Loretta to Boston for Doug Mirabelli

Why would San Diego make this deal?

Is it a salary thing? Loretta for Mirabelli seems ridiculously unfair.

by goheels on Dec 7, 2005 3:21 PM EST reply actions

I read...

that it was to free up money to sign hoffman. I don't know who will replace Loretta at second.

by beastball on Dec 7, 2005 3:34 PM EST up reply actions

How much did Loretta make?

2.5 million? Was his salary supposed to escalate in 2006? I don't get it if this was a cost cutting move...

So who is going to catch Wakefield now? Shoppach?

by sasquatch83 on Dec 7, 2005 3:39 PM EST up reply actions

$3.5 million plus bonuses...

I mean I don't really get the trade either, but that's what I read.

I think Loretta is in the last year of his contract also, so maybe they want to move him before he bolts and sign Hoffman?

by beastball on Dec 7, 2005 3:46 PM EST up reply actions

Barfield?

by jc3 on Dec 7, 2005 3:55 PM EST up reply actions

even if he is ready

Is Mirabelli all you can get for Loretta?

by goheels on Dec 7, 2005 4:02 PM EST up reply actions

Surprised they didn't ask for Shoppach.

by silvysilv on Dec 7, 2005 4:13 PM EST up reply actions

2b

barfield

by SoCalSoxFan on Dec 7, 2005 7:44 PM EST up reply actions

trade will allow for josh barfield to be san diego`s everyday second baseman. is he ready yet? i think san diego would be better off keeping loretta and allowing linebrink to close and just let hoffman walk.

by thisisthezodiacspeaking (61590) on Dec 7, 2005 3:38 PM EST reply actions

not mutually exclusive

I think this is not a bad trade for San Diego--I think Barfield's ready to play 2B every day in the majors, and linebrink or otsuka could both be decent closers, and whoever doesn't close could set-up, so I don't see the big need to spend a lot of money on Hoffman. Mirabelli could keep the seat warm for Kottaras, who's still at least a year away, and this frees up salary to address SD's other needs, which are plentiful.

by martytomlinson on Dec 7, 2005 3:52 PM EST up reply actions

Question

Is Loretta's arm too weak for third? Because if I were the Padres and I wanted Barfield in the Show, I would have shifted Loretta there before trading for a backup catcher - a solid backup catcher, but a backup nonetheless.

by sasquatch83 on Dec 7, 2005 4:01 PM EST reply actions

although

he came up as a shortstop i doubt he has the arm for third anymore

by SoCalSoxFan on Dec 7, 2005 7:45 PM EST up reply actions

concerning

This deal worries me a lot from the standpoint of Mirabelli as Wakefield's personal catcher. I think Tek is a great ctcher, but he (and many other catchers) has a LOT of trouble catching Wakefield. perhaps they'll have shoppach come up as his personal catcher, if so, good luck to him.
Doug has been one of the best backup catchers in baseball, he deserved a shot at starting and this move with the possible Renteria for Marte deal would probably shift Pedroia back to SS.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Dec 7, 2005 4:05 PM EST reply actions

i was wondering about this too

when i mentioned this trade to my wife (big sawx fan), her first comment was, "wow, who's going to catch wake?"

maybe this trade will pave the way for both josh barfield and kelly shoppach, kinda like the thome/rowand deal opened things up for both ryan howard and brian anderson.

by jpahk on Dec 7, 2005 4:28 PM EST up reply actions

wake

First of all, pls scroll down after reading this. I said something very nice about The Sox. Now, to hell with Wake. Keeping Mirabelli to catch Wake when you can make a deal like this is akin to saying I'd love to have that Mercedes but I sure hate to give up the Pinto. Tim Wakefield is a league average pitcher at best. That's even stretching it. You're not talking about Greg Maddux here. I hope the Sox brass feels like you then maybe Cashman can get him for Kelly Stinnett.

by the pinstripes on Dec 7, 2005 6:43 PM EST up reply actions

Oh man...

I'm about to agree with a Yankee fan... But I do agree. If I'm the Sox, I make this trade in a heartbeat. As much as I like Mirabelli, it's foolish to hold on to him as a personal catcher for Wakefield (though I will argue that Wake is generally better than league average - not spectacularly so, but certainly above). That's a role I think Shoppach could handle very well. The primary reason for Wakefield having a personal catcher is to give Varitek a day out from behind the plate. He COULD catch Wakefield, but this allows him to rest, as well as allows another catcher to practice catching the knuckleball more often, thus becoming better with it.

(It should be noted that one of the reasons Tek had difficulty catching Wakefield is that he refuses to use the oversized glove that Mirabelli would use. That certainly doesn't make matters easier for him)

by RVachon on Dec 7, 2005 7:42 PM EST up reply actions

one thing!

You can't give Mirabelli props for spelling Tek or whatever you guys call him. Any back-up catcher would perform that task. Want Kelly Stinnett?

by the pinstripes on Dec 7, 2005 9:52 PM EST up reply actions

Not what I said...

I wasn't giving him props for spelling Varitek. In fact, my comment really had nothing to do with Mirabelli. I was stating that one of the reasons Tek has had problems catching Wakefield is the way the Sox choose to give him days off. i.e. If he doesn't catch the knuckleball with any regularity, those times he DOES will be more difficult.

by RVachon on Dec 7, 2005 10:35 PM EST up reply actions

What?

This is a great trade for Boston. Backup catcher for a starting 2nt baseman. Not to mention shoppach is waiting in the wings.

Mark will have a huge year in Boston! I'll go out on a limb and peg Mark as the starting 2nt baseman in this years allstar game.

by Josh @ Minor League Ball on Dec 7, 2005 4:14 PM EST reply actions

I agree

This is a monster trade for Boston. Mirabelli is an excellent back up to be sure but give me a break. Mark Loretta is huge for The Sox. I hate to say this but to get a deal like this done is; wow! Who needs Epstein?

by the pinstripes on Dec 7, 2005 6:34 PM EST up reply actions

WOW

Two confirmed Red Sox haters giving props to the Red Sox for a trade? LMAO, one would almost have to think that we are just plain old baseball fans.

by Josh @ Minor League Ball on Dec 7, 2005 7:17 PM EST up reply actions

absolutely

I may hate the Red Sox but I can still see. I know Mark Loretta for Doug Mirabelli w/ Loretta only making 2.5 million is fantastic. Not quite up there with the Oliver Perez and Jason Bay for Brian Giles, but up there. Josh, your all right for a Sox fan.

by the pinstripes on Dec 7, 2005 9:55 PM EST up reply actions

mirabelli = starter?

here's what i'm now wondering. is mirabelli going to be the starting catcher for the padres? it certainly doesn't look like they'll bring back ramon. miguel olivo had a nice 2 months there but was unspeakably horrible with the mariners, and has a career line of .224/.275 (yup, two seventy-five)/.389. i suspect mirabelli would be better than olivo in an everyday role.

by jpahk on Dec 7, 2005 7:28 PM EST reply actions

Lorreta to Pedroia

Are they a good comparison? They like it to me. All the scouting reports I have read say that Pedroia is going to be very good hitter and an above average defender at 2nd or Short

when your ERA has letters and not numbers, it's a bad thing- kevin goldstein

by WakeboardJock @ Minor League Ball on Dec 7, 2005 7:32 PM EST reply actions

i don`t get it!

boston`s getting a second baseman who`s better in his 30`s than he was in his 20`s and only giving up someones personal catcher. wakefield`s never even had a defined role. to compare a 2nd baseman of this caliber to a very replaceable personal catcher for a very versatile, but league average pitcher is absurd. wakefields strength is his versatility not his overall effectiveness. i agree with that dunce-cap wearing pinstripe on this one. but then again, this is par for the course when it comes to new england sports fans. they never see the big picture. they have a thing for these feel good stories that have little to do with on field results. tell me i`m wrong!

by thisisthezodiacspeaking (61590) on Dec 7, 2005 7:51 PM EST reply actions

bravo!

Why bravo my good man. You've finally got one right. I'll even give you Wakefield is league average. My little fat, bald friend.

by the pinstripes on Dec 7, 2005 9:59 PM EST up reply actions

Wells and Otsuka...

...are also rumored in this deal. It would stand as:

Wells and Mirabelli for Loretta and Otsuka.

Makes a little more sense this way

by dbimberg on Dec 7, 2005 8:26 PM EST reply actions

Trade announced

Trade reported now

http://tinyurl.com/7w5nz

by limozeen on Dec 7, 2005 8:30 PM EST reply actions

i guess...

my rumor was wrong, and quickly. good move for Boston.

by dbimberg on Dec 7, 2005 8:42 PM EST up reply actions

This deal does not make sense...

Mirabelli is a backup catcher at best, and Loretta was an All Star I think JUST two years ago. I dont understand what the Padres were doing at all. I mean when I first saw this I was pissed that the Giants couldnt capitalize on this deal. I mean I know the Padres wouldnt have dealt Loretta probably to an inter division rival, but to me, this is the same as if the Giants traded Yorbit Torrealaba to the Padres for Mark Loretta.

I guess as a Giants fan, Im happy. Last year, in 50 games and batting .228. He is a career .241 hitter with 47 homers and 165 RBIs in 445 career games for Boston, Texas and San Francisco.

Now on the other hand, Loretta had his best season in 2004, when he batted .335 with 47 doubles, 16 homers, 76 RBI and 108 runs scored - all career bests, and good enough to earn him a spot on the NL All-Star team!!

WOW!!! Rip off. And even if the Padres think Barfield was ready, they could have gotten more.

Sabean, stop giving away our 1st round draft picks!!

by z4 landshark on Dec 7, 2005 11:33 PM EST up reply actions

Mirabelli can be a starter

He is at least an adequate defensive catcher. He has a career OPS of 753, which would have tied for 13th among all catchers last year (300+ PA). What about him makes you say he cannot start?

by cdamon @ Minor League Ball on Dec 8, 2005 9:16 AM EST up reply actions

Career OPS

Mirabelli's career OPS may be .753, but consider:

Career OPS vs LHP: .889
Career OPS vs RHP: .698

Last time I checked, I still prefer the guys who mash against the RHP rather than LHP. It's the more important side of the platoon.

"If you don't like Torey Lovullo, then you don't like baseball." Sparky Anderson

by natsfan2005 @ Minor League Ball on Dec 8, 2005 9:43 AM EST up reply actions

still middle of the pack against RH

The 19th best offensive catcher in MLB last year (300+ PA) has a 701 OPS. Given that most of the 28 regular catchers are RH, I bet that the 698 career OPS vs RH pitching is about middle of the road. And he crushes LHP, which has some real value.

I am not arguing that Mirabelli is an all-star. But he is as good as a middle of the road MLB starting catcher. Just because he has been a backup, mostly behind all stars, does not mean that he is not better than many starting catchers.

by cdamon @ Minor League Ball on Dec 8, 2005 10:11 AM EST up reply actions

subject

Not to mention if the guy is getting regular ab's he will be able to get in more of a groove at the plate.

by Josh @ Minor League Ball on Dec 8, 2005 4:41 PM EST up reply actions

or be exposed

"If you don't like Torey Lovullo, then you don't like baseball." Sparky Anderson

by natsfan2005 @ Minor League Ball on Dec 8, 2005 4:41 PM EST up reply actions

Good deal, but...

let's not overrate Loretta. He's a good OBP guy, but his 280/360/347 line from last year isn't exactly All-Star material. And, he's 34 going on 35, so the prospects of him improving a lot aren't that great.

Mirabelli IMO was underrated in his ability to handle Wakefield. Anyone see Varitek try to catch him in that playoff game? I guess the Red Sox think that Shoppach can handle it or they wouldn't have done it.

by jc3 on Dec 8, 2005 9:25 AM EST reply actions

subject

Mark was hurt last year. If he is over his thumb injury, his power should return.

by Josh @ Minor League Ball on Dec 8, 2005 4:52 PM EST up reply actions

good to know

I did not realize that he was battling an injury (other than the time he missed). As a Red Sox fan, I look forward to him returning closer to his 2004 numbers.

by cdamon @ Minor League Ball on Dec 8, 2005 5:21 PM EST up reply actions

Loretta

is still a 34YO 2B. I don't dislike this trade and I think Doug really deserves the shot to start somewhere (or at least prove he doesn't deserve to start). I'm just not sure about the wisdom of trading for a mid-30's 2B. Granted, when you're giving up a catcher who's even older...
As for Wakefield, calling him 'league average at best' is a typical disservice. He's no all-star but he's carried the rotation for major stretches in the past and will do so into the future.
And there's nothing 'league average' about a guy who will commit to what amounts to a lifetime contract of team options.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Dec 10, 2005 1:07 AM EST reply actions

subject

You also didn't like the signing of 38 year old 2nt basemen.(Kent) 34 isn;t that old anymore. These guys train a lot different then even there peers from the 80's. We are going to start (are)seeing players playing better deeper into there careers. The good gm's will adjust to this. The bad gm's will be stuck in the past saying something like "he is a 34 year old 2nt basemen."

I also find it funny that you are arguing age when the player shipped out was older and a catcher. Which position would you want the older player playing?

by Josh @ Minor League Ball on Dec 10, 2005 11:20 PM EST reply actions