Crystal Ball: Felix Hernandez


Crystal Ball: Felix Hernandez
Doing a crystal ball for this guy is fraught with danger. Basically anything I write here will be torn apart by someone. If the crystal ball sees brilliance ahead, people will say "there is no such thing as a pitching prospect." If the crystal ball predicts mediocrity, Mariners fans and fantasy owners will scream bloody murder. Shooting for the midpoint is my natural inclination here, but in a case like Hernandez, that's chickensXXt.
Anyhow, I said I'd do it, so here goes. Fundamental assumptions for this crystal ball:
A) Felix Hernandez is as good as everyone thinks, something like a cross between Dwight Gooden and Mark Prior.
B) Felix Hernandez will be handled carefully by the Mariners. They won't ask him to throw 250 innings right away.
C) There's still a good chance he will get hurt.
D) He eventually becomes too expensive for a "small revenue" team to hold on to.
I designed this to represent an outstanding pitcher with a couple of interruptions due to injury and a gradually declining ability to dominate a game.
As before, this is a starting point for discussion. Is this a realistic expectation for Felix? Are we expecting too much? Is he going to last this long, or will he be a burnout like, say, Jose Rijo?
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30 comments
Comments
King Felix
Generally, I think he'll be better sooner than that projection, barring early injury (I think he's capable of 3.00 ERAs right away), but I think that is a pretty fair guess.
by danielj on Sep 13, 2005 7:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Heh
I think he'll get hurt, but it won't be something career threatening (ie TJ surgery). I think he'll be just as good as you project, but far more dominant (more K's).
Also John, do you think that you can add HR's given up for the pitchers? It'd be really useful.
by SenorGato88 on Sep 13, 2005 7:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
c'mon
LOL!
I think it's a very fair career path. I think the K's are maybe a tad low given he'll start throwing a slider in the next couple of years.
I don't think he'll pitch until age 40. I would see the end around age 36-37 season. That would put him at 240 wins. If he ends up with some real quality teams in his career, that's a real possibility.
Good job John!
by So Cal Bob on Sep 13, 2005 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LK
by John Sickels on Sep 13, 2005 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
splitting hairs
277 wins and 3000 K's will be HOF worthy.
by So Cal Bob on Sep 13, 2005 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the hair
nor is: 288 wins and 2,245 K's 3.34 ERA
...apparently... so not necessarily.
I agree that this ball view is about as good as any pitcher beginning his career could legitimately hope to achieve. good job John.
by roaddog on Sep 13, 2005 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HOF
I think Felix will come closer to striking out 4000, win about 275 w/ an ERA just under 3. His 5 or 6 Cy Young seasons will ensure gets the call.
by slurve on Sep 14, 2005 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's not serious...
It's a sarcastic remark about how Bert Blyleven and Tommy John aren't yet in the HoF.
by Wezlar on Sep 17, 2005 5:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Felix
by RiverCats05 on Sep 13, 2005 7:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You had me...
by slurve on Sep 13, 2005 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question for all that love King Felix
Do you think he could break the trend and succeed at Coors? Do you feel he's good enough? Or is success as a pitcher at coors just an impossible task?
by cincyinco on Sep 13, 2005 8:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is very similar to Bert Blyleven's career.
Felix Hernandez debuted for the Seattle Mariners in the fall of 2005, and never looked back. His first two full seasons were good, but not great. In 2008, it appeared that Felix was on his way to his first Cy Young award. He started the All-Star game that season, and was 12-4 heading into August. As is common these days for pitchers, an arm injury and Tommy John surgery occured. The Mariners were cautious in Hernandez's return, waiting until mid-August of 2009 to allow him to return.
Hernandez seemed to come back stronger than ever in 2010, posting career highs in wins, K's, and innings. 2011 was the breakout year for Felix. He won his first Cy Young award, leading the AL in wins, innings, strikeouts, complete games, shutouts, and ERA. That season also marked the end of his run with the Mariners.
The New York Mets, in need of a star pitcher since Pedro Martinez retired, signed Hernandez to a 4 year $80 million deal. The 2012 season is a strong year for Hernandez, setting career highs for innings pitched and strikeouts. The following season, Felix wins his second Cy Young award, his first in the NL. He finishes first in win %, first in ERA, second in wins, and second in strikeouts.
In 2013, Hernandez leads the Mets to an NL East title, picking up his third Cy Young along the way. Felix finishes the regular season first in wins, win %, and ERA, while finishing third in innings and strikeouts. Hernandez leads the Mets to a World Series win, picking up the NLCS and World Series MVP awards. For the postseason, Hernandez goes 6-0, with a 1.17 ERA, and 50K's in 54 innings.
In the offseason, the Mets resign Hernandez to a 3 year, $63 million deal. Unfortunately, in July Hernandez suffers a torn rotator cuff and missed over a year, not returning until late in September 2016. While 2017 was poor by his standards, Felix rebounded fairly well from the rotator cuff injury. At the deadline in 2018, with the Mets out of contention and Hernandez in his final season of his contract, he is traded to the Cubs.
He pitches the Cubs to the NLCS, but they can't overcome the defending champion Cardinals. In 2019, the Cubs resign Hernandez to a 3 year $48 million deal. A couple of small injuries keep Hernandez from breaking the 200 inning barrier in 2019, and Cub fans begin to bemoan the signing. Hernandez silences his critics by leading the Cubs to a World Series victory in 2020. His very average 2021 season leads the Cubs to not entertain thoughts of bringing him back.
The Mets, desperate to make the playoffs again after a 7 year absence, bring Hernandez back to NYC with a 3 year, $36 million deal. Hernandez has one solid year left in him, and two very mediocre ones, which disappoint the Mets and their fans. Seattle brings Felix back in 2025, with a minor league contract. He starts the year in the pen, and assume a starting spot due to an injury to another pitcher. He comes back in 2026, but decides to hang it up in June of that year.
by gatling on Sep 13, 2005 8:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Elite Prospect
by DrBGiantsfan on Sep 13, 2005 8:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
aging gracefully?
by amol on Sep 13, 2005 9:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mariners fan that I am..
For anyone else, I'd say this was a good prediction.. lol
by Bigfoot Hunter on Sep 13, 2005 9:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
felix hernandez
by barton1 on Sep 13, 2005 10:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
kerry wood
by taggartd on Sep 13, 2005 10:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ouch...
by huckleberry on Sep 14, 2005 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Doc
by JFP on Sep 14, 2005 12:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
2012?
One thing that jumped out at me, though - in 2012, you've got Hernandez due to throw 32 games and over 250 innings, which works out to nearly 8 innings per start. (7.9something to be a bit more precise)
Normally I'd just dismiss this as something of a fluke, kind of like Carlos Silva's unreal walk total this season. But then I noticed your comment about the Mariners not throwing him 250 innings right away.
In an era of pitch counts, five-man rotations, and set-up relievers, is 250 innings a realistic target for a starting pitcher anymore? Consider that if Hernandez has, say, three starts in 2012 where he's knocked out before the fifth inning, he'd need something like ten complete games to keep his per-start average high enough to top 250 innings. And I think ten complete games would be a pretty bold prediction for almost any pitcher.
by dwintheiser on Sep 14, 2005 12:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
250
by John Sickels on Sep 14, 2005 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mariners low revenue?
Now, it's possible that their current slides could end that, but right now it's just not true.
That doesn't mean that Felix won't leave, but it really overstates the case to say Seattle is low revenue.
by coov on Sep 14, 2005 12:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mariners 3rd highest revenues in MLB in 2004...
by gravitys on Sep 14, 2005 3:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
mariners
by John Sickels on Sep 14, 2005 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
defense
But the characterization of Seattle as "small revenue" is certainly inaccurate.
by John Sickels on Sep 14, 2005 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
between Prior and Gooden?!? + methodology question
I enjoy these crystal ball features, but I do feel like they're more smoothing exercises than anything else. Gooden and Prior were exceptional talents who produced exceptional/anomalous results very early in their careers, but Felix's predicted path doesn't look exceptional: it looks like every other pitcher's path, simply scaled up.
I guess my question is- do these numbers say anything specific about Felix Hernandez, or are they just (regular pitcher) x 1.8? For example, the fact that he seems to have poise/physical maturity so soon might lead one to expect his early #s will be closer to his peak than average (closer than, say, pipe-cleaner armed Zack Greinke).
I think if I were going to do a crystal ball here, I'd give two outcomes: maybe one with frequent injuries, a few dominant seasons but lots of starts/stops; and another that's primarily healthy, Doc Gooden realized, with once-in-a-generation totals.
With respect, the above numbers look like expected mean values rather than any one particular outcome.
by Rogers Reilly on Sep 15, 2005 12:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Felix will spend his career in Safeco
Felix has stated the Ms were his favorite team as a kid growing up - and sure that can change - but there's no reason to believe it's going to change as he's already said "no" to the Mets and others who came-a-courtin' (some with more $$$ than Seattle offered).
Anyway, is it too much to ask to prognosticate his career assuming he plays his entire career in pitcher-friendly Safeco for the very, very "high revenue" Ms?
by collisonrules on Sep 15, 2005 4:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
replying to your previous comment
by Opheliakesal on Dec 20, 2006 1:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs














