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Discussion Question: Smoak or Carter?

If you could have Justin Smoak of Texas or Chris Carter of Oakland for the next ten years, who would you pick?

Carter had the gaudier numbers in '09, but Smoak had the oblique injury that was at least a partial factor in his Triple-A struggles. Both draw tons of walks. Smoak has less present power but also strikes out less than Carter. Smoak is also a better defender. Both were born in December of 1986, so the age factor is the same.

Poll
Who do you want for the next ten years, Chris Carter or Justin Smoak?
Chris Carter of Oakland
598 votes
Justin Smoak of Texas
1566 votes

2164 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 111 comments

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Voted Smoak, but it's awfully close

The most disappointing thing is we could have had both of them on the A’s. A 3-4-5 of Smoak, Carter, and Taylor would have been sick.

RIP Nick Adenhart

by gatling on Jan 27, 2026 9:43 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

yeah

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jan 27, 2026 4:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

hindsight

and honestly… we don’t know how they’re all going to pan out. All very bright prospects, but none of them have even reached the majors.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jan 28, 2026 9:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Defensively speaking . . .

If we are accounting for defense, wouldn’t the answer be obvious?

I guess my question would be . . . Is Carter’s bat so far advanced over Smoak to make up for their defensive differences? My thought would be NO.

Give me Smoak.

2nd question—Does Smoak have Gold Glove caliber defense or will it just be above average?

The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. It reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.

by Savoy on Jan 27, 2026 9:57 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

gold gloves

are popularity contests.

by richieabernathy on Jan 27, 2026 9:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Our analysis of defense is not.

Just because moron voters give out the awards wontonly doesn’t mean that a measuring stick fo defense can’t be considered. If he wants to call it “gold glove” caliber defense, then fine.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jan 27, 2026 1:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

All-star games (and arguably MVP and Cy Young awards) are popularity contests, too, but they are used as scouting or analyst shorthand for well above average to elite performers.

by FI2 on Jan 27, 2026 2:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This

“Gold Glove caliber defense” when referring to a prospect is pretty obviously another way of saying “one of the best in the league at his position.”

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Jan 27, 2026 2:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I know you guys are right

but that phrase has to come from the right person in order for me to take any notice. When John uses that phrase, I get the point. It’s just such a phrase that gets thrown around way to easily. It makes me think of some drunk in a bar who thinks a player is a good defender because he has won a Gold Glove or two. …and there are 9 of them given out in each league per year, which makes it (seemingly) easier to throw around a name who has won one than the more prestigious MVP and Cy Young Awards. He Who Causes Death To Flying Things has never won a Gold Glove, by the way.

by richieabernathy on Jan 27, 2026 2:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, the Gold Glove award is absolutely a joke. No argument there.

But the concept of a “Gold Glove fielder” is pretty well established, especially when discussing a player’s tools.

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Jan 27, 2026 2:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

5 MORE YEARS OF FELIX!

by Marinerfanjake on Jan 27, 2026 6:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

carter

I thought this would be much closer.

I think people may be underestimating exactly how good Carter’s bat is.

by John Sickels on Jan 27, 2026 10:40 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Carter

I love him, been following him since short season ball in the White Sox org, but I voted Smoak: better defense, and less flame out potential. Carter has the greater upside, and more power, but Smoak just seems so much safer, like someone who’ll put up 120-130 OPS+ seasons like clockwork.

by gogotabata on Jan 27, 2026 11:13 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Carter

He has imporved offensively as he went up the ladder. Not that I’d expect more than .260 is his rookie year.

by faketeams on Jan 27, 2026 11:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m surprised it is this close (127/365 for Smoak at the moment), I think it’s an easy win for Smoak. I’d take Smoak in every facet of the game but power and he projects to have pretty decent power so I don’t think it’s a huge gap in the power tool either.

by jfish26101 on Jan 27, 2026 1:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

average

don’t see why its a forgone conclusion that Smoak will hit for such a higher average. They were both 22 in AA last year and Carter hit 16 points higher in 200 more ABS. And too say there isn’t a huge gap in the power tool is crazy. Aside from hitting a lot of HRs with metal bats Smoak hasn’t shown prestigious power. 15 HRs in 450 pro ABs doesn’t scream game changing power to me.

Only thing I see Smoak having clearly ahead of Carter is defense.

by ScottAZ on Jan 29, 2026 11:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ryan Howard or Kevin Youkilis.

I think these are fair comps. As much press as Howard gets, Youkilis is a superior ball player. Over 10 years being an operative point, both will be 33 at the end of this period. Which one is more likely to peter out towards the end of that 10 year period? Carter’s skill set reeks of a 3TO or old player skills. Smoak’s seem to have a better chance at longevity.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jan 27, 2026 1:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t see Carter ever having the peek Howard has and I think Howard is overrated except for that one exceptional year he put up. I think Carter could be a 115-130 OPS+ with a couple peak years above that if he is lucky but, with D factored in, he just isn’t going to be a truly special player. Smoak probably wont be a truly special player either but I think he at least has a shot at being pretty special 1B.

by jfish26101 on Jan 27, 2026 1:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Just working on skill sets here.

Carter’s main strengths are huge power and patience, which is exactly what Howard brings. No, they may not have exactly similar home run numbers (especially not with league and park differences), but the skill sets will demonstrate a similar range of probability.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jan 27, 2026 2:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

???

Howard has a career 142 OPS+ over five seasons, a +140 last year. He strikes out a ton, but he also draws a lot of walks and has hit more HRs over the past 5 years then anyone. Factor in his defense metrics were greatly improved last year and it is hard to say he’s overrated

by ScottAZ on Jan 29, 2026 11:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Luckily, the A's couldn't care less about years 8-10 (or for that matter years 11-15)

Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."

by PaulThomas on Jan 27, 2026 6:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

And the way today’s free agent markets are playing out, neither will any other MLB teams

by faketeams on Jan 30, 2026 6:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

safer bet

Carter seems like a riskier play, everyone seems pretty sure that Smoak will be solid, and the main question is what kind of power will he have. . .Carter had the huge year, if everyone thought he could replicate that in the bigs he would surely be a top five prospect, but most have him in the 15-30 range b/c he seems more likely to flame out

by SoCalSoxFan on Jan 27, 2026 2:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I dislike terms like that.

“More likely to flame out”.. sure… but how much more likely? A single percent would still be “more likely”.

I don’t think Carter is significantly higher a flameout risk than Smoak. I just think that if we’re talking about their skill sets, Carter’s come up shorter than Smoak’s over a 10 year span. I’d still expect Carter to be a strong performer during his prime in the majors, though perhaps not as glorious as some are predicting.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jan 27, 2026 2:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

actually i was thinking he is

one half of a percent more likely to flame out .. ..

his lack of defensive prowess could prevent him from getting multiple looks if he doesn’t hit right away. . .

Why else would a guy w/ a career 925 OPS in the minors not be a surefire top 5-10 prospect?

by SoCalSoxFan on Jan 27, 2026 2:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There's a thin line between 1B/DH worth.

It’s not like he’s going from catching to DHing. HellAdam Dunn would gain like 15 runs by DHing.

by rglass44 on Jan 27, 2026 3:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I privately suspect that Chris Carter would likely gain like 15 runs from DHing too

I literally have never read a single positive comment about his glove that wasn’t phrased as a someday-hypothetical (like “he might be a decent LF once he gets used to the position” etc etc.). All the present-day reports are just epically horrible.

Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."

by PaulThomas on Jan 27, 2026 6:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

I think this is closer than the % even though I went with Smoak. No one has mentioned Smoak’s huge platoon split last season (even though it was a SSS). The big advantage Smoak has is he is a 1st baseman rather than a DH, like Carter. Otherwise, I think their offensive output (Carter trading some AVG and BB% for more power) is going to be equal.

Follow me at http://twitter.com/JDSussman
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...

by JDSussman on Jan 27, 2026 2:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think it's because people see those strikeouts as "massive holes in his swing"

When that’s not necessarily the case. In fact, people who have really seen/scouted him (like you) don’t really indicate there are huge holes. Strike outs, yes, but I’m not sure they’re of the “he’s going to get killed in the majors” variety.

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Jan 27, 2026 2:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I took Smoak

I think if you’re going to be a career DH like Carter could very well be, you have to be Edgar Martinez or David Ortiz. I agree with gogotabata that Smoak is the “safer” bet, and I don’t think the difference in bats is enough to offset the difference in defense.

2010 Tigers deadweight contracts coming off the books:

Maggs (18M)
Willis (12M)
Bonderman (12.5M)
Robertson (10M)
Inge (6.6M)

2011 is the year of the Tiger!

by sportznut3081 on Jan 27, 2026 11:54 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Smoak

Two big reasons (which have mostly been covered):

1) Defense. The difference here is fairly self explanatory. Smoak is pretty good and has the tools to be a plus defender at 1B. Carter has some decent defensive tools but bad hands/reactions.

2) Hitting for Average tool/skill. Although Carter improved his contact ability significantly this year his swing still has some major holes in it. I expect Smoak to regularly hit for ≥ .300 and he’s also a switch hitter who shouldn’t have any discernible platoon split.

Carter takes a huge cut and makes it work b/c he’s a disciplined hitter. I consider him a top 15 prospect. Smoak has a neat, compact swing that generates plenty of back spin and loft without sacrificing plate coverage. Smoak also has a good amount of natural power, though not on Carter’s level (ranked pure 80 by some). Smoak also has an impeccable approach at the plate. Smoak is top 10 for me.

So, theyre both excellent prospects and I want to say we’re splitting hairs… but, OTOH, Its Smoak for me, and not a really tough call, either. I’ll take Smoak’s appreciably better defense, AVG and OBP over the 10-15 more HRs.

by alskor on Jan 27, 2026 12:44 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

"switching hitter who shouldn't have any discernible platoon split"

That is, in fact, one of the question marks regarding Smoak. He hit .196/.268/.314 in Double-A and .231/.324/.338 versus left-handed pitching.

by richieabernathy on Jan 27, 2026 2:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hitters see considerably less LHP than RHP. What is the ratio? I’m sure someone has the ratio over the history of baseball or something like that calculated. I’d bet hitters generally see 66-75% more RHP than LHP but perhaps I’m wrong, I’m never all that concerned when I see a hitter (especially a young hitter or a hitter who hasn’t been playing against pro competition long) struggling against LHP.

by jfish26101 on Jan 27, 2026 2:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It's defs too small of a sample to claim he has a huge platoon prob.

I wouldn’t say, though, that his ability to hit from both sides of the plate means he FOR SURE can avoid a platoon issue.

by rglass44 on Jan 27, 2026 3:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Even if he hits .220/.320/.400 vs. LHP, just how many ABs are we talking about? 150 out of 500? Heck Carter’s total BA will probably only be .30-.40 points higher than that. It just isn’t that big of an issue, I think you are grasping at straws by trying to suggest this could possibly keep Smoak from becoming a special player.

by jfish26101 on Jan 27, 2026 3:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, OK. Yeah I can agree with that, some switch hitters actually give up one side or the other later in their careers due to struggles. I’m not sure if that will be a problem or not for Smoak but, even if it is, I’m not all that concerned about it.

by jfish26101 on Jan 27, 2026 3:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

For the record

I wasnt arguing that his switch hitting was the reason why. It is typically good evidence of that, but not always. The scouting is the reason why. He had no platoon issues in college and has a pretty swing from both sides of the plate.

by alskor on Jan 27, 2026 3:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Doesn't concern me at all

This isn’t Josh Bell. That was a SSS with an oblique problem on one side.

Scouting wise, he has a nice swing that makes tons of good contact with great plate coverage. He has always been projected by scouts as a .300 hitter.

Really grasping at straws to base a concern on his platoon split in a SSS when he was rushed to AAA with an oblique injury in his first full season as a pro.

by alskor on Jan 27, 2026 3:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Just mentioned this in reply to John's post, but I'll ask you here

What “holes” does Carter have? Serious question. Yes, he Ks a lot. But much of that comes from him being a power hitter who draws a lot of walks. What is he bad at doing when it comes to hitting? Curveballs? A good fastball? Hitting in certain counts? Is his swing fatally flawed? I haven’t heard anybody actually explain this.

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Jan 27, 2026 2:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He takes a big cut, has a two part swing that causes him major problems with offspeed stuff and breaking balls & he obviously has a lot of swing and miss in his game.
one scout had more concerns about Carter’s propensity to swing and miss than anything positive to say, noting that he’s “so big and strong, and it is absolutely enormous power. But if the ball is not in his immediate bat path, he misses.” The scout added, “He’s bad at seeing the slider, and bad at laying off the slider, and that’s a very tough combination to overcome,” admitting there are some fears that Carter will be just an up-and-down player in the end. “He’s going to keep putting up big numbers, but he has holes above and below the barrel, and lots of areas that big-league pitchers can go to get him out. With what the A’s have done with Jack Cust, you’d never want to say never, but I think when he gets to the big leagues, he’s just going to strike out a ton.”

http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9154

The Mexican Pacific League is a unique place to play. Filled with pitchers from the home country, there’s rarely any need to bring a radar gun to the game, as fastballs ranging in the 80s are the norm, but they can all spin a breaking ball. That’s led to a combination of dominance (four home runs in 28 at-bats), and embarrassment (14 strikeouts) for Carter, who still needs to adjust to non-fastball offerings, both in recognizing and lunging at secondary stuff.

http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9672
He is a dead red bat. He can handle the fastball and even some mistakes with other offerings but they have to be up. Sure he has a good hand pivot and a soft subtle approach but he shifts and lunges to the front side creating issue’s with pitchers who know how to change speeds and locate.

Carter’s sway-back rear hip load is very inefficient and causes him to get onto his front side too early. When it comes time to launch his swing, his weight has already shifted to his front side, leaving him vulnerable to good off-speed pitches down and away.

What remains to be seen is if he can make the necessary adjustments to cover all areas of the strike zone to handle Major League quality pitching, or if he will forever be a Five O’clock superstar. Carter has the athleticism and power to do damage in the Majors, but going forward the pitching will only get better and smarter and exploit the holes in his swing.
http://projectprospect.com/article/2009/09/25/chris-carter-scouting-report



He actually had huge holes in his swing going into 09. This was pretty widely reported and talked about frequently around here. He made a lot of adjusments in 09 to improve that, as previously he had major problems with offspeed and breaking stuff as well as better pitchers (which added to the perception he’s a mistake hitter). He’s still something less than good with that, though.

Its not a huge concern, and his natural power makes up for a lot of it… but we’re comparing him to a pretty elite prospect here w/ Smoak.

by alskor on Jan 27, 2026 4:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So, to be clear, this is different than the normal correlation between power and Ks

Carter has some problems with his swing that leave him vulnerable to a few things.

by alskor on Jan 27, 2026 4:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

so you're saying

a 22-year-old who hit .337/.435/.576 in Double-A in ’09 before getting promoted and going on a homerun tear in the PCL playoffs has room to improve? Sweet.

by richieabernathy on Jan 27, 2026 4:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

OK, ty to stay with me here...


STATS - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - SCOUTING

MINOR LEAGUE PITCHING - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - MAJOR LEAGUE PITCHING

by alskor on Jan 27, 2026 5:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know if it's "Room to improve" as much as "necessary areas to improve"

I get what alskor is saying. Right now, Carter is good enough with what he’s good at to compensate against lesser pitching. When he reaches the Majors, he’ll face a lot of guys who can just attack his (apparently) gaping-hole weaknesses. If he can’t patch those holes up, at least to some extent, he’s going to have a hard time ever utilizing his strengths because pitchers will completely avoid those.

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Jan 28, 2026 2:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

have the guys at

project prospect earned the respect to use them as a source? I’m asking b/c I’m not too familiar w/ the site. Sure, they can drop some nice verbage about a guys swing and point to certain things and say that will be his downfall, but have they said any of this about a guy and been right?

I mean, you could break down video on Ichiro and say he has too much movement to succeed, or Sheffield’s bat wiggle will be his downfall, but good/great hitters do overcome these things. There is not one perfect swing that everyone is trying to replicate, that’s kind of the beauty of hitting.

by SoCalSoxFan on Jan 27, 2026 7:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That was written by Steve "Tha" Carter.

If there is anyone in the community whose insights I would trust, it is that man.

That much, I know.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Jan 27, 2026 7:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

has he

made a prediction or whatever in advance that has panned out though? What has he done to earn your trust or whatever?

by SoCalSoxFan on Jan 27, 2026 10:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't know Steve Carter until the summer when he joined PP.

And by ‘know,’ I mean over the internet, haha. I don’t know the guy in person.

He is a scout, and he backs up everything he says with as close to objective support as one can give.

I trust the guy; he seems like he knows all about scouting.

Maybe it’s blind faith, but he has conveyed to me that he knows his shit.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Jan 27, 2026 11:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ive heard Carter is just a mistake hitter

Is that true?

www.oriolesprospects.com | twitter @orioleprospects

by ravensfan3 on Jan 27, 2026 1:03 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

That's a lot of mistakes....

"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau

by King Richard on Jan 27, 2026 3:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

As an A's fan...

If Texas offered Smoak for Carter, I’d take it in a heartbeat. Smoak has a defined position, and is still a very very good hitter. I’d take that over a HR/K guy with no set position or defensive value.

Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!

by ZeroIndulgence on Jan 27, 2026 1:20 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Smoak by a landslide.

Carter has some major holes in his swing, and could never become more than a .240 hitter.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Jan 27, 2026 1:22 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

ho

i really disagree with that.

by John Sickels on Jan 27, 2026 1:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think Frederick is wrong unless you think his floor is higher than a .240 hitter (which I don’t). Sure, he could put up a few years above .260 but I don’t think projecting him as a .240-.260 hitter is that far off. Some of the projections from readers here that I’ve seen saying he can put up BAs in the .270-.280 range annually seem way off to me, he just doesn’t seem like that good of a hitter to me. He has one tool, it’s plus-plus but he is pretty one dimensional to me.

by jfish26101 on Jan 27, 2026 1:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Its very hard to imagine Chris Carter becoming an above average contact hitter in the majors. Ill take the under on .275 (luck excepted, of course).

He should still be an offensive force and he’ll walk a good amount, but he’s going to swing and miss a lot and he won’t hit for a high AVG.

by alskor on Jan 27, 2026 4:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't.

His minor league averages haven’t been that great. Add in an MLE based on superior competition and he’s hovering in Ryan Howard territory in both average and strikeouts.

Yeah, he hit .337 in AA ball last year… with a .407 BABIP. No way he’s pulling that off regularly.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jan 27, 2026 1:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

For clarity, I don't agree that he "can never become more than a .240 hitter"...

Because “never” is too strong a word when dealing with probability. But Carter has some huge weaknesses in his game.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jan 27, 2026 1:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

I didn’t notice the word “never” which does seem strong. I’d bet Frederick didn’t mean that literally, more as “he may never…” but perhaps I’m wrong. If he honestly thinks Carter will never put up a BA above .240 then yes I think he is wrong about that.

by jfish26101 on Jan 27, 2026 2:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

not to speak for frederick but

It reads like he’s trying to say ’it’s possible that Carter might never be better than a .240 hitter’.

by FI2 on Jan 27, 2026 2:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see how you can infer that at all.

One of Fred’s better points is using strong language and sticking to his opinions. It can be inflammatory, but I rarely see him make an opinion he doesn’t believe.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jan 27, 2026 2:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m sure he will clarify, I just don’t think he meant the statement as literal.

by jfish26101 on Jan 27, 2026 2:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

could never...

As in, Carter could very well fail to ever hit above .240 in the Majors.

I’m evaluating his floor.

FI2 was right.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Jan 27, 2026 2:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I said I thought you meant “he may never…”, how is that much different than “could never…”? :D

by jfish26101 on Jan 27, 2026 2:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ope.

You were right, too, jfish.

I missed that post.

‘may’ = ‘could’ as far as I’m concerned.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Jan 27, 2026 2:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

less holes in the swing

than Mark Reynolds, i know i’m just pointing out one guy, but if guys like Mark Reynolds and even Napoli can hit 260+, i could see Carter above their range. .

by SoCalSoxFan on Jan 27, 2026 2:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Like I said "never" is too strong a word.

Reynolds posts some rather high BABIPs and Napoli’s contact rates hover around 10% higher than Reynolds’. So it’s not as if stuff can’t happen.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jan 27, 2026 2:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Power hitters often post high BABIPs

especially if they have decent speed (Carter does) and hit right-handed (making it harder to shift on them and lengthening the throws on fielded grounders).

I mean even Pat Burrell has a career BABIP of .302 and he’s like the slowest professional athlete in the world, or at least the slowest not surnamed Molina.

Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."

by PaulThomas on Jan 27, 2026 6:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Reynolds BABIP hovers in the 330-340 range.

It’s the only reason he has a batting average over .250. Carter has done that once in the minors and posted an absurd .406 in Double A last year.

And I don’t think there is a correlation between power and BABIP.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jan 28, 2026 1:06 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You're wrong

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/batters-and-babip/

A negative coefficient for “pitches per extra-base hit” means that “fewer pitches per extra-base hit” is positively correlated with BABIP. At a statistically significant level, one should add.

Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."

by PaulThomas on Jan 28, 2026 3:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm missing something.

Where does that article support your claim?

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jan 28, 2026 4:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It does...

We’re assuming here XBHs are hit harder than singles. a fair assumption in most cases (and certainly a measurable effect with this kind of sample).

Lets look at this logically, though. What are the repeatable things a player can do that affect his BABIP in a positive way?

1) Play in a hitter friendly park, face bad pitcher, various joke answers… - Lets get this out of the way right now. We’re talking about things the player actually controls…

2) Master the ability to place his hits between fielders - I think we’re all (rightfully) skeptical of this, but Ill give you Wade Boggs, Tony Gwynn…

3) Be really fast to 1B - Thus balls hit at the extremities of infielder’s range that would normally be outs are turned into singles by the player’s speed. Think Ichiro, Carl Crawford, Ellsbury…

4) Hit the ball really hard - Thus ball hit at the extremities of a fielder’s (both IF and OF) range that would normally be caught or fielded successfully land safely or become unfieldable.

We’re not typically talking a huge effect here, though… In Carter’s case, hitting the ball really hard probably does pick him up a handful of extra hits a year - which, if you’ve seen Bull Durham, can make a difference.

by alskor on Jan 28, 2026 5:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll agree that player controlled skills are what we should look for here.

I’ll disagree that the other factors that influence BABIP aren’t important. Even those who hit the ball hard have their BABIP’s influenced by outside factors. Speedy players as well. I don’t see a correlation that there is a tendency for power to equal a higher number of hits.

I’ll agree that it should. I don’t agree that it does.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jan 28, 2026 9:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

To expound, and I'm just doing some lazy gruntwork here.

Let’s look at BABIP leader rankings for the last few years. I’m going to post the player name, the BABIP, and their ISO power. It’s probably not best to use ISO power in this case as an “indicator of power”, but bear with me.

2007
Figgins - .399 - .102
Upton (BJ) - .399 - .209
Ichiro - .390 - .080
Posada - .389 - .206
Ordonez - .385 - .232
Holliday - .380 - .267
Renteria - .375 - .138
Crawford - .375 - .151
Jeter - .368 - .130
Utley - .368 - .234
Young (Michael) - .367 - .103
Lee (Derek) - .367 - .196
Cust - .366 - .248
Willits - .363 - .051
Wright (David) - .362 - .222

Of these top 15, 7 have ISO above .200 (Lee is close at .196), 7 have Fangraphs speed scores higher than 5, all but 2 had a batting average .300 or better (except Jack Cust [.256] and Reggie Willits [.293]).

2008
Bradley - .396 - .242
Jones (Chipper) - .388 - .210
Ramirez (Manny) - .373 - .270
Lewis (Fred) - .367 - .158
Kemp - .363 - .168
Holliday - .361 - .217
Markakis - .351 - .185
Upton (BJ) - .351 - .128
Mauer - .350 - .123
Ludwick - .349 - .292
Youkilis - .347 - .257
Pujols - .346 - .296
Winn - .346 - .120
Roberts - .345 - .154
Berkman - .345 - .255

This year, 8 had ISO above .200, 7 had Fangraphs speed scores above 5, 10 had batting averages at or above .300.

2009
Wright (David) - .400 - .140
Ichiro - .384 - .113
Ramirez (Hanley) - .384 - .201
Mauer - .377 - .222
Choo - .376 - .189
Votto - .373 - .245
Jeter - .369 - .131
Bartlett - .368 - .170
Bourn - .367 - .099
Coghlan - .366 - .139
Upton (Justin) - .364 - .232
Youkilis - .363 - .242
Cabrera (Asdrubal) - .362 - .130
Hawpe - .360 - .234
Morgan - .360 - .081

In 2009, we had 6 with ISO above .200, 10 with Fangraphs speed scores higher than 5, all but 2 (Hawpe, Bourn) with averages at or above .300.

Does this mean anything conclusive? Probably not, but that’s part of the problem. I don’t see anything here that concludes that power = higher BABIPs anymore than speed = higher BABIPs or that even high contact rates = higher BABIPs. There’s nothing here. The only thing I can say conclusively is that some players put up consistently high BABIPs while the rest fluctuate wildly year in and year out.

Let’s look at some of the more consistent guys. David Wright has posted BABIPs above .325 5 of his 6 years (and the one year was his first major league playing time). He has average contact rates, decent plate discipline, good power, and average speed. He also hits a ton of line drives (Career 23.6%). Does any of this mean anything or does all of it mean something? Does all of it mean nothing? Let’s keep looking.

Ichiro Suzuki has posted a BABIP below .330 once in his career (2005). Contact skills are good, place discipline is okay, low power, and good speed. Career LD rate 20.7%. Does it mean much?

Joe Mauer has posted a BABIP below .320 once (first year). He has good contact skills, excellent plate discipline, appears to be showing more power lately, below average speed, and has a career LD mark of 22.5%. Does this mean much?

Albert Pujols has posted a BABIP below .300 once (2006). He has good contact skills, excellent plate discipline, excellent power, and below average speed. Career line drive rate: 19.5% Does this mean much?

Here we have four guys who do different things but post high BABIPs. Interesting to note is that the lowest average BABIP comes from the guy with the highest power, but I’m not going to even try to say that these examples mean shit.

What am I trying to say? I don’t think there really is a conclusive piece of evidence that can point to BABIP influence. There seems to be many ways to get it and there seem to be many ways to screw it up. Hardball Times’ article linked above was an attempt to try to perfect the concept of an expected BABIP based off the many factors that I have shown here (power, speed, discipline, contact, etc), not power alone. In that regard, I don’t see how you can claim that power = a higher BABIP.

Again, it “should”, but it doesn’t.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jan 28, 2026 9:52 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yup.

I said, “could never…”

I would never use an absolute for projections.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Jan 27, 2026 2:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think anybody expects him to hit .337, or produce a .407 BABIP regularly

but people constantly talk about his “low batting average”, yet he only has one season where he hit below .283 and that was in Stockton where he still managed a .930 OPS. In 2005 (Rk) he hit .283, in 2006 (Rk) he hit .299, in 2007 (A) he hit .291 and then came the 2008 season where he hit .259. He rebounded last season to hit .337 at Midland and although he will not maintain anything close to that, he did improve his overall offensive game quite a bit. Cut his K’s by a good margain and maintained the same BB rate. After 2008 everyone was willing to write the season off because it was a CAL league performance, and because of his high K rate. Then last season he tears the cover off of the ball at midland while improving his offensive game in the areas where people were concerned, yet he still gets labled as a low BA, big power guy. If the guy comes out and hits .350/.450/.600 in AAA next season will people start to come around? For the record, I voted Smoak here because I think he will be a great player all around. I’ll take Carter’s upside with the bat, but Smoak should be a really good offensive player with solid defense, something Carter lacks. I guess I just don’t understand what else this guy has to do to start getting recognized as one of the top offensive prospects in the game. I think his bat continually gets underrated or discounted way too easily by some people on this site. He’s not gonna be a perennial .300 hitter, but with his power he won’t have to be. I see him as a .270/.370/.530 type hitter and see no reason why we should expect him to not be in that ballpark.

by JPShark on Jan 27, 2026 4:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Minor league batting AVGs are somewhat unreliable

The parks are weird. The defense is sloppy and inconsistent.

There are many times a guy has a flaw that he can get away with dominating in AA or AAA but that gets exposed in the majors. Look at Ian Kennedy. Carter doesn’t have a major flaw per se, but he has a lot of swing and miss in his swing that probably can be exploited some by MLB pitchers, especially those who can paint the outside corner with good breaking and/or offspeed stuff. This probably will lead to lower batting AVGs than we saw in the minors, since the major leaguers are, you know… a higher quality of competition than the minors. Its really a fairly common issue. See Davis, Chris.

Despite this issue Chris Carter is still one of the best prospects in the minors.

by alskor on Jan 27, 2026 5:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I understand this argument

and like I said I don’t expect Carter to hit for high average on a regular basis but I constantly see Carter get labled as a .240-.250 hitter, and I think it’s unfair. He’s improved his game enough, and has shown that he’s a better hitter then that. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see how things pan out at the major league level, but I think he’s going to consistently OPS .875+.

by JPShark on Jan 27, 2026 5:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree .240-250 is a little low...

I just think the people seeing .280-290 are much more ridiculous…

by alskor on Jan 27, 2026 5:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I see no reason

He can’t put up .265-.275 AVGs consistently.

I was saying this pre-2009…I don’t really worry about Carter too much because he’s always shown the ability to adapt…and look what happened.

He won’t be Ichiro, but I don’t think he’ll be Carlos Pena either.

"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond

by hero66 on Jan 29, 2026 9:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The reason people post high averages in the low minors is that BABIPs are much much higher the lower you go

At the extreme example, in college ball the average BABIP is like .400. Makes it pretty easy to hit for a high average if you can put some juice on the ball.

Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."

by PaulThomas on Jan 27, 2026 6:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

dude

Sickels just called you his ho!

by gogotabata on Jan 27, 2026 3:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Haha

by jfish26101 on Jan 27, 2026 3:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He mah sugar daddy.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Jan 27, 2026 4:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I hear Sickels is such a pimp, Toronto was considering him for their GM.

by gogotabata on Jan 27, 2026 4:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, the Toronto Argonauts.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Jan 27, 2026 7:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I talked to a scout this last week who told me he thinks Smoak is Teixiera junior...

He said expect him to get called up at some point this year and to stick.

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Jan 27, 2026 2:20 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I could certainly see that.

The .930 OPS in AA one year removed from college, while not even coming close to his power ceiling, speaks volumes to the kind of bat that Smoak possesses.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Jan 27, 2026 2:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

postseason

His oblique injury healed and it was inferior talent, but Smoak dominated at the World Championships after the regular season. Won the MVP Award and led the tournament in bombs.

by richieabernathy on Jan 27, 2026 2:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That swing is a thing of beauty.

I could see a handful of ~35 home run seasons in the Majors.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Jan 27, 2026 2:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Can you see that swing turn into a Joe Mauer type of compact/contact swing that produces power?

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Jan 27, 2026 3:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jan 27, 2026 3:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Id say it already is somewhat...

Its pretty compact and tight and he gets a ton of plate coverage (to go with elite patience, too).

Mauer though… he’s a generational talent. His career batting AVG is .327 and that’s with catching regularly. Its unfair to compare anyone to him.

If you’re asking if I can see Smoak hitting >.330 well, no, obviously that’s not a smart bet to take. His swing will hit for a very high AVG and produce a lot of power, though. He has plus natural power from both sides of the plate.

by alskor on Jan 27, 2026 4:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was comparing him more to Mauer in approach

I guess than actual talent level. Mauer just punches the outside pitch to the opposite field. It’s more of a line drive than a punch. Is Smoak a guy that’s going to drive the ball to the opposite field? Wait for the fastball in his zone, and then kill it?

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Jan 27, 2026 4:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly, 2007 Jack Cust might be a good idea of what a typical Carter year would look like.

Maybe with a little more in the AVG department, and less walks.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jan 27, 2026 2:55 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Smoak has question marks too

His power was nowhere near carter’s level last year, it was a disappointment. Carter probably needs more AAA time but in double A where he spent the majority of his season last year he cut down his ks to 24.3 % which isn’t terrible. Carter isnt a bench out there either. He has the athleticism to at least be average at first.

by jarjets89 on Jan 27, 2026 3:08 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Being average at first base doesn't have much to do with athleticism

First basemen don’t really get a lot of opportunities to really flex their athletic muscles, so to speak. Most of it is being reliable and surehanded enough to make a ton of routine plays with very few mistakes.

Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."

by PaulThomas on Jan 27, 2026 6:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

it does help with range though. I was responding to people who think he is only a DH, which isnt fair. Most only DH only guys are really slow and fat, or are too injured to play the field

by jarjets89 on Jan 27, 2026 7:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Smoak is the obvious choice here.

He should hit around .300 on a regular basis, with solid plate discipline and 25-30 HR power. He also looks to be pretty solid on defense, giving him the clear edge over Carter. That said, as I stated further up in this thread, I think the majority of people on this site underrate Carter’s bat. He’s got huge power, takes a lot of walks, and has shown the ability to hit the ball hard consistently. He’s gonna strike out, but he’s no Jack Cust in that department. He won’t hit .300, but there’s no reason he can’t consistently hit in the .265-.275 range with 35+ Hr’s annually. I guess i’m in the minority on this one, but I just think it’s a mistake to label him another Jack Cust or Rob Deer. He’s a much better hitter then either of those guys.

by JPShark on Jan 27, 2026 5:07 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

No, I know Cust was, and hopefully still is

a valuable player. The guy manages to put up excellent offensive numbers in the hitter hell that is the Oakland Coliseum. That’s not something many manage to do. I just think Carter clearly has what it takes to be a better hitter then Cust, that’s all.

by JPShark on Jan 27, 2026 5:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

mayo's rankings

9. smoak
16. wallace
35. carter
37. taylor

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100127&content_id=7983130&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

by MagicMike23 on Jan 28, 2026 12:32 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Both could have been A's...Both could have been Rangers too
The minor league leader in total bases and extra-base hits (and runner-up in home runs) was High A first baseman Chris Carter, whom Oakland acquired from Arizona in this winter’s Dan Haren trade. The reason I note this is that, two weeks before the Diamondbacks sent Carter to Oakland in mid-December, they’d acquired him from the White Sox for Carlos Quentin — shortly after Chicago was reportedly prepared to trade Carter to Texas for Akinori Otsuka, before the White Sox reviewed Otsuka’s medical records and withdrew the offer.

Jamey Newberg

by SaltyDawg on Jan 28, 2026 1:12 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

voted smoak

alot more well rounded. and the power is plus just not plus plus in my opinion.

Fresh since 1822

by kmacsm on Jan 29, 2026 2:51 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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