Heads will roll in the Bronx

by the pinstripes on Oct 7, 2006 6:43 PM EDT Comment 73 comments

I hate to be posting a diary such as this but as was the case the past few seasons the Yanks have been unceremoniously bounced from the postseason. (I know it hasn't officially happened but it will.)

This is no shock to me. We can't pitch. We can't play defense. We can't do any of the little things that win ball games in the post season. That's a fact.

The question is which players do they look to unload? Which players can they unload? Should they start with Torre?

Bottom line, what a mess!

Poll

What do you think should happen?

Randy Johnson, Carl Pavano & Jaret Wright should be executed!

31 votes

A combination of the 3

14 votes

All of the above

6 votes

All of the above plus much, much more!

57 votes

Alex Rodriguez should be traded!

24 votes

Joe Torre should be fired!

9 votes

141 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 73 comments

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Comments

i'd gladly take pavano on the phillies

as long as the yanks pick up a portion of his salary.

it's a bad strategy to base your lineup on the relative beauty of a man's outs rather than the rate at which he makes them.

by overlord on Oct 7, 2006 6:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd make this deal in a second

It's time to cut bait with underacheivers. This team has been plagued by underachievement, and much like your Phillies, it's time to blow it up partially.

by OneHitWonder on Oct 7, 2006 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pavano

Pavano is a joke in NY, amongst the fans, media and even his own teammmates.

Any deal that would get him out of NY, I'd do it.

by Stephcaflowne on Oct 7, 2006 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As a Yankees fan and former A-Rod supporter, I hope the Yankees can deal him over the winter. It's sad that it's come to this but at this point, it's just hard to root for him. I know he's a great player but I just don't like him anymore.

And I'd like to see Ervin Santana in pinstripes next year.

by Stephcaflowne on Oct 7, 2006 6:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ervin Santana

I would love to see this also. I don't know how we can make this happen though. What would be a good fit? Would they take A-Rod?

"Baseball is 90% mental, the other half is physical" - Yogi Berra

by the pinstripes on Oct 7, 2006 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

if

i was bill stoneman I'd be looking into it. Arod and Vlad would solve a lot of problems. We have the pitching depth and to be honest, Santana is a good young pitcher, but not a great one.

by Team Moneyball on Oct 7, 2006 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"WE"?

not trying to start a flame war, but how is someone w/ Team Moneyball referring to the Angels as "WE"?

by SoCalSoxFan on Oct 7, 2006 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Very Dissapointing

As a yankee fan, it was very dissapointing, but this series wasn't as painful like the last two years. Nevertheless, the yankees do need to make significant changes towards this team. If that includes trading a-rod then they have too. sheffield will be let go which is finally. As for the pitching that have to make hughe changes their as well. look lidle will be gone. pavano who knows, johnson is basically a 4th starter right know in his carrer. wright is tradable (one year in his contract left). my perspective is this, they need a big pitcher is year, also by mid to late june, and he pitches well in AAA(yea you who he is) he SHOULD be with the yankees, even Jim callis who's not a yankee lover often said he should be here.(he's better than wright, lidle and any specific yankee starter in the back end. they need to trade farnsworth(trust me some sucker of a team will take him with his 100mph heat) As for a-rod, i think the best place to trade him is to the LA Dodgers, or any specific nl team but I trade him to the dodgers. As for torre, I love him and he should be on the team. Anyway, they should fix the staff in the pitching completely, and get rid of some these star players. that's my perspective in this thank you.

by NYYLover1000 on Oct 7, 2006 7:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

IMO

Alex Rodriquez belonged in Los Angeles a long time ago ... his persona fits the city much better than than in the rabid fan base of NY, besides we can handle a "fake" personality, see Bryant, Kobe.

That said, I find it pretty hard to see the Yankees moving ARod and getting better as a result, as much as the fans/media may want it, Cashman's no dummy.

The problem with the Yankees is that they haven't gotten the many breaks since 2001. They also need to develop more starting pitching, which takes time, not every pitcher comes along like Wang and is good immediatly. Can the NY fans let a young pitcher struggle for a couple years, like for example Jeremy Bonderman?

Starting Jeret Wright in an elimination game is a joke, $200m payroll or not.

by sanchez101 on Oct 7, 2006 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also

when it comes to pitching, I know this is going to be difficult to find some pitching but, I know this would be difficult but the cubs would like to change that staff right, wood and prior would be avaliable. Now the yanks don't want wood but instead prior, now prior would be more difficult to get because the cubs feel that prior has a chance while wood has none, but if gave them a deal that's good, I would take prior right, then if a-rod waive his no trade clause, trade him to LA, for........................Bronxton, kershaw, benimint, and kemp which I doubt they trade but him or Ethier. Look your not going to get equal value for a-rod so do the best you can. What you think of idea guys. Sound good to me.

by NYYLover1000 on Oct 7, 2006 7:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

you missed a choice

...and that would be replacing Cashman.

A couple of summers back, signing Pavano and Wright to multi-year deals after one flash of success, has really handcuffed the Yankees. Unless I missed the news stories about that being Boss driven (and I could have), then that falls squarely on his shoulders. Also the yankees won from building from within - they haven't done that in 6 years. Once they get back to that - things will get back on track.

That is in stark comparison to the other team in the city....whose time is now. Ironically, it is an ex-Yankee and a couple homegrown stars that are leading them. :-)

by akk99 on Oct 7, 2006 7:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not on Cash

Cashman didn't want these guys, he was told he would sign them. The only reason Cash stayed is because he now has more say in personnel.

by slurve on Oct 7, 2006 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Plus,

Besides, Mark Prior is a hughe risk yes we know that, but if healthy he can help obvioulsy, plus he can teach a guy hughes how to pitch(after all most scouts compare hughes to prior anyway). Bronxton can really help this team, benimint can play third, kershaw would help us down the road, and ethier, can really help us. Plus I like him alot but not signing mussina wouldn't be so bad. I mean look if you into next year with a staff with Prior, Wang, Zito, Johnson, and Hughes that is not so bad if not really good. Look i,m trying to think like a GM here so I,m trying to find adequate ideas for my New York Yankees.

by NYYLover1000 on Oct 7, 2006 7:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

rules

Kershaw is a 1st year player. He can't be traded until next June.

Not only that, but I doubt the Dodgers want to give up their future to overpay ARod when they have LaRoche and Betemit as their future 3B's.

Rays in '08....

by youALREADYknow on Oct 7, 2006 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not like they'll trade the Yankees Laroche anyways

It's almost automatic that the Rays will probably get him in a trade anyways....

by The Rocc on Oct 7, 2006 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

LA

Broxton, Betemit, Kershaw, and Ethier for ARod? Why not wait 12 months and trade that package for Miggy Cabrera?

by sanchez101 on Oct 7, 2006 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trade A-Rod?

Just face it.. you can't trade A-Rod.

His contract limits him to 3-4 teams in all of baseball and the likely prospects you'll get in return have a 25% chance of being everyday players for the overspending Yankees who expect to win now every year.

The Yanks have another year or two before they need to blow up the roster and "go young". All they need to do this offseason is get one of Zito/Schmidt/Matsuzaka, put Hughes in the rotation, and teach Sheff how to field at 1st.

Now I'll just pray that none of the above happen... go Rays.

Rays in '08....

by youALREADYknow on Oct 7, 2006 7:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

arod

with the money the yankees get from texas A-Rod is a relative bargain, why pay 16 mil for soriano when you can have A-Rod instead?

by bmxstreetrider86 on Oct 7, 2006 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Alex Rodriguez Contract Question

I'm glad a diary like this was created, so I could maybe get my A-Rod contract question answered. To the best of my understanding, this is his current contract status:

Owed $27 million every season through 2010

First number is year, second number is amount paid by Texas annually, third number is amount of deferred money Texas will eventually pay, and fourth number is the new total yearly salary owed to Rodriguez.

$7 million + (4 deferred) = 16
$7 million + (5 deferred) = 15
$8 million + (5 deferred) = 14
$6 million + (5 deferred) = 16

I've got a feeling I've screwed up along the way, but I'm not sure what information I'm missing. Anybody out there with updated info or a link to an article better explaining everything?

by roboz on Oct 7, 2006 7:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Glad the yankees lost.

The yankees are more of an embarassment on baseball than steroids. Nothing can be worse for baseball than the yankees winning and proving that the world series is up for sale.

If they won they might as well have just put the 2007 world series on ebay and let Georgie buy it directly since he isnt intrested in winning it.

by cajunrevenge on Oct 7, 2006 7:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

yanks

I'm glad, too. I don't want to read even more stories about small-market teams being unable to compete.

Including this season, there have seven different World Series winners over the past seven seasons, and yet fans and the mainstream media consistently say that it's all about spending more than $100 million dollars and building taxpayer-subsidized stadiums.

It's a joke. Inept management has been the only thing stopping Pittsburgh and Kansas City from building playoff-caliber teams.

by bolton on Oct 7, 2006 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What's stopping the Blue Jays?

A little stat, the postseasons from 2003 - 2005 consisted of five small market teams. The Twins went twice, the Athletics went once, the White Sox went once, the Marlins went once, and the Padres went once. That's a total of six postseason spots out of twenty four. A whole lot of success by small market teams.

by Angels and Demons on Oct 7, 2006 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

re: what's stopping the blue jays

Thanks for the stat. Smart GM with money should beat smart GM without money MOST of the time. I just have a hard time believing smart GM would post 15 straight losing seasons regardless of payroll.

I don't follow the Blue Jays too closely, but they had bad luck with Halladay's health in the years before this one, they made ill-advised free agent signings (Koskie, Burnett and, in my opinion, Ryan) and they've got a weak farm system.

The Jays were playoff caliber this season --- they just didn't make it. If they had a shortstop, they probably would have won more than 90 games. If Burnett could have stayed healthy (a big if), who knows?

by bolton on Oct 7, 2006 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks, Bolton

This is about the last place on the Web I expected to hear this old canard.

Here are the top payrolls this season as of April 7. I've bolded the teams that made the playoffs. Draw your own conclusions.

1      New York Yankees      $194,663,079
2     Boston Red Sox     $120,099,824
3     Los Angeles Angels     $103,472,000
4     Chicago White Sox     $102,750,667
5     New York Mets     $101,084,963
6     Los Angeles Dodgers     $98,447,187
7     Chicago Cubs     $94,424,499
8     Houston Astros     $92,551,503
9     Atlanta Braves     $90,156,876
10     San Francisco Giants     $90,056,419
11     St. Louis Cardinals     $88,891,371
12     Philadelphia Phillies     $88,273,333
13     Seattle Mariners     $87,959,833
14     Detroit Tigers     $82,612,866
15     Baltimore Orioles     $72,585,582
16     Toronto Blue Jays     $71,915,000
17     San Diego Padres     $69,896,141
18     Texas Rangers     $68,228,662
19     Minnesota Twins     $63,396,006
20     Washington Nationals     $63,143,000
21     Oakland Athletics     $62,243,079
22     Cincinnati Reds     $60,909,519
23     Arizona Diamondbacks     $59,684,226
24     Milwaukee Brewers     $57,568,333
25     Cleveland Indians     $56,031,500
26     Kansas City Royals     $47,294,000
27     Pittsburgh Pirates     $46,717,750
28     Colorado Rockies     $41,233,000
29     Tampa Bay Devil Rays     $35,417,967
30     Florida Marlins     $14,998,500

by whichthat on Oct 7, 2006 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

reds

Another low-payroll team, the Reds, probably would have made the playoffs it its GM hadn't traded a chunk of offense for Bill Bray.

by bolton on Oct 7, 2006 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damn...

The Rays chopped a huge piece of payroll off getting rid of Huff, Hendrickson and Lugo

by The Rocc on Oct 7, 2006 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A-Rod for pitching

They need younger, more durable starters. Maybe trade him and 1/2 the contract for Mark Buehrle.

by asinwreck on Oct 7, 2006 8:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

why?

y would the yankees do this trade?

by akk99 on Oct 8, 2006 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have the best idea

Contract the entire Yank-me organization. All they do is skew the FA market and bitch every year because they were unable to buy a championship. Wah! We lost, that's unacceptable, wah!!! And now back to your normally scheduled booing of a future HOF'er that posted yet another OPS abover 900 this year. Pa-thet-ic.

by slurve on Oct 7, 2006 8:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No, the best idea

is another team in the NY/NJ metro area. The city has outgrown 2 teams, and the money available to both of them is reaching silly levels. Even if you presume a 3rd team would suck for a decade, they would still draw money away from way too many deep pockets that don't necessarily deserve it...

by joeficarra on Oct 7, 2006 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

At least .....

The Yanks spend the money on their team. Not like a lot of revenue sharing teams that bank the proceeds. I don't believe money can but championships. It can do equally as much to hurt as it can to help.

"Baseball is 90% mental, the other half is physical" - Yogi Berra

by the pinstripes on Oct 7, 2006 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm a Mets fan...

And the Yankees are the best thing in baseball. They provide the villain, with their massive payroll and glittering lineup. Yankees-Red Sox is also the biggest draw the sport has, and last I checked, small market clubs still hand out crappy contracts. It's not the Yankees fault.

It is, however, A-Rod's. He is poison in the Yankee clubhouse, because of his feud with Jeter. He also choked this postseason, and if you watch the Yankees play regularly (and I do), he really doesn't come through in the clutch all that often. I'm aware of the numbers, but my experiential opinion says that Rodriguez is the master of the add-on run. All of that is really irrelevant, as the fact is that he simply will never be accepted in New York, and he is a player who's fragile psyche needs coddling.

The best solution to the Yankees problem is to 1) Sign Matsuzaka. He's the best available starting pitcher.
2) Sign Moose to a 2 year deal. He's NY proven, wants to stay, and if the price isn't outrageous (about 8M-10M), he's ok. 3) Sign Andy Pettitte. His presence and work ethic will be invaluable in rubbing off on 4) Johnny Broxton, who is acquired along with James Loney and Wilson Betemit for A-Rod (as the Yankees assume 3-5M of A-Rod's contract for the remainder of its life). If the Yanks can resign Sheffield on the cheap, I would actually favor it, but that's not likely to happen. It would also add to the logjam of position players. Players like Pavano and Farnsworth should be moved, but the Yanks should keep Wright, who generally improved as the season wore on and is in a contract year next season. Wright is also popular in the clubhouse for being tough, and it will be important to establish a new culture around the club.

A rotation of Matsuzaka, Wang, Pettitte, Unit, and Moose, with Wright and Hughes waiting in the wings may seem like overkill. But, it affords the Yanks protection against the age of their staff (similar to the plan in 2003). Hopefully, this could be of some help - i'm rather tired and hopefully this is coherent.

by GuyinNY on Oct 8, 2006 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yankees lose-again

I can't say I am at all disappointed that the Yankees got rolled out of the playoffs again. Their pitching was certainly not of championship caliber, but their vaunted offense got silenced by some young power arms. Granted, Bonderman threw the game of his life, but the Yankees don't have a single pitcher capable of doing the same (at least not on the ML roster) as far as I can see.
Alas, this is a team that will not tear anything down. They will reload and be right back in the mix for the playoffs next year. Consider:
C Posada-he's still capable of getting on base, and he's clearly better than 80% of the catchers out there.
1b-Sheffield/Giambi. They'll pick up Sheff's option as insurance for the oft banged up Giambi.
2b- Cano. Much better than I thought he'd be, and is likely the only player in the starting lineup under 30.
ss-Jeter. I'm no fan of Jeter, but he stays healthy, gets on base, has improved to average or just below on defense and seems to have a lot left.
3b- Arod. THere will be howls to deal him this offseason (and I'll love hearing them, because Yankee fans just don't know what the hell they are talking about-he's still an elite player who had a marginally off year-for his standards), but there is likely to be a very small market for that contract. I know the Yankees only pay 17 mil or so for awhile, but who can afford that? I hope they do deal him, because they'll get pennies on the dollar trying to dump salary on someone, and the shoe will finally be on the other foot. Maybe the Phillies would deal them back the minor leaguers they gave up for Abreu. Good luck finding a team willing to give you even 1 youngish major league star (or someone who breaks into the Yankee lineup) for Arod.
lf-Matsui-not going anywhere, but likely declining with age and that wrist.
cf-Damon-he has played much better than I thought he would this year, but by this time next year, he'll be an anchor on the payroll. The Red Sox were right about Pedro, and they're right on Damon.
rf-Abreu
dh-Giambi/SHeffield
THey'll work Cabrera in as a 4th OFer, but that lineup is still among the best in baseball.
The pitching, on the other hand, needs a major overhaul. They'll bring Moose back on some kind of 2/30 or 3/40 type move, are stuck with RJ (the mighty have officially fallen), and still have Wang, who will be Carlos Silva in 2007.
THe pen is Proctor, Villone, Rivera and ?
That leaves:
RJ
Wang
Mussina
FA #1 (likely Matzusaka, Zito or Schmidt)
FA #2 (likely a stopgap type, a Gil Meche or Jon Lieber to bide time for Hughes to find his niche by July).

THe pen is:
Rivera
Villone
PRoctor
Farnsworth
Myers

They'll try to upgrade the setup crew, but finding a long reliever or 2 shouldn't be that hard.

I see them spending the offseason targeting a deal for Moose and another stud starter. Aside from that, I don't think they can do much.

THey still have too much talent to be anything but the favorite in the AL East for 2007, but solace can be found in the image of Arod, Jeter and Torre staring blankly at the celebrating Tigers and pining for the days when they weren't watching other teams jump up and down.
Oh, and wondering about the memo George is drafting right about....now
JAS

by jasvlm on Oct 7, 2006 9:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

explain

how wang will all of a sudden become carlos silva? i can see some regression to around 4.00 ERA, but that still a pretty good AL pitcher

by bmxstreetrider86 on Oct 7, 2006 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Matsui

The dude broke his wrist, that's not a long-term injury. He'll be fine.

by OneHitWonder on Oct 7, 2006 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

P.S.

Does anyone else think Brian Bruney is the one shining light that came out of this tragedy. I think this guy could be a diamond in the rough. Possibly he and J.B. Cox could turn out for the Bombers.

"Baseball is 90% mental, the other half is physical" - Yogi Berra

by the pinstripes on Oct 7, 2006 9:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Eh

I think Proctor is more legit then Bruney.

Bruney might stick around but I think he's more of a flash in the pan. Not expecting much out of him next season.

by Stephcaflowne on Oct 7, 2006 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Proctor/Bruney/Bullpen

I'm not convinced that Bruney's overcome his control problems.

And I would feel a lot better about Proctor's chances if Torre hadn't abused him so much this year.

by sasquatch83 on Oct 7, 2006 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

me too

but his stuff is simply filthy, he threw a 98 MPH FB knee high on the inside corner that froze inge in the ALDS. i think he can be "around" the plate and still succeed even with a somewhat high walk rate

by bmxstreetrider86 on Oct 9, 2006 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

May I be the first to say...

Na Na Na Na
Na Na Na Na

Hey Hey Hey

Goodbye!

by The Rocc on Oct 7, 2006 10:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

More Bronx Narcissism

It's harsh when you only win ninety-seven games, tie for the best record in baseball, have the odds-on favorite for MVP at shortstop, and quite literally have an All-Star playing every position you have to play them.

I'm sure you envy those Kansas City fans, who don't have their hearts broken like this.

by NBarnes on Oct 8, 2006 12:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hahahaha

Couldn't have said it any better...

Did Cano even deserve the All-Star nod?

by The Rocc on Oct 8, 2006 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

cano

.325/.353/.439 pre all-star

by bmxstreetrider86 on Oct 8, 2006 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, cano is all-star worthy

I hate the yankees, but have you seen the rest of the 2b in the AL this year? They suck. Cano is already at the top at his position.

by AucklandGM on Oct 8, 2006 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

PARTY TIME!

by The Colonel on Oct 8, 2006 12:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

lets all overreact!

look, if you replayed the 5 game series, the yankees could sweep it. want to bet on kenny rogers doing that again? want to bet on bonderman doing that again? If they were that good, they wouldnt have ERA's over 4.

The yankees went cold while the tigers got hot, its that simple. it is not a flawed team, and you dont have to trade arod, you dont have to do anything besides add a starter, like matsuzaka. but you always need to add a starter. to every team.

they were the best team in baseball, and judging them based on 5 games is dumb.

although arod does sometimes piss me off...

by donniebaseballman on Oct 8, 2006 1:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm pretty sure Bonderman could do that again

He's really, really, really good.

by Goose on Oct 8, 2006 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rogers and Bonderman

done it all year dude.

wake up

by High Heater on Oct 8, 2006 3:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

they have not done it all year

Bonderman has not done it all year, he averages under 6 and a third per start, allows a hit per inning and has a 4.08 ERA and only won 14 games.

Rogers had 8 Ks vs the yankees, but averages 3 strikouts per start during the regular season, and his ERA wasn't much lower, 3.84.

and add in that this yankee team was the best lineup in baseball.

Nobody could reasonably expect a performance like they had, which is my point. they both had thier best starts of the entire year, thats why the yankees are home, not because of any flaw in the yankees.

by donniebaseballman on Oct 8, 2006 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

huh?

your telling me they wouldnt do this all over again and they got lucky?

puh-lease

tipicle Yankee fan

remove the stipe colored glasses

by High Heater on Oct 8, 2006 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes, lucky

they were lucky in that they just happened to both be at thier best in those two games. replay the series 100 times, and i believe the yankees win a 5 game series 70 times.

by donniebaseballman on Oct 9, 2006 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

like i said

take off the pin stipped sunglasses please.

by High Heater on Oct 9, 2006 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

good god

thats the most butchered spelling of a word ive ever seen

its spelled "typical" dude

if the yankees are so flawed and need drastic changes, how did they win the most games in baseball?

did they get lucky over the course of 162 games, or unlucky over the course of a 5 game series?

by nyybaseball99 on Oct 9, 2006 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hahahahaha

that's all I have to say.

That and they were facing RJ and Jaret Wright. Check the numbers.

I think you were alluding to it would be rare for a guy with a 3.8 era and a guy with a 4 era to beat a guy with 4.49 era (and and another with a 5 era.

RJ 5.00 era 6 1/3 innings
vs
Rogers 3.84 era 6 1/3 innings

I think it's safe to say most games Rogers would win with this big difference in era. To expect RJ to win or say it's a fluke Rogers won is insane IMO.

Wright 4.49 era 1.52 whip 4 2/3 innings per start
Bonderman 4.08 era 1.30 whip 6 1/3 innings per start

Not only does Bonderman have much more talent (so more ceiling to rise to) but his era is about a half point better with the peripherals better and almost 2 full innings more per start. oh and Bonderman had 202K to 64BB compared to 84K to 57BB. And you call this a fluke?

It's not the Yankees went cold and Tigers got hot. Simply when face to face better pitching wins. I really like Wang and Mussina even though neither are aces. But the rest are rotten.

by pedrophile on Oct 10, 2006 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Torre out, Piniella in acc. to NY Daily News!

Hello everyone,

While checking out ESPNews, they had a breaking news caption at the bottom of the screen.

According to the New York Daily News, the Yankees are expected to fire Torre, with another report suggesting that the Yankees are expected to hire Lou Piniella as his replacement. I don't know how reliable the NY Daily News is, but already, it seems that the wheels are turning in NY. It will be interesting to see how many radical changes the Yankees make in response to them not winning the WS for the 6th straight year.

FWIW.

Take care and have a great Sunday!

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Oct 8, 2006 2:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hilarity at it's finest

Why fire Torre, one of the best managers of all time, and then turn around hiring Lou?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Lou isn't that great of a manager. He's not really good at keeping team chemistry and he's the king of the BS excuses.

Wait, BS excuses...

Maybe he fits right in....

If they turn around and fire Cashman, I'm almost willing to say that the Devil Rays will win a world series before the Yankees do again.

by The Rocc on Oct 8, 2006 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Some of you seem to be misunderstanding

The Yankees finished with a record of 1-3.

That's the only thing that matters in New York.

by OneHitWonder on Oct 8, 2006 10:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The circus begins

If Torre really has been fired, then the Yankees are heading into the downward spiral that Yankee haters all yearn for. NOt because managers make a huge difference, but because the decisions will be coming from an overreactionary blowhard like Steinbrenner, instead of the reasoned leadership of their capable front office. I don't like or dislike Torre, but he did do a very solid job during his run here, winning 4 titles and making the postseason 9 straight. This year, with the injuries to Matsui and Sheffield and with that pitching staff, he still guided them to 97 wins. Sure, the talent is there, but he did an awesome managing job. George wants TOrre out, Pineilla in. THat's fine. Glad to see it, as a REd SOx fan. NExt, you'll see some money thrown around at "proven playoff heroes" and character guys with "good chemistry". I can't wait to see the roster moves.
Sorry, Yankee fans. You get his money, but when he pipes up, you also have to take his tantrums. This one won't be pretty.
JAS

by jasvlm on Oct 8, 2006 10:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well

this may or may not be the case but one thing's for sure. I would much have rather have Steinbrenner as the owner than Henry. You're making a bold statement for a fan of a team that has known failure intimately for the better part of a century. In other words, I'd be worried about your own house. It's quite a mess.

P.S. I was equally as glad when the Yanks bounced the Sox from the post season. What a happy day that was.

"Baseball is 90% mental, the other half is physical" - Yogi Berra

by the pinstripes on Oct 8, 2006 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

From a neutral party

(Mets fan),pinstripes - what is the problem with Henry? Or do you prefer Steinbrenner because of the open wallet?

From a personality standpoint alone, I would find it hard to prefer Steinbrenner.

by sasquatch83 on Oct 8, 2006 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Steinbrenner

I am merely stating that I like an owner with the desire to win so bad that he will spend the money on putting together the best team he can. When you hear of team owners pocketing revenue sharing checks it makes me thankful to have such an owner.

"Baseball is 90% mental, the other half is physical" - Yogi Berra

by the pinstripes on Oct 8, 2006 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok

I agree with what you say about Steinbrenner, although Henry isn't the best example of an owner who pockets revenue sharing checks.

I'm actually a little worried about the situation in Florida - if Florida improves next season, will it provoke other owners to try the same thing? I don't know if that would be good for the game.

by sasquatch83 on Oct 8, 2006 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Point taken

I wasn't trying to compare Henry to anyone really other than to point out that Steinbrenner will spend more money than Henry would.

"Baseball is 90% mental, the other half is physical" - Yogi Berra

by the pinstripes on Oct 8, 2006 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

good for the game

As a fan of prospects, it would be good for the game. I don't think owners should prove to fans that they want to win by lavishing millions on Russ Ortiz, Jaret Wright, Jeromy Burnitz and the other scores of replacement level multi-millionaires.

by bolton on Oct 8, 2006 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There must be a middle ground

Between overage, underskilled, expensive "proven veterans" and a team full of might-bes...

As a Detroiter, this feels a lot like the very talented, but unheralded Pistons beating the Lakers -- like the Lakers, the Yankees have a lot of great players, but are missing some depth and the defensive aspects of the game.

by BIgMax on Oct 9, 2006 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

I wouldn't fire Torre.

"Baseball is 90% mental, the other half is physical" - Yogi Berra

by the pinstripes on Oct 8, 2006 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A-Rod to Anaheim

They should trade ARod to Anaheim if they want to. Possible targets will be Santana or Lackey, but no way they throw Brandon Wood with him, but the condition is that Anaheim takes all the contract.
Then, trade Pavano to Philly for Burrell, and move him to 1st base. Don't resign Sheffield.
Try to trade Melky to Chicago for Joe crede or Josh Fields.

by LCT on Oct 8, 2006 11:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

money

With the money you save for trading A-Rod and releasing Shef, try to sign the best pitcher available. Of course, I am a METS fan, so I hope they can't sign any free agent.

by LCT on Oct 8, 2006 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Love it.

Pavano and Melky have little trade value. No way Chicago is trading either of their really good young third baseman for a marginal starting corner OF. And Pavano? You gotta be kidding me.

by abbreviatedman on Oct 8, 2006 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

both Burrell and Pavano have NTC

But the Phillies have been trying to move Pat the Bat for a while now and Pavano costs less over the same amount of time.

It's an interesting idea.

by grover on Oct 8, 2006 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Melky

Melky Cabrera has a ton of trade value. He's proven himself a quality major leaguer at 21 years old, with a great glove in LF and a cannon for an arm. He also posted a positive BB/K, and drew a very share of walks. I could see him developing into a poor man's Bernie/Abreu in his prime, and that's a very valuable commodity. ;)

by GuyinNY on Oct 8, 2006 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Melky

NY Fans need to figure out that Melky may have a future if he develops, but right now he's a below-average LF. If he could play CF, that would be different. Right now, he's below average for a corner OF.

Of course, while he's below average right now, he's definitely got good indicators for development (BB/K, age). He'll never hit like Bernie (and play CF like Bernie) nor Abreu (though he'll play better D), but he doesn't have to if he continues to develop. He could someday be an average corner OF.

Anyway, the point is that other teams aren't going to give up very good prospects for a guy who's got a chance to be a regular but no more.

by abbreviatedman on Oct 8, 2006 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fields/Melky?

Wow, I would consider a Fields for Melky trade an absolute fleecing in favor of the White Sox. A guy who hits .303 supported by a .398 BABIP is already screaming "fluke" to me, and when his strikeout rate approaches 30%, I see almost no chance for him to keep that up. One site's opinion of his MLE is .273/.337/.434, and that still includes a .360 BABIP. And I know Fields isn't "old", but it's not like he was doing this at age 21, either.

by BobbyMac on Oct 8, 2006 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs