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BA EL TOP 20

1. Domonic Brown, of, Reading Phillies
2. Zach Brittton, lhp, Bowie Baysox (Orioles)
3. Kyle Drabek, rhp, New Hampshire Fisher Cats (Blue Jays)
4. Brandon Belt, Richmond Flying Squirrels (Giants)
5. Andrew Brackman, Trenton Thunder (Yankees)
6. Lonnie Chisenhall, 3b, Akron Aeros (Indians)
7. Kyle Gibson, rhp, New Britain Rock Cats (Twins)
8. Alex White, rhp, Akron Aeros (Indians)
9. Jason Kipnis, 2b, Akron Aeros (Indians)
10. Casey Kelly, rhp, Portland Sea Dogs (Red Sox)
11. Brandon Laird, 3b, Trenton Thunder (Yankees)
12. Danny Espinosa, ss, Harrisburg Senators (Nationals)
13. Andy Oliver, Erie SeaWolves (Tigers)
14. Bryan Morris, rhp, Altoona Curve (Pirates)
15. Rudy Owens, lhp, Altoona Curve (Pirates)
16. Hector Noesi, rhp, Trenton Thunder (Yankees)
17. Jose Iglesias, ss, Portland Sea Dogs (Red Sox)
18. Anthony Rizzo, 1b, Portland Sea Dogs (Red Sox)
19. Kirk Nieuwenhuis, of, Binghamton Mets
20. Austin Romine, c, Trenton Thunder (Yankees)


http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/league-top-20-prospects/2010/2610772.html

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Comments

Display:

Kyle Gibson behind Andrew Brackman

really?

-1 and only member of the Nick Weglarz fan club!

by Jgaztambide on Oct 8, 2025 11:37 AM EDT reply actions  

More worried at the complete absence of Zach Stewart from that list

He’s been comparable to Drabek all season yet there’s such a huge difference in their reviews outside of the Jays organisation.

by TtD on Oct 8, 2025 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Granted it was only one start but Keith Law loved what he saw from Stewart.

by The_Bunk on Oct 8, 2025 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Said in his chat yesterday

he doesn’t seem much difference in ceiling between Stewart and Drabek. And he’s very high on Drabek.

http://bullpenbanter.com

by gatling on Oct 8, 2025 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Typo

doesn’t see much difference in ceiling

http://bullpenbanter.com

by gatling on Oct 8, 2025 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that's some pretty strong praise

I think BA is underrating Stewart in this case. Do they still think that he’s destined for the bullpen?

Baseball is my preferred sport. It should be yours, too.
I'm an editor for Beyond the Box Score, an SB Nation blog.

by Satchel Price on Oct 8, 2025 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep

I posted a quote from the chat further down here.

http://bullpenbanter.com

by gatling on Oct 8, 2025 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I saw that.

I suppose that’s not totally unreasonable, but I think he’s done enough as a starter to warrant a top-20 selection.

Baseball is my preferred sport. It should be yours, too.
I'm an editor for Beyond the Box Score, an SB Nation blog.

by Satchel Price on Oct 8, 2025 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I completely agree

I’d have him fairly high on this list to be honest.

http://bullpenbanter.com

by gatling on Oct 8, 2025 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Considering Stewart was the Jays #1

in last year’s Top 30, I’d say it’s odd that he was left off. I know the disconnect between these lists and org lists can be distinct, so I’m interested to see where he falls this year.

by blackoutyears on Oct 14, 2025 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Stewart’s complete absence makes no sense to me.

by deezle on Oct 8, 2025 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Apparently the explanation was that scouts saw him as a reliever. My belief is that that scouting report is likely from the first half of the season when Stewart’s mechanics were off. His performance improved in every aspect after they fixed his delivery, and Keith Law stated that in his last start of the season (in which he dominated) that both he and a scout there were surprised by how his changeup looked much better than previously noted.

by metafour on Oct 8, 2025 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep

Stewart’s numbers were night and day after the mechanical adjustment. I’m betting you’re right, the scouts Manuel talked to didn’t see enough of Stewart later in the year.

http://bullpenbanter.com

by gatling on Oct 8, 2025 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which puts into perspective the fact that you have to be wary anytime BA says “scouts we talked to” or something similar. They never note when the scouting opinion came from or how many times the player was evaluated by said scout(s), and for a starting pitcher its obviously not going to be very much as there isn’t a single scout that saw every one of Stewart’s starts this season.

BA also said at one point this year that scouts they talked to had Drabek’s velocity at 90-91mph. He came up at the end of the season and was throwing up to 94/95mph into the 4th inning in all three starts. It makes me seriously question whether these scouts were seeing Drabek’s cutter (which he was throwing a lot more this season) and noting it as his “fastball”.

by metafour on Oct 8, 2025 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could be

In the Drabek writeup it says his velocity was down early in the year but back up in August. It’s possible that a scout saw him once and his velocity was down that day. That happens to plenty of pitchers. It could also be that his velocity was down for a few months early, that happens too. It’s hard to say either way, but I think one thing we all need to keep in mind is a single scouting report shouldn’t be the end all, be all determination of a player.

http://bullpenbanter.com

by gatling on Oct 8, 2025 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

No doubt...we also shouldn't completely disregard older, lesser reports either

In the case of Stewart, there still has to be some worry that he’ll lose his effective mechanics again. With Drabek you have to consider that his velocity might fall back to 90-91 in the future. To use another example, there is still a question if Minor can hold the velocity he showed most of this season through all of next year. Pitchers are so volatile that we always have to consider when they take a step forward, a few months down the road they could give it all back, and maybe even more.

by nixa37 on Oct 8, 2025 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kipnis...

behind Chisenhall and White for the Indians? I don’t think the Indians look at it that way.

"God, I'm from Cleveland. When is it going to be our time?"

by BStal11 on Oct 8, 2025 11:45 AM EDT reply actions  

Definitely behind Chisenhall for me

I think Chisenhall is going to be an excellent third baseman.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 8, 2025 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not surprised he's behind Chis

but White being that high surprised me.

http://bullpenbanter.com

by gatling on Oct 8, 2025 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do Indians fans have Kipnis ahead of Chisenhall?

I thought Chis was unanimously the better overall prospect.

by deezle on Oct 8, 2025 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not an Indians fan...

but I have Kipnis ahead. I like Chis and all, but I think Kipnis is going to be a future star at second.

ETHAN MARTIN!!!!

by joegonzo on Oct 8, 2025 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chisenhall over Kipnis too

though, I think the gap closed this year. Chisenhall had some shoulder issues earlier in the year, and then turned it on down the stretch. I see Chisenhall in the 25-30 range for my top 100, and Kipnis closer to 40-50.

by BryceHarper on Oct 8, 2025 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Big Indians fan

I have Chis,Kipnis,White right now. All 3 are very close for me right now. Little bit of a drop off from there (No one else being considered at #1). I read a lot of Indians message board posts at a couple of different sites and there has been a couple of arguments for Kipnis and White but the majority are for Chis. I have seen these 3 guys play at least 10 times this year and will miss them next year. It was a pleasure.

by Pup Dog on Oct 8, 2025 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

comparison/upside

Haven’t had a chance to see them play. Any names that Kipnis and Chisenhall remind you of?

by BryceHarper on Oct 8, 2025 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Awful

I am awful with comparisons. Last time I tried a comp on here it got some serious flack for it. When I see Kipnis bat he reminds me of Pedroia. He has a solid bat that projects well to the big leagues. He has decent power but the glove is what lacks with him. When I talked to him this summer he said he is feeling a lot more comfortable at 2B (was a CF in college) and is confident with routine grounders. The sharply hit balls are the ones he is having some trouble with. I think he will be an above average 2B in the future just going to need some time to adjust to the new position.
As far as Chis I dont really have a good comp. He is not a huge power guy right now. Hits some solid line drives that I could see developing into HR power as he fills out in the coming years. I read a lot of stuff on the net talking about his defense being a concern. I must just see all his good defensive games I guess. The glove looks solid. I have seen shots down the 3B line that he backhands and makes a good throw. I have seen diving stops to his glove side. Now he is not a gold glover at 3B in the future, but he will be an above average defensive 3B.

by Pup Dog on Oct 9, 2025 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

thanks for the insight Pup

really hoping Chis. can develop into a 25hr .290-.300 avg. type.

by BryceHarper on Oct 9, 2025 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chis

I would be tickled if he turned into this. Personally I can see him developing into the 25HR guy. I think he will hit for a little less avg. My guess is around .280.

by Pup Dog on Oct 9, 2025 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pedro/Kip

for what its worth:
As an ASU season ticket holder I basically got to see Pedro and Kip play 100+ times in person. Here’s how I’d compare the two: Kipnis has more natural power, but then, no one at ASU would predict Pedro would develop into a 15-20 HR guy in the Bigs. Plate discipline and average I would say is a tossup. Both hitter had .380-.400 ave in college and showed very good patience. Neither are burners but both have slightly above ave speed on the bases, I’d give a slight edge to Pedro though. defensively is where Pedro would dominate over Kip. Pedro was about as good as a defender as I’ve seen in college. quick and soft hands, great footwork and positioning, always alert. About the only thing Pedro lacks is arm strength. Kip will obviously have to prove himself as an offensive 2b and has a ways to go before he can be compared to Pedro with the glove.

In all, I would say that if Pedro is a 310/370/450 guy with 15hr and 15sb a year, then I don’t see what Kip won’t be a .290/350/450 guy with 15-20hr and 10-15sb

by ScottAZ on Oct 9, 2025 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kipnis

I have not seen Pedro so I cannot comment on him. Kipnis on the other hand I have. Everything you are saying I would confirm. As far as your line on him in the future that is pretty much what I am expecting as well.

by Pup Dog on Oct 9, 2025 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brandon Belt

. . . oh to be a Flying Squirrel!

The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. It reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.

by Savoy on Oct 8, 2025 11:48 AM EDT reply actions  

Manuel in the chat

Said he has a chance to be a better version of James Loney. That’s exactly the guy that comes to mind when I think of Brandon Belt (I’m just not sure he’ll be a better version).

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 8, 2025 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hope it's a better version of Loney

because normal James Loney is not a very valuable player.

by deezle on Oct 8, 2025 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just wondering...

exactly why he is a better Loney?

ETHAN MARTIN!!!!

by joegonzo on Oct 8, 2025 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

[…]he can hit and probably will wind up cranking 40 doubles a year. He’s got a chance to be at least as good as James Loney and should have more of an impact bat than Loney, 15-20 HR rather than 10-15, but he’s that kind of smooth hitter, geared more for average than for power. He’s also more athletic than Loney, runs better, and has a chance to play in the OF.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 8, 2025 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

So he is...

a James Loney with more power, he’s more athletic, runs better, and has a chance to play the OF? Why compare him to Loney at all if he is that kind of player. Might as well call him someone like Kevin Youkilis. I doubt he ends up as a player that is THAT good.

ETHAN MARTIN!!!!

by joegonzo on Oct 8, 2025 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

He doesn't specify the degree

Except for the power. I’m guessing that the ways Manuel thinks he’ll be better than Loney will be slight.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 8, 2025 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Youkilis didn’t show much power until his late 20s

by TimLaser and MattyC on Oct 8, 2025 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Casey Kelly

Thoughts on Kelly? It looks as if he had a rough year but seems to still be very highly thought of.

The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. It reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.

by Savoy on Oct 8, 2025 11:50 AM EDT reply actions  

I saw kelly pitch a few times

And he has looked great every time I’ve seen him

Bring in Bard.
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by bestbostonsports on Oct 8, 2025 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

He had some bad starts early

a few 6 inning 8 run games. That kind of inflated the ERA for the season.
Whatever the results, the kid has great stuff. Terrific location, great fastball, and a very impressive changeup. Only pitch that could use a little work is his curveball

Bring in Bard.
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
Join the Lacrosse community The Lacrosse Blog

by bestbostonsports on Oct 8, 2025 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha your'e welcome

Bring in Bard.
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
Join the Lacrosse community The Lacrosse Blog

by bestbostonsports on Oct 8, 2025 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh

Bring in Bard.
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
Join the Lacrosse community The Lacrosse Blog

by bestbostonsports on Oct 8, 2025 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

just FYI, his ERA by month

April: 3.38 (10 2/3 IP)
May: 6.08 (26 2/3 IP)
June: 4.58 (19 2/3 IP)
July: 6.03 (31 1/3 IP)
August: 4.05 (6 2/3 IP)

by mrkupe on Oct 8, 2025 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

May & July

So the two months he threw the most innings are also the two months where his ERA was over 6? Yuck.

The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. It reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.

by Savoy on Oct 8, 2025 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

KG said scouting reports still just as good. Velocity up. People overreact around here to surface stats. His stock is steady at worst, and likely up for some.

Bullpen Banter
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by alskor on Oct 8, 2025 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep

I think too many people took “polished HS arm” too far and assumed he’d dominate AA. When he didn’t, people decided he must have a low ceiling and was overrated. While Kelly was polished for a HS arm he had limited pro experience so it’s not surprising to me that he struggled in AA this year. His stock isn’t really down at all for me. His velocity rose a bit, his secondary stuff is still very, very good. He just needs to improve his fastball command.

http://bullpenbanter.com

by gatling on Oct 8, 2025 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

zack greinke

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Oct 8, 2025 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is Grienke a fair comp?

Zach had 145IP in MLB before he turned 21…….Kelly has 189 IP total. Yes I know about the Sox taking time with kelly becoming a full time pitcher, but it seems kelly is far behind Grienke at the same age

by Rajah358 on Oct 8, 2025 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

i don't think it was really a comp

but more of a rebuttal that, though rare, a pitcher can come out of high school pretty polished.

R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9

by doublestix on Oct 8, 2025 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hear ya

I was kind of defending Kelly

by Rajah358 on Oct 8, 2025 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not really...

it’s just a different kind of HS arm and one that we rarely see.

ETHAN MARTIN!!!!

by joegonzo on Oct 8, 2025 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rizzo a bit low on that list

I have him ahead of Iglesias, if nothing else because of missed time.

Bring in Bard.
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
Join the Lacrosse community The Lacrosse Blog

by bestbostonsports on Oct 8, 2025 11:55 AM EDT reply actions  

Ryan Kalish

I believe he qualifies (183 PA in AA), and I have a hard time believing he isn’t a top 10 guy in this league.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 8, 2025 12:00 PM EDT reply actions  

I was surprised at that too.

I’m a big Kirk Nieuwenhuis fan, and I think he’s bigger and with a bit better power ceiling, hits even more extra base hits. I think similar defense. But, Kalish is 6 months younger, and clearly ahead on the development curve, with a big advantage in plate discipline that right now more than offsets any small difference in power. Kalish is ready now; really Kalish is close to what I would hope Kirk might be in another year.

But maybe he’s no longer considered a prospect? He does have over 150 PA; but does that mean he gets left off the league lists?

by acerimusdux on Oct 8, 2025 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

plate discipline

Yeah, kalish does have a big advantage there.

by wobatus on Oct 8, 2025 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

BA's requirements state

You have to spend a third of the season in the league and Kalish didn’t do that.

Brandon Jacobs of Lowell > Brandon Jacobs of NYG

by Lesterfan on Oct 8, 2025 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good Point

Yeah, he had enough PA, but he was only there 41 games, and spent 90 games between AAA and MLB.

by acerimusdux on Oct 8, 2025 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought they used the PAs as a proxy for 1/3 of the season

Brandon Belt only played 46 games in the EL.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 8, 2025 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes, but

Isn’t the minor league season ~130 games? 41 games would not be a third. 46, on the other hand, would be.

by mrkupe on Oct 8, 2025 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then Adeiny Hechavarria shouldn't have been eligible for the FSL list

He played 41 games at Dunedin. Dunedin played 139 games this season. I think eligibility is PA based, rather than GP based.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 8, 2025 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

hech

Was he injured and on the Dunedin roster for more than 41 games?

by mrkupe on Oct 8, 2025 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't remember any injury

But I very easily could be wrong. I know Kalish had an early season injury, but I’m not sure if that was before or after he was promoted to AAA.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 8, 2025 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Most surprising list so far to me. Kalish???? Brackman at 5 is… ambitious. To a slightly lesser extent, White at 8 as well; scouting report even implies Manuel views him as a reliever, yet still ranked there? Conversely, would have thought Iglesias would be closer to 10 given the surprisingly competent bat he flashed to go with the glove; thought Rizzo might be a touch higher as well. Weird list

by goldenblack on Oct 8, 2025 12:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Romine

I could see him making this list if he were a plus defensive catcher but his work behind the plate seems to be considered largely average.

by The_Bunk on Oct 8, 2025 12:08 PM EDT reply actions  

I realize he did, i’m expressing my confusion regarding how he gets on to this list.

by The_Bunk on Oct 8, 2025 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well...

Unlike Montero he can stay at the plate long term while not having black hole production. Yes he stopped existing in the second half of the year but it’s his first full year of catching. He was a wrecking ball in the first half of the season playing in a pitcher’s ballpark. Even Montero’s numbers had a noticeable split from Trenton’s ballpark and others. He’s still got a high ceiling with a decent probability of sticking due to the overall suckiness of catchers. He’s a top 100 prospect for a reason.

by Lolmoarpl0x on Oct 8, 2025 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Manuel's lists

I remember a couple of years ago he put Nick Blackburn, Wilson Ramos & Joe Benson at the top of the Twins’ prospects list when no one else was pimping those three guys, way ahead of the curve. Other BA writers (not counting Callis), when there’s deviation from my expectations, I often attribute sloppiness or density of thought, but w/ Manuel & Callis, I assume that they know something that the conventional wisdom doesn’t.

by gogotabata on Oct 8, 2025 12:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Generally agree about Manuel, but this list kinda baffles me. The White write-up, for instance, or end of it anyway, seems to conflict with his placement. Some notable exclusions as well; can buy preference and/or scout input going against a Thomas Neal or Jared Goedart, but I’m especially interested to hear the rationale on no Kalish (unless I’m way off on the eligibility requirements).

by goldenblack on Oct 8, 2025 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Love the aggressive Belt ranking

Danny Espinosa maybe should be a tad bit higher.

http://www.crawfishboxes.com

by OremLK on Oct 8, 2025 12:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed

http://bullpenbanter.com

by gatling on Oct 8, 2025 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Strange scouting report on Espinoza:

“Though Espinosa played exclusively shortstop at Double-A, scouts and managers agree he fits better at second base, where he mostly played in the majors. His infield actions aren’t quite good enough for a big league [sic] shortstop, but he has a chance to be a plus defender with a strong arm at second.”

Doesn’t jive with any of the cocmments that I’d seen during the season - if anything, they were saying that he repeated actions better than Desmond, had plus range and a plus arm.

Have some people been watching the major leagues on TV and “written” a scouting report to fit, now that he plays 2B?

by Kirkie on Oct 8, 2025 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Danny

After watching Danny play at AA, until his promotion to AAA, I have to agree with that scouting report. Having watched both Ian and Danny, I’d say Ian’s range is better at short. Ian’s arm is better than Danny’s too. IMO Danny could be a really at 2nd and back up at SS at the MLB level.

by Senatorsfansunite on Oct 8, 2025 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've seen him play shortstop

I definitely think he can play the position in the big leagues. I don’t know that he would be more than roughly average there, but I think he’s a shortstop. Moot point if they are sticking with Desmond there though.

http://www.crawfishboxes.com

by OremLK on Oct 8, 2025 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

List from 5 years ago

1. *Francisco Liriano, lhp, New Britain
2. *Lastings Milledge, of, Binghamton
3. *Hanley Ramirez, ss, Portland
4. *Jon Lester, lhp, Portland
5. *Ryan Zimmerman, 3b, Harrisburg
6. *Nick Markakis, of, Bowie
7. *Jonathan Papelbon, rhp, Portland
8. *Jeremy Sowers, lhp, Akron
9. *Anibal Sanchez, rhp, Portland
10. *Joel Zumaya, rhp, Erie
11. *Yusmeiro Petit, rhp, Binghamton
12. *Dustin Pedroia, 2b, Portland
13. *Hayden Penn, rhp, Bowie
14. *Denard Span, of, New Britain
15. *Merkin Valdez, rhp, Norwich
16. Matt Moses, 3b, New Britain
17. Eric Duncan, 3b, Trenton
18. *Michael Bourn, of, Reading
19. *Paul Maholm, lhp, Altoona
20. *Franklin Gutierrez, of, Akron
*Has played in major leagues

Ignoring Milledge, that is a freaking awesome list from 5 years ago

-1 and only member of the Nick Weglarz fan club!

by Jgaztambide on Oct 8, 2025 12:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow. That is an amazing list.

How many of those guys have had seasons over 4 WAR? I bet it’s the majority of them.

http://www.crawfishboxes.com

by OremLK on Oct 8, 2025 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

let's check!

Liriano: 2006, 2010
Milledge: 1.4 career in 1655 PA
Hanley: 2006-2010
Lester: 2008, 2009, 2010
Zimmerman: 2006, 2007, 2009, 2010
Markakis: 2007, 2008
Papelbon: Never done it (hard to do as a closer)
Jeremy Sowers: 3.3 career in 400 innings
Anibal Sanchez: 2010
Zumaya: 2.6 carrer WAR in 206 innings
Petit: 0.3 WAR in 229 innings
Pedroia: 2008, 2009, on pace for 2010 but was injured
Hayden Penn: Not even close
Denard Span: 3.6 in 2009 (so close)
Merkin Valdez: Nope
Matt Moses: Didn’t reach majors
michael Bourn: 2009, 2010
Paul Maholm: 11.9 in 981 career innings
Franklin Gutierrez: 6.1 in 2009 (mostly based on defense)

For those counting at home, that’s 9 of the 20 players posting a total of 22 seasons of WAR over 4.0, and a lot of guys who have come close. This is (obviously) a supremely successful group

-1 and only member of the Nick Weglarz fan club!

by Jgaztambide on Oct 8, 2025 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very much so

This is the kind of list I was really expecting to see for the Southern League. A few misses of course, but an extremely strong upper half of the list.

http://bullpenbanter.com

by gatling on Oct 8, 2025 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Papelbon

Was Papelbon a starter in the minors or was he groomed to be the closer his entire career?

The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. It reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.

by Savoy on Oct 8, 2025 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was a starter...

he was never meant to be their closer. It just worked out that way. Some people even thought he was their future ace.

ETHAN MARTIN!!!!

by joegonzo on Oct 8, 2025 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shoots down my theory

We often times downgrade RP even when they can be dominant. (thinking of Kimbrel arguments here & I am sure there are others).
I thought it was interesting that Paps would rank 7 if he was known to be an RP. Being an SP prospect shoots down my theory.

The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. It reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.

by Savoy on Oct 8, 2025 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Paps

He was a starter in the minors. He was a guy who could dominate for 4 or 5 innings and completely fall apart, so he was moved to the pen pretty early on in his Major League career. Only started three games for the Sox in his career, all of them in 2005 (his rookie year)

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by Jgaztambide on Oct 8, 2025 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Starter

I think the reason they gave for leaving him as a closer was that he was too dumb to through the order multiple times.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 8, 2025 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Keep in mind

That was simply what I remember coming out around then. I’m sure Boston never came out and said it.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 8, 2025 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Papelbon only know pitch

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by Jgaztambide on Oct 8, 2025 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

the Red Sox have done this with other players

Papelbon was a closer in college. He was moved to the rotation partly because there was sentiment that he could handle it, and partly because they wanted him to work on developing all of his pitches. Even when he was at his best as a starting pitcher in the minors, there was a high probability that his true future was in the bullpen.

by mrkupe on Oct 8, 2025 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

If I remember correctly...

He and Wainwight were both highly regarded prospects that were thrust into closer roles out of need during the same saeson/postseason. One stayed in the pen, the other didn’t. Both decisions seemed to have worked out ok, haha.

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by BStal11 on Oct 8, 2025 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Papelbon...

started the season as the closer out of need. I believe there was an injury and they felt they didn’t have any reliever good enough to close for them. Papelbon was a really good starting pitcher prospect.

ETHAN MARTIN!!!!

by joegonzo on Oct 8, 2025 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes...

The next spring he began preparing to start again, but was running into trouble 3rd time through the order (like usual). Still had pretty nasty results overall in spring… then he took it on himself and went to Red Sox management and asked to be made a Closer again.

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by alskor on Oct 8, 2025 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lot of Red Sox there

Bring in Bard.
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by bestbostonsports on Oct 8, 2025 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Two of the Sox were Theo guys, as for the other two

 Lester was drafted when Mike Port was the GM, Duquette was the GM when Hanley they signed Hanley, (Youk was a Duke draftee as well) Just tossing some love out there for two forgotten GM’s

by Rajah358 on Oct 8, 2025 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brackman at #20 in FSL, and top 5 here? Interesting. Did his stuff, control, etc improve with the jump?

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by koolkerns101 on Oct 8, 2025 12:37 PM EDT reply actions  

personal guess

Age played a big factor. In the FSL, no matter how good he looks, you’re going to have people countering every plus with “yeah, but he’s 25 in December”. But he finally seems to have turned a corner, and 24 in AA isn’t a dealbreaker.

by mrkupe on Oct 8, 2025 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seems like a good list to me

Brackman seems a bit too high, but the main thing I’d do if I were writing the list is switch Rizzo and Laird. Laird had a great year (at least while he was in AA) but I’d bet heavily that Rizzo ends up having the better MLB career.

Rizzo projects as an average regular, or maybe a bit better IMO, while Laird looks more like a second division starter to me, if that.

Also would move Kipnis a bit higher…it’s a tossup between him and Chisenhall, and the Indians have the makings of a good infield between those two.

by BaseballBrain on Oct 8, 2025 1:03 PM EDT reply actions  

I just don't get the Rizzo love

You have to be a hell of a hitter to be an average regular at 1B, let alone above average. I can’t say I’m excited about Rizzo’s chances to have that kind of bat.

by PissedMick on Oct 8, 2025 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mostly age-related

His raw stats aren’t especially impressive for a 1b, but he did put up an 800+ OPS with 20 HR and 30 2B. What makes it quite impressive is that he played almost the entire year at age 20. The average 1b this year hit “only” 264/353/452. I don’t have a problem seeing Rizzo hitting that average and exceeding it in his peak years.

by BaseballBrain on Oct 8, 2025 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also

I forgot to add that the stats posted above were put up in less than a full season at AA. He had a total of 25 HR if his A+ stats are counted. Also in his favor are the facts that the Eastern League is generally a pitching friendly league and he got better and better as the season progressed, OPS’ing over 900 after the All-Star break.

by BaseballBrain on Oct 8, 2025 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Have you watched him in person?

Do that, that will impress you.

Bring in Bard.
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by bestbostonsports on Oct 8, 2025 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

James Loney was always very impressive to watch in person.

There’s not one thing that Rizzo does well, from a numbers perspective. If a first base prospect isn’t a phenomenal hitter, I’m just not that interested. ARL doesn’t make a guy a good prospect by itself.

by PissedMick on Oct 8, 2025 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

something worth studying

Just how much age really does matter relative to offensive production, separated by position. I have a working theory in my head that as you go down the defensive spectrum, the relationship between age and production at a given level matters less.

by mrkupe on Oct 8, 2025 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

His 2nd half OPS was over 900

Obviously I’m cherry picking stats but I think that number displays how he adjusted to the league as time went on. He’s also a very good defender at first

Brandon Jacobs of Lowell > Brandon Jacobs of NYG

by Lesterfan on Oct 8, 2025 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you.

I really don’t understand the Rizzo love. He’s pretty blah as a prospect. He is a very good hitter and his power took a big step forward this year, but he’s average to below average 1B in the bigs all the way… not my kind of prospect.

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by alskor on Oct 8, 2025 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think

we’ll have a better idea of Rizzo’s upside after next year. I think is performance this year gives more reason for optimism than skepticism, but let’s see what he does in ’11.

by blackoutyears on Oct 14, 2025 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

let me process this

You mean to say we’ll know more about a player’s upside after he’s played more?

:)

by mrkupe on Oct 15, 2025 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

off the list

A couple of guys that had really nice years at the plate didn’t make it, not that I expected them to, but to keep an eye on: Eric Thames, Sean Ratliff. 23 I think so not that old. Ratliff Ks a bit too much. Guys a little older that had nice years: Alex Presley, Zach Lutz, Nick Evans, Lucas Duda (ok, i’m a Mets fan). Not the toolsiest bunch, but they did have nice years at the plate, and not that any of them are huge prospects, but they could sneak up on ya.

by wobatus on Oct 8, 2025 1:17 PM EDT reply actions  

and Joe Benson

he had a decent year in EL as well.

by wobatus on Oct 8, 2025 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, David Adams, Thomas Neal, Chris Marrero, Ryan Lavarnway, Joe Mahoney, Stephen Lombardozzi

My guess is Lonbardozzi didn’t have enough PA to qualify.
Neal, Marrero, Mahoney, and Lavaraway likely miss due to defensive limitations.

by acerimusdux on Oct 8, 2025 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Neal

He came back after a slow start. I think, 250 PA or more, Ratliff had the league’[s highest wOBA of anyone under age 24.

I really like Dave “Patch” Adams.

by wobatus on Oct 8, 2025 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ratliff

Yeah, I like Ratliff, but I can see him missing this, it’s a deep list. Even though he hit .312 and slugged .572, the 23% SO rate there still leaves some concern about whether he’ll hit for as much average at higher levels. He’s not as limited defensively though as guys like Neal, Weglarz, Marrero, Mahoney, Evans, Duda, etc. He’s more alongside Benson for me as far as tools; a bit better upside though, and Benson is having even more trouble with the strikeouts (27% in the EL).

by acerimusdux on Oct 8, 2025 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think he should make the list

but just was rattling off some guys to keep an eye on who didn’t. And you came up with a bunch of good ones too. As I was saying in the Southern League thread, I’m also looking for Chase D’Arnaud to bounce back. :)

by wobatus on Oct 8, 2025 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

He might be top 30

I like him better than some of those names. But, I think Kalish, Stewart, Thames, the Adams family (David and Ryan), Weglarz, Marrero (only 21, still good power potential), are ahead of him on the list of guys who missed.

by acerimusdux on Oct 8, 2025 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1 No Joe Benson or Nick Weglarz

I called it - Joe Mauer's first career Home-Run at Target Field !!!

Why Oh Why did the D'Backs select A.J. Pollock over Mike Trout?

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Oct 8, 2025 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Benson would make my list

Weglarz wouldn’t come close.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 8, 2025 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Weglarz

He did not play enough to qualify. He only played in 37 games with the Aeros before getting promoted to AAA.

by Pup Dog on Oct 9, 2025 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Along these lines I'd say Matt Rizzotti deserves a hat time.

He’s 24 and a 1b/dh so obviously he’s not worthy of a top 20 list. But he put together a hell of a year.

.361/.452/.635/1.087 - 16 homers 62 rbis in only 266 at bats.

by Southwest on Oct 8, 2025 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brackman at #5 seems outrageously high

Yeah he has upside, just like a lot of pitchers, but no way is he a top ten prospect in this league. Who would really rank him over Chisenhall or Gibson? Seriously?

by deezle on Oct 8, 2025 2:53 PM EDT reply actions  

I wasn't that impressed by Brackman

I saw Brackman once this year and wasn’t that impressed. He was better than a year ago, but still looked like a backend SP to me. I also wasn’t that impressed by Trevor May, who also ranked highly on two lists. You never know with the pitching though, sometimes seeing these guys once or twice isn’t enough. Obviously other people are seeing something there. Brackman made the FSL list at #20. So people in two leagues are liking him.

by acerimusdux on Oct 8, 2025 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Given his age, he should be dominating A-ball, I don’t get it either.

by BryceHarper on Oct 8, 2025 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also Adam Warren

Just noticing, I was surprised by Adam Warren too, at #13 on the FSL list. He then had good numbers for his 10 starts in the EL as well, but didn’t make the list. He spent just a bit more time in the FSL though, so maybe that’s the reason, more people saw him there (though I didn’t, so I really don’t have an opinion on that one).

by acerimusdux on Oct 8, 2025 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

BA's hard on for Brackman has never been justifiable IMHO.

He’s a good prospect again… but not that good.

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by alskor on Oct 8, 2025 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Keep in mind

Some scouts were putting RJ comps on Brackman coming out of NC St, and the ceiling really hasn’t changed since then. He probably has < 5% chance of being THAT good, but he is still someone you can dream on. I think that’s where BA gets their “love” for him.

by guru4u on Oct 9, 2025 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Manuel said that the August version of Brackman showcased two 70 pitches

If that’s the case, I don’t have a huge problem with where he’s ranked. Brandon Belt on the other hand, well I’m sure everyone knows my opinion on first base prospects.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 9, 2025 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

With Belt...

…it gets to the point where you start asking, “What more does a guy have to do to prove himself to you?” He makes a significant mechanical adjustment and just goes off all season, hitting just about as well as humanly possible. Incredible overall production, excellent walk rate, very good strikeout rate, very good isolated power, reportedly very good defense at first base.

It was his first pro season and he’ll probably be in the majors opening day next year. Even as a first baseman, he’s an excellent prospect.

http://www.crawfishboxes.com

by OremLK on Oct 9, 2025 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see him as another James Loney

Perhaps a bit more like the 2008 version than the current James Loney, but not an impact guy. There is no way in hell I’d take him over Chisenhall, Gibson, White, Kipnis, Kelly, or Espinosa. If Brackman is indeed showcasing two 70 pitches, I’d rather have him as well.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 9, 2025 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

any particular reason why you feel this way?

is it because of any statistical analysis of your own or because you heard that comp somewhere and it fit your preconceived notions?

Also, if belt ends up playing the OF, as he does have the athleticism and arm to play RF, how much of a better prospect does he become overnight?

by zeisenbe on Oct 9, 2025 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's definitely not statistical based

I’m not a huge comp fan, but that’s just who comes to mind when I read scouting reports of Belt. I believe in the contact ability, but don’t quite buy the power.

It depends on what kind of defender he’d be in the outfield. If he has Kubel-esque range there, his stock doesn’t improve at all.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 9, 2025 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Loney never hit that well in the minors

Never. And for the most part, not even close. I don’t even think it’s a very good comp—Loney had/has better contact skills, but Belt has demonstrated far more patience and isolated power, and so far seems to have better BABIP skills.

Statistically, Lance Berkman seems like a better fit. Obviously, the likelihood that Belt turns out to be that good is quite low, since Berkman has had a number of borderline MVP-caliber seasons and it’s never likely that a prospect becomes one of the best players in the game… but maybe a poor man’s version.

I think you need to put a little more weight on statistical production in the upper minors. The track record for guys who hit like this at AA/AAA is, generally speaking, very good (there are anecdotal exceptions of course).

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by OremLK on Oct 9, 2025 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I couldn't care less what Loney did in the minors

Belt’s had a great year, but I don’t see why I should over-emphasize the numbers he put up. Lance Berkman? Jesus that’s strong, no, I don’t think he will be a poor man’s version of Lance Berkman. If I did, I’d obviously think much more highly of him.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 9, 2025 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Statistically.

And my point was that you should think more highly of him than you do. James Loney is ridiculously pessimistic assuming you’re talking about reasonable ceiling.

http://www.crawfishboxes.com

by OremLK on Oct 9, 2025 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why should I?

I get it, you’re impressed with the numbers. I don’t weigh minor league performance anywhere near as heavily as you do. And I wouldn’t call that his ceiling, it’s what I think he will be. I don’t know, I guess that would be a 75th percentile (arbitrary guess) outcome. I don’t think that’s pessimistic at all.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 9, 2025 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

What I'm most impressed by...

…is not just the raw stats, but by how fast he moved, and how he proved himself capable of handling each level as he reached it. It’s very rare for a prospect to make it to AAA in his first professional season, let alone post .956 OPS there with a good BB/K ratio and ISO (albeit all in a very limited sample size, but still—he was anything but overwhelmed).

http://www.crawfishboxes.com

by OremLK on Oct 10, 2025 7:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

interesting

I saw him much earlier in the year, so obviously not what I saw.
Even then, he looked pretty good, just not quite top 20 worthy.

When I saw May, he was struggling as well, and I don’t think I saw him break 90 mph. But there are lots of reports of him hitting mid 90’s, and he must sometimes also have more command and feel than I saw.

Cody Scarpetta, I thought would make the FSL list. He had good numbers and maybe the best fastball I saw this year. But he also leaves it up in the zone too much, and could struggle some at higher levels if he doesn’t continue to improve location and feel. But a big step forward from last year. Still, reminds me a bit of Holt when he looked good in the first half last season, before he fell apart.

I’m just not sure what to make of these guys who struggle a lot then suddenly look real good for a brief stretch. Brackman in AA had a 4.19 ERA and 5.24 RA over his first 8 starts, with one nice 2 hit 8 SO performance mixed in there. Then he absolutely dominated for his last 7 appearances in August and September, with a 0.71 ERA, 2.13 RA, 0.89 WHIP, 27 SO and only 8 BB in 38 IP.

OK, I’ll buy that’s not the same pitcher I saw. But it’s still only 7 starts.

He did something similar, but worse, last year in the SAL, when he had a 6.64 ERA and 7.37 RA at the end of July, but finished with 8 strong appearances (in a bullpen role). The BA scouting report said “His late hot streak happened when the Yankees shelved his knuckle-curve, having him focus on a conventional grip, and his changeup.”

If he’s showing two 70 pitches, he’s obviously showing improved command of that curve.

by acerimusdux on Oct 9, 2025 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I'm going to have a hard time ranking and grading him

Just looking at Yankee prospects, I think I prefer him to Betances, but not Banuelos.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 9, 2025 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did he address Stewart?

Those seem like the obvious two.

I’m not seeing Stewart behind Andrew Brackman, Rudy Owens and Hector Noessi. And Kalish I would have ahead of at least Iglesias and Romine.

by acerimusdux on Oct 8, 2025 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Manuel on Stewart
Pretty close call on him as well, I was surprised he didn’t get more support. His fastball is exciting for both its velocity and its life, and his slider gives him an average secondary pitch. The scouts I talked to thought he was destined for the bullpen because he was better with the two-pitch mix and wasn’t as adept at changing speeds for the rotation, and because the two pitches should work in short order in Toronto.

http://bullpenbanter.com

by gatling on Oct 8, 2025 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd have Kalish in my top 10

He may not have an elite tool, but he’s solid across the board, and I just don’t see what there is not to like about him.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 8, 2025 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

looks like a league average regular anyway

So far, UZR/150 has him -5.3 in CF and +4.8 in LF. That’s still a pretty small sample, and DRS likes him better, but at worst it seems he’s a tweener, a bit below average in CF or above average in a corner. To me that means he can play either, it doesn’t really matter which, his value will be about the same either way. That’s about a -2.5 overall defensively after positional adjustment.

OK, so all he needs to do then to be a +2.0 WAR player is put up a .335 wOBA. For a guy who had a .375 wOBA in AAA this year, and a .360 wOBA in AA last year, who doesn’t turn 23 until spring, that seems well within reach. I think a 2.0-3.0 WAR is a reasonable expectation even without any elite tools there. His plate discipline looks like a pretty elite skill. He’ll probably reach his peak early, even if it isn’t the absolute highest peak.

by acerimusdux on Oct 8, 2025 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's league average today.

With the possibility for a lot more if he gets that OBP up to the levels his minor league track record suggests he’s capable of.

by slamcactus on Oct 11, 2025 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anecdotally, his defense looks really good in CF.

I was very surprised b/c I kept reading things questioning it… whereas all along everyone I talked to about it said he looked good in CF.

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by alskor on Oct 11, 2025 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just missed

Eric Thames- #21-25
Adeiny Hechevarria- not much separation from Iglesias
Ryan Adams- #21-30

http://bullpenbanter.com

by gatling on Oct 8, 2025 3:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Joe Benson ????

wtf i’m surprised he isnt’ on big-time

I called it - Joe Mauer's first career Home-Run at Target Field !!!

Why Oh Why did the D'Backs select A.J. Pollock over Mike Trout?

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Oct 8, 2025 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Manuel on Benson
He has top 20 tools no doubt, but he and the breaking ball still are not friends. He just had too much swing-and-miss for the scouts and managers I talked to for him to rank in the top 20, and for him to be an elite prospect.

http://bullpenbanter.com

by gatling on Oct 8, 2025 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Milone?

Not sure how Tom Milone (Harrisburg) missed this list. Very good pitcher, with great control. He lead the league with 155 K’s and 2nd in ERA 2.85.

by Senatorsfansunite on Oct 8, 2025 4:10 PM EDT reply actions  

problem is stuff

Milone’s got mid-80’s heat, occasionally touching upper-80’s. He’s a “crafty lefty” with a good 3 pitch mix, and he has a chance to be an end of the rotation lefty, but guys with such pedestrian stuff rarely crack top prospect lists.

by toonsterwu on Oct 8, 2025 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Owens

Anyone else find it interesting that BA is reporting the velocity bump on Owens now too? Personally, I think he is a solid to high B for me. Of course there isn’t huge upside potential here, but generally speaking I think he might fall into a niche of players (and typically lefties) that I think get underrated because in terms of stuff, they most definitely profile as back-end types.

The command is pretty spectacular (1.4 BB/9 in 2010, 1.2 in 2009), and he still manages to maintain a more than healthy strikeout rate (7.9 K/9 in 2010, 8.2 in 2009) while limiting hits (7.4 H/9 in 2010, 7.3 in 2009).

This profile just strikes me as very similar to the Travis Wood of the past two years, who is another young lefty with excellent command following a disastrous first try at AA in 2008, and enough stuff to get by. Now, let’s not get overexcited about Wood after 17 MLB starts either, but he’s shown enough to consider that he could push what was seen as a #4/#5 ceiling up to a #3. Of course, an Andy Sonnanstine-type would be a decent counterpoint… but he isn’t a lefty. /shrug love me some Rudy.

http://rswanzey.blogspot.com

by rswanzey on Oct 8, 2025 4:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Disagree

The velocity bump is nice, but his secondary stuff is still below average in general. I thought the biggest thing with Travis Wood was an above average to plus changeup to go with good velocity on his fastball. That puts him a step above where Owens is now for sure, probably still if the breaking ball becomes average for Owens.

http://bullpenbanter.com

by gatling on Oct 8, 2025 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

The thing is....

BA is the only place who isn’t high on Owen’s change up right now. I have heard it called a plus pitch and someone even called it the best change in the minors. It is much better than what they have stated it as.

ETHAN MARTIN!!!!

by joegonzo on Oct 8, 2025 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can you link to those reports please?

I’m really curious to see who is rating his changeup as the best in the minors.

http://bullpenbanter.com

by gatling on Oct 8, 2025 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't know exactly where...

heard best change in the minors, but I am pretty sure I did. It may have been only “one of the best” in the minors, but still that would make it above average at least. the links I put below show managers thoughts on his change. I know that is not all that much, but managers have to have a pretty good understanding of what a good change is and while it may not be the best, it still must be pretty good to earn praise from managers as the best.

ETHAN MARTIN!!!!

by joegonzo on Oct 10, 2025 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually two reports...

“Owens didn’t need to light up the radar guns to gain the respect of SAL managers. Though his fastball sits at 87-90 mph, they rated him the league’s best pitching prospect at midseason, and also cited him as having the best changeup and control.”- From last years SAL top 20
and
“His changeup grades out as his best pitch”- from last years Pirates top 10.

Both from BA. The EL top 20 was done by known Pirate prospect hater John Manuel though. I’m guessing that is one of the reasons why it is “fringe average” when everyone else would not call it anything below above average.

ETHAN MARTIN!!!!

by joegonzo on Oct 8, 2025 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those quotes are nice

But his stuff wasn’t regarded as very good last year, he got the “crafty lefty” tag in the Pirates Top 10. So even if his changeup was his best pitch it doesn’t mean it was anything overly special. It wouldn’t surprise me if the velocity increase was enough to move his fastball to being called his best pitch since he already had the fastball command to go with it.

Yes, the managers in the Sally voted Owens as having the best changeup, but in the Sally League writeup from last year there is no mention of it being a plus pitch as there was for Martin Perez’s changeup, or well above average as there was for Manny Banuelos’ changeup. That’s one of the downside to the league lists, the manager’s opinion don’t seem to dovetail with the scouting opinions all the time.

http://bullpenbanter.com

by gatling on Oct 8, 2025 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

The thing for me is...

this is the only place where I have heard his change up was anything but above average. I follow Rudy Owens more than the typical fan(Pirates fan here) and I know his stuff pretty well. His change up is pretty nasty. You may have not heard much about his change because he wasn’t a top guy like those two were. He still isn’t considered a top guy. They one comp I heard last year over and over for Owens was Zach Duke with a better change up. Duke himself has a pretty decent change that grades out no worse than average so Owens MUST have an above average.

In the Pirates system last year we had Daniel McCutchen who is considered to have a really good change. Maybe not plus, but certainly above average. If Owens has a better change up than him it grades out no less than above average.

ETHAN MARTIN!!!!

by joegonzo on Oct 10, 2025 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

B- at very best

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 8, 2025 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

No Ben Revere either

I called it - Joe Mauer's first career Home-Run at Target Field !!!

Why Oh Why did the D'Backs select A.J. Pollock over Mike Trout?

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Oct 8, 2025 5:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Hard to argue him in this deep a league. With that little power, he’ll have to get on base at a .400 clip with very good CF defense to cut it as a first division regular; not seeing it. Fine 4th OF maybe, though that arm would be painful to slot in even occasionally in RF.

by goldenblack on Oct 9, 2025 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

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