Bullet Point
Today's Bullet Points
*I'm wondering if the Dodgers are being too aggressive with Clayton Kershaw? I think I would have left him in the Midwest League for the whole season. I don't see the point in rushing him, and prefer the one-step-at-a-time approach, unless someone has a 1.00 ERA or something.
*I think the US economy will be recognized as being in a recession within three months.
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2 disagreements
*recently read a survey of economists: 1 out of the entire sample (I want to say it was 100 economists, but can't remember) thought we'd be in a recession next year. 0 thought we'd be in a recession in 2 years. I know it's fashionable to say the sky is falling on no evidence whatsoever, but there's no reason to think we're in a recession or soon will be except for willful 'the glass is empty' thinking. Sorry.
many times
The second and third times, when teams have seen them, the pitchers need to adjust.
If you have a pitcher only go through leagues once or twice, certain deficiencies may not be exposed because teams haven't seen them.
Maybe they have a funky delivery that teams will be able to time in later starts. Maybe they are getting by on a great fastball, but have few other offerings.
I think it makes sense to have pitchers spend much of one season in the same league so they can face the same teams numerous times and see how they, and the other teams, adjust.
by Curtis Pride on Aug 15, 2007 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Laugh
by BlueEyesAustin on Aug 15, 2007 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
On Recession
Ergo, every time we were headed into a recession, 99 out of 100 economists said we weren't.
Ergo, ignore them on this particular subject.
by FunWithHeadlines on Aug 15, 2007 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Response
I do think promotion to the Florida State League would've been fine. It's a slight step up and probably wasn't going to be much more of a challenge for Kershaw than the Midwest League, but at least it would've been a more gradual exposure to more advanced batters.
+2
- Kershaw probably was not ready for such a big leap. I would have much less of an issue with a promotion to A+ ball. AA is a bit of a stretch for someone that still has some large problems with his BB rate.
- This downturn in our economy has been coming for quite a while. The Fed has focused its efforts on inflation, and the housing slowdown has had a much larger affect on the overall economy than most first thought.
well if that tropical storm tracks
Economy
Using a looser definition for recession, I do think we'll get there, though Bush will surely deny it til he's out of office. But I think it will be early next year before we really hit the bottom.
Just happened to read a couple of articles on the sub-prime mess, and it just looks bad.
Today, yet another wave of nitwit lending has put the entire financial system at risk, and the subprime mortgage mess is only part of the problem. The rising wave of adjustable mortgage rate resets is a larger problem.
As John Mauldin points out in a recent newsletter, resets scheduled for next February and March alone will be more than all the resets in the first six months of this year, $197 billion. Resets in the first six months of next year, $521 billion, will be greater than all of 2007.
Talk about moments of truth. That's when many owners will become renters and many lenders will become harried owner/sellers. Then, not now, is when the housing market should start to bottom. It's also when consumers will be tightest with their spending, so we're likely to see a weaker economy than we see today.
from: http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/WhyYouCantTrustYourLender.aspx
and
Thornberg is among the economists who believes the mortgage market turmoil could lead to a recession during the next year. "This snowball is just 20 percent down the hill. It's nowhere near the bottom," he said.
from: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20216643/page/3/
huh?
If you want to go by the definition that "bad" things are happening, sure, baby, we're always in recession, California will fall into the sea, the sky is falling, the end is coming, etc.
And while I agree that, in general, if 100 economists say 1 thing, the opposite is likely to happen, it's also true that psychologists have found that people will always describe their economic situation as okay, but the outside economic situation as dismal. Something in the human condition, I guess -- god knows this thread is an example. I think I'll go with the actual economic data and the expertise of actual experts in the field rather than populist hysteria.
huh yourself
"A recession is a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in real GDP, real income, employment, industrial production, and wholesale-retail sales. A recession begins just after the economy reaches a peak of activity and ends as the economy reaches its trough. Between trough and peak, the economy is in an expansion. Expansion is the normal state of the economy; most recessions are brief and they have been rare in recent decades."
So if you go strictly by 2 quarters of declining GDP, you'd need to be in a recession for 6+ months, probably longer just to fit over two quarters. Practically speaking, there are short recessions that are real and "felt" that are completely ignored by using the GDP method.
So, first to your assertion that "all" use 2 consecutive quarters of declining GDP as the definition, well, it's just not true. The folks at NBER don't, but what do they know. Maybe they're not "actual experts" and are part of the "populist hysteria".
Second, your comparison to OBP is quite good. Is OBP the end-all-be-all stat to define how good or bad a ballplayer is? I don't think you'd find anyone that would say it is, or at least anyone with basic knowledge of baseball. So why use GDP as the one and only barometer of the economy? It seems a very narrow view to me, and, frankly, ignorant (all due respect).
standard definition
Definition
A period of general economic decline; specifically, a decline in GDP for two or more consecutive quarters."
That's the standard definition, the only variation I know of is if the NBER takes it upon itself to say that a shorter decline is so drastic that even in a shorter period of time it constitutes a recession.
So the real question would be: does anyone here think we're heading into a period of negative GDP growth? No? I wouldn't think so. Ergo....
As for alternate definitions of what is a barometer of a good or bad economy, I agree. But the assertion by John wasn't that, it was specifically that we are about to have a recession -- and immediately there was a clamor of agreement (everyone loves bad news). That assertion is demonstrably false within the next 3 months, and far-fetched for anytime in the near future.
your point being?
And do you know why I don't care? Because whenever I talk with colleagues or friends or family they are having the same meaning as me. We are ok with this.
So to 99% of the population they are thinking it's a recession. To the semantics & grammar police we are just hysteric fools that don't realize it's impossible to have a recession in the next quarter.
I think both of us will survive with our different meanings.
ps: I'm guessing you have a different meaning of "ignorant" and were not actually insulting someone but were in fact saying something nice. At least that is how I'll interpret it. :)
my point?
your point seems to be, by analogy, that if you say 2+2=5, and your friends nod their heads then, in fact, 2+2=5. I'll stick with semantics (and those horrible 'semantics police') in thinking that words have actual meaning.
How's the view from your high horse?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/recession
OK, here's about 20 different definitions for recession, all actual meanings. So if pedrophile is talking to his friends about "A general business slump, less severe than a depression", then their discussion must be rubbish. Because naturally your definition of "The technical indicator of a recession is two consecutive quarters of negative economic growth as measured by a country's GDP" is the only one of the twenty that matters, right?
Fact of the matter is, pedro is right, most people could give a crap about technical indicators. They see what affects them day to day, and that's what they worry about. While we might not be in a recession now, if you really think there aren't any indications of an economic slowdown, you should open your eyes a bit wider.
thanks
<<your point seems to be, by analogy, that if you say 2+2=5, and your friends nod their heads then, in fact, 2+2=5. I'll stick with semantics (and those horrible 'semantics police') in thinking that words have actual meaning.>>
It seems scooter doesn't understand how meanings of words are created. Consensus on a word does in fact create a new meaning/value for that word. That is a fact.
question for you
FURTHER:
here are two definitions. The first has an origin of 1640. The second is from Princeton and is very recent. Based on your take on "actual" versus "consensus" then the first one is correct and the second is not. Making all your statements on recession seem foolish and uninformed. But if you subscribe to the second then you are allowing that many people can have contrarian meanings on the same word and each can be correct. That makes your rude comments make you look uninformed and rude.
So which is it?
re·ces·sion1 rɪˈsɛʃən Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-sesh-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
-noun
1. the act of receding or withdrawing.
2. a receding part of a wall, building, etc.
3. a withdrawing procession, as at the end of a religious service.
4. Economics. a period of an economic contraction, sometimes limited in scope or duration. Compare depression (def. 7).
[Origin: 1640-50; < L recessiōn- (s. of recessiō). See recess, -ion]
recession
noun
- the state of the economy declines; a widespread decline in the GDP and employment and trade lasting from six months to a year
- a small concavity [syn: recess]
- the withdrawal of the clergy and choir from the chancel to the vestry at the end of a church service
- the act of ceding back
- the act of becoming more distant [syn: receding]
kershaw
pitching coach
Economy vs. Kershaw
Bunches of companies are doing nothing but talking about how bad this subprime stuff is -- even companies that have little to nothing to do with the housing market.
Other companies are talking about how commodity prices have skyrocketed (anybody notice the price of cheese or milk or soda at the grocery store lately?)
And the biggest point is many companies believe people are spending less as a whole because they think the economy is going into the toilet (thus creating a self-fufilling prophecy.) Notice Wall-Mart results yesterday??
Like, I said, I'm no expert, but everything I'm hearing from these CEOs and CFOs of U.S. companies is not good.
As for Kerhshaw -- I remain bullish!
economy
Consumer spending
by FunWithHeadlines on Aug 15, 2007 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Spending
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/14/business/14econ.html
Here are two seperate articles, the first talks about Wal-Mart and Home Depot reporting sales slumps, but that some of the problem could be there fault. The second is a report from the Commerce Department about a rise in consumer spending for July.
Economy
by Buddy on Aug 15, 2007 7:16 PM EDT reply actions
recession call
I think the economy will -- just barely -- muddle through, but I expect a lot of punk GDP numbers for the next few quarters, though no negative ones.
We'll see.
recession already
Kershaw
by Tcs5384 on Aug 17, 2007 4:35 AM EDT reply actions

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