Best player to not get a shot- past 10 years?
by ScottAZ on Mar 29, 2011 6:04 PM EDT
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PrintI'm involved in high school coaching/scouting and I know there are many of you on here that do the same. In today's baseball world of technology there are very few players that "fall through the cracks" and get no chance at the next level that are deserving. However, there are some. I'm not talking about Toe Nash types that blow their chance, but kids that never even get their foot in the door.
I'm sure folks on here could name some, probably many that don't because they opted to play another sport instead. One comes to my mind, Kelvin Garner. Garner a 6'7", 250 pound pitcher that threw 90 mph as an 8th grader and was 93-95 at 17. Baseball America had him one of the top 100 high school prospects in the 2006 class and all the scouting services had him as an elite prospect and a probable top 3 round pick. Then...... nothing.
He was never drafted and far as I can tell, never played college ball. I watched the kid play at showcases and he was a manchild. He was raw, but I thought I was watching the teenage version of Lee Smith when I saw him.
Who else out there fits this mold
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This was exactly who came to mind when I saw the title of this post
I guess you could say that’s a +1.
I just don't think there is such a thing
No question players get blocked, rushed or mismanaged. But if a player has even a little talent they get a fair shot to make it. The only exception to this is behavioral/drug guys, but you ruled them out.
What you are talking about is guys that just didn’t progress to match their hype. We see this more in college basketball and football, five star prospect who come into college with tons of hype and just do nothing. Sometimes from lack of effort, sometimes from a lack of talent, but its not that they never got a shot, its just that they never capitalized on the chance they had.
I disagree
Sports are fraternities. You can have good talent at lower levels (e.g., high school) and not get noticed if you don’t fit in well or, for whatever reason, don’t get along with the coaches well enough to get that PT, or have coaches that aren’t informed enough to get you that extra bit over the hump.
How many guys that throw 85 might throw 9o if they had a HS coach that knew enough about mechanics? Probably plenty.
In college ball (DIII, admittedly), we had a guy show up as a freshman with long hair and a Jesus beard. (Not as in a Montero, but as in the original Jesus.) . He seemed like a perfectly decent guy, but was cut in spring training. The next year, after a full year layoff of drinking beer and eating nachos (read: not improving his game), he showed up clean shaven with a crew cut, and was our opening day starter. Except for the lack of hair and a few extra pounds of fat, he was the same guy as the previous year. And he started the next three years.
So yeah, coaches can have a lot to do with a player’s chances to get noticed, and coaches, just like players, come with their own attitude problems.
angering coaches
To truly be invisible as a talented amateur, you’d probably have to cross more than one set of coaches — high school, college, AAU, etc. And if you can’t meet that minimal standard of “fitting in,” the odds are against you not just in baseball but in life.
As for things like bad coaching — that’s not what we’re talking about, I don’t think. How many guys who “could have” been something can dance on the head of a pin?
Hmmmm.....
I think the post I was responding to asserted that even if a player has a little talent, they’ll get a fair shot. And I disagree with that. I think your comment about the minimal standard being “fitting in” underscores my point – if you must fit in to get a shot, then no, a little bit of talent might not be enough…you’ve also got to fit in. That’s different from paying your dues, working hard, etc.
And I definitely disagree that if you can’t do that on a ball team, the odds are against you in life. I played ball with plenty of guys who ultimately didn’t fit the mold, but have gone on to do great things and/or be terrific, well-accepted people.
Kelvin Garner
http://www.perfectgame.org/players/playerprofile.aspx?ID=19106
As you can see from the chronological scouting reports he had injury problems that caused him to miss time and lose his stuff. It appears he wasn’t drafted because of this.
I remember a huge guy
that went to Stanford and was a tight end there from 1999-2001. I thought he would be a 5 tool guy or a very good pitcher with the tools he had. His name was Darin Naatjes. He was 6’9 and 240 but he never did much in pro ball. I would guess injuries cost him his career but I never heard.
by Matt Garrioch on Mar 30, 2011 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
There are PLENTY
Russell Branyan comes to mind.
He finally got a chance to play full-time when he was 32 and he was very good. I think If a team would have just believed in him, despite the strikouts, early in his career he would have had a lot different looking career.
"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson
Branyon
He illustrates my point perfectly. He missed most of 98, hit .200 in 1999 and then had 220, 361 and 435 PAs the next three seasons. Just because he didn’t capitalize on that opportunity doesn’t mean he didnt get a shot, in fact, he probably got more shots then most.
Right
I do think you are right, for the most part, in the case of high school or collegiate talent.
I think guys get backed up in the minors or less chances based on what KIND of player they are (lots of ks for instance) or what kind of body they have.
Branyan was a productive player from 2000-2002 and stopped getting playing time when he slumped in 2003. In fact hes been a productive hitter most of the time he has played If one doesnt just focus on his batting average or his strikouts. Perhaps he is the best example of guys who never got a shot but, nevertheless, If he was just left alone since 1999 you’d be looking at close to 400 bombs and a decent chance hed improve on his .330 OBP and his .490 slugging with less intermitant playing time.
My point is that Branyan got lots of chances because he was actually GOOD and ,some team thought he was failing when that is just the kind of hitter he is. He’s going to run hot and cold but, given a whole season, he’s productive.
There are plenty of guys labeled AAA players who could have had big league careers. At the bottom of major league rosters sometimes you need to catch a break or two, because the talent difference isnt as great as you may think.
"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson
MATT STAIRS
MATT STAIRS
To Infinity. And BEYOND!!!
by YunelTheLazyLatino on Mar 30, 2011 8:24 PM EDT reply actions
Stairs has played in 18 MLB seasons and is still playing at the age of 43, having just made the Nats 25 man roster
I think its fair to say he “got a shot.”
That’s a pretty…ugly… name there, too.
Missing the point?
I think the original poster was after guys who never made it to pro ball, much less the majors. Guys like Russell the Muscle, Stair or even Petagine aren’t anything like what he’s talking about.
The closest I can think of is a guy like Miers Quigley. Big lefty pitcher with good raw stuff when he was an AFLAC pick in high school (I think the 2004 game?). He was a semi-flier midround pick of the Cards out of high school, but wound up going to Bama, where he just never put it together. The Twins drafted him after his junior year, but he didn’t sign and then went back and finished out his career. His college performance wasn’t good enough to get another chance, but I wonder if he’d gotten into a system, he might have done something…
Cal Pickering.
I thought he was capable of a handful of seasons similar to Branyan’s 2009 if given the opportunity, but KC kept shuffling him around in favor of the immortal Ken Harvey.
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