Comparison
I want to get your opinions about something.
Here is the link to the Minor League Baseball scouting report about Phillipe Aumont. Please watch his video.
Now, here is a link to the scouting report about Florida high school pitcher Nevin Griffith. Please watch the video.
Is it just me, or does Griffith look better in his video than Aumont looks in his? To my eye at least, Nevin looks smoother and looser on the mound...his delivery looks better to me intuitively. He doens't throw quite as hard but his velocity is still plenty and I like his breaking ball.
I'm not saying anything negative about Aumont, he looks great too. But is Griffith underrated? Baseball America has him as a possible supplemental pick, but frankly I wouldn't be afraid to pop Griffith in the later half of the first round. Am I nuts? What do the pitching experts around here think?
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Not that surprising...
he's right-handed...
He was talking about Bumgarner
I was talking about Bumgarner...
Don't look I look folish...
Aumont...
But you rarely find me a fan of taller pitchers...
I like Griffith's mechanics after a specific point, but I'm thinking his ridiculously long arms are messing with my perception there. He definitely looks like one of the more impressive arms I've seen in this pretty impressive HS draft.
Shhh. i pick at 37.
Variables Don't; Constants Aren't
by overlord on Jun 2, 2007 4:16 PM EDT reply actions
Aumont vs Griffith
Griffith's action is pretty long, but he doesnt seem to have any problems repeating his delivery and is very athletic. I think he's good enough to go in the 21-30 range and should be a very good pick in the supplemental round.
I pretty much agree
Maybe,...
Griffith shows the ball
Regardless, that's something I think a team could fix if it's a problem.
ditto...
You know what though, when you watch their deliveries from the side, Amount looks better and Griffen's delivery looks funky...
Aumont's
Griffith
He has good mechanics and has big time heat. His breaking ball has the potential to be a dominant pitch.
I'd be happy if the Cardinals took him at 36.
Well....
by uga007 on Jun 2, 2007 5:14 PM EDT reply actions
My Take
Like several other tall pithers in this draft including Brackman, Beavan Bumgarner and even Porcello, Aumont largely negates his height advantage with a low arm angle. Watch Aumont. He never gets his hand above his ear. The other thing I notice about him that is similar to the other pitchers I mentioned is he never extends his arm. He just brings his hand back behind his ear and then kind of slings the ball. Does that protect his shoulder, or does it compensate for a weak shoulder? Of all of the great HOF caliber pitchers I can think of, only RJ slings the ball like that. Everyone else is over-the-top. I guess RJ proves that it can be done, but is he just a freak of nature?
Over-the-top deliveries give a better dowward plane to the fastball and allow for better downward break on the curve and slider. Also, alternative secondary pitches like the splitter and knuckle curve almost have to be delivered from over-the-top.
Griffith appears to be basically stronger, more athletic. He has a higher arm slot. He gets fantastic extension. I'm picking up from other comments that he might need some work on using his legs and meshing his leg work with his delivery, but that seems a lot more teachable to me than completely reworking Aumont's arm slot. Again, I wonder if Griffith's extension and arm slot signify a stronger shoulder or does it expose his shoulder to injury? If an over-the-top delivery is riskier for the shoulder, how come so many HOF caliber pitchers with long careers use it and not get injured?
In short, I love what I see of Nevin Griffith and would be ecstatic if the Giants took him late first or early supplemental round.
Addendum
I'm not sure Aumont is really 5 inches taller. Griffith is listed at 6'2" in the milb.com scouting report, but he looks taller and I've seen him listed at 6'4" in other references.
Well...
Yeah
Oh no...
I was addressing his belief that most HOFers are overhand pitchers. They're more over the top than Aumont, but few are straight over the top guys.
As a giants fan I
by bartonboi on Jun 2, 2007 5:50 PM EDT reply actions
Griffith
Aumont may also be overrated though, this trend by the scouts to find guys that are 8ft tall and think that means they have unlimited upside is dumb.
There are alot more "short" dominant pitchers in MLB than there are 6"7 NBA small forward types. This new obsession with height is so over valued, it makes no sense. Take Brackman as another example, if he was 6"2 he wouldn't even sniff the top half of the first round this year, maybe not even round 1. But say 6"10 and the scouts start falling all over themselves.
Meh.
Thanks John
questions
From what I understand, mechanics can be changed. But are they generally only altered when it interferes with a players chance at good health?
I agree that Griffith's very smooth in his arm motion, much less stressful looking on his shoulder than Aumont. (But from the side shots on Aumont he has some that look very fluid, and some that look herky-jerky...I wonder what the pitches are)
So on Griffith I notice:
- His right arms loop doesn't start going straight back, it goes toward the first base side and then back around his head and down. My concern is that it pulls his shoulder in too many directions and could injure it. Is this a motion that would be cause for concern? One that would need to be changed? Or is it under control?
- The side shots don't look very consistent, he lunges longer at times than others (is this useful in any way? does that effect his control?
- Also from the side shot, his left knee seems to snap straight as he throws. When I simulate this is feels stressed, is this a cause for concern or proper mechanics to generate power? I also noticed this in Aumonts side shots, but only in the first two, the rest of them he seems to keep his knee a little bent when he snaps.
Griffith
Griffin
My opinion
Aumont's fastball movement was noticeable in the video, Griffith I didn't see at all. Aumont was not consistent with his breaking ball on the couple they show, but he did flash a pretty tight one early in the video. Griffith's was an early breaker. Not that this can't be tightened up but I think Aumont's breaking ball is ahead of Griffith's at this point.
Personally, I think too many people focus on arm action and arm angle at release. The last ditch adjustment mechanically is to start screwing with arm slot and release point. I would certainly not sacrifice the obvious movement Aumont has to get his arm up to "take advantage of his heighth".
I certianly agree
I do think the projectability thing is overated however, at least regarding these 2. I see 2 pitchers with nice size and nice arms but, I too like Aumonts delivery better. I fel like Aumonts super long arm action is EXTEMELY risky without any real decelaration of the arm after release.
Not that I dont like him though. he has a great arm and looks like a lot of short relievers pitching today which is a good possibilty he could end as if he has success and stays healthy. Just a feeling from the clip though...I like Aumonts arm strength and I even like the arm angle. He is going to be tough to hit.
For what it's worth...
My thoughts
I am not a huge fan of Aumont's mechanics, but the fact that he stays so compact tells me that an organization can tinker with his delivery a bit without losing velocity or hurting his command. I'd have him ditch the almost-stretch setup he starts with and go to a short step-back before driving everything toward the plate. This should give the entire delivery more balance and ultimately will raise his arm slot by an inch, maybe two because of where his legs are underneath him. It might even raise his velocity 1-2 mph once muscle memory kicks in.

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