Career Profile: Andy Pettitte
Career Profile: Andy Pettitte
With Andy Pettitte officially announcing his retirement today, it seems like a good time to review his career and what he was like as a prospect. I did a Prospect Retro for him five years ago. Let's review that, then see where he stands in historical context.
Pettitte was drafted in the 22nd round in 1990, out of high school in Deer Park, Texas. A "draft-and-follow" pick, he went to junior college for a year, then signed with the Yanks in May of '91. He made his pro debut that year, going 4-1, 0.98 in six starts in the Gulf Coast League, then 2-2, 2.18 in six starts for Oneonta in the New York-Penn League. His K/BB was a combined 83/24 in 70 innings. At this point, he'd rate as a Grade C+ prospect, promising but needing to show what he could do at higher levels.
Pettitte had an excellent 1992 season, going 10-4, 2.20 in 27 starts for Greensboro in the Sally League, posting a 130/55 K/BB in 168 innings, allowing 141 hits. Strong numbers across the board. He ranked second in the Sally League in ERA, but surprisingly he was left off Baseball America's Top 10 prospects list for that circuit. His command was impressive and he pitched well, but his velocity and stuff were just average. Using my current standards, I'd probably have rated him a Grade B- prospect, pending exposure to better hitters.
Promoted to Prince William in the Carolina League for '93, Pettitte had another solid year, going 11-9, 3.04 in 26 starts, 129/47 K/BB in 160 innings, 146 hits allowed. His control was excellent, but his strikeout rate wasn't super-impressive, and once again he was left off the Top 10 league prospects list. His grade would stay around B-, and I probably would have written something like "Pettitte is a good control pitcher but will have to prove he can pass the Double-A test."
He did that just fine in '94, going 7-2, 2.71 in 11 starts for Double-A Albany, then 7-2, 2.98 in 16 starts for Triple-A Columbus, combining for a 111/39 K/BB in 170 innings. His walk rate got even better, but his K/IP was below average. Still, he showed that he could get advanced minor league hitters out. I likely would have promoted him to Grade B, but his below average K/IP would have kept him from a B+ rating.
Pettitte entered the Yankees rotation in '95, going 12-9, 4.17 in 26 starts. He won 21 games in '96 thanks to good run support. Overall, he's been a very effective starting pitcher, if erratic on occasion. His ERA has crept into the 4.00s several times and he's been lucky to have a strong supporting cast in New York and Houston.
Pettitte is a very good pitcher, but in some ways his reputation has been a product of his environment due to all the post-season exposure. He was never better than a Grade B prospect in the minors, but he's been able to show the same skills against major league hitters that he showed against minor league ones: throw strikes, change speeds, keep guys off balance. Many pitchers who show similar skills in the minors have trouble doing it in the majors, as they lose the balance between "hitting your spots" and "nibbling."
Similar Pitchers to Andy Pettitte (through 2005): Jimmy Key, Bruce Hurst, Lefty Gomez, Dave McNally, Mike Cuellar, Jerry Koosman.
That was how things looked five years ago. With Pettitte's career now complete, his "most similar" list is Mike Mussina, Jack Morris, Kevin Brown, Tommy John, Tom Glavine, Dennis Martinez, Luis Tiant, Carl Hubbell, Whitey Ford, and Herb Pennock. The last three of those guys are Hall of Famers (although Pennock got in basically because he was a Yankee). Glavine will get in, and the other guys are all marginal candidates who are better than some guys who did get in but don't have slam-dunk cases.
Should he get in the Hall? Pettitte's career stats: 240-138, 3.88 ERA, 117 ERA+ in 3055 innings, 3185 hits. Looking at Bill James' metrics of Hall of Fame standards, Pettitte's "Black Ink" score is 7; the average Hall of Famer has a score of 40. His "Gray Ink" score is 103; the average Hall of Famer has a score of 185. His Hall of Fame Monitor reading is 123; a "likely Hall of Famer" has a score of 100. His Hall of Fame Standards reading is 42; the average Hall of Famer has a score of 50. All of these readings indicate that Petttite is a marginal candidate. There are worse pitchers in the Hall. The "monitor" measure indicates that he'll likely get in, but that his actual statistical case to do so isn't that good.
Pettitte, of course, gets a lot of attention for his post-season success: 19-10 in 42 starts, with a 3.83 ERA in 263 post-season innings, 271 hits allowed. His post-season performances are actually very much in line with his regular season numbers. He won a ton of games in the post-season, but also had a great deal of strong support from teammates to get to the post-season so often in the first place.
My guess is that he'll get in the Hall, but the two key factors that will lead to his enshrinement are 1) his longevity 2) the fact that he was lucky enough to be drafted by the Yankees in the first place. Personally, I would not vote for him.
From a prospect analyst perspective, Pettitte was a Grade B/B- type prospect who made good.
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he's 13th all time
on FG’s WAR leaderboards. He may get in and be worth it.
They only track historic WAR to like 1980 or something. Also BR has him at only 50.2 WAR. Only 3 all-star games and his highest CY vote was 4th. He doesnt belong in the HOF.
Not sure where you're getting the Cy Young info
but he was runner-up in 1996, and top 5 4 times (96, 97, 2000, 2005). I agree he’s probably not HOF worthy, but he’s worthy of consideration at least.
http://www.theyankeeu.com
I think he's borderline, but that the HGH admissions will tip the scales against him
But he’s had a great career, and as a Yankee fan I wish him well in retirement.
He is NOT a Hall of Famer. He'll be on the ballot for a long time and finally drop off, but should not get in.
That being said, he was probably underrated for much of his career, because the value of longevity can't be underscored.
by Kenneth Arthur on Feb 4, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
true
He’s a Jack Morris type of candidate, albeit with better credentials. This may have resonated with the older crowd of sportswriters, but I imagine the voting will be very different in 5 years.
http://www.theyankeeu.com
He should get in
because he is one of the ten best pitchers in the history of the game’s most successful franchise.
Why not put their janitors in the HOF too
by Nikk.m on Feb 4, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
96' Cy Young
Pettitte should have won the Cy Young in 1996.
He was 10th in WAR in the AL
9th in ERA+, 12th in WHIP, 15th in hits/9, 12th in BB/9, and 12th in K/9 in 1996. No, he should not have.
His 1997 was so much better and he only got 5th that year despite being 2nd in WAR (granted he trailed Clemens by 3.7 games).
by Five-Tool Tool on Feb 4, 2011 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
can't really see it
His best cases for getting in are all based upon his sheer durability and the length of his career, which is a big red flag for me. His best accomplishments are best interpreted as the noise created by being an above-average pitcher for a long time.
I suspect the five years between retirement and first appearance on the HoF ballot will help moderate opinions on both sides of the “Pettitte for HoF” debate, and that we’ll ultimately be satisfied with saying that he was a very good pitcher who nonetheless falls short for the Hall. It shouldn’t affect the fond memories that Yankees fans have and will continue to have of him. I think his best chance will be with the Veterans Committee, which seems to be pretty good at putting in players with this sort of profile.
It's no shame to not be in the HoF
I think that on his regular season stats he is marginal at best. You can’t ignore the 19 post-season wins, six series clinching wins and some great postseason starts. Not that they put him in the Hall, but they put him firmly in the conversation.
As I said earlier, I think the HGH use is just enough to keep him out, and I have no problem with that. But he is in the conversation, and as a Yankee fan I was always happy to see him take the ball on the mound.
Interesting
he was never a super hyped prospect. Maybe coming out of juco was part of it, but he never made the BA top 100 until ’95 (the year he made it to the bigs), when he was #49. Looks like the prospectors missed on him.
http://www.theyankeeu.com

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