Thanks for the support, abbreviatedman! :-)  

I too put the cutoff point at 30, as you'll see below.  In my opinion, I think TT wanted to keep Hafner out with his under-27 age limit because that definitely shifts the odds in the Indians' favor.  :-)

I'm going to post several times to keep my posts small, but there is a lot to address and a lot that I disagree with, especially regarding TT's post:

TT - I'll grant you Mauer over all three because of what he is doing right now, but Morneau and Kubel?  No offense, Morneau still has holes in his swing, though his power is finally starting to show up, but he can still be exploited on offspeed pitches on the outer half - I doubt he becomes the next Travis Hafner, who can handle the entire plate and has as much pure power as Morneau, plus can hit over .300, something Morneau hasn't shown yet, and is not projected to be a .300 hitter based on his Minor League stats.

As for Kubel, it's nice to see that he came back from the torn ACL and is hitting well, but he hasn't even done what Peralta has done yet - have one full good season; you're basing what he'll do on speculation.  Let's wait and see him have one full good season first before we even consider him better or even equal to Peralta.  Plus, Peralta plays a more premium position than Kubel does, which gives Peralta a bit of an edge in terms of overall value.

No offense, Cuddyer is a decent player, but the guy is not the great player most expected him to be just a few years ago.  If he keeps up his current production, he'll probably be considered an above-average player, but not a "great" player, like he and Restovich were considered when they were coming up through the Twins Minor League system several years ago.

It's ironic that you put the cutoff point at 27, since Hafner is older than 27 (he just turned 29 less than a month ago - that's hardly old; he would still be considered younger rather than older.)  Well, I'll include anyone under 30 like abbreviatedman did, since most ML players and prospects can be productive under the age of 30, so Hafner can be included in my list, and that certainly favors the Indians.

Plus, Victor Martinez is 27 for the 2006 season, so you have to include him in your list, based on your own criteria.

While Martinez can't match Mauer defensively, offensively, he has comparable hitting skills (he's struggled through more inconsistency this year than in the past, but he has hit extremely well for long periods - he hit over .400 the final 2-3 months of 2005,) plus he can hit for power, something Mauer has not shown yet.

As for Hafner, I doubt Morneau becomes the next Hafner in terms of his total offensive package.  As for Kubel, it remains to be seen, but duplicating Hafner won't be easy, even for Kubel.  If he comes close, the Twins should be thrilled with that.

Therefore, I don't think this statement is accurate:

"I don't really think Cleveland is in the competition."

Add in Garko, Marte, Gutierrez, and Francisco (all at AAA) to match Tiffee and Bartlett for depth and the Indians match pretty well with the Twins.  It's not a slam dunk for the Twins in my opinion.

Just my 2 cents.

More to come in my next post; stay tuned! :-)

This will be a slightly longer post - please bear with me - thanks! :-)

TT - these statements:  

"The Twins only have three pitchers on the roster who 25 and under, Crain, Liriano and Bonser. They have guys in the minors, but that wasn't the question. But Cleveland doesn't have a single pitcher under 25 as good as any of those three and no starters at all."

They are false in my opinion.

Crain?!  He has the following line:

47 H in 34.2 IP, a 5.19 ERA, a 1.53 WHIP, and a .315 BAA; he will also turn 25 on July 5.

Fausto Carmona, who's only 22, has this line:

33.1 IP, 36 H, a 4.86 ERA, a 1.38 WHIP, and a .279 BAA; he won't turn 23 until Dec. 2006.

Plus, Carmona has both started and relieved, whereas Crain is only a reliever.  I think Carmona has certainly been better than Crain to this point, and he's about 2.5 years younger than Crain.  Advantage - Carmona.

Liriano - I'll grant you him; Adam Miller may be the only one in the Indians' system at this point who can match him (possibly Chuck Lofgren at High-A; he's 20 years old and has struck out 70 in 76 IP) and Miller's having a decent year at AA at this point.  His continued good health is a good sign, along with an increasing strikeout rate (87 K in 89.0 IP) toward his previous levels of over a K/IP.

Bonser - nice pitcher, but his line reminds me of Carmona's a bit:

36 H in 32.2 IP, 4.68 ERA, 1.35 WHIP, .288 BAA; plus, Bonser is 24, will be 25 in Oct. 2006, over 2 years older than Carmona.

As abbreviatedman already mentioned, you can't forget about Fernando Cabrera.  Yes, he's had control issues this year due to problems with his mechanics, but has still put up this line:

23 H in 26.1 IP, 5.81 ERA, 1.59 WHIP, .247 BAA

Regarding K rates,

Crain has struck out 30 in 34.2 IP;
Cabrera has struck out 27 in 26.1 IP.

Cabrera is also a few months younger than Crain and still has an arguably higher ceiling than Crain if he can keep consistent mechanics - Cabrera dominated last year, Crain did not, and neither is dominating this year, though Cabrera's stats are improving, while I believe Crain's are declining (didn't Crain have a better K/9 IP rate to start the year?!  It's not even a K/IP now.  Cabrera, despite his difficulties, is still striking out over a batter an inning.)  Advantage - Cabrera.

Also, abbreviatedman mentioned Sowers.  Now, granted, no one will mistake Sowers for Liriano, but in time, Sowers should be a good #3, possibly even a solid #2 if/when he learns to command his pitches effectively at the ML level and learns how to attack hitters.  I like to compare him to Jamie Moyer in the way he attacks hitters, and actually, Sowers had a higher K/9 IP rate in the Minors than Moyer ever did.  

Hopefully, it won't take Sowers nearly as long as it did Moyer to figure out how to be dominant.  I think his ceiling could be higher than that of Bonser's, who only found consistency recently after several years in both the Giants and Twins' farm systems.

TT - I could be mistaken, but if I recall correctly, aren't you a Twins fan?  :-)

Look, the Twins have a good system - there's no doubt about that.  Is it significantly better than the Indians' system?  I don't think so, especially after Liriano really can't be considered part of that system anymore since it's unlikely he'll see the Minors again unless it's on a rehab assignment.

The Indians can match the depth of the Twins' farm system, something I've said before, and something I still believe.

While many Twins' fans mention Anthony Swarzak, Jay Rainville, Matt Garza, Kevin Slowey, etc., the Indians can counter with Adam Miller, Tony Sipp, Chuck Lofgren, Joe Ness, Scott Lewis, Jensen Lewis, Sean Smith, Andrew Brown, Ronald "Bear" Bay, Aaron Laffey, etc.  

Not to mention position players like Trevor Crowe, John Drennen, Wyatt Toregas, Brad Snyder, Ryan Garko, Andy Marte, etc., an area that the Twins' farm system needs to improve upon, as abbreviatedman mentioned.  

Peralta, Sizemore, Cabrera, Carmona are all under 25 - those four alone should keep the Indians in the competition.  Actually, Sabathia doesn't turn 26 until the end of July, so he's still in the 25-age range - that definitely narrows the advantage for the Twins, as Sabathia has shown that the second half of 2005 was no fluke.  He has shown that he can match Santana and Liriano's dominating performances, and he's over 2 years younger than Santana.

Add Martinez, only 27, into that mix, and that improves their chances.  Add Hafner, who's still under 30 at 29, and that further improves their chances of having the best young talent at the ML-level.

Just my 5 cents. :-)

As you've already admitted, you're definitely biased towards the Twins when you put "Best Answer" next to the Twins choice.  :-)

Plus, you only put down Sizemore and Peralta; you forgot Sabathia, Cabrera, Carmona, Sowers, and Gutierrez, as all are under 25.  You put down 4 in your list for the Twins - that shows a little bit of biased behavior as well.

You certainly could have put Sabathia and either Cabrera or Carmona as two other choices to make it a bit more fair.  Or were you afraid that more people might have chosen the Indians if you listed 4 Indians instead, LOL! :-)

I think I have provided enough reasons to show that the Twins are not the best choice.

Take care and have a great day!

I meant to say

"Plus, you only put down Sizemore and Peralta; you forgot Sabathia, Cabrera, Carmona, Sowers, and Gutierrez, as all are 25 or younger."

Sabathia is still 25, so in my opinion, he still counts in your poll.

Take care and have a great day!