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Career Profile: Mike Mussina

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Mike Mussina (Getty Images)

Career Profile: Mike Mussina

One of my favorite pitchers of the last 20 years is Mike Mussina. He's been retired for three years now, and a couple of readers requested him as a Career Profile subject.

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Mike Mussina was a starting pitcher at Stanford University. In 1990, he went 14-5, 3.50 with a 111/35 K/BB ratio in 149 innings for the Cardinal, allowing 158 hits. He was considered a very advanced pitcher with a lot of polish, above-average stuff (90-94 MPH fastball, knuckle-curve, slider, changeup)  and a high level of intelligence (he graduated with a degree in economics), which was enough to get him drafted in the first round, 20th-overall, by the Baltimore Orioles.

Pitchers with "higher ceilings" in the draft that year included Alex Fernandez (drafted fourth overall by the White Sox), California high school right-hander Kurt Miller (fifth overall by the Pirates),  Oklahoma high school lefty Ron Walden (ninth overall by the Dodgers), Texas prep Todd Ritchie (12th overall by the Twins), UNLV lefty Donovan Osborne (13th overall by the Cardinals), Creighton University southpaw Dan Smith (16th overall by the Rangers), and the infamous Todd Van Poppel, drafted 14th overall by Oakland but considered the best arm in the draft by virtually everyone. Fernandez and Osborne had some success in the majors, but Mussina outpitched them all.

It didn't take long. Mussina was sent to Double-A Hagerstown to begin his career right out of college, and he pitched extremely well, with a 1.49 ERA and a 40/7 K/BB in 42 innings, 34 hits allowed. He made two starts in Triple-A to finish the year, posting a 15/4 K/BB in 13 innings for Rochester. Scouting reports were as good as the numbers, pointing to Mussina's sharp command of four pitches. I would have given him a Grade A- at worst.

Mussina was sent to Triple-A to begin 1991 and had no problems at all, going 10-4, 2.87 in 19 starts, with a 107/31 K/BB in 122 innings, 108 hits allowed. Promoted to Baltimore for the second half, he didn't skip a beat, going 4-5 but with a 2.87 ERA in 12 starts and a 52/21 K/BB in 88 innings, 77 hits allowed. He exceeded rookie eligibility of course and wouldn't have been on subsequent prospect lists, but he was clearly one of the best young pitchers in the game.

He won 18 games for the Orioles (2.54 ERA) in 1992, and the rest is history. Despite an aberrant ERA spike in 1996 (4.81, but that was still an above-average ERA for the year and he still won 19 games) Mussina was consistent, durable, and very effective for the next 17 seasons in Baltimore and New York. He had a few injury troubles late in his mid-30s, hardly unexpected of course, but avoided serious health problems.

Mussina was always one of my favorites. He seemed overlooked at times when great pitchers were discussed, even after his switch to the Yankees, but he was always there and always good. He went 270-153 (.638) in 3563 innings, with 2813 strikeouts and just 785 walks in his career. His career 3.68 ERA came out to a 123 ERA+, 3.57 FIP. He went out on a strong note: his 2008 season, his last year, was one of his best: he won 20 games for the first time, with a 3.37 ERA, 3.32 FIP, and a 132 ERA+. By this time his velocity had dipped into the 80s, but his incredible feel for pitching compensated. He finished with a career 85.6 WAR, with 2000 (6.4), 2003 (6.4), and 2001 (7.1) being his peak seasons.

Should Mussina make the Hall of Fame? Although his "Black Ink" total is just 15 (the average HOFer rates at 40), his Gray Ink rating of 250 is the 21st best of all time, and the average HOFer hits 185 in that metric. His Hall of Fame Monitor reading is 121, with 100 being average. His Hall of Fame Standards reading is 54, with 50 being average. These markers show him as a Hall-type pitcher.

Sim Scores comps are Andy Pettitte, Juan Marichal (Hall), David Wells, Curt Schilling, Jim Palmer (Hall), Carl Hubbell (Hall), Kevin Brown, Jack Morris, Clark Griffith (Hall), and Jim Bunning (Hall).

Although it isn't a 100 percent slam-dunk case, it isn't really a marginal one, either: he rates as a "mid-point" Hall of Famer in my view, and I would vote for him. From a prospect perspective, Mussina's development was very rapid and without any bumps in the road.

He has me thinking about Stanford pitchers, and I am planning a piece on "Post-Mussina-Stanford-Pitchers" for next week.

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He is my all-time favorite pitcher. I was happy for him that he went out with such a strong final season. I always thought as far as PR went, he was maybe too intelligent for his own good with the press, but he had a dry sense of humor in how he put things that I always found very funny.

Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."

by Scott Christ on Mar 3, 2011 3:06 PM EST reply actions  

The Stanford pitchers piece...

should be interesting. They haven’t produced much since Mussina as far as pitchers go…are they a program famous for “overworking” their pitchers?

Anyway, Moose was always interesting to me. He always gave the Yankees trouble when he was an Oriole when I was younger, and despite being 13 I was excited when he became a Yankee. As a Yankee I found out all the stuff that really made me a fan…he couldn’t stand being bothered by the media and got kind of a well respected codger treatment here in NY…the standout to me was either Kay or Murcer or Singleton talking about Mussina did weird things like….read books….he had a really dry sense of humor because I think he knew he wasn’t that guy who’d blow the media away with personality. Guy just struck me as someone who didn’t mess around and stayed within himself…two qualities that are too rare nowadays.

I’m also a fan because it’s completely unnoticed that he’s a “short” right handed pitcher…he’s listed as 6’2 on BR now, but I’m pretty sure they’ve had him at 6’1 and 6’ too…honestly I’d say he’s maybe 6’1"…barely taller than me.

John, any minor league pitcher out there who currently reminds you of Mussina?

by SenorGato on Mar 3, 2011 3:17 PM EST reply actions  

As a lifelong Os fan...

The fact that you chose a photo of Moose as a Yankee is like a knife to the heart. Ouch.

by basemonkey on Mar 3, 2011 6:45 PM EST reply actions  

Just wanted to restate that...

..his unquestionably best years was in a Baltimore uniform.

by basemonkey on Mar 3, 2011 6:46 PM EST up reply actions  

agree

I agree with this but I couldn’t find an Orioles/Mussina photo that I have the legal right to use.

by John Sickels on Mar 3, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Devil's Advocate take on Mike Mussina

In my mind, without looking at stats, Mike Mussina is not a Hall of Famer.

However, the stats don’t back that up. His career numbers are that of a Hall of Famer. So, what does this mean? For me, he doesn’t pass the “gut” test. So, why doesn’t he? (This is my opinion. Gut test is entirely subjective)

One thing, and this goes along with the recently discussed Duke Snider, is that Mussina’s peak was not legendary. Sniders 4 year peak was something like ~40 WAR and that’s one of the reasons he’s so fondly remembered. When a player “goes off” like a Sammy Sosa or a Duke Snider, we will remember them mostly for that peak. It’s the long periods of consistency that are easily forgotten. It’s like, you can’t ignore when Jose Bautista hits 57 HR. I mean, its 57 HR. We won’t forget Luis Gonzalez for the same reason. But if a player consistently hits 20-30 HR for 13 years? It’s like “Yeah, I remember him. He was cool.” Someone like Bobby Abreu.

Mussina’s career 162 game average win-loss was 17-10. Amazing for a career that long to average 17 wins. But as we know, it took him until the very end to reach 20. (And we should know by now that 20 is a lot of wins in this era. And that wins don’t mean that much.) He lead the league in wins in 1995. In winning percentage in 1992. And shutouts also in 1995. Never led the league in any other category except for innings once, games started twice, and BB/9 once. He pitched in the era of Clemens, Pedro, Maddux, Glavine, Randy… that made him a “2nd tier pitcher” because those guys were definitely superior. I mean, its not a knock on him, they are superior pitchers to most people in history. But he was an afterthought.

He never won a Cy Young, though he did win 7 Gold Gloves. He went to just 5 All-Star games in 18 years. His comparisons to Pettitte and Wells aren’t good Hall of Fame cases to me, only because I don’t believe those players are Hall of Famers.

It’s funny, when I look back on the 90’s in 10 years maybe, I’ll still remember Hideo Nomo, David Cone, John Smoltz, Kevin Brown, and Curt Schilling. But Mike Mussina will be somewhat of an afterthought, even if he was better than most of those pitchers. He just wasn’t flashy, didn’t put up ridiculous strikeout numbers or no-hitters (I know he came close, but horseshoes and hand grenades), he just went about his business. That’s probably why he would maybe be left off my non-existent Hall of Fame ballot, though I’m sure he will get in and I’m sure eventually I would put him in too. His career numbers are too good.

by Kenneth Arthur on Mar 3, 2011 7:10 PM EST reply actions  

The epitome of Moose's career in one game....

9/2/2001 against the Red Sox…8 2/3 perfect innings…2 strikes on Carl Everett….gives up a single.

His career is ALMOST storybook…well known HS pitcher goes to big college program and goes in the first round….breezes through the minors….long, very good career…but yeah no WS rings…no Cy Youngs…took him forever to get 20 wins in a season…never really considered a tippity top tier pitcher…

by SenorGato on Mar 3, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll give you Clemens, Maddux, Johnson

But both Pedro (73.5) and Glavine (71.6) fall short of Mike (74.6) in WAR. I will even give you Pedro, due to the crazy peak. But no way was Glavine a better pitcher.
Mike had a higher WAR even with Glavine having a 850 extra innings, and 4.8 WAR of offensive credit. Take away Glavine’s worst years, and 1990-2005, in 3520 IP, he had only 65.9 WAR in a similar # of IP to Mussina.
Career, per 162 games:
Glavine 3.9 pWAR,
Mussina 5.2 pWAR

by cookiedabookie on Mar 4, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

W/L record as a judgement for a pitcher on this site? Really??

His post-season K/9 is over 9. K/BB over 4. 3.42 era in 140 IP. His HR rates a little high, but I think it’s pretty hard to argue that he didn’t pitch awfully well in his numerous post-season appearances.

Also, I would feel pretty good about making the case that Moose was a better pitcher than Glavine (who doesn’t belong in the Clemens, Maddux, Johnson, Pedro grouping, btw). Mussina’s numbers are better in almost all the significant areas (again HR/9 is the exception, which is mitigated when you compare Turner Field to Camden Yards) despite spending his entire career in the AL East.

Finally, coming full circle, playoff ace Tom Glavine’s post-season W/L is 14-16-which sounds familiar for some reason.

by Just Regular 33 on Mar 4, 2011 12:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Funnily enough, he was so inconsistent in October that his postseason W/L record is probably just as instructive as his postseason ERA. Only 13 of his 23 postseason starts were quality starts, and he failed to get out of the fifth inning in five of them. At times, he was utterly dominant, as in the 1997 postseason, when he allowed a grand total of four runs in four starts. But at times he was lost, as in 2005, when the Angels scored five runs and knocked him out in the third inning.

He pitched awfully well in some of his numerous post-season appearances. In others, he was just awful.

sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew

by alexwithclass on Mar 4, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Mike Mussina is a jerk

I recall several years ago here in Toronto when the Blue Jays were honoring a broadcasting legend who passed away due to illness. The start of the game was delayed due to this ceremony and Mike Mussina was reportedly bitching an complaining about it. I realize this doesn’t mean anything when it comes to his career performance or HOF chances, but for me, it gave me a bad impression of him and I think he is an asshole.

The Bad Guy

Be sure to watch CHUCK Monday nights at 8pm on NBC!!!

by Dewey Finn on Mar 3, 2011 8:20 PM EST reply actions  

yeah

Yeah, i understand your point. However, I’d say that a, um, large percentage of professional athletes I’ve been exposed to fail the “douche/jerk” test, lol.

by John Sickels on Mar 3, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

As a Jays fan I cannot stand the prick. This is the same guy who tried to show up Cito Gaston by intentional warming up in Baltimore during the All-star game, even though he knew he was not going in the game. As a cancer survivor, I was truly disgusted at the way he treated a REAL HOF Tom Cheek, when he bitched about the delay.

Big Sexy!

by King Billy Royal on Mar 3, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Absolutely one of my least favourite Players...

The All Star incident was bad enough – and I cared about it less and less as time went by – but his reported reaction to the Tom Cheek ceremony, sealed it for me. Yes, many ball players fail the humanity test in one way or another, but many are smart enough – or lucky enough I guess – to keep it under wraps…

by almantle on Mar 4, 2011 6:59 AM EST up reply actions  

I hear the same thing

I’m a sports writer. Though I never have come into contact with Mussina, a friend of mine covered the 1999 Orioles and said Mussina was the biggest prick out of a cast of all-star pricks. We’re talkin’ about Albert Belle, Will Clark, Scott Erickson. Even Ripken had become a miserable dude by that point.

Glad I didn’t cover that group.

"Most overrated prospect in the minors." -- Bravesin07 on Madison Bumgarner

by criminal type on Mar 4, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions  

erickson

Oh, Scott Erickson…here is my Scott Erickson prick story.

He’s walking towards the bullpen in Kansas City to begin his warmups. A young fan, maybe 8 years old, wearing a Twins hat and shirt, calls out, “Hey,Scott! I’m from South Dakota and you’re my favorite player!” Erickson turns, looks at the kid with daggers in his eyes, and says “So, what? I’m from California.”

by John Sickels on Mar 4, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't see the big deal with a pitcher...

throwing in the bullpen during the All Star break despite knowing he won’t be in there. It’s not like the All Star game is the last game of the year and guys have their own ways of preparing…

I’m sounding like a Mussina fanboy, but my guess is you’re a little overly butthurt by nothing.

Maybe the announcer thing is a big deal…I haven’t heard anything about it so I don’t know any details…I do know that most starting pitchers would be pissed off if they’re forced to cool down after warming up….only to warm up and pitch again later.

by SenorGato on Mar 4, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

The Allstar game was in Baltimore

And he did it in full view of all the fans who then proceeded to boo the shit out of Cito.

Big Sexy!

by King Billy Royal on Mar 4, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Still not seeing the big deal...

Perhaps I’m just being ignorant. I’m not even sure he’s the first or last starting pitcher to do that…Also, why wouldn’t Cito pitch him? Had he just pitched?

by SenorGato on Mar 4, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

because Cito is a world-class jackass

I’ve never heard someone actually trying to defend his horseshit before; it’s kind of amazing.

Gaston’s excuse was that he was saving Mussina — you know, the best pitcher on the team hosting the ASG — for extra innings. Mussina claims to this day (and I believe him) that Cito told him to warm up.

by AndrewTorrez on Mar 4, 2011 11:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Cito is definitely not a world-class jerk

The guy is a class act and has always been considered a very level headed guy.

Big Sexy

Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter @KBRandDewey

by King Billy Royal on Mar 5, 2011 12:33 AM EST up reply actions  

By most in baseball

What is this horrible thing Cito has done?

Big Sexy

Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey

by King Billy Royal on Mar 5, 2011 2:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Besides Cal, Mussina is the only Oriole to make the All Star Roster

The entire event is a celebration of Baltimore. The fans just want to see Moose pitch.

Cito chooses that Mussina will be the only player on the roster not to see any gametime.

by snotboogie on Mar 6, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL

Making one of the youngest pitchers on the team sit, makes him an asshole, yet Mussina disrespecting a man who died of brain cancer doesn’t make him an asshole? Nice try pal.

Big Sexy

Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey

by King Billy Royal on Mar 6, 2011 9:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow. you are so unbelievably wrong.

but y’know its the internet, so stick to your guns. I guess that is what its here for.

Before pressing reply just take one minute to actually think about this. It is not LOL. and it is not just an opportunity to grasp around for excuses. This is the fact:
The city has been ramping up for the All-Star game for years. They have essentially one deserving player on the team. Cito chooses not to play him. In fact, it is the only player who does not play.

And I am not arguing whether Mussina is an ass or not. Just definitively explaining why Cito is.

by snotboogie on Mar 7, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

I interviewed Mussina in '98

and he was incredibly polite to, and engaging with, a young writer. As a fan, he was almost always engaging and available — particularly for a superstar. So I think you’re reading way too much into a single incident here.

FWIW, screwing with a game-day-starter’s warmups can be physically painful.

by AndrewTorrez on Mar 4, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Brain Cancer can also be physically painful

Mussina is a piece of shit who shouldn’t show his face around Toronto any time soon.

Big Sexy!

by King Billy Royal on Mar 4, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Lol

Here’s hoping he shows up with a parade in Toronto by noon today.

by SenorGato on Mar 4, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

We feel the same way about Cito Gaston

in Baltimore… and I’m not even an O’s fan any more. Guess who’s going to the Hall of Fame?

by AndrewTorrez on Mar 4, 2011 11:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Cito got 2 rings

How many did the Moose get?

Big Sexy

Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter @KBRandDewey

by King Billy Royal on Mar 5, 2011 12:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Exaclty
So I think you’re reading way too much into a single incident here

by Yankees10 on Mar 4, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

check out those IP totals - they're going to blow out his arm!

One of the fun things of these career retros of prospects from the 80s and 90s is to note the huge change in pitcher workloads.

Mussina tossed 149 IP in college. I think that in and of itself is high. I don’t follow college ball, isn’t ~125 more the norm? Anyway, now a days an elite college pitcher a) wouldn’t sign until the end of summer or b) would likely be shut down or used very lightly. Mussina was pushed to AA and tossed another 42 IP for a season total of 191. At age 21!

His next year was 122 IP in AAA followed by another 88 in the majors for a first full pro season total of 210!

Just think how good his career would have been if he was handled “right”? ;)

by philly on Mar 3, 2011 11:19 PM EST reply actions  

I don't see how he's not a HOFer

11 years of 5 or more WAR. Never won a CY, but placed in the voting 9 times. 19th all-time in strikeouts.

Could have made it easier for himself if he’d stretched it out for a couple more years to get to 300 wins like Tom Glavine (who’s a very similar pitcher and also a lock), but he decided to retire on top. I think the voters will see it that way, although he won’t be a first-ballot guy.

by psiogen on Mar 4, 2011 4:47 PM EST reply actions  

Sutton/Blyleven

Mussina might be like those two, in that he feels a bit like a Hall Of The Very Good rather than an all-timer, but his numbers are more persuasive.

by FlipYrWhig on Mar 4, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions  

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