Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Trent Richardson Interviews Fellow Brown Brandon Weeden

daveh33's Top 125 Prospect List for 2011

 

 


I approach the list as a GM approaching a draft. "Take the best player available". This list is more "value-based" than anything else. ie- I am looking for Wins. [WAR]. But I do believe in balance, so many factors are considered as I rank a prospect : ARL, upside, ceiling, floor, physical ability, potential physical growth or decline, positional strength/scarcity, swings, throwing motions, plate discipline, scouting reports. All of these factors are considered, and then I start to compile. I have not counted, but I would guess that I spent around 40 hours on this list. Not all at once, but over the past two months. I liken the process to panning for gold. I sit on the edge of the prospect river and I dip my pan into the river and grab a clump of dirt and shake it down until it settles.

stats are taken from firstinning.com, and I probably won't list anything under 100 PA or 40 IP [SP], 15 IP [RP].

I stopped listing stats after the top 50.

I gather most of my information from watching video, reading scouting reports, analyzing stats... and also partaking of the opinions of John Sickels, Jim Callis, John Manuel, Keith Law, Frank Piliere, Alex Eisenberg, Mike Newman, and many of the fine members of this site.

I added some quick comments on the top 125, and on a few of the Honorable Mentions.

Star-divide

1. Bryce Harper -OF, WAS

This is the once-in-a-generation bat that I cannot pass up. He is too strong, too much of a physical specimen; and he has the fire. The desire that you want to see in a young athlete. He has it in spades.

2. Wil Myers -OF, KC

.289/.408/.500 in 294 PA, .397 wOBA, .211 ISOP midwest /// .343/.450/.507 in 249 PA, .420 wOBA, .164 ISOP carolina

This is my favorite swing in the minors right now. It has intent. It's beautiful. I am more confident in Wil's bat than I am in any other prospect. Bryce gets the slight nod for pure overall ceiling/ability.

3. Mike Trout -OF, LAA

.361/.452/.526 in 365 PA, .425 wOBA, .165 ISOP, midwest /// .294/.369/.416 in 233 PA, .343 wOBA, .122 ISO california

Another kid who looks to be on a mission. I am less convinced in his power potential as some may be, but I do recognize the tantalizing all-around game.

4. Domonic Brown -OF, PHI

.316/.390/.603 in 269 PA, .412 wOBA, .287 ISOP eastern /// .346/.390/.561 in 118 PA, .405 wOBA, .215 ISOP int'l

The model of an A-grade right-field prospect. Could possibly be #1 on this list if the three names above him were not so strong. I like his swing more than most.

5. Mike Moustakas -3B, KC

.347/.413/.687 in 298 PA, .433 wOBA, .340 ISOP, texas /// .293/.314/.564 in 236 PA, .363 wOBA, .271 ISOP, pacific

His defensive ability is under-rated. I believe he will stick at 3rd barring injury or significant weight-room additions. Not so confident he will bat above .300 in MLB, but I do think he has a better chance than anyone [save Harper] at being a 40-HR plus bat in his prime.

6. Julio Teheran -RHP, ATL

29.2K%, 6.5BB%, 39.1 IP, 1.14 ERA .83 WHIP, 2.70 FIP, south atlantic /// 29.2, 5.0, 63.1 IP, 2.98/1.08/3.11, fsl /// 23.5, 10.5, 40 IP, 3.38/1.15/3.47, southern

I love the stuff. He has tremendous life on all his pitches that I've seen, and he is only going to get better at pitching to competition.

7. Dustin Ackley -2B, SEA

.263/.389/.384 in 350 PA, .353 wOBA, .121 ISO southern /// .274/.338/.439 in 237 PA, .335 wOBA, .165 ISOP pacific

OBP-machine. People underestimate the value of a MIFer who can get on base at a .400 clip, and I struggle to think of a recent prospect who I am more confident will do so at the MLB level. Numbers are a bit low due to learning 2B.

8. Matt Moore -LHP, TB

34.8K%, 10.2 BB%, 144.2 IP, 3.36 ERA, 1.17 WHIP, 2.61 FIP, fsl

I place strong value on pure stuff and a pitcher's ability to dominate a batter without the reliance on defense. He isn't the most athletic pitcher nor does he possess the best command, but his K% gets under-rated every year. His high leg kick may be the cause of some of his mistakes, but he repeats his release-point very well and his curve and fb look the same coming out of his hand. when he is on, he is the best lefty pitcher in the minors, and he was on for the majority of 2010. Lefties always take longer to harness control of excellent stuff, and I'm confident he will do just that.

9. Jeremy Hellickson -RHP, TB

25.5K%, 7.2BB%, 117.2 IP, 2.45 ERA, 1.17 WHIP, 2.80 FIP, international

Helly possibly possesses the best poise in MiLB, but not the best stuff. The only reason I place Teheran and Moore higher is because I see true T-O-R potential in them, and I see Helly as more of a strong #2.

10. Eric Hosmer -1B, KC

.350/.427/.538 in 370 PA, .406 wOBA, .188 ISOP fsl /// .303/.355/.605 in 211 PA, .396 wOBA, .302 ISOP texas

So it was the eyes. Now that he can see the ball, he is the best 1b-spect in the game. Beautiful lefty-stroke and blossoming power. This may be seen as a lower-ranking, but its only because of the demands of the 1B bat.

11. Shelby Miller -RHP, STL

31.9K%, 7.5BB%, 104.1 IP, 3.62 ERA, 1.24 WHIP, 2.87 FIP, midwest

Combines true #1 potential with a prototypical SP frame. Only youth and the injury nexus hold him back right now.

12. Jesus Montero -C/DH, NYY

Stats: .286/.349/.514 in 501 PA, 9.0/18.2 bb/k%, .366 wOBA, .228 ISOP international

Will he catch? I'm not so sure. Catchers are not the most svelt-looking, but I believe their athleticism is under-rated, much like that of an NFL lineman. I'm not sold on Montero's athleticism or his defensive ability, and I think his ceiling may be closer to Edgar Martinez than Piazza. this is why he is not top 10.

13. Aroldis Chapman -LHP, CIN

30.3%, 12.6%, 95.2 IP, 3.57 ERA, 1.34 WHIP, 3.39 FIP, international

Possibly the hardest player to rank this year. His fastball is an 80, but I am unsure of his other pitches. I maintain the idea that he will further develop them and eventually become a starter. Otherwise he would rank much lower, as bullpen arms simply don't give near as much value as SP.

14. Freddie Freeman -1B, ATL

Stats: .320/.378/.522 in 518 PA, 8.3/16.2 bb/k%, .382 wOBA, .202 ISOP international

The power will come. Tremendous poise and patience and consistently strong ARL is probably the cause for his under-rated overall package.

15. Zach Britton -LHP, BAL

18.7k, 7.7bb, 87 IP, 2.28 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, 3.47 FIPm eastern /// 19.9, 8.2, 66.i IP, 2.99 ERA, 1.29 WHIP, 3.25 FIP int'l

Possibly my favorite of the young arms in Baltimore. I love his stuff, and the boring-down action on his fb. He would likely be top 10 if not for the strength of the current group.

16. Manny Machado -SS, BAL

He's got the body and the potential bat to be the next fantasy-star SS. Really excited to see him in full-season ball.

17. Mike Minor -LHP, ATL

30.3k, 9.4b, 87 IP, 3.93 ERA, 1.24 WHIP, 3.26 FIP, southern /// brief stop AAA /// 23.2k, 5.9b, 40.2 ip 5.97,1.57, 3.8,mlb

I saw him play in low-A ball in 2009. He looked completely different in 2010. Kudos to the Braves' staff as his stuff has drastically improved.

18. Jameson Taillon -RHP, PIT

Like Machado, everything you want to see in a teenager at his position. Huge frame and incredible stuff/upside.

19. Michael Pineda -RHP, SEA

24.7k, 5.4b, 77IP, 2.22 ERA, 1.09 WHIP, 2.33 FIP, southern /// 29.2k, 6.5b, 62.1 IP, 4.76 era, 1.13 whip, 3.99, pacific

I like the potential/movement on the pitches, but not sold on his motion/body as he throws. He tends to plant a bit early and get too arm-y.

20. Martin Perez -LHP, TEX

21.9k, 10.8b, 99.2 IP, 5.96 era, 1.66 whip, 4.26 fip, texas

Another difficult ranking. Struggled a bit, but ARL and potential didn't waver.

21. Mike Montgomery -LHP, KC

18.8k, 10.2b, 59.2 IP, 3.47 era, 1.37 whip, 3.99 fip, texas // brief stints in rookie and carolina leagues

Would likely rank just ahead of Britton if not for the arm trouble. I think he is healthy but there is some caution.

22. Kyle Drabek -RHP, TOR

19.9k, 10.3b, 162 ip, 2.94 era, 1.19 whip, 4.03 fip, eastern // brief mlb stint

Not sold on his mechanics, as sometimes he looks arm-y like Pineda. But when his stuff is on, its incredible. Dat Curve

23. Desmond Jennings -OF, TB

.278/.359/.393 in 457 PA, 10.3/14.7 bb/k%, .115 ISOP, .335 wOBA, international // mlb stint

Love his overall game except the future power potential. His swing is not conducive to it. Injuries nearly every season hamper his ranking a bit. Still should provide excellent OBP% and blazing speed.

24. Aaron Hicks -OF, MIN

.278/.398/.427 in 520 PA, 17.1/21.5 bb/k%, .149 ISOP, .366 wOBA, midwest

Still waiting on the breakout, but still admiring the patience and OBP% skill

25. John Lamb -LHP, KC

26.9k, 10.6b, 40ip, 1.58era, 1.07whp, 3.64fip, mid // 30.7k, 5.1b, 74.2 ip, 1.33 era, .97 whip, 1.91 fip, car // aa stop

Not as sold on his stuff as I am with Monty, but he took a tremendous leap this year, and could surprise even more.

26. Kyle Gibson -RHP, MIN

23.7k, 7.1b, 43.1ip, 1.87era, 1.03whp, 3.15fip, fsl // 19.8k, 5.7b, 93ip, 3.68era, 1.21whp, 3.25 fip, eastern // aaa stop

I am very confident he will be at least a solid #2/3 MLB pitcher. Unsure of his absolute ceiling.

27. Lonnie Chisenhall -3B, CLE

.276/.350/.447 in 520 PA, 9/14.6 bb/k%, .171 ISOP, .347 wOBA, eastern

He has an under-rated swing and floor. Great above-average potential at 3B.

28. Jacob Turner -RHP, DET

23.8k, 4.0b, 48ip, 3.38era, 1.10whp, 3.29 fip, midw // 20.2k, 5.6b, 61.1ip, 2.93era, 1.09whp, 3.42 fip, fsl

Doesn't miss as many bats as Miller, but I believe he could better in that regard.

29. Brett Lawrie -2B/3B/OF, TOR

.285/.345/.451 in 609 PA, 7.7/19.4 bb/k%, .166 ISOP, .343 wOBA, southern

Wasn't as high on him until I saw him in action at the Futures Game. His wrists are very strong, and he gets great whip on his bat-head. The potential move to 3rd is intriguing and definitely helps his value if he sticks there instead of the OF

30. Brandon Belt -1B, SF

.378/.489/.625, 331 PA, 17.5/15.1 bb/k, .247 ISOP, .470 wOBA, cal // .339/.415/.626 200 PA, .287 isop, .434 woba tex

Not as sold as others on his future power output, but I like his new swing. Just a notch below Freeman/Hosmer

31. Derek Norris -C, WAS

.235/.419/.419 in 399 PA, 22.3/23.6 bb/k, .184 ISOP, .378 wOBA, carolina

Consistently under-rated, and mostly because of injury. Once his power is fully back, he could post Santana-esque stats. Love how he maintained, and actually improved his excellent BB% even without both of his wrists.

32. Chris Sale -LHP, CHW

34.8k, 10.9b, 23.1 IP, 1.93era, 1.07 whp, 2.71 fip, mlb // brief stints in carolina and international

A funky-looking delivery, but perhaps it's his lanky-ness and long arms that make it look so. At first I thought he kind of short-armed on his delivery, but after watching more video of him, I am growing more confident in the motion.

33. Brett Jackson -OF, CHC

.316/.420/.517 312 PA, 13.8/20.2 bb/k, .201 ISOP, .404 wOBA, fsl // .276/.363/.461 267 PA, .185 ISOP, .356 wOBA, sth

A good bet to be a solid MLB CF'er, and I like his power upside more than most. eclipsing .200 isop in the fsl ain't easy.

34. Dee Gordon -SS, LAD

.275/.326/.354 in 611 PA, 6.5/14.6 bb/k, .079 ISOP, .303 wOBA, southern

Has got some of the best wheels and athleticism I've seen on a baseball diamond. still raw, still could be anything.

35. Chris Dwyer -LHP, KC

24.0k, 9.7b, 78.1ip, 3.10era, 1.37whp, 3.17fip, car // brief stint in texas lg.

Love the stuff; excellent movement... and I see the potential for him to move up into the top 10 next year.

36. Drew Pomeranz -LHP, CLE

A big lefty who could move quickly through the minors. Love the movement on the fb

37. Billy Hamilton -SS CIN

.318/.383/.456 in 316 PA, 48 SB, 9 CS, rookie league. [no stats on firstinning, these are from baseball-reference]

Faster than Gordon? He looks incredible. I don't think this is too high of a ranking, as he is the definition of a toolshed. Only needs time and experience.

38. Devin Mesoraco -C, CIN

.335/.414/.620, 181 PA, .285 ISOP, .434 wOBA, car // .289/.358/.583, 212 PA, .294 ISOP, .394 wOBA, sthrn / aaa stop

Big-time power and he gets on base at a decent clip. I think his upside is a slight notch below Norris, as he doesn't quite match the patience/BB%.

39. Chris Archer -RHP, TB

27.4k, 8.7b, 72.1ip, 2.86era, 1.10whp, 3.08fip, fla // 23.0k, 13.4b, 70ip, 1.80era, 1.24whp, 3.58fip, sthrn

A very athletic pitcher, and he gets great life on his stuff.

40. Danny Duffy -LHP, KC

25.6k, 5.6b, 39.2ip, 2.95 era, 1.18whp, 2.82fip, tex // brief stops in rookie and carolina

He's back. I don't think he has the pure stuff that Dwyer possesses, though he may be a slightly safer bet to be a SP.

41. Manny Banuelos -LHP, NYY

34.1k, 7.7b, 44.1ip, 2.23era, 1.17whp, 1.93 fip, fla // brief stops in rookie and aa eastern

He is on the smaller side, but the video I have seen of him is pretty impressive. He doesn't appear to be overexerting or throwing too hard at all.

42. Jurickson Profar -SS, TEX

.250/.317/.373 in 287 PA, 9.8/16 bb/k, .123 ISOP, .305 wOBA, short-season

Looks like Iglesias with slightly lesser defensive actions but a greater potential bat.

43. Randall Delgado -RHP, ATL

25.6k, 6.8b, 117.1ip, 2.76era, 1.03whp, 3.15fip, car // 22.1k, 10.5b, 43.2ip, 4.74era, 1.28whp, 3.55fip, sthrn

Underrated him last year. He continues to produce and he's surpassed Vizcaino in my opinion.

44. Jonathan Singleton -1B, PHI

.290/.393/.478 in 445 PA, 13.7/16.4 bb/k, .188 ISOP, .375 wOBA, south atl

I like the swing a whole lot. Very athletic actions for his body type. His second-half struggles are likely fatigue, otherwise he wouldn't have been top 50. Could be a monster.

45. Gary Sanchez -C, NYY

.347/.417/.587 in 139 PA, 8.6/20.9 bb/k, .240 ISOP, .423 wOBA, rookie // brief stop in short-season

I like the swing/power and the scouting reports, but I am admittedly cautious with younger catchers.

46. Grant Green -SS, OAK

.318/.361/.520 in 606 PA, 6.3/19.3 bb/k, .202 ISOP, .373 wOBA, cal

"Looks like a ballplayer." Yet he's a difficult one to rank. He could move off the position, and he might not hit enough. Interested to see him outside of the Cal league... as his power was likely a bit inflated because of it, and his BABIP was a bit high. Needs to increase his BB% as well.

47. Jason Kipnis -2B, CLE

.300/.384/.478 237 PA, .178 ISOP, .373 wOBA, car // .310/.382/.502 353 PA, 8.8/17.3 bb/k, .192isp .382wOBA, eastrn

Not sure on his ceiling, but he looks like a solid regular at the least, so his safe floor pushes him up a bit.

48. Jarrod Parker -RHP, ARI

Reports from instructs are 'thumps up'. Big year for him.

49. Tyler Matzek -LHP, COL

23.4k, 16.5b, 89.1ip, 2.92 era, 1.38 whp, 4.63 fip, sal

More cautious with him for sure, but I expect him to bounce back. Ceiling is maybe not as high as I thought a year ago.

50. Casey Kelly -RHP, SD

18.9k, 8.2b, 95ip, 5.31 era, 1.61 whp, 4.19 fip, eastern

Like his bendy pitch but I still struggle to see the easy TOR potential that would force me to rank him higher.

 

51. Nick Franklin -SS/2B, SEA

Not sure if he can sustain the OBP... if he can't handle SS and Ackley takes over 2B, then he could be trade bait. The power was nice, but I need to see how he handles higher levels before I am completely sold.

52. Trey McNutt -RHP, CHC

Nice SP frame, pure stuff/movement is not quite as good as Archer though. Potential 2/3 if he can get that change down, maybe a closer if he can't [agreeing with John on that].

53. Jordan Lyles -RHP, HOU

Strong #2/3 potential. I love his changeup. Could surprise people and anchor a staff, much like James Shields has done in Tampa.

54. Zack Wheeler -RHP, SF

Perhaps a cautious ranking, as I feel he could really make a jump next year if healthy.

55. Miguel Sano -1B/3B, MIN

I believe in the power, not sure on the body/defense.

56. Brody Colvin -RHP, PHI

Underrated, and I like his stuff/health a bit better than Cosart.

57. Zach Lee -RHP, LAD

Super athletic, and despite not devoting all his efforts to baseball in high school, he looks great on the mound. Could be top 15 prospect next year. Huge growth potential.

58. Jean Segura -2B/SS, LAA

Looks like a good prototypical lead-off hitter. Would crack top 50 if he could stick at SS.

59. Simon Castro -RHP, SD

Has soured on me a bit from a year ago. Not a big fan of his throwing motion, though it is deceptive. He plants too early and uses a lot of arm/shoulder.

60. Alex White -RHP, CLE

Good 2/3 ceiling, and with his GB%/stuff, I think he could be an excellent reliever as an absolute floor.

61. Wilmer Flores -SS/3B, NYM

I have seen this kid more than anyone else on the list, and he's still one of the most difficult to rank. Has a nice, quick swing, and I can see the power potential. He looks more athletic defensively than he's given credit for, but at the same time, I don't think he can handle SS at the MLB level.

62. Jerry Sands -OF, LAD

Big guy, but his swing is great. A safe bet to be a good MLB hitter, and at the least, the next Jonny Gomes.

63. Jarred Cosart -RHP, PHI

Injuries keep him out of the top 50. Probably a higher ceiling than Colvin.

64. Dellin Betances -RHP, NYY

Agree with Callis in that I am uncertain if he will be a SP. Maybe its his history that gives me caution. Big potential.

65. Anthony Ranaudo -RHP, BOS

Originally had him lower because he looked like a tall-and-fall kinda guy, but after watching more video, he grew on me. He is more athletic upon repeat viewings, and his velocity looks easy. Would be higher if I was convinced of full health.

66. Garret Richards -RHP, LAA

Great SP frame and good stuff. Need to see him do it at higher levels, but could shoot up lists next year.

67. Tyler Skaggs -LHP, ARI

I like the arsenal. Fantastic K% and GB%.

68. Drake Britton -LHP, BOS

Buying into the hype.

69. Josh Sale -OF, TB

Love the power potential, and his thick thighs will work to his advantage with that swing of his.

70. Jose Iglesias -SS, BOS

Is this a low ranking? He hasn't really done anything to drop, moreso just been passed up by more attractive offerings.

71. Yonder Alonso -1B/OF, CIN

A bit torn on Yonder. Not a huge fan of the bat, but he does have easy power, and he will be a MLB regular at the worst. he's mostly just a safe bat with a bit of upside, kind of like Billy Butler, but lesser.

72. Hak-Ju Lee -SS, TB

Everything you want to see in a young SS prospect, and I believe the bat will begin to produce some numbers.

73. Tony Sanchez -C, PIT

Needs to stay healthy before I put him top 50. Great potential though.

74. Garin Cecchini  -SS/3B, BOS

Dat Swing. I realize this is higher than anyone else will rank him. But I have a great feeling about him.

75. Matt Lipka -SS, ATL

All aboard this hype train. I love his swing a lot, as it reminds me of a shorter/compact Wil-Myers-swing. Potential to be the biggest steal of the draft.

76. Nick Weglarz -OF, CLE

Often overlooked, he is a big bat that will play anywhere, and he gets on base. Injuries keep him out of my top 50.

77. Chris Carter -1B/OF, OAK

Pretty confident in his power playing in MLB, otherwise he wouldn't be top 100.

78. Fabio Martinez-Mesa -RHP, LAA

I love his stuff, and I love his frame. If he can drop his BB%, then he could be a top 10 prospect real quick. Almost like a right-handed Matt Moore, just hasn't shown that he can sustain a decent BB% yet.

79. Aaron Sanchez -RHP, TOR

Very projectable like Cole, but with a more athletic stride. I like the mechanics a lot and the potential for increased velocity.

80. A.J. Cole -RHP, WAS

Looks very projectable, and I already like the velocity and downward-movement on his FB.

81. Nick Castellanos -3B, DET

Powerful swing for a teenage kid, gets great extension and the power potential could play way up if he sticks at 3B.

82. Jake Odorizzi -RHP, KC

KLaw instilled a bit of doubt in me over his offerings, but I am tempering Klaw's doubt with my own optimism.

83. Christian Yelich -1B/OF, FLA

Beautiful lefty swing, reminds me of Eric Chavez/Jeremy Hermida when they were drafted.

84. Wilin Rosario -C, COL

Cautious grade because of the type of injury. Worried about his mobility on the defensive end.

85. Arodys Vizcaino -RHP, ATL

Got to see him in-person, and came away mostly unimpressed, but it did turn out to be one of his worst games of the year, statistically. The FB got flat many times, and he gave up a lot of solid contact to a low-a club

86. Trayvon Robinson -OF, LAD

KLaw did make me a bit wary of his arm, so this may be seen as a cautious grade for his potential/upside.

87. Robbie Erlin -LHP, TEX

limited upside, but he knows how to pitch and the numbers are hard to ignore.

88. Kaleb Cowart -3B, LAA

Preferred him as a pitcher, but his swing isn't bad at all, and now that he's focusing on it, could improve.

89. Brett Eibner -OF, KC

I think he's underrated and gets lost in the KC shuffle. John has said he agrees with me. I like the swing and the power potential.

90. Chris Nelson -SS/2B/3B, COL

All he needs is consistent playing time, and he will be at least a league average IFer, with potential for more.

91. Andrew Oliver -LHP, DET

Looked good from the video I saw, and could settle in as a solid 2/3 if all goes well.

92. Asher Wojciechowski -RHP, TOR

Cautious grade because I hate shoulder injuries on pitchers. Under-rated stuff

93. Danny Espinosa -SS/2B, WAS

Not sure of his OB-ability, but the potential power for a MIFer is nice.

94. Reymond Fuentes -OF, SD

I love the swing, and though it isn't geared for power, I could see him bulking up and adding some as he matures. If he does, then he could really become great. Its cliche, but he does remind me of his cousin Carlos Beltran.

95. Stetson Allie -RHP, PIT

Looks like a future closer to me, but if he learns how to harness his stuff and maybe sacrifice a bit of speed for better command, then he might really take off.

96. Chad James -LHP, FLA

Inconsistent release/mechanics, but strong #2 potential.

97. Enny Romero -LHP, TB

Gets lost in the TB shuffle. Huge potential from a young LHP, and could shoot up lists next year.

98. Mike Foltynewicz  -RHP, HOU

A long way to go, but I love his stuff and arm action.

99. Nolan Arenado -3B, COL

Questionable OB-skills and not sure if he will stick at 3B. the power looks to be really good though.

100. Alex Wimmers -RHP, MIN

I agree with John in that his stuff looks to be under-rated, though I don't like him as much as John seems to.


101. Matt Davidson -3B/1B, ARI

Big potential power bat, and he has some OB-skills. defense is the question.

102. Zach Stewart -RHP, TOR

I recognize his multi-pitch arsenal is good enough for a SP, but its his BB% coupled with his age that holds him back. I think he should have figured it out by now.

103. Alex Colome -RHP, TB

I have slightly soured on him, and I'm not sure his upside is anything close to the TOR potential I believed he had last year.

104. Jaff Decker -OF, SD

A good bat, but his upside looks limited to me. Reminds me of Matt Stairs.

105. Travis D'Arnaud -C, TOR

Like Alex Eisenberg, I love his swing, and consider him the best Toronto C prospect, over Arencibia and Perez. only injury holds him back.

106. Rubby De La Rosa -RHP, LAD

Potential 2/3 with good GB rates.

107. Yasmani Grandal -C, CIN

Not too impressed with the swing or the potential bat. But has a chance to be a good regular/starting C.

108. Jared Mitchell -OF, CHW

Cautious grade, because he was considered raw for a college player, and speed is a big part of his game.

109. Andrew Brackman -RHP, NYY

Wasn't top 125 until I read Frankie P's report. Still unsure if he can make it as an SP, but I am paying attention to him now.

110. Tim Beckham -SS, TB

The reports of his body being "bad" are overblown. He still has quick wrists, and he was instructed to work on his defense in 2010. This is a cautious grade from me, but I would not be surprised if he vaulted up lists next year. And he will not be repeating the level, so he is right on schedule and will be young for AA.

111. Hank Conger -C, LAA

not confident he will stick defensively, and if he doesn't, then he's a 1B with not-enough-power.

112. Jake McGee -LHP, TB

I know the Rays try to extend the value of their players as much as possible, but I ultimately see him as a reliever.

113. Chris Withrow -RHP, LAD

the loss of velocity is worrying, but i expect him to bounce back.

114. Daniel Fields -OF, DET

Had a good year, especially considering his ARL and very limited pro experience. Don't agree with the Tigers' methods, but Fields held his own and displayed impressive BB%/patience at the plate.

115. Cesar Puello -OF, NYM

Love the quick wrists/ great bat speed.

116. Alex Torres -LHP, TB

Kind of in the same boat as Stewart, but in a reliever's body.

117. Craig Kimbrel -RHP, ATL

Wicked stuff, potentially excellent MLB closer.

118. J.P. Arencibia -C/DH, TOR

Huge power but will he catch?

119. Zach Cox -3B/2B, STL

I'd like him to make the move to 2B, and his bat will play better there.

120. Engel Beltre -OF, TEX

Nice overall package, but needs to increase BB% to become a leadoff type.

121. Drew Cumberland -SS, SD

Injuries de-railed what was becoming a nice breakout campaign. needs to increase his BB% though.

122. Anthony Rizzo -1B, SD

Solid power, but feels more like a league-average 1B than a potential star bat.

123. Aaron Crow -RHP, KC

Not sure what happened exactly.

124. Matt Dominguez -3B, FLA

I don't like his swing. He makes the list because I have to trust the scouting reports about his D.

125. Yorman Rodriguez -OF, CIN

I like the swing, but still a bit skeptical on the overall ceiling.


HM:

Luis Heredia -RHP, PIT --huge potential, and in year's past i might have ranked a player like him much higher

Michael Choice -OF, OAK -- the strikeouts and swing are worrying

Tanner Scheppers -RHP, TEX -- i don' know what happened, and at this point, his ceiling is only as a reliever

Christian Colon -SS, KC --not a big fan of the bat.

Christian Friedrich -LHP, COL

Starling Marte -OF, PIT

Peter Tago -RHP, COL

Carlos Perez -C, TOR

Tyler Chatwood -RHP, LAA -- not a big fan, but i do recognize his GB skills

Delino DeShields Jr. -2B, HOU

Scott Elbert -LHP, LAD

Juan Urbina -LHP, NYM -- huge potential but so far away

Drew Vettleson -OF, TB  -- beautiful swing.

Tyrell Jenkins -RHP, STL

Trevor May -RHP, PHI

Donovan Tate -OF, SD -- still athletic...

Liam Hendricks -RHP, MIN -- limited upside/stuff, but so far he's done well with what he's got

Brent Morel -3B, CHW 

Comment 228 comments  |  7 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Nice List!

I appreciate the effort and enjoyed looking it over. Well done!

by Leather Larceny on Feb 8, 2011 7:13 PM EST reply actions  

gracias.

I tried to make it more aesthetically pleasing this year

by daveh33 on Feb 8, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

a fun read

Wil Myers is my new porn.

Most hated man on Minor League Ball??? Nah.

Dewey and KBR are just.......too........sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!

The Wolfpac is looking for new soldiers! Change your logo to the black and red!!!

Visit www.faketeams.com & www.bullpenbanter.com for excellent fantasy & prospect analysis!!!

by Dewey Finn on Feb 8, 2011 7:32 PM EST reply actions  

thanks Dewey

and agreed. his swing is king. and I strongly favor the aesthetics of a lefty, normally. but Myers has got it.

by daveh33 on Feb 8, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

I just traded Adrian Gonzalez for him…..

by asyouwish33 on Feb 9, 2011 1:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Very agreed

Totally agreed on his swing. Traded for Myers in a full dynasty format… Obviously you can’t get full context without knowing my entire roster and the league dynamics, but I was loaded with front end pitching, and traded JZimm and Kyle Gibson for Chris Sale and Wil Myers. My outfield could be Heyward, Trout and Myers forever. Giggity.

by saltybiscuits on Feb 9, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

What exactly do you guys love about the swing?

It’s generally not considered a pretty swing that’s why I ask

twitter.com/!/socalsteve9

by SoCalSoxFan on Feb 9, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

agreed

barrel says in the zone for a longggg time, but the leg use is an issue.

by JD Sussman on Feb 9, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

i dont recall his leg use being awkward, but i will look at some video later

you are correct about the barrel though/ he makes consistently hard contact because of it, and as he matures and gets physically stronger, he’s going to be a murderer.

by daveh33 on Feb 9, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

re

His hip turn does a great job of hiding his inefficient lower half. I think you’ll quickly notice a lack of leverage and drive from his hind leg.

by JD Sussman on Feb 9, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, lower half is the issue

I do like his swing in general, but he still needs to make some tweaks. Its his fantastic approach at the plate that really excites me.

by alskor on Feb 9, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

In terms of long term adjustments, I don’t think its a big deal. Its not like a hitch or a swing plane issue.

by JD Sussman on Feb 9, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

he

gets his hips involved, but it just doesn’t look like a “natural” swing. . .don’t get me wrong, it works for him, and he can bash, I just wouldn’t call the swing beautiful. (like Adrian Gonzalez’s :)

twitter.com/!/socalsteve9

by SoCalSoxFan on Feb 9, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

i think i mentioned it somewhere, maybe not this thread,

that its not necessarily the aesthetics of Myers’ swing, but the “intent” [which is the word i used in the comments]. he gets so much speed on his bat-head, and it stays in the zone for a long time, which to a baseball geek like myself, is “beautiful”

by daveh33 on Feb 9, 2011 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

but up top you said. .

just messin,. . . .he can swing with one arm for all I care. . . as long as he squares up the ball and rakes

twitter.com/!/socalsteve9

by SoCalSoxFan on Feb 9, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I like the list overalll...

but I find it funny that you havve Derek Norris ranked higher than Tony Sanchez when they put up similar numbers(actually Sanchez had better ones by a good amount) while both were in High A and Norris has an much more common injury that can have a big effect on his game long term while Sanchez suffers a freak injury that will likely never occur again. Sanchez is also known to havve better defense. This doesn’t really bother me much. I am just curious:why do you have them ranked as so? Every other person does too for some reason though. It confuses me to no end. lol

ETHAN MARTIN!!!!

by joegonzo on Feb 8, 2011 7:45 PM EST reply actions  

I wouldn't reall say they are that much above....

Tony Sanchez has put up good OBP numbers over his minor league career so far. I will admit Norris does have better OBP-skills, but not by much. Same thing with power. I can’t see Norris hitting more than 25 home runs in his career ever. I see Sanchez as having 15-20 home run power. That would put them pretty close. I also think Sanchez has better contact skills and defense. Coming into the draft he was compared to Yadier Molina. Molina has icredinle defense. I wouldn’t say it is at that level, but it is not far off. He could eventually get to Molina’s level after a few more years though. Having a catcher with above average power(for a catcher), good contact skills, decent OBP-skills, and gold glove caliber defense is very valuable. I respect your ranking, I would just like for more people to realise how good Sanchez is. He is a top 3 minor league catcher. i have no doubt about this.

ETHAN MARTIN!!!!

by joegonzo on Feb 8, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Norris was keeping up with Mike Stanton for a couple months are far as ISOP is concerned

in the SAL in 2009. no other prospect was even close.

he admitted to fatigue in the later months of 2009, and it was obvious in his numbers.

then this year he had the wrist injury.

he reminds me a lot of Cody Ross at the plate. Cody Ross at catcher is tremendously valuable. less-so if he’s moving to 1B of course, but I feel Norris’ upside is considerably higher than where Ross is at. That’s just a decent comp that I see, aesthetically as well as numerically, [regarding power].

by daveh33 on Feb 8, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Awesome Job Daveh!!

I tend to like your approach of being an upside whore when it comes to prospects for fantasy purposes. Sure you may miss quite a bit, but when a guy hits his upside you have a stud on your team. Great work.

Dewey and KBR are just.......too........sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!

The Wolfpac is looking for new soldiers! Change your logo to the black and red!!!

by King Billy Royal on Feb 8, 2011 8:05 PM EST reply actions  

thanks Billy

balance in all things.

I ranked a few “lower” upside pitchers pretty highly, [britton, minor, kyle gibson, etc], and and I probably like a few higher risk guys [fabio martinez] more than most experts, but most of the guys I rank “out of place” in the high category, I feel fairly confident about.

by daveh33 on Feb 8, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

One more thing....

I think Tim Beckham is terrible at this point. He is not in my top 200 overall. I actually really like your list compared to most as I look more into it though. Good job.

ETHAN MARTIN!!!!

by joegonzo on Feb 8, 2011 8:07 PM EST reply actions  

haha, thats fair

i realize the risk of putting him there, but I think I actually follow him more closely than many of the experts do, and I feel 110 is a pretty fair ranking. not too high, but admittedly higher than most.

by daveh33 on Feb 8, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

nice job Dave

love the Sands ranking.

Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.sbnation.com
www.minorleagueball.com

by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 8, 2011 8:47 PM EST reply actions  

This is the best list I've seen so far

well done, love the thoroughness. I’m a fan of the Beckham chance. I wouldn’t draft him, but I think he does have interesting rebound potential. Only time will tell.

The 2008 Rogelio Moret League Fantasy Baseball Champions!

by The Congo Hammer on Feb 8, 2011 9:34 PM EST reply actions  

Nice Job!

Enjoyed your list and, the comment and effort that went into it. One of the best I’ve seen this off-season.

I think what I like best is the reasonableness of your placements and, I think If you had a draft based on it, it would be a good draft.

Things I like best: The placement and defensive optomism of Mike Moustakas. I think he’s actually a very good defensive 3b.

The Freeman love! I agree – the more resonable (than most) placement of Hellickson – countless others.

Minor quibbles: The hesitancy about Chapman shows an intuition that he is going to be a LOT better than most think – go even higher!

I think your love/obsession with walks allows you to overrate fellows like Aaron Hicks or, Darek Norris but, hey, we all have our favorite players and biases.

Dee Gordon isn’t even as good of a prospect as Tim Beckham, in my opinion. . . and this isn’t optimism about Beck talking.

I know Jurrickson Profar was (maybe) 17 but, Hak Ju Lee hit better than him in that league last season and Lee was 18 himself. Lee came along nicely in the MWL as well, which Profar has yet to tackle. I don’t think Profar profiles better defensively or as an athlete either so . . . what exactly makes Profar a better prospect? Just a question

Nice list!
Thanks for sharing it.

"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson

by casejud on Feb 8, 2011 9:37 PM EST reply actions  

Gordon is tough

at some point, you have to trust some of the scouting reports… and watching him play in the futures game, he looks like a professional athlete. yes he is very skinny and his shoulders are slight, but he really glides out there. He could be a very valuable player, and I decided not to dock him points just because he got a late start to baseball. His age may bother some, but he is so athletic and he has the bloodlines, that I think he will age much better than most SS.

as for Profar vs. Lee, I like Profar’s bat more than I let on I guess. I’ve seen plenty of video on his swing, and it looks great to me. Not as certain on Lee’s bat. and though his frame is better for it, I don’t think he has as much power potential as Profar. I also think I ranked Profar in an average spot, and maybe a bit high for Lee [I may have also tried to temper expectations too much on Lee, as I am a Rays fan and can tend to bump up a prospect that the Rays have scouted and obviously targeted from another team].

by daveh33 on Feb 8, 2011 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough, as they say

I liked what I saw of Gordon at the futures game as well but, I just don’t think he can hit a baseball enough to help a club. He is a nice looking athlete though.

We’ll agree to disagree about Hak Ju Lee but, if you haven’t already, I’d bet that If you saw him play you’d like him even better than Profar. As unlikely as It sounds I’ve seen both. Lee in a spring game in Arizona and Profar at an Everett Aquasox game this summer, about 15 miles from my house.

Profar reminded me of a guy, like maybe Edgar Renteria, or Carlos Guillen who’d just be a solid all-around Shortstop. Lee to me reminded me of kid with superstar potential – speed, bat, eye, glove, arm – everything. Lee is a much better, and quicker athlete.

It’ll be fun to watch ‘em come up and I think they’ll both be good. I could go top 50 for BOTH actually.

"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson

by casejud on Feb 8, 2011 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

What i don't understand about many negative opinions about Gordon...

is that they assume what we see from him on offense is anything near a finished product. i know, he’s older than you’d like him to be for a top prospect. The striking things about him though is that he just held his own in AA in his FOURTH year of playing competitive baseball at any level, including high school. That’s astounding.

Gordon has fantastic tools, and his skills are very developed for a hitter/fielder with his experience level. He also appears to be a late bloomer physically, and has a lot of room for improvement under professional training. Everything about Gordon gives me optimism about him as a prospect.

Just because we don’t see prospects like Gordon come along often (I can’t think of a comparable, really) doesn’t mean we should try to stick him in the same evaluative box as every other prospect. i can understand why those that do so don’t like him though.

by PissedMick on Feb 9, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Completely agree with you

No, he won’t hit for much of any power, but he really won’t need to if he can refine his game. I’m still VERY bullish.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Feb 9, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Thats fine

If he’s just a “favorite player” of yours Jar, thats different, but doesn’t it bother you in the least that he’s far worse, as a hitter – and older than Alcides Escobar was when he played in the SL? He just isn’t nearly the caliber of hitter he needs to be to play in the major leagues and hit more than .200.

"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson

by casejud on Feb 9, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

No

I really don’t care about comparing player histories. They are people and do not follow pre-determined career paths. What Alcides Escobar did in the SL has no connection what-so-ever with what Dee Gordon did in the SL. They are unique players and should be evaluated as such.

I know that you feel differently. We’re at an impasse.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Feb 9, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Not as much as you think

 . . . we all make these kinds of comparisons in baseball, all the time. we just want to ignore them when it comes to our favorite players, or the ones we want to believe in. Nothing is "pre determined’ but, it doesnt change the facts. Escobar was a better hitter than Gordon in the Southern League, and Alcides was 21 then. You can see how Alcides has struggled. Gordon just doesn’t have the ability to hit in the big leagues. Im sure of it because there is no evidence that says he does – none.

"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson

by casejud on Feb 9, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions  

"Im sure of it because there is no evidence that says he does – none."

except the hoards of experts who say that he does have the ability, and the scouts whom these experts have talked to.

by daveh33 on Feb 9, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Sure

But, again, cant I find just as many scouts who dont like him? Its not like hes a unanimous top 10 guy or anything. There’s considerable doubt about the guy.

Come to think of it, isn’t that a form of evidence against the guy? Like he’s say, 60th on our list right? I’d say the 60th best prospect on a good list becomes a good major leaguer very rarely.

"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson

by casejud on Feb 9, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I dont know every list

Im just saying that there absolutely, arent 125 future, good big leaguers on your (or anybodys) list. Its not possible. So we (all of us) go through are list and rank who we think has the best chance.

Since I believe Gordon has relatively zero chance of being a major league hitter above replacement value, Id like to think I could find at least 100 guys I like better.

Id say, thats fine if you feel different but thats what discussing our positions on a player is- so im doing it :)

"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson

by casejud on Feb 9, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Again, we're at an impasse

I don’t agree with that way of analyzing a prospect. This isn’t like comparing historical records of MLB players; minor leaguers are by nature unfinished products. I just don’t find any utility in that way of thinking.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Feb 9, 2011 6:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Its similar actually

The numbers have to be interpreted, and there are distortions but, it is still very meaningful to look at minor league players performance, combined with thier age. It isn’t just my opinion either. It can be measured.

An example is when I read a report you did about Jon Singleton. The FACT that he was 18, and the FACT that he was a good ballplayer is far more important than if one scout thinks hes going to be great, and one thinks hes going to be ok, and one thinks hes going to be a bust, or you think whatever.

He was 18, in that league, and a good player – there are percentages in that. That can be measured and compared. I trust that more. Then I listen to my own view when I see a player, followed by scouts or baseball writers that I trust.

There just doesn’t exist any logical reason to think Gordon is going to have a better time of it in the big leagues than Escobar. Do you believe he will? Its fairly easy to watch Gordon bat and see he isnt much of a hitter. What gives?

"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson

by casejud on Feb 9, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

You're assuming that his skills won't progress from where they are now

It’s cool that you find value in comparing similar histories. I don’t.

I see a guy that is still labeled as “raw” in every scouting report that I’ve ever seen. Normally that would be a bigger cause for concern given his age, but then you realize he has only been playing the game for a handful of years (in his life). Then you realize that the Dodgers skipped him past high-A and he managed to maintain similar K and BB rates that he showed in the SAL. Then you realize that the majority of his struggles last year came against LHP (as a raw LH hitter is that really surprising?).

The fact that he was a bit below average relative to his league in 2010? That really doesn’t affect my opinion of him at all. Just like the fact that he hit .361/.398/.493 in Puerto Rico Winter Ball doesn’t affect my opinion of him.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Feb 9, 2011 6:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Hanley

Had a .720 OPS in the EL at 21. I realize this doesn’t disprove your theory but it’s possible Gordon similarly improves as he progresses.

by Dfarth on Feb 10, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes

and he’s also hurt by the Dodgers perennially giving him difficult assignments.

He just skipped A+ ball altogether, which no one seems to notice. No idea why they feel it necessary to keep challenging a raw kid like Gordon.

by alskor on Feb 9, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

But the fact is

That they did do it, and he performed poorly. Gordon is still almost all projection at this point, and at 22 going on 23, I can understand that people would want to see some sort of performance.

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html

by hero66 on Feb 9, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

this is kind of similar to Tim Beckham

the Rays are putting him in AA this year, obviously have confidence in him, and prospect mavens are still asking : “where’s the beef?”

by daveh33 on Feb 9, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Except he didn't actually perform *poorly.*

He’s a SS. He projects as a plus defender (for most people). He’s an especially raw 22 years old. He skipped a level and was still one of the younger players on his team and was almost 2 1/2 years below the league average age. He showed a continued ability to hit for AVG.

He performed OK in context.

Am I confident he will hit? No. I am not. Do I think he’s a top 25 prospect? Nope. He didn’t really perform “poorly” though, for my money.

by alskor on Feb 9, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

how so?

Beckham’s numbers were above-average for a SS, and he had a strong ARL.

by daveh33 on Feb 9, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

gotta run but quickly

Its apples and oranges with an IFA from Curaco and a US warm weather top draft pick. Can’t compare those development curves.

by JD Sussman on Feb 9, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

he is Flash Gordon's son.

the pitcher, not the space captain.

Would that be jack cheese? ~RWShow

by e-gus on Feb 9, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

wow

I guess i was confusing threads… was thinkign profar and beckham, sorry dave.

by JD Sussman on Feb 9, 2011 8:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Poorly is definitely not an accurate portayal of 2010 for Gordon

He didn’t sparkle and outshine a lot of players, but skipping from low A to AA and putting up the numbers he did showed a lot. I am not what you would consider to be a big Gordon fan, but if all the scouts do like him as much as everyone says, there’s gotta be something there. Now that doesn’t mean he’ll be a great or even good MLB player, because I’m pretty sure the scouts liked Greg Miller too, and we all know how that turned out (even if you haven’t heard the name it just shows how well that turned out, lol), but maybe people (myself included) need to give him more of a chance.

"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"

by Ivdown on Feb 21, 2011 2:09 AM EST up reply actions  

People who knock Gordon's 2010

have no concept of how difficult it is to go from low-A straight to AA.

There’s a lot more to prospecting than birthdates and slash lines.

by PissedMick on Feb 21, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's MY point

All of the other players, since 1992, who were 22 and had an OPS of .675 to say .725, like Dee Gordon did, had thier reasons why they hit like they did but, they all fell short.

I still haven’t figured out how a lack of interest in playing baseball at a young age is a point in his favor. Most players have to play the game all thier life to get to the big leagues. I think his late start will prove "fatal"so to speak, as far as him being a big-league ballplayer.

"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson

by casejud on Feb 9, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

were any of them rated this highly?

top 40 prospect by both Manuel and Callis?

by daveh33 on Feb 9, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Probably not

 . . and I dont blame you for trusting certain scouts but, I’ve seen enough prospects not make it, and have enough of a grasp on how hard it is, to see the reality of the situation.

I can find hundreds of guys who hit better than Gordon who didnt make it (Josh Wilson, Alcides Escobar, Joe Borchard were way better hitters for instance) and cant find any who were worse who were any good at all. some woulkd say this meens AA stats and ARL dont mean anything. I say – thats crazy!

Some scouts and fans of Dee see a big explosion of abilityu coming with the bat and I watched him bat a like three times and I dont see it. To me, he is what he is and I dont see any reason for him to be any different. Starting late doesnt make you develop more later. I dont think.

"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson

by casejud on Feb 9, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions  

"Starting late doesnt make you develop more later. I dont think."

i don’t think it means that you don’t develop at all, either. his late start is just an explanation for his age, and for his less-than-stellar numbers. he is not a normal 22-year-old. he’s probably closer to the equivalent of most 19-20 year olds.

by daveh33 on Feb 9, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I dont believe that

 . . because he cant get those years back, can he?

"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson

by casejud on Feb 9, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

learning how to read the spin on a baseball as it comes out of the hand of a pitcher

takes years. this is what Dee will get better at.

and I don’t get why you are so caught up in his age. he doesn’t have much mileage, no serious injuries, and he has athleticism in spades. the guys who get late starts and have “old man skills” with questionable bodies, those are the ones that you should worry about. Not about Dee, who gets compared to a young boy in terms of build and body

by daveh33 on Feb 9, 2011 6:05 PM EST up reply actions  

That makes sense

 . . but it isnt true really. Speedy, athletic guys bats dont develop better. It makes sense but, it can be measured and it doesn’t happen. Older guys tend to lose thier skills sooner but, that doesnt give Gordon an edge. as far as I can tell, he’s got the same challenges as any other 22 year old in his boat – a long, long way to go.

"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson

by casejud on Feb 9, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions  

"Speedy, athletic guys bats dont develop better."

Maybe not, but they age better, and that is borne out by study. Gordon may have more of a window as a result. And obviously people would be more worried about Gordon’s late start if he wasn’t performing solidly in Double-A relative to his experience. I think he’s an exceedingly difficult player to project because of his atypical development path, and the sorts of comparisons you’re making (Borchard makes zero sense for instance) are sort of pointless. And I say this as someone who’s not much of a Dee Gordon fan.

by blackoutyears on Feb 12, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I used to agree with that quote

And when I was really covering the Padres’ system a few years back, I argued strongly against Will Venable, for exactly that reason…
I’m less certain of it than I was three years ago.

by realitypolice on Feb 10, 2011 8:24 AM EST up reply actions  

That is interesting

 . . . because I am a Padre fan, and I really like Will Venable. he’s a very, bery good athlete and a good kid. I find myself having to be more realistic about how his late start at baseball effects his future as a hitter. Not sure if that is exactly what you meant there but, it made me think of it.

"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson

by casejud on Feb 10, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, because . . .

22 year olds, with his hitting skills, at AA, dont develop very well at all. I like him, I like him. He seems like a nice kid and is fun to watch. Its just that REALITY wont let me see him as a very good prospect.

Here’s a question. Why should I root for him, over other aspiring 22 year old prospects more just because he didn’t he didn’t want to play ball until four years ago? Why? If he didn’t care, why should I.

A kid like Nick Franklin has been playing all his life, maybe thats why he is better? He wanted it more.

"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson

by casejud on Feb 9, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

"22 year olds, with his hitting skills, at AA, dont develop very well at all."

How many of them started playing baseball four years before they were 22-year-olds in Double-A? Every time you try to make your case you fail to address his specific circumstances.

by blackoutyears on Feb 12, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Good stuff

Overall I like the list. It was different in a good way and i think you made good cases for some of the non-traditionally ranked specs. My only beef is having optimism in Moose’s D. The guy is 250lbs, he is going to move. The bat is great, and i hear great reviews from other players in his system, but the same individuals tell me he is a block at 3rd.

by Drufan11 on Feb 9, 2011 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice work

As always, it’s the writeups I look for…and your explanations for placements make a lot of sense, relative to one another.

by siddfynch on Feb 8, 2011 10:34 PM EST reply actions  

+1

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html

by hero66 on Feb 8, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Surprised you had Lipka that high

What do you see for his potential offense?

by Bravesin07 on Feb 8, 2011 10:52 PM EST reply actions  

you mean as a ceiling?

very hard to tell at this point.

wouldn’t be surprised if he and Cecchini are the Myers/Trout of 2011 though… to a lesser extent of course, but I really like both of them.

by daveh33 on Feb 8, 2011 11:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Great work dave.

Didn’t read all the comments, so I’m not sure if this has been asked, but out of your HM which one makes the highest jump?

by asyouwish33 on Feb 9, 2011 1:17 AM EST reply actions  

hmm

probably Heredia or Urbina based on potential. or Friedrich because he just made a huge drop, but could bounce back.

by daveh33 on Feb 9, 2011 1:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Good Work Man

Solid rankings and the effort you put into it shows. Thanks!

by killa on Feb 9, 2011 8:53 AM EST reply actions  

Good read

Really like your high ranking on Minor. I can’t believe he is still underrated by so many.

I also agree with you on Dwyer. He gets overlooked in the KC pitcher mix, but he has the stuff and athleticism to be a top of the rotation guy. I personally like him more than Duffy and Lamb.

by deezle on Feb 9, 2011 9:26 AM EST reply actions  

good read Sox Fan!

I can understand some people that argue about his ceiling, but to me it sure seems that he has a solid #2 type upside as a starter.

by St.Steve on Feb 10, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Like the Montero ranking.

While the bat could be special, it’s good to see someone take into account that he’s likely a DH only, and rank him accordingly. I really haven’t heard many reliable sources (ie. people outside the Yankees org, and people that don’t own him in fantasy) that think he has a prayer of sticking at catcher.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra

by Kerm on Feb 9, 2011 9:40 AM EST reply actions  

-1

Harper and Myers are the only bats that are better than Montero—and it’s very close. His hit tool/power combo are amazing.

I agree that catching probably isn’t in his future, but this is a unique case where defense is almost irrelevant because the bat is so special.

by St.Steve on Feb 9, 2011 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Exactly... that's my point

Ranking him somewhere in the 8-12 range, when he’ll carry either zero to negative defensive value makes sense to me. That high of a ranking speaks volumes about his potential to hit.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra

by Kerm on Feb 9, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions  

For me

He is comfortably in the top5, probably only Harper and Trout/Myers ahead…and even that is not completely definitive because of what Jesus proved at AA/AAA [as the or one of the youngest players at the level] comparatively.

I know a few spots isn’t a big deal in these things, but around the top it matters more and when he has shown what he has with the stick [age relative] and some of the top scouts in the biz throw around comps to Miggy- I believe he has to be in the top5.

by St.Steve on Feb 9, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Still

a very good read daveh! I am pretty sure my top50 will look rather similar.

by St.Steve on Feb 9, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

For the record...

I have him 7th on my rough draft top 100. So, I guess I technically like him more than 8-12. In addition to Harper, Trout, and Myers, I also have Teheran, Miller, and Hellickson ahead of him.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra

by Kerm on Feb 9, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

The best bat in the minors should be in the top 5. Thats really one of the few things towards the top that I had a problem with.

by srbaseball2003 on Feb 9, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't consider him to be the best bat in the minors.

he had a .366 wOBA for the season, which is fantastic for a catcher, above-average for a 1B.

his april-june was pedestrian, then he turned it on in July, which is nice. you like to see adjustments made, but there seems to be some groupthink going around that either forgot about his first half or just ignored it, or just plain loves “2nd-half players”.

Freddie Freeman had a .382 wOBA for the season, in the same league, and at the same age. and I think his body will age better, and his power will only get better. How can Montero be the unquestioned best bat in the minors if he didn’t even out-hit Freddie Freeman? seems like a little bit of groupthink to me

by daveh33 on Feb 9, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry Dave

But there is a reason why nearly every major scout or website with rankings has Montero in the top 5, it’s because he’s an animal with the bat. He had a slow start last year then tore up AAA after the all star break. He hit .396/.684/1.080 after the allstar break with 14hrs in 171 at bats. Thats pretty ridicoulous. Yes he had a slow start but he adjusted to the pitching and killed for the rest of the year. I would say at this point this kid is the best hitter in the minors considering he is mlb ready and did this at 20 years old. The only other bat I would say that could rival Montero’s potential is Harper. Freeman is a good bat but I think people would be foolish if they thought Freeman projected to be a batter bat then Montero.

Thats all I got, I can clearly see your a Freeman rube ;) So I won’t argue it anymore. But as you can see i’m a Montero Rube as well, though I think the majority would agree with me on this.

by srbaseball2003 on Feb 10, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

minor point

But it wasn’t like Jesus was in a hitters’ league or park [i believe]…don’t both Trenton [AA from 2 yrs ago] and SWB play as pitcher friendly parks??

by St.Steve on Feb 10, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

i'm not a "Freeman rube"

I ranked Montero two spots ahead, and I think he’s a DH.

by daveh33 on Feb 10, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

he's not a Freeman rube

more of a “Myers rube” ;)

http://www.theyankeeu.com

by lemonjello on Feb 10, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

not that

there’s anything wrong with that

http://www.theyankeeu.com

by lemonjello on Feb 10, 2011 6:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Well

It seems you think Freeman is just as good of a hitter if not better then Montero who projects better and he’s a lock to play first. By your logic I don’t see how you wouldn’t have ranked Freeman higher then Montero. If you could explain to me why you ranked Montero over him that would be cool. And i’m not trying to be an ass, just looking for a window into your reasoning.

by srbaseball2003 on Feb 10, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Also

I must say I did enjoy the rest of the list!! Outside of Montero I really enjoyed reading your write ups and looking at your rankings. Thanks for taking the time to do the list.

by srbaseball2003 on Feb 10, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I ranked Montero higher

because his plus power means his bat will likely be more valuable than Freeman’s…. but I think they are very close. they even strikeout and walk at nearly the same pace. I like Freeman’s swing better, but Montero’s is more conducive to power, and that’s really the only reason

by daveh33 on Feb 10, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

"he didn’t even out-hit Freddie Freeman"

Um, he was catching 105 games while Freeman played 1B. Not to take anything away from Freeman but that’s not an entirely fair comparison.

by blackoutyears on Feb 12, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

i know it

but if people are calling him the unquestionable best hitter in the minors, i was just pointing out his stats.

is he the best quasi-catcher hitter in the minors? absolutely. but i think the caveat should be made.

by daveh33 on Feb 13, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think

you can comp hitter to hitter without mentioning the defensive demands on each player. I mean, if you want to talk caveats, that’s the more reasonable one.

by blackoutyears on Feb 15, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

"Zero to negative defensive value"

is a baseless comment. Yes, if he DHs, he will have zero defensive value. However, there’s no reason to think that if he can’t catch consistently in the majors, he’s unable to play 1B well. A great many failed catcher prospects go to 1B and do well.

by PissedMick on Feb 9, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

?

Maybe I’m going out on a limb here, but I would gamble on him not being a positive defender at either C or 1B.

Also, speaking of baseless arguments…

A great many failed catcher prospects go to 1B and do well.

Sweet! Good to know.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra

by Kerm on Feb 9, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Zero defensive value =/= Below-average defender

If he can catch, at all, he has defensive value. At 1B, there’s no reason to say he’s not going to be at least average. Maybe he won’t, but you really have no idea.

Piliere just got done saying this about Montero in his top 100 list (where Montero ranked #4):

He still has critics who like to point to his defense but there is just about no one who will criticize Montero’s bat. Will he be a good defensive catcher? No, but he has shown enough improvement to be an adequate defender. That combined with a potentially special bat make for an impressive total package.

And there’s nothing baseless about saying many guys who move off catcher become good first basemen. I suggest you research the meaning of the word “baseless”.

by PissedMick on Feb 9, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Personally, I would be shocked if Montero caught for the MLB Yankees for a significant amount of time.

Major Leaguers will run all over him and his blocking & receiving will be a noticeable problem. Fans will want to kill him.

The problem isn’t his dedication to the craft as much as the fact he’s big and slow with bad footwork.

by alskor on Feb 9, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Major Leaguers will run all over him and his blocking & receiving will be a noticeable problem. Fans will want to kill him.

so it’ll be nothing new for Yankee fans who have watched Posada for many years.

http://www.theyankeeu.com

by lemonjello on Feb 9, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree

Posada also spent 3 years in AAA at 22, 23 and 24. Passed balls 8, 14,10…errors 11, 4, 10…CS% unknown, 32%, 25%…fielding % .977, .993, .985

Montero in AAA at 20. Passed balls 15…errors 6…CS % 23%…fielding % .992

Not all that different, but Montero is young enough to improve which Posada did to certain extent. And it didn’t bother the Yankees in 1997, I don’t see why it would bother them now. Maybe the pitchers will have to help out Montero by keeping the runners a little closer.

by OrangeAlert on Feb 14, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not saying there are no similarities, but Posada was converted from 2B in the minors at age 20.

He reached AAA at age 22 b/c of his bat. His problem was a lack of experience behind the plate. Montero has been a catcher for awhile and his difficulties are mainly physical issues with his size and agility.

by alskor on Feb 14, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Posada

was actually a SS at one point wasn’t he? That’s pretty nuts.

by blackoutyears on Feb 15, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Baseless = what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

The fact that some former catchers have become solid first basemen has little to do with Montero specifically. There have also been numerous catchers moved off the position who’ve been fringe or worse at 1B or other positions. It’s moot, or baseless. Player A became a good 1B after moving off catcher, so Montero will be as well? Strange logic.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra

by Kerm on Feb 9, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I hate thinking "why am I about to bother with this" before I post.

You said “zero to negative” defensive value, as if it were a concrete fact.

I replied with reasons why that isn’t true. There are scouts that project acceptable defense from Montero, and other guys with his characteristics have gone on to be positive contributors on defense. Even if he is a negative on the field, his floor is as a DH. This isn’t the NL.

The problem is you present as fact that Montero will have x<0 for defensive value. You shouldn’t say that, because it’s wrong.

by PissedMick on Feb 9, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait, cause I didn't say "likely or "I strongly feel"

In my original point/post, you decided to make an argument of it? I suppose I should have added one of those two, but I thought it was obvious my username is Kerm not Nostradamus.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra

by Kerm on Feb 9, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

There's a pretty big difference between...

I have the impression that you’re an idiot

and

You’re obviously an idiot

That doesn’t mean that both can’t be true, of course.

by PissedMick on Feb 9, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

This like the majority of your posts, makes little sense.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra

by Kerm on Feb 9, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh...

I think it made perfect sense. lol

by blackoutyears on Feb 12, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Morneau

Is one example of a converted catcher turning into a decent 1B.

by Caesar Tovar on Feb 10, 2011 3:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Ken Macha

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra

by Kerm on Feb 10, 2011 9:52 AM EST up reply actions  

If we're going off the top of our heads...

Barton. Mike Sweeney. Sandoval. Garko.

It’s pretty common for poor catchers to move to first base and be average defenders. Not all of them are, of course, but it’s pretty rare to see a former catcher who isn’t athletic enough to play first base adequately.

by PissedMick on Feb 10, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Even with horrible defensive years towards the end...

Sweeney still had a -1.7 UZR/150 for his career at first base, and had a good reputation for scoops, which UZR doesn’t cover.

I’m not arguing that any of this means Montero can be good at first base, just showing that there are tons of examples of former catchers that can play the position.

by PissedMick on Feb 11, 2011 9:36 AM EST up reply actions  

i wish people

would stop with this nonsense.

by skiinginNJ on Feb 10, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

what nonsense?

i don’t think Montero is very athletic. Morneau has a muscular/athletic frame

by daveh33 on Feb 10, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

there

is nothing wrong with montero’s frame at all. he isnt fat, pudgy , or anything like that, he is simply gigantic for a 20 year old. he is no more or less athletic a body than morneau

by skiinginNJ on Feb 10, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

we are either arguing aesthetics or semantics

not quite sure which at this point. and a gigantic 20-year old is likely to only get bigger as he ages. unless he goes on a good diet/workout regime, but how many catcher/dh types with hispanic last names go on to get thinner as they age? they nearly always enjoy their food, and with good reason

by daveh33 on Feb 10, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

im not even gonna

get into the race thing. he has been working very hard on it for the better part of 3 years. here is montero last year: http://www.flickr.com/photos/25387162@N03/4769820630/

there is no reason to keep perpetuating this myth that montero has a bad body. it might be bad for catching cause of how tall he is at a young age, but that doesnt mean he is gonna balloon up and not be able to play 1B if he has to

by skiinginNJ on Feb 10, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions  

hmm, thanks for the link

his calves are much smaller than i would think. and his waist. he does have the thighs/butt that i thought tho. and plenty of larger men play 1B, true but I guess I should’ve said this earlier, because its not only his body / potential body. I’ve read and seen his slow actions and footwork. thats really what it boils down to. as someone mentioned [i think in this thread] , his arm is good. its his slow action/reaction time that makes it easy for players to run on him.

by daveh33 on Feb 10, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions  

wow, skiNJ-

Certainly not a bad bod at all [stop snickering people].

Everyone keeps screaming he will end up at 1B [pretty hard with all-world TEX playing almost everyday]. So if he isn’t traded, is it remotely conceivable that he could play LF? God knows he isn’t going to be great, but if other teams pull it off with the likes of Carlos Lee, ManRam/Damon, Dunn and many others—it may be possible…He may have questionable footwork [play deep and keep it in front] but he does have a pretty good arm…idk-just bringing it up for conversation.

by St.Steve on Feb 10, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Only in uniform.

Yes, they seem to have different body types. Both are listed at 6’4", and Montero is listed as being 25 pounds heavier.

I’m wondering if a heavier guy can play first. Sticking with the Twins, did you ever see Kent Hrbek’s body?

by Caesar Tovar on Feb 10, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Kent Hrbek

You don’t get nicknamed Shamu for having a good body.

by blackoutyears on Feb 12, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

this was kind of my point

i am speaking volumes about his hitting ability while also keeping defensive value in mind/

by daveh33 on Feb 9, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

ummm
Harper and Myers are the only bats that are better than Montero

have to disagree on this. Hosmer’s bat is more advanced that both Myers and Harper. While they have higher ceilings, perhaps, than Hosmer, to say that their bats are better is just silly. PLUS, Montero’s bat and results are special AND at higher levels. While I don’t really like him as a prospect due to his DH future, you can’t just jump in and say that others’ bats are better when, in fact, there is no proof to the statement.

by apoxonbothyourhouses on Feb 21, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

As for the Montero/catcher thing

Several third-party sources have said that they think he can be an MLB catcher, including John Manuel and Frankie Piliere. Even the people who were saying he had no chance to become a big league catcher have started to temper their assessments, and instead have said that he is unlikely to ever become an above-average defender behind the dish.

This fact, plus the fact that he has shown he can mash in AAA, would make me place him in the top 5 without too much difficulty. I understand ranking Harper over Montero because he was a historic draft prospect, but I feel less comfortable with Myers ahead of him. I don’t see their hit tools as very different, and I would argue that Montero’s power tool is superior. For me, the greater certainty of a guy mashing in AAA who has a chance to catch in the bigs outweighs a nice season from a future corner outfielder in A-ball with a pretty swing. Plus, if you go by age, Montero was 20 last season in AAA, while Myers was 19 in A-ball. I realize Myers may be the shiny new toy, but I’d like to see him rake at AA before I list him as a top 2 prospect, and certainly over a guy like Montero with similar offensive tools and performance at higher levels.

http://www.theyankeeu.com

by lemonjello on Feb 9, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

I forgot to mention

nice job with the list Dave, I appreciate all the work/thought you put into it.

http://www.theyankeeu.com

by lemonjello on Feb 9, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

you can't deduct points on Myers just because he's only played one season.

I wouldnt be surprised if Myers mashes AA bad enough to hit AAA this year at age 20, and he hasn’t struggled at any point yet.
Montero has had bouts of growing pains. I also think that Myers’ future power potential is underrated, tho I would give the slight nod to Montero at this point.

I just don’t see Montero being an average defensive player at any position, and I can see Myers really thriving in the OF, and even hitting better now that he doesn’t have to worry about catching.

by daveh33 on Feb 9, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra

by Kerm on Feb 9, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not really about deducting points from Myers

It’s more about giving Montero credit for doing what he has done at higher levels at a younger age. At 19 (the age Myers was this year), Montero tore up high-A and AA, so he’s about a year ahead of Myers development-wise. I also think that Montero’s floor is a lot higher than Myers’, because he has shown that he can handle high-level minor league pitching, while Myers has not shown that yet (albeit, he hasn’t been given the chance, but I think it’s fair to say that there is more uncertainty regarding Myers’ future ability to hit major league pitching).

And if you’re going to see Myers improving his hitting when he moves off catcher, shouldn’t you be projecting the same for Montero as he (inevitably, in your mind) moves off the position? And if Montero doesn’t move, even if he’s mediocre there, his value should greatly outweigh that of a corner outfielder if their bats are similar (as they are projected to be).

I don’t want to be interpreted as ripping Myers, I think he’s an exciting young hitter whom I would love to have in the Yankee system. I just don’t think he can rationally be ranked ahead of a similar offensive prospect who is more advanced developmentally and has a chance to catch in the bigs. If you disagree that they project as similar hitters, then maybe that is the root of our disagreement, but if you agree that they’re similar hitters, then I don’t really buy that logic.

Of course, this is kind of a pointless argument because I recognize the difference of 9 spots on a top 125 list isn’t that significant. Again, great work on the list, and I appreciate reading your thoughts on your ranking methodology.

http://www.theyankeeu.com

by lemonjello on Feb 9, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I love Myers. Love him.

Despite that, everything you said here is undeniably correct.

by PissedMick on Feb 9, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

well put lemonjello!

Very hard to argue against that logic-imo…

by St.Steve on Feb 9, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

these are good points

and you did hit on the root. 12 is actually the highest that I placed Montero on the list during the creation of my list. I have seen him bat on video many times, including against Rays’ starting pitching back in ST. I like his bat of course, but I like it at #12. and as for Myers, I don’t mince words, I have said in this thread that I love his swing. And I am more confident in his ability than in any other prospect on this list. Harper only ranks higher for pure ceiling/ability.

by daveh33 on Feb 9, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Do you have that quote/statement from Manuel?

I’ve never heard him say that. He’s said he COULD be passable for a year or two, but never that he could stick there to my knowledge.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra

by Kerm on Feb 9, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

from a recent interview at nomaas.org
The consensus is (and frankly has been for the last two years) that Montero has improved, but will never be an average defender.
He’s got plus raw arm strength, but a slow, inconsistent release. He’s become more flexible and agile behind the plate, but is who he is — a behemoth for a catcher. He’s just big, in a better way now, but still big. I believe he can catch in the majors, but it would always be "adequate," and he would be an asset for his offense, not his defense.
Comparing him to Mike Piazza, he has a better arm but is a lesser receiver. He’s never been held up as a guy who is great at handling pitchers, either.

http://www.theyankeeu.com

by lemonjello on Feb 9, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe he will be

if the Red Sox could tolerate Varitek for so long, anything is possible. he is going to need to get a contact at the nearest precinct though, because he is going to have so many bases stolen in the ALE… not only by the Rays now, because Crawford plays in Boston too. we’ll see if the NY fans/media can handle it.

by daveh33 on Feb 9, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

How many runs a year is it worth the Yankees to have good defense from their catcher?

Because according to the standard saber positional adjustment, Montero-the-bad-catcher would have to be 30 or more runs below average defensively to have a shot at being less valuable than Montero-the-1B/DH. Is he really going to be THAT bad?

Being a bad catcher isn’t like being a bad shortstop, where there are two or three different lesser premium positions the SS can downgrade to if necessary. A “reasonably bad” catcher is so much more valuable just sticking with catching than moving to 1B/DH, that if you think Montero can be even just a –15 or –20 defender, you keep him at C.

by psiogen on Feb 10, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

That doesn't really work

You have to consider whom he would replace at each position and how much of a boost in value the bat will get by playing in the lineup everyday (120-130 games will be about the max he’ll play as a catcher) and by not going through the grind of catching that many games.

His defense will only deteriorate further as he ages and I just don’t see any good reason to keep him there.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Feb 10, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

It seems like...

you’re already assuming deterioration in skills going forward for a 20 y/o in AAA, as though he is already at his peak defensively as a catcher. This seems counterintuitive, as he could certainly still improve some aspects of his defense prior to deteriorating skills assigned to older catchers.

Cub Fan - Bud Man

by Orangeman94 on Feb 10, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

One of his main problems is his (lack of) mobility

He is a big guy, and his body will only become more of an obstacle as he ages.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Feb 10, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

A 15 runs below average catcher is inherently different though

Since he directly affects the pitchers.

We don’t often see this happen, since most teams wouldn’t consider a catcher that bad. I think a -15/-20 catcher would be below what teams would suffer. That’s beyond reasonably bad. Think about a -15 to -20 OFer. Those guys don’t even last in the OF.

Its also hard to envision since we don’t typically measure catchers to that level of accuracy.

by alskor on Feb 10, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Point being

If you’ve got a catcher who is costing you 15 to 20 runs below average (not saying Montero is that bad, but its quite possible – just using your example) then that catcher is also costing your pitchers dramatically and it will show up in THEIR production/stats. The same way having three negative OFers will raise your pitching staff’s ERA/FIP. Except with a catcher the effect is magnified – especially if the catcher is a poor receiver and game caller (as Montero is). Its a domino effect that goes beyond the 1.5-2 Wins you’re giving up on Catcher defense.

So its not just a question of “Where does Montero have the most value” but also “Where is the team best served by putting Montero?”

I just can’t imagine them doing this. Montero’s best is pretty similar to Posada’s worst behind the plate, IMHO. People run on him like crazy (129 SB attempts in 105 games). That’s just below acceptable in the majors. Can you imagine a big weekend series in Fenway and they catch Montero? Crawford & Ellsbury would have 7 steals each.

Plus the later into the year they go with Nova and Mitre or Garcia or Colon the more appetizing trading Montero for a pitcher looks. My guess is he’s a 1B on another team a year from now.

by alskor on Feb 10, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

So 1.23 steal attempts per game is bad?

I’d need some context to understand your point, because that doesn’t seem so bad to me. Piliere, Cashman and others say his defense can be average.

by HeavyHitter on Feb 11, 2011 12:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, that's pretty bad.

He also allowed 15 passed balls and made 6 errors. SWB pitchers also threw 65 wild pitches. Montero allowed 15 passed balls. Buffalo led the league in passed balls, with the whole team allowing 19. Remember Montero only caught 70 something percent of his team’s games, too. Montero’s 15 passed balls were more than 8 other IL TEAMS allowed over their full season of games. Montero also allowed 99 SBs. That’s more than 4 other TEAMS allowed in the IL.

Piliere, Cashman and others say his defense can be average.

No, they dont. Not sure why people keep saying this in this thread. First off, who the hell cares what Brian Cashman has to say about it? Second – where did Cashman say that? Can you provide me a link? Pretty sure he’s said no such thing. What he has said is Montero is

“better, defensively, than some catchers in the big leagues right now”

http://minormatterstrenton.blogspot.com/2011/01/brian-cashman-jesus-montero-is-better.html

More on this below – but frankly, I agree with John Manuel’s take on Cashman’s comments. What else would he say? I think Montero would be one of the 2 or 3 worst defensive catchers in baseball, personally. Not that what Cashman said is exactly a ringing endorsement anyway!

Piliere did not say AVERAGE. He said he’s shown enough improvement he could be “ADEQUATE.” That’s very different from average.

BA, BP, and KLaw all had very negative reviews of his defense. The only person who even used the word “average” was John Manuel, and what he actually said was:

JM: Not sure what else Cashman is supposed to say; is he supposed to degrade the value of his top prospect by saying, “Well, he’s not really a catcher.” The consensus is (and frankly has been for the last two years) that Montero has improved, but will never be an average defender.

http://nomaas.org/2011/02/interview-with-baseball-americas-john-manuel/

Absolutely no one I’ve ever talked to or read or whose opinion I respect has even implied that Montero can be an average defensive catcher. IF he remains at catcher he will be among the very worst defenders at the position in the majors. He will also be among the very best hitters, though.

by alskor on Feb 11, 2011 1:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed.

Montero will not be an average defensive catcher. It’s very difficult to find a catcher that can hit, while playing acceptable defense at the major league level. As a result, there’s a couple guys at the top that can do both (Mauer, Posey) a couple that can hit adequately while playing defense well (Yadier, Suzuki, Wieters), and a few that can hit well enough to keep the job, despite poor catching skills (McCann, Posada, PIerzysnki used to be here), and a bunch of guys who are either defensive specialists or not good enough to hold down a regular job.

I think McCann’s value is a reasonable projection for Montero. McCann has held down catcher despite bottom-five defensive skills (McCann is touted as a decent receiver, but Montero’s got the better arm) because he’s one of the better hitters in the game. Montero can get there on defense, and he’s got the ceiling of being not one of the best-hitting catchers in baseball, but one of the best hitters, period.

I think a lot of focus gets put on Montero’s defense because everything else about him is so special. You can’t knock his hitting skill, contact, power, age, league, or projection, so you knock his defense. I understand it’s not good, but if it can be adequate, he will be one of the most valuable catchers in baseball for as long as his body lets him stay there (which should be about as long as Wieters’ body lets him stay behind the plate).

by PissedMick on Feb 11, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Don't underestimate the effect of irate 23million per year pitchers

I’m not sure how patient they will be and the coach will surely try to placate them. I expect he gets traded this season. KC would have been a good fit as they don’t seem to care about D very much and Montero fits their 2 year window perfectly.

by pedrophile on Feb 16, 2011 12:59 AM EST up reply actions  

the idea that kc don't care about defense is crap

they’re going to be playing above average defenders at almost every spot on diamond this season.

R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
http://twitter.com/doublestix

by doublestix on Feb 17, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Really? It's good to hear if true

Mous at 3G, not sure who at 2b or ss, butler at first, not sure at C or cf. Maybe you can fill in the blanks but I expect they once again field a below avg defensive team.

by pedrophile on Feb 18, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

the fact that you dont know who's starting at 4 of the 8 positions

means you shouldnt make stupid generalizations about KCs philosophy.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 18, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

hahahaha, I love the attitude lol

KC isn’t sure about who plays 2B not me. Cain will probably be the CF but I’ve heard reports about them actually playing Melky there. Ugh. Escobar is very good at short but will the bat play or will his OBP be atrocious enough for them to look elsewhere? Butler is still poor defensively.

Gordon doesn’t seem surprisingly good. He seems to be a lot better than expected but slightly below average with a chance to improve to slightly above average.

Until I see much improved D I will go based on the last few years of evidence.

by pedrophile on Feb 19, 2011 9:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Gordon in LF is surprisingly good, Cain in CF is good to great, and Francouer (say what you will) is pretty good in RF. Escobar is good to great at SS and has the potential if he irons out some things to be one of the best defenders in the game.

Butler is not particularly good but he’s not he clusterf*** he used to be. Kila will get time at 1B too. Getz and Aviles will start at 2B and 3B 9 to start the season, dunno how they will do but they don’t look bad to me at all.

i don’t expect this to be a great defensive team but it’ll be overwhelmingly better than previous seasons.

R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
http://twitter.com/doublestix

by doublestix on Feb 18, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

The whole point of quantifying a player's defense in runs is that it includes the negative value inflicted on the pitcher

I guess if you really had the worst defender in history out there, it could negatively affect a weak-minded pitcher’s poise out there, but I don’t think that’s a very big issue.

So the question returns to Montero himself. A stolen base is worth about 0.2 runs to the offense. A WP/PB is worth about 0.3 runs.

Is he SO BAD that he’ll allow, say, 100 more SB and 30 more WP & PB than the average major league catcher? Because that’s how you get your 30 runs of negative value. Maybe he is that bad, I don’t know.

by psiogen on Feb 11, 2011 1:51 AM EST up reply actions  

We don't really try to quantify catcher defense beyond some basic things - the things you mentioned.

It does go beyond that. The Catcher is a special case.

Game calling, pitch sequencing, coaching pitchers, receiving (in terms of both pitcher comfort and getting calls from the ump) all play a large role in catcher and pitcher performance that is not accounted for. We know this is an important effect but we don’t have a way to quantify it well yet and differentiate between how much is the catcher and how much is the pitcher.

Make no mistake though, these things are very important and have a very real effect on runs allowed.

by alskor on Feb 11, 2011 2:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Two questions:

1. What support do we have for the idea that Montero can not call a game/coach pitchers adequately? How much of the doom and gloom around his defensive deficiencies is a result of Nichols’ Law?

2. How many 20-year-old catchers have major league receiving skills? Do we decide that all 20-year-olds who aren’t there can never develop them?

by PissedMick on Feb 11, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks

Thanks for taking the time to put together this great list. With all the explanations you have in there, it really makes the list make a lot of sense and in that regard I can’t really argue with your rankings. Love it.

by DJSlam on Feb 9, 2011 10:41 AM EST reply actions  

First person i've seen outside Bleacher Report to hit Stewart for his age

Would be curious to hear more, assumed a 24yr-old competing for a MLB spot this season was right on track. Sure he’s been held back the past few seasons to stretch him out innings wise (and partly to help the Fisher Cats title run last season) but it’s not been due to stuff that he’s been held back.

Agree on his command btw, he’ll always be a bit wild with that much movement on his pitches but you’d hope he’d sharpen it a little more with time.

by TtD on Feb 9, 2011 12:40 PM EST reply actions  

But surely if your making that arguement, Stewart is in one of those major exception categories

As a former college closer being stretched out. At the recommended 30 inning increase a year it would take 3 1/2 seasons to get there from a 70IP closer to a 180IP starter, Stewart is currently 2 1/2 years out of college. For comparison, Brett Cecil was considered rushed to MLB, it took him 2 seasons to convert to a starter and work through the minor leagues, then another season to settle down at the MLB level (his pitch limit is to be removed this season). Will try to find other examples, I know I saw a few mentioned the past season.

Just arguing it’s a false conclusion to make, just like marking down catchers for slower development (they generally take longer as they have to learn to call games, etc…), there are circumstances that force a slower track to the MLB for converted closers.

by TtD on Feb 9, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I only bring up his age because most RHP that will have passable command/control, have it by that age, or they never have it

maybe if he was a lefty, I’d give him more of a break. I just ultimately see him as sticking in the bullpen. And he could be great there, but his value takes a big hit because of it

by daveh33 on Feb 9, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotcha

Disagree strongly but can see where your coming from.

by TtD on Feb 9, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

no brewers

not even in honorable mention

le sigh…

by mladwig0 on Feb 10, 2011 2:03 AM EST reply actions  

If the Dodgers don't go far

I’m rooting for the Brewers to finally put it all together and kick some ass.

"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"

by Ivdown on Feb 21, 2011 2:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Will Myers

Just remember, from a fantasy perspective he WILL NOT stay at catcher.

by Hank Aaron on Feb 10, 2011 8:42 AM EST reply actions  

and from a fantasy perspective

will Myers be all that valuable? I mean, .400 OPS + 25 HR is very good, but is is elite?

by apoxonbothyourhouses on Feb 21, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Good list overall.

Just a few questions. From a GM point of view, you would take Romero over Torres/McGee?

by mr. maniac on Feb 10, 2011 8:52 AM EST reply actions  

yeah

they were all really close, almost interchangeable, til i saw video of Romero

by daveh33 on Feb 10, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Oswaldo Arcia

says “hi”

a year from now I will be in here

I called it - Joe Mauer's first career Home-Run at Target Field !!!

"Matt Millen ran Barry Sanders out of town he Drove the Lions into the ground
and now he acts as if he is a know it all NFL analyst" -favre

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Feb 10, 2011 9:57 AM EST reply actions  

Great list all in all i really like/agree with a lot of it

Willin Rosario I’d have much higher

Garrin Cecchini I’d have much/slightly lower

I think the Rankings of the Twins are really spot on/ fair ……I like where G. Sanchez, M. Sano, J. Profar are ranked
I’m not as high on as Chris Dwyer as I see his command/control, or lack there of, being a componet towards a bullpen shift

I called it - Joe Mauer's first career Home-Run at Target Field !!!

"Matt Millen ran Barry Sanders out of town he Drove the Lions into the ground
and now he acts as if he is a know it all NFL analyst" -favre

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Feb 10, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Good list with solid comments, dave

No response is complete without quibbles, and I think you’re light on Rizzo, though he is at a point of his career where it’s extremely difficult to project him and I think there’s some instinct and wishcasting involved whether you like him more or less than most. I also tend to agree with the reservations about Norris’s ability to hit for average. Considering that, and Mesoraco’s own solid walk and whiff rates in High-A/Double-A, I’m not sure that Norris’s walk rate gives him a decisive advantage over Mesoraco, especially as Mesoraco simply strikes out a lot less so far.

by blackoutyears on Feb 12, 2011 5:03 PM EST reply actions  

thanks

and Rizzo is so tough. over the course of making this list, he bounced around from 90 to the HM list.

by daveh33 on Feb 13, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

"Rizzo is so tough"

I completely agree. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he was simply average as you say.

by blackoutyears on Feb 15, 2011 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Still no love for

Rich Poythress. The man’s going to be a beast. I’ve got him at #30 overall.

In what St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa called a "big day" for his club, starter Chris Carpenter took the mound for his first session of live batting practice and promptly buzzed the fuzz on catcher Jason LaRue’s chin with an errant fastball.

"Sorry," Carpenter called from the mound.

"Don’t say you’re sorry," LaRue barked back.

"He said it," pitching coach Dave Duncan said from the side of the cage, "but he didn’t mean it."
~ DG

by mateodh on Feb 13, 2011 8:57 PM EST reply actions  

i'd like to see him do it outside of the cal league first

also, that seems way out of line compared to where the experts have him.

by daveh33 on Feb 14, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I have Poythress in my top 125

I called it - Joe Mauer's first career Home-Run at Target Field !!!

"Matt Millen ran Barry Sanders out of town he Drove the Lions into the ground
and now he acts as if he is a know it all NFL analyst" -favre

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Feb 14, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

#30 overall for first basemen?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m an M’s fan that hopes (hopes!) Poythress can be an average player in the bigs, but nothing about him says top prospect.

Rich Poythress was a 23-year-old from a major college who spent his second pro season in High Desert. Anything less than the line he put up would pretty much mean you can stop paying attention to him. The fact that he performed decently for the context is reason to be optimistic, nothing more.

by PissedMick on Feb 14, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Feb 14, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Chapman

I can see him the second best pitcher in the minors behind Tehran without a question. At third behind Moore as well does make some sense because Moore has the potential to be absolutely dominant. However, also having Hellickson and Miller ahead of him are where I would have to personally draw the line. Even if Chapman does not become a starter, it is clear that he will have an impact in the majors. He could become one of the top closers in the league. It would allow him to throw 100 mph fastballs by hitters on a nightly basis.

by MrMetsDaily on Feb 14, 2011 3:09 AM EST reply actions  

if he's a reliever, than he'd have to be one of the best of all-time to justify me ranking him top 15

according to my criteria for ranking players. they simply don’t accrue anything near the value that SP’s do.

by daveh33 on Feb 14, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I have a question for those out there that may remember

Pablo Sandoval

where was he ranked when he came crashing throught the Giants system?

Jaff Decker could be that type of player only at a COF spot instead

I called it - Joe Mauer's first career Home-Run at Target Field !!!

"Matt Millen ran Barry Sanders out of town he Drove the Lions into the ground
and now he acts as if he is a know it all NFL analyst" -favre

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Feb 14, 2011 5:12 PM EST reply actions  

which Sandoval?

2009 or 2010? 2010 Sandoval at a corner OF spot, is ballsweat. he had a .307 wOBA, .732 OPS in 2010.

by daveh33 on Feb 14, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Sandoval

wasn’t ranked well, from what I remember. That would be more a result of how he came completely out of nowhere to set the minors on fire than it would be a true judgment of his talent.

by PissedMick on Feb 14, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions  

This comp gives me pause...

Makes me wonder if I may have still ranked Decker too highly…

by alskor on Feb 14, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

ha yeah i guess i see where you're coming from

I don’t know Matt Stairs?

In all honesty, if Decker turns out to be worse than that I would be a bit surprised.

If he turns out similary to Stairs or slightly better; That would be a great prospect/ career

I called it - Joe Mauer's first career Home-Run at Target Field !!!

"Matt Millen ran Barry Sanders out of town he Drove the Lions into the ground
and now he acts as if he is a know it all NFL analyst" -favre

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Feb 15, 2011 11:02 PM EST reply actions  

Chapman

agree on his FB being an 80, but have you not heard about his slider? It’s devastating (largely in part due to his FB), and in my opinion his most impressive pitch. Reports are out of Reds camp that he is still seen as a starter (pitching coach Bryan Price has stated this fairly staunchly) along with comments from Chapman saying he wants to eventually be a starter but is focusing on relieving for now. Along with some saying his change is devloping nicely, and they will focus on it in the spring and in bullpen sessions during the season. Who knows if he ever develops the change, but if he can at least get it respectable, he should be a terrific starter. I was impressed with his control late in the season last year too, and it imporved dramatically once he started pitching out of the pen last year, telling me that its possible he can develop it enough to start.

by pack_fan on Feb 18, 2011 5:37 PM EST reply actions  

i don't disagree with any of this

he was real hard to rank, and I had him sitting at #7 for the majority of the time i was making my list. the more stats/video i looked at though, the more I saw a fastball that could be hit, and his BB% did worry me a bit. I really need to see his change develop. I think it could really make or break his career. and in retrospect, maybe it is a bit of a cautious ranking.

by daveh33 on Feb 18, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I dont hate the ranking

Just disagree on your assessment on his other pitches, as his slider is plus. I’d probably have him above miller at 11. Nice list tough, good job. Was surpised to see Yorman show up there are 125, with him the success at such a young age is encouraging, but there’s no way to tell what his cieling is as you mentioned.

by pack_fan on Feb 18, 2011 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

his slider is plus

Yes. Those who haven’t seen it when he’s commanding it are missing out. I think Matt Lucroy would attest to its filthiness. It might actually be tougher on RHHs than lefties.

by blackoutyears on Feb 18, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Banuelos

You are way too low on Banuelos, who is looking more and more like a big part of the Yankees 2012 plans

by Kapellmeisters on Feb 20, 2011 11:21 AM EST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Minor League Ball: Where the Future of Baseball is Discussed

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Minor League Ball Gameday, 5/25 MILB
Me_at_8_small
Minor League Ball Gameday Discussion, MiLB 5/24
Me_at_8_small
Today in Minor League Baseball Discussion, MiLB 5/23
Me_at_8_small
MiLB 5/22
Me_at_8_small
MiLB 5/21

Recent FanPosts

Small
Texas Rangers: Draft War Room
Small
Washington Nationals MOD 3
Xander_small
Red Sox MOD: Draft Room
Small
Padres MOD #4 (Final MOD)
Henrik-lundqvist-crossed-pads_small
MOD: Mets #6 (2012 Review)
Small
Good luck everyone.....
Small
Toronto Blue Jays MOD #6
Timmyace_small
MLB Mock Draft Round 1, 1s, 2, 3
Small
MOD#6 - Rangers (2nd Round - 93rd Pick)

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Managers

March2111_084_small John Sickels

Jeri_avatar_small mssickels

Editors

Small Craig Goldstein

Authors

Headshot_small dougdirt

Mblpglogo_small Matt Garrioch

Small SethSpeaks

Osnation2_small Jordan Tuwiner

Img00006-20101226-1702_small Ray Guilfoyle

Lax-xl_small Marisa Ingemi

Small Marc Hulet

Moderators

Small mrkupe


Site Meter