BA Midseason Top 50
by Galt on Jul 7, 2011 4:34 PM EDT
Email
PrintI'm surprised that this hasn't been posted yet.
I was hoping to see some debate on specific people not included or whatever.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2011/07/midseason-top-50-prospects-list/
And here they are:
1 Bryce Harper, of, Nationals
2 Mike Trout, of, Angels
3 Matt Moore, lhp, Rays
4 Julio Teheran, rhp, Braves
5 Manny Machado, ss, Orioles
6 Martin Perez, lhp, Rangers
7 Shelby Miller, rhp, Cardinals
8 Jesus Montero, c, Yankees
9 Jameson Taillon, rhp, Pirates
10 Brett Lawrie, 3b, Blue Jays
11 Jacob Turner, rhp, Tigers
12 Jurickson Profar, ss, Rangers
13 Manny Banuelos, lhp, Yankees
14 Drew Pomeranz, lhp, Indians
15 Devin Mesoraco, c, Reds
16 Arodys Vizcaino, rhp, Braves
17 Wil Myers, of, Royals
18 Carlos Martinez, rhp, Cardinals
19 Tyler Skaggs, lhp, Diamondbacks
20 Desmond Jennings, of, Rays
21 Dee Gordon, ss, Dodgers
22 Hak-Ju Lee, ss, Rays
23 Jake Odorizzi, rhp, Royals
24 Aaron Hicks, of, Twins
25 Leonys Martin, of, Rangers
26 Dellin Betances, rhp, Yankees
27 Mike Montgomery, lhp, Royals
28 Wilin Rosario, c, Rockies
29 Travis d'Arnaud, c, Blue Jays
30 Matt Harvey, rhp, Mets
31 Jason Kipnis, 2b, Indians
32 Brett Jackson, of, Cubs
33 Gary Brown, of, Giants
34 Robbie Erlin, lhp, Rangers
35 Zack Wheeler, rhp, Giants
36 Kyle Gibson, rhp, Twins
37 Anthony Ranaudo, rhp, Red Sox
38 Taijuan Walker, rhp, Mariners
39 Zach Lee, rhp, Dodgers
40 Jarrod Parker, rhp, Diamondbacks
41 Jonathan Singleton, of/1b, Phillies
42 Brad Peacock, rhp, Nationals
43 Jarred Cosart, rhp, Phillies
44 Randall Delgado, rhp, Braves
45 Anthony Gose, cf, Blue Jays
46 Nolan Arenado, 3b, Rockies
47 Allen Webster, rhp, Dodgers
48 Matt Szczur, of, Cubs
49 Jedd Gyorko, 3b, Padres
50 Paul Goldschmidt, 1b, Diamondbacks
271 comments
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Comments
wow They are higher on Gose than even I would have thought
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jul 8, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
You don't have to look too far back
2009
Feliz
Holland
Smoak
Andrus
Perez
by brok515 on Jul 7, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
shitty closer, possible bust, loogy, and time will tell.
by rglass44 on Jul 7, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
-10
"I don't give a flying f**k who you think I look like"
Rec'd for funniest comment ever
…they should send down Huntington & Nutting, because they aren’t ready, either. - royshowell
by Marinerfanjake on Jul 7, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Though I believe he is being facetious
Let’s be honest, Holland was pitching against a AA hitting ball club. Good for him though.
This has to be a joke, right?
I’ve never been bullish on Justin Smoak going back to his draft year but he’s far from a bust. Derek Holland a ‘loogy’? Good grief.
not too many surprises here
Looking forward to seeing No. 23 this evening.
Re:
Brad Peacock is a bit of a surprise to me. His numbers have been good; scouting reports on the secondary stuff have been mixed; but if you had told me before the season he’d be above Randall Delgado (or near the top 40), I would have said “Who?”
Goldschmidt
I think he deserved to be ranked much higher.
by John Black on Jul 7, 2011 4:57 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Agreed
And I am disgusted that Hicks is still considered top 25. The guy gets by solely on reputation.
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Jul 7, 2011 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Tools aren't shit unless you learn how to use 'em.
…they should send down Huntington & Nutting, because they aren’t ready, either. - royshowell
by Marinerfanjake on Jul 7, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Jul 7, 2011 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Bullshit
He is producing quite well in the FSL.
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Is he producing top 25 well?
First off no need for being rude.
Secondly, he is slugging .411. When exactly is he going to show the power we have been hearing about? Does anybody really see this guy as a 30 homer guy anymore, or even a 20 homer guy? He knows how to take a walk but every other part of his offensive game has been rather disappointing. He isn’t even stealing bases at an acceptable rate.
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Jul 7, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Game power and raw power are two different things, especially at Ft. Myers. Check out the slugging numbers for Morneau, Mauer, Kubel, etc. as they came through there. No one slugs over .500 in Ft. Myers. Cuddyer was closest at .470, the others were in Hicksland (and managed to slug considerably better in the Eastern League the next year).
He should get on base, hit for tick-below average to average power, have good speed
That makes for a plus offensive player. He also plays an up-the-middle defensive position very well. Combine those two factors, and he’s a guy worthy of top-25
No it really doesn't make for a plus offensive player, let alone a top 25 one
I am pretty sure that we should expect more out of top 25 players then to have average power, speed that doesn’t translate to steals, and a good on base with a meh average.
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Jul 7, 2011 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe for some fantasy leaguers then it's below average
but if a guy can post a .350 OBP and maybe a .400 SLG, then you’re avg-slightly above average in todays offensive climate
Perhaps
But is slightly above avg worthy of top 25 praise? Personally, I don’t think so. It isn’t like his glove is near Gose’s level.
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Jul 8, 2011 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions
above average bat + plus-glove + centerfield?
I say yes.
Not to mention that his tools are strong enough that if they refine a bit more then he’d be a top-10 talent
LOL
They need to refine more then a bit to be top 10. I like Hicks as a prospect, but I think people are putting the cart before the horse when projecting his future. In all likelihood he will be an average bat with a good glove in CF. That is valuable but this guy looks to be closer to Fukudome than Jim Edmonds.
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Jul 8, 2011 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions
well Jim Edmonds is a borderline HOFer
Seeing as Fukadome is a pretty below average defender, I don’t think that really works as a comp. Hicks may hit somewhat like Fukadome has the past 3 years, slightly above average. If he can do that, the top-25 rating is well justified
I get where you are coming from
I may not agree with it but I do respect your reasoning.
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Jul 8, 2011 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Fukudome a poor defender?
When I watch that guy he catches everything but pneumonia.
by blackoutyears on Jul 8, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
more talking about how DSR/TZ/UZR don't like him in CF
usually, if you’re a good fielder, at least one of the 3 will like you. If all 3 are in the negatives, it’s not a good sign.
CF?
Every time I see him he’s playing RF.
by blackoutyears on Jul 8, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
He was a CF the first two years he was in the league (a bit his 1st year, and primarily in his 2nd)
and a below average one at that. He’s an above average RFer
"He’s an above average RFer"
That’s definitely been my impression.
by blackoutyears on Jul 9, 2011 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Just one point
It’s rude when one guy swears in arguing with your point, but not rude when a guy swears in agreement with your point? There aren’t dramatic differences in tone, as the language is being used at someone in either case (Hicks in the first, you in the second). Really, it just seems like you’re peeved at the guy because he disagreed with you, and found something random and coincidental to be, frankly, condescending about. If you’re going to act like a moderator, do so fairly.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
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by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 8, 2011 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Big difference
One person was describing the player’s tools as shit (not a personal thing). The other person was calling my argument bullshit (a personal statement).
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Jul 8, 2011 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions
So insulting a person
Is better than insulting a statement?
You got me there.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
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by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 8, 2011 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Who did he insult on the message board?
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Jul 8, 2011 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
That's right,
Being rude anonymously is totally okay. Which makes the other guy being “rude” to you… totally okay?
/intarwebz
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 8, 2011 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Also his statement wasn't insulting to anyone
He stated that tools aren’t shit unless you know how to use them. That is a factual statement. Until Hicks turns the tools into results, they are meaningless. If you don’t believe this go give Corey Patterson a call.
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Jul 8, 2011 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
That's talking about someone
And their career profession. Yeah, he put himself in the public sphere by participating in professional sports, but you put yourself in the public sphere by commenting here.
The differences exist, but they aren’t huge.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 8, 2011 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL
If you get personally upset for prospects when people question their tools and even call them shit, I think you are on the wrong site. This is kind of what we do here. If we can’t question a players abilities, then this site would be pretty pointless.
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Jul 8, 2011 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not at all upset about that, as my posts (I believe) point out
I guess that may have seemed like my point after hammering away at it for the last couple comments, but I mainly was trying to hi-light your little moderator duty with the other poster. The point was that neither instance of swearing was rude, not both, and your talking down to the other poster as if it was rude was fairly condescending.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 8, 2011 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions
How was I being a moderator?
Personally, I don’t like when people try to simply dismiss my beliefs by calling them bullshit. I simply said that he didn’t need to be rude. I never bitched to a moderator or said he couldn’t state it. There is a difference then telling someone to stop being a dick and telling them that they aren’t allowed to post.
I do respect your opinion, though I believe it is wrong, on Hicks’ future. I guess we view his production to date very differently and that is okay. Take care and have a good night brother.
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Jul 8, 2011 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Great show
Sure I have no idea what happened, but I sure as hell enjoyed the ride!!!
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Jul 8, 2011 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough
I’m not going to convince you, you’re not going to convince me (I’m a stubborn German), and nobody else in the world is ever really going to care. :-)
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 8, 2011 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions
It wouldn't be a minor league ball fanpost
unless King Billy Royal got sensitive and complained that someone was picking on him.
PPPPPPUNTO 4 MVP 2010
by punto4mvp on Jul 8, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I am surprised that a Twins fan is getting sensitive
I’m not sure who you are but I can assure you that if you don’t like me you are more than welcome to eat da poo poo.
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Jul 8, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
when i said "tools aint shit"
I was speaking for everyone ho gets overhyped about tools that have not translated. Not just Hicks, so calm down.
…they should send down Huntington & Nutting, because they aren’t ready, either. - royshowell
by Marinerfanjake on Jul 8, 2011 2:18 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Also just to throw this out there
I think Hicks is the most overhyped prospect of the last 4 years.
…they should send down Huntington & Nutting, because they aren’t ready, either. - royshowell
by Marinerfanjake on Jul 8, 2011 2:20 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm agreeing that your comment was just fine. :-)
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 8, 2011 3:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Completely disagree
1) Still a bit young for Hi-A at 21 y.o.
2) .392 OBP? Dear goodness, yes please.
3) Doubles could still turn into home runs as he adds strength.
4) The tools play awesomely in center field right now.
5) Particularly when you are simultaneously defending Goldschmidt (three years older, just one level higher, worse positional value, similar K:BB peripheral, equally-unsettling 2010 season albeit for different reasons), I don’t get why Hicks gets bashed.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 8, 2011 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Didn't Goldy lead the minors in homers in 2010?
I wouldn’t call that a disappointing season. Hicks gets bashed because this is the 3rd straight year where he hasn’t turned his tools into results. I admit that he knows how to take a walk but if he doesn’t show more power with the bat pitchers aren’t going to pitch around him in the majors. He has been a terrible baserunner in the minors with a 67% success rate. I would consider putting Hicks around the 50 mark but no way he should be higher than guys like Goldy.
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Jul 8, 2011 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
161 strikeouts
Didn’t say disappointing, said unsettling. I think 161 K’s are definitely unsettling.
As long as Ryan Theriot exists in this world, it can’t be said that it’s impossible for guys without power to take walks. :-)
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 8, 2011 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I hate when people use the exception rather than the rule
It is similar to when people compare command pitchers to Maddux or small 2B’s to Pedroia.
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Jul 8, 2011 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks Gore
At least we can agree on that. I think people believe that I hate Hicks which is not the case. He is a decent prospect but I just feel if he was drafted in the 12th round he would not even be considered for top 25 status.
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Jul 8, 2011 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Is that worse than when people apply the rule to every single case
When exceptions exist? Can’t say that Hicks will immediately stop taking walks once he gets to the big leagues just because his power might be sub-standard. It’s a risk, but 50 walks in just over 300 PA’s is a heck of a total. I doubt that’s only pitchers pitching around him, particularly since his power is apparently so terrible.
But wait, it’s not like Hicks is powerless, his ISO is 140 with ARL on his side at Hi-A. Great? No. Acceptable for a center fielder? I think so.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 8, 2011 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions
except for the fact that ryan theriot can't get a walk.
he has a 5.6% BB rate this year (which puts him in the lowest fifth of qualified position players), and a career rate of 8.1%.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
You've convinced me
I’ve never been a Hicks fan but these are pretty damn good reasons
Brandon Jacobs of Lowell > Brandon Jacobs of NYG
Agreed to the umpteenth power
Why is Jesus Montero afforded so much slack when a better athlete that is more productive with a stronger power tool (& almost unquestionable personal makeup) is so continuously disregarded?
Myers
I think he’s overranked. As a catcher, sure I can see him being very high, but as an OF, he doesn’t seem to have enough power or speed to have star upside.
I think you're underestimating Myers
He’s battled injuries this year (knee, and something else I believe). Myers has excellent hitting skills in my opinion. Future .300/.400/.500 bat.
by John Black on Jul 7, 2011 5:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Re:
I actually might agree with you a touch here. I don’t hate Myers but I’m beginning to wonder if he’s truly a .300 hitter or a guy that’s going to club 30 HR. If he’s a .280 / avg obp / 25HR guy he’s super useful but probably not a star.
if he hits 280 his OBP will be spectacular...
along with what will probably end up being good defense
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 7, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Anthony Gose
Glad he got some love. He’s developing his tools very nicely this year.
by John Black on Jul 7, 2011 4:59 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Was surprised he made the top 50
The K rate is still a little scary, but his tools are starting to actualize.
Garrett Richards belongs on this list.
Big time brain fart by Baseball America.
by John Black on Jul 7, 2011 5:04 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
+1
I like him better than Segura now and EASILY better than at least the last 10 pitchers on this list. Awesome stats especially considering he isn’t anywhere near his ceiling
Mike Trout- The Man, The Future, The Legend
by miketrout on Jul 7, 2011 11:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yeah, I wouldnt go that far
Lance Berkman= Awesome, CJ Wilson= Jack@$$
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by mathisrocks5 on Jul 8, 2011 12:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Top 5 should be
Trout, Segura, Richards, Cowart, and Cron, stupid BA underrating Angels prospects
Brandon Jacobs of Lowell > Brandon Jacobs of NYG
by Lesterfan on Jul 8, 2011 5:17 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Allen Webster and Brad Peacock
I guess its time to start believing!
by John Black on Jul 7, 2011 5:19 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
+1
Ray Guilfoyle
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by Ray Guilfoyle on Jul 9, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Aaron Hicks
Surprised to see him in the Top 25. I hope this was a move down, cuz I’m not sure I’d rank him above some of the guys directly below him.
I definitely thought I'd see Harvey, Kipinis, and BJax over him.
…they should send down Huntington & Nutting, because they aren’t ready, either. - royshowell
by Marinerfanjake on Jul 7, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
I don’t believe he belongs top 25 anymore. Not until he shows more power.
He has a higher slugging percentage than Jonathan Singleton
He is playing in a very difficult offensive environment. Acting like he’s having a bad year is stupid.
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Acting like he's having a bad year?
Just because I don’t think he’s top 25 worthy doesn’t mean I think he’s having a bad year. I think he’s about 15-20 spots too high.
Also nobody here is claiming that Singleton is deserving of his spot
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Jul 7, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Everything I've read on here defending Hicks
has been about how he has all these average skills and is excelling in OBP all while playing CF. Thats real nice and all but shouldn’t top 25 be looking for more than average, no matter the position. Without knowing anything else, he’s already too high.
by Jake Rafferty on Jul 8, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Average skills?
The scouting reports says different. His one average skill may be power. But 21 doubles isn’t bad. You don’t have to hit 25 HR’s to be a great Centerfielder.
I feel Walker should be 5 or so spots higher
But that’s just me.
…they should send down Huntington & Nutting, because they aren’t ready, either. - royshowell
i think that nitpicking with a midseason list (or any list) is foolish
most of these lists are just putting the right names down in generally the right areas
Despite how good he's been, he's still very raw
Still walking guys, and has only one plus-plus pitch at this point (sinking FB). All of his secondary stuff is still (from what I’ve read) below average or average with a lot of potential, with his curve a little further along.
I think, despite the results, he just doesn’t have the polish of most pitchers on this list. Which just speaks to his potential.
Disagree.
The CB has been getting some great reviews and looks like a real plus pitch. I’m sure he’s inconsistent and raw still… but he’s far less inconsistent and raw than expected.
How many guys have more than one plus-plus pitch?
If “only one plus-plus pitch” makes one raw, there aren’t many polished pitchers out there.
Chances are Walker never develops another plus-plus pitch. Chances are also high that he doesn’t need one.
by dnc on Jul 8, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Michael Pineda agrees.
follow @casetines
by Kenneth Arthur on Jul 8, 2011 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
One note of interest
Singleton vs. Goldschmidt. Unless BA thinks Singleton can play a worthwhile LF, they’re saying they believe his bat will be better than Goldschmidt’s. That’s definitely worth examining further, considering the respective lines they’ve put up this year.
Agreed
Singleton over Goldy is a terrible call.
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Jul 7, 2011 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Solid point
Falling in love with a pretty swing without the production to back it up? Sounds awful Lars-y, doesn’t it?
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 8, 2011 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, it makes me think that I might not be giving Singleton enough credit.
Lars is a good comp, sure. Just because he hasn’t panned out though doesn’t mean anything about Singleton. It’s not like BA went out on a big limb for Singleton last year and are following it up this year hoping for a rebound—they must actually believe he’s got tools worth ignoring this sub-par statistical season for. That’s interesting to me, and makes me wonder what the BA writers have to say about it.
I still like Singleton quite a bit
He’s not a top 50 guy for me, but still solidly in the top 75.
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that's a bit surprising coming from you, knowing how much you focus on positional value
I’m fine with ranking first basemen high, but I need to see some separators, and I’m not sure he has those. The field of potential first basemen gets pretty thick at upper levels.
It's where I've had him all season
And it really comes down to a few things:
-I was impressed with the player that I saw last August
-He’s very green for his level
-He’s playing in a difficult run environment
-The Phillies messed with his swing at the beginning of the year
He hasn’t hit for much power this year, but the rest of his performance has been fine. I have a hard time believing he won’t eventually show off that power again so I don’t really want to punish him based solely on performance.
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That's one way to look at it, I s'pose
I just am hesitant to rate first basemen in A-ball highly, and if I’m going to, they have to seem flawless. Here we have a guy in the low levels of the minors, with a mediocre track record of stats, playing the position that requires the most offensive output at the major-league level. Too many concerns for someone at his position and level, but that’s my tastes.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 8, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
What does that even mean? What is the significance of five spots?
Oh, yeah. Nothing.
It looks better to that person.
…they should send down Huntington & Nutting, because they aren’t ready, either. - royshowell
by Marinerfanjake on Jul 7, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
This needs to be reinforced
Heck, I don’t think ten spots – or, heck, more than that – makes a huge difference.
My example is this – as an avid Arizona follower, I like Parker more than Skaggs. I know, I know, I’m crazy and all, but the arsenal is more advanced, and I’m more sold on there being three pitches there. I’m confident that the command will piece itself together as the year goes on (another solid start tonight, though I still want to see more K’s), and Parker’s upside is higher than Skaggs’.
And that’s over a twenty-spot difference on this list.
You can very easily argue cases for one player being better than another over wide ranges on these lists once you get out of the sure-fire top-10 or so. It’s what makes it fun. :-)
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Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 8, 2011 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Cubs
A bit surprised that Brett Jackson came in so high, as he’s been very inconsistent since his hot start.
Darnell
I’d probably put him in the 40-50 range.
Mediocrity?
DJ is currently hitting .274/.370/.448 with 11 HR (a career high), 16 SB (in 17 attempts) and by all accounts is an above average defender in CF.
Please don’t confuse Tampa Bay’s refusal to call him up to big leagues with mediocrity.
I hate it when teams don't call up the one person that they need to.
I am so tired of seeing Desmond Jennings on these. He should have graduated by now.
…they should send down Huntington & Nutting, because they aren’t ready, either. - royshowell
by Marinerfanjake on Jul 7, 2011 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah Altuve is like an infield version of Ben Revere almost
Sure he has less speed but more power (suprisingly)
and Revere is doing very well as a Leadoff Man for the Twins now for like almost 2 months….also he should be in AAA because he’s never had more than a half season there. (combined time)
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jul 8, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
question to you though is
is Altuve more of a #2 hole hitter or can he lead off for the ’Stros at the big league level you think?
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jul 8, 2011 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I think I could lead off for the 'Stros :-P
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by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 8, 2011 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Do you think you're better than Michael Bourn?
Just poking fun. Yeah, my home team sucks, I know. :(
I think Altuve will be a number two hitter who can get on base by hitting for average, swipe 15 or so bags, and hit 10-15 homers, and play at least average defense at second base.
That is pretty aggressive as BA thinks he won’t even be an everyday regular but I’m a believer. Already started to like him last year and this season pushed me over into the full-blown “Altuve fan” camp.
Lest you accuse me of homerism, I’m not that big a fan of many Astros prospects. I would probably put only Altuve and J.D. Martinez in my personal top 100 right now (George Springer as well when he signs, maybe.)
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
I've been there, my friend
I could have closed for the D-backs last year… :-( Apparently I’m multi-talented. Who knew?
I’m not a huge Altuve fan, really. Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t see much of a difference between him and, say, Arizona’s Adam Eaton (same name, probably a better pitcher…). Altuve won’t hit freakin’ .800 forever (hyperbole!!!), and then that’s an awful lot of reliance on awfully-“meh” peripherals. Another Arizona example (I need a hobby) is Collin Cowgill, who I’m also not buying in the slightest. All three are short dudes who hit absurdly-well, particularly for average, in absurdly-hitter-friendly environments. I could see a few solid platoon guys coming from that group, though.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
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by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 8, 2011 3:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Differences between Altuve and both of those guys
Is he provides more defensive value, consistently drawing good reviews for his defense at second base, a more valuable position than a lucky-if-he-sticks-in-CF outfielder.
He generally draws more praise for his tools from scouts (the ones who don’t immediately turn up their nose because of his height).
That said Eaton and Cowgill are interesting, and perhaps underrated prospects.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
The age is a real point
But Eaton is a solid CFer. Not an awful comp, really, as the same things have been said about his tools by those not immediately turned off. Cowgill not so much in CF, you’re right.
I dunno, I like Altuve and Eaton, but more as really good depth guys in a system rather than premier guys in a system.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 8, 2011 4:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I wonder when people will start to give Michael Choice some love
as a point of comparison, he’s a year younger than Gary Brown at the same level, hitting for more power and taking more walks. Gary Brown strikes out less and hits for more average but I’d still take Choice any day of the week.
Striking out in over 25% of plate appearances is a BIG red flag
Especially in A-ball or A-Advanced.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
His K rate has steadily improved every month
Though, even with his prodigious home run power, that k rate is just too scary.
Yeah I'm not saying he's not a good prospect
But I can really understand the trepidation when you look at a college bat who is striking out that much in the lower levels. He’d probably slot in the back end of my top 100.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
I can't wait to see what you say when Springer is doing the same thing next year
by mrkupe on Jul 8, 2011 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Boom
Mrkupe with the smackdown
…they should send down Huntington & Nutting, because they aren’t ready, either. - royshowell
by Marinerfanjake on Jul 8, 2011 2:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Springer projects to stay in center field
Choice does not, so the offensive demands of their positions will obviously be different.
That said, I will be concerned about Springer as well if he is striking out 25+ percent of the time. I am expecting closer to 20% though.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
And by the way
I know you’re trying to imply homerism, but I vocally liked Springer as the 5th best player in the draft before the Astros picked him with no inside knowledge.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Looks like they went for more proven commodities
Don’t see one player from the short season ranks. I would have liked if they were a little more aggressive with Sano. His bat is pretty good.
Classified as “wait and see” on their stock up/down companion report.
http://mvn.com/mlb-tossingtherosin/
Sano definitely deserves a spot in the top 50 in my opinion. BA was very conservative when putting together this list.
How much better is Sano than Pimentel?
Same baseball age, same league, Pimentel’s outperforming him by a good bit. I know Sano is richer and has more positional value, but Pimentel’s just destroying the league. I don’t see why Sano’s in this discussion but Pimentel’s not. They seem to be about equivalent prospects to me. I’d probably give a slight edge to Sano, but I think there’s an argument for either of them.
by dnc on Jul 8, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know all that much about Pimentel, although his numbers so far this year have been great. What I do know is that Sano has a sky-high upside as a hitter, has been dubbed a future all-star by numerous scouts, and has produced excellent stats wherever he’s played, though he’s still in short-season ball.
Also, Sano doesn’t have more positional value than Pimentel, as there is no way he sticks at SS and will probably end up in RF once he fills out.
I know Sano's not a shortstop
I thought he had a shot at sticking at third. If he’s just a RF and they’re on essentially even positional ground that definitely the case for Pimentel stronger.
by dnc on Jul 8, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Cuthbert has them both beat
performing extremely well at a higher level. signed in same international class in 2009. and might have more chance to stay at position on good side of the positional spectrum (3B).
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.821 OPS in MWL > 1.245 in Appy?
Interesting question. I’m not convinced it’s open and shut.
JJ Cooper of BA did just say he’s a likely top 100 guy in chat, so there’s that. How likely is he to stick at 3B?
by dnc on Jul 8, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I think most would take the former
Full season is much harder than short-season, generally speaking.
and, FWIW
league-wide OPS for MWL is .691; Appy league is .753. .821 in MWL is pretty good and probably more meaningful than the appy number.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
I’m not sure that equation is true, but I also think that 148 PAs is only mildly more informative than 65 plate appearances… which isn’t very informative at all.
by realitypolice on Jul 8, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
he'll be a 3B as long as he doesn't get huge
which is always something to watch for with an 18-yo kid.
also showing better approach than the other two for what that’s worth.
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Right where he should be. Outside of any legit top 50.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra
by Kerm on Jul 7, 2011 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Good point. Webster shouldnt be top 50 either.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra
by Kerm on Jul 7, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
And you think this... why exactly? Just curious.
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I agree
they’re near the top of my Dodgers top-50
by gore51 on Jul 8, 2011 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Again, people are making comments dismissing Webster and Eovaldi which is totally fine
but if you’re serious, then back them up so I can tell if you’re serious. Why do you dismiss them? Or are you just being adversarial? Or against Dodgers prospects? Or… something else I’m missing. Happy to hear a rebuttal as to why Webster and/or Eovaldi aren’t good prospects at this point. But I don’t think you’ll be able to use stats or scouting reports in your rebuttal.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Where did he say
they weren’t good prospects? If you don’t rank them in the top 50 of all prospects in baseball you are dismissing them? I think it’s totally reasonable for you to ask for further explanation of these viewpoints, but you’re making fairly drastic assumptions if you think someone not considering them top 50 material equals someone thinking they aren’t good prospects/being dismissive.
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+1
plenty of Dodgers pitching prospects stepping up this year and getting noticed: Webster, Eovaldi, Gould, Lee, Rubby in majors now…..I wonder where the experts will rank the farm system at the end of the year.
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by Ray Guilfoyle on Jul 9, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure about that...
Webster’s only been pitching for 2 years now (he was a H.S. SS when drafted). He still hasn’t scratched his potential and is more than holding his own in AA. Eovaldi’s having a nice year, esp now that we’re seeing what he can do after TJ. Sure, he can dial up a fastball a bit higher than Webster — but that doesn’t mean he has better overall stuff.. (Especially considering Webster’s stuff is still developing, and you know what you’re getting from Eovaldi — fastball/slider).
I have a feeling BA (like others) view Eovaldi as a reliever and therefore probably didn’t give him as much consideration for the top 50.
What Eovaldi is doing in AA
should put to rest people pigeonholding him as a reliever. He’s dominating that league as a starter. Rountinely getting through lineups 2-3 times. Sure his 3rd pitch isn’t as impressive as his fb/slider combo; but it doesnt need to be right now. he’s still developing and if he can get that third pitch to become average, he’s well on his way to becoming a successful major league starter.
The numbers back you and Eovaldi up on that...
…but still as recently as BA’s last chat (i forgot if it was Callis or JJ Cooper) said that Eovaldi is still looked at as an impact power reliever by most scouts….which could just mean he’s closing for LA by mid 2012 (which woudlnt be too shabby).
The delivery is a little involved (not a big fan of over the head takeaways),
and Cooper specifically called out the wrist wrap, which is very pronounced, but I wouldn’t rule out starting just yet.
by blackoutyears on Jul 9, 2011 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
scouts/BA
may be holding onto prior evaluations of Eovaldi in my opinion.
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by Ray Guilfoyle on Jul 9, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
The wrist wrap is still there,
so I think it comes down to how much someone thinks that will affect his command at the highest level. I’m swayed by the strikeout and walk rates, history of low HRA, an ability to suppress hits, and a 2:1 grounder:fly ratio. He’s got a great build and looks durable, with an ability to hold his stuff deep into starts long term. Lots to like.
by blackoutyears on Jul 9, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
the wrist wrap is an overstated issue in general, IMO
I don’t think it has much to do with good or bad command as an independent factor. The last guy who got a lot of talk about the wrist wrap affecting his command was Aaron Crow, who just didn’t have his delivery together last year period.
The upside to the wrist wrap is that it helps the pitcher get heavy life on their pitches, and it’s not a surprise that players with a pronounced wrist wrap tend to have very impressive groundball ratios (like Eovaldi). So I don’t think you’d want him to work it out of his delivery, as it’d fundamentally change the pitcher that he is and that he can be.
Oh wow, no Casey Kelly is a bit surprising.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra
I have not seen or heard much about either this season
It’s a bit discouraging
…they should send down Huntington & Nutting, because they aren’t ready, either. - royshowell
by Marinerfanjake on Jul 7, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point. Webster shouldn't be top 50 either.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra
Frickin phone.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra
Why?
he hasn’t been very dominant this year.
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Jul 9, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
He's been fine
Still the same pitcher that they ranked 31st before the season began.
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I don't think the stuff was ever the concern
Saw him in a one inning stint and his fastball sat in the mid-90s with premium off-speed stuff. He’s also got the mature pitching approach that you’d want to see, willing to throw secondaries in any count. With Kelly I think it mostly comes down to command, and he hasn’t quite found that yet.
Where's Oswaldo?
Lame..I know. Couldn’t help it. I would take him over guys like Gose and Szczur. Might take him over Brown and B Jax also.
by ROBERTS04 on Jul 7, 2011 7:52 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Like Sano, he’s listed as “wait and see” on their stock up/down report. There was an accompanying quote, though:
“I think he’ll be a star,” said an AL scout.
http://mvn.com/mlb-tossingtherosin/
Arcia is a beast
He has huge potential and could be an offensive force.
Big Sexy
Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey
by King Billy Royal on Jul 7, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't know KBR
his swing, while generating good bad speed looks flat to me when i’ve seen him.
I think the Jury is still out on Oswalda, although he is doing well in Ft. Myers so far while just being promoted there.
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jul 8, 2011 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
*Oswaldo
temper enthusiasm a touch
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jul 8, 2011 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Arcia injured again?
Does anyone know why Arcia’s been missing from the Fort Myers lineup since being pinch-run for on Tuesday? He got a single in his 2nd AB; got pulled for a runner; hasn’t been seen/heard from since. Please just tell me he slid into a base wrong and didn’t mess up his elbow on a swing?
SHS - Arcia
Just saw your post about Arcia’s possible injury on your midseason list. Elbow? Really? Please tell me that’s only a worst-case hunch on your part (I hope so). Kid has done nothing but hit at every level. It’d be a shame if he were already tagged as a DH at age 20 because of the elbow.
(Given that Thome will still be playing at 132 years old when Arcia makes it up, I guess he’ll make good trade bait?)
lol
haha Thome is done after this year (my hunch) certainly after 2012 at latest
He’ll probably retire in the middle of the season once he reaches 600 dingers (only joking)
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jul 8, 2011 3:24 AM EDT up reply actions
not joking, Elbow is the issue with Arcia, the severity? NOT certain
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jul 8, 2011 3:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Arcia will make Hicks look like a country Bumpkin!!!!
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Jul 8, 2011 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Hope you're right
you could be, we’ll C in time
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jul 8, 2011 3:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Szczur over Marisnick
BA sucks plain and simple, i’m done following them and I canceled their subscription two months ago. Marisnick is a 5 tool player, Szczur is a 2 tool player hit and speed, Keith Law comped him to Juan Pierre today.
A player
that would bat .296/.346, steal 540 bases along with being good enough to be an MLB starter for over a decade would belong in the top 50, even with suspect defense. Szczer isn’t a defensive star, but he’s not Juan Pierre bad defensively.
Yeah, I took Klaw comparing him to Juan Pierre as a positive.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra
I didn't get that comparison
Juan Pierre hit only one home run over a three year span in the minors. He also never had an IsoD higher than .049 over that span.
Szczur already has 5 HRs and an IsoD of .053 on the season. He’s got a lot more power than Pierre has ever had.
by Outshined_One on Jul 8, 2011 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Nothing against Marisnick, he’s a really intriguing guy, but Szczur’s very similar (besides the growing pains on defense). You’ve got to throw some projection on cold weather kids…especially since Szczur’s never focused on baseball 100 percent until now. Unlike the aforementioned Hicks (above)…it’s nice to see toolsy guys like Szczur who do more than just wow you with their athleticism (see Szczur’s BB:K #s). In all reality, Marisnick is probably in the 70’s — and the difference between 50 and 70 is nitpicking…it just doesn’t get you published in a mostly-meaninginless midseason list.
(And for a fun activity, say “see Szczur” out loud 5x in a row.)
Marisnick has much more of a power ceiling.
For all the talk of Szczur’s tools, I’m concerned he has more of a leadoff type skill set. Marisnick could really be a five tool monster.
Also, “Szczur” is actually not that hard to say. Its pronounced like Julius or Augustus “Caesar.” Or “Caesar” salad. Uh… English pronounciation – not Classical Latin (…Jeff)
I heard that the other day too "Ceasar"
which is why I was figuring at the time it would be interesting to say “see ceasar” 5x fast. That was probably more a byproduct of it being 2am though.
I think what intrigues people about Szczur, me included, is the fact that he’s kind of Trout-lite. If there wasn’t as high-profile a guy like Trout front-and-center of prospect junkies tongues, then we’d probably be slightly less intrigued about Szczur. You’ve got good points about Marisnick. The plate discipline is something i’d like to see improve, but he’s got nothing but time…I’m sure it will come around. Marcus Knecht ’aint bad either in that lineup too.
Montero still being constanly overrated
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by mathisrocks5 on Jul 7, 2011 8:18 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
BA is stubborn
You get the sense that they need to be just a little bit more fluid with their rankings and their response to how prospects are performing. It’s good not to overreact but I think they skew a little too much in the opposite direction.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Jonathan Singleton is another example of this stubbornness
He’s definitely dropped out of my top 50.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
they did drop Gary Sanchez out of the top 50
after ranking him #30 last year (ahead of Banuelos). I think he was probably overranked then, but that’s still a big drop for a guy who’s very young.
http://www.yankeeanalysts.com
Makeup issues
Callis and Manuel have gone on record as saying they have heard of some makeup issues with Sanchez. That was probably enough to drop him out of the top 50.
Wow, you might've been right
by CaptainCanuck on Jul 7, 2011 9:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Skaggs and Pomeranz
are in the same level and have produced similar results, but Skaggs is over two years younger and is in the CAL league.
by CaptainCanuck on Jul 7, 2011 9:13 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Pomeranz is grossly over-ranked on this list imo.
BA had him ranked in 60’s preseason. I haven’t heard/read much to suggest he should be ranked in the top 15.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra
I was overly suprised when I saw this
BA is seemingly doing sloppy work.
…they should send down Huntington & Nutting, because they aren’t ready, either. - royshowell
by Marinerfanjake on Jul 7, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Does it surprise you that a polished SEC pitcher has an 11k/9?
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra
* In A+
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra
by Kerm on Jul 7, 2011 10:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed
the kid is not being challenged. Needs a promotion before endorsing a top 15 ranking.
Pom is defensible
His statistical performance after skipping short season ball and jumping straight into A-Advanced has been nothing short of phenomenal.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Nah
25-30 would be defensible, as I said above, I don’t put much stock in his stats at that level.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra
by Kerm on Jul 7, 2011 10:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
nothing against Pomeranz
but IMO Skaggs is the better prospect.
by CaptainCanuck on Jul 8, 2011 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
BA very very stubborn about being WRONG
I think it is outright embarassing for BA to post these rankings. They clearly stick with the same players they had high on the list before the season and give very very little credit to guys that have emerged this year. They did the same thing last to Brandon Belt until the very end of the season, finally started giving him some love. Players serverely over-ranked on their list today include, Montero, Hicks, Montgomery,Gibson, Parker, Rosario, Singleton, B.Jackson and Gordon. All of these guys are having so-so to poor years at best, but BA went high on them before the season started. Very very poor in my opinion. Guys they just did not give the credit they clearly deserve and are having fantastic seasons, but were not high on BA prospect list before the season include, Brentz, M.Head, Goldschmidt, Gyorko, Arcia,Peacock, Castellanos, Darnell, Marisnick and Webster and probably a few more. Brentz and Goldschmidt are probably going to be top 10 every year in HR’s and RBI’s in the big leagues. BA was not high on them before the season and couldnt bite the bullet. Very very poor and incredibly stubborn.
How can you say they are WRONG or even wrong when we haven't seen what these prospects will turn into?
The fact you want to dismiss Montero who is a stud hitter that has been know to carry his D into his O shows what I need to know. Once Montero moves to first or DH he will go Carlos Delgado on you. By then you will probably have forgotten about this and will be complaining about another set of rankings.
by pedrophile on Jul 7, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes,
clearly BA should overreact to half-season performances by previously unranked players because those players almost always pan out. It’s not like BA is infallible, but for those of who actually read most of what they write, they more than cover themselves by writing up all the players people kvetch about (see Brandons Belt and Beachy last year). They were the first mention I saw of Arcia two years ago, suggesting that he might be the sleeper in the MIN Top 30. They’ve written up Goldschmidt and Peacock this year as well, and Brentz, and, well, pretty much everyone on your list.
by blackoutyears on Jul 8, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
totally forgot about him
even accounting for the injuries this year, he should be back half of the top 50, given his move to SS with good reports on defense, and the way he was swinging the bat in Apr into May
Wow
i’m really suprised by this, as well
i wonder if he was #51-55 or so or what?
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jul 8, 2011 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
As an angel fan, im concerned that he is only hitting 270 in A ball.... Eye is developing and glove and speed are for real with suprising pop, but I'm worried he is no more than admiral (erick) aybar
Mike Trout- The Man, The Future, The Legend
by miketrout on Jul 8, 2011 12:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He has been battling hamstring issues
I’m sure that has affected his play. Hopefully they clear up and don’t hinder him throughout his career like they have with Reyes.
No Nick Franklin is the only real big omission to me
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Not really
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by mathisrocks5 on Jul 8, 2011 1:28 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ranaudo and Kelly
Anyone else get this sick feeling BA just switched their names? How in the hell is Ranaudo top 40 while Kelly is off the list? Same age and Kelly is putting up better stats in AA while Ranaudo is in A+.
Kelly repeated AA
Its probably the same reason Darnell didn’t get the love his season suggests he deserves. Ranaudo was also an assured top 5 pick going into last year injuries aside. Though neither pitcher has been dominant this year, so far.
by Ryan Kennedy on Jul 7, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Kelly
also decided to be a full-time pitcher last year. If you’re talking about potential, Kelly flashes three + pitches and #2 starter potential. Couple that with far superior results in a much harder league, I don’t see the argument for Ranaudo.
reply fail sorry
How are the results far superior
They’ve both pitched well, but to say that Kelly has been dominate at AA is crazy, or that he’s significantly out pitched Ranaudo. I also believe both have number two starter potential but the crux of my argument wasn’t that Ranaudo was better, it was that Kelly was being penalized for repeating AA.
by Ryan Kennedy on Jul 8, 2011 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
there's no penalty
though, IMO, because last year was his first only pitching.
And I never said Kelly was dominant but people continue to underrate his numbers. He has a 52% GB rate and 2.5 K/BB ratio. What is that if not very good? His tRA+ is 110 compared to 100 for Ranaudo, and again Kelly is pitching in AA which is a big jump up from A+.
Kelly
also decided to be a full-time pitcher last year. If you’re talking about potential, Kelly flashes three + pitches and #2 starter potential. Couple that with far superior results in a much harder league, I don’t see the argument for Ranaudo.
I like Szczur and think Richards and segura could easily be considered for top 35, let alone 50
Aside from the Angels, I’d like to see G Sanchez and I think that Martin Perez is high, tijuan Walker is low, Goldy is low and Singleyon has no business in a top 75
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by miketrout on Jul 7, 2011 11:48 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Segura yeah
Richards prob not. His home-road splits this year are pretty insane. He loves pitching in his friendly home park, but on the road, he’s been mediocre at best
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by mathisrocks5 on Jul 8, 2011 1:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Interesting
Not going to comment at all on the rankings, just how everyone is seemingly an expert now on who should be ranked where … esp the top 50 where most are universally pegged there or close on these types of lists. It’s great to have opinions but man, flat out bad mouthing people for work they do just cause of your opinion on a baseball prospect? Don’t get me wrong I love prospects and I get that weird look from people who don’t understand it… but all this seems a bit much.
all this seems a bit much
Welcome to List-mania.
by blackoutyears on Jul 8, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
No Tyler Matzek?
dude was a first round pick
So was Eric Arnett
Brandon Jacobs of Lowell > Brandon Jacobs of NYG
he's gone back
to working with his HS pitching coach….been terrible this year.
Ray Guilfoyle
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by Ray Guilfoyle on Jul 9, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Graduated?
Anyone know how many innings for a pitcher or abs for a hitter makes them ineligible?
Rookie Rules
Isn’t it the same as the rookie rules? 50 IP and 130 ABs?
by Pelferized on Jul 8, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Probably a lot of judgement
No Belt or Ackley tells me they only listed guys they thought would still have rookie eligibility by year’s end.
You've got to have at least 6 abs.
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by Kenneth Arthur on Jul 8, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gyorko
I’m intrigued that Gyorko is at 49. I have him fourth on my personal Padres list.
Kelly, Darnell, Sampson, Gyorko?
Is that the top 4?
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RIP Randy "Macho Man" Savage
I tend to agree with John that listing pitchers and position guys together is tough, but my rankings are:
P
Kelly
Sampson
Oramas
Castro
Portillo
Brach
Barbato
Lollis
Reyes
Cates
If I was being really honest, I’d probably rank Sampson above Kelly, but thus far am too chicken-shit to actually do it.
Positional:
Darnell
Decker
Gyorko
Liriano
Decker
Domoromo
Hagerty
Galvez
Rincon
Tate
by realitypolice on Jul 8, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
no fuentes?
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by mathisrocks5 on Jul 8, 2011 4:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
staying on the CF subject
No Tekotte? He isn’t much against LHPs, but if he keeps hitting like he has, he’ll have himself a job. Oh, and obviously I’m wondering where you slot Spangenberg.
It’s a nice system though, not much in the way of premium guys but a lot of guys who should get chances.
Cory Spangenberg
I liked him pre-Draft & he’s done nothing but impress in SS ball. He’d probably be in here somewhere, no?
Absolutely
I steered clear of any 2011 draftees, but clearly Spang will rank.
No Fuentes. Unless you’re a pitcher, a .352 slugging percentage in the Cal League does not excite me. Yes, I know he’s got defense and speed, but there’s no part of his game I like over Liriano, and I don’t think his overall game matches up with the three guys I put at the bottom of the list.
re: Tekotte, I like him a lot, but think he’s unlikely to get a real look from the current player development regime. I absolutely believe he could be a starter on a second-division big league club, providing above average defense in center. I just don’t think McLeod and Uhlman do, and suspect that his window of opportunity will close before he gets to another org.
by realitypolice on Jul 8, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
That's tough about Tekotte
I like what I’ve seen of the swing, and he has solid speed and power, especially for a CF. The power would probably shine a little brighter outside Petco admittedly.
by blackoutyears on Jul 8, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Just to be clear
That’s a wild-ass guess on my part, not anything from the organization.
by realitypolice on Jul 9, 2011 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I liked him pre-Draft too,
But I don’t see how a sample in short-season ball for a college guy means anything. Same goes with Panik.
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by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 8, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
got to see him last night
The back end of the BA midseason top 50 tends to be pretty favorable to guys who have impressed more with their first half numbers than with their tools, but he’s worth talking about.
Yeah...
It really seemed to me like they tried hard to get all the first half helium guys in there. I wouldn’t be shocked to see a lot of those drop into the 60-100 range in the winter.
I was hoping
you’d include your observations on him when you do your Odo recap.
I should be clear that I think that Darnell/Decker/Gyorko are pretty narrowly separated.
by realitypolice on Jul 8, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
you'll certainly get that
As a nice bonus, I now have a video camera. My skills are novice at best at this point, but I have lots of still shots and I have usable video of certain players. I think I might have a few swings out of Gyorko, but I do not have tape of his home run off of Odorizzi, which was a no-doubter pulled to deep left.
Anybody you wanted to see?
Reyes
If you got anything from his few innings last night, I’d be interested. He’s easily the most flummoxing guy in their system. (It seems that’s what Coach Casey and the Beavers specialize in… Peavey, Robles, Osich, Waldron all fucking baffle me.)
by realitypolice on Jul 8, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
not sure I have good video on him at the moment, but I can see if I can catch another start of his in the future
Quick report on him, though, as I also saw Reyes previously at the Texas League All Star Game. FB at a consistent 90-92 MPH, solid slider at 84-86 MPH. Arm angle helps him keep the ball down. Below-average command, sometimes seems to just throw his stuff and see what happens. Doesn’t show much of a changeup. Projected him as a possible middle reliever, but could just as easily be one of those guys who shuttles between AA and AAA his entire career.
I would definitely put Darnell ahead of Gyorko
But Gyorko is ahead of Kelly for me, too.
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by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 8, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
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