Draft Signings
by doublestix on Aug 14, 2011 4:41 PM EDT
Email
Printfinal updated
|
Pk |
Team |
||||
|
1 |
Pirates |
RHP |
UCLA |
$8,000,000 | |
|
2 |
Mariners |
LHP |
Virginia |
$6,350,000 | |
|
3 |
Diamondbacks |
RHP |
UCLA |
$3,400,000 |
|
|
4 |
Orioles |
RHP |
Owassa HS (OK) |
$6,225,000 | |
|
5 |
Royals |
OF |
Gardner-Edgerton HS (KS) |
$7,500,000 | |
|
6 |
Nationals |
3B |
Rice |
$6,000,000 | |
|
7 |
Diamondbacks |
RHP |
Broken Arrow HS (OK) |
$5,000,000 | |
|
8 |
Indians |
SS |
Montverde HS (FL) |
$2,900,000 | |
|
9 |
Cubs |
IF |
Arlington Country Day HS (FL) |
$2,650,000 | |
|
10 |
Padres |
MIF |
Indian River JC (FL) |
$1,863,000 |
|
|
11 |
Astros |
OF |
Connecticut |
$2,525,000 | |
|
12 |
Brewers |
RHP |
Texas |
$2,520,000 | |
|
13 |
Mets |
OF |
East HS (WY) |
$2,100,000 | |
|
14 |
Marlins |
RHP |
Alonso HS (FL) |
$2,000,000 | |
|
15 |
Brewers |
LHP |
Georgia Tech |
$2,000,000 | |
|
16 |
Dodgers |
LHP |
Stanford |
$1,589,000 |
|
|
17 |
Angels |
1B |
Utah |
$1,467,000 |
|
|
18 |
Athletics |
RHP |
Vanderbilt |
$1,540,000 |
|
|
19 |
Red Sox |
RHP |
Connecticut |
$1,500,000 | |
|
20 |
Rockies |
LHP |
Oregon |
$1,400,000 | |
|
21 |
Blue Jays |
RHP |
Lawrence Academy (MA) |
||
|
22 |
Cardinals |
2B |
Hawaii |
$1,300,000 |
|
|
23 |
Nationals |
RHP |
Kentucky |
$2,000,000 | |
|
24 |
Rays |
RHP |
Spring Valley HS (SC) |
$1,600,000 | |
|
25 |
Padres |
RHP |
Bishop O’Dowd HS (CA) |
$2,750,000 | |
|
26 |
Red Sox |
C |
Cleveland HS (NM) |
$2,500,000 | |
|
27 |
Reds |
RHP |
Alhambra HS (CA) |
$2,000,000 | |
|
28 |
Braves |
LHP |
Florida State |
$1,134,000 |
|
|
29 |
Giants |
SS |
St. John’s |
$1,160,000 |
|
|
30 |
Twins |
SS |
North Carolina |
$1,175,000 | |
|
31 |
Rays |
OF |
LSU |
$1,150,000 | |
|
32 |
Rays |
SS |
Sierra Vista HS (NV) |
$963,000 |
|
|
33 |
Rangers |
LHP |
Richmond Hill HS (GA) |
$936,000 |
|
Pk |
Team |
||||
|
34 |
Nationals |
OF |
Miami Dade JC (FL) |
$3,000,000 | |
|
35 |
Blue Jays |
OF |
Chino HS (CA) |
$990,000 |
|
|
36 |
Red Sox |
LHP |
Edison HS (CA) |
$1,150,000 | |
|
37 |
Rangers |
OF |
Georgia |
$873,000 |
|
|
38 |
Rays |
SS |
Santiago HS (CA) |
$860,000 |
|
|
39 |
Phillies |
OF |
Berrien County HS (GA) |
$1,000,000 | |
|
40 |
Red Sox |
OF |
South Carolina |
$1,100,000 | |
|
41 |
Rays |
3B |
St. Francis HS (CA) |
$1,500,000 | |
|
42 |
Rays |
RHP |
Lower Columbia JC (WA) |
$650,000 |
|
|
43 |
Diamondbacks |
LHP |
Kent State |
$875,000 | |
|
44 |
Mets |
RHP |
Deer Creek HS (OK) |
$937,500 |
|
|
45 |
Rockies |
SS |
Irving HS (TX) |
$915,000 |
|
|
46 |
Blue Jays |
RHP |
Grossmont HS (CA) |
$500,000 |
|
|
47 |
White Sox |
OF |
Central Arizona JC |
$795,000 |
|
|
48 |
Padres |
RHP |
West Boca Raton HS (FL) |
$718,000 | |
|
49 |
Giants |
RHP |
Sherman HS (TX) |
$900,000 |
|
|
50 |
Twins |
OF |
Tustin HS (CA) |
$1,050,000 | |
|
51 |
Yankees |
3B |
Orangewood Christian HS (FL) |
$750,000 |
|
|
52 |
Rays |
LHP |
Shorewood HS (WA) |
$684,000 |
|
|
53 |
Blue Jays |
OF |
McIntosh HS (GA) |
$800,000 | |
|
54 |
Padres |
C |
Providence HS (NC) |
||
|
55 |
Twins |
RHP |
Bishop Verot HS (FL) |
$1,000,000 | |
|
56 |
Rays |
OF |
Western Kentucky |
$625,000 |
|
|
57 |
Blue Jays |
RHP |
Seneca HS (NJ) |
$1,650,000 | |
|
58 |
Padres |
SS |
McNeese State |
$624,600 |
|
|
59 |
Rays |
LHP |
Vanderbilt |
$375,000 | |
|
60 |
Rays |
OF |
Oakland Technical HS (CA) |
$490,000 |
517 comments
|
9 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Proposal
I think it would be more useful to do a strikethrough, or bold them as they come in. And maybe even add the $ they signed for. That way we can not only see the names of those left, but also the names of those signed.
yeah i hope this isn't true
R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
http://twitter.com/doublestix
I would laugh hysterically
But no, they’ll get their guys.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
that'd be surprising, but
While there’s no way that the Brewers don’t bring in Bradley (being an unprotected pick), I suppose Jungmann might be a difficult sign. The best UT draft prospects in recent years haven’t made for easy signs.
I wouldn't mind the Brewers not signing Jungmann
Mid-rotation starter ceiling, high floor…. nothing too exciting. He was considered to be a good prospect because of his polish and his ability to chew up innings rather than his overall stuff. IMO not being able to sign him is nothing to lose sleep over.
by ilikeburritos on Aug 15, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
You're kidding, right?
This is not a farm system that can afford to turn away polished innings-eaters, much less Jungmann, who has a chance to be more than that. You’re selling him short.
by blackoutyears on Aug 15, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Totally agree
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra
To explain my stupidity, me friend who told me this forgot to mention the "before Monday" part.
I feel like such an idiot right now.
LOL
When I was reading it on MLBTR I read the same thing.
by CaptainCanuck on Aug 14, 2011 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I really don't mean to berate you in anyway,
as you did a good job with this, but is there any way you could make the table smaller? The bonus section is cut off (unless it’s just me, then don’t worry about it). Or just eliminate the Signed column all together seeing as how you’d already bolded the players that have already inked.
no it's fine
i’ll adjust it. the whole table fits on my screen so if anyone else is having problems…
R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
http://twitter.com/doublestix
It's not just you.
Having the same problem with both IE and FireFox.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Aug 14, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Dwight Smith signed. no bonus yet.
R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
http://twitter.com/doublestix
Deadline August 15Th ? ....like Monday at midnight Eastern or what...
thanks for anyone who knows
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 14, 2011 8:36 PM EDT reply actions
Im excited to see what Bubaba does
Im a Nebraska fan, and would love it if he chose to play for Darin Erstad
Minor League Ball's 2010 Rookie of the Year Poster
If you didn't know by now, my screen name is sarcastic
he's not going to college
he has leverage, but possibility of a hard slot coming in the next 3 years… His dad is the biggest obstacle at the moment it sounds like.
And Bo Pelini hasn’t helped the case for Nebraska. Nor did leaving the Big 12.
I agree. I never thought college was a realistic option for Starling once he moved into the top 10
The money is too good to go play football and risk injury or just not developing as a running QB. There is very little chance he would get more money in 3 years than the 8 or so million that’s being talked about this year.
and pick 6 in a much weaker draft next year?
unprotected at that
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Aug 15, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
that doesn't really seem to have worked out too badly
The Brewers essentially traded Dylan Covey (crushed this year) for Taylor Jungmann. The Padres traded Whitson for Spandenburger, not great, but probably works out relatively close. The Dbacks traded Barrett Loux for Archie Bradley.
More to my point is, Starling is a nice raw talent, but emphasis on raw. He could be a $8 million player if he shows skills, I don’t deny that. But it’s hard to see where he’s worth that much all things considered right now. He’s not even where Donavan Tate was at in the same point of their development.
And yes, nixa, I’m coming in low on that, so let me correct one thing. I’d be fine with slot, I don’t see reason yet to think he’s a break-the-bank type of draft prospect.
You're probably right, but all signs point to him getting much more than slot.
That’s even more reason for him to sign this year.
That’s what BA reported, and I’ve understood it to be the consensus elsewhere. I’ve never known mrkupe to follow the consensus.
Yep
I know the consensus and I completely respect it. I just disagree with it.
I’ll be the first to tell you that I am wrong sometimes, that’s the nature of these things, but I’ll also be the first to tell you that I learn from being wrong. And, of course, there are times where I end up being very, very right.
I only hope for the best for every player, so I will gladly say that I hope that my assessment is incorrect.
by mrkupe on Aug 15, 2011 4:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Those comparisons (Covey / Jungmann, etc.) are all in cases where the following draft was notably stronger and deeper than the first’s. It’s completely the opposite going from this year to next.
Not at all
A lot depends on signability. Rest assured Bradley is costing more than Loux would have and I’m pretty confident Jungmann is getting more than Covey would gotten.
by mrkupe on Aug 15, 2011 4:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I tend to agree
counting on turning Loux into Archie Bradley is awfully risky, and that’s before you factor in the leverage you’re relinquishing by taking a HS player with an unprotected pick. It remans to be seen whether they traded Loux for nada. DNS is rarely better.
by blackoutyears on Aug 15, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Good points
But this years draft was much better than last years/next years in the minds of experts. It was okay to miss on guys last year to get guys from this year.
The Brewers essentially traded Dylan Covey for Jed Bradley
Rather than Taylor Jungmann
by ilikeburritos on Aug 15, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
How do you figure?
Covey was taken 14th, and Jungmann’s slot is the pick for not signing Covey. Unless there’s some guarantee that Bradley would have been there at 15, and it didn’t matter what order MIL took the two, then DNS Covey=Jungmann by definition.
by blackoutyears on Aug 15, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Except that Bradley's pick was the one for not signing Covey
Jungmann was taken at 12 and Bradley was taken at 15.
Right
just looked it up after posting. Bradley was taken 15th.
by blackoutyears on Aug 15, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
As in money to sign Starling?
Isn’t that below slot?
Rumor on Starling is
5 years, heavy at the back end to keep the kid from quitting and going to play football somewhere.
I agree that moving to the Big Ten hurt his chances
he might face the prospect of actually being, you know, tackled.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Aug 15, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Leaving the Big 12 hurt the case to go to Nebraska??
That’s a pretty huge logic fail.
Why? Kid's from Nebraska
Likely grew watching them play all of their old Big 12 rivals. Just wouldn’t be the same suiting up against a bunch of new teams that you didn’t watch nearly as much growing up.
I would think his dream would be to play for Nebraska
Not play against Texas, etc. Plus it’s not like they left the SEC for the ACC (which is a clear downgrade).
And when he was dreaming, they were probably playing some Big 12 rivals
I would imagine for a lot of people its just not the same now that Nebraska left the Big 12. They didn’t exactly leave for football reasons either…it was more about the academic reputation that comes from being a Big 10 school than anything else.
Huh?
This really isn’t about him signing or anything. A Royals fan brought up that the move to the Big 10 may have rubbed Starling the wrong way. guru4u went out of his way to call it a logic fail saying it didn’t hurt the case to go to Nebraska. I disagree with that.
Obviously the main reason he signed is because of the money. No one ever disputed that fact, so I’m not sure why its relevant to the current discussion. Its not like anyone is using his signing as proof that Nebraska moving to the Big 10 pissed him off.
Sorry for the confusion
I’m talking about the money Nebraska gets from being a Big 10 member. It’s another plus besides the academic reputation of being in the Big 10.
http://bullpenbanter.com
RIP Randy "Macho Man" Savage
No, that's all on me
I didn’t specify what money I was talking, should have made that clear to start.
http://bullpenbanter.com
RIP Randy "Macho Man" Savage
Nice list
only comment is to maybe add a “Last Updated” with time and date at the top
thanks for the list!
Looks great
Ohhh, how different this list will look in 24 hours!
The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. It reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.
Phillies
Ink Larry Greene to a $1MM bonus.
by CaptainCanuck on Aug 15, 2011 1:32 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
FYI
Not sure if this is where you get your info but Perfect Game does a great job tracking signing bonuses…
by YankeesWinTheYankeesWin on Aug 15, 2011 1:51 AM EDT reply actions
Cubs
Look to be wrapping up a good signing period relative to their draft picks. Very few key names left out there.
The biggest is Maples, but there’s heavy rumors suggesting that he’s signing. Rumors are just that until the deadline passes, but it’s a marked difference from a few days ago when talk was that he was still more 50-50.
Another name that’s hanging out there is Shawon Dunston, and that one is going to come down to the wire as well. I’m not too broken up about missing on Taylor Dugas. Not getting Jacob Lindgren hurts, but they were going to miss on some. Ricky Jacquez was always more of a dream than realistic hope, and supposedly, the Cubs gave effort there, more than perfunctory duties. I’d love it if we could get Zimmer/Asmus in here, but you can’t hit on everyone.
Whether or not these guys are the right guys/develop is a fair question, but the Ricketts regime is spending on the draft, a marked difference from 2 years ago.
Maples
Will have to go way over slot to get him – think Melville a couple of years ago with the Royals. I’d guess it will take around $800k to sign him…but they could pull it off.
I thought the word on Maples was that it was going to cost 2.5-3.5 MM to get him away from UNC?
And that the Cubs were already willing to meet the demand, it was just a matter of whether or not Maples could bring himself to miss out on the college experience
that's pretty much the rumor
Obviously, just rumors and nothing is known, but here’s hoping. Gonna be tough for him to turn it down – no guarantee he’ll get that in 3 years, and he’s got limited pro potential in football.
Some guys just really value the college experience
I also assume Dillon’s father has told him all about his experience over 5 years in the minors as a HS draftee, and it could simply be that he’d doesn’t mind risking the money if it means he gets to spend the next 3 years developing in Chapel Hill instead of riding a bus around in the low minors. Having a UNC degree to fall back on isn’t exactly a bad consolation prize either.
any other team
and I’d encourage every kid to go to college. But since I’m a Cubs fan … screw it Dillon, sign.
yeap
UNC folks are pretty confident he’s staying in Chapel Hill right now.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 15, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
…there are rumors everywhere that he walked off the football field and told his teammates he signed with the Cubs..has something changed?
"He will be signing"
Kendall Rodgers Tweet on Maples.
Kendall Rogers is now stating
that Maples did not show up for football practice, and has signed for big $$.
http://www.bleachernation.com/2011/08/15/report-dillon-maples-has-indeed-signed-with-cubs/
by PrincetonCubs on Aug 15, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I find it humorous
that a unc.scout.com poster outscooped everyone on this.
I know, seriously
college football forums are no joke
by PrincetonCubs on Aug 15, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
you're not kidding
I remember looking at the LSU SB Nation site last year when Zach Lee jumped ship late . . .to say they were crushed over there might be a mild understatement.
Very few key names
Well, Baez is a pretty important one. Any word on him? Can’t wait to see how much Maples made. Almost surely over-priced from what I’ve seen, though he has his fans.
by blackoutyears on Aug 15, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Baez will get done, if it isn't done already
Maples is the interesting one. His stuff is some of the best in the draft, but the short arm action gives one reason to pause. I guess if it works for Tommy Hanson it could work for Maples. Admittedly this is a bad time to say that, as Hanson just went on the DL with shoulder issues.
true
sorry, I should’ve mentioned him, but the chatter was that Baez was a done deal and waiting until the deadline to announce, and in my earlier post, I was thinking more about guys where things weren’t viewed that.
He might get Bauer-ish money. Going to be pretty insane. I’m happy the Cubs are adding him (particularly since velo is supposedly up), but I have enough apprehension about him that I’m not sold he’s a lock to be top 10 in the system.
I haven't loved
what I’ve seen of Maples — RynoRooter is dead on with the arm action imo — but there’s no doubt he’s got big stuff. I don’t usually put a future reliever tag on a HS kid, but for some reason he strikes me that way. I’m hoping I’m way off base.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
That arm action is ugly…maybe they can fix it in the pros.
by cookiedabookie on Aug 16, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
We'll see
You don’t want to mess with him too much. The curve is a big part of his appeal, so it’s definitely a ’first do no harm" situation.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Really short in the back,
almost a stab. Causes him to lose FB command and shape on his curve a good bit of the time. I think it could be a long term command issue if he doesn’t resolve it. An area guy and a retired scout I talked to gave him a “future reliever” tag. I’m not a big fan of that — there’s an epidemic of that with Lance McCullers at the moment for instance — but there are guys for whom it makes more sense. Stetson Allie was a guy last year who just looked a long way off from being a starter for me. Maples is another.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Is that really the cause of losing shape on the curve?
I know Tommy Hanson is short in the back too, and he get as much movement on his curve as just about anyone in baseball
In Maples' case
that was the diagnosis of both guys. They felt that it was affecting his stride and release point. The Cubs either don’t mind or feel confident that they can fix it.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
And Hanson
has a pronounced delay in his delivery, and no issues with maintaining his release point that I’ve seen. Saying that they’re both short in the back ignores some major differences in their deliveries.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really
The issue with Maples sounds like a timing problem, not an arm action problem. The short arm action may be hurting his timing, but there are plenty of ways to go about fixing it without actually changing the arm action.
I don't know
any pitching coach who prefers a pitcher to be short in back. They may accommodate it, and if it works it works, but using an outlier like Hanson as evidence of efficacy doesn’t hold water. Citing outliers to prove a point never does. There are also concerns (hopes?) that the arm stroke is costing him velocity.
Bottom line, I’m not the only one saying this, and I’m not really interested in indulging one of your protracted nit-picking sub-threads. Unless you’ve watched him pitch and can offer an opinion based on something you’ve actually seen, rather than surmise and theory, I’m getting off the bus at this stop.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
What the hell man? That came off pretty dickish
I was simply trying to understand what was the worry with Maples. After talking to you it sounds like timing and release point are the main issue. I wasn’t looking for an argument, just more info (and thanks for providing it).
Not trying to be a dick,
just not in the mood for some long and winding discussion like the Henderson Alvarez changeup debate where you’re basically theorizing with no concrete basis for the theory, and I’m not interested in arguing by proxy for the opinions of sources with whom I’ve spoken. Why not just go find some Dillon Maples video — not sure if there’s any 2011 material but there was a lot fo 2010 — and mull it over? I appreciate the opinions of yours that are based on having seen the player, as with Teheran.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
And to clarify,
it’s stuff like, “Not really, it sounds like a timing problem…” that annoys. So you’re comfortable weighing in based on extrapolation from a second-hand opinion I’ve posted? Not. Buying. See the guy yourself. Form an opinion. Argue it. But “sounds like” in this context is a non-starter for me.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Depends on the subject
But on this one, yeah. All the things you brought up have to do with a timing problem. One way to fix that timing problem would be messing with his arm action, but there are much safer and more minor changes that should probably be tried first. I think the reason that the guys you talked to brought up the arm action as the problem is because its the thing that stands out on video and it does help explain the problem. I just don’t think its the sole cause of the problem or the one I would focus on if I was working with Maples.
Let's just leave it at that
So we don’t end up in that long winded discussion you’re looking to avoid.
All the things you brought up have to do with a timing problem.
Yes, everything except the considered opinions of two professionals who’d seen him multiple times that the arm circle was having exactly the effects I initially mentioned. Everything except those. lol
Have a good one.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe not explicitly
But they said the arm action was affecting his stride and release point. Guess was those things have in common? They all have to do with timing. What they’re actually saying is that the timing of his arm action doesn’t consistently match his stride length which causes him to lose his release point. And guess what losing your release point will cause…loss of sharpness on breaking balls and FB command. See how that all works in a nice chain of logic? But what do I know about pitching…
But hey, someone you mistook for me was pulling stuff out of their ass on Henderson Alvarez, so you clearly have every reason to disregard what I have to say.
I'm assuming that last petty dig was at me
Have you watched Alvarez?
According to blackoutyears
I was arguing about theories on Alvarez and his change without ever having seen him pitch. Since I’ve never discussed Alvarez on this site, I have no idea what he’s talking about. Did you and him argue about it?
I was discussing Alvarez with someone.
I wouldn’t call it an argument as I just theorized his change was more split finger like because of what LH batters do. Having now seen him I’m not sure my opinion changes it flashes plus or even plus plus at times, sometimes has split action and sometimes just an average change. Lots of potential.
Fwiw I think the problem is the change has the same shape as his fastball. Kid needs a slider or cutter.
Yes,
definitely pedrophile. Hard to keep up with all the “theorists” on the board. Seriously not trying to offend you guys, and my response was way too harsh, nixa, so I apologize. I have a limited tolerance for this sot of theorizing, which is akin to describing your friend’s behavioral disorder to a psychologist and asking for a diagnosis.
And to respond to your thesis, no, they were not saying that “the timing of his arm action doesn’t consistently match his stride length”, what they were saying was that his arm action led to a less than optimal stride length and a cascading effect, hence, fix the arm action and the stride. But what do they know about pitching? lol
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Are they scouts or pitching coaches?
Serious question. I would expect a scout to see that something is wrong, but no necessarily know the best way of fixing it. Personally, from watching video and what you’ve heard I would focus on him getting his hands lower before he breaks them as the first possible solution. It would allow him to lengthen his arm circle without the wholesale changes involved with reworking the arm action. Just my opinion as a humble pitching coach of young ball players.
Not sure about the area scout's
background, but the retired scout is a former pitcher. We spoke in general terms about that arm circle, and he’s just not a fan. Can’t remember whom he cited (Beaven?) as an example of a HS kid who threw reasonably hard as an amateur but steadily lost velo due to the the failure to correct the stab.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
beavan would be an interesting name to invoke
He threw VERY hard as an amateur, topping out 95-97 mph. His mechanics were considered extremely high risk, however, and he was called an “injury waiting to happen” by more than one person.
The Rangers drafted him, completely revamped his mechanics . . .and by the next season, his fastball had lost 3-5 mph. He’s managed to stay healthy, so I guess it worked. It was still pretty weird to see a guy going from being one of the best pure power arms in his class to turning into a finesse guy overnight.
Kupe
That;s an interesting point with Beavan. I think its an interesting question as to whether or not it was the right decision in retrospect. I guess it kept him healthy, but its possible he could have anyway and there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of upside in the current version of Beavan.
Quick question
When you say arm action, are you referring to the full arm circle or the action basically from around foot plant through release. I’ve always thought of it as the latter, but I don’t know if that’s the “accepted” definition or not.
For me it's
the full circle, just the arm rotation in the back from pick-up to point of forward motion, and that’s how I’ve always discussed it with people with a lot more knowledge of pitching mechanics than I possess.
Beaven (and he may simply be a name that popped into my head, I really can’t recall) did throw hard, and I tend to think that the Rangers knew what they were doing. And aside from these two guys, multiple other sources have cited the arm action as the basis for a late-inning relief profile. I really, really go out of my way to avoid those predictions, but it’s out there.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, and I mean that's
the definition of arm circle; I missed your wording. I agree with you on the loose definiton of “arm action”.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Aha so you are an anti theorist, does that make you a proctologist?
Btw I was guessing more than anything based on his numbers not really matching scouting reports. I’m pretty happy with my guesses so far ;)
What did you think of Alvarez?
I'm sure
there’s ample terrain between theorist and proctologist, though both involve pulling things out of asses. lol
We did agree to reconvene on Alvarez post-Futures game, but as always those showcase events are too short to give much info besides general impressions on delivery and physical attributes (think about Paxton’s inning for instance, all FBs). Have you seen either of Alvarez’s starts?
by blackoutyears on Aug 17, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw him and like his potential but saying he doesn't K a lot because of pitching to contact is way off base IMO
Fastball – consistently around 95, a few flat ones but most had good movement and a couple were just nasty. It has good arm side run and nice depth.
Change – at times it looks like a split, more often like a change. Sometimes it’s nasty.
The biggest drawback for me was I didn’t see much of a third pitch and his FB CH combo had almost identical shape. Hitters were leaning out and dropping the bat head for good contact on some of his good changes, the nasty ones they couldn’t touch.
The good side is I could see both pitches being plus pitches with more consistency. A big curve or sweeping slider would help a ton.
Yeah,
I tended to trust the reports saying he didn’t have a great breaking ball over the ones saying it was plus. Being an amateur theorist (to your maestro) it made the most sense based on his results.
The plus FB/plus change combo sounds bit like Volquez, though Alvarez is much more of a strike thrower from what I’ve read and what little I’ve seen, and Volquez’s change is plus-plus on occasion and one of the best in the league. Volquez can win, and even flourish, with just two pitches, but they really need to be on and he has to be thowing strikes. This type of pitcher is frustrating as hell when one of the pitches is blinking on and off.
by blackoutyears on Aug 17, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Wasn't looking for one either
Not sure what you’re talking about with regards to Henderson Alvarez. I’m pretty sure I’ve never even discussed him on this site, let alone had a drawn out debate over it. As someone interested in him, I wouldn’t mind a link to the discussion though.
Re: Allie future reliever
This is/was because of a lack of a third pitch, right? If so, why so much doubt he can develop a third (change-up, etc…)?
More control/command
His delivery was very sound — he’s a good athlete so not terribly surprising — but he didn’t have great feel and didn’t throw a ton of strikes. His Dad had used him as a closer until his senior year, so there was definitely an issue of innings and experience to overcome. At a certain point you have to wonder if the parent club is going to stick with long term development or just cut bait and move to Plan B.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The dragback
when he is in the windup is bothersome. Nick Struck has some similar issues. I don’t think it is something that can’t be corrected, but he has to re-train the muscle memory. The Cubs have managed to fix some mechanics in recent years, but that was when Riggins was in the minors as the pitching coordinator (and they’ve had their fair share of misses).
Oddly, the video I’ve seen of him in the stretch doesn’t seem to be as big a concern, IMO.
the stretch doesn’t seem to be as big a concern
In a way that makes sense, I suppose. The stride most pitchers take from the stretch probably meshes better with his arm circle.
And yeah, I think this is fixable. That said, I do think it needs fixing, not accommodation.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Rays
I’m hoping they get Guerrieri, Mahtook, and Garvin because it looks like they will be missing out on highschoolers JD Davis and Trevor Mitsui.
The first three are significantly more important than the last two
And I’d be shocked if any of the three don’t sign.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Garvin
In the most recent BA podcast “unique” and “complicated” is how the Garvin situation is being described. Saying stuff like “We shouldn’t talk about it in greater detail…..right now” and that it has hit an “unexpected snag”. In other words they know what is going on but can’t say yet. I don’t really want to speculate on what that might be. They go team by team on that podcast. If anyone has the time I’d recommend checking it out.
to clarify
They did not imply that he was not going to sign. They just did not want to talk about it. I assume it is because they know info that they can’t report yet.
Interesting
I can’t imagine him going back to Vandy.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Goedell is important too, I'd really like to get his bat in the system.
If the Rays fail hard here this draft could be a huge down fall of the organization as it was supposed to be the draft that turned them into not just contenders for the next couple years but kept them strong 5-10 years down the road. It is really early but Cameron Seitzer is about the only guy looking really strong.
Johnny Eierman is the big get as far as those that have already signed
Guerrieri will be the big get once they ink him.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Sounds like Mitsui, Davis, AND English won't be signing.
That is some high upside to let go. Really really sad, as there is no compensation. I would hope that the Rays at least thought they were going to get 2/3.
Matt Dean signed - BIG fan
jimcallisBA Jim Callis
#BlueJays have agreed w/13th-rder Matt Dean. Texas HS 3B, plus power, solid bat, sandw-rd talent. No word on $ yet. #Texas recruit #mlbdraft
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
NO WAYYYYYYYYY
wow that had to cost a bit, I didn’t think he’d sign at all when he went that late in draft….coulda been 3rd round pick
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 15, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I thought he was a supplemental talent
And he basically got paid like one
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Great signing by the Jays
I think I saw it took around $750K.
Teams are probably kicking themselves after seeing how much he signed for. No way he falls to the 13th round if teams actually thought he’d sign for less than $750k.
Agreed
Like my team who signed Tyler Glasnow for 600,000$ (yes you said “who!?!”). Oh well. AA looks like he really knows what he’s doing while drafting.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 15, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
If the Jays don't pony up a few more $
Which by 11:59 tonight, the Jays will
apparently, the sides are "millions apart"
and maybe on Comer, as well
by PrincetonCubs on Aug 15, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
KendallRogersPG Kendall Rogers
Have reason to believe you can move that percentage on #Mets 15th-rdr Phillip Evans more in direction of signing, not #SDSU. We’ll see.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
And now confirmed that he’s signed with the Mets. After years of signing slop-throwing seventh year college seniors for the Padres, NOW Alderson’s decided to go for athletes!?
by realitypolice on Aug 15, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Evans is more of an undersized second baseman with a plus hit tool
A Tony Wolters is the usual comp. But I guess that IS an athlete in comparison.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Sox guys
The mood around Sox Prospects is that all four of the top picks will sign as well as Senquez Golson. It is believed that 5th rounder Mookie Betts and 12th rounder Deshorn Lake will NOT sign
Brandon Jacobs of Lowell > Brandon Jacobs of NYG
Not draft
But the PTBNL (4th player) going to the Astros in the Hunter Pence trade is Domingo Santana
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
yeah trade looks even better for 'stros now
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 15, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
looks solid
Obviously a high-risk player, but he adds yet more quality depth to a system that has desperately needed it.
Yeah
The Astros’ system was looking awfully bad after the callups of Lyles, Altuve, and Martinez, but these deadline trades have fortified it pretty well, and adding Springer (assuming he signs) should be another nice boost.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
KendallRogersPG Kendall Rogers
Hearing there’s reason for #Florida to be cautiously optimistic about #Padres first-supplemental pick Michael Kelly. We’ll see. #mlbdraft
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
That would be a tough one to lose for the Pads
I’m a big fan of Kelly.
Man, the Padres draft is going to look suspect if they miss out on both
KendallRogersPG Kendall Rogers
Source: #NCState has a pretty solid shot to get #Padres first-supp pick Brett Austin on campus. Recently turned down 7 figures. #mlbdraft
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Dang
Do these HS pitchers realize what their home park would be if they made it to the bigs with the Pads?
Austin's a catcher
Not sure why San Diego is having so much difficulty with their top picks.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Of course, I should wait until the deadline passes to say that
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Yeah.
I’m not sure how much these rumors are worth.
A pirate I was meant to be!
"You say you're nasty pirates,
scheming, thieving, bad bushwackers?
From what I've seen I tell you
You're not pirates, you're just slackers!"
by Zach (maestro876) on Aug 15, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
So in other words
They drafted two catchers named Austin with top picks, neither of whom are from Texas, and will sign neither?
by mrkupe on Aug 15, 2011 5:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
One’s a first name; one’s a last name, neither’s a Longhorn.
And the one with the last name is almost certainly signing.
by realitypolice on Aug 15, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you have new information that contradicts Kendall Rogers?
I wouldn’t rule it out or anything based on a mid day rumor, but I’m assuming you do since you used the term “almost certainly.”
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
I could rephrase it as “he would be an utter moron not to sign”
Being on campus doesn’t mean jack shit (This is just one other reason the signing deadline should move up out of fairness to the players, the college coaches, the MLB clubs, the kids who would otherwise have a scholarship to play baseball at D1 schools… on and on. Of all the AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL things about Bud Selig, the fact that he’s responsible for this debacle is right near the top.)
by realitypolice on Aug 15, 2011 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Its not costing anyone a D1 scholarship
If a guy is good enough to deserve some of baseballs limited scholarship money, he’s already on the team’s roster regardless of what the draft picks decide.
So you think there are more scholarships than D1 players available?
There are always people on the border that could use that scholarship.
Other way around
There are way, way less scholarships available than D1 players. The extra scholarship money that becomes available would go to guys already on the roster regardless.
Serious question
Do teams recruit expecting to lose a certain percentage of their signings in baseball? I know Miami was hit hard last year. It seems like South Carolina and Kennesaw State, among others, have been hit hard this year.
Probably would help if I explained how baseball scholarships work
Its not like football where you get limited to 25 scholarships a year but everyone of them is a full scholarship. In baseball you have the value of 11.7 scholarships to divide however you see fit among your players. Pretty much all these guys signing does is allow their coaches to give the money they had allocated to them to other players on the roster.
I get that.
I was curious if they sign more players than they need, expecting some of them to sign professionally or if they just deal with the gaps created in the roster until the following year?
yeah, I've always been really interested in reading a piece about the technicalities and the uniqueness of the baseball scholarship system
From what I understand, it’s pretty rare to see a full scholarship offer on the table for even the better prospects. I’d love to hear more about how the system actually works in practice, what sort of things go into deciding how much of a scholarship a player is offered, etc.
In trying to fit it into one five-word phrase, I missed my bigger point.
The guy who’s going to benefit at UCLA if Austin Hedges should happen to sign isn’t the next-best kid that UCLA recruited… it’s the next-best kid who DIDN’T accept the money at a lesser D1 school [as a Wildcat, I realize that compared to the Bruins, that’s a VERY small group of schools! :)] and is currently on campus in Brentwood. It’s sort of a trickle-down, so the kids who really lose out are guys lower-tier D1 schools.
by realitypolice on Aug 15, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Those guys don't really lose out either
I mean they chose to play elsewhere in order to get that money knowing full well that they could have eventually earned the money at the better school. And they’re still getting the money at the lesser school. Oh, and baseball doesn’t have the transfer rule (at least they didn’t last I checked), so they can always transfer to the better school. Literally all this does is open up more money for the remaining guys on the roster. Its not hurting anyone to any real extent.
You lose a season if your transfer
from D1 to D1 school…
by realitypolice on Aug 15, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess they changed the rule back then
There were at least a few seasons there that you could transfer once without penalty as long as you had multiple years of eligibility left.
Either way, I completely disagree with the idea that the signing deadline being when it is actually hurts college baseball players.
on the bright side for ballplayers
Transferring down in competition isn’t considered nearly as pejorative to a player’s standing in baseball as it is in football. The best community college programs can always bring it, and there’s been a number of highly rated draft prospects who have made their mark in D2 and then gone on to terrific pro careers.
Cubs
jimcallisBA Jim Callis
#Cubs sign 4th-rder Tony Zych for $400k. Louisville RHP has big arm (94-97 to 99), possible closer if he refines his slider. #mlbdraft
Law tweeted earlier that he expects them to get Dunston signed. I’d still prefer Maples but both is great. No real doubts about Baez or Vogelback. Turned out to be a pretty good draft for the Cubs.
by philadelphiacub on Aug 15, 2011 4:03 PM EDT reply actions
Cubs shell out for Vogelbach
announced at 1.6 million.
https://twitter.com/#!/KendallRogersPG/status/103219924578734081
by PrincetonCubs on Aug 15, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I think so too
That’s a lot of money for one tool, even power.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
He has the complete offensive game
He’s not just a masher.
He can hit,
but it’s not some plus hit tool. You didn’t just get Pujols if that’s what you’re hoping, and the Fielder comps seem fairly lazy (bad body kid who squares up pitches). I like him, but there’s a reasonably high bust possibility here.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
No doubt
But his hit tool is above average to go along with good pitch recogniction and plate discipline. He’s not merely a powerful 1B prospect with nothing else. He’s not Rich Poythress.
wow...
$1.6M- this seems like madness to me. larry greene who arguably has more raw power and more tools signed for $1M. now i’m interested to see what travis harrison signs for…
Very debatable about the power aspect
But I don’t think you could find anybody that would take Greene’s all-around offensive game over Vogelbach’s. No doubt Greene offers better other tools, though.
Cubs also shell out for Dunston
1.275m. another good get.
by PrincetonCubs on Aug 15, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Good
pick up. Still need Cole, Bell, and Brown to make it a truly elite class. Bell looks to be the major road bump, but crazier things have happened.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 15, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Cole is a lock to sign, Brown only slightly less so
I feel Bell signs as well, but no reason to say so – other than him hiring Boras as an adviser. Why he would do that if there was no chance to sign is beyond me.
Another really good draft for the Bucs.
by BuccoFanInTheDesert on Aug 15, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Heres
to hoping.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 15, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Slightly less so?
Brown is having a fantastic summer and will need to get a lot of cash to sign. I think there’s a good chance that they get him, but he’s not anywhere near a lock.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Well
it’s been reported a few times that Brown has already signed but it’s just not been approved. I’d go more likely than not but I agree it’s not a lock.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 15, 2011 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't say he was a lock....
But, from the PGH sources I trust, he will be/or is signed.
by BuccoFanInTheDesert on Aug 15, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Tyler Anderson
expected to sign, slightly above slot ~$1.7M
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_18682951?source=mng_fulltext
KG just threw out a Purke rumor that he might get a ML deal
sounds absurd to me.
R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
http://twitter.com/doublestix
do what you gotta do to sign him...
if thats what it takes to get that kinda talent in the organization with a 3rd round pick you do it…but yeah…its not ideal
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Aug 15, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't necessarily disagree
i just don’t think Purke is that kind of talent.
R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
http://twitter.com/doublestix
Nah, unless you contend that he wasn't healthy for any of the 2011 season
Because his command and stuff were way down last year even before the arm concerns. There’s just too much risk there for me to go with an MLB deal.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Some think he had the arm concerns all year
But was merely trying to pitch through it.
not too surprising
If Purke signs, it’s almost certainly going to have to be a major league deal to get him the money that he wants.
Still feeling pretty good about my prediction that he signs.
Seems REALLY risky
for a guy who may or may not be able to pitch next year. If he has surgery, then he’s already on option year two before he ever throws a professional pitch…
by realitypolice on Aug 15, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
does Purke need surgery?
I know his stuff was very much down this year, but he seems to have a clear bill of health, even after being given a physical by the Nationals (which he passed).
hadn't heard that
I still think it would be risky…
by realitypolice on Aug 15, 2011 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I don't think he's injured
They feared he may need surgery mid season, shut him down, and he was fine. Now, his stuff/command wasn’t fine, but his arm was.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Rumor is:
ML deal, at least $3m, several yrs
Don't take this the wrong way
but how do people ever post things like this without a link? I’m not sure I get the thought process there. I’m not seeing anything about Purke from the national writers.
Does Rendon play if he signs
Think Auburn in the NYPA gives him two weeks of AB’s as they chase the NYPA title
really?
I mean, I guess they could send him for a couple of games of ABs as a DH. But I was thinking that he’d probably make his pro debut at the AFL, and at the very least he’d stay off the field until then. You would know better than I would about these sorts of things, though.
They might do that
Those August 15th signings usually get about a week’s worth of ABs before the season is over.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
But if he signs a major league deal
then the club would presumably want him to sign a 2012 contract so his clock on option years doesn’t start until 2012. Not worth it to get him 40 at-bats at the expense of a potential extra year of options.
by realitypolice on Aug 15, 2011 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Certainly plausible
I wasn’t considering finances.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Excellent signing for the Pirates
jimcallisBA Jim Callis
#Pirates have signed Clay Holmes. Asking price was $1.2 mil, believed to have gotten it, all-time 9th-rd record. #mlbdraft
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
You
don’t think that was a bit much? Especially considering what Matt Dean signed for for example?
Switching subjects a bit.. does that erase any hope of a Bell signing that was left?
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 15, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't think that would exclude a Bell signing
Bell is a special case player and always has been.
I'd rather have Matt Dean, but Clay Holmes is talented
The actual bonus number in these cases don’t bother me at all as they’re all significantly less than the player would receive if they weren’t forced to deal with one team. If he hits, the team will get SIGNIFICANT surplus value.
This signing probably isn’t related to Bell, but I don’t think he’s really in play (could be wrong).
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
That's
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 15, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Callis working hard
To sell this deal. Why? BBA"s profile was lukewarm on this kid.
by ttnorm on Aug 15, 2011 8:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
How is he working hard to 'sell this deal'?
From my perspective, he reported they signed him; they signed him to a record for 9th Rd selection; and, that he got the money he wanted.
How is that ‘selling this deal’?
Reese is the one who said ‘excellent signing’, not Callis.
by BuccoFanInTheDesert on Aug 15, 2011 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
And I'm not trying to sell anything
Holmes is a high upside arm, and the Pirates paid what it took to get him to forgo college. I like it.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
No problem
I thought there may be more info that I wasn’t privy to.
Re: Reese – I like the signing as well. Money, to me, is of no issue, as I think you get the best bang for your buck in the draft – especially for teams like the Pirates. I would want them to increase their Draft budget well before their ML budget.
By the way, Jeff – thanks for posting on these forums. Your constant insight is incredibly helpful and appreciated to a novice to most MiLB prospects. Keep it up.
by BuccoFanInTheDesert on Aug 15, 2011 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
No problem at all (and thanks for compliment)
I enjoy the discussions…most of the time at least.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
To
answer myself a bit.
keithlawkeithlaw
Wrong. RT @Sam_Vecenie: @keithlaw Holmes signing has to mean no Bell for the Bucs right?
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 15, 2011 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
royals
3rd round P Bryan Brickhouse $1.5 million
4th round P Kyle Smith $695k
5th round 3B Pat Leonard $600k
29th round P Jake Junis $675k
also getting late word of signing 16th round SS Jack Lopez and 30th round P Mark Binford. Lopez might have got 7 figures. i certainly didn’t think they’d be spending this much dough today.
just Bubba left.
R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
http://twitter.com/doublestix
royals farm
Perhaps the recent series of promotions to the majors and injuries have inspired them to open up the checkbook. We’ve seen it with the Rangers as well . . .building a well-stocked farm system to use for cost-controlled talent and trade bait is good practice, but maintaining it is an addiction.
i'm just a little surprised they dished out for the later round guys
i didn’t expect 16, 29, or 30 to sign. saw them as backup plans if one of the top guys went awry. the Royals have spent in recent years, but it’s been mostly for top guys who fell like Melville and Myers, and their first round picks.
R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
http://twitter.com/doublestix
I really like Brickhouse, but 1.5MM?
That seems high on him.
it is kinda high
but, as billybeingbilly said above, you gotta do what you gotta do to sign them if you like the player. they knew before hand Brickhouse was asking for a truck load.
R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
http://twitter.com/doublestix
Lopez got $750k
he was asking for a lot more at the beginning of the day. some guys want to play.
R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
http://twitter.com/doublestix
Cards
Signed 2nd Rdr Charles Tilson for $1.275M and assigned to GCL. This helps make the Cards draft look better.
Anyone heard anything on our 20th Rd pick; Aramis Garcia, Catcher, FL HS? He is the only non-signed Cards pick that excites me that hasn’t announced he won’t sign. In fact since the draft (where he was said to be a tough sign) I haven’t heard a peep on him.
Redbird Dugout
http://www.redbirddugout.com
big payday
I figured he was destined to sign in any event (I know the area and the school that he’s from, but still . . .Illinois commitment?), but he sure managed to get his money and then some in the process.
Very interesting tools guy, nice blend of intelligence and physical ability out of a cold weather player.
Cody Kukuk signed
according to Kansas broadcaster, not sure of the money
Brandon Jacobs of Lowell > Brandon Jacobs of NYG
Callis
says the same thing.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 15, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Grayson Garvin
370 K. Isn’t that about 3rd round money? Seems a little light for where he was drafted.
I'd still like to hear more about those issues that BA wasn't willing to talk about
Wondering if they weren’t willing to talk in order to protect their connection, whether it was a personal friendly relationship with the school’s personnel or a professional relationship that gave them inside information.
Could it be something health related?
Because it would be illegal to allow that information to get out, meaning BA couldn’t say anything without getting their source into a ton of trouble.
FWIW, MiLB fans....
PiratesProspects.com is a site that anyone who is interested in Bucco prospects should visit. I know most on here are fans of any informative site that deals with MiLB players. This is a can’t miss.
In reality, it’s the only site that deals with the Pirates worth reading. I wish there were more, but Tim (editor of site) has cornered the market and makes any visits to any other sites worthless. Support him by visiting if you get the chance and the inclination.
by BuccoFanInTheDesert on Aug 15, 2011 11:10 PM EDT reply actions
he makes them worthless?
That’s a little . . .harsh . . .
Worthless
I say!
Seriously, It is a good site, but there are tons of good sites out there, for Pirates fans, and every other team as well.
Great to have baseball websites in general that are good reads and informative, such as this one.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 15, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Name some?
WHYGAVS is a good site to read, but doesn’t break any news.
Bucsdugout is a site that thinks NH is in over his head and has all of the ‘internet guys’ who think they know more than the GM. Plus, their editor speaks on subjects that he possesses 0% of the facts.
I’m just saying, for a guy who has considered starting a Pirates blog, there is really no reason to do so: Tim at P2 has the market cornered. Sure, I know more than Charlie Wilmoth, but who doesn’t? From reading your stuff, Cutch, I would presume you know more than him as well.
The market, for Bucs info, is cornered.
by BuccoFanInTheDesert on Aug 15, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you Tim from PiratesProspects.com?
"BA doesn't stand for Batting Average. It’s Brandon Allen, as in the percentage of a hitter’s worth compared to Brandon Allen. Ted Williams, at his best, was only 4/10th of the hitter Brandon Allen is today." - YonYonson
by hero66 on Aug 15, 2011 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
HaHa.....
Nope, just a fan of his stuff (no homo).
Seriously, his site rules and, considering the other Pirate sites out there, it makes it even better.
Tim’s Mom
by BuccoFanInTheDesert on Aug 16, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Dillon
Howard signed according to Callis for 1.85 mil. Nice by Cleveland.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 15, 2011 11:25 PM EDT reply actions
Good
I really wanted him to get into pro ball. I think he’ll really benefit from minor league instruction, as the stuff is right there.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Stephonson may not get done
KendallRogersPG Kendall Rogers
With the signing deadline 20 minutes away, I’m hearing that it’s iffy on whether Robert Stephenson goes to college or signs with #Reds.
Amir Garrett Signs
Reds 22nd Rd pick and known for his raw athletic pitching talent got a $1M 2 sport deal spread over 5 years. He is best known for being a very good college basketball recruit for St. Johns. Very good signing by the Reds. Anytime you get the type of upside that Garrett has in the 22nd Rd and get him signed you have to feel good.
Redbird Dugout
http://www.redbirddugout.com
Apparently he will also be playing basketball at St. John's
He’s a four star hoops recruit at SF according to Scout.
Intriguing.
by Outshined_One on Aug 15, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
There was talk about him signing with the Reds ever since he was picked
and playing basketball. Had to figure that in order to get him to sign it was going to take letting him play basketball. Will be interesting to watch, he’s pretty raw and has no real secondary pitches from what I heard. Reds like athletes as pitchers though.
I have a feeling this will end like #Jagrwatch
There’s a giant kick in the balls coming. Something like
“Pirates were never close on Josh Bell and never offered more than slot.”
It isn't a kick in the balls
When you don’t sign a player no one thinks you were going to sign in the first place.
by auclairkeithbc on Aug 16, 2011 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Purke
jimcallisBA Jim Callis
#Nationals give 3rd-rder Matt Purke 4-yr big lg deal. Details to come, total guarantee close to No. 3 pick Trevor Bauer ($4.4 mil) #mlbdraft
Again, good news for the player
Sometimes I feel like the last Matt Purke believer (so homo). sob.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Which Bell? Don't F with me, dude....
by BuccoFanInTheDesert on Aug 16, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
People are talking about it at BucsDugout
what does P2 say?
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Aug 16, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Josh
Bell signs.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 16, 2011 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSs
NH just shit on BucsDugout’s ‘know-it-alls’ head…..
Welcome, Josh. I love you Neal Huntington (no homo).
by BuccoFanInTheDesert on Aug 16, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait
what.. Most people over at bucsdugout thought he’d sign.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 16, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Not the editor....
After Holmes signed, he said, “i’d imagine that means Bell won’t be signing.”
He also said that he’ll ‘believe it when he sees it’ referring to the Pirates spending upwards of 12-15 million on the draft.
He’s a tool, he’s a struggling musician, he’s been proven wrong.
by BuccoFanInTheDesert on Aug 16, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
he’s a struggling musician
Well, duh. That explains everything. lol
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
You're
an idiot. He’s not a tool. He gave his opinion on his blog. Go away.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 16, 2011 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why the hate, man?
I don’t think the editor of a blog is reliable, credible, or knowledgeable?
And, that makes me an idiot?
I hope John or a moderator takes care of your post…..
by BuccoFanInTheDesert on Aug 16, 2011 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Haha
“why the hate, man?” he says.
I don’t care about Charlie much either way, and I like BD for the live threads and community. I’ve found Charlie to be at least pretty good.
I’m not sure what the big problem is, read what you want. But don’t be so sensitive to “hating” after you just made a post calling someone a tool and pointing out the relevant fact that he may be a struggling musician
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
Because you're calling out the editor for another blog here
For his completely reasonable opinions ending up being wrong.
As an unattached third party bystander I’d probably agree with his assessment based on the post he was responding to. Probably should have called the post itself idiotic instead of calling you an idiot, but seriously man why are you calling out an editor from Bucs Dugout here?
just to be clear
You’re perfectly entitled to hold your opinion and to publicly point out where you think the opinion held on a different site is wrong.
I don’t believe, however, that extending your critique into a general denouncement of the content and the creator of said site is in the best interests of discussion here.
That being said, your unfortunate lack of tact doesn’t give others the excuse to call you an idiot. So let’s just all agree to walk away from this now.
All good points.....
I am simply saying that the guy speaks from a perspective that lacks facts and legitimate information. He has been proven wrong time and again….which, after awhile, speaks to his credibility.
I don’t think he’s credible, nor worth discussing. However, since he opines to a larger audience than deserved, I feel he should be called out for his factual inaccuracies as well as his opinions that have been proven wrong over and over. He is a tool (in the sense he is often wrong) and ignorant (in the sense he doesn’t have the facts).
My opinion, however, should not make me an idiot. It may make me wrong (in some’s eyes) but not an idiot (at least as that term is commonly defined).
I say he’s a ‘struggling musician’ to let outsiders know that he isn’t a scout, nor an informed blogger. He is an ‘opiner’….and one that doesn’t know that much or has been proven right in any situation. In essence, he’s a no one. That’s fine – he’s a blogger.
But, he’s no Tim at PirateProspects – as even he would admit. That’s all….
by BuccoFanInTheDesert on Aug 16, 2011 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Factual
inaccuracies? Seriously?
No where did he say that the Holmes signing guaranteed Bell wouldn’t be signed.
He simply opined that he felt the Holmes signing was an indicator that Bell wouldn’t sign. Had he been right and you been wrong, should we point out the problems in your career, or this or that etc.
My opinion, however, should not make me an idiot. It may make me wrong (in some’s eyes) but not an idiot (at least as that term is commonly defined).
That’s such a hypocritical statement I don’t know where to being. Charlie reports anything as “fact” until it is fact. Just because he’s a “struggling musician” doesn’t mean he doesn’t know baseball or isn’t informed. He knows alot about baseball.
Your post and your attitude is both sickening and repulsive. You’re trashing a man’s reputation and his work because you’re upset he dared to disagree with you.
I think you should look up the definition of the words “opinion” and “opined” because you’re seemingly having trouble understanding what they mean.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 16, 2011 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions
your standards seem to be awfully high
I’m not sure what the difference really is between an “informed blogger” and an “opiner”, at least from the way you seem to be considering the two terms. If the biggest strike against him is that he has a day job that doesn’t involve baseball . . .well, that one would go against an awful lot of us, including the creators of some of the best information sources out there.
To speak candidly and use my own personal experience, I myself do not have a day job that involves baseball. That’s not because I have a lack of interest or a lack of talent; baseball is one of my very favorite things in the world, and my analysis and my writing ability both rate favorably to most of what you’ll find out there. I can confirm that last part for you based on both public and private feedback. That being said, I have no pro-side connections of any degree, and I don’t even have the opportunity to write regularly for anybody, anywhere. I’ve been at this for going on 6-7 years now, hours every day. And that’s with being a full-time student and holding down at least one if not more jobs at the same time. So why do I keep at it?
The answer to my question, more than anything else, is simply that I enjoy contributing to the community. Personal ambition is a nice thing and not something I’ve abandoned, but the thing that brings me back is the satisfaction I get from learning from others and helping others learn as well. That in of itself is a perfectly acceptable and even a noble purpose, in my opinion. And I think that’s what you’re missing here – most of us will never have jobs in baseball, nor will we be entitled access to the ivory tower of “inside knowledge”. It doesn’t mean we can’t contribute. For some of us, we take it a step further and recognize that we have our own unique perspectives to share and roles to play. They’re not lesser roles, they’re just different roles, and they are deserving of respect all the same.
I say he’s a ‘struggling musician’ to let outsiders know that he isn’t a scout
As a musician (none struggling variety), I’m speechless. lol
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Takes
care of my post? It’s not at all different from yours.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 16, 2011 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Rumor has it he got a $5m bonus
If so, really nice job by the Pirates.
by Outshined_One on Aug 16, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
wow
Never suspected this one in a million years….
signed for 5 MM…….. thought it’d take 7….lol
5 M looks pretty good to any 18 yr old. Or anybody really….
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 16, 2011 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I said
4.25 mil the day he was drafted. I feel like I was pretty close. That was before price demands etc.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 16, 2011 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Very surprised this got done
Very nice signing by the Pirates.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Lindor is the next Tim Beckham
He won’t hit
Tim Beckham is not hitting that bad this year
not #1 pick type of stuff, but still pretty good.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Aug 16, 2011 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Debatable
I mean I guess he’s hit well enough for a minor league SS, but for the past 3 years how he’s basically been sitting ~4% above his league average which (almost as good as Tyler Pastornicky)…his future in the majors is still almost entirely dependent on his ability to stick at SS
Oh, Bravesin07
Always with the oracular pronouncements.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Padres got 3/4
Hedges, Kelly, and Ross. Couldn’t agree to terms with Brett Austin
don't panic. stay cool. dream big.
Sorry
Posted at same time as you. :p
Good return for the Pads. If I were to have 3 of the 4 those would be my choices.
by polyrhythm07 on Aug 16, 2011 12:09 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I actually wanted Brett Austin
over Hedges, but all in all i’m happy with it
don't panic. stay cool. dream big.
by thepadfather on Aug 16, 2011 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Padres sign
A. Hedges – $3 million
M. Kelly – TBD
No word yet on either Ross or Austin.
by polyrhythm07 on Aug 16, 2011 12:08 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
NICE
/Penn State fan’d
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Aug 16, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
did he really get more than Cole?
Still a bit surprised that the numbers seem to suggest he did. Cole’s been listed at 8 mil. surprised if he indeed got more than cole.
I think its just how the deals are structured
Hultzen’s 8.5 MM gets spread over 5 years on a major league deal, while I’m assuming Cole is getting almost all of his 8 MM of his money upfront on his minor league deal
This makes sense
I agree with Jeff that Cole may take longer to develop, and Hultzen is a safer bet for a major league deal. SEA fans can start spanking in earnest now.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I really like that Pittsburgh got Cole on a minor league deal
Now there’s no promotion pressure. They can methodically work on his command (as they’re wont to do with their projectable HSers).
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Yep
I think he’s clearly ahead of Taillon in most regards, but he does need some similar work and there’s no need for additional pressure in the form of a time frame.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Brewers get Jed Bradley
No work on Jungmann yet that I can find
Redbird Dugout
http://www.redbirddugout.com
Cole Signs
As per Heyman on Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/SI_JonHeyman/status/103316563813347328
Neal Huntington just shat on conventional wisdom.....
Give this man his props, fellas. All of the ‘experts’ said it couldn’t be done.
Welcome, J.Bell – hopefully you are better than the last J. Bell (who was decent)…..
I love the BUCS….
by BuccoFanInTheDesert on Aug 16, 2011 12:13 AM EDT reply actions
I don't think this is a "conventional wisdom" thing, so much as Bud Selig making it more difficult for other teams.
The “slot capping” that Bud has been trying to enforce on teams for years is forcing a lot of teams to consider who they draft carefully while other teams are flipping him the bird, not following the “rules” and taking all these “signability picks” for themselves.
Bell fell that far for that very reason. The Pirates are simply doing what the Yankees, Red Sox, and Tigers have been doing for years.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Aug 16, 2011 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Cron to TCU?
@ProspectInsider
Jason A. Churchill
Latest on Cron: “He wants to go to TCU, I guess.”
Astros sign
Armstrong as well as Springer.
by auclairkeithbc on Aug 16, 2011 12:14 AM EDT reply actions
Really good to get Armstrong
Didn’t think it was going to happen. Love his potential
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
BoSox
Got Swihart ($2.5M) and Owens ($1.55M) but missed on Golston
Redbird Dugout
http://www.redbirddugout.com
Damn
they signed him for less than most people thought he would.He signed less than some HS pitchers taken after him too.
No matter how much they are hyped, my teams always find a way to disappoint.
by thedudeofdudes on Aug 16, 2011 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Interesting
Seems like exactly the figure that was floated at draft time.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I heard he was going to get around $1.7M
Nice to see the Rockies get him below slot then.
Alanna Rizzo is my dream girl.
by Cargo's Ball Sack5 on Aug 16, 2011 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Nats
Also got Rendon – MLB deal $6M bonus and $7.2M guaranteed with 4 yr plus option
Redbird Dugout
http://www.redbirddugout.com
Jays
Daniel Norris signs for $2M – Man I really wanted my Cards to snag him!
Redbird Dugout
http://www.redbirddugout.com
Archie Bradley
got $5M on a two-sport deal.
I survived the 2004 & 2010 seasons.
Goldschmidt is AWESOME
Not sure why that's surprising
Lee was legit big time football prospect (#9 pro-style QB according to Rivals) with a ton more leverage than Bradley (#25 pro-style QB)
Don't really know anything about football
but I assumed Archie would net more because he’s the better baseball prospect and was an unprotected pick.
by CaptainCanuck on Aug 16, 2011 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Leverage plays a huge role in what draft picks get
And Lee had about as much leverage as any recent HS pick. And while Bradley is probably the better prospect than Lee was at this time last year, the difference isn’t that big.
Cave signing could look really smart
in a couple of years. He was the consensus star of the Coastal Plains League, mostly college comp, and I got a Cowart vibe in my limited looks.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I have to think
that the Coastal Plains League performance swayed him as much as it did the Yanks. I’m assuming based on this summer that he’ll be developed as a hitter, but like Cowart, he’s so athletic that he actually looks good pitching, throwing low-90s from the left side with a surprisingly good changeup. By all accounts he’s just a sick athlete.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
$825K is kind of cheap given his summer though
He could have really exploded his stock at LSU.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
I agree that it was cheap
Must be the Yankee Mystique™ discount. I fully expected him to be part of an intriguing LSU team this year, maybe even replacing Mahtook in CF as a freshman.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Daniel Camarena for $335,000
Also signed Rookie Davis earlier for $550,000.
by cookiedabookie on Aug 16, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Rangers
Derek Fischer DID NOT SIGN – Going to be a Virginia man
Redbird Dugout
http://www.redbirddugout.com
Derek Fisher the PA kid?
No surprise, I guess. Probably wasn’t going to get paid what he wanted after his up and down spring, and that UVA commit is tough as has been discussed all year.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Disappointed.
Being originally from Pittsburgh and now living in Texas, I was bummed that Fisher didn’t sign with the Rangers. I hope he doesn’t regret it. Maybe the Pirates will get him down the road in another draft…
by rblythepittsteel on Aug 16, 2011 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Was Beede only first rounder not to sign?
BTW,
BHallESPN Brendan Hall
Jays final offer at 11:55 pm was $2.5 million. Beede didn’t budge from his $3.5 asking price.
by TwoEyesForAnEye on Aug 16, 2011 12:42 AM EDT reply actions
Who was the douchebag that was saying AA had a deal already worked out?
Obviously untrue and REALLY irresponsible journalism.
by BryceHarper on Aug 16, 2011 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions
According to this link, it seems the culprit was Kevin Goldstein from Baseball Prospectus.
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
those were serious allegations.
What, when he accused him of murder? Or was it the allegations of child slavery? lol
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't like your tone.
Respect the fact that those were some serious alligators.
That's some cold-blooded shi...
Goldstein has already been dragged from his home and horsewhipped for this, right? He’s not going to learn his lesson otherwise.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally I like this stance by AA
The 1st round pick is protected so it’s easier to lose that sign and use the money on Norris and Comer and get a pick back next year. Beede would have been nice to have but he’s not the type of talent to go over for and affect your other signings drastically.
Did any team spend as much as the Jays beyond the first round?
Nats spent 17M on top 6
Cubs and Pirates also spent significant $$ in later rounds. Dunston and Maples were 3.75M in rounds 11 and 14; Urban got significantly more money for the 41st rd.
by philadelphiacub on Aug 16, 2011 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
This is a pretty big mistake on Beede's part
The vast majority of kids that do not sign 7 figure offers end up regretting it in the end.
Corbin will get the most out of Beede
I would not bet against him being a 1st rounder in 2014.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Sure. But after you factor in risk (Regression/Injury/Hardslotting) and lost wages it seems like he’d have to think that he’ll be a top 5ish pick in 2014 in order to get his reported price (3.5M).
Seems like a bit of a longshot to me.
I didn't say I would do the same thing
If he’s a first rounder in 2014, I doubt he’ll regret his decision.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Riley Moore
Any word whether the Phillies signed him?
ive been searching as well, cant find anything on him.
might not find out til september or so
Adoptive father of 18th round draft pick and future ace, BRANDON ALLEN
by Nnamdi Asomugha on Aug 16, 2011 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions
wait, so
Both Matt Purke AND Josh Bell signed?
I hope we’ve successfully deflated the notion of the “unsignable” player now, despite Baseball America’s best efforts. HYPE!
not mentioned elsewhere here, so Brian Goodwin info
Goodwin signs with Washington, $3 million signing bonus.
Josh Bell gets signed by Pirates for 5 MM
WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 16, 2011 1:19 AM EDT reply actions
Shawon Dunsten JR got a large sum of cash too
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 16, 2011 1:24 AM EDT reply actions
check out dillon maples lol
surprised the cubs got baez, gretzky, dunston, and maples signed.
Adoptive father of 18th round draft pick and future ace, BRANDON ALLEN
by Nnamdi Asomugha on Aug 16, 2011 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Nats
with the best draft class? Followed by…?
Pirates, Jays still in there?
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 16, 2011 2:27 AM EDT reply actions
True
Knew I was forgetting someone. Padres had a nice class. So did the Cubs.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 16, 2011 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Diamondbacks
as well. Plus I liked the O’s draft.. I should think this through before posting.. oh well.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 16, 2011 3:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Red Sox
A big market team spending on the draft… Scary.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 16, 2011 3:41 AM EDT up reply actions
So the Rays ripped off Garvin, Guerrieri, and Mahtook pirce-wise.
I can’t wait to here trolls find something to complain abou that. I am mad that they did not sign anyone from rounds 12-16.
I’m really really suprised that Bell signed, and for only 5 million. I wonder if he just accepted when he saw 5 million being offered to him and couldn’t resist, or if his pricetag was just overblown.
both, probably
Bell is not an 8M type talent (in the draft market). And any high schooler walking away from 5M needs a reality check, if he really intends to be in baseball after 3 years of college. Any number of things can go wrong in 3 years, and while things may click for him in a big way, you need only to look at Rendon to see how it can go downhill quick.
He made the right decision, I think.
by BurgherKing on Aug 16, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
you need only to look at Rendon to see how it can go downhill quick.
Yes, getting drafting 6th and landing a major league deal paying him 7.2MM clearly hasn’t worked out for Rendon at all.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
hehe yeah
but the other side of it is that coming into 2011, he was a consensus #1 and would have commanded 10M +
He lost 3M in 6 months.
by BurgherKing on Aug 16, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
He lost 3M in 6 months.
Right, and still made more than Bell. And how much was Rendon offered out of HS?
No matter how you slice it, probably not the best example as cautionary tales go.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I think
his point is your can lose alot of money fast, and he probably couldn’t have gained much more than the 5 million getting drafted later.
I predicted he would sign for $4.25 mil the day he was drafted (so before all the asking prices). $5 mil doesn’t surprise me.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 16, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah agreed
just not a very good example overall. I was thinking about the diff between Jan 2011 and Aug 2011, and it made sense in my head.
by BurgherKing on Aug 16, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
The draft is littered with the bodies
of guys who thought they could improve their stock, so your larger point is absolutely valid. I just find Rendon interesting because he went from a 27th round Braves draftee out of HS to the potential 1-1 pick. No matter how much he “lost”, he’d gained far more. It’s absolutely debatable how much more Bell could make if he went to school and came out a Top 5 pick in three years. Probably not worth the difference and lost development time.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
The interesting thing is how quickly he established himself as elite
Within a month of his Freshman season, everyone knew Rendon was special.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Right?
I don’t know what happened between the Braves workout and the following spring, but it’s as big a breakout in its way as Strasburg’s velo gain.
by blackoutyears on Aug 17, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not questioning his decision. IMO, anyone drafted in the first round and given a reaosnable offer should sign.
I’m just not sure what the heck happened.
my theory
is that he may have had a pre draft deal for big money with a team like the Tigers, and the letter was a ploy to both get teams to pass on him, and increase his value if someone called the bluff. (Just speculating, of course)
Astros fan here - just wanted to get others opinions (not homers like on CFB)
How do yall think they did? Other than Springer its hard to cite anyone (maybe Armstrong I guess…) I think they identify slot/low floor/mediocre players and sign them quick to get them in the system and they’ve been doing it for 4 years.
Anyone in our later rounds that you guys like?
Btw, wish we killed it like the Pirates, Nats, Red Sox, O’s, Cubs. Way to go, Thats the way to build a team.
by YohannDookeyblue on Aug 16, 2011 12:28 PM EDT reply actions
Armstrong has quite a bit of potential (but big time risk)
You basically have their draft cornered, not too much to get excited about in the later rounds.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
I gave
a very rough grade for all the teams in baseball and I gave the Astros a C+. To compare I gave the Mets, Cincy, and Texas a C+ as well.
Cleveland, Seattle, St. Louis, and Milwaukee got a B- grade.
Oakland, San Francisco, Colorado, Florida, and Minnesota all got a C.
You pretty much nailed it with
I think they identify slot/low floor/mediocre players and sign them quick to get them in the system and they’ve been doing it for 4 years.but I’m personally a big fan of Springer and I like Armstrong. I’d say it’s a middle of the pack draft class.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 16, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Grades?
There will probably be a thread at some point, but what grades did you get?
My top drafts were (in no order):
WAS
ARI
PIT
Followed by (again in no order):
BOS
TB
TOR
MIL
BAL
SEA
KC
by abbreviatedman on Aug 16, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh
my grades.. Again I’m no expert. I tried to not be a Pirates homer, and I’d certainly put Washington over them, but I like Cole so they come in at #2 for me.
Arizona – A-
Atlanta – C-
Balitmore – B+
Boston – A-
Chicago (Cubs) – B+
Chicago (White Sox) – D
Cincinnati – C+
Cleveland – B-
Colorado – C
Detroit – D+
Florida – C
Houston – C+
Kansas City – B
Los Angeles (Angels) – C-
Los Angeles (Dodgers) – D+
Milwaukee – B-
Minnesota – C
New York (Mets) – C+
New York Yankees – C-
Oakland – C
Philadelphia – C-
Pittsburgh – A
San Diego – A-
San Francisco – C
Seattle – B-
St. Louis – B-
Tampa Bay – A-
Texas – C+
Toronto – B+
Washington – A
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 16, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Mostly agree.
I’m not sure why people are into SD’s draft, though. What am I missing?
by abbreviatedman on Aug 16, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
BAL and SEA and KC
should also probably be higher. I mean, I love what a lot of other teams did, and maybe you can quibble with their particular picks, but getting one of the 6 top players automatically gave you a great draft this year, in my view.
by abbreviatedman on Aug 16, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting
points. I dunno. I’m not an expert enough to try and really back up my points. It’s more of some basic research, a decent feel for the draft, and my personal likes and dislikes on how I arrived at this grade.
FWIW, I purposely didn’t give out A+’s, but in retrospect maybe SD should have been a B+. I like my placement of the other 3 teams you mentioned, although KC might be a B/B+ type draft.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 16, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
For the Pirates, it all depends on whether you like Cole.
As a Ray’s fan, I would give them a B+.
I just can’t get over how well the Nats did in the draft. If they only didn’t make stupid signing like Werth…..
Maybe
smart drafts help offset the stupid FA signings. lol
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Anybody that gives the Giants a C grade hasn’t paid close attention to who they drafted and who they were able to sign. Yes, the Panik pick was a reach, but not a bust – he was rated #67 overall by BA and has been tearing it up in his first 60 days in the Northwest League. After Panik, they drafted and signed:
Crick, Susac, Oropesa, Bandilla, Marlowe and Osich, who BA had ranked at #47, 30, 57, 117, 99 and 41 overall, respectively. The Osich pick was an especially big steal in the 6th round as his ceiling is a #2-#3 starter if he can stay healthy.
That means they signed 7 of BA’s top 117 ranked players, 6 of the top 99, and 3 of the top 47. Not bad considering that they were picking near the end of every round and that they only had 4 of the first 146 picks, and 3 of the first 116 picks.
After the 6th round, they were able to sign 4 high-upside high school kids (Jean Delgado, Christian Diaz, Clayton Blackburn and Drew Stiner), 4 JuCo freshmen (Adam Paulencu, Jonathan Jones, Demondre Arnold and Travious Relaford) and 3 college sophomores (Derek Law, Kentrell Hill and Joe Biagini ). They also snagged well-ranked and solid college prospects like Ray Black, Kelby Tomlinson, Garrett Buechele and Tyler Mizenko.
All told, the Giants signed 27 of their first 30 picks and 38 of their 51 total picks. While nowhere near the top of the list of successful drafts, the Giants are certainly not in the bottom 13 drafts (where you have them ranked). They got a ton of power-armed pitchers and a nice collection of athletic and toolsy teenagers to go with a handful of polished and advanced college position players. I’d give them no worse than a solid B and put them right around the 10th best draft class.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Thanks
for the info. It’s hard to keep track of all the late round upside guys for every team, so it was alot of eyeballing, especially based off of bonuses, not all of which were available.
That seems like a very solid draft for a team that drafts well so a B or maybe even a B+ seems right to me with that info. Thanks.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 17, 2011 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it’s almost impossible to get info on any team’s draftees past about the 5th round, unless they get signed for a outsized bonus. If you didn’t actively follow the Giants draft and signing progress you would mostly just remember that they over-reached on the Panik pick in the first round, but did luck out and get Susac and Osich in later rounds.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
I'm really glad you guys inked Susac, Fla-Giant
He, Osich and Panik are all guys I think will offer very solid major league production in the end.
by blackoutyears on Aug 17, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Keep the name Clayton Blackburn in your memory banks. He was understandably overshadowed by Bundy, Bradley and Fulmer in the Oklahoma HS ptiching ranks this spring, but he’s had a fantastic first 6 weeks of his pro career in the AZ Rookie League:
1 ER, 22 K, 3 BB (1 IBB), 13 H, .163 BAA, 4.63 GO/AO through 10 games and 22.2 innings
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=607185
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Nice. Duly noted
I saw him on state follow lists, but that’s about it.
by blackoutyears on Aug 17, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you are underrating the Mets draft
Nimmo has absolutely torn up the HS showcases this summer. The Mets are limiting the pitch counts of their early round pitchers but Cory Mazzoni is already pitching in the Florida State League and is holding his own in a couple of relief appearances. Jack Leathersich has recorded something like 16 out of 21 outs via the strikeout for Brooklyn. Matthew Budgell had a bad outing against in the GCL Nationals but in his previous 4 appearances (9 IP) he allowed 4 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 7 K. Not a bad start for an 18 year old fresh out of High School. Not to mention recent signees Brad Marquez, Logan Verrett, and Phil Evans have not played yet
Nimmo on HS showcase circuit
This summer or last summer? If you mean this summer, well shouldn’t he when he has a year on everyone?
Nimmo
Doubt he’s been in many HS showcases. Sometimes you see currenrt year draftees at an event, but it’s pretty rare. Doesn’t he play American legion ball or something.
And let’s not get too stoked about NYPL and complex league performance. That’s no sound basis for gauging a draft. But then, any immediate letter grade is generally based more on opinions of the talent drafted than any likely outcome, so the exercise is academic. That’s why Jeff highlighted four drafts he particularly liked and no more. Anything after that provides diminishing returns. We won’t know the yield of most of these drafts for several years.
by blackoutyears on Aug 17, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Nimmo’s going to be a good one, but he’s not playing in any showcases this summer. No drafted player is eligible to play in summer showcase games. He did play for the Cheyenne American Legion team this summer and tore it up:
AB=178, AVG=.551, 2B=23, 3B=16, HR=14, RBI=99, BB=70, K=13, SB=33-40
That being said, the level of competitin he played against was quite low. They just don’t have many good players up in the upper plains.
BTW, I like Mazzoni a lot, too. He was one of my top sleeper picks, and I was surprised to see him go to the Mets so quickly.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
You don't see current year draftees at showcases,
but there are some events where they surface (some of ther travel teams tournaments allow them to play maybe?) , so that can be confusing to some folks I suppose. In Nimmo’s case it’s decidedly not the case.
Was just talking to a guy who said that it was a good thing for Mazzoni that he got out of NC State before they Brackmaned his arm. lol
by blackoutyears on Aug 17, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm learning towards writing a (fairly exhaustive) article about it
Washington did have a good looking draft, but wow they did spend for it.
It’s really interesting to see how badly the “expert sources” misjudged signability concerns this year. Some of the things they were throwing out there (Bell only willing to sign for an extraordinary amount of money, $6 million possibly not being enough to get Purke, etc.) ended up being completely out in left field. Not exactly a glowing endorsement of their work, and it makes you wonder what else they’re fed that they regurgitate as fact . . .
Then
you have guys like Matt Dean inking for 6 figures (albeit high 6 figures) when he looked like a tough sign.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 16, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, that one definitely threw me (and a lot of other people) for a loop
Perhaps he ended up being much cheaper than originally anticipated because he liked the organization and the organization’s plan for his development, but I was expecting a Dean signing to come in more to the tune of around double of what he actually got. Maybe he just got the itch to turn pro.
That’s a very nice piece of scouting work, and eases some of the sting of losing Beede.
Washington's draft
it ll be interesting to track Rendon and Purke because they both have significant injury concerns that caused them to fall. Washington paid a lot of money and gave ML deals to those guys in spite of it.
This is totally my takeaway
Potentially high reward but not without a great deal of risk tied to dollars invested. Adds even more fuel to the debates around Rendon/Purke medicals and whether or not they’re truly alarming or WAS is simply more risk tolerant.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
This x 1,000
They’re essentially paying the same amount for three big-league years of both Purke and Rendon (and the right to three additional cost-controlled, peak-age seasons of each) as they are for one year of Adam LaRoche.
“HUGE” spending in the dramatically helps to mitigate the need for throw-away “market rate” spending for aging, injured so-so free agents.
And if either Rendon or Purke bombs half as badly as LaRoche does, they still don’t carry the same opportunity costs of big league roster space…
by realitypolice on Aug 17, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
This is why these are good gambles.
by blackoutyears on Aug 17, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't want to put grades on anything this early
But my top 4 (not ordered):
Toronto
Pittsburgh
Washington
Boston
After that, I think there’s a gap.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
What
about Arizona? Still below that gap?
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 16, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I like both
But I don’t think either are in that top tier.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
I'd rather have
Trevor Bauer and Archie Bradley than the first four Boston drafted. Quality over quantity, and I think those two are better than any of Boston’s draftees.
Still have Boston very high, but I can’t see putting them over ARI.
by abbreviatedman on Aug 16, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
That came off
a bit arrogant. Of course I can SEE putting them over ARI. I just wouldn’t put them there myself.
by abbreviatedman on Aug 16, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
You may be right in the end
That’s why I don’t like the idea of grading drafts this early in the process. I like what Boston did quite a bit.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
I love the AZ pitching quartet,
but I’m partial to the breadth of Boston’s haul. As usual, reading Jeff’s draft impressions gives me a sensation of deja vu.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
This is exactly why I capped it at 4
Those 4 stood out to me; after that there are a number of teams that did a very good job but aren’t quite on the same level for me.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
I think they did pretty well early on, less so late
Springer and Armstrong are upside guys with considerable risk. Houser is a very intriguing arm with a lot of the traits that the Astros seem to like in their young arms.
I would have liked to have seen a little more diversification, but to the team’s credit, they didn’t go cheap with their top picks this year. Baby steps.
Good
point on the early draft picks. Springer >>>> DeShields Jr.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 16, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh absolutely. I love the Springer pick.
I dont know what Heck was on to be so high on Deshields. Like you said Baby steps.
by YohannDookeyblue on Aug 16, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
could have been worse
like josh sale.
by auclairkeithbc on Aug 16, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
deshields
He’s just a raw kid. Definitely some talent there, not top 10 overall talent, but he’s still an asset.
I do think it’s a little odd to use a pick on a player drafted that highly based in large part off his athleticism, only to then groom him as a second baseman.
He's
not a bad prospect, it was just a head-scratcher at the time.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 16, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
updated the entire list
sorry i was out last night. but it’s done.
R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
http://twitter.com/doublestix
by doublestix on Aug 16, 2011 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Yes
gj
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 16, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice job.
Looking at that chart really shows what a deal Arizona got on Bauer, eh?
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
ARE YOU F#$%ING KIDDING ME!!!! ADAMS!!! JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST YOU HAD 24 SQUARE FEET AND YOU MISSED IT ALL!! - OlenWhitaker
Certified Grabbo Lover, though only by accident.
I love lots of guys. - leaflover4ever
He doesn't fit in ceiling wise with those $5M+ bonuses
So I think that was a fair price for him.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Huh?
In terms of ceiling, Bauer can become a number one starter at the ML level and probably has the highest floor of all these arms.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
I don't agree
I see him as a good mid rotation guy, and I think he’s already there.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
I don't think you'll find too many
Who give him only a middle rotation ceiling. Most reports I’ve seen give him top the rotation potential, which makes sense given that he has two plus fastballs (4S and 2S) with solid command of them, a plus, swing and miss curve, and a solid change. Combine that with his excellent intangibles, mound presence, and statistical performance. Take all of the above into account, and saying he can only become a mid rotation guy places your opinion as an extreme outlier IMO.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
It’s implied that we’re talking about ceiling here. One said he had a TOR ceiling, and Jeff replied that he disagreed and thought he was a mid-rotation guy.
No one in their right mind expects a kid to come into the majors as an immediate TOR, and having a decent shot at a TOR ceiling is what would decide whether Bauer’s draft slot and price tag are merely ok or great.
To say that Bauer could be a good mid rotation guy presently isn’t controversial at all. The controversy is in what we can project.
I'm OK with being an outlier
Although, I don’t think I’m an extreme outlier. Take a look at Jason Parks’s scouting report from earlier in the year if you believe I’m the only one that thinks that on Bauer.
First, I don’t think you should denigrate good mid rotation arms. They’re very valuable and not as easy to come by as usually assumed. I don’t think Bauer is going to get much better than what he is right now. In my looks, I saw a guy with good stuff, mediocre command, and excellent pitchability. I’m not concerned with the pitch counts, and I do think he’ll be able to eat up a ton of innings. I just wouldn’t project him as a potential front of the rotation arm like I would with those that got $5M+ bonuses.
He may exceed my expectations, of course.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Why can’t we project an improvement in command? In most cases it happens with experience. With average command we should be looking at a #2 at least.
I'm always hesitant to project command
Especially when the delivery is on the complicated side. Smooth, easily repeatable deliveries are one thing, but that’s not what we’re dealing with.
He needs more than average command to be a #2.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Are you saying he only has 1 plus pitch?
“#1 Starter: Two plus pitches, average third pitch, plus-plus command, plus makeup
- Starter: Two plus pitches, average third pitch, average command, average makeup
- Starter: One plus pitch, two average pitches, average command, average makeup"
Should say:
1 Starter: Two plus pitches, average third pitch, plus-plus command, plus makeup
2 Starter: Two plus pitches, average third pitch, average command, average makeup
3 Starter: One plus pitch, two average pitches, average command, average makeup
I think your definitions are too lenient
Let’s take Ricky Romero as an example:
Two off-speed pitches that are plus-plus, an above-average to plus fastball, average command/control (shows better at times). What would you label him? I’d call him a #2 with ace potential if he can ever get a bit more consistency.
I see Bauer as having:
- Above-average to plus fastball
- Plus curve
- Average to tick above change
- Average command
- Plus-plus pitchability
- Durability
Good MLB pitcher who lacks the command to be a TOR arm.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Those definitions came from baseballexaminer.com’s scouting FAQ. I couldn’t find BA’s version quickly, but I’ve seen very similar definitions there. I’m not a scout by any means, but I’ve seen multiple experts citing this as the scouting community’s consensus, so I’ll take it above your word. That doesn’t mean that ace production and ace stuff always go 100% hand-in-hand, but it’s a useful approximation.
Funny you use Romero as your example when I own both him and Bauer in my dynasty league. I’d call Romero’s production this year a very good #2, borderline #1 with the potential to get better.
I'm a huge Romero fan
One of the few MLB players I go out of my way to watch.
Perhaps that is how BA describes them, but I think that’s underselling the average ace, #2, and #3 MLB starter.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
I don't see the dispute here
Both of rlwhite’s #1 starter definitions stipulate plus-plus command, which many observers, including Jeff, do not feel Bauer has.
by blackoutyears on Aug 17, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not saying a mid-rotation arm isn't valuable
And I agree with you that he’s already there. I just don’t agree that he tops out only at that level on the basis of… well, everything I said above.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
We're allowed to disagree
We’ll see if he has much room for growth.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Yep
He will be in the majors soon, so we don’t have to wait long to start getting a lot more looks at him.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Exactly,
and obviously everyone is an outlier sometime. You with Hultzen’s mechanics just this week for instance. I don’t think your reservations are way out there, and neither are Jeff’s.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Players like Bauer,
who are so different, are bound to engender divergent opinions. So much remains to be seen about how he handles struggles, or even failure, in addition to any questions regarding, stuff, approach or physical questions. It is cool that we should be getting a look at him at the highest level far sooner than normal.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
sort of
Bauer clearly wasn’t going to go back to school. If he waited until yesterday to sign, he maybe gets into a couple of games and then gets to go to the AFL, starting next year in Visalia or Mobile. Signing early let him move past Visalia and the overall polish on his game looks to be beyond AA, as well. That means he’s putting himself into position to start 2012 in AAA with an eye towards cracking the major league rotation by next July or even a chance of breaking camp with the major league team next spring.
In other words, all things considered, it would have been silly for him to delay his development or (maybe more to the actual point) to give Arizona a reason to delay his movement towards the majors over extra bonus money.
Plus
He could make more money long term if he makes the majors more quickly, and gets through his Arb years more quickly than those who just signed.
by cookiedabookie on Aug 16, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
This
For guys like Hultzen, Bauer, Ackley, and Rendon it makes sense to get your money but not be too greedy. These are the players whose advisors know that the real money is in the majors, and the sooner the players get signed and playing the better.
by blackoutyears on Aug 16, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
anyone wanna grade the Royals draft?
as a royals fan im seeing somewhere around a B+ or so…possibly an A-
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Aug 16, 2011 9:44 PM EDT reply actions
I just
gave them a B, but I’m not a huge fan of Starling, so a B+ is definitely plausible. I don’t think they did enough to be even considered as an A- for me, but I only gave out 6 A’s, four of the minus variety and 2 of the straight A variety.
Good draft to add a very nice farm system though. The Royals future is looking bright. I think the Nationals, Pirates, and Royals are close to turning around their recent (or more prolonged) woes, with the Royals and Nationals being ahead in that regard.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 17, 2011 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions
it really helps the nats
that they happened to be the worst team in baseball when the top 2 draft prospects of the past 20 or so years were the #1 picks…gotta respect what the pirates are doing…is the bell signing going to do anything to appease the fanbase? are they still having credibility problems with the fans?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Aug 17, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I think
even with the recent slide, just by being in first in late July did alot to appease the fans. They realize it’s going in the right direction, and Root sports in Pittsburgh does a good job of showcasing prospects and the draft, so I think the average fan has a sense the organization is spending.
The PR people still have a way to go, but the situation looks almost unbelievably better (as far as PR) when compared to about 370 days ago. I mean in the last 370 days, we’ve went from the worst team in baseball to a quasi-legitimate playoff contender for a time and we added (just naming big time prospects).
Cole
Taillon
Bell
Allie
Heredia
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 17, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
The system is moving in the right direction
But the first half of this season was a mirage, and the top prospects are far away. Expect a few more very rocky seasons ahead.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Oh
definitely. People were getting really excited about the Pirates as I sat around quietly waiting bitter-sweetly for them to collapse.
Jeff Karstens wasn’t gonna lead the NL in ERA for very long. I honestly have never seen an entire pitching staff get so lucky for so long. McDonald had a mid 4 ERA which was about neutral luckwise, and Morton’s FIP was close to his ERA, but Karstens, Correia, and Maholm were getting insanely lucky.
I honestly would rather see them lose than win right now for the draft. The absolute earliest I thing they will be real contenders is 2014, but I think Neal Huntington has it set up that they could be in it for a while, with plenty of minor league depth.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 18, 2011 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Sounds about right
They have certainly loaded up on talent. We’ll see if they can develop them into major league products.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
I like it quite a bit
It’s in that next set of teams with Tampa, Arizona, Chicago, and perhaps a couple others.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Bubba Starling
what is the plan for him? Can’t wait to see how he hit against pro pitching.
nothing until instructs...
and id imagine they’re planning on him going to low a next april unless in the fall is a disaster
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Aug 17, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Doesn't have to be a disaster
The hit tool needs a lot of work so I could definitely see a short season assignment.
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
i'd imagine most in the fanbase would be very disappointed if he's not playing in april...
although, lets hope the royals are smarter than to make decisions like that based on what the fans think/want
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Aug 17, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
He's a bit of a project
Fantastic upside, but it may take him some time to reach it. A MWL assignment to start the year would be pretty aggressive… perhaps a Cheslor Cuthbert route where he’s in extended for about a month?
Bullpen Banter
MLB Bonus Baby
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
