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Andrew Miller vs. Yovanny Gallardo

This should be a dillemma a lot of us will be having in upcoming drafts.  We've already discussed Lincecum ad nauseum, and Hughes and Bailey are not available in most returning leagues, so Miller vs. Gallardo looks to be a common "problem."

My interests are:

What do they each throw?

Who's got the higher "ceiling?"

Who's the safer bet to reach his ceiling?

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Is that Gallardo seems consistently projected as a #2...by inference, that seems to imply people don't think he can be a true Schilling/Schmidt/Sheets/Felix/Harden type of pitcher.

Is there reason to believe Miller's ceiling is any higher?

by siddfynch on Jan 31, 2007 10:17 PM EST reply actions  

Andrew has the higher ceiling

 i think Most would agree that Miller has the "higher" ceiling. not many 6'6 left handed flame throwers that have a slider like he does in the bigs.

 however Gallardo has "proven" more in pro ball thus far and has incredible potential himself.

 if i were to take one of the 2 right now it would be Gallardo. however Miller could be the next dominate southpaw in the bigs. his upside Bonderman AND Verlander's in Detroit if fully developed.

by High Heater on Jan 31, 2007 10:42 PM EST reply actions  

Gotta Go
with Andrew Miller on this one. I mean when you got a guy like Miller who's 6"6, left handed and throws the ball in the Mid to High 90's and a good slider, I mean that's pretty sick. I mean Gallardo can be an above average starter but Miller if he reaches his full potential can be a cy young type pitcher in the future.

by NYYLover1000 on Feb 1, 2007 12:34 AM EST reply actions  

Miller
1 - Mid 90's fb and insane slider.  
2 - Both high , but I think Miller has a higher ceiling
3 - Gallardo will reach his potential sooner, but Miller is just 21, and will have time in the minors before he gets to the majors again.  I think if Gallardo doesnt start the season with Mil, then he will be up in a few months.

Other Mil pitching news, Rogers is recovering from his shoulder surgery, and will be out the entire year.  Read the article on MILB.com, pretty good.

by ChrisRef19 on Feb 1, 2007 7:30 AM EST reply actions  

age
Strange... folks are mentioning that Gallardo is "closer" to his ceiling despite the fact that he's over a year younger than Miller and nobody is making much of that.

Miller's 22 years old right now, by the way, not 21.

by FI @ Minor League Ball on Feb 1, 2007 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Pro Ball Experience
I think the reason is the fact that Miller has 5 innings of minor league ball/10.1 of MLB and Gallardo has 303.0 innings of minor league experience.

If Miller flies through A and gets to AA as a starter this season then I think people may rate them more even on that.

by VtTigers on Feb 1, 2007 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Miller
I love his high GB% and the resulting low HR/9.  Much lower than Gallardo's (though Gallardo's are good too) with about the same K/9.  It just looks to me like Miller can't miss (with the usual health caveats).  There is the NL/AL thing to factor in, but I think that Miller is more of the sure thing.  Plus he's a lefty.

by laughlin on Feb 1, 2007 9:11 AM EST reply actions  

not true
" Much lower than Gallardo's (though Gallardo's are good too) with about the same K/9."

Actually, Gallardo had the better HR rate in 2006. Also, note that Miller's splits and Akron's component park factors suggest he was helped out by his home park a bit.

by FI @ Minor League Ball on Feb 1, 2007 9:48 AM EST up reply actions  

andrew miller
Not Adam.

I've been making the same mistake since the Detroit Miller was drafted.  :)

by whichthat on Feb 1, 2007 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Keep in mind Adam Miller wasn't 100% until
July!

Hello FI,

I know this thread is about Andrew Miller, but one additional point about Adam Miller's splits - Adam wasn't back to 100% until around July in terms of his velocity because of that elbow injury and the layoff time he had in 2005 (he was only hitting up to 95 or so early in 2006, versus up to 98 in the second half.)  His command also improved a bit in the second half as well.

That's another major reason why there is the disparity between the two halves:

From April to June 2006:
89.1 IP, 84 H, 8 HR, 26 BB, 87 K, 8.47 H/9 IP, 2.62 BB/9 IP, 8.77 K/9 IP, 0.81 HR/9 IP

From July to August 2006:
64.2 IP, 45 H, 1 HR, 17 BB, 70 K, 6.27 H/9 IP, 2.37 BB/9 IP, 9.75 K/9 IP, 0.14 HR/9 IP

So, in essence, Adam Miller was a tale of two pitchers in 2006 - good in the first half of the season, dominant and great in the second half.  The question is, is the second half the real Miller, since his velocity has returned to almost pre-injury status (hitting 98, maybe 99, whereas he hit 101 in the CL Playoffs back in 2004, though he didn't regularly throw it at 101)?

Of course, he has to adjust to the AAA level as well, but has already gotten a taste of it due to one start he made there in 2006.  I think the reason Miller might be rated higher than Gallardo is because some, including BA, question whether Gallardo is a true #1 or more of a #2-#3 pitcher.  I have not heard that about Miller, especially now that he is healthy again (knock on wood that continues!  :-)  

Personally, I would rate Adam Miller higher than Gallardo, but the Top 4 in my opinion would be Hughes, Bailey or Miller (then the other; I think there's convincing arguments you could make for Bailey being #2 and there are convincing arguments you could make for Miller being #2) then Gallardo.  But essentially, the four of them are within eyelashes of each other or breathing down the necks of each other; I don't think there's considerable difference between the four at this point, outside of Bailey's weaker command and not quite as much polishment on his breaking stuff, so I suppose you could even make the argument Bailey is #4 of the four, but again, it's splitting hairs between the four of them in my opinion.  

The others like Andrew Miller, Lincecum, Hochevar, Kershaw, etc. - they've had impressive debuts, but I wouldn't put them up there with the other four yet, not until we see what these guys do over a full season; after all, the previous four have been dominating for a few years now; the last four are based more-less on projection and a much smaller sample size.  I don't think it's fair to put the last four up with or even above the previous four until they have at least one Minor League season under their belts and see how they hold up under a full season of Minor League baseball.  Then, a stronger argument could be made to put any of those 4 up with or even above the previous 4.

Just my 2 cents.  :-)

Take care and have a great day!

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Feb 1, 2007 8:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess
that I'm the only one who prefers Gallardo.  So young ... and yet so polished, but the upside is still there.  Something about Miller still makes me a bit wary of his long term ace projection that many seem to suggest.

by toonsterwu on Feb 1, 2007 10:41 AM EST reply actions  

Thanks whichthat
FI, I think whichthat is right - you must have been looking at Adam Miller's stats.  I don't think Gallardo had a HR/9 rate less than the 0 posted by Andrew.  The problem with Andrew's stats is he has such a small sample size in pro ball.  Still, his college numbers indicate he's an extreme GB ball guy, which was really my point.  Also, take a look at the Pecota projections for the two, which give a fairly wide spread in those rates for 2007.  Pecota projects Andrew Miller at 64% GB rate, whereas Gallardo is at 48%.  Miller's projected HR/9 is .3 vs. .8 for Gallardo.  Projections, I know, but that's what we're talking about, right?  In Gallardo's defense, his projected K/9 is a little higher: 7.7 vs. 6.6.

by laughlin on Feb 1, 2007 10:52 AM EST reply actions  

pecota
you can throw miller's pecota out the window. the guy has a dozen pro innings. pecota doesn't have much to go on.

of course, the scouts and his college performance back up the notion that he's an extreme GB pitcher due to his very heavy two-seamer.

by jpahk on Feb 1, 2007 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Why does Gallardo not have Cy Young potential?
Is there a wart in his speed or repertoire that people think will keep him from ever being elite?  Or is it just a "jack of all trades, master of none" type of thing?

by siddfynch on Feb 1, 2007 12:08 PM EST reply actions  

nitpicking
Seems that Gallardo might lack some of the projectability, but I'm really just quoting Kevin Goldstein.  Even he says it's "nitpicking".

Gallardo's write up by Goldstein (available w/out subscription):

http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5758

Miller's:

http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5815

Hope this all helps.  Bottom line is you probably won't go too wrong with either one.  I still like what I read about Miller's GB ratios, but that's a personal bias.  In cases like these I often ask myself who I'd rather root for.  That or ask my 7 year old son which jersey he's rather wear.  The Gallardo jersey would be a lot cooler...

by laughlin on Feb 1, 2007 1:01 PM EST reply actions  

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