Milb Gameday, 4/26/2011
by casejud on Apr 26, 2011 11:01 AM EDT
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My appologies for my part in letting the gameday thread get out of hand the other day. It was kinda ugly. We'll try to keep this to just reporting the day's minor league action as much as possible ok? I will anyways :) Here's some of the kid hurlers taking the mound today. Enjoy!
AAA - Jay Jackson vs Lance Lynn, Danny Duffy, Brett Cecil, Charles Furbush, Alex Torres vs Johnny Cueto, Kyle Gibson
AA - Austin Hyatt, Mark Cohoon, David Bromberg vs Zach Stewart, Trey McNutt, Chris Withrow, Cody Scarpetta, Erasmo Ramirez, JJ Hoover, Chris Dwyer, Christian Freidrich vs Garrett Richards
A+ and A Ball - Zeke Spruill, Barret Loux, Andre Rienzo, Trevor May, Jake Petricka, Keyvius Sampson
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Drake Britton
Looking ugly so far this season: 13 ER in 9+ IP
Maybe a game against the light-hitting Kinston Indians can revive him
James Darnell
Went YARD for the 4th time this year, and has walked, and is hitting .464 with 17 walks. He has as many homers as STRIKOUTS!. Darnell begs the question “When does a hot start become more than a hot start?”
Not that his average or any of his other numbers are “statistically signuificant” but, when do you think it is fair to say it represents an actual improvement in the player.
I won’t ask though :) I’ll just say he’s doing really well so far, in a small sample size.
"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson
First of all, that’s not begging the question. He might make you ask the question, but that’s different. (Sorry, language geek strikes again!)
To the topic, given that in this case the player is a guy who had a 970 OPS through his first 700 professional plate appearances and then dropped off in large part because of a hand injury, the statistically insignificant increase in production this year really just goes to what most observers thought about him 13 months ago… dude can hit the ball really well. If only someone thought he was a future third baseman!
by realitypolice on Apr 26, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
This 'beg the question' problem
… would go away if we just gave ‘beg the question’ to the journalists, et al, and reverted to calling the logical fallacy ‘petitio principii’, like the old-schoolers did. ‘Beg the question’ does sound a lot like ‘ask the question’, after all. And no TV news anchor is going to accidentally abuse ‘petitio principii’.
Baseball, what?
by Brownson on Apr 26, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
correct me if I'm wrong
but isn’t “begs the question” an expression? And haven’t expressions been defined by how they are used and not how they were intended?
To some degree you are correct.
However it is always a bad idea to use an expression in a way it was not intended, unless you are trying to be as many might say, ironic.
by auclairkeithbc on Apr 26, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
why?
many expressions that we use today we don’t know the origins of.
again, why is it wrong?
Idioms do not agree with grammatical or standard usage. More often than not they are defined by usage and not original intent. Many times there is no clear documentation of original intent. Also, the way they document and determine original intent is by usage. lol.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/idiom
For example while it is ok to use the a friend in need the way it is commonly used it appears that is actually incorrect. They don’t go as far as saying this since the evidence isn’t 100% clear and so any usage that fits past usage is considered correct.
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/a-friend-in-need.html
It’s kind of funny since the way they define idioms almost matches the definition of petitio principii.
Beggin' (the Question) Strips
If someone answered casejud’s question “When does a hot start become more than a hot start?” with “As long as the hot streak continues,” that would be begging the question in the technical sense of the term.
Some others
- Drake Britton (as mentioned a couple posts above, he isn’t exactly channeling Zach Britton) goes for Salem.
- Brandon Workman in the SAL
- Austin Kirk looks to keep things rolling for Peoria
- Braulio Lara, Daniel Tillman & Leondy Perez also in the MWL (the latter two going H2H)
- Erik Davis for Harrisburg (AA)
Where's Turner?
last pitched on the 18th, not scheduled for either half of Erie’s doubleheader today. Anyone know what’s up with that?
MiLB.com lists him as the probable pitcher for tomorrow's game.
On Twitter at RedSoxFaithful
Blogging at WAU: The Blog
by RedSoxFaithful on Apr 26, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Jay Jackson
6.2, 4 H, 1 BB, 1 K, 1 ER. 8-7 GO-FO.
Some early Rangers action
Justin Grimm, sort of a sleeper, 5th round pick last year, 5.2 IP, 5H, 1ER, 2BB, 8K today.
Profar 2-3, BB.
Nelson Cruz - 2011 MVP
Another
Odubel Herrera: 1-5, HR. .329/.373/.514 line in his 18 games
Engel Beltre: 2-5, K. Dude is kinda sucking right now. .243/.278/.311. 3:17 BB:K. Yuck
>mfw
Dee Gordon
Also has a multi-hit game today…despite what some of his detractors think, I like the kid. I hope he makes it.
Play ball!
Both hits were singles, no SB, and he made his 7th error. He did turn two DP, for what it’s worth.
Play ball!
I've always been pretty skeptical of errors in the minors.
The fields suck, the first basemen aren’t very good, and who knows what you’ve got for an official scorer. All errors really tell me is that the guy got to the ball. I think that huge minor league error totals have to be viewed as a negative, but in a vacuum, they don’t really matter to me.
I agree
Thats why I think a lack of errors can be significant sometimes.
"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson
agreed, very possible one isn't getting to as many balls
we’ve seen great defenders with very high error totals.
Bullpen Banter's Top 100 Prospects for 2011!
- - - - - - - -
You can find my musings at Bullpen Banter and Beyond the Box Score.
Dang
. . . I thought we almost agreed on something here. Except I meant that a lack of errors is significant in that it is GOOD. There are other numbers to measure how many balls a player is getting too but, making less errors in the minors is more telling in the minors, in that it is more difficult because of the conditions.
"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson
RE
I’m sorry, I just can’t decipher this.
Bullpen Banter's Top 100 Prospects for 2011!
- - - - - - - -
You can find my musings at Bullpen Banter and Beyond the Box Score.
Ok
Sorry If I wasn’t clear.
What I’m saying Is that in the minors the fielding conditions are so poor it is relatively easy, statistically, to spot a player who has some fielding skill.
Also, the " the players who are making less errors have less range" argument doesn’t hold water because there separate stats to measuure this. Some do, some don’t.
Also, just because errors are subjective doesn’t make them devoid of meaning. That would render a scouting report meaningless as well no?
"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson
re
Also, the " the players who are making less errors have less range" argument doesn’t hold water because there separate stats to measuure this. Some do, some don’t.
Can you elaborate? I don’t think anyone is saying that making less errors means they have less range. Just that having more errors doesn’t necessarily mean they are poor fielders.
Also, just because errors are subjective doesn’t make them devoid of meaning. That would render a scouting report meaningless as well no?
No, but think of the issue with Line Drive data in the minor leagues. There are huge various from park to park. Scorers will have different tendencies and what may be an error at home may not be on the road and vice versa.
Bullpen Banter's Top 100 Prospects for 2011!
- - - - - - - -
You can find my musings at Bullpen Banter and Beyond the Box Score.
Lack
Lack of errors is a problem, lack of strikeouts is a problem… for some other contrarian player-scouting views, maybe lack of passed balls for catchers and lack of HR given up for pitchers?
I disagree
Strikeouts are an objective result.
Errors however are subjective.
Below is a list of good defenders and their error totals in the minors.
Troy Tulowitzki — 30 errors in 121 minor league games, 1 error every 4.0 games.
Khalil Greene — 27 errors in 173 minor league games, 1 error every 6.4 games.
Edgar Renteria — 40 errors in 169 minor league games, 1 error every 4.2 games.
Adam Everett — 75 errors in 443 minor league games, 1 error every 5.9 games.
Erick Aybar — 119 errors in 475 minor league games, 1 error every 4.0 games.
Cristian Guzman — 32 errors in 140 minor league games, 1 error every 4.4 games.
Tony Pena — 103 errors in 462 minor league games, 1 error every 4.5 games.
Elvis Andrus – 95 Errors in 340 minor league games, 1 error in every 3.5.
Bullpen Banter's Top 100 Prospects for 2011!
- - - - - - - -
You can find my musings at Bullpen Banter and Beyond the Box Score.
at the time i complied that, which was a long time ago.
Bullpen Banter's Top 100 Prospects for 2011!
- - - - - - - -
You can find my musings at Bullpen Banter and Beyond the Box Score.
Mostly I was trying
To zing casejud for saying twice now recently that an on-field outcome generally regarded as bad really should be viewed as a sign of talent.
RE
Personally, I don’t concern myself with strikeouts after AA as long as they are reasonable. Prior to AA though, they are very important to me. I look at walks inversely. Don’t care about them until AA.
I don’t think a high error total is dispositive.
Bullpen Banter's Top 100 Prospects for 2011!
- - - - - - - -
You can find my musings at Bullpen Banter and Beyond the Box Score.
Zing!
Good one Bud, except I was saying low errors was good. Sorry, I can’t always be counterintuitive.
"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson
Low Errors
Oh. Well, I got it wrong. I thought you were making the same argument about errors as you did about strikeouts: a K is a proxy for hard contact and an E is a proxy for range. I thought it was interesting. But I blew it. Sorry.
This
. . . actually illustrates my point. ALL of these are LOW error rates for the minor leagues. In fact, Id be willing to bet that almost all of these players led a league or two in fielding percentage (as well as range) in the minor leagues.
"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson
RE
What is your point of reference for “low”? The major league average in 2010 was 1 error per 7 games at SS…
Bullpen Banter's Top 100 Prospects for 2011!
- - - - - - - -
You can find my musings at Bullpen Banter and Beyond the Box Score.
Not the major league average!
C’mon Man :) Thats not even the same animal.
Tulo’s 30 errors in 121 games would look mark him as a solid SS in , the minors for me, especially combined with other solid fielding numbers.
"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson
For you?
Again, I don’t care what you think unless you tell me me why you think it.
We’re projecting future performance here. These error totals are high, despite what you may believe. I don’t believe it is accurate to attribute the field conditions to the variance error per game instead of the divergent talent level present at each level.
Bullpen Banter's Top 100 Prospects for 2011!
- - - - - - - -
You can find my musings at Bullpen Banter and Beyond the Box Score.
Hak Ju Lee
. . . anyways, on to a more substantial SS prospect, Mr. Lee led off the game with a home-run for Charlotte tonight. This is the second time in a week he has done this
"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson
Bang
. . . he’s so good, he should be a Royal huh ’Stix? :)
"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson
he is pretty damn good...
:D
R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
http://twitter.com/doublestix
there's been surprisingly little harper talk on here...
half of the nights i actually have to look up his box scores for myself…unfortunate
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Apr 26, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I was thinking the same thing a few days ago
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra
im sure it'll pick up if he keeps hitting
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Apr 27, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
no fucking wil myers again tonight....
did he look at the coach wrong or something
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Apr 26, 2011 7:47 PM EDT reply actions
again?
Did they actually play the last three or four days? I don’t think so.
5 IP 1 H 0 R 4 BB 7K
Obviously don’t like the walks, but it’s still a good start.
by walnut falcons on Apr 26, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
2 excellent starts in a row
the only thing i know that is different is the 5:3 GB/FO ratio may be dropping a bit this year againt international competetion.
"Well Played Mauer"
Big fan of Juerys Familia and his repitoire
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Apr 27, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel like you should have had it "Kenneth" Trey McNutt
Kenneth just doesn’t sound right.
But also 0-3 with 3Ks
Assume the SB came after the 1 BB
He is also batting .240 with little power and bad reports on his D at SS
Color me unimpressed so far.
Trevor May
Complete game (7 innings) with 6 Ks/0 BBs, 4 hits and 1 run. Nice to see him right things after a few shaky starts.
Jarek Cunningham
Hit a pair of homers tonight. Now OPSing over 1.000 for the season, albeit with a meh average.
don't worry about the average
his peripherals are strong… and even if they aren’t, if you get Adam Dunn production from 2B, you don’t complain
his average is at .265 now
nothing wrong with that.
finished 3-5, and no strikeouts or errors.
Grossman finished 1-3, with 2 BB. I still like him a whole lot too. he’s always been great with BB%. and I think the power will come
his ISOP is now .411
….for a MIFer with a strong ARL in the Florida State League, i doubt there’s a more impressive power stat in the minors.
Flores must have missed the memo that he doesn't walk or hit HRs
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
by Russ on Apr 27, 2011 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did anyone see KG's notes on Flores on Monday's Ten Pack?
Ouch! Flores had better start hitting HRs.
Colorado Springs is ridiculous right now
17-2 right now. Pacheco has 5 hits, Stewart has 3 hits, 2 walks, no outs made and a homer, Blackmon has homered twice, and Nelson has tripled and homered.
2011: A new year and a new chance at a championship.
I truly wonder what some of these run environmental do to player development.
Bullpen Banter's Top 100 Prospects for 2011!
- - - - - - - -
You can find my musings at Bullpen Banter and Beyond the Box Score.
this was Brett Cecil's first start since his demotion to AAA
He was on the hook for 4.1 IP, 11 R, 13 H, 3 HR, 3 BB, 2 K.
Oswaldo Arcia
4-4, 1 double, 2 HR, 3 rbi.
finally a breakout game
Yes
"Well Played Mauer"
Big fan of Juerys Familia and his repitoire
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Apr 27, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Lipka
Really like the kid, been hitting better … but come on no extra base hits eve with that speed??
Jean Segura
Jean Segura is having a nice start to the year.
8.2% BB%, 12.3% K%. 131 wRC+ tho, supported by a .404 BABIP which is unsustainable, even for one with his speed. Surprised in the lack of SB considering how much he has been on base.
Looking at the raw results, it appears Aaron Hicks is off to a slow start, but his ratios are improving and I’d be surprised if he didn’t heat up quickly. Same can be said for Lonnie Chisenhall whose has improved his walk rate (thus far) for the fourth consecutive year while keeping SO low.
Bullpen Banter's Top 100 Prospects for 2011!
- - - - - - - -
You can find my musings at Bullpen Banter and Beyond the Box Score.
Speaking of improved ratios
Nick Franklin. 2-3 2B 2BB
.314/.500/.486 over his last 10 with an 8:12 K:BB (.295/.434/.475 with a 13:14 K:BB on the season)
Way more impressed by this than I would be by him hitting out a bunch of home runs in High Desert (although it would be nice if he had more than 1 dinger, I’m not about to complain)
Jonathan Schoop
2-6, HR, 2B. He’s off to a very nice start, .320/.393/.547 and a 8/9 BB/K ratio.
Is he related to Sharlon?
I’ve only seen references in semi-questionable sources. I’ve assumed it since they’re from the same town, but if someone knows for sure, I’d appreciate confirmation.
by realitypolice on Apr 27, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Chris Withrow
5IP 5H 5R 2BB 9K 1HR
He had a nice line before giving up a walk & 3 consecutive singles in the 6th. He was pulled at that point and all came around to score.
Bullpen Banter
Twitter Account: @Ioffridus
Some others
Charlie Blackmon – 3 for 5 with 2 HR, 3 R, 5 RBI & 1 BB. Yeah yeah, PCL, etc – but this kid is killing it. One of my favorite AA/AAA position player prospects, he’s on his way to showing that the consensus’ Probable fourth OF’ label might have been a bit conservative to say the least in my opinion. I think he can & probably will be a very good regular assuming health.
Paul Goldschmidt – Rained out. Only Mother Nature can halt Goldschmidt & even that is only a fleeting hindrance.
Nolan Arenado – 0 for 4 in the CAL & still looking for his first Hi-A HR.
Bobby Borchering: 0 for 4 with 3 K for Visalia (2 BB to 26 K thus far – eek)
Kolbrin Vitek: 2 for 5 with 1 R. 18 for his last 36 with 6 XBH (0 HR).
particularly
If he’s a CF. By all reports he can be, but with Taveras at Col Springs they’re playing him in RF. And, of course, Fowler in Coors is an obstacle, too.
Chisenhall
4 for 5, all singles. Not off to a great start after his scorching spring, but hopefully this helps him break out a bit. I’ve got him on a couple dynasty league teams.
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