Trade Thread

castillo

i really don't think the Twins got enough for him. They got 2 guys who pretty much every souce i find feels they aren't MLB players. So...if this is true, in essence they gave Castillo away for nothing.

Go Pirates!!!

by cool hand Charlie on Jul 31, 2007 3:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Meh

Castillo can't run anymore, and can't really play defense either. Which is not exactly good value for 5.75 million. It was heroic for the Twins to get anything in return for him.

Casilla will give them exactly the same performance the rest of the way, and let them save almost 2 million dollars as well.

by slackerjack on Jul 31, 2007 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Salty, Andrus, Feliz, Harrison

...and now Beu Jones

I think Texas got more than enough, especially for a deadline deal.

#269

by mrmetaa on Jul 31, 2007 3:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Definately

They avoid having to pay Tex, can insert Salty at 1st base or give Jason Botts a shot this year. Have a potential replacement for Michael Young in a couple years in Andrus, can spend some money on pitching for next year too. I think this was a great deal for Texas.

by slickwdb on Jul 31, 2007 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Geez...

JS paid out the ass.

by aCone419 on Jul 31, 2007 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Texas

I think this makes them worse for this year and next but better and possibly much better for the following years. They better hope these guys are better than the DVD fiasco.

by niallmack on Jul 31, 2007 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Good Job for Jon Daniels

And that's a little surprising, since his two previous big trades have been horrible busts. The Adrian Gonzalez/Chris Young for Adam Eaton/Akinori Otsuka looked bad at the time and looks much, much worse now. And the Soriano deal, which I thought was a decent trade at the time, looked pretty stupid after Soriano did what he did in Washington.

by ajohnst1 on Jul 31, 2007 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Texas, arguably got too much

and Castillo has no more value than a Tony Womack was in 2005 = pinch runner

--Bobby Mcnally (alias)

by bobbymcnally on Jul 31, 2007 4:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, ...

except that Castillo can get on base and plays terrific defense. C'mon, he's a solid guy. Not a star, but he is definitely better than Tony Womack ever was...

"fortunately, scouts believe Gomez has enough tools to replace one of his appendages a la Edward Scissorhands" - bleedjaxblue, 7/5/07

by jc3 on Jul 31, 2007 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

his defense is only average at best

according to some scouting reports i read... i think keith law said that

by mroak89 on Jul 31, 2007 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Law

Worth pointing out that he's a numbers guy, a former analyst for Scouts Inc., and former assistant to Ricciardi in Toronto. He's never been a talent evaluator, and quite frankly has a poor eye for talent in my opinion. Having watched Luis Castillo a good bit this season, I can say without a doubt that his range is at least average, likely above average. He won't make any errors, either. I have no idea what Law is talking about.

by nyr2k2 on Jul 31, 2007 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ZRs and PMRs

Based on quantitative fielding assesments, Castillo grades out at average. For example, Dave Pinto's PMR has Castillo at a 103 out ratio last year, well below some of the leaders. Similarly, HBT had him in the middle of the pack in their 2006 zone ratings.

Interestingly, so far in 2007, the zone ratings show him to be the second-worst defensive 2B in the AL. I don't follow the Twins enough to know whether this is a sample size issue or a lingering injury problem for Castillo, but if I were the Mets I would be a bit worried.

by Yakker on Jul 31, 2007 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he uses his tools

and you use yours... who's to say one tool is more "legitimate" than the other when it comes to what happens on the diamond? frankly, very few people just now. defense isn't in the same place as offense, but eyewitness has been proven to be faulty on a pretty regular basis.

by mroak89 on Jul 31, 2007 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also worth pointing out....

that the turf really throws off alot of defensive stats.

His range factor will be lower, his fielding percentage higher, and double play rate even increased a bit because of playing on the turf.

He may not be as much different from what he was in Florida (an above average overall defender), as the raw stats suggest.

He'll make a few more errors on the Shea infield, but also get to more balls.

by acerimusdux on Aug 1, 2007 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

DP's...

This is one of the biggest reasons why the Mets got Castillo. Gotay has made some feeds to Reyes in the last couple of weeks that have nearly gotten him killed coming across 2B, but most people just see his .350 plus average in 150 or so AB's...

It's frustrating because Gotay has shown promise, but you can't keep hoping that he figures it out during the season while jeopardizing one of your franchise players. I hope he can eventually, but sometimes these things are more in the head than anywhere else...

by MetfanBren on Aug 1, 2007 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Minaya tore Twins a new one

This is a terrible deal for the Twins. Castillo is a switch hitting second baseman who consistently hits .300 and plays excellent defense. I know he is aging, but trading him away for basically nothing makes no sense. The Mets have a solid farm system, and Ryan should have tried to get a Carlos Gomez or a mid to high level pitching prospect. Pelfrey's stock has fallen off a bit from last year so why not make a push for him at the very least. You can't tell me that the Padres are able to get a big time prospect like Will Inman (and two other prospects) for a solid but definitely not special setup man in Linebrink, and Ryan can't get at least a mid level guy for Castillo. They gave him away.

by jesse717 on Jul 31, 2007 4:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

-1

I think Terry Ryan made the right move. Casilla is cheaper and the equivalent to Castillo. He needs the experience. They got rid of the remainder of Castillo's contract and will get the equivalent production for a lesser cost.

"Standard disclaimer: it's baseball, even if he's cooked, someone'll overpay." -drjayphd

by JT12340 on Aug 2, 2007 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

my point

he has poor range, no matter what you say about that play he made against the Mets in that game in June

he can't catch up w/ a fastball, and what he basically does is slap a ball and hope he beats it out.

He has 8 SBs and 3 3B's this year--a speedster? His speed has declined...and has 0 HR's

Speed never goes into slumps?--He was 0-20 at one point in the season.

Horrible trade.

--Bobby Mcnally (alias)

by bobbymcnally on Jul 31, 2007 4:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Range

How do you figure he has poor range? I watch him on a regular basis, and there is no way that his range is anything less than average. This is backed up as well by his Zone Rating, which places him middle of the pack. There is nothing "poor" about his defense.

A slap-hitting singles machine is exactly what the Mets need behind Jose Reyes. That is exactly what Paul Lo Duca was for them last season: a guy who could put the ball on the ground, move Jose, bunt, and not strike out. EXACTLY what they need behind Jose Reyes (short of finding an all-around AS hitter, something that didn't exist on the market).

He's obviously not the speed threat he once was, but he's still an above average runner nonetheless. Watch him beat out an infield single and tell me he's not sill fast. I'll add that SB totals aren't indicitive of speed... There are guys with speed that can't steal bases, and guys that steal bases without great speed. Base stealing is a skill that is learned. Castillo was never a great base stealer, he always used his excellent wheels to make up for his inability to read the pitcher.

The phrase "speed never goes into slumps" means exactly that- speed is always there as long as a player is healthy. It isn't intended to speak towards hitting ability. A guy with speed always has a place on the roster.

It's a good trade for the Mets. Ruben Gotay is a career .271 hitter in the minors, and there is nothing in his past to indicate he's capable of being a .300 hitter (let alone a .350 hitter) at the big league level. He is better served as the primary lefty bat off of the bench for the Mets. The two guys the Mets gave up- Butera and Martin- will likely max out as 4A fodder and a 5th OFer respectively, if that. There's also a distinct possibility that Mets offer Castillo arbitration in the off season, only to have him decline (his heart is in Minnesota, in his own words). The resulting compensatory pick would likely net a greater prospect than either of the two the Mets gave up.

by nyr2k2 on Jul 31, 2007 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unnecessary Trade

Castillo isn't going to hurt the Mets and they didn't give up anything of consequence either. He strengthens their defense up the middle and their bench by pushing Gotay back to it.

However, if the Mets get even a single high round draft pick for letting him walk after the season, this is a great trade for Omar.

The key here is that they do have to let him walk. :)

by Jmast7 on Jul 31, 2007 5:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The key

The key is they'd also have to offer him arbitration first. He's not worth $6 million a season anymore, so they likely won't and they won't get any pick.

The Twins were best off dealing him for the best offer they could get. I'm a bit surprised they didn't get one of the Mets other "C" prospects, like maybe Jon Niese, Bob Parnell, Nick Evans. I'd probably take Sean Henry over Martin as well. But I suspect the Twins got the guys they liked best out of that level of prospect.

by acerimusdux on Jul 31, 2007 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Picking minor league prospects

The Twins have had pretty good success grabbing guys who can contribute at the major league level in these kinds of trades.

Butera is probably Mauer's backup of the future. Which will cause the roto guys all kinds of angst since he will never really hit.

I suspect Martin is a fourth outfielder. Which again is the sort of "easily replaceable" player that fans don't see much value in.

I think the arbitration/salary/compensation issue was a critical part of the decision. The Twins weren't going to get anything for Castillo because no one will pay him more than he will get in arbitration.

by TT on Aug 2, 2007 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dotel for Davies

Thoughts on this one? At first I thought Dayton Moore was thinking more with his heart than his head, but Davies is still just 23 and who would know him better than Moore?

After the success of Meche and Bannister, I am prepared to give Moore the benefit of the doubt on this one, although the rumored Balentien offer sounded more desirable.

by Bowser on Jul 31, 2007 6:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wlad

If Wlad really was offered (Who the hell really knows at this point?), then I think it was a bad deal. I don't hold out high hope for Davies, but getting a good young arm for an aging reliever you don't terribly need then its an ok trade.

I've got a sneaking suspicion, though, that Moore's luck is about to run out, and Davies will flop and Bannister will revert to the pitcher he really is.

by KCSlayer on Jul 31, 2007 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think...

...it's a good trade for both teams, though I think KC got the better end of the deal. Davies has been erratic as hell with the Braves so far, but as you noted he's only 23 and has plenty of upside. Meche and Bannister have been fantastic, though I'm a bit skeptical of Bannister with his very low k-rate.

Dotel still has electric stuff but poor command. 11 walks in 23 innings isn't particularly promising. I think he'll help the Braves down the stretch, but the move may turn out to be a mistake for the Braves if Davies develops as I think he will.

by nyr2k2 on Jul 31, 2007 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bannister

Its not his K rate that concerns me as much as his low BABIP. As far as I know, hes not incredibly deceptive and doesn't have extreme groundball tendencies so thats gotta come up at some point. And when that happens, his effectiveness is gonna drop.

by KCSlayer on Jul 31, 2007 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

Couple the high rate of contact he allows with his low BABIP and you have a pitcher that seems to be fortunate to have an ERA below 4.50. He was similar in his brief time with the Mets though, so maybe he's just one of those guys that defies statistical analysis... Or not, heh.

by nyr2k2 on Jul 31, 2007 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Davies

He may be one of thoe guys who doent get it til he is 26/27 years old..then maybe he becomes a power RP ...its funny you kept hearing what the Royals wanted for Dotel and what was offered...they didnt get anything premium for him..I think teams didnt try after hearing Daytons demands

by NYSOX on Aug 1, 2007 7:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thoughts

Hasn't every single bad pitcher been 23 at one time? What makes us think Davies is better than he has shown in his first 200 major league innings?

Fake Teams

by ephinz on Aug 1, 2007 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

umm Curt Schilling comes to mind

He was awful for his first couple of tries when he was called up.

by Bravesin07 on Aug 1, 2007 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Try again

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/Curt-Schilling.shtml

"Dying is no big deal. The least of us will manage that. Living is the trick." - Red Smith

by finman on Aug 1, 2007 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's actually right

Look at '88 and '89 with Baltimore. His first two call-ups were rather sorry. While a small sample size in both, they were nothing to be happy about.

by The Gottfather on Aug 1, 2007 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

wow

There are LOTS of pitchers that have been bad during their first big league exposure..

by doublestix on Aug 1, 2007 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Glavine

His 22 was awful, his 23 was ok, his 24 was awful, and then he was a 20 game winner and Tom Glavine.

by NBarnes on Aug 2, 2007 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Question Is...

Did the Pittsburgh Pirates get enough in return for Rajai Davis? I'd answer with a resounding 'NO!'

by Potsie13 on Jul 31, 2007 7:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

One would think...

That the Bucs would learn. I'm amazed Littlefield still has a job, considering how his first dealing with Sabean went down. The only way this works out for the pirates is if Morris pitches lights out for the next three weeks, clears waivers and gets dealt to a contender. But man, Sabean is still gold.

"I'm not arrogant, I'm good." - Barry Bonds

by Azantor on Aug 1, 2007 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

sabean

honestly, dont you think he could have gotten more for Morris? All we've been hearing about is how desperate teams are for solid MLB starters. Morris fits that bill(i personally think he's an average pitcher, but he can fill innings for people). I doubt the Pirates were the only team who had any interest in Morris.

Jack Cust is this year's Marcus Thames

by Team Moneyball on Aug 1, 2007 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

Not trying to pick nits, but the timing matters here. The Buccos will likely pass Morris through waivers now, before he pitches, and then hope they can dish him off to someone who needs pitching in the coming month (or more). And I don't think he needs to pitch lights out. Simply league-average will be fine.

Also, is it crazy to suggest the Pirates keep Morris the rest of this year and next, to provide a vetran presence in the rotation and help take some of the load of their young, promising arms? It is? Well then, perhaps someone could have said the same thing for Sabean and his original signing. IMO, Sabean is not still and has never been gold, unless you're referring to pyrite.

by Yakker on Aug 1, 2007 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It'll be hard for the Bucs to deal him...

After Morris CG on 6/11 vs Toronto (the last time he got a win and his last "quality start"), he's stunk. His ERA in that time (8 starts) is 8.12, and he's giving up a whopping 16.2 hits/9. Yeah, I understand that he's going through a bad stretch, but that isn't what you want from a dude who's making over 10 mil per season. He's clearly in the decline phase of his career, and I don't think it helps the Pirates in the short term, or next year.

Though Sabean was the one who signed him to the contract, the Giants situation has changed since then - they REALLY suck now, and at least he did something about it. Back when they signed him before '06, they were an underachieving, aging team. Getting the Pirates to acquire him was one thing, but given that they took on all of his salary and gave up Davis (who basically looks like Calvin Murray with a good arm) and a PTBNL was a very good deal for the Giants. They have a surplus of SP, and Ortiz can fill the spot in the rotation that Morris vacated for a fraction of the price (I think he's making like $400K, though still being paid by AZ for that horrendous contract they gave him). Given that the Giants aren't going anywhere fast, might as well save some cash, even if Ortiz doesn't pitch that well.

I'm not saying Sabean is 24 Karat, he's made his share of bad moves (remember AJ?), but on the whole he's still one of the better GMs in baseball, and I'm interested to see how he rebuilds the team once Bonds retires.

"I'm not arrogant, I'm good." - Barry Bonds

by Azantor on Aug 2, 2007 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sabean

Well, I pretty much couldn't disagree more on ol' Sabes, I think he's made blunder after blunder (AJ, the Michael Tucker debacle, Benitez, Zito, Ponson, Ortiz, Morris, the list goes on and on), but I got a feeling we're just gonna have to agree to disagree.

by Yakker on Aug 2, 2007 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

History....

What about the trades that netted them Kent, Burks, Schmidt, Lofton, Bell, Snow and Nen? Claiming Scott Eyre?

What about signing Sanders and Santiago?

What about the '97 White Sox heist?

I can live with agreeing to disagree, but I'd happily take Sabean over guys like Bowden, Purpura or Littlefield. Epstein, Cashman and Minaya only look good because their teams can afford to buy what they need and spend on top flight amateur talent. Sabean has made decent moves, especially given the lack of position player development that their farm system has produced.

"I'm not arrogant, I'm good." - Barry Bonds

by Azantor on Aug 3, 2007 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Betemit for Proctor

An absolute steal for NY, given that Proctor has James Andrews on speed dial at this point.

Lets the team DFA Cairo, and there's no way Ramirez, Britton, or Joba could possibly be worse than Farnsworth.

Todd Frazier for President

by FrazierFan on Jul 31, 2007 9:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not sure it's a steal

I agree that Betemit is the more valuable player, but the Dodgers got a bullpen arm, which is something they desperately needed. All they had to give up was someone who has largely been riding the bench and with LaRoche in AAA, it's not like this sets them back too far.

On the other side of things, where are the Yankees going to play him. At this point, he is a role player for them.

by count sutton on Jul 31, 2007 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

First base

Just check out Andy Phillips number in depth, and the fact that he's a 30 year old who's not able to stay in the big leagues.

I agree that he's expendable for the Dodgers though, but Proctor better get them into the playoffs this year or this would look pretty stupid a couple of years down the line if Betemit can hold a starting job for New York.

by RollingWave on Aug 3, 2007 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My trade thoughts (going by what's listed on BA)

1. Matt Morris for Rajai Davis and PTBN

If the PTBN is anyone significant, this becomes even worse, if possible. An older pitcher and the entire salary? 10.5 more million? Yeah, I believe in veteran leadership ... but this wasn't the route to go, IMO. I think SF got a nice deal ... as they dumped the salary.

2. Royce Ring for Will Ledezma and Will Startup.

Hmm ... I'm not particularly bullish on Ledezma or Startup. That said, I'm not bullish on Ring either. Bleh. I think, because of Startup, I'd give the Padres a small nod, but eh.

3. Julio Mateo for Jesus Merchan.

From a talent perspective, I think Mateo helps, and I'm not a fan of Merchan.

4. Morgan Ensberg for PTBN

Eh ... Bleh. Houston didn't need Ensberg ... and I'm not sure Ensberg is an upgrade, if at all, over Kouzmanoff, so I'll give the nod to the Stros there.

5. Eric Gagne for Engel Beltre, Kason Gabbard, and David Murphy.

Maybe I was the only one surprised by this ... but I thought Gagne would net more. Beltre's a long way off, and I'm not particularly big on Murphy or Gabbard long term. Nice move by Epstein, IMO.

6. Rob Mackowiak for Jon Link.

Sure, Mackowiak's useful. But I don't think he changes the offensive dynamics there. Link's a decent looking arm, but not anything to get worked up over. Seems like a fair trade for both sides, I guess, perhaps with a slight favor to Padres. But tis me.

7. Octavio Dotel for Kyle Davies.

I like the trade for both sides. The early rumors (Acosta/Davies/Lillibridge) would've been a coup for Dayton Moore. Atlanta gives up a young arm that looked to be on the outs, and potentially adds some reinforcement. The price for SP was probably too high for now, so they bulked up the offense and the pen. KC adds a nice young arm to hope on.

8. Wilson Betemit for Scott Proctor.

I like the trade for both sides here as well. Dodgers could use the help, and Betemit wasn't doing much. Yankees seem likely to give some other arms a look. If anything, I guess I'd favor the Dodgers a bit, as I don't see Betemit tremendously impacting anything ... while Scott could play a pivotal (good or bad) for the Dodgers.

9. Joel Piniero for PTBN

Eh ... who cares. I guess I'd favor Boston ... as Piniero was out there, but I doubt they got anything intriguing.

by toonsterwu on Jul 31, 2007 10:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Mets lost big

They could of traded away Gomez or Milledge for Cordero who would of made the Mets pen very very good. Now they have the roid head Mota in who just blew Glavine's chance at win number 300. Milledge after his hot week has struggled the last two games 0-7 and will not get anything to hit in the 8 hole.

by Bravesin07 on Jul 31, 2007 10:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Just Shut Up Already

Again, after about 10 seconds I found his stats batting from the 8 hole .294/.324/.500. He's got 34 ABs there which is more than half his total at bats. Why don't you do us all a favor and hit yourself over the head with your keyboard to knock some sense into your thick skull? Mahalo

Matt

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

by WayneCampbell05 on Aug 1, 2007 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Honestly

Imagine trading Milledge for Cordero. Alou gets hurt again. Are you looking at a Green, David Newhan, and Marlon Anderson outfield? Talk about a loss.

Milledge is only hitting in the 8 hole because Willie "I Like Veterans" Randolph likes veterans.

Talkin' Sports

by BlackOps on Aug 1, 2007 3:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

dude

Will you ever learn this one?

by limozeen on Aug 1, 2007 5:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

answer:

no, he won't

by sabernar on Aug 1, 2007 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ummm.

No... and thank god Omar didnt trade away Milledge or Gomez for a Cordero. Milledge is playing very well and I dont trust Alou and his health. Wouldnt want to see Green, Anderson, and Newhan outfield ever.

by Darce on Aug 1, 2007 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I Think John Daniels deserves a lot of Credit

Texas is not a very good team with no real chance of competing this year or next. They have a decent amount of money but they need to start rebuilding a get a solid young core before they can compete.

They gave up 3 months of Gagne (who is really worthless to the Rangers since they aren't competing this year); they gave up 1.5 years of Teixeira (who doesn't have a ton of value to the Rangers since they likely aren't competing next year and because he is seeking a contract that would hurt the financial flexibility of the team); they gave up 3 months of Lofton (again, he doesn't really have any value because they are not competing); and 3 months of Ron Mahay (see above).

In return, they received 6 years of a MLB ready back of the rotation starter, of a potential middle-rotation or back-end starter, of a extremely young SP with a huge ceiling, of a MLB ready potential All-Star Catcher, of a possible MLB regular or 4th OF, of an extremely young extremely toolsy OF (with a huge ceiling), of an extremely young toolsy SS, and of a great hitting future 1B/C. That's a pretty nice haul for 4 guys that didn't really have much chance of helping the team win a championship.

In addition, Daniels had one of the best drafts of anyone - if everyone gets signed they also added Beavan (a potential top of the rotation starter), Mike Main (a potential top of the rotation starter), and Julio Borbon (the top rated college OF according to BA).

So basically, Daniels has completely rebuilt the system. To illustrate, let's look at BA's projected 2010 lineup from before the start of the season:

Catcher - Gerald Laird
1B - Mark Teixeira
2B - Ian Kinlser
SS - Michael Young
3B - Hank Blalock
LF - John Mayberry Jr.
CF - Brad Wilkerson
RF - Nelson Cruz
DH - Jason Botts
1SP - John Danks
2SP - Eric Hurley
3SP - Kevin Millwood
4SP - Edinson Volquez
5SP - Thomas Diamond
CL - Akinori Otsuka

Wow - almost everyone of those players was on the Rangers MLB roster this season! That's not good.

Here's my new projected lineup for the 2011 Rangers:

C - Jarrod Salty
1B - Max Ramirez
2B - Ian Kinsler
SS - Elvis Andrus
3B - Michael Young
LF - John Mayberry
CF - Julio Burbon
RF - David Murphy
DH - Jason Botts
SP1 - Eric Hurley
SP2 - Matt Harrison
SP3 - Blake Beavan
SP4 - Michael Main
SP5 - Kason Gabbard
CL - Thomas Diamond

It's still not a top system in terms of star-power but at least there is depth and potential impact everywhere...

Bravesin07 is so damn reactionary. I bet when his mother took him to the Dr., his leg kicked before the Dr. hit his knee with the reflex hammer. --slurve

by Dfarth on Aug 1, 2007 11:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That 2011 lineup

it'd be surprised if one of the three pitchers in Clinton (Phillips, Kiker and Poveda) don't make it to the show. I'd be even more surprised if Taylor Teagarden isn't an everyday catcher. The Rangers had some good minor league talent before the deadline, they just added more.

by FirebatM3 on Aug 1, 2007 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I Admit

That I'm not that familiar with the Rangers minor league club...

As soon as I got finished writing I thought about Teagarden but I wasn't certain where I'd insert him. I definitely think Kiker is as good of a bet to be in the rotation as Harrison or Main.

Bravesin07 is so damn reactionary. I bet when his mother took him to the Dr., his leg kicked before the Dr. hit his knee with the reflex hammer. --slurve

by Dfarth on Aug 1, 2007 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm a Hurley fan, but...

If the top of your rotation is Hurley/Harrison, you're not going to be a very good ballclub. Harrison is, IMO, a #4. And while he has moderate GB tendencies, he'll still give up a fair few HRs in that ballpark. Hurley might be a #2 but not in Arlington with his FB rate.

Send him to Washington or San Diego, maybe even SF.... Well, that's a different story. :-)

by mraver on Aug 1, 2007 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

FB Rates

I try not to obsess over this but I acknowledge that it's a potential problem. Still, he's a 21 year old putting up a decent line in the toughest minor league league for pitchers - so I'm going to take a wait and see approach.

Still, I was trying to build a lineup solely of players from within the organization. The Rangers have a history of being willing to spend money and with my hypothetical homegrown team - they would have plenty of money to spend on a strong starting pitcher or two...Not to mention the guys that the above poster mentioned who I forgot...

Bravesin07 is so damn reactionary. I bet when his mother took him to the Dr., his leg kicked before the Dr. hit his knee with the reflex hammer. --slurve

by Dfarth on Aug 1, 2007 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chris Young

did well in Arlington with a much lower GB/FB ratio. Since most of Hurley's fly balls are non-threatening popups, I doubt it makes much of a difference.

by FirebatM3 on Aug 1, 2007 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think a much

better indicator for success in Arlington is BB/9. The extra pitches kill pitchers and in that park, you have to minimize your pitch count, that's why guys like Kenny Rogers survived in Arlington. Hurley has done both pretty well in his career.

by FirebatM3 on Aug 1, 2007 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Look for Santana to be dealt

In the winter or next summer, he wants out since the Twins did nothing at the dealine.

by Bravesin07 on Aug 1, 2007 1:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I can't see it

I think it's way too early to think that Santana won't calm down and change his mind between now and next year. The Twins likely should consider it, but they won't be able to get full value, or anything close to it, if they trade him. Probably best to wait and see. I mean, how many times have we heard a superstar player voice his displeasure at management, only to later pull a 180? If I remember correctly, Manny Ramirez said something about wanting to be traded a little while back...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genious, but they don't know how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world." - Calvin

by RVachon on Aug 1, 2007 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Big Difference

Manny was with Boston, while Johan is with Minnesota, one of the most notoriously cheap franchises in MLB. I can't see them going up to $20 mill/yr for Santana, and frankly, it doesn't make financial sense for them to do so.

Santana is gone, it's just a matter of when.

by Bowser on Aug 1, 2007 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Twins

Aren't they getting a new stadium? That's always a large cash infusion into a ball club, and it'd be wise to hold onto Santana for the first few years of the park being open. I wouldn't be surprised to see them loosen the purse strings in anticipation of the new stadium.

by nyr2k2 on Aug 1, 2007 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You Forget

That they will add a #1 starter this offseason (assuming health).

I think the '08 Twins will have one of the best pitching staffs in the majors with Santana, Liriano, Garza, Bonser, and Baker in the rotation and Neshak and Nathan holding down the bullpen. Another year of maturation out of Mauer and Morneau and they aren't that far off - they just need to add a few bats in the MI and or OF.

Bravesin07 is so damn reactionary. I bet when his mother took him to the Dr., his leg kicked before the Dr. hit his knee with the reflex hammer. --slurve

by Dfarth on Aug 1, 2007 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

re:

"You Forget that they will add a #1 starter this offseason (assuming health)."

I'm sure you must mean Liriano. It's hard to know what he will be when he comes back. Part of the reason he was so dominant is that he threw his uber slider 40-50 times an outing. That's excessive and he may need to dial that down to maintain health. If forced to use his other pitches much more will he have the level of command to be a #1 starter? Hard to know. There is a reason there are so few #1's. It takes filthy stuff and very refined command.

by McLovin on Aug 1, 2007 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

By That

I just meant that they were going to add a major piece in the offseason without losing anything. He has shown the potential to be a #1 but obviously we wont know if he can get back to that level and maintain it until next season...

Bravesin07 is so damn reactionary. I bet when his mother took him to the Dr., his leg kicked before the Dr. hit his knee with the reflex hammer. --slurve

by Dfarth on Aug 1, 2007 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If I were the Twins i'd deal him

for Hughes and Chamberlain.

by Bravesin07 on Aug 1, 2007 2:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

huh?

You'd trade the best pitcher in the game for two prospects? I'm sure the Twins would want some proven talent as well...

by nyr2k2 on Aug 1, 2007 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd trade him for A-Rod

And a pitching prospect.

Talkin' Sports

by BlackOps on Aug 1, 2007 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ha

If they're gonna get A-rod, they'd be better off resigning Santana

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Aug 2, 2007 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A-Rod

Does anyone really think that A-Rod would play in Minnesota? Zero endorsement possibilites. He will stay in NY or go to the angels.

dadrsfan

by dadrsfan on Aug 2, 2007 11:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

RE: Arod

He'll probably be headed somewhere to the west coast, but I think he's going to the Giants, Angels, possibly the Dodgers, or maybe even back to Seattle.

The Giants will have a ton of money coming off the books this year, and will need a new face of the franchise when Bonds is done. Also, they should start looking to get younger, and with nothing but Feliz (in the minors and majors) at 3B, it would make sense.

The have the money to do so, and have shown the capability to taken on monster contracts: ie, Zito. It seems as though it could be a good fit. Then again, I doubt Arod would want to go to a rebuilding team.

"Standard disclaimer: it's baseball, even if he's cooked, someone'll overpay." -drjayphd

by JT12340 on Aug 2, 2007 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Another Option

The NL Central leading Chicago Cubs. :) Once their ownership situation is finally worked out, (hello Mark Cuban) we can stick him back where he belongs at SS. Mahalo

Matt

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

by WayneCampbell05 on Aug 3, 2007 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought about that, but with the amount of money

they committed to hitting, and the amount they're going to spend to resign Zambrano, I don't think they'll go for Arod. It would be nice to see him in a Cubbies jersey though...

"When Justin Upton faces Lincecum, I think Christ might appear in the heavens, and the world will end." -JakeFree

by JT12340 on Aug 3, 2007 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mark Cuban

is simply not going to happen. He needs the owners approval and with his antics in the NBA, I don't see it. There is a minority owner of the Brewers (his name escapes me at the moment) who is pretty much a sure thing. He's a Chicago businessman with financial backing from the likes of the founder of CDW and others. Oh yeah, he's also buddy-buddy with Selig.

I also don't think this whole change is going to play out in time for them to sign him - meaning they may let Zambrano walk as well. Hopefully I'm wrong, but it doesn't look good.

by slurve on Aug 3, 2007 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Theres still a good chance that

he stays on with the Yankees anyway, Aramis Rameriez fired a ton of smoke only to resign with the Cubs. and at least this year he's not hated or anything . and only a blind man would not see his value.

Yankese have Clemens off the book and could simply not exercise Abreu's option if they REALLY need Cash that badly.. they could also try to dump Damon too if they eat a portion of the salary it's hard to see how they could not scrap togethr more money than anyone even without upping their current salary. not to meantion a hoard of player come off the books in 08, Giambi, Mussina , Pettitte , Pavano (oh yeah he's still there) Abreu if they exercise the option .

With there system now being able to cover a lot more roster space than it use to, it's hard to see the Yankees not landing anyone they TRUELY want in a FA bidding war.

by RollingWave on Aug 3, 2007 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT!!!

How could can Sabean be if his minor league system SUCKS and he signs washed-up, old veterans and builds this team around Barry Bonds.

Have they got any other prospects besides Lincecum, who was promoted?

We, the Yankees have a system, as well as Boston (as much as I hate to admit it) and the Mets. We have good teams, on varying degrees, and also have money.

--Bobby Mcnally (alias)

by bobbymcnally on Aug 3, 2007 5:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bob

You speak as if the GM has nothing to do with the farm system ?

For one, he has controll over personal down there, for two, he has the last say on draft picks and negotiation with the guys they drafted, and whats more ,signing FAs until they retire is also bad for the farm.

As for money, he doesn't have Yankee / Red Sox money yes, but he's certainly spending fairly close to the Dodger's range. and more than the Padres. and wayyy more than the Rockies / D-backs, so what does that say about them finsihign last in their own division?

by RollingWave on Aug 4, 2007 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs