101 Prospects: The List
Welcome back. I posted a top 50 list exactly three weeks ago today, with plans to eventually balloon it even further. That list led to a ton of good discussion and argument, and it truly and honestly helped me refine the list as it grew bigger. This is that refined, bigger list. Is it better? I don't know. So, read on, and give me your opinions. A list such as this was and is incredibly ambitious, and I am honestly very pleased with the results. It will lead to a lot of disagreement, likely even more so than with my first list.
You'll notice that the format of the list is now very different. I've split it up into the following groups: #1-10, #11-20, #21-30, #31-50, #51-75, and #76-101. At the start of each section is one blurb that details any significant changes from the last list, and a second blurb that highlights one significant player battle within the range that gave me some trouble/controversy. Meanwhile, each of the top 30 prospects here now have write-ups, in addition to sporadic reports on the final 71 players. A few of the write-ups are carried over from the last list, but most (think: about 90%) have been just now changed or added.
So, have at it. This list was a lot of fun for me to create, and I hope it's a lot of fun for you to read and critique.
Here goes nothing...
TOP 10:
Since we last visited:
Not much has changed in the top 10. Price, Wieters, and Heyward are still locked in. However, the single most controversial ranking last time- Tillman at #4- has been dramatically altered. I was very excited about that ranking when I first posted it, and I thought my initial explanation made sense, but over time I just stopped being able to justify it. He's still in my top 10, but I did drop him behind a couple other pitchers.
Key Battle: Chris Tillman vs. Madison Bumgarner vs. Trevor Cahill
I said last time that I was not high on Cahill. His stats are admittedly impressive for an extreme hitters' league, but he slipped quite a bit after the promotion to AA. You could say "But, he was just 20!", and I could counter with Chris Tillman, who started the year at AA, at age 20. So, between Tillman and Cahill, I'd definitely take Tillman. After that, it's Bumgarner and Tillman. Bumgarner is personal preference for me, but consider this- among minor leaguers with 90+ IP at their respective levels, Bumgarner was 2nd in the minors in K%, at 29.4%. Even more impressively, of the minors' top 5 in K%, Bumgarner easily had the lowest BB%, at 4.0%.
This, combined with the blurbs coming out of a BA chat last month (where it was said that the concerns over Bumgarner's secondary pitches are "overrated", and that Bumgarner may be the best pitching prospect in baseball), have me thinking that MadBum is a good pick at #5.
1.) David Price
Price is (still) the clear-cut #1 to me. People may disagree and put Wieters here, but you can't vote against a guy who is a near-lock to be a top-of-the-rotation ace. Only Kershaw would rank higher, if he were still eligible. It should also be of note, since this came into question last time, that Price's postseason with Tampa Bay has very little to do with this ranking. I like Price (as so many others do) because of his excellent stint in the minors, not his ridiculously small sample size in October. Hopefully, however, that excellent stint in the minors will help him carry over his play to future Octobers.
2.) Matt Wieters
A more accurate ranking for Wieters would be #1A. He's as good as anyone in the minors, and was probably major league ready about a year ago, when he was taken in the draft by the Orioles. This is a guy who has already drawn Mike Piazza comparisons, and there are some who say he can be even better. It seems impossible to me that someone could not be sold on this guy.
3.) Jason Heyward
I am ridiculously impressed with Jason Heyward's 2008. As far as hitters go, he could arguably end up better than Wieters. He's ranked lower because there's a little more risk, he's a little further away, and Wieters is staying at catcher. Heyward flirted with the .17/.17 club, but narrowly missed it with an ISO of .160 (his K% was 16.5%)
4.) Travis Snider
Yes, Snider "only" hit .275 last year. He struck out too much, too. But, it is absolutely crucial to remember that Snider is only 20 years old. Snider managed to flash already-developed power all season long, and it's only going to further develop as his career progresses. There's a great chance of him breaking camp with the Jays in 2009.
5.) Madison Bumgarner
Madison Bumgarner brings about more arguments than any other player on this list. Some people are not convinced that his Low-A stats will translate to high-level success. Some are worried about his secondary stuff. Others have faith that his slider will develop, and think he is the best non-Price pitcher in the minors. Put me in that second group. If he's this good with poor secondary stuff, and it's assured that his secondary pitches will develop at some level, then how incredible will he be once that happens?
6.) Cameron Maybin
Maybin's stock has dropped steadily since he was promoted to Detroit in 2007, but he is still easily a top 10 prospect in my mind. He still has all the tools that originally made him a top prospect, and his statistical dominance returned as the year wore on, ending with an incredible September in Florida.
7.) Dexter Fowler
I'm a big fan of Fowler. Compared to other elite center field prospects, he tends to be underrated, but he has some very good tools, and 2008 was a strong breakout year for him. His hit tool was as strong as ever, and he was doing it against elevated competition. There's a chance he starts the year in the majors, but it's more likely he returns to AAA for a final tuneup.
8.) Chris Tillman
At 20, Tillman dominated at AA. Not "held his own", "dominated'. He has a ton of potential, and could be heading up Baltimore's rotation by the end of 2009. That's sort of pretty good. The one question mark is his control, which will hopefully come as he gets older. He noticeably cut down on his walks in August.
9.) Trevor Cahill
Once again- I'm really not high on Cahill. He's good, don't get me wrong. He proved that with his very good stint in the worst pitching league in baseball. But his promotion to AA, in my opinion, revealed some holes. His control slipped, and he didn't look like quite the ace that he was earlier in the season. He's still just 20, and he's still an elite prospect, but he has a little more to prove.
10.) Mike Moustakas
Moustakas will get into the top 10 in more places than not. Here, he makes it as a fringe guy. His power is nice, but would be nicer from SS than 3B. I made a Brandon Wood comparison in the last list, and was corrected with regards to Wood's fielding ability. I think the comparison is still valid between their bats.
FROM #11 TO #20:
Since we last visited:
Lots of things are different on the interior, but nothing moved in and nothing moved out. The changes come from primarily two changes in opinion. First, Mike Stanton and Matt LaPorta were swapped for reasons that will be detailed in their write-ups. Second, the three-pitcher battle detailed next.
Key Battle: Jhoulys Chacin vs. Jordan Zimmermann vs. Neftali Feliz
Last time, these three were ranked with Feliz first, Zimmermann second, and Chacin third. They are now reversed. Why? Because digging deeper into the stats, Feliz is simply not as impressive. He didn't make as many starts as the other two, and he didn't go nearly as deep into games, pitching less than 5 innings per start. This doesn't even begin to touch on his shaky control.
It seems obvious to me that Chacin is #1 in this group, as a guy who can take on innings and stop guys from taking free bases. He is only 4 months older than Feliz, so age should not be a factor. Zimmermann is a middle-of-the-road type here. He's pretty well-rounded, and all three are very good prospects right now, but at this point, I would bet on Jhoulys.
11.) Colby Rasmus
I wasn't a big fan of Rasmus going into 2008, and he did nothing to make me one last year. He's up here because he's still got all the tools, but his season was discouraging. I don't think I could believe in an argument to move him into the top 10.
12.) Andrew McCutchen
While he has been dropped in these rankings to the back of the elite CF pack, that does not necessarily mean McCutchen's stock has dropped. He sort of treaded water at AAA this year- developing, but not getting noticeably better or worse. The biggest change is the addition of plate discipline to his arsenal of tools. His defense is phenomenal. I hate to make the comparison, but McCutchen's absolute ceiling, his best case, everything-goes-right scenario, is Ichiro-like.
13.) Rick Porcello
The hype surrounding Porcello going into 2008 was immense, and in a lot ways, he disappointed. In other ways, he gave us a delicious taste of what's to come. Your thoughts on him may differ, but I was definitely underwhelmed. Yes, he was pitching without his curve, and yes, he was on a short leash. But, look, Bumgarner didn't have any (good) secondary stuff, either, and his stats lapped Porcello's, easily. Where are the K's? Unless Porcello's curve is out-of-this-world good, and we have no reason to believe that it is, I am afraid that he'll end up as Jeremy Sowers v2.0.
14.) Matt LaPorta
It was known going into the 2007 draft that LaPorta's bat was very nearly MLB-ready. That part of his game has not disappointed, as he's tallied 34 home runs in about 500 professional at-bats. However, his position is still as uncertain as ever. I asked a friend to classify LaPorta, and the answer was "Konerko in the OF". That works really well, and there's not much more to be said with him.
15.) Jhoulys Chacin
Chacin's combination of endurance, power, and control has made him one of the best pitching prospects in the minors. If you're not counting, he's #6 on this list. Like Cahill, Chacin dominated in the CAL League, which is no small feat. He'll start AA as a 21-year old, with a chance to push to the majors by midseason.
16.) Jordan Zimmermann
Zimmermann, like I said in the last iteration of this list, is a major sleeper. He enters 2009 as the Nationals' best prospect, but this is obviously an aggressive grade. I really like his polish. In a league with many good pitchers, Zimmermann had the third lowest opposing AVG. Another good season gets him into the top 10, almost without argument.
17.) Michael Stanton
In response to a problem someone had with Stanton at #13 on the last list, I wrote the following blurb, which pretty much completes my thoughts on him: I’m wildly enthusiastic. Stanton’s only real question is with his K’s. He has ridiculous power, makes good contact, takes a good amount of walks, and has a passable amount of speed. Yes, his defense isn’t fantastic, but he’s still playing at CF, and can move to corner outfield if necessary (where his bat would still play very, very well).
18.) Neftali Feliz
Some lists I've seen have put Feliz in the top 10. That's a huge stretch. He's young, and he has a couple good pitches, but the question marks are numerous. His control is shaky, his durability is questionable... I wouldn't mind having him on my team, but beware of an implosion.
19.) Tim Alderson
And the pitchers keep coming. Going into the year, Alderson's control was heavily touted. That held up, as his 5.9% BB% was very, very good. I am not as high on him as many, but I like Alderson a good deal. He needs a better second year to convince me that he's an elite pitching prospect.
20.) Pedro Alvarez
On the one hand, if all the scouting reports on Alvarez are true, he should get half this ranking (#10). On the other hand, the lack of any significant data is a huge knock against Alvarez, whether or not that's his fault. There's not much more to say about him than this. I want to see what he does next year, so chalk this up as a (slightly) conservative ranking.
FROM #21 TO #30:
Since we last visited:
Here come the shake-ups. While there were only 2 completely new names in this range compared to the last list, no fewer than 8 players changed places in the group of 10. The changes are led by Justin Smoak, who ascended more spots from the last iteration than anybody else on the entire list.
This look at the list's top 5 changes shows how impressive Smoak's ascension is. Only two other players rose more than 10 spots. All of the other similarly drastic movements were drops in the list.
Key Battle: Josh Vitters vs. Tim Beckham
In the 2007 draft, it was widely accepted that Josh Vitters was the top high school position player available. In the 2008 draft, that honor went to Tim Beckham. Critics of Vitters cited a very low floor, and his short season stats last summer gave those critics some extra ammunition. This year, however, they were silence, as Vitters put up a fantastic line and displayed the tools that made him a top 5 pick. Beckham, meanwhile, is sort of where Vitters was. He struggled in short season ball, and while that obviously doesn't mean much, I always thought of him as a distinct #3 in his own draft class (behind Alvarez and Smoak). If he shows us something next year, and he probably will, then great. If not, I wouldn't be all that surprised.
21.) Lars Anderson
It's a convenient comparison, since they're in the same organization, but I see a lot of Kevin Youkilis in Lars Anderson. Anderson will likely have more power when all is said and done, and Youkilis is the better defender (but maybe not by much), but the two have a lot of similarities. I like Anderson's discipline, and he is still only 21 years old.
22.) Brett Anderson
Anderson's control is extremely, extremely impressive. He's a groundball pitcher, and while I know this is the stereotypical comparison for groundball pitchers, he looks a lot like the lefty version of a poor man's Brandon Webb. If that sounds like I'm trying my absolute best to not over-compliment him, it's because I am trying my absolute best to not over-compliment him.
23.) Justin Smoak
I see a future superstar in Smoak. Think that's extreme? I don't- he has power and patience at the plate, and I see him developing into a Teixeira-type after he fully develops. I'm optimistic, enthusiastic, whatever you want to call me. I'm on the SmoakTrain.
24.) Mat Gamel
People were ranking Gamel in the top 15- top 10, even- at midseason. The praise his bat was receiving was almost over the top. Indeed, Gamel declined sharply in July and August, and his fielding ability is still awful (despite improving somewhat from 2007). That being said, his .934 OPS (even with sub-.700 OPSes in July and August) is impressive.
25.) Josh Vitters
To me, Vitters' 2008 was a statement that he is still the player we all thought he was in high school. He didn't swing at a ton of pitches (K% of 16.2%), but he does need to take more walks. Once he adds power, I could see Rolen-esque numbers from him.
26.) Tim Beckham
I know that short season statistics are nearly meaningless when it comes to new draftees. Really, I get that. But I need to see something positive from Beckham before moving him higher. Superficially, Beckham "improved" as the year went on- his monthly OPS went from .494 to .579 to .743. However, his K% rose with each month, too, and his BB% was extremely disappointing. I want to see a full season from Beckham.
27.) Jake Arrieta
I'm fairly high on Arrieta. He sort of came in under the radar (well, compared to the other guys around this range), and while BA ranked him second in the Carolina League, there was only one other elite prospect in that league (Wieters). He needs to fine tune his control, but I like his K's and the initial line he put up.
28.) Carlos Carrasco
Carlos Carrasco bugs me. On the one hand, yeah, he's a great prospect, he's put up nice stats, and he deserves the praise he gets. But, he worries me. His stats have taken a hit at each level, most notably last year following his promotion to AAA. The scariest thing about that stat line was the massive drop in strikeouts. If that continues, I could see him turn into Noah Lowry. I sincerely hope I am overreacting to that stint. He admittedly looked good this year, but his time in AAA was the first time since 2006 that Carrasco has put up a FIP less than 3.00.
29.) Carlos Santana
I'm worried about Santana. He is an extreme fluke-risk, and that scares me. One year removed from a sub-.700 OPS, Santana looked good in two separate leagues, which is reassuring. If he is for real, I love his patience at the plate, and his power from catcher. Remember that he will be 23 when he opens 2009 at AA, and he has already shown weaknesses when being pushed multiple levels in a season.
30.) Tommy Hanson
There are those here who will crucify me for Hanson's ranking. He has a cult following that seems to think he's a top 5 pitching prospect, and I truly do not see it. He needs to cut down on his walks. I think his poor control in AA is more indicative of his abilities than the decent control in A+.
FROM #31 TO #50:
Since we last visited:
More shake-ups! 6 players are new to the list in this range, led by the Eric Hosmer and the one and only Derek Holland (32 and 33, respectively). Yeah, I finally broke down and included Holland. I still don't like him much at all, but I can't reasonably exclude him. Besides, I would have had to mention him eventually, since this is a top 101 list. The other notable move was Jarrod Parker's plummet into spot #40. Wondering what happened? Well, when deciding between Chacin/Zimmermann/Feliz, I took a quick glance at Parker and noticed how unflattering his statistics were. After digging deeper, more and more guys kept passing him in my rankings. An even more drastic descent occurred with Fernando Martinez, who fell to #49. That descent is explained below.
Also, you'll note that from here on out, write-ups for players are only sporadic. Any write-ups from the last list will be reposted in this one.
Key Battle 1: Ben Revere vs. Aaron Hicks
In the first top 50, I placed Hicks at 36 and Revere at 48. Here, they're nearly swapped. To me, while Hicks' raw stats looked better in 2008, he did it in a shorter season. Going into the year, Hicks had a lot of questions about his bat, and I don't know how many of those questions were answered. Revere has good press to his name (arguably more than Hicks does), and according to BA, he isn't just a slap hitter. I'll take the 5-tool guy with a question about his throwing arm over the 5-tool guy with a question about his bat, but maybe that's just me.
Key Battle 2: All Tools, No Stats
There was a sort of argument following the last list, stemming from the rankings of Fernando Martinez, Angel Villalona, and Jose Tabata, and the lack of rankings of Carlos Triunfel and Elvis Andrus. Here, I've tried to be slightly more consistent, and fault all of them for being toolsy, no-stat players. In fact, all of those players (save for F-Mart) have been dropped out of the top 50. My key problem is with Martinez, I think. People have been making excuses for him for literally 3 seasons now, and I'm beginning to wonder why. At what point can we actually expect him to put up stats? At what point is it ok to stop having blind faith in him?
31.) Brian Matusz
32.) Eric Hosmer
33.) Derek Holland
I finally broke down and included Holland. I still am not high on him, at all. But, this is a guy that would have had to be included at some point, since this is a lengthy list. I am still skeptical because of the attention (or lack thereof) that he got from BA- remember that at one point in the season, John Manuel said he'd consider taking Martin Perez over Holland. And he went out of his way to make that point. Also note that BA put him 9th in his own league, so before someone complains about this ranking, remember that he's ahead of 6 people that he was behind on that list.
34.) Jeremy Hellickson
35.) Brett Wallace
36.) Alcides Escobar
A high BABIP has kept me from ranking him any higher. His batting skill may have improved last year, but it was still heavily dependent on luck. I am worried about what will happen to him when he gets to the majors, especially considering how often he makes contact.
37.) Buster Posey
38.) Jesus Montero
39.) Jordan Schafer
I like Schafer more than this ranking probably lets on. He still has his question marks, but he hit very well once back from his suspension. He needs to get another full season under his belt before I can get him any higher.
40.) Jarrod Parker
41.) Adrian Cardenas
42.) J.P. Arencibia
43.) Ben Revere
44.) Wade Davis
Would be ranked higher if not for questions about his control. His K/BB flirted with 2.0 this year, way down from the 2007 season that got him into most top 20s. He's dropped even further on this list from the last one.
45.) David Huff
46.) Kyle Blanks
47.) Logan Morrison
48.) Michael Saunders
Saunders was a tough player to rank for me. I'm putting him here mostly based on my faith in BA. They've give him a lot of ink for years now, and he's put up consistently good-but-not-great numbers. He supposedly has tools coming out the wazoo, and BA loved him more this year than in years past. I'm banking on them here- it's another caution ranking, with a short leash.
49.) Fernando Martinez
At what point does F-Mart's lack of production stop being excused as a product of his young age? My vote is for "now". Not that #49 is bad, but it's a drastic dropoff from his rankings last offseason. Remember, this is a guy who was in the same league as Tillman and Snider, only a half year younger than both of them, and performed at about 50% of their levels. That might not be fair, but I can't justify moving him higher.
50.) Aaron Hicks
FROM #51 TO #75:
Holdovers from the last Top 50:
There are 4 players in this range that have dropped out of my last top 50. They are as follows: Michael Bowden (53), Jose Tabata (56), Angel Villalona (57), and Austin Jackson (63). The reasons for these drops are all very different. For Bowden, it was his lack of a legitimate plus pitch. For Tabata, it was a lesser emphasis on his late season outburst. For Villalona, it was increased concern over his awful plate discipline. And, for Jackson, it was his lack of any sort of professional statistical prowess, ever. Look at his seasonal output, park- and luck-neutralized per minorleaguesplits.com:
These are not the statistics of a top prospect, especially considering Jackson's mediocre tools (compared to other players here). In a comment following the last list, I dug deep into Jackson's stats and found that the entire base of his value came from exactly 3 good months, displayed here (again, neutralized for park and luck):
These 3 months are so out of whack with the rest of his career that Jackson's 4th best month was .120 points lower than the 3rd in OPS. When you've been a professional baseball player for 4 seasons, and 21 months, and exactly 3 of those 21 months are clearly good... Well, that doesn't exactly constitute a great argument to call that player a top prospect.
Key Battle: The Reliever Problem
Where to put a reliever? In my case, there's exactly one relief pitcher (Daniel Bard) on this entire list, and I had a lot of problems deciding where to place him. I went with #70. Not only did Bard completely dominate low-A, but he looked very good against higher competition at AA. He may never return to a starting rotation (scratch "may" for "most likely will"), but he has completely revived his status as a prospect. There are other players here who will likely become relievers at some point (Jake McGee?), but Bard is the only one on the list that already is one.
51.) Freddy Freeman
52.) James McDonald
53.) Michael Bowden
I am a Red Sox fan, and yet, I am not a fan of Michael Bowden. It is important to not get overly excited about Bowden. He doesn't have a true plus pitch, and to me profiles as nothing more than a #4 starter on a contender.
54.) Chris Coghlan
55.) Matt Dominguez
56.) Jose Tabata
Tabata would not be ranked here at all if not for his strong second half with Pittsburgh. I am still extremely iffy with him, as anybody should be. It was sort of a small sample size, and his time with the team could not make his season totals any less underwhelming. But, tally this ranking up as a wait-and-see. He has the skills, it's just a question of whether or not he's finally turned the corner.
57.) Angel Villalona
BA's most recent report on Villalona claims that "his hitting will improve once he gets a better grasp of the strike zone". I want a little more indication that some sort of improvement regarding that grasp is coming. 118/18 is an awful, awful K/BB ratio.
58.) Brett Cecil
59.) Carlos Triunfel
60.) Yonder Alonso
61.) Reid Brignac
62.) Elvis Andrus
63.) Austin Jackson
64.) Gio Gonzalez
It is no coincidence that in Gonzalez's two worst months in 2008, he also posted his two worst BB% of the season. They weren't drastically worse, but control is Gonzalez's one obstacle between him and the status of a top prospect. He clearly rebounded in July and August, and earned himself a promotion to Oakland. Let's see if that continues into 2009.
65.) Phillipe Aumont
66.) Engel Beltre
67.) Mike Montgomery
68.) Wilmer Flores
69.) Daniel Cortes
70.) Daniel Bard
71.) Jaff Decker
Decker has quickly become one of my favorite players in all of the minors. He doesn't just have good plate discipline- he has unbelievable plate discipline. He walked more than he struck out in the AZL, and that really is no small feat in a league where pitchers often have ridiculously high K/BBs. I don't care who you are, or what level of professional competitition you're up against. A .523 OBP is staggering.
72.) Jake McGee
73.) Martin Perez
74.) Gor\kys Hernandez
75.) Jeremy Jeffress
FROM #76 TO #100:
Ranking Process of the Last 25:
I put together a rough list of about 50 names, broke them into pitchers and hitters, and ranked them in those lists. Then, I went through a systematic sort, comparing the top guys from each list. It resulted in these 25 players. This was, by far, the hardest portion of the list to rank. It got into extreme player preference, more than at any other part of the list. Please take that into account when commenting. There's really no way to say whether, say, Nick Weglarz is a better prospect than, say, Wilin Rosario.
76.) Gordon Beckham
77.) Aaron Poreda
78.) Ross Detwiler
79.) Julio Borbon
Very few hitters this year have flown under the radar as much as Borbon has, especially when you compare his 2008 line to Jacoby Ellsbury's in 2006, the year he flew onto top prospect lists everywhere. The seasons are eerily similar- both took place in their age-22 seasons, both split time between high-A and AA, and both looked better at the latter level. The list goes onto include both players' very low-strikeout tendencies, and potential to add power. The differences? Borbon has problems taking walks, and needs to choose his stolen base opportunities better. But, his good showing in the AFL (with shockingly good plate discipline) could push him to AAA to start next season.
80.) Daniel Murphy
81,) Chris Carter
82.) Max Ramirez
83.) Cedric Hunter
84.) Hector Rondon
Rondon was a big sleeper of mine going into 2008, and he didn't disappoint. His control slipped a little from 2007, but he added some strikeouts, too. Many people will disagree with this ranking, and I will agree that it's aggressive. But, I believe in this kid. Another good year puts him on more of these lists, and likely much higher.
85.) Nicholas Weglarz
86.) Aaron Cunningham
87.) Josh Reddick
88.) Beau Mills
89.) Vin Mazzaro
Not as high on Mazzaro as some. While his 2008 season at AA, in a vacuum, would likely be enough to make him a top 50 prospect, his previous two seasons, as well as his time at AAA in 2008, beg to differ. Oakland thought enough of Mazzaro to continue promoting him despite his struggles, so maybe it isn't completely unreasonable to think that he's turned a corner. However, it's more likely (in my opinion, at least) that his 2008 was an aberration.
90.) Wilin Rosario
91.) Kila Ka'aihue
92.) Angel Salome
Things we know: Salome is short, and he's fat. But, we also know that he hits like there's no tomorrow, and he is serviceable defensively. Salome's BABIP was very high this year (.400), but it would be silly to discount his hitting abilities based on that when his 2006 (a near-normal .327 BABIP) produced a .798 OPS. The guy can hit, and he has shot up the growing list of top catching prospects. He turned 22 this season, and could push for a job in Milwaukee (which is obligated to one Jason Kendall for one more year) by the 2009 ASB.
93.) Nick Noonan
94.) Caleb Gindl
95.) Jonathan Niese
96.) James Simmons
97.) Brandon Erbe
98.) Tyler Flowers
Flowers is a very good prospect in his own right, but more likely than not, he will be the bridge between Casey Kotchman and Freddy Freeman at first base. It's a disappointing reality, because Flowers showed a ton of plate discipline, and very good power potential. However, with McCann at catcher in Atlanta for the foreseeable future, it's just that- a reality.
99.) Jharmidy DeJesus
100.) Michael Burgess
101.) Henry Alberto Rodriguez
For the second straight season, it was a tale of two years for HAR. In 2007, after a great year in the Midwest League, he slipped dramatically in Winter ball. This year, after a good stint in the California League, he slipped again with a promotion to the Texas League. Which HAR is real? If Oakland continues to be aggressive with him, we likely won't know for sure until he reaches the majors.
AFTERTHOUGHTS:
The 20 Who Just Missed (Alphabetical):
Jason Castro
David Cooper
Scott Cousins
Daniel Duffy
Todd Frazier
Christian Friedrich
Greg Golson
Wes Hodges
Kellen Kulbacki
Andrew Lambo
Michael Main
Chris Marrero
Lou Marson
Tim Melville
Adam Moore
Cole Rohrbough
Austin Romine
Neftali Soto
Julio Teheran
Sean West
Ranking Changes:
-Removed Pablo Sandoval from the list for lack of prospect status.
-Added Chris Carter at #81.
-Removed Wilson Ramos and Blake Wood from the "Just Missed" list.
-Added Todd Frazier and Kellen Kulbacki to the "Just Missed" list.
-Removed Michael Inoa from the "Just Missed" list.
-Added Michael Main to the "Just Missed" list.
-Swapped Brett Anderson (#27 -> #22) and Jake Arrieta (#22 -> #27).
Noticeable Trends:
One thing that really shocked me was the amount of catchers in the list. There were literally 7 catchers that I could have filled in from #95-101, and it would have been just as legitimate as the 7 players that I picked. I also may have been a little inconsistent with 2008 draftees- some (Smoak, Alonso), I blindly ranked aggressively; others (Beckham, Hicks), I was a little more conservative with. It was a conscious thing, though.
Closing Comments:
This was one of the more aggressive and ambitious projects I've worked on, and it is still primarily for personal use. The write-ups here were for you guys to get a glimpse into my reasoning, and why I put certain players in certain spots. I hope this leads to a lot of good discussion- that's why it was written. I am always looking for advice and criticism, so please do not shy away. You will not hurt my feelings.
Thanks for reading!
8 recs |
197 comments
Comments
Great job
While I may not agree with all of your ranking decisions (especially your assertion that Austin Jackson has “mediocre tools”), I definitely appreciate you taking the time to put together this list and comment on your thought process. And as a follower of the Yankees, I’m a little surprised that some other Yankee pitchers such as Dellin Betances, Zach McAllister, and Jairo Heredia weren’t at least on the just-missed list.
http://mvn.com/milb-yankees/
by lemonjello on Nov 10, 2025 12:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I shouldn't say surprised
as much as I think they belong in the top 121, especially Betances.
http://mvn.com/milb-yankees/
by lemonjello on Nov 10, 2025 12:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yankees
I’m a huge fan of McAllister, actually, but as a whole, those guys just don’t stack up to these other pitchers well. I have a ton (I mean, a ton) of doubts about Betances. Heredia, I don’t know much about, but from what I do know, he’d fall into the same boat as Teheran, who was more highly touted going into the season.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i do like seeing 8 royals mentioned
i am surprised to see mike montgomery as high as he is, though. you must like him.
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
by doublestix on Nov 10, 2025 12:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wow!
I didn’t realize I had that many Royals on the list! So much for the big-market bias, huh?
As for Montgomery, it’s not really so much that I like him as it is that he was the best pitcher yet to be ranked at that point.
I should also say that I am not at all confident in my rankings of Cortes and Wood.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 1:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So...
where is Chris Carter?? I understand how hard it is to put together a list like this, but why does this guy get no love?? He has HUGE power, and has done nothing but hit the hell out of the ball in his minor league career (.901 career MiLB OPS). I may be out of line for saying this, but something tells me that if he was in NYY/NYM/BOS organization he would be a top 50 prospect no questions asked. Again, SoxFaithful, I know how hard it is to pump out such a long list, and that last comment wasn’t directed at you but for a guy who is coming off a 39 HR 100+ RBI season (and a massive post-season), this guys talent goes unrecognized quite a bit on this site.
by JPShark on Nov 10, 2025 12:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Chris Carter
Honestly, I didn’t really forgot about Carter. He was always in the back of my mind, and he probably deserves a spot in the honorable mentions. I think the most telling thing for me is the CAL League chat at BA (by one of BA’s more respected writers, Will Lingo). Lingo ranked him 14th in his own league, behind a couple guys I also passed up.
The chat comments weren’t much more telling. Here’s one of my favorite things to respond with when discussing Carter. From Lingo (emphasis mine): “Both Hunter and Borbon could (quite literally) run circles around Carter in the field, and both could end up as better all-around offensive players.” Lingo also cited Carter’s huge holes in his swing and poor fielding.
As a hitter? He’s top 5 in the minors. All-around player? Eh. I’m unimpressed. He reminds me of Russell Branyan.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 1:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Top 5 hitter in the minors?
This confuses me. If this were true then stick him at DH and he is easily a top 100 prospect.
by groundingout on Nov 10, 2025 3:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Huge holes in his swing
That pitchers at the MLB-level will be able to exploit. I put him at #81, but honestly, I still don’t see it. Like I said, he screams Russell Branyan to me.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 10:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
pitchers at the MLB level might be able to exploit this, luckily for Carter he will be starting in AA next season and has at least a year and a half before even sniffing the big leagues. Most minor league sluggers have high K rates and holes in their swings. Thats what advancing through a minor league system is about, development and improvement. Take a look at guys playing in the big leagues. Aside from a handful of sluggers, most are either shitty in the field or K too much. One thing that Carter has going for him is that he can take a walk as well. It’s not like he’s hitting .260 with a .300 OBP and 200 K’s. His OBP was .361 last season and .383 the year before. This is going to be a broad comparison as all these guys are different types of players but look at how much guys like Maybin and Stanton K, and look at guys like Mat Gamel and Jesus Montero who will never stick at their defensive positions and will be in the same boat as Carter in the future. Again, development and improvement is possible. Your also cherrypicking a quote from one of many baseball minds saying Carter won’t be a good MLB player for various reason’s. I’ve also read comparison’s to Mark McGwire. I’ve also read where Carter likely won’t stick at 3B, but could become adequate at first and his best position is actually RF with a plus arm and good speed for a big guy. I could pick this topic apart all day when compared to other players on this list and things i’ve read about the guy, but like I said I have a feeling if he wasn’t an Oakland prospect opinions might be a little different. BTW, what the hell does a guy have to do to prove himself in the CAL league?? Aside from Carter, guys are always getting disregarded as “legit” prospects because they put up their numbers in the CAL league. In Carter’s case, along with others, I guess it doesn’t matter what they did in other leagues in other seasons.
by JPShark on Nov 10, 2025 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am so confused
By your Cahill/Tillman re-evaluation. I think I’m just mis-understanding something or there were some typos or something.
You said, “I said last time that I was not high on Cahill. His stats are admittedly impressive for an extreme hitters’ league, but he slipped quite a bit after the promotion to AA. You could say "But, he was just 20!”, and I could counter with Chris Tillman, who started the year at AA, at age 20. So, between Tillman and Cahill, I’d definitely take Cahill."
Did you mean that Cahill slipped quite a bit in AA, or was that a typo? He had a 2.19 ERA (granted in 37 IP), which is significantly better than the 3.18 that Tillman had. Or did you mean in terms of peripherals (Cahill’s FIP was 4.05 in AA while Tillman’s was 3.46)? Either way, Cahill’s time in AA was so limited as to raise sample size concerns.
When you get to the age issue, I get even more confused. Tillman and Cahill are the same age. Why is that Tillman began the season at a level higher than Cahill a reason to vote for Cahill over Tillman? Shouldn’t it be the other way around? I really like your list generally, but this is just befuddling me
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 10, 2025 12:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Whoops!
Well, that was fast. It was a consistent typo that somehow carried over to my rankings. I clearly like Tillman over Cahill.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 1:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh!
That explains a lot. The rest of your list is very interesting, though I disagree with some stuff
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 10, 2025 1:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Braves!
Heyward (#3), Hanson (#30), Schafer (#39), Freeman (#51), Hernandez (#75) and Flowers (#98) plus honorable mentions for Rohrbough and Teheran. That’s quantity and quality, right there. I’m surprised that Flowers is so low, while Freeman seems a bit high. Atlanta has a solid farm system, but it’s still quite a ways away.
Here we go again: http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/
by ejruiz on Nov 10, 2025 1:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
man, you destroyed the ranger prospects
besides Smoak, you absolutely owned them… Feliz will be top 15 in nearly every publication. I really dont get your evaluation of Holland, if you look at his numbers, he had one of the best years by a minor lg pitcher. And anyone who saw him while in frisco will tell you he was really, really good.
Also Elvis Andrus out of the top 50? One of the top 2 or 3 SS prospects in the game didnt make the top 60, I think he was top 30 in Last year’s BA and he hit .300 at AA as a 19 yr old.
Great work, but as a rangers fan, i have to be a homer and take offence to some of your rankings.
by blalock84 on Nov 10, 2025 1:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I disagree.
First, Feliz- he very simply does not compare favorably to Chacin and Zimmermann. I laid out that argument very clearly, and I think it’s completely valid. I’m extremely confident in that ranking.
Holland- See my comments elsewhere on this page.
Andrus- That was sort of a universal statement. I am tired of people making excuses for the prototypical young, toolsy, low-stat players. Andrus had a good batting average, sure, but he had nearly no power, his plate discipline was underwhelming, and he had trouble judging when to steal bases. I like Triunfel more than Andrus, if only because Triunfel showed more on an all-around basis.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What?
.350 OBP for a 19 year old in AA, posting a .365-.370 OBP from June on is not that underwhelming. And what 19 year old SS shows solid power? Getting tired of these “excuses” is not a reason to completely ignore these factors. He also was successful stealing bases about 77% of the time. I take it that you also think nothing of his defense.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 10, 2025 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Andrus was ranked 19 in last year's BA publication
after posting a .742 OPS in Bakersfield. This year, he posted a .717 in Frisco and was much better after spending some time on the DL. I don’t understand how you don’t rank him higher.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 10, 2025 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Presumably
he disagrees with BA’s ranking last year too. Not saying I agree, but it’s a defensible position
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 10, 2025 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, but
why point out then how Holland ranks in BA’s Midwest league rankings. I am admittedly not familiar with this RedSoFaithful’s posts, but maybe a better explanation on how he ranked the prospects would help me out. I just see various comments that pretty much contradict each other.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 10, 2025 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I’ve tried to respond honestly to every comment so far, and truthfully I could see the potential for me to contradict myself… I probably have at some point.
That being said, I’m trying to stay consistent with respect to Andrus. Yes, his plate discipline, for a guy who will likely end up being a leadoff hitter (as a ceiling, with a #9 hitter as a floor), is underwhelming. His .350 OBP was extremely average-heavy, while his .290 AVG was coupled with a .357 BABIP. Yes, Andrus’ complete lack of power is a negative for him, when comparable guys have .040 points of SLG on him. Fielding counts for a lot, sure, but that’s the one tool most of these toolsy types have down, anyway.
And, as I specifically said when I talked about Holland’s rank, it came from a guy (Callis) that I really listen to and respect. I did not agree with Andrus’ Top 100 rank last year, at all.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Callis ranked Holland
in the Midwest League and used only the results of the Midwest League to rank him as a prospect. The fact that he jumped two levels to AA and dominated the entire way through should effect your thoughts on him a bit more than one ranking. Here is a quote from Callis even:
Jim Callis: I think that statement is a little extreme—obviously, or I would have ranked Holland higher. Keep in mind that these lists are based to some extent on league context. Holland’s stuff kicked up a notch after he left Clinton, but I rated him based on what he showed in the MWL.
And of course, Beltre ranked number 6 in that league’s rankings, so I guess he deserves to be ahead of Holland too.
Andrus has shown the ability to have great SS defense, great speed, and he can hit. As noted before, if you look at his splits before he got hurt and after he got hurt, he showed significantly more power. He showed that he can improve as pitchers see him more as evidenced by his rising OBP and SLG. Isn’t that exactly the type of thing you want to see out of a 19 year old in his first stint in the Texas League?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 10, 2025 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Holland
Yes, his jump did affect me, which is why he’s ranked ahead of 6 guys that Callis ranked him behind. Seriously, enough about Holland- This is a conservative ranking that I still happen to think is optimistic.
As for Andrus, like I said- he’s right with the other players of that mold. It’s part of my ranking philosophy to keep those guys back further, so if you’re going to quibble over Andrus’ rank, do it within the context of the ranks of other similar players. And I think Andrus is clearly behind those guys.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Samardzija
Honestly, I need to see more from the guy. It is pretty telling that opposing AA managers literally did not understand how he was pitching so well after the promotion. I don’t know, even his time at the majors was fairly shaky command-wise. Let me see another year from him.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I flipped to where you had Brett Anderson listed, then stopped reading
- is utterly ridiculous.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 10, 2025 3:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
What the...
Some weird SBN formatting thing…
Anyway, Number 27 is utterly ridiculous.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 10, 2025 3:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tell me about it.
Anyone who rates Brett Anderson above Derek Holland should have their head examined.
That’s what you meant, right?
Damn this man for having a personal preference when it comes to your team’s prospects!!!
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 10, 2025 3:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brett Anderson is a litmus test for prospects in much the same way that, eh, Adrian Beltre is for MLB players
If you understand why Adrian Beltre is a very good player, you have some idea what you’re talking about. If you don’t, I have better things to do with my time.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 10, 2025 5:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Look
I realize that if you could have it your way, you’d have Cahill, Anderson, Cardenas, Gonzalez, Cunningham, Mazzaro, Simmons, HAR, and Inoa occupying the top 9 spots on this list. As it stands, your team has as good a minor league system as anyone in the game. Saying that Brett Anderson is over any of the guys above him… to me, that’s letting your homer status get in the way.
The three pitchers in front of him at Feliz, Alderson, and Arrieta, and the only one of those three that you could make a case for putting below Anderson is Arrieta.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 9:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
that’s kind of unfair to Paul Thomas, as much as he irritates me at times, he’s not ridiculous about rankings of A’s players that I’ve seen, like say Asfan4ever723 or something.
I do agree that Feliz is ahead of Anderson, but I’m gonna disagree on the other two. Anderson is only 9 months older and has had success in AA, albeit in a small sample. Comparing the numbers for the two in the Cal League, normalized for park and luck(glad to see that used for AJax by the way), Anderson has the advantage in K/9, HR/9, big advantage in GB%, very slight advantage in BB/9, and a difference in FIP of 3.43 to 4.34. Then you factor in Anderson is a lefty who throws in the low-mid 90’s, I think it’s pretty easy to give him the advantage. As I said in an earlier thread, I own Anderson in one fantasy league and Alderson in another. I’d deal Alderson for Anderson in straight up, but wouldn’t make the deal the other direction.
As for Arrieta, I really do like him, but Anderson has pitched just as well in a tougher league while 2 years younger.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Nov 10, 2025 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he isn't a homer
And he’s been making this (very strong) argument for a while about Brett Anderson.
It isn’t just those three, though. Compare Anderson with Cahill, for example. They’re the same age and spent roughly the same amount of time at A+ and AA ball. In A+, Cahill struck out slightly more than Anderson did (10.6 to 9.7), but also walked slightly more than Anderson (3.2 to 2.2). Cahill’s ERA was more than a point less than Anderson’s, but his FIP was only slightly less (3.22 to 3.40). In their time in AA, Cahill’s ERA was again better, but he struck out significantly less batters than Anderson did (8.0 to 11.0) and walked much more (4.6 to 2.6), albeit in barely 30 IP apiece. In FIP, Anderson now beat Cahill, 3.12 to 4.05.
In terms of stuff, you can argue that Cahill’s is better, but then again Anderson has pretty good stuff and excellent control for a lefty. Overall, there’s a pretty decent case to be made that Cahill is better than Anderson, but I don’t think it’s 18 slots better
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 10, 2025 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, I apologize
That was probably a little rude and unnecessary of me. I did take a little offense to him implying that I didn’t know what I was talking about, and I shouldn’t have. I have seen him post in the past, and he’s very knowledgeable, and I do respect his opinion. So, I apologize to him.
I am also becoming convinced in Anderson’s talent. I still prefer Alderson’s stuff to his, but I think I can justify swapping Anderson and Arrieta.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 11:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it's a very big deal
I, personally, think Anderson’s a bit low in this ranking, but I can see the counter-argument. I think he gets annoyed that people seem to simply assume that Anderson isn’t a very good prospect when the stats disagree
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 10, 2025 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's all well and good
But #27 is still a “very good” prospect. When you think about it, the entire nature of prospect ranking is splitting hairs.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what makes it fun
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 10, 2025 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, guys... this argument has gotten SO tired for me
I should just have a Brett Anderson defense ready on autotext or something…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 10, 2025 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Unfair to Paul Thomas
Yep, he’s a pompous ass, but he’s not overly partisan with A’s prospects.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 10, 2025 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Forgot to say
good list, thanks for the time and effort and for sharing it with us.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Nov 10, 2025 10:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The A's have a lot of top 100 talent, but most of it is in the back 50...
Here’s how I have it broken down:
Anderson— top 5-10
Cahill— immediately behind Anderson
Carter— around #40
Cunningham— 50-60
Cardenas— 60-70
Doolittle— 60-70
Gonzalez— 70-90
Simmons— 70-90
Mazzaro— 70-90
Sam Demel might get on at the very end there somewhere, too— I’m pretty high on him.
Rodriguez and Inoa have no business being anywhere near a top 100 prospects list.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 10, 2025 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sean Doolittle?
I’d probably move Simmons up to the 60-70 area, and take Doolittle off the top-100 entirely. I’m also less anti-HAR than you, though I think if he makes it he should be at the very back end of a top-100. Otherwise, I basically agree
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 10, 2025 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sean Doolittle should end up somewhere on the spectrum
between Justin Morneau and Doug Mientkiewicz, with a Lyle Overbay-type career being the most likely. Since I like Lyle Overbay a lot, that’s enough to land him pretty high up on my list.
And not to belabor the point, but Doolittle does have 29 HR (and 77 total XBH) and counting this season in 161 games.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 10, 2025 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a 21 yo 1B
who did very well in A+ ball, but got knocked around in AA. Granted, it was only 201 ABs - on the other hand, it was 201 ABs. I see your argument that he good be a solid 1B, but he’s still at least 2 or 3 years away, with little potential to be significantly more than just a good 1B. I see your point, though
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 10, 2025 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WOW
Doolittle’s floor is a league average 1B for 10+ years and his ceiling is a one or two time AL MVP? And you’re not a homer? Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Nov 11, 2025 12:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, there's probably some chance he never makes the majors
but that’s true of any prospect…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2025 1:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow you and I really have very different opinions on A's prospects
I’d put Henry Rodriguez above Simmons and Mazzaro easily. Simmons is the one with no business on any Top 100. I’d even take Leon over him. I’m not a Doolittle guy either. I’d take Sulentic over him. Carter and Cunningham are too high as well.
In fact, other than Cahill and Anderson the A’s don’t have any outstanding prospects in my view, with Carter, Cunningham, Rodriguez, and Mazzaro somewhere in the 60-130 range. I’m happy the rest of the world thinks more highly of them than I do though.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2025 9:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Umm....
Cardenas? Where would you slot him then?
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Nov 11, 2025 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I forgot about him, but the lack of power and fielding issues
at 2B/SS make me not love him as much as other people seem to. I guess a Howie Kendrick type at 3B isn’t terrible.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2025 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I cannot fathom the argument for taking Matt Sulentic over Sean Doolittle
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2025 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably hyperbole, since I don't really like either one.
Doolittle’s going to have to be good for more than half a season in the Cal League before I’m on the bandwagon. At least Sulentic is a mediocre hitting OF, rather than 1B.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2025 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Simmons has no business on a top 100 list?
I must have subconsciously become a major Simmons homer, because I always end up defending him. The guy was a 21 year old that mowed down the Texas League, while dealing with a medical condition for a good chunk of the first half of the season. He can throw 4 pitches for strikes, and supposedly is able to put his 90ish MPH fastball exactly where he wants it within the zone. He won’t be a Tim Lincecum, but there’s an extremely likely chance he’ll be Scott Baker or Kevin Slowey.
For contrast, Rodriguez is only 6 months younger than Simmons, and at the same level this season walked more guys than he struck out while serving as a RP. 100 MPH heaters are great and all, but they’re pretty useless when you can’t trust the guy to get through a single inning. Also, I’ve heard that he’s a major injury risk based on his mechanics.
by jibs on Nov 11, 2025 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can see Simmons becoming a consistent 95-100 ERA+
guy in the majors. I have a hard time seeing him ever being more than a 110 ERA+ guy even in the best case scenario. I’m really squinting here.
I’m in love with Henry Rodriguez. It’s bordering on the irrational. I love strikeouts in minor league pitchers. I have a romantic notion that if you can strike people out in the minors you have all-star potential. If you can’t, you don’t. Simplistic perhaps, but I’m a simple, upside-oriented guy. I love Henry’s 27.5% K-rate this year. I also love Fautino’s 31.8% from 2007 but that’s another story.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2025 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't HAB being prepared as a reliever?
Just letting you know. He has a fastball, and one hell of one at that, but he is no better than say, Joel Zumaya. As for your notion of
“I have a romantic notion that if you can strike people out in the minors you have all-star potential. If you can’t, you don’t.”
Well… it’s wrong, but whatever floats your boat.
by Daniel Berlyn on Nov 12, 2025 1:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is there some evidence that strikeout rate isn't the best
indicator of future success for starting pitcher prospects? Can you point me to it?
As for Rodriguez not being better than Zumaya, that’s not a bad thing. Zumaya had a heckuva 2005 season at Age 20 in AA and AAA. Rodriguez doesn’t have that kind of minor league track record. If Zumaya had the durability to remain a starter you’d have an excellent major league pitcher.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2025 4:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the best maybe
But not the only
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 12, 2025 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So, if a starter prospect has an outstanding K-rate
then should he not get consideration for a Top 100 prospect list? And then add the scouting reports of a plus plus fastball and potentially plus change and don’t you get a pretty good prospect? Sure the control sucks, that’s why he’s not Top 50. But toward the bottom of the Top 100 is there not an argument for someone of that profile over guys like Simmons who don’t have any plus plus pitches and don’t have the K-rate?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 13, 2025 1:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's not a starter prospect.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 13, 2025 3:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Besides the fact that many "All-Star" caliber pitchers don't rely on the strikeout
it’s just wrong what you’re saying, looking at history, to say that a pitcher can’t be above average or great without good stuff. So the kid can throw the ball by A+ hitters. That’s about all he’s done so far. And he isn’t even groomed to be a starter, so I don’t see how he’s going to be a great pitcher.
As for Zumaya, his style is what keeps him from being a starter. What makes him so good is what limits him, so it isn’t fair to say he could have been excellent if he was a starting pitcher. Adam Dunn would be an all time great if he didn’t strike out so much… see what I’m trying to get at?
Limiting walks and keeping the ball on the ground is usually a good indicator of a good starting pitcher. A guy with great stuff is awesome, but if he doesn’t have to control, then it might be gone by the time he does have it.
by Daniel Berlyn on Nov 12, 2025 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think what you may be getting at is that Zumaya
has a max effort delivery. I’m not aware that Rodriguez has that. I’ve not seen him much so my info is mostly second hand, but I’ve not heard that about him either. Did I miss your point?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 13, 2025 1:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BTW I've not heard about the injury risk. Can you elaborate?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2025 12:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly I can't remember where I read it
It seems like it was a Jim Callis or Keith Law chat, where they mentioned that the As should just stick him in their major league bullpen now to at least get some use out of his stuff before his arm blows out. So, not at all scientific evidence, but the notion stuck in my brain for some reason.
by jibs on Nov 12, 2025 9:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
You have two A’s pitchers in the top 10 and you’re not a homer? Really? So how many does it take to be a homer? :) Personally, I’d only have 1 or 2 pitchers in my top 20 due to the inherent fragility & unpredictability of pitchers and my own biases.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Nov 11, 2025 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think people are overlooking the main point of this list with regards to the original point
Brett Anderson is a better prospect than Trevor Cahill. I don’t know enough about the systems of the other teams to criticize their placement among them, but I think having Cahill 18 spots ahead of Anderson is ridiculous.
by thejd44 on Nov 15, 2025 3:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good list.
Obviously I have some differences of opinion regarding certain guys, but it’s a prospect list.
Thanks for posting.
Nice job.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 10, 2025 3:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pablo Sandoval old for his level
Dude he was 21 in AA this year.
by Bravesin07 on Nov 10, 2025 4:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
Go me. I spent about 6 hours straight doing just those write-ups last night- a mistake was bound to be made. :-)
Thanks for the catch, I will fix it.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 9:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, forgot to mention
They’re not wrong, just neutralized for park and luck, per minorleaguesplits.com.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 9:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
on f-martinez you write
“At what point does F-Mart’s lack of production stop being excused as a product of his young age? My vote is for "now”. "
I would write, in response: “at what point do people actually look at statistics rather than repeating cliches?”
At age 19 in AA (and in a tough hitting environment), F Mart started the season with a .644 OPS in April. From May to September, his OPS was in the mid-800s (.840 to .860 range, it’s been cited here several times and I’m too lazy to look it up right now). His monthly OPSs were as follows:
-May: .928
-June: 1248
-July: .708
-August: .821 (and .900 in one game in September).
In the Dominican Winter Lg his OPS is 1.014.
So he has been producing, as simple as that.
That said, well put together list and appreciated its clean formatting. Everyone will disagree with certain rankings, and F-Mart is just one that pops out at me (agree with Braves on Sandoval — in fact he was 21 for most of the year at AA, and turned 22 in mid-August), but well done overall.
by scooter on Nov 10, 2025 8:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
FMart is simply not consistent...
Scooter wrote:
"His monthly OPSs were as follows:
-May: .928
-June: 1248
-July: .708
-August: .821 (and .900 in one game in September).
In the Dominican Winter Lg his OPS is 1.014.
So he has been producing, as simple as that."
His April OPS was a horrible .644 and a .708 July isn’t producing. An .821 OPS in August is decent. So he had 2 bad months (April & July), 2 good months (May & June) and 1 decent month (August). That’s not production, it’s inconsistency. As for the Dominican Winter League, Diory Hernandez, the light hitting Braves SS prospect has an OPS of 1.095 so that’s what stats from the DWL mean.
by Looneyt0on on Nov 10, 2025 9:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
An .821 OPS
for a 19 year old in AA is just decent? Granted we’re dealing with individual months, but he certainly had a very solid end of year
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 10, 2025 11:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It should also be noted
That despite the fact that it was his third year in AA, he was still the youngest player in the league this season. Producing those numbers as the youngest guy around in AA is a very credible performance.
by Ophidian on Nov 10, 2025 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, an .821 OPS is just decent when...
he’s already put up .928 and 1.248 a couple months before that. I wouldn’t call his end of the year very solid, I ’d call it tailing off after a very good first 2 months.
by Looneyt0on on Nov 12, 2025 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The guy's a 19 year old
who had a .770 OPS in AA over the entire year. When Adam Jones was 19, he had a .865 OPS in A+ ball and a .823 OPS in his last 228 ABs in AA. You can argue that Martinez isn’t as good as Jones (and I’d agree), but if you think Jones is an excellent prospect, then Martinez isn’t a terrible one
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 12, 2025 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know he's 19 and...
I know he put up an .770 OPS last year. I never said he was a terrible prospect at all, just that he’s inconsistent. At 19, he’s not going to be consistent at AA. He tailed off the last 2 months, it could be after he returned from the hamstring injury, I’m not sure. To me, he hasnt put up the stats worthy of a top 25-50 prospect ranking even taking into account age. He has the makings of an all star assuming he continues to improve and the Mets rushing him through the minors doesn’t screw him up.
by Looneyt0on on Nov 12, 2025 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Confusing
By my calculation, his OPS over the last two months were roughly .770, which means that his OPS over the first four months was also roughly .770. This is tailing off? This is inconsistency?
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 12, 2025 7:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, inconsistency.
April .644
May: .928
June: 1248
July: .708
August: .821
he started off very slow, got hurt, came back ridiculously hot and then cooled off. That’s inconsistency. I could argue that since his May/June OPS were a combined 60 at bats that he really didn’t have any full months that were great. Going from .928 to 1.248 to .708 and .821 isn’t tailing off? I must have missed something.
by Looneyt0on on Nov 12, 2025 8:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Injuries....
I think all of the criticism of Martinez is fair, but the issue is becoming less about age than it it is about staying on the field. All of that other stuff is impossible to answer when you can’t put 300 AB’s together without spending a month on the DL. I really don’t care what level he plays at in 2009, be it AA or AAA, just do it for a year (or even three months) already. He needs a healthy run in the worst way…
by MetfanBren on Nov 11, 2025 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Um
I agree with your final point, but your particulars are mis-leading. In May and June combined, he put up those terrific numbers over a total of 60 ABs (this is when he got injured). What’s more telling is his total stats, that he had a .770 OPS in AA at 19 when few 19 years old are playing higher than A ball.
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 12, 2025 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
tillman
he did not dominate. He struck out a lot of guys, but he did npt pitch late into games. You harp on Hanson’s walk totals but not tillmans. Tillman is younger.
Holland, you take one Manuel quote, which was really that Perez MIGHT end up as the better prospect, not that he is better.
I don’t quibble necessarily with the ranks. I might have ranked those guys differently, but the comments seemed to suggest some blind spots.
And I think Snider is a bit overrated.
by wobatus on Nov 10, 2025 8:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Tillman/Holland/Snider
I did mention Tillman’s walk rate, and I also justified it. I usually do not put so much emphasis on monthly splits save for rare cases, but this is one that I’m very interested in. In August, Tillman not only refined his control, as I mentioned, but he addressed your other complaint on him, going 6 innings deep in all but one start (when he went 5 IP). He just showed, in that month, such a legitimate and clear advancement that I am maybe overemphasizing it. Which is my fault. But, for a guy to be in AA at 20, and showing such an incredible progression as the season wore on- I am just very, very high on him. I have faith that he will really refine his control in 2009.
Holland- Let me say that I included that quote for emphasis, but I focused much more on that Midwest League ranking. It was done by one of the single most respected guys in the business, and have very few quibbles with it. For Callis to say in the chat that a Feliz/Holland comparison would be “a little extreme”, I don’t know. I would caution everyone here to beware of a crash in 2009. He has 9 very, very, otherworldly games to close out the season. Once he shows that he can do it over a full season, and that the velocity he picked up out of nowhere isn’t flukish, I’ll upgrade him.
Why do you say that Snider is overrated? I don’t see how he could go any less than top 5, so in order for him to be overrated, people would have to be ranking him 1st or 2nd, IMO. He’s certainly a better bet/bat than Maybin or Fowler, I think.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 9:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think sndier is overrated in general
People took the small sample size in majors and AAA. I look more at his AA line, and the strikeouts. But Snider is probably my blindspot. :)
BTW, the league rankings in BA are based on abit of a hodgepodge criteria it seems. holland did better overall, he suffers in any particular league comparison because he moved a lot.
But if you do emphasize BA’s ratings, look at california League. Carlos Santana was number 2. And Alderson was behind Anderson. Not saying that is right or wrong. But you have santana well below those guys.
Oops, though, I see you are emphasizing callis’s take, and I don’t know who did the BA cal leagfue list off the top of my head.
Overall, good work on your part and thanks for sharing.
by wobatus on Nov 10, 2025 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Holland:
Pitched really well at Bakersfield, but owned AA at Frisco:
3-0 in 4 starts with a 0.69 ERA, 0.77 WHIP, 29 k in 26 innings with 14 hits and 6 walks
He’s a lefty that throws upper 90’s and can pitch deep into games. He’s gotten better at every level, and everyone says he has ridiculous confidence.
Appreciate the list nonetheless.
by BuckyB on Nov 10, 2025 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
holland also was fantastic in the AA playoffs
3 really good outings.
by wobatus on Nov 10, 2025 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know it's only 7 starts
but it’s hard to imagine a better 7 starts than what he put together in AA. I think he’s probably a top-25 prospect
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 10, 2025 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Perez over Holland comment
Manuel said that because he thinks Perez might be that good, not because Holland is not that impressive. Here’s an interview Mike Hindman (Dallas Morning News blog) had with Rangers minor league pitching coordinator Rick Adair. Lots of good quotes/info about the Rangers pitching prospects and, suffice it to say, Adair is very impressed with Holland’s makeup, approach and mechanics.
http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/10/q-a-with-rick-adair.html
Great rankings, enjoyed the read.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 10, 2025 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
here is the exact Manuel quote too:
Greg, TX: Who is the best left handed pitcher on the Rangers farm not named Derek Holland?
SportsNation John Manuel: It might be Martin Perez even INCLUDING Derek Holland. I got a Johan Santana comp on Perez from a scout in the Northwest the other day, he sounds extremely exciting.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 10, 2025 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great list..
its good to see some names that arent on everyones top 100..Borbon, Rondon, Gindl.
by NYSOX on Nov 10, 2025 8:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Borbon/Rondon/Gindl
Those are three guys that I am really very high on. I loved looking at Borbon vs. Ellsbury, and it really is a fascinating competition. If Borbon had plate discipline, he’d make most peoples’ top 10s. Rondon, like I said, he’s a guy I’ve been personally following for a while now. I like him a lot, and I think his season was good enough to at least get him a spot in the last 20.
Gindl is severely underrated. He’s toolsy, and he put up some pretty good stats this year. He’s a tick behind Reddick in my mind- maybe because I’m a Red Sox fan, I don’t know? ;-)
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 9:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Todd Frazier
He is not even a “just missed”?
by Snake the Jake on Nov 10, 2025 9:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Frazier
You’re bound to miss some guys completely, and Frazier falls under that category for me.
As far as an actual personal evaluation- I like his bat, but if I thought he could stay at SS, he’d make the top 75. As a 3B or OF, he’s nothing more than a just missed. Let me put it this way- if presented with the two, I would have honest-to-God trouble choosing between Frazier and Darin Holcomb, though Frazier would likely end up being my choice.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sandoval
he had too many at bats last year to qualify as a prospect.
I’m a bit surprised that you put Posey below Smoak… I guess people must be really high on Smoak’s bat.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on Nov 10, 2025 9:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sandoval
Is it at all clear yet that I didn’t focus on him enough? Fixing it now.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL... no worries
I kind of wish he still qualified so that the Giants’ system could look that much spiffier.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on Nov 10, 2025 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tillman vs Cahill
Cahill is an extreme GB pitcher, Tillman is a FB pitcher. IMO that makes a HUGE difference when comparing the two on other measures. The fact is, if he gets as man grounders as he does, Cahill doesn’t need to be as dominant (K’s and BB wise) than Tillman would have to be to be successful. Personally, I think Cahill is the better prospect and he’s the better prospect by a good margin. I’d actually consider Chacin ahead of Tillman too for the same reason … periph’s are at least comparable, but GB rate for Chacin is well above average.
by jayjay on Nov 10, 2025 9:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this
I have Chacin just ahead of Tillman, and it was extremely close. Cahill is ahead by a good bit though I think.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Nov 10, 2025 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Subjective opinion
Michael Main is severely undervalued.
BTiA's Top 25
by jparks77 on Nov 10, 2025 9:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ya,
and Borbon ahead of Maxram, crazy.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 10, 2025 10:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
Borbon is a better all-around player than Ramirez, IMO. Ramirez still doesn’t have a position, and I honestly do not think that his bat is good enough to carry him as an everyday DH in the majors.
As for Main, eh. He’s a guy who has only logged ~20 professional starts, and the best IP/GS he’s had at a level is 4.51. I need to see more from him before I can justify even mentioning him.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How many starts does Aumont have?
BTiA's Top 25
by jparks77 on Nov 10, 2025 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Touche
But, I think this is where I would defer to Jim Callis.
Matt from Ft Worth asks:
Where is Michael Main? He wasn’t in the NW League top 20 and not in the Midwest top 20? What gives?
Jim Callis: He didn’t pitch enough innings to qualify for either league. Like many high school pitchers in their first full season, Main saw his stuff dip a little bit. His fastball sat around 91 mph and his curveball was average, though his changeup was better than anticipated. He’s still a quality prospect.
Meanwhile, Callis sounded much, much more optimistic about Aumont. From the same chat:
Allen D. from Burien WA asks:
How serious are the injury concerns with Phillipe Aumont? On a strictly potential basis, where does he rank among the top pitching prospects?
Jim Callis: Shutting him down was more a precaution than a red flag. Aumont’s potential ranks with just about any pitcher’s in the minors—he has that much upside.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Main
I would suggest you do a little more digging on Main. I drew the same conclusions before other info came to light. I think there’s some discussion on this in my top 50 pitching prospects if not jparks can probably provide a link from LSB. Forgive me for being ultra lazy this morning.
I love Aumont’s potential but Main should be considered. I’ll be watching him closely next year.
Overall, great job. These lists are very difficult to put together. Thanks!
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Nov 10, 2025 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Screw it.
I went ahead and added him to the Just Missed, taking out the last guy on my personal ranking, Mister Inoa.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree on Aumont's upside
I just also love Main. I enjoyed the list. Good work.
BTiA's Top 25
by jparks77 on Nov 10, 2025 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Padres prospects
I like Blanks a lil more than 46, but that’s nit-picking. I’m with you on Decker but it wouldn’t bother me to have him off the list (I’d definitely have Cedric in front of Decker) - he’ll move up this list in coming yearts. But I was pretty surprised Kellen Kulbacki wasn’t on the list.
by pffriberg on Nov 10, 2025 9:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
I just added kulbacki to the Just Missed- that was an oversight. I am really, really, really high on Decker. He reminds me of Youkilis, in the OF, with more power potential. I will bet on that player every day of the week.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 10:15 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I have absolutely no problem with a single ranking here.
…because it’s your list.
I think you did a great job putting a lot of work into this and justifying the positions you took.
Kudos!
by parish on Nov 10, 2025 12:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Rangers fans questions:
1. Why does Feliz have durability issues?
2. If BA put Holland in their top 20, does that change your opinion?
3. Ramirez’s bat was one of the best in the Texas League. If his bat isn’t strong enough to DH or at least make up for not being that strong defensively at any position.
4. Why is Engel Beltre ranked that high? From the rest of your rankings, it looks like you don’t like young toolsy players without good stats to back up their tools. I thought that was the reason you ranked Andrus so low. Beltre posted a lower OPS against much worse competition with only about a year’s worth of difference in their age.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 10, 2025 12:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Also
i agree that Engel kind of surprised me.
and 5) Is Taylor Teagarden not eligible? He only had 47 at-bats, so he’s still a rookie, I think. 1205 OPS is tough to ignore when he is only supposed to be known for his defense.
by BuckyB on Nov 10, 2025 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Another Rangers fans question/observation
You point to Feliz’s innings per start stat as a key reason you dropped him. For your information that was by design. The previous two seasons combined he had a total of 70 innings of pro ball. This year he jumped to 120 innings. The Rangers decided with about 6 weeks to go in the season to in effect shut him down. They didn’t completely but they did severly monitor his pitch counts and innings totals sometimes having him on 60 pitch limits.
He is a legit top 10 prospect in all of baseball.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 10, 2025 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Legit and important point
about the innings, but I still might hesitate to make him a top 10 prospect in all of baseball unless I hear more positives about his secondary stuff.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 10, 2025 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
his secondary stuff isn't bad
from what I’ve read. The problem is more that he is tipping his pitches.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 10, 2025 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with his curve
is that his arm slot is inconsistent and it prevents him from staying on top of the pitch.
BTiA's Top 25
by jparks77 on Nov 10, 2025 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
But what that tells me, is that the Rangers are worried about his durability and are having to take time to stretch him out. Look, maybe they’re just doing it to protect him, but that is not a positive for him as a prospect- how are we to know how he’ll hold up over a 180-200 inning season? There’s no way of knowing that. I’m not saying that he needs 180 innings right now, because most prospects don’t get to that point until the majors, but he’s definitely worrying me with regards to his durability.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That makes no sense
The Rangers have a guy who can effortlessly throw 100 mph at the age of 20 and who has about 70 innings of pro ball in his career. He was on pace to double that in one season. The Rangers wanted to play it safe and not rush the guy or risk hurting his arm.
How will he hold up over a 180-200 inning season? Probably how he holds up over a 130 inning season if the Rangers continue to gradually stretch out his arm more. What pitcher under the age of 21 has been able to go from 40-50 innings a season to 180 innings in one year?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 10, 2025 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Feliz
He didn’t go from 70 to 120 in one year. He went from 30 in 06 to 45 in 07 to 120 in 08. That is a severe jump and to see his performance not dip as a result is a very very good sign. As has been noted his delivery is effortless. The injury risks are as minimal as can be imagined. If you feel that the Rangers being cautious on a guy who almost tripled his innings pitched from one year to the next then I don’t know what to say other than that is a very bad reason to drop a guy.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 10, 2025 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I interpreted if differently
Seemed to me that RedSoxF wasn’t saying the short outings were due to risk from a specific injury, so much as being proactive. In which case, the drawback is that - through no fault of his own - he simply hasn’t shown the ability to get through a lineup 3 times as much as a lot of other guys have. if you have two guys who you rank fairly similarly, it does make some sense to give the nod to the guy who you feel has done it over a little more reps.
by siddfynch on Nov 10, 2025 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Feliz hasn't just been going 5 innings and out
The IP limit and pitch limit were mainly just in his time in Frisco. where he was still able to have a few 6 inning games in which he left the game while at least facing some hitters 3 times.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 10, 2025 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, he has
That’s exactly what he’s been doing! He made 27 starts this year, and made it into the 6th inning 6 times, only 2 of those times coming at AA. He’s made it into the 7th once.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 7:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
pitch counts
They’re being careful and smart.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 10, 2025 11:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Feliz
The Rangers had a kid who had all of 45 innings in 2007 who they were going to trot out there in a full season league from day 1 of 2008. Even if they were going to allow him to pitch 150% more innings than the previous year (which would have been roughly 110-115) over the course of a full season that would only be 5 innings per start. So either they let the guy go out and go full bore for about 2/3 of the season and then shut him down completely (which gets people talking about his stamina and durability) or they closely monitor his pitches and innings throughout the season (which leads people to talking about his stamina and durability).
As a Ranger fan I am happy they let him pitch the entire season even if it meant shorter outtings. But even by limiting his innings he managed to pitch long enough and well enough to get 10 wins on the season. I would say that is pretty damn impressive.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 11, 2025 12:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
1.) Check the other comment I just made below this. His pitch counts, his lack of ability to go deep into games… I’m unconvinced.
2.) No, not necessarily. I should further clarify this- it wasn’t the raw ranking that had me disappointed in Holland, it was the reason behind the ranking, and the reasoning they used in the following chat. If Callis had ranked Holland higher and justified it, then yes, I’d probably have moved Holland slightly higher.
3.) That was more of a hunch on my part. I don’t think his bat will fully develop to the point where teams are going to want to use a DH spot on him. I think he’ll max out at 20-homer power, but, I mean… Here’s a guy who has never posted a BABIP under .350. What will he do when that happens? It’s a small sample size, but look at how his stats dropped off after being pushed to AAA and the majors. It’s not like he was obscenely young for either level… I mean, it’s a hunch on my part. I’m worried about him, though.
4.) You look at the Beltre, though, and he is still distinctly at the back of the toolsy player group, coming in behind FMart, Triunfel, Andrus, etc. He is also just ahead of Wilmer Flores… It seems like a very good spot for him, I think.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to beat the ranger related discussion to death
but where is taylor teagarden? I really have no qualms with your list and it is excellent and well thought out, but like you said you are bound to miss a guy here or there and I think this is a big one. I should note that this has little to do with his showing in the majors this year (too small of a sample size) and more to do with the surprising amount of catchers on this list. IMO he ranks only behind wieters, with posey a possibility (only because of his lack of playing time).
Also I second the Main questioning. I am very much a fan and am pretty confident I can remove bias when saying he belongs somewhere on this list. Dude is ridiculous in all facets of the game, if given the necessary playing time he could most likely make the list as a CF as he could have been drafted in the first round as one if he weren’t such a natural pitcher.
I'm sorry my parents never had me sarcamsized.
by rchawk12 on Nov 10, 2025 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Teagarden
I didn’t miss him- I deliberately left him out. Yes, there are a lot of catchers on this list, and going into the year, you’re right- he’d probably be only behind Wieters. But- his stock plummeted for me in AAA. I actually owned him in a league going into the season, so I followed him closely before trading him for Michael Saunders. I really, really like Teagarden’s skill set, but it really abandoned him for a long time this season.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And here I disagree with you
His terrible performance in AA and AAA was largely due to a terrible BABIP. He still showed very solid power, particularly for a catcher, and was walking plenty. His BABIP, however, was .235 in AA and .288 in AAA. If he can keep his Ks down, then he seems like a very good defensive catcher with an OPS close to .800, and possible significantly higher
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 10, 2025 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a big believer in Teagarden's bat
but he was also hurt for most of his time in AA fwiw
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 10, 2025 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you're going that route, you could argue for Landon Powell too...
Same deal— low BABIP, hurt most of the season, good secondary skills.
No, I’m not suggesting Landon Powell should be a top 100 prospect.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 10, 2025 7:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he is going that route
in conjunction with his ML stats. Teagarden has shown a surprising and most likely unsustainable bat and all levels minus AAA at one point or another. The wrist injury at the beginning of the year slowed him down considerably yes, but all the while his game calling skills stood out. As a ranger fan that was always the one knock on pudge and it is almost as exciting as having a receiver with his ability and IQ as it is to have all these high ceiling arms in the pipeline.
It doesn’t show up on the stat sheet, but in addition to his power, plate discipline (he will strike out a bit, but take a lot of walks as well) and his plus defense/arm, he caught a perfect game in the minors and two shutouts in the majors (with last seasons pitching staff, that is quite an accomplishment). No ranger fan can forget the 1-0 game he caught right after getting called up in which he called a great game and hit the game winning home run. He is not the next Joe Mauer for sure, but he has a couple of future All Star appearances in him in the future.
I'm sorry my parents never had me sarcamsized.
by rchawk12 on Nov 10, 2025 7:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For What It's Worth:
The Rangers value Teagarden WAY higher than Max Ramirez, and the other teams around the league (Boston for instance) do as well.
by BuckyB on Nov 10, 2025 11:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Teagarden's injury
People are either forgetting or unaware that Teagarden had a wrist injury in the spring that affected his swing early in the season. He’ll be fine, a league average bat (for a catcher) with plus defense.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 10, 2025 11:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
On Ramirez
since we are talking about the other players in other parts of this thread.
Ramirez had a total of 87 ABs in AAA and the Majors and while in the Majors, never actually got consistent playing time as well as being tried at first base a couple of times. There isn’t really anything you cant take from that sample.
And do you not think that his high BABIP is due to his high LD rate? He was probably getting a bit lucky, but you are still looking at a hitter who was easily one of the best in the Texas League.
I just don’t understand the toolsy player part of your rankings. It seems like you just don’t believe in any player who is considered to have great tools despite their age and actual stats. There should be a bigger difference between where Andrus and Beltre rank.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 10, 2025 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ramirez's BABIP
Yeah, it probably has something to do with his LD%, but at the same time, there’s gotta be some level of luck involved. Like I said, his ranking is more hunch than anything else. Maybe it’s not reasonable… In fact, it probably isn’t. But, what’s a prospect list without hunches?
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So knock his batting average down
Even if he’d have a .300 batting average, his OPS in AA would still have come close to a 1.000. It’s possible his power will revert to pre-2008 levels, but 17 homers in 243 ABs seems awfully impressive to me
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 10, 2025 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Your assessment of Feliz is wrong and hypocritical comparted to your love for Tillman.
His low innings per start was a result of the Rangers not wanting to over work such a young arm. He will probably pitch around 165 innings next year and then be ready for 200 the year after that. Not to mention Tillman had 138 ip in 28 starts versus 127 in 27 starts for Feliz. Both are under 5 innings per start. Also Feliz only had 51 walks in 127 innings and Tillman had 66 in 138. Plus Feliz has a dominant pitch where as Tillman does not. So I would say, if you switch the two, your list would be pretty good.
by tt68 on Nov 10, 2025 1:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Switch the two?
If anything, I’d just move Tillman down to criticize them both equally. But switching the two? Eh, that’s out of the question, I think.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sample size
You’re right that Tillman and Feliz seem pretty comparable, but Tillman seems distinctly better. They’re the same age, and his AA stats are roughly comparable with Tillman’s (Tillman’s K rate was slightly higher, his BB rate was slightly lower, though his ERA and FIP were slightly worse than Feliz’s). But Feliz did this for only 45 IP, after spending most of the year pitching in A ball, while Tillman kept this up for an entire season. Furthermore, Tillman kept on getting better; with the exception of a weirdly bad July (was he hurt?), his K and BB rates improved each month, until in August he had an ERA of 1.81 with 51 Ks and only 11 walks in 35 IP. That’s significantly more impressive than Feliz in his first go-around. I can buy the argument that Feliz should be moved up, but it seems like Tillman deserves to be higher
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 10, 2025 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My point is that his numbers are comparable...but everything I have read or heard
about the two points to the scouts liking Feliz better. He has legitimate 95+ heat. Tillman is most likely to rest in the low 90’s.
I guess we will see how next year goes, but I think Feliz will significantly out perform Tillman.
by tt68 on Nov 11, 2025 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
But pitching isn’t only a matter of fastballs. Tillman’s breaking ball is better than Feliz’s. I think Feliz is a terrific prospect, but I think Tillman is a touch better
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 11, 2025 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pablo Sandoval (and unsolicited commentary)
Thanks for the post… I didn’t have time to visit the site over the weekend so missed the original version of the list. Out of curiosity, where did you have Sandoval ranked? I am very psyched for the Giants outlook within the next 2-3 years.
By the way, as a rabid baseball fan but not a ‘scout’ by any stretch, I find it humorous and periodically maddening that people spend time and energy BLASTING someone for posting their opinions on a site that is just that: a collection of various opinions based on statistical analyses, personal observations, and unavoidable home-team bias (however slight that may be).
Seriously people, be grateful such a community exists, and stop whining.
Giants: World Series Champions...in 2011.
by Giants_Junkie on Nov 10, 2025 2:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
Sandoval ranked at #74, I think. Maybe #75, I don’t remember…
I don’t take offense to much here, but it’s refreshing to get comments like this :-)
I’m also very excited to see what the Giants can cook up (assuming Sabean doesn’t trade everyone for Jose Guillen or something). They have a lot of good, young players. Schierholtz would have made the list in the 80-90 range had he been eligible.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So we're just supposed to accept everybody's posts as opinions
Wee! Everybody gets a trophy!
If it’s a community for discussion and one person feels another is wrong, they absolutely should discuss that. If somebody is going to post their opinions, they’re opening themselves up to criticism. RedSoxFaithful is doing a great job of explaining his positions.
This place (and every other similar place) would be disgustingly boring if somebody posted something and four people said “awesome!”
And nobody is “blasting” anybody. They may criticize an opinion that is perceived as ill-informed, biased, etc., but nobody went and talked about anybody’s mama.
by thejd44 on Nov 15, 2025 4:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
RedSoxFaithful
I have a lot of respect for people that post these lists it takes a lot of work and time plus if you have any player that you don’t have rated at the consensus of the group you get bashed for it.
1941 .406
by FrozenTed9 on Nov 10, 2025 3:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Great job
There is a noticable lack of extreme bias toward your team. Great work on the list. But as a Giants fan I’d like to know what Nick Noonan’s done to merrit a spot in the top 100? Good speed and contact ability, and he’s also young, but still, he hasn’t done anything impressive yet. I wasn’t expecting anyone besides Giants fans to be high on him at all.
by boonitez on Nov 10, 2025 4:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Basically, you got it.
I like his speed, his bat, and the idea that he can actually stay at 2B. That automatically makes him one of the best prospects at his position.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Noonan
He’s certainly a sleeper. If he puts up an 825 OPS this year at a suitable ARL, with those tools, I think you can expect him to start moving up people’s boards.
by siddfynch on Nov 10, 2025 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Grand Salome
Angel may be short, but he is far from fat. The kid is as chiseled as a body builder! My guess is his BMI would compare favorably with most middle infielders (and no jokes about Ron Belly-lard. Also, the kid led the Southern League in hitting. Not to detract from your ranking, which I would say is decently fair, given his defensive questions (he has but one position in the NL he can play), but since he is either a catcher or bust and thus will be given every chance to stick at the most difficult position on the diamond, he should be ranked a bit higher. Is it because of the questions about his suspension? Is it because of his slight lack of power or his absolute lack of speed? He’s a catcher….who DH’s on his days off.
by ILuvDaBush on Nov 10, 2025 4:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Great Job!
Much respect for sharing and consolidating info opinions etc … this to me is the best part of prospecting: seeing what one evaluator values while another pans.
One small opinion from my viewpoint: in 12 months I think (hope?) we all collectively eat any negative words about Porcello. His numbers may not have been shocking, but considering he was in hi A after being at prom the year before, he did “well enough” … every year it seem one high grade player becomes chic to doubt … this year, Porcello seems to be that guy (even ranking #13 here) …
Thanks again!
Paul Householder, Gary Redus, Tommy Lawless, Duane Walker ... prospects rawk!
by design28 on Nov 10, 2025 4:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Porcello
I think, actually, that it got to the point where Porcello was so overrated he became underrated, and we’re in that second phase. I personally am underranking him slightly, in my mind. I really honestly hope that my comparison of him to Jeremy Sowers was the stupidest thing in my post.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 10, 2025 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point regarding so overrated, he's underrated ...
Funny to think a 19 year old can have gone have gone through that total transformation in, what, 16 months?
It’s ALL opinion … I just find it funny the violent swings with Porcello in particular, but it happens every year …
Not sure about the Sowers (painful) comp … I’d say somewhere between Jon Garland and Roy Halladay sounds reasonable …
Thanks again!
Paul Householder, Gary Redus, Tommy Lawless, Duane Walker ... prospects rawk!
by design28 on Nov 11, 2025 9:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
besides the
jackson having mediocre tools (he doesnt, all are average to plus, per his BA scouting report), good job
by skiinginNJ on Nov 10, 2025 5:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wow
This is the best stuff I have seen on this site in a long time. Great job.
by nyy601 on Nov 10, 2025 7:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
What?
Julio Borbon and his free swingin low OBP self is on this list, but no Daryl Jones. ridiculous.
by CoolCat23 on Nov 10, 2025 9:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Jason Motte?
He’s still relatively new to pitching, but he had an absolutely dominant year in AAA and MLB this season. 110 Ks in 66.2 IP in AAA with a 2.97 FIP, 16 Ks in 11 IP in the bigs. I’d take him over HAR at 101, because I think he’s an eighth inning guy now and could be closing before the end of ‘09. He obviously needs some refinement on his secondary stuff since he’s only been pitching for 3 seasons, but the numbers are there.
by seabass on Nov 11, 2025 10:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I wanna see him against major leagues
for more than a cup of coffee to see if he can get by with his fastball long enough to develop that offspeed stuff. I’d want Chris Perez way, way before him..
by siddfynch on Nov 11, 2025 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I find it interesting that the gap between Poreda and Beckham
is one spot. They are two very different talents, I personally think Beckham is the much safer, polished pick, and should be higher, but then Poreda is where he should be.
by Daniel Berlyn on Nov 11, 2025 12:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not much love for Jays
JP Arencibia, even if you’re the biggest hater on his lack of walks ever, is a legit catcher with 30 HR power.
I guess Cooper making the HM is cool with me, but I think he’ll be a lot higher on lists next year.
Rios is the next Juan Gonzales, thats right, I said it.
by KaoticKlown on Nov 11, 2025 2:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ignore that post, sorry didn't see him the first time through.
Rios is the next Juan Gonzales, thats right, I said it.
by KaoticKlown on Nov 11, 2025 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Latos and Walden
Surprised not to see them on here.
by siddfynch on Nov 12, 2025 11:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Greg Halman?
I know he cant hit a curve but you cant ignore the raw talent and the numbers he put up in AA this year
Pittsburgh Pirates Rebuilding Since 1992
by kstanz41 on Nov 12, 2025 6:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
rangers prospects...
First i would like to say i commend you for the effort you obviously put into this post. I have been reading here for a while and finally decided to register/post on here. I know its alot easier to criticize someone else’s list then it is to come up with one’s own. However, you severely underrated pretty much every ranger prospect except beltre. You mention callis as your basis for ranking holland so low. The problem with this is you have Bum and Cahill above feliz and alderson and anderson above holland. Callis recently ranked the top lefty/righty pitching prospect combos in baseball. Price and wade davis ranked first presumably because price is the surest thing in baseball right now as far as pitching prospects go. The number 2 duo in callis’ mind? Feliz and holland. Which means he severely disagrees with youre ranking of both actually. Feliz has the best individual pitch of any of them.
In my personal opinion the ranger prospects will be ranked like this,
feliz-top 10
holland-top 20
smoak-top 25
andrus-top 30
main-top 50
perez-top 60
tt-top 60(i think this is overrating him but hes an absolute lock to make prospect lists)
max ram-top 70
Borbon-top 70
beltre-top 100
neil ramirez or blake beaven but not both-top 100
the callis question was in the ask BA chat from 2 weeks ago.
by CDFAN on Nov 12, 2025 6:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Andrus top 30?
I like Andrus, but his ceiling isn’t much higher than an above average SS - At his best, can he be more than a Yunel Escobar with less power, but more speed? - and that’s an awful long time away. Why is this a top-30 prospect? Taylor Teagarden, on the other hand, has a terrific chance to be at least an average catcher this year, with a ceiling at least as high as Andrus’ (if his BABIP returns to normal, he might have an OPS in the .850-.900 range while being an excellent defensive player). Main and Martin Perez are also overrated - they might become terrific players, but that’s an awful long way. With young pitchers, that time can kill. Julio Borbon is a 22 year old OF who had an OPS above .800 when his batting average was helped by an extremely high BABIP - in normal seasons, he has little power and less of a propensity to walk. He might be a marginal starting OF, but little more. Engel Beltre has a higher ceiling, but is so far away that we really have no idea what he is or is not capable of. In general, I think you’re wildly overrating ceiling and wildly underrating what a player can actually do, right now.
In my opinion, I’d put Feliz in the 10-15 area, Holland around 20, Smoak, low 20s, Ramirez and Teagarden between 30 and 40, Andrus around 50, Perez in the 60s, and Main in the 80-100 range. And the others wouldn’t make the list.
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 12, 2025 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Take off the blinders please.
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
by doublestix on Nov 13, 2025 1:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I have been wondering lately if the homerism is worse than it ever has been….seems like 25% of the posts are now from 2 or 3 teams. Still good info they provide, but man, there’s a real tendency to confuse knowledge of select prospects with knowledge of the entire field of potential prospects. People fall in love with Andrus because of what they think he can do, but then don’t spend any time comparing him to Chris Nelson, Escobar, Tyler Greene, Brewer, and all the other uber-athletes at the same position that still have holes in their game (don’t get riled up guys, it’s just an example).
Is this an unexpected result of the linkage that can come with the advent of the SB Nation setup? This site is less of an off-the-grid watering hole for prospect junkies, and more a well-marked exit ramp on the SB Nation highway?
by siddfynch on Nov 13, 2025 4:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Andrus
All those other players you mentioned.
Nelson- 22 when he finally made AA
Escobar- 23 when he made the jump to AA
Greene- 23 when he finally made AA
Brewer- will be 21 next year if gets to AA sometime during the year
Andrus- Was 19 for 90% of the AA season. Will be 20 years old next year starting out in AAA.
Tell me what the difference is?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 13, 2025 9:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not the point
The point is to see people show the homework a greater proportion of the time than to post the stock “Andrus is the best SS” without discussing the rest of the field. It’s pretty universally agreed that such discussion are the real value of these lists - in other words, is the process, not the product, that really counts here. And IMO, there’s less discussion, more straight advocacy than in the past couple years.
Do you disagree with this?
As for the facetious question, I’m a little tired of bratty little comments that aren’t intended for either humor or discussion. I’m GODDAM well aware of the differences among those players - the question is, are half the people voting for Andrus aware of them? And for you, does anything besides ARL factor into your analysis? For example, a guy who’s got power, speed, and D, but whose plate discipline develops too slowly for him to climb quickly….how far do you drop him, kowing he may still turn the corner and be a monster? Would you drop Wood below Andrus? What about Greene? Where does that line lie?
Or, you could just plug Andrus and carp about ARL.
by siddfynch on Nov 13, 2025 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Andrus
Look I am a Ranger homer, no denying that. I follow their farm system more than any other out there. People on the prospect polls have been bitching because Andrus was ranked in the mid 20s. On this list its 62. I am fully aware everyone has their differences ranking prospects. Personally I would rank Andrus in the top 30 somewhere I think he is that kind of talent.
But what gets me is the arguments people use when trying to put down Andrus. They point to his lack of power. Ok so what. Last time I checked power was the least important tool to have to be a good ML SS. Its nice to have but not essential. I would rank the necessary tools for a SS as this. Glove, Range/Speed, Arm, Contact, Power.
People love to point to Alcides Escobar and say that is Elvis’ ceiling. I laugh at that. Why? Because before this year Escobar had been Elvis but two years older than him. I do factor in age alot when making assessments of players. if a guy is 19 and putting up a line like Elvis in AA it impresses me whereas if the same guy is 22 putting up that line in A ball it doesn’t.
The kid is gonna start next year in AAA as a 20 year old. Play almost the entire year, until August, as a 20 year old. There is a pretty good possibility he breaks into the majors as a 20 year old. if he can do that with a ML caliber glove, range, and arm I will give him a pass if he is merely a .260 hitter with very little, if any, power. That can be worked on. As his body matures and he gets stronger he will naturally develop some pop. Escobar hadn’t shown any pop until this past year. Even then it wasn’t home run power (he only hit 8. Andrus hit 4 this past year). Do I think Elvis can easily develop double/gap power…yeah i do. And with his speed he can turn some of those into triples.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 13, 2025 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
Well, first, thanks for your measured response to my very irritated post. It wasn’t directed at you, so much as a belief system that because one knows a prospect well, that enables them to say where they should be ranked relative to others. I know a lot about Cole Rohrbough, for example, but wouldn’t think of lobbying for him here without telling you why I think he’s a better prospect than his peer group.
I realize the fanboy posts will always be present to some extent. It just seems like fewer people here recognize their own tunnel vision than usual, and spend less time laying out comparison-based arguments.
by siddfynch on Nov 13, 2025 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shoot
Somehow lost a paragraph of pithy text in the above post. Ah, well.
by siddfynch on Nov 13, 2025 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lost paragraph
was basically wondering whether Jpahk would be interested in doing his prospect rangefinder test again this year. It’s a much better forum for evaluating prospects on their individual merits, which something that the homers could be very useful for. The Top 50 rating system isn’t very appropriate - by definition, it requires comparison to other prospects, which is something “prospect-in-a-vacuum” homer perspective lack.
by siddfynch on Nov 13, 2025 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Andrus a lot
but realistically, his ceiling is an .800 OPS SS with very good defense. That’s terrific in so far as it goes. Just because a guy is 19 doesn’t mean his ceiling is infinite.
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 13, 2025 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And whats wrong with that?
You make it sound like those grow on trees. You want the list of SS this past year with OPS above 800? Peralta, Aviles, Reyes, H. Ramirez, Hardy, and Drew. There were only 4 other guys with OPS over 750. Jeter, Rollins, Escobar, and Guzman.
So by my calculations even if Andrus only is a 750 OPS guy it would put him in the top 1/3 of baseball at his position. And just skimming over this list I would say his glove will be better than at least half of those. So a top 1/3 OPS guy with a top 5 glove at one of the most important defensive positions. I will take that.
If he was a 3B or 1B or OF I wouldn’t be on here arguing because those positions should have a better bat than SS. And maybe people think that unless a guy is the next Arod at SS they are worthless. But a 20 year old with plus plus glove at AAA who can hold his own with the bat is a top prospect IMO.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 13, 2025 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know
Which is why I said it was terrific - in so far as it goes. That’s the best case scenario, that he is a top-10 SS. I think he has a decent enough chance to reach that level, that I’d probably put him in the top 40 or 50. Another possibility is that he’ll never add significant amounts of power or walking ability and become a Juan Pierre at short. I don’t think that will happen. But, a player who may be Yunel Escobar in 3 or 4 years is not an elite prospect
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 13, 2025 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Out of CDFAN's post
Andrus hardly seems like the guy to single out for not belonging. When a young player improves each month at AA, you have to respect that. I’d say a more realistic list might be:
Feliz top 20
Holland top 30-40
Smoak hard to say based on short time as pro, but I’ll say top 40
Andrus top 50
Main - outside shot, honorable mention just because he hasn’t pitched much. After 2009 he shoots way up if he keeps on.
Perez - outside shot at top 100
TT - top 75. His wrist injury this past spring affected his offense, he’ll be fine.
Max - love him, but his age and lack of defense keep him out of the top 100
Borbon - might be in the 80-100 range, lack of patience hurts him.
Beltre - high ceiling but so far slightly disappointing production
Beavan - nope
Neil Ramirez - this guy is underrated, but he does not make the list this year.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 13, 2025 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
to clarify
I know you’re not saying Andrus doesn’t belong on the list.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 13, 2025 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“There’s a real tendency to confuse knowledge of select prospects with knowledge of the entire field of potential prospects.”
Can we get this quote put somewhere very important?
I disagree with some of RSF’s ranking of A’s prospects - relative to each other (I said before I think Anderson is a better prospect than Cahill). That’s all I really feel qualified to speak on because I don’t know everything about every other team’s top prospects. So while I might think A’s Player X is really freaking good and a lock to be a good player (extreme hypothetical), I can’t really even say “he should be a top 10” player or something like that because I simply don’t know how people rank among the entire pool of minor leaguers.
by thejd44 on Nov 15, 2025 4:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You can use it for your sig line?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2025 11:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Four Rockies
Not a ton, but at least there’s Fowler and Chacin near the top. Rosario at #90 and Friedrich in the honorable mentions. Not terrible, but I think the list is an accurate assessment of a farm system that has a few stars but lacks depth.
by onholliday on Nov 13, 2025 11:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Logan Morrison
I have no clue how he is ranked so low. Would love to hear the rationale behind that.
(not being sarcastic)
by Ramp on Nov 16, 2025 2:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Murphy
Just a quick note: You have Daniel Murphy at number 80, and assuming you’re using standard criteria, he had 131 ABs in 2008 so he doesn’t technically qualify as a prospect. If he did, that’s probably a reasonable spot to put him in though.
by Meddler on Nov 17, 2025 6:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You're very biased and uneducated.
Stay in school. Don’t do drugs.
by schmosterballs92 on Nov 18, 2025 12:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
nice effort...but
there are some points i would like to make particulary on moustakas and porcello.
while i don’t disagree on your rankings of them, i do disagree on your commentary. moustakas and wood are two totally different players. wood has a long uppercut swing and the problems that come along with it- tons of k, low batting average. moustakas on the other hand has shown that he does not have a long swing, and is expected to hit for at least average.
you can’t really say wood is a good comparrison for moustakas unless you’re just referring to the power. i honestly think that if you’re looking for production comparrison for moustakas then someone like jeff kent seems like a better comparrison (note i’m just saying production stats, nothing else).
porcello is a totally different pitcher than sowers. now if you’re point on saying sowers 2.0 neant that you think he’ll flop (at least in his first call up) then i won’t argue with you since it’s your own opinion. but if you’re talking about their pitching style than you’re pretty off. porcello, while not the power pitcher (beckett/verlander clone) that many of us envisioned last yr, is not a finesse guy like sowers. i think once he can start using his full repoirtre his k rates will increase rather significantly.
by bk11 on Nov 18, 2025 11:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
F-mart
OPSed .772 in AA and Snider OPSed .818. Half the production? Not really
Also, I believe the separation was 9 months between Snider and Martinez, which is close to a year.
If I’m not mistaken, F-mart actually raked in AA from May on. So while I respect that you like performance, I think you should make less superficial judgements.
by METSMETSMETS on Nov 19, 2025 6:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Points well taken
Re:post-April, Martinez improved, but he was never really dominant. The two months that people like to quote where he did terrifically (in May he had a .928 OPS, and June he had a 1291) were over a combined 65 ABs. I don’t feel like doing the calculations right now, but I think his post-April OPS was probably in the low .800s, which is quite good for a 19 year old in AA. Even a .767 OPS over an entire year isn’t half bad
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 20, 2025 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Martin Perez = too high
A guy jumps onto your Top 100 list based on one comment in a B.A. Chat? Come on.
by Chieeef on Nov 20, 2025 8:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He's a 17 year old
who pitched well in A- ball. That’s pretty good.
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by OldProspects on Nov 20, 2025 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And who received all sorts of praise outside of that comment
From his BA NWL scouting report, from Nathan Hode (not John Manuel):
Small and wiry at 6 feet and 165 pounds, Perez nevertheless has two plus pitches. He consistently works from 89-92 and touches 94 mph with his fastball, and his power breaking ball may be the best curve in a Rangers system loaded with arms. Perez shows some feel for a changeup, a third potential plus pitch, but it’s still a work in progress. He maintains good arm speed and gets good action on it, though it can be too firm.
Or, consider the fact that he signed for big money in a very good international class, where he was considered, even then, one of the top two or three pitchers available.
Or, consider this blurb from MVN, if that sort of thing is your bag.
Exceptional player/person. I watched Perez throw a side session and I was really impressed with his stuff. His clean, repeatable mechanics in combination with excellent raw stuff point to a pitcher that far exceeds the 17 years of Martin Perez.
His fastball has excellent life and sources say he can already run it up to 94 mph. His curveball, perhaps his best pitch, is a serious hammer. He can drop it into the strike zone at will. His change-up shows promise and will end up giving Perez an arsenal of three above-average pitches to choose from.
I had the privilege of conducting a lengthy interview with Perez, and I can honestly say that it was one of my favorite ones ever. Perez is extremely confident in his ability, but, like Michael Main, doesn’t feel the need to wear it like a badge on his sleeve, or as a chip on his shoulder. He is also one of the smartest players I have ever talked to.
The cool thing is that his knowledge isn’t limited to just the baseball diamond. Perez can speak intelligently about anything you throw at him. I really can’t say enough about this kid. I have a feeling that he could end up being one of the top prospects in baseball at some point. No joke.
Or, consider that the Dallas Star-Telegram just ranked him 5th in the Rangers’ system, ahead of Teagarden, Andrus, Borbon, Beltre, and Max Ramirez, in that order.
Or, maybe just consider the fact that he pitched very well while being a year and a half younger than anybody else in the league.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 21, 2025 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or consider
that the Rangers’ coaches and brass talk about him as if he belongs right there with Feliz, Holland, Main and think he may have the highest ceiling of any of them.
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by t ball on Nov 21, 2025 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The A's coaches talk that way about Arnold Leon
Is he a top 70 prospect? His numbers in his pro career are significantly more impressive than Perez’s.
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by PaulThomas on Nov 21, 2025 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Um
Does Leon have the kind of outside praise that Perez does? Not really.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 21, 2025 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And, hell
Has Leon even seen time as a starter yet? No.
All in all, I think a Leon/Perez comparison is as awful as any that have been made. I mean, wow.
by RedSoxFaithful on Nov 21, 2025 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs









