Shelby Miller given a no shake rule????

by King Billy Royal on Jun 18, 2025 10:40 AM EDT

The Cardinals have instituted a "no shake rule" for Shelby Miller. I had never heard this term before and assumed that he was ignoring the "any more than 3 shakes and its a jerk" urinal etiquette. However, I was fortunately very wrong.

From Rotoworld:

News:

Cardinals pitching prospect Shelby Miller has been assigned a "no-shake rule" at Triple-A Memphis.

Analysis: In other words, he'll have to throw what the catcher (and coaching staff) suggests. Miller has struggled to the tune of a 6.00 ERA in 66 innings this season at the Triple-A level, and the Cardinals think it's because he's not using his secondary pitches enough. "I think part of it is hitters are sitting on his fastball because they know he's going to throw it and not his other pitches," farm director John Vuch said. "It's a work in progress." The 21-year-old is no longer guaranteed to make the majors this year.
What is everyone else's take on this news? Do you see it as a positive, negative, or non issue?

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Read More: Shelby Miller (P - STL), St. Louis Cardinals

Comments

This is why

Getting your panties in a wad over two months worth of stats (either good or bad) for a guy in the minors is just stupid.

The ease of access to information about each and every outing has made prospect-watching a lot more reactionary than it should be.

by realitypolice on Jun 18, 2025 11:03 AM EDT reply actions

?

Do you men getting worried about this years 2 months of awful stats are not worth panties-wadding? Or last year’s good stats weren’t worth getting excited about (of course he ws always highly touted, stats or no)? Because I think 2 months of horrid stats this year are worth concern, especially because it is in conjunction with a reported lower velocity.

Now, Madison Bumgarner had his well-known velocity drop in the minors and has turned ace-like in the majors. I don’t think Miller is cooked. But sometimes a bad stretch is just that for a young pitcher, and sometimes the bad stretch goes on for a couple of years (Mike Montgomery), or longer (see countless pitching prospects who once showed promise).

by wobatus on Jun 18, 2025 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Off-Field Issues

have also added to concern about lost velo, increased WHIP, HRs and BBs, plus decreased Ks. Lots of concerns. He hardly appears on the doorstep of reaching the majors.

by Hairylady on Jun 18, 2025 2:20 PM EDT reply actions

"Off-field issues"

I’ve seen this comment come up here before, and yet no one seemed to be able to specify what issues they were alluding to. Either he has some off-field issues which are known, or he doesn’t. Can you provide detail here? Otherwise, it seems as though everyone is just speculating that this would be a good reason for his on-field issues this year, with no real evidence to back up such speculations.

by brirob on Jun 18, 2025 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions

The off the field issue he has is major and I can't comment on it.

it could derail his whole career.

by Bravesin07 on Jun 18, 2025 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Ridiculious...

This comment is complete garbage… and simply put— don’t believe it.

by Joe Schroeder on Jun 19, 2025 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions

That’s bullshit.

And its cowardly not to reply with whatever information you have, when you make it a point to point out to every one that you have some sort of game changing information.

The only thing that could be considered an off field issue with Shelby Miller was an incident last season involving he and a couple of his roommates and alcohol at an apartment complex in Springfield last season. And it was hardly something that could derail a career.

So put up or shut up Braves. You can’t continuously claim to have info about a player and then continuously refuse to disclose that info when pressed.

by CoolCat23 on Jun 20, 2025 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions

A smear the player but refuse to make the smear legitimate ploy

Not only have you made Miller look bad, but you have done so in a way that a guileless person might consider you honorable — “I can’t comment on it.”

Dontcha just love the internet?!?

s.zielinski

by steve_z on Jun 20, 2025 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions

When you make an unfounded statement, you're not smearing the player, you're smearing yourself.

by mlbprospectpulse on Jun 20, 2025 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions

Personally

I’ve heard nothing about off field issues except from people who like to make stuff up to sound smart, that that “cant comment” guy

This new “policy” makes a lot of sense, and is probably something that a lot

by ADLC on Jun 18, 2025 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions

BAH

Cut off mid thought and got beat to the punch by Braves!

What I was saying:

This new “policy” makes a lot of sense, and is probably something that a lot of young pitchers deal with. He trusts his FB a lot more than his off speed stuff, so he shakes off the catcher and wants to go with his FB. Mentally, he probably remembers the times that the catcher made him through a secondary pitch and it got beat more than when his FB gets hit, so it makes him more reluctant to use them.

Call it Nuke Laloosh syndrome.

by ADLC on Jun 18, 2025 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions

EDIT BUTTON PLEASE!

through=throw

by ADLC on Jun 18, 2025 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Like I said I heard from a Scout on this

by Bravesin07 on Jun 18, 2025 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions

I mean, it's like saying, "I've got a hot girlfriend who's a model

but I can’t tell you who it is"

Why even say it, then? What’s the point that you are making by saying it (but not really saying it)? All that it proves is that people love to rumor, and hate to base their info on facts (things you can prove).

What we have here, without any semblance of proof, is a rumor. Which is essentially a waste of everyone’s time. So thanks for that.

by brirob on Jun 18, 2025 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions

I disagree.

If you trust the poster enough, why not hear he has something on the matter? Even if he can’t say it, it lets you know that something is there, or at least there is a chance. I wouldn’t knock a guy’s grade based on it, but I would keep it in mind.

There is a difference between that and some poster saying (last year) that he heard from someone’s brother’s cousin’s friend’s uncle that Josh Sale used steroids and no longer used them, hence the bad stats.

If some scout actually told him something, good for him. He probably just wanted people to know that there is something concerning, even if he can’t mention it.

by mr. maniac on Jun 19, 2025 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions

"If you trust the poster enough"

I trust you, mr. maniac.

You’re a good writer with solid insights on the Rays.

But if you were to open up a can of worms with a “scout/whatever told me this, but I can’t tell you”, that trust would go right out the window.

Employees of major and minor league teams have to sign confidentiality waivers, I’ve honestly signed my name fewer times when closing on a house. There is a clause within the waivers which states any violations of this agreement could result in arrest, fines and possible litigation and a lifetime ban from future MLB/MiLB employment.

So to say a scout, who is a team employee, would walk up to fans at the concession stands or in the men’s room and disclose “secret” information regarding a player or a situation such as a pending trade, etc. should quite frankly be taken with quite a few grains of salt.

This guy very well may be a “trusted poster”, but he clearly shot himself in the ass saying something pretty much everyone here knows is a stretch.

by mlbprospectpulse on Jun 19, 2025 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Unless of course he is telling the truth.

by pedrophile on Jun 19, 2025 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions

He very well could be, but you can buy the bridge, I'm going there.

by mlbprospectpulse on Jun 19, 2025 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions

"...I'm going there."

I’m not going there.

by mlbprospectpulse on Jun 19, 2025 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions

This.

Maybe there was a reason said source told him to say nothing? Sure, people are supposed to keep secrets, but things get slipped all the time. Trust me on this. ;)

by mr. maniac on Jun 19, 2025 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Of course, this does nothing to say whether or not he is telling the truth.

And, since this is the internet, it should be taken with a grain of salt. The possibility that he actually knows something is definitely there though.

by mr. maniac on Jun 19, 2025 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions

I have no idea either, but the whole suspension thing was suspicious

It was multiple alcohol incidents and trying to get any info at all on these “incidents” is next to impossible. IMO when it’s a simple “kids getting drunk and unruly” people are forthcoming about it as it’s a total non-issue.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was just kids being kids. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some other issue going on either.

by pedrophile on Jun 19, 2025 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Braves Info Does have some "value"

My $0.02

Experience over 40 years of following sports tells me never to dismiss rumors of “off-field issues” as in my experience rumors of this type have tended to be accurate well over 50% of the time. There was a buzz in inside NY sports circles about Gooden, Strawberry, LT well before any of them had their first “incident” that raised a public red flag. Thus, I do as a general rule ascribe some “value” to a rumor such as the one put forth on Miller. Others may not, but forecasting is all about probability weighting outcomes and this will be put into my mix master.

Miller only has one publicly known “incident” that I am aware of which as someone has already mentioned was “underage drinking in a hotel” and I believe that he was publicly disciplined (missed a start or 2). Again, experience would suggest that teams will not publicly punish an elite prospect like this in the absence of “prior warnings” that were disregarded.

Someone mentioned the fact that a scout would be in violation of his work rules to reveal any such information. I wouldn’t view this as a serious deterrant. Minor league stadiums are intimate, prospect hounds that are engaging can find scouts in attendance who don’t mind talking about “stuff”. The use of the universal code word of “issues” is used by many in fact who are spreading gossip about someone that they really shouldn’t be but feel that since they were’nt specific they hadn’t really committed a big breach. Further, a “scout” chatting at a minor league stadium doesn’t even need to disclose his identity in this type of conversation making it that much more remote that he would ever get in trouble.

I have had 2 first hand experiences with similar inside info regarding MLB all star players over the years. One was by a renowned orthopedic surgeon who was explaining to me the potentiality of outcomes regarding the future health of my knees and mentioned this ball player’s condition (as of a few years earlier) which led me to downgrade the dynasty stock of said player significantly (and has been borne out to be a sound move). I may have even cryptically commented about said player’s knees on a message board I frequented (following a known procedure that he had) but I did so in a way in which no one could possibly ID my source. The 2nd instance was through a buddy of mine who had undergone hypnotherapy by a professional who deals with substance abuse quite a bit and it was revealed (very inappropriately) about an all star MLB player who had previously used his services during a period of time when said player was out for an extended period of time with an “injury/conditon” that resulted in much more missed time than anyone had initially thought. Other than some local home town rumors I’ve never seen anything disclosed by MLB or media that his made this made this alleged rehab stint public knowledge.

So celebrity info does “leak”. Not always true but not fair to blast someone for not revealing a source.

Fat man is no more,
Bursting on through Heaven's Door
Come on in, says Bill

by Wilbur Wood on Jun 20, 2025 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

Miller had two incidents

Oh, and agree with everything you wrote

by pedrophile on Jun 20, 2025 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions

Agreed

This isn’t a court of law, and people can filter what they want and give it whatever level of significance they choose. There’s no need to blast Braves for merely mentioning this.

To me, the big concern is the reported loss of velocity and poor results (albeit his k rate isn’t awful). Although at lest someone his saying his velo is back up in the thread below.

by wobatus on Jun 20, 2025 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions

It's also possible

That one or two people intimating an insider knowledge of an issue creates the rumor that builds upon itself. A few years ago my brother and I made a joking post on our blog about an MLB player. It was picked up by some larger blogs and eventually reported on ESPN. While harmless it did illustrate how quickly a fake rumor, with no support, can spread

And the idea that a team wouldn’t publicly punish a player for underage drinking is a bit of a stretch.

by ADLC on Jun 20, 2025 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions

have you ever heard of another team suspending a player

for underage drinking? Because underage drinking happens. A lot. And yet we don’t see suspensions.

by pedrophile on Jun 21, 2025 4:06 AM EDT up reply actions

Plus the Cardinals have had issues with alcohol in the past (LaRussa and Freese DUIs, Josh Hancock) and want to keep everything out in the open. It shows that there is a penalty for alcohol violations.

by wolverine0712 on Jun 21, 2025 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions

Hunter Pence was suspended by HOU for a DUI

as a minor leaguer IIRC.

by charles wallace on Jun 21, 2025 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions

I think it was some alcohol thing

And he was suspended by the Cardinals for it. I don’t remember exactly what the issue was. Just that he was suspended by the organization.

by CaptainCanuck on Jun 18, 2025 6:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

I guess previously he was going with the "three shake" rule?

by pedrophile on Jun 18, 2025 2:41 PM EDT reply actions

this is excellent

by TheBigOne on Jun 18, 2025 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions

as a general note, multiple reports indicate his velocity is back up to its normal level (sitting 92-94, touching 95-96).

if i seem a little strange, well, that's because i am. - the smiths

by tom s. on Jun 18, 2025 6:50 PM EDT reply actions

I hope Miller will be OK

But I’m definitely wondering if we’re all in the process of being given a pretty brutal reminder about TNSTAAPP.

http://www.crawfishboxes.com

by OremLK on Jun 18, 2025 7:27 PM EDT reply actions

I'm really not sure how problematic everything is

He’s a very young pitcher struggling with command against big boy hitters. I’m unconvinced that all of the other talk (his velocity isn’t perfect, he’s got off-the-field issues) isn’t leading directly from that.

by mrkupe on Jun 19, 2025 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions