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Discussion Question: High School Pitching

More photos » Tony Gutierrez - AP

Kansas City Royals starting pitcher Zack Greinke, former first round pick out of high school. (AP Photo/Tony Gutierrez)

I am still sick. Yes, I have been sick for 10 days, but we have to keep things moving here, so here is a discussion question for you.

True or False: due to improvements in scouting, coaching, and player analysis, it is less risky to draft high school pitching now than it was 20 years ago.

Poll
Is high school pitching less risky than it used to be?

  533 votes | Results

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No

If only because of the increase in cost to sign those same players. A Shelby Miller or a Tyler Matzek may be a more reliable bet than high school pitchers drafted at the same spots 20 years ago, but they’re costing like 8 times as much.

by ajake57 on May 3, 2025 4:18 PM EDT reply actions

Inflation? Every draft pick is costing more than 20 years ago.

by metafour on May 3, 2025 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions

That's true

But it’s not as simple as that. High School player’s have far more leverage and use that to their advantage today more now than ever.

In 1990 the top High School pitcher taken was Kurt Miller at #5 by the Bucs, who signed for $230,000. Donovan Osborne, the top Collegiate pitcher signed for $250,000 at #13 (Alex Fernandez was the top pitcher taken, of course, but he was out of a Juco and signed for $350,000). Todd Van Poppel signed for $500,000 at pick #14, also out of high school.

Last year, obviously we all know about Strasburg and his bonus. I think we can all agree that’s a pretty glaring statistical outlier though. For the sake of this debate, I will not include him.

Matt Hobgood was the first HS pitcher taken at #5, and signed for $2.422 mil, Wheeler at #6 for $3.3 mil, Turner #9 signed for $4.7 mil, Matzek #11 for $3.9 mil, and Miller at #19 for $2.875 mil.

The only collegiate pitchers to sign for over $2 million were Minor, $2.42, and Leake, $2.27, who were drafted #8 and #9 respectively.

So over the last 20 years we’ve seen about a 1000% increase in the cost of bonuses for these players while maintaining a 50% difference in cost between HS and Collegiate pitchers.

Are you more likely to see a stud pitcher out of high school from last year’s class than you are to get guys like Miller or Van Poppel (who was at least servicable)? Absolutely. But that’s not the entire question. There is inherent risk associated with the added cost of these players. If a high school pitcher costs me twice as much as a collegiate pitcher, he should have twice the potential. And out of the draft class from last year, I don’t see any high school pitchers that have twice the potential of a Mike Leake or a Mike Minor.

by ajake57 on May 3, 2025 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm just going to go ahead and...

+1 this.

There’s just so much more information about pitching and the body than there was 20 years ago that teams should be able to get a decent read on a HS guy. I mean when you’re getting down to it you’re looking for an an athlete with pitching skills. Unless the HS kid is injured already then teams are really just getting a body primed to be trained to be a ML pitcher.

by SenorGato on May 3, 2025 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Still risky

I think there’s still a lot of risk involved with high school kids, because they’re just that, kids. A lot of there ability is based on what they’ll be like once they reach adulthood.
However when you look at some of the best pitchers in the game right now, a lot of them have come out of high school or were international free agent signings at very young ages.
Greinke, Halladay, Johan Santana, Chris Carpenter, Adam Wainwright, Josh Johnson, etc.

by daman316 on May 3, 2025 5:58 PM EDT reply actions

I think so

Although I don’t have anything to really back me up on that. I definitely wouldn’t be afraid to take a HS starting pitcher in the first round and I completely disagree with the “safe” college pitcher route. Those guys seem to get injured just as often as High Schoolers.

by jar75 on May 3, 2025 7:05 PM EDT reply actions

I think it depends on how much you trust your developers

For the Dodgers, they take a HS pitcher in the 1st round almost religiously. They do this because they have more trust in their coaches than a college coach. If you dont trust your coaches to develop pitchers, then Id stay away from the HS pitchers. Some of the best young guns were signed as IFAs or HS pitchers at the HS age. I dont think there is any more risk, except that maybe you have a pitcher for longer in the organization and therefore there is more time for an injury…

by lakersdodgersyankees4life on May 3, 2025 7:40 PM EDT reply actions

every great pitcher was a high school pitcher

but not every great pitcher was a college pitcher

by Longhorn on May 3, 2025 11:37 PM EDT reply actions

....

say whaaaa?

Adoptive parent of Kyle Nicholson

by gore51 on May 4, 2025 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions

Pedro Martinez says hi

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on May 4, 2025 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions

It's Not Scouting, Coaching, or Analysis

It’s simply that teams have learned to keep them healthy.

I’ve got a study (which I really should post here) of pitchers ranked 1-10 in BA’s Top 100 (or 11-15 who went to MLB next year) that’s mind-boggling. Twenty+ years ago, essentially every such prospect suffered a major injury except Pedro Martinez, who was babied in his critical years. The injury rate has declined steadily since then.

by emvan on May 4, 2025 4:18 AM EDT reply actions

If you approach the question from a decision-making standpoint then I would say that, yes, there is much less risk today in drafting high school pitchers than 20 years ago. The sheer volume and complexity of information teams have at their disposal (as well as two more decade’s worth of historical data) cannot compare to where baseball was in the 1990s.

From a developmental standpoint all the risks associated with a HS pitcher that were prevalent 20 years ago (injury, attrition, flameout, etc.) are still prevalent today. Attrition is natural and unavoidable; no matter how well you prepare and develop all your players, there’s no way you’re going to get a 100% conversion rate. Injury risk and early flameout are still a major issue but, with the advancements in modern exercise, nutrition, and medical procedures, teams are losing far fewer players to career-ending injuries nowadays.

by ThomasG on May 4, 2025 9:54 AM EDT reply actions

Not necessarily less risky on an individual basis

But there are a few things that make it less risky on a macro basis:

a) Teams are generally more loathe to pick a HS pitcher these days, with a few teams avoiding them altogether near the top of the draft, which means that a lot of the fringier ones don’t get picked

b) Surgery is MUCH better. Even if a kid gets his arm injured, it’s much more likely he’ll be able to come back from it.

c) If you look at the elite pitchers over the past 20 years or so, the overall value from HS pitchers has tended to be greater than those from college pitchers.

d) As already mentioned, the information is just much better now.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on May 4, 2025 11:28 AM EDT reply actions

I think it is more risky

kids today usually do not have street smarts, they are shuttled from one game/practice to another, one season to the next and never have free time. Thus they do not know how to use free time. Many as soon as they get out an daway from Mom and dad can’t handle it, especially with $$$.

by Rickfansince76 on May 4, 2025 3:15 PM EDT reply actions

I think it's less risky, mainly 'cause teams tend to be smarter

Velocity used to be everything for some teams.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on May 4, 2025 4:30 PM EDT reply actions


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