Minor League Ball: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: RSL Soapbox for Real Salt Lake Fans!

What the Heck Happened to Jose Ortiz?


What the Heck Happened to Jose Ortiz?

Remember Jose Ortiz? I do, because he was one of the guys I was wrong about.

First, some history. Jose Ortiz was signed by the Athletics as a free agent in 1994, out of the Dominican Republic. He played in the Dominican Summer League in '95, hitting .300 with a .498 SLG and 14 steals. Promoted to the Arizona Rookie League in '96, he hit .330 with a .530 SLG and 16 steals, and was starting to get noticed as a prospect.

Ortiz moved up to Class A Modesto in the California League in 1997, hitting .245/.332/.421 with 16 homers and 22 steals. 20 years old, he acquitted himself well given his age. I liked his walk rate (60 free passes) and, influenced perhaps more than I should have been by gaudy scouting reports, I gave him a Grade B+ in the 1998 book. At this stage, age-relative-to-league was his best attribute, but his power/speed combo was intriguing.

Promoted to Double-A Huntsville in 1998, he was limited to 94 games by a broken finger. He hit .277/.369/.407 with 22 steals, showing good plate discipline. His strikeout rate dropped, his walk rate increased. He moved to second base and was being mentioned as the eventual double play partner for Miguel Tejada. I dropped his grade to a straight B in the '99 book, but this was more because I felt that the B+ in '98 was too high, rather than anything to do with his performance. He was just 21, and still looked on track.

At Triple-A Vancouver in 1999, Ortiz stalled out. He hit .284, but with just nine homers. His OBP dropped to .335, and his walk rate fell off substantially. I gave him a Grade C for the '00 book, which looks too low. . .nowadays that would have been a C+ or maybe even a B- considering his past track record. He wasn't great in '99, but he wasn't THAT bad, and was still just 22.

Ortiz rebounded sharply in '00, hitting .351/.408/.575, with 34 doubles, 24 homers, 108 RBI, 47 walks, and 64 strikeouts in 518 at-bats for Triple-A Sacramento. I saw him play in person, and he was MUCH more impressive than in '99 or even '98, doing a better job of working the count and making hard contact. He handled breaking balls well, and looked both statistically and visually like the real thing. I gave him a Grade A- and rated him the number 12 prospect in the game.

Ortiz began '01 down with a strained calf muscle. This eventually cleared up, but Oakland gave Ortiz just 11 games of playing time, before shipping him off to the Colorado Rockies as part of the Jermaine Dye/Neifi Perez three-way trade with Kansas City. The Rockies saw Ortiz as their Second Baseman of the Now and gave him regular playing time the rest of the year. He hit just .255, albeit with 13 homers and a .495 SLG. His numbers were inflated by Coors in the power department (nine homers at home, four on the road), but otherwise he actually hit slightly better on the road. His strike zone judgment was worse than anticipated, and he showed a particular weakness for pitches on the outer half of the plate. I saw him hammer those to the opposite field in '00, but he got into a bad habit of trying to pull them against major league pitching. Still, this is a normal adjustment problem, and I thought he had a good chance to figure things out.

2002 began with Ortiz as the regular second baseman in Colorado. He struggled, badly. Part of the problem was injuries: he was bothered by a bad hamstring much of the summer, then tore the meniscus in this left knee. But even when healthy, he was a major disappointment, being too pull-conscious, having problems with the strike zone, and playing erratic defense. He hit just .250/.315/.312 for the Rockies, and was sold to the Orix Blue Wave in Japan that winter.

From top prospect to Japanese League refugee in a year. How did this happen?

In retrospect, Ortiz's outstanding 2000 season in Triple-A looks like a fluke; he never hit as well before or since. I saw him that season and he looked really good, controlling the zone well and driving the ball to all fields. But he was unable to bring these skills to the major leagues, as he got into the habit of trying to pull everything. Injuries were another factor: he was injured for much of 2002 and could never get into a consistent rhythm. The Rockies sure gave up on him easily.

If you discount what he did in 2000, and just look at his career otherwise, he looks like a guy who'd hit .240-.260 with a touch of power and some speed. Given a normal growth curve from the age of 21, he could have/should have developed into a better player than that, but his growth curve wasn't normal.

In 449 major league at-bats, Ortiz hit .243/.305/.379, with 14 homers. This is very similar to what his MLEs showed 1997 through 1999. The outlier season was the 2000 fluke. My mistake here was believing that his '00 performance spike was legitimate progress. I believed this in part due to personal observation. His approach was different in '00 compared to '01 or '02. It's too bad he didn't maintain it.

So basically, Ortiz didn't develop much as a player from the age of 21 on. He had some badly-timed injuries that didn't help, and perhaps the Rockies gave up on him a bit too quickly. Nevertheless, this is a case study of how what looks like improvement is sometimes just a head-fake.

0 recs  |  Comment 25 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

age
There's also the possibility that he was an Age-Gate guy who didn't get caught. At least I can't find any evidence that his birthday changed.

by John Sickels on Oct 16, 2005 4:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I believe
he was an age-gate guy, but it was only by months as opposed to years...

I also seem to recall that he put up some Roberto Petagine type seasons while over in Japan.  I wondered what would have happened had he been given more of a shot with Colorado....

If my recollection is in error, I apologize in advance

by SLK on Oct 16, 2005 4:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He's Been OK In Japan
  1. .255/.311/.536, 33 HR, 86 RBI
  2. .289/.352/.499, 24 HR, 71 RBI
His defense was so bad at second base that Orix moved him to first for '04, however.

http://www.japanesebaseball.com/players/player.jsp?PlayerID=1630

Go ahead and shoot your mouth off, like it might kill the silence.

by ESiegrist on Oct 16, 2005 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Japan
Japan numbers:
2003   .255/.311/.536, with 33 homers.
2004   .289/.350/.499, with 24 homers.

Good power, erratic OBP.

by John Sickels on Oct 16, 2005 4:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Also to note in Japan
In 2003 he was a 2nd basemen and in 2004 he moved to 1st base.  He is only 28 which is awful young for him to already be relgated to 1st base.

by LizardKing51 on Oct 16, 2005 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

your resources beat me again!
http://japanesebaseball.com/players/player.jsp?PlayerID=1630&Year=2004&Part=1

found him on the web...

seems he moved to 1st base in 2004. Also interesting that if his birthday is listed correctly, he's only 28.

by SLK on Oct 16, 2005 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, but...
He doesn't seem to be on the roster of the 2005 Orix Buffaloes.  Not sure how player movement worked with the merger of the two teams, but as far as I can tell he's no longer playing ball in Japan.

by jhelfgott on Oct 16, 2005 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

orix buffaloes?
the orix team is the blue wave (ichiro!'s former team). the team nicknamed the buffaloes is the kintetsu buffaloes.

by jpahk on Oct 16, 2005 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They Merged
Go ahead and shoot your mouth off, like it might kill the silence.

by ESiegrist on Oct 16, 2005 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I give up
even with broadband, I'm too slow =)

by SLK on Oct 16, 2005 4:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

4 posts with pretty much the same info in 4 min
Our speed in finding the Japanese stats are approximately equal.

by LizardKing51 on Oct 16, 2005 4:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Shocked
I was really surprised he didn't put up better numbers for Colorado. I saw him against the M's in that brief stint he had with the A's, he was playing alongside Tejada and he lined out superhard to the outfield a few times. The thing that stuck out was the sound off his bat was really impressive. After what I read about him, and what I saw, I thought he was on his way. When he went to Japan, he was "thicker", maybe a little to much so for a Major League 2nd baseman.

by Bob Stinson Fan on Oct 16, 2005 5:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

defense
At least in Strat, a 2b or ss must have good defense or he is nearly useless no matter what he hits.  Prospect analysts tend to focus on offense.  I think the Ortiz was so god-awful in the middle infield that it didn't much matter how he hit, while guys like Rey Sanchez seem to hang on forever.

I also wonder how mnny 2b prospects go on to be anything at all.  Seems like there are more busts at 2b than most other positions.  Part of this is because they frequently get pushed aside when a ss prospect makes a move over to 2b (i.e. Soriano, Sandberg, Pedroia, etc).  A minor league secondbaseman frequently cannot hit enough to play 3b or 1b but is not good enough defensively to play ss making him a less than ideal prospect.

by LindInMoskva on Oct 16, 2005 5:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

glove
IIRC, his defensive rep was pretty good in the minors. At least if you go back and look at what was written at the time.

I think he did gain weight in '02, possibly related to the injuries, and that hurt his glovework.

by John Sickels on Oct 16, 2005 6:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Pitching
He tossed 22.1 innings for the Cubs' single-A affiliate this year. 22.1 brilliant innings of 1.84 whip baseball. Just marvelous.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/O/jose-ortiz.shtml

I bet he has a better career than Kerry Wood, though.

Sorry about that.

by Klostrophobic on Oct 16, 2005 8:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

ortiz
I don't think it is the same Jose Ortiz. The pitcher has a 1983 birthday. Baseball Cube is wrong with that one.

by John Sickels on Oct 16, 2005 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe you're right.
It says he's played 128 games in Japan in 2004, and then he came over to the Cubs to pitch 38.2 innings the same year.

Then went back to Japan in 2005 and then came back to the Cubs to pitch another 22.1 innings.

Why have you forsaken me, Baseball Cube!?

by Klostrophobic on Oct 16, 2005 11:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

taking the mound
I lived in Sacramento in 00' and went to half a dozen games or so. Ortiz was unstoppable that year and unfortunately it did turn out to be a fluke. If I remember I think he was a pretty unanimous PCL MVP choice.

Side note, I'm pretty sure I would pay good money to see Rafael Furcal take the mound.
Any other position players anyone would rather see pitch?

by jrose643 on Oct 17, 2005 12:27 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Juan Uribe
Juan Uribe and Johnny Damon.

Follow some mid-90s heat with a 70 MPH floater.

Seriously, how fast do you think Damon can throw? I say 80 tops.

by Klostrophobic on Oct 17, 2005 12:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yes
Furcal v. Ortiz would def be something to see. Both throw some nasty risers to 1st.

On a side note, position player I'd least like to see pitch is David Eckstein. Haha. But he is one of my fav players tho.

by jrose643 on Oct 17, 2005 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

woops
Uribe, not Ortiz. too early in the morn

by jrose643 on Oct 17, 2005 7:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why Not?
Eckstein's crazy wind-up would confuse the batters...
Go ahead and shoot your mouth off, like it might kill the silence.

by ESiegrist on Oct 17, 2005 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Japanese Numbers
His numbers in Japan are pretty good for a middle infielder and he's still pretty young. What do you think the chances are of him getting picked up by a major league team and given a chance to play. There are a few teams that really have nothing to lose by taking a chance on this guy.

Thanks

Keenlow

by Keenlow on Oct 17, 2005 12:47 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...
Do you think that guys can figure stuff out in Japan that they might not figure out in the states because they aren't given a proper chance?  It seems like the Rockies gave up on Ortiz pretty quickly.

by MontrealMets on Oct 17, 2005 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ortiz and Beltre
Ortiz minor league career sounds like Adrian Beltre's major league career.

Not great with promise, mixed in with one season of greatness.

Unfortunately for Ortiz, he never got the mega-contract...

by jalopy37 on Oct 17, 2005 11:09 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Minor League Ball: Where the Future of Baseball is Discussed
Start posting on Minor League Ball »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.


Managers

Carew_small John Sickels


Site Meter