Is Vinnie Catricala being underrated?
by The Congo Hammer on Jan 21, 2012 5:46 AM EST
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PrintI can't help but feel like he's not getting the attention he deserves in prospect circles. He is the same age as guys like Olt and Middlebrooks, and he has produced at Double-A with a lower K rate, plate discipline, average, and pretty good power. While he is unlikely to have the defense to play at 3B, or possibly even OF, there have been plenty of other bat-first prospects who have been excused for their poor defense, with the mantra "the bat will find a way" (Mat Gamel comes to mind). It sure didn't hurt Cuthbert's rating, although I know with him he has a greater chance of improving due to his age.
John gave him a B-, although he admitted it may be too low, and KG labelled him as a 3 star prospect, saying "he's an all-bat prospect, but it's quite a bat". KG projects Cat to reach the majors in late 2012, and I feel that at the very least he makes a great fantasy sleeper since he'll probably get ignored by most majors lists. Is there something I'm missing that is a serious red flag or reason that he shouldn't be expected to succeed in the majors?
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He could be up earlier than late 2012 assuming he plays better than not terrible
defense in Tacoma assuming he continues to hit well. The Mariners current 3B depth is Kyle Seager/Chone Figgins/Alex Liddi. Not exactly murder’s row standing in his way.
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
True, but...
But if he doesn’t have the glove to handle 3B (which I’m assuming is true) how will he get called up this year with Montero at DH and Smoak at 1B? I guess if the play Montero regularly at catcher, there could be an opening if they keep Trayvon down, or if Carp struggles. Sorry for kinda answering my own question.
The 2008 Rogelio Moret League Fantasy Baseball Champions!
by The Congo Hammer on Jan 21, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Right now, I don't think the Mariners would care how good his defense is.
I would love if they platooned him with Seager, regardless of defense. Its not like the Mariners are competing for the playoffs. The more time he gets there, hopefully the better his defense gets. We heard the same defense problems in the minor leagues with Ackley, Liddi but once we got to see them play on a daily basis, their defense looked above-average so I’m crossing my fingers that’s the same case with Vinnie. Jack Zdduresnndizcikcks said recently that he’s going to compete for a roster spot in spring training, so it’ll be interesting to see what happens
While plenty of bad glove do play 3B in the show
Catricala’s glove is pretty bad that most people don’t see him playing 3rd in the majors. The question you need to ask is how good do you think he is as a 1B/DH prospect, and the bat requirement raises significantly when we talk about 1B prospects.
Mourning Guy Carbonneau...
Royals obscure player to watch in ST: Lenny DiNardo
by playingwithfire on Jan 21, 2012 9:58 AM EST reply actions
Also
Francisco Martinez is not that far behind Cat and he can actually play 3B.
Mourning Guy Carbonneau...
Royals obscure player to watch in ST: Lenny DiNardo
by playingwithfire on Jan 21, 2012 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
I know Fielding% is a bad stat to use but...
Martinez: .917 career
Catricala: .918 career
why do people think Catricala can’t play 3B but Martinez can again?
what i don't understand
is that he hit better than Paul Goldschmidt in the same league at a younger age with a better strikeout rate
most people would have had Goldschmidt at around the Top 50 range if he qualified. BA had him there midseason, and i don’t think he’s really done anything since that ranking to make it lower. and Goldschmidt definitely can’t play outfield.
why is Catricala not even getting Top 100 consideration?
i really think this is a guy who is getting underrated.
by blue bulldog on Jan 21, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hit better than Goldschmidt?
Probably just wording, but at best it would be comparable & I’ll go with the guy with almost twice the PAs & the ‘plus plus’ natural power. I agree with your basic point that Vincent Catricala is underrated in general though.
Since when does Cuthbert have a bad glove??
I think the comp to Gamel is pretty spot-on. It looks like Gamel will finally have a shot to play every day at 1B this year. The Cat has less of a road block in his way at 1B in addition to the DH position, so I find it very likely he gets his shot much sooner than age 26.
Less of a road block?
I understand Smoak is no Prince, but let’s not be underestimating his potential. If Montero is the primary DH in Seattle, then I’m not sure where Catricala is going to get ABs in the next few years.
i'm confused
do you think Smoak is more of a roadblock in Seattle than Prince was in Milwaukee?
otherwise, what’s wrong with saying “less of a road block”?
by blue bulldog on Jan 21, 2012 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If they needed a 3B
and were willing to go with a bat first type I imagine they’d call up Liddi again.
I don’t think its out of the question at all to see Catricala in an outfield corner, though. He will be pretty bad there, but I could see the scenario you outline above for 3B happening in the outfield. Catricala isn’t really a bad body type.
I don’t think this qualifies him as an underrated prospect, however.
sorry alskor I meant to reply the below message to you
On another note, I’m calling him Vinny CatBat from now on.
The 2008 Rogelio Moret League Fantasy Baseball Champions!
by The Congo Hammer on Jan 21, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
I always think of Count Chocula because of his last name
So Vinny “Count Chocula” Catricala it is!
by cookiedabookie on Jan 21, 2012 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
The Mariners have always valued left field defense very highly in Safeco.
If Cat can be average out there somehow, great. I’m slightly skeptical he’s got a future there otherwise.
17 SB/4 CS
He’s not a burner but he should have the tools to play a decent LF if he can’t stick at 3B.
Also they've been running our Ibanez, Bradley, and Carp out there for awhile
I’m pretty sure they don’t care much about LF defense
Bradley was an average defensive outfielder when healthy.
Carp played all of 26 games there last year. The M’s under Zduriencik have shown how much they value LF defense by giving significant time to guys like Casper Wells, Michael Saunders, Ryan Langerhans, and Endy Chavez, all of whom were acquired or favored primarily for their defense.
I don’t know what the hell was happening with Peguero. The guy couldn’t hit, he couldn’t run, and he couldn’t field. I’m giving the team a mulligan on that one.
Cat's bat is significantly better than Liddi's
Liddi hit .281/.353/476 when he was in the Southern league, and Cat hit .347/.420/.632 there, actually improving on his Cal League performance. He hasn’t had a sub .300 average since hitting the pro circuit, and seems to just keep getting better…he could put up downright scary numbers in the PCL if he could do what he did in the Southern League.
True, Liddi will probably get the shot first, since he did okay in his first take. I guess I’m just saying that he could still be underrated since he’s being considered a good bat that can’t field, when he has the chance to be an excellent bat who will play well enough for a team to put him there to get him in the lineup. Or he could further improve his plate discipline and be a Billy Butler type if the glove won’t play, though it’s a bit of a longshot.
I’m only going on stats of course… if someone who has seen him has reasons that they don’t think the hitting will translate well to the MLB, it’s a different story. There just aren’t many MLB-ready bats in the minors right now who project to hit for average other than Myers.
The 2008 Rogelio Moret League Fantasy Baseball Champions!
by The Congo Hammer on Jan 21, 2012 2:28 PM EST reply actions
Definitely like Catricala's bat more than Liddi's
But at 3B there’s a gulf between the two defensively – and that’s even considering Liddi as a below average defender there.
Catricala isn’t much of an athlete and his arm doesn’t really play at 3B, either. However he is not a Jack Cust body guy. I would work him hard in the outfield and hope he improves jumps, reads, routes, etc… enough that you can live with his glove out there. I have a lot harder time seeing him improve enough that you could live with what he brings at 3B.
Talking fantasy, the bat is definitely interesting. One would hope he begins 2012 (or whatever year he comes up) with some 3B eligibility or 3B/OF/1B.
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