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Post-Hype Analysis: Matt Wieters

Catcher Matt Wieters of the Baltimore Orioles (Photo by J. Meric/Getty Images)

Post-Hype Analysis: Matt Wieters

One of the most frequent questions I get via email: "what do you think of Matt Wieters?"

Star-divide

Baltimore Orioles catcher Matt Wieters was the recipient of enormous hype two years ago. Some of that hype went pretty overboard, and indeed I was guilty of that myself, referring to Wieters as "Joe Mauer with 30-homer power" or "Mike Piazza with a much better glove." It looks stupid right now, but it made sense at the time. Wieters was a very good defensive catcher with a career minor league line of .343/.438/.576, showing loads of power, power, strong plate discipline, without excessive strikeouts. The scouting reports were great and the statistics were virtually flawless. There was no reason to think he wouldn't develop into a superstar.    

But so far that's not how things have turned out. He hit .288/.340/.412 in 2009 (OPS+96), but just .249/.319/.377 (OPS+89) last year. His career line stands at .266/.328/.393 in 887 plate appearances. He might have hit in some poor luck last year with just a .287 BABIP. On the positive side, his defense (after some rough patches in '09) improved last year, keeping his WAR value safely positive at 2.3.

His career WAR so far is 3.8. Basically, if you trust WAR anyway, Wieters has still been a good player as catchers go, safely above replacement level anyway. That's nice, but it is a far cry from a guy expected to be a cross between Johnny Bench, Roy Hobbs, Batman, and Chuck Norris.

His Sim Scores through age 24 aren't especially encouraging. The top ten are Kurt Suzuki, Mike Sweeney, Jerry Moses, Joe Azcue, Russ Nixon, Jesus Flores, Thurmon Munson, Nig Clarke (early 20th century guy, not really comparable), Ramon Hernandez, and Del Rice.

Sweeney turned into an excellent hitter, but only after he switched positions. Suzuki has been solid, but of course we don't know what his career will look like in the long run. Munson was a fine, fine player until his unfortunate demise, but not a Hall of Fame type. Ramon Hernandez has been very solid and I think he's been an underrated player, but again, not a superstar. Moses, Azcue, Nixon, Rice...all had long careers as catchers but none of them were stars.

If the historical precedents mean anything, there's still a chance that Wieters will live up to the offensive potential he showed in the minors (the Sweeney outcome), but it is not the most likely outcome. We should be happy if he turns into an above-average, very good, solid player along the lines of Munson or Hernandez. But the most likely outcome is an unspectacular, if long, career. Baseball Prospectus Comparables are a lot more optimistic: Ryan Doumit, Chipper Jones, Eddie Murray, Cal Ripken, and Mark Teixeria show up as the top five comps, although only Doumit is a catcher.

Of course, the historical precedents might not mean anything, and there are all kinds of limitations with using Sim Scores and BP comps in this manner, especially for a guy with just two years under his belt. My personal take is that Wieters is still going to have a long career as an above average player. At this point I doubt he'll hit like Sweeney did unless he switches positions, but overall I think he will turn out somewhere between Munson (career WAR 44.4) and Hernandez (career WAR 26.4).

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I have read that his swing is different now

I have read in numerous sources that he has changed his swing and can no longer get around on a good fastball. Hopefully they get him back to basics as this appears to be a very important season in regards to Matt’s future.

Big Sexy

Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey

by King Billy Royal on Mar 29, 2011 12:52 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

His swing is so much slower than it was in the minors. It is striking.

by jaroche6 on Mar 29, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

keep reading

that scouts are calling his swing “slow” through the zone and not nearly what it was 4 years ago.

i hope he figures it out, as he’s still young and capable of putting together a MASSIVE career.

by apoxonbothyourhouses on Mar 30, 2011 5:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

So glad the Pirates drafted Moskos over him

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Any statement beginning with the words 'In truth' is almost always a lie." Mordred Deschain
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Mar 29, 2011 12:57 PM EDT reply actions  

no you're not

Wieters sold (and will still sell) tickets because of his hype, whether he turns out to be a superstar or not.

by rmarx on Mar 29, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

im pretty sure

youre missing some sarcasm above.

by benzalman on Mar 29, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh yeah

That was as sardonic as it comes.

I think Matt Wieters will still be a very good player. Somewhere along the line (due both to rampant hype/ outlandish minor league #s) his outlook changed in the eyes of folks from ‘Jason Varitek II’ to ‘Switch hitting Joe Mauer with pop’ but that isn’t his fault really. He’s far from a finished product.

by Matt0330 on Mar 29, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Superstar catchers

maybe the most rare commodity in baseball. There are quite a few hot shot catching prospects very high in everyone’s top rankings right now. I wonder how many of them will bust or end up just so-so players, and how many will stick at catcher.

I think Wieters will still be a very solid player, and, given the state of catching in the major leagues right now, a well above average catcher.

Nelson Cruz - 2011 MVP

by t ball on Mar 29, 2011 1:43 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd happily take him off the Orioles hands if they weren't satisfied.

Even if he never reaches superstar status, if he can play good defense behind the plate and provide league-average offense, that makes him a rare commodity. I would expect OPS+ of around 100 every year with 2-3 years where he puts up All-Star numbers.

by Kenneth Arthur on Mar 29, 2011 1:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Don't have the analysis to back me up at the moment...

But I’m fairly sure I read somewhere that catchers take the longest of all position players to develop consistent offensive performances at the major league level. Probably has something to do with them being the most important member of the defense, so they focus on that more than the hitting. It would also explain why the best offensive catchers are also usually perceived to be bad defensively.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Mar 29, 2011 3:07 PM EDT reply actions  

I remembered this quote

from a fangraphs blurb on Yorvit Torrealba and other catchers last fall:

Padres’ bench coach, the legendary Ted Simmons, holds the philosophy that it takes 500 games (or 1,500 at-bats) to know what you have in a catcher. Assuming Simmons: 1) has some say, and 2) knows what he’s talking about, it wouldn’t be a shock if Torrealba returns.

Nelson Cruz - 2011 MVP

by t ball on Mar 29, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

As of right now...

..he is already a pretty solid defensive catcher and can throw out runners pretty well (with some potential to improve). Under today’s trend of returning to a pitching-and-defense-first league, he’s already a majorleaguer.

That said, I don’t think anyone can say that his bat has settled into what will be his career-style yet. It’s only been 2 years, not even two full seasons (1.76 seasons to be more exact). When Joe Mauer was at a similar point in his career, he had shown a good eye, doubles power, and strong avg skills, but short of the star levels he was projected to be. Mauer had his breakout year, but has since been hampered by injuries. Wieters is still obviously learning, and, I would argue that he’s playing in a tougher division, facing much tougher rotations that feature quite a few double Aces offerings.

by basemonkey on Mar 29, 2011 4:57 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm not making excuses for Wieters...

…I am just saying that, the truth lies in exactly nothing we impatient Internet-charged comentators want to hear, that is, we must still wait and see.

It’s entirely possible Wieters more or less continues as is for the next couple seasons. If so, I’d be the first in line to call him a “bust.” But, it’s also possible that he does enjoy some balancing out of offensive improvement too, perhaps a full-blown MLB breakout season.

by basemonkey on Mar 29, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mauer is a freak of nature

Lance Berkman= Awesome, CJ Wilson= Jack@$$
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by mathisrocks5 on Mar 29, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

really?

i mean, I like Mauer, but in 20 years, who will be the BETTER overall catcher at the end of their careers: Mauer or McCann?

Right now, it’s obviously Mauer. But what happens in the next 5-7 years?

by apoxonbothyourhouses on Mar 30, 2011 5:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

It isn’t really fair to compare guys to Mauer.

Big Sexy

Follow KBR and Dewey on Twitter! @KBRandDewey

by King Billy Royal on Mar 29, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

And it REALLY isn’t fair to Cubs fans to compare Prior to Mauer.

/burn

sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew

by alexwithclass on Mar 30, 2011 2:05 PM EDT reply actions  

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