
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
by Threepwood XX on Dec 10, 2025 12:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Call me a homer
But here are the grades as I see them:
1. Trevor Cahill, RHP - A+. Only pitching for 3 years, will take another step forward the size of the one in 2008; will make him best pitching prospect since Dwight Gooden; pencil him in for 2 CYs and 200 wins
2. Brett Anderson, LHP - A+ Lefthanded version of Trevor Cahill. Upside between Jim Kaat and Steve Carlton
3. Chris Carter, 3B/1B - A Massive power, but probably won’t have a BA much above .320.
4. Aaron Cunningham, CF A- Seriously underrated, will probably break out like Ryan Ludwick
5. Gio Gonzalez, LHP - A- Great stuff, upside limited only by opportunity in deep A’s system
6. Adrian Cardenas, SS/2B A - Stolen from the Phillies, he will make them wish they’d dealt Utley instead
7. Sean Doolittle, 1B/RF B+ - Ceiling of Kevin Youkilis or Adrian Gonzalez. Median of Doug Mientkiwisc. Standard Deviation of a Jason Giambi. R-squared of Rusty Staub.
8. James Simmons, RHP - Tops out somewhere between Tim Hudson and Roger Clemens
9. Vin Mazzaro, RHP - B+ - somewhere between Brandon Webb and Derek Lowe
10. Josh Donaldson, C B+ I never heard of this guy, but I think he’s got All-Star potential
11. Michel Inoa, RHP B+ - Top import player already, will be Top 3 prospect in two years
12. Jemile Weeks, 2B A - like his brother, but with better speed, more defense, and better power
13. Henry Rodriguez, RHP - B+ - If he can cut his walks tenfold, he’s Goose Gossage
18. Corey Brown, CF - B+ 75% chance of being a perennial All-Star, 25% chance of being Randy Winn
19. Brett Hunter, RHP - B+ - Son of Catfish, he’ll break all his A’s records.
20. Sam Demel, RHP - B+ - The “Demel Tool”, we call him, and he’ll reduce MLB bats to sawdust in the very near future
21. Andrew Carignan, RHP A- - best A’s reliever in a deep system
22. Tyson Ross, RHP - Also never heard of him, but has great stuff. B / B+ prospect
23. Nino Leyja, SS -B+ Great pop and range, could be starting over Crosby right now
24. Matt Sulentic, OF (as of voting right now) B+ - I see him as a potential all-star, but after moving to C
Next up, I will grade the Rangers.
by siddfynch on Dec 10, 2025 1:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
win
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 10, 2025 2:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Too bad there aren't QOTM nominations here! I especially liked:
7. Sean Doolittle, 1B/RF B+ – Ceiling of Kevin Youkilis or Adrian Gonzalez. Median of Doug Mientkiwisc. Standard Deviation of a Jason Giambi. R-squared of Rusty Staub.
I actually believe this:
13. Henry Rodriguez, RHP – B+ – If he can cut his walks tenfold, he’s Goose Gossage
Can’t wait for the Rangers!
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 10, 2025 3:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That was
good for a chuckle sidd, but I’d like to hear what you actually think about this system. Your opinion is one I value around here.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Dec 10, 2025 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
too kind
but some of the newer guys in the system I am not so familiar with. Overall, the strength is obviously pitching, and I wonder if Beane hasn’t just decided to acquire whatever he thinks are the best assets he can get, position be damned, and figure out balance later. That’s great if you can do it, but in practice sometimes you have frictional loss if you get into a corner where you MUST have something (like a SS) and need to swing a deal to get one. Of course, he could probably get focus on positions this year and end up well-balanced heading into 2010?
Some comments on a few:
Cahill is someone I really liked as a sleeper coming into 2008, based on his “Buchholzian” history - relatively new to pitching yet clearly had found a way to quickly harness innate talent. I love guys like that - they make the switch, and, for whatever reasons, develop twice as fast as guys who started earlier. Jason Motte has recently done the same thing, and it’s now something I’m starting to look for in pitching prospects. Key is separating the Buchholz’s from the Van Benschotens, and I’m not sure what the decision point is there. I will say that I’d have more faith in someone in the Red Sox or A’s system than the Pirates, given the track records (though I will admit the Pirates are not the worst at developing arms).
Nevertheless, I wonder if Cahill hasn’t gotten a little overrated here after 2008? Is he really a top-4 pitcher in MiLB?
Brett Anderson is someone I’ve always been more skeptical on than most, though I will admit he’s rising in my eyes, for sure - he’s out of the Sowers class and into something better (young David Wells? Jimmy Key? I haven’t thought about this much lately). But again, I think there’s a little more exuberance here than I’d be willing to go. I can buy “command” as it’s own tool, but think it’s a lot riskier to count on than, say, a crescent moon slider or 98 mph heat. I buy it more at higher levels, obviously, and Anderson is close to making me a convert. I swung a trade for him this offseason, so I’m not totally negative on him.
I think a lot of people are unaware of how exactly terrific FDLS’s season was in 2007. I mean, it was REALLY good on paper, and his socuting reports backed it up. As conservative as I like to be, he’s a lot more Buchholz than Tyler Clippard, for sure. How much of that does the injury change? I don’t know, but if he is as a good as new (big if, I know), don’t be surprised if he’s the best pitcher on this list.
I find the Mazzaro love on this board pretty funny. Is there a big difference between he and Mitchell Boggs? I mean, really…..doesn’t he have to take a pretty good leap forward before he can be a solid #4? Is that really Top 100 here, or a Grade B?
Simmons I like OK, wish he were in the Cards organization. Would he be better off in the NL anyway?
Cardenas was a nice pickup from PHI…was surprised to see how skeptical some were in the Community discussion, but I think he could be a pretty solid hitter at 2B in a Todd Walker kind of way. Could he even be a Carlos Baerga and have a really high peak until he has to move off the position?
Gio Gonzalez is a little enigmatic to me, and I have always been kind of “buyer beware” on him. His hit rates and K rates should really excite me, and he’s still way young, so could easily turnn the corner on the walk rates - yet, I’m still a little reserved on him. I do think his prospects brightened when he went to the Oakland system - I think those guys will know how to make the tweaks he needs to turn the corner developmentally.
The rest of the guys I really haven’t tracked very much. I do think there’s some lack of appreciation for how much Cal league numbers have caused us to overestimate power potential in prior prospects (I’m talking about the Sean Doolittle conversations)…fool me once…..
by siddfynch on Dec 10, 2025 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with
a lot of what you say here. Cahill was a guy I took a flyer on in 2007 in the 20th round of a MiLB draft in my 17 team dynasty league. I feel awfully good about that one. For the reasons you mention, I do think he’s made himself into a top 4 or 5 pitcher in the minors. He hasn’t been at this long, but has been hugely successful. I don’t know how much more he will improve, but I’d figure that there is still a good bit of room for improvement because of the short time’s been a pitcher.
Anderson is another personal favorite, from his Arizona days. I grabbed him in the 9th round of the aforementioned draft. I tend to think he’s kind of what you see is what you get, but the fact that he bumped up the velocity into the low 90’s makes him a different animal than at the beginning of the year. I pegged him as #3 with #2 as his best possible outcome prior to this year, now I think he could potentially be an ace. He’s right with Cahill in my mind.
I put FDLS at #9 and a B-, which I think is being a little optimistic, but he was great in 2007, so all we really need to see is him return from TJ fine and he moves way up. I agree, he has the potential to be the best guy on here. Agree with Mazzaro too, I’m just not sold on the guy yet. Give me another good year like that and I’ll buy in. Simmons would probably be more successful in the NL, but I think that generally speaking that works for most pitchers. Agreed on Cardenas, Gio, and Doolittle too.
Thanks for the reply, and I can’t wait to see what grade you have to invent for Derek Holland!
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Dec 10, 2025 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No offense, but your projections are so optimistic that you loose credibility.
Corey Brown with a 75% to 25% chance of becoming an allstar? Those numbers should be switched at a minimum. If you need proof just look at Javy Herrera and Richie Robnette, two other prospects with above average tools but huge strike out issues.
Henry Rodriguez is the same. The guys is only a B+ prospect if he can actually put the ball in the strike zone, which he has NEVER shown the ability to in two years of play time. Before we call him the next Goose Gossage, maybe we need to actually see him succeed at a level where the hitters know how to take a walk.
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
by Threepwood XX on Dec 10, 2025 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Joke
I think he was joking, or rather mocking.
by DeJay on Dec 10, 2025 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll give you Corey Brown and MAYBE Henry Rodriguez
but are we pretty much in agreement about the rest?
by siddfynch on Dec 10, 2025 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My List and Grades
Ok I’m an A’s fan as well so take these grades as you will, but this is one of the deepest farm systems in baseball so I don’t think we are going to be seeing any prospects lower than C+ on the list.
1. RHP Trevor Cahill - A
2. LHP Brett Anderson - A
3. LHP Gio Gonzalez - B+ (was dominant at AAA after settling down - I don’t think 7 bad MLB starts changes things too much)
4. 2B/SS Adrian Cardenas - B+ (Performed very well age related. Lack of power is concerning but scouts seem to love his tools - power and position concerns could drop him to a B)
5. 1B/3B Chris Carter - B+ (John gave him an “agressive” B+ grade last year. Hit 40 hr last year with good strike zone judgement - can’t see him as anything below a B)
6. OF Aaron Cunningham B+ (Has done nothing but hit at every single level and seems to be finally getting the recognition he deserves)
7. RHP James Simmons - B
8. RHP Michel Inoa - B
9. 1B/OF Sean Doolittle - B
10. RHP Vin Mazzaro - B
11. RHP Henry Rodriguez - B
12. CF Corey Brown - B (Could be a B- but his power, speed, patience and defence are all plus tools - strikeouts and rawness are a worry though)
13. 2B Jemile Weeks - B-
14. RHP Brett Hunter - B- (Agressive grade due to injury and delivery concerns, but his talent sounds legit - hopefully he can stick as a SP)
15. C Josh Donaldson - B-
16. LHP Josh Outman - B-
17. RHP Andrew Carignan - B-
18. RHP Sam Demel - B-
19. RHP Arnold Leon - C+ (Could be a big sleeper in the system - hopefully the A’s will put him as a starter next season)
20. RHP Fautino De Los Santos - C+ (Would have been nearer the top of the list on talent alone but drops a grade due to TJ surgery
21. RHP Rashun Dixon - C+
Other C+ prospects - RHP Andrew Bailey, RHP Craig Italiano, OF Matt Sulentic, RHP Tyson Ross, RHP Jared Lansford. I also like Travis Banwart and Daniel Thomas as sleepers.
by DeJay on Dec 10, 2025 10:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Whoops
Cahill and Anderson should be A minus
by DeJay on Dec 10, 2025 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He gets a C+ as a pitcher
‘cause he’s that good. ;-)
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 10, 2025 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My list
1. Brett Anderson, A-
2. Trevor Cahill
3. Adrian Cardenas, B+
4. Chris Carter
5. Michel Inoa
6. Gio Gonzalez, B
7. Aaron Cuninngham
8. James Simmons
9. Vince Mazzaro
10. Josh Donaldson, B-
11. Jemile Weeks
12. Fautino de los Santos
13. Sean Doolittle, C+
14. Josh Outman
15. Henry Rodriguez
16. Rashun Dixon
17. Brett Hunter
18. Corey Brown
19. Arnold Leon, C
20. Matt Sulentic
by AthertonA on Dec 10, 2025 2:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ross and Italiano are no better than a C? All the relievers fall out of C+?
You seem to be a tougher grader than John.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 10, 2025 5:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Relievers
Both Demel and Carignan we C+ last year, and both had dominant seasons showing off potentially dominant stuff. Even with the high walk ratios I can’t imagine that their grade will be lowered.
by DeJay on Dec 11, 2025 5:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think either of them were dominant
They both walked too many guys—Carignan in particular.
And I just don’t think relievers in the low minors are good bets. The vast majority of major league relievers had good enough stuff to survive as starters through the low minors.
by AthertonA on Dec 11, 2025 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure. No argument there. It's just that the grading scale seems tougher than the one
John used last year.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 11, 2025 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'm not too versed in the letter grades
I kind of just threw them onto my rankings. In retrospect, I guess I would move the C+ down to Outman and remove the C.
by AthertonA on Dec 11, 2025 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A's rankings
I’m really interested to see how Sickles does the A’s. Oakland has a bunch of guys who have vast differences of opinion (ceiling/floor/median) due to injuries, enigmatic performances, tools out the wazzoo with little refinement or small small sample size. Just look at it.
DLS: Injuries
Hunter: Injuries/sample size
Inoa: What do you do with a 16-year old with tools and projection but no track record?
Donaldson: Good/bad/good performance—which is he?
Sulentic: Good/bad/good performance—which is he?
Mazzaro: headed for mopup duty at best until he had an AMAZING 2008 in AA as a 21-year old. Is that who he is now? Or was that an anomaly? Is he somewhere in between?
Gio: Enigma (need I say more?)
Carter: Super-star power/super-big Ks
Doolittle: Great in Cal league/bad in Midwest
Ross: Injuries
H-Rod: Amazing fastball—where is it going?
There is no precedence for a guy like Inoa. Do you give him a high grade based on scouting reports? Do you give him a low grade because he has no performance record? DLS is similar in that you have to address what you do with his performance and his injury. He was absolutely amazing in 2007 and then had TJ surgery. What to do, what to do? I don’t envy Sickels, because either way he will have a lot of angry complaints. (just look at the voting for Inoa in the community top 100)
by nobodyinparticular on Dec 10, 2025 7:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Why do so many people rank Cahill above Anderson?
Never, Never, NEVER give up
by hero66 on Dec 10, 2025 8:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think it's based on perceived upside
The idea is that Cahill has the great sinking fastball, and a knuckle curve to get strike outs giving him two pitches better than what Anderson throws. Also, I think people look at Cahill’s success with slightly mediocre BB rate and see it as room for improvement so he could get even better, while Anderson is perceived as being pretty fully developed with out much growth.
I don’t know how accurate this is but I think there is a definite perception that Cahill has more potential left in him while Anderson is pretty maxed out.
by DiegoAsFan on Dec 10, 2025 9:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cahill also had slightly higher K-rates and GB rates
His rib cage injury has me thinking the dreaded “oblique” word though.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 10, 2025 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope Cahill isn’t visited by the ghost of Tim Hudson’s obliques…
by chri5 on Dec 11, 2025 12:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably because of Anderson's thumb injury in Stockton
that hurt his A+ numbers a bit (even if it was only a couple starts).
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Dec 10, 2025 11:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Baseball America's Top 14
1. Brett Anderson, lhp
2. Trevor Cahill, rhp
3. Michael Inoa, rhp
4. Aaron Cunningham, of
5. Adrian Cardenas, 2b/ss
6. Chris Carter, 1b/3b/of
7. Gio Gonzalez, lhp
8. Vin Mazzaro, rhp
9. Jemile Weeks, 2b
10. James Simmons, rhp
11. Josh Donaldson, c
12. Sean Doolittle, 1b
13. Corey Brown, cf
14. Henry Rodriguez, rp
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Dec 11, 2025 3:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
So Inoa and Weeks are the only substantial differences from AN
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 11, 2025 3:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Doolittle
Doolittle was also rated alot higher by AN, although I thought Badler said that he would rank 11th on BA’s list. BA also seems to like Brown a little more.
by DeJay on Dec 11, 2025 5:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All of those are logical departures
The community list favors established production, and BA favors tools.
The only thing that surprises me is that Dixon didn’t make the top 14, but I guess it’s hard to figure out who to cut.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 11, 2025 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs







