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Seattle Mariners Top 20 Prospects for 2012

TAMPA, FL - FILE: Jesus Montero #83 of the New York Yankees poses for a portrait on Photo Day at George M. Steinbrenner Field on February 23, 2011 in Tampa, Florida. According to reports on January 13, 2012 the New York Yankees have traded catcher Jesus Montero and pitcher Hector Noesi to the Seattle Mariners for pitchers Michael Pineda and Jose Campos.  (Photo by Al Bello/Getty Images)

Seattle Mariners Top 20 Prospects for 2012

UPDATED JANUARY 17, 2012

The list and grades are a blending of present performance and long-term potential. Comments are welcome, but in the end all analysis and responsibility is mine of course. Full reports on all of players can be found in the 2012 Baseball Prospect Book. We are now taking pre-orders. Order early and order often!

Star-divide

QUICK PRIMER ON GRADE MEANINGS:

Grade A prospects are the elite. They have a good chance of becoming stars or superstars. Almost all Grade A prospects develop into major league regulars, if injuries or other problems don't intervene. Note that is a major "if" in some cases.

Grade B prospects have a good chance to enjoy successful careers. Some will develop into stars, some will not. Most end up spending several years in the majors, at the very least in a marginal role.

Grade C prospects are the most common type. These are guys who have something positive going for them, but who may have a question mark or three, or who are just too far away from the majors to get an accurate feel for. A few Grade C guys, especially at the lower levels, do develop into stars. Many end up as role players or bench guys. Some don't make it at all.

A major point to remember is that grades for pitchers do NOT correspond directly to grades for hitters. Many Grade A pitching prospects fail to develop, often due to injuries. Some Grade C pitching prospects turn out much better than expected.

Also note that there is diversity within each category. I'm a tough grader; Grade C+ is actually good praise coming from me, and some C+ prospects turn out very well indeed.

Finally, keep in mind that all grades are shorthand. You have to read the full comment in the book for my full opinion about a player, the letter grade only tells you so much. A Grade C prospect in rookie ball could end up being very impressive, while a Grade C prospect in Triple-A is likely just a future role player.

1) Jesus Montero, C, Grade A: Acquired from Yankees in Michael Pineda deal. I strongly, strongly believe in his bat, to the point of giving him a Grade A even with his highly-questionable defense.

2) Taijuan Walker, RHP, Grade A-: A future number one starter, if he stays healthy and builds on what he did in 2011. Combination of stuff, athleticism, and better-than-expected polish makes him special in my view.

3) Danny Hultzen, LHP, Grade A-: Less risk than Walker, but upside not quite as high. He still projects as a number two starter for me and he won't need long in the minors.

4) James Paxton, LHP, Grade B+: Borderline A-. Like Hultzen, he can be a number two starter with his plus stuff from the left side, although his command isn't as refined as Hultzen's. Can you imagine if the Blue Jays had signed Paxton in 2009? How good would that system look if they had another ace-quality arm?

5) Nick Franklin, SS, Grade B: Borderline B+. Don't be discouraged by the weird numbers at High Desert. He's got unusual pop for a middle infielder, and I think he has a decent chance to stick at shortstop

6) Vinnie Catricala, 3B-1B-OF, Grade B-: Borderline B. I don't know where he fits on defense but he should hit for average, get on base, and provide at least moderate power. B- might be too low, could go with straight B.

7) Francisco Martinez, 3B, Grade B-: It would be easier to get a read on this guy if the Tigers had handled him more cautiously, but he is very young and the bat has shown signs of coming around. Better chance to handle third base than Catricala, but needs more polish in all phases.

8) Alex Liddi, 3B, Grade B-: He ranks higher on my list than on most others, because I think his glove is better than his reputation. I suspect groupthink going on about his defense, but both visually and objectively it has gotten better, good enough to stay there in my view. Won't hit for average, but a guy who can hit 20 homers, play third, and is just 23 seems like a solid prospect to me.

9) Phillips Castillo, OF, Grade B-: High-ceiling bat, needs to improve plate discipline and hit outside the Arizona Rookie League, but very young. Could be best hitting prospect in the system a year from now.

10) Brad Miller, SS, Grade B-: Hitting style is unusual but he raked in college, controls the zone well, gets on base, runs well, and looked great with the bat in brief Midwest League debut. Lots of questions about his erratic glove, may end up at second but would be blocked there by Dustin Ackley.

11) Chance Ruffin, RHP, Grade B-: Borderline C+: His upside is limited, but he's ready now, and while he doesn't have classic closer stuff, it would not surprise me to see him get a shot in that role eventually.

12) Guillermo Pimentel, OF, Grade C+: Enormous raw power but with terrible plate discipline, young enough to improve. Like Castillo, he could rank much higher next year if he polishes his approach.

13) Stephen Pryor, RHP, Grade C+ High-ceiling relief arm was awful at High Desert but suddenly gained control at Double-A Jackson. Could help sooner than expected if that progress sticks.

14) Martin Peguero, SS, Grade C+: Signed as Estelion. Big bonus guy out of the Dominican, didn't really live up to expectations in Arizona Rookie League but was just 17. Very erratic defense.

15) Victor Sanchez, RHP, Grade C+: Big-bonus signee out of Venezuela at age 16, hasn't pitched yet, throws hard but we need to see him, etc.

16) Tyler Marlette, C, Grade C+: Talented, if somewhat raw, defender with a chance to hit if he can resolve some swing/discipline issues.

17) Stefen Romero, 2B-OF, Grade C+: Hit very well in the Midwest League. Oregon State product has a decent chance to keep hitting in my opinion, will have to see about glove. Some similarities to where Catricala was a year ago at this time, although Cat has an age/league advantage.

18) Carter Capps, RHP, Grade C+: High-ceiling arm from 2011 draft, mechanical questions will likely make him a reliever but he has the stuff to move quickly.

19) Erasmo Ramirez, RHP, Grade C: Control artist lacks plus stuff but could develop into inning-eating starter, might sneak into major league role in 2012 with a bit of luck. Jackson teammate Andrew Carraway could do the same but is older and gets less respect from scouts.

20) Jabari Blash, OF, Grade C: Has excellent raw power, draws walks, but strikes out a lot and is unpolished for a 22-year-old. He's got upside though.

OTHERS: Jonathan Arias, RHP; Tyler Burgoon, RHP; Andrew Carraway, RHP; Dan Carroll, OF; Chih-Hsien Chiang, OF; Dan Cortes, RHP; John Hicks, C; Cameron Hobson, LHP; James Jones, OF; Marcus Littlewood, C-SS; Jack Marder, C; Brandon Mauer, RHP; Alfredo Morales, OF; Steve Proscia, 3B; Dennis Raben, 1B; Jordan Shipers, LHP; Carson Smith, RHP; Forrest Snow, RHP; Carlos Triunfel, SS.

Pitching is the obvious strength here. Walker, Hultzen, and Paxton is an excellent trio at the top, all three of them projecting as pitchers you build staffs around. Sanchez could develop into similar talents, and you have several very interesting arms after them, particularly guys who could help in relief including some of the Grade Cs.

Hitting is a mixed bag. On the one hand, you have toolsy-but-raw guys like trade-acquisition Martinez and internal Latin American bonus babies Castillo, Peguero, Pimentel, and Morales. They have put a lot of money into these types of players, but there is a considerable risk that none of them are going to pan out. They all seem to have serious strike zone/contact issues. The recent acquisition of Jesus Montero adds a major league-ready bat with the strong potential to be an offensive monster.

On the other hand, you have college-drafted polished hitters like Catricala and Romero who put up the numbers despite lukewarm endorsements as amateurs from scouts. Miller can hit too but has positional questions. Nick Franklin has an impressive combination of tools and skills and I think he will blossom in 2012.

Liddi's strikeout issues are concerning and he's not going to win hitting titles, but as stated above I think his defense is underrated, there is thunder in that bat, and he's not an old prospect. He needs to make adjustments but people have been watching him for so long that it is easy to focus on his weaknesses and lose sight of his strengths.

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Catricala

I am disapointed not to see at least a B grade here. I know u say borderline B but I was thinking B borderline B+. After killing it in the desert he completely DESTROYED AA pitching. .347 1.052 OPS 29 doubles 11 HR 9 SB in 239 AB is crazy good. He still maintained reasonable BB and K rates with the promotion also. Is there any flaw besides lack of a definite defensive position that this guy really has? I know that is an important part of rating a prospect but even if he ends up at 1B he probably has the bat for it based on how great he has been thus far.

"Hello. My name is Matthew Berry. I am on a Fantasy Jihad. Prepare to die!"

by Dominatio on Dec 9, 2011 8:17 AM EST reply actions  

I got to watch him when he came to town to play the Mudcats a time or two.

Absolutely scorched the ball, got to say I left feeling better about there being another true bat in the system.

by tarheels24 on Dec 9, 2011 8:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah...

I admit I felt that when he moved to AA we would see a dropoff. I was pleased and surprised with an actual improvement, especially when you consider promotion from an easier hitting environment to a more difficult one in addition to having to face better pitchers.

"Hello. My name is Matthew Berry. I am on a Fantasy Jihad. Prepare to die!"

by Dominatio on Dec 9, 2011 8:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Cat

I like Cat. As I stated above, the B- might be too low. He’s on the “think about revision” list.

by John Sickels on Dec 9, 2011 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

i understand, just wanted to push you towards the B. I do appreciate the list and only mentioned this because I do like the rest of your placements, this is the only one that i felt strongly about. You opened my eyes on Campos a bit, I like the B grade a lot.

"Hello. My name is Matthew Berry. I am on a Fantasy Jihad. Prepare to die!"

by Dominatio on Dec 9, 2011 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Agree

I also see him as a strong B

by cookiedabookie on Dec 9, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

he’s a total B. He once cut in line at the movies.

by sourstuff on Dec 9, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I say leave him at B-

is he deserving of a B definitely, (maybe even a B+ considering they say the hardest transition is the one from A to AA and we all know how that went) but if you keep him low and always underrate him I can get him for cheap in my dynasty draft coming up in a few months. I was kinda upset when the Mariners gave him 2011 Player of the Year, but most people underrate this guy and I love it.

by James Westfall on Dec 9, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Grading...

his offense and defense separately, what do you guys think his grades would be? B+ bat, D+ defense?

by anjichpa on Dec 9, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Defense I'm not sure.

When I saw him he didn’t look too bad, but from what other say it’s pretty bad.

by tarheels24 on Dec 9, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I just have a hard time seeing him play anywhere but 1B in the bigs.

So I couldn’t justify him higher than that. Is his bat anything special at 1B? I’m not convinced of that.

by alskor on Dec 9, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I actually think he could play a serviceable LF

he has some speed/quickness he stole 17 bases in 2011. I have heard that Seattle is looking at moving him there. he played more games in LF than at 3B in Jackson.

by James Westfall on Dec 9, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

What do you think the Mariners should do with him?

Or Brad Miller, should he wind up being an above average bat? I think there’s likely to be some resistance to a) playing him at 3rd and b) playing him at DH. That leaves LF. Thus, I’d like to roll this into my second question: what grade would you give Trayvon, Caspar Wells, and Mike Carp if they were still eligible, and how do you think they should split up LF among them?

by goyo70 on Dec 9, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

Catricala is a full B

Sign Yu Darvish.
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by purple_haze on Dec 9, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

it really does depend..

if John sees him as a taylor green or chris parmelee type player (both were B-) and if he thinks catricala wont stick at a position (see: jesus guzman or ryan flagherty) then maybe the B- make sense.

by James Westfall on Dec 9, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Paxton

to be fair, the jays drafted Syndergaard with the comp pick they got for not signing Paxton, although I’d probably take Paxton if I had the choice

by daman316 on Dec 9, 2011 8:51 AM EST reply actions  

I would take Syndergaard probably

mainly because he signed for such a low amount of money, freeing some up for other upside HS kids’ bonuses.

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by Woodman663 on Dec 9, 2011 8:52 AM EST up reply actions  

good point

Yeah, that’s a good point about Syndergaard being the replacement comp pick for Paxton.

Hey, that’s a good poll question. Who would you rather have, Paxton or Syndergaard?

by John Sickels on Dec 9, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

it would depend purely on team situation for me. if i am close to or already competing and in need of a sp to be ready soon then paxton, if i am completely rebuilding or am set at sp at the moment i would probably wait for synderguard to develop, there’s a good chance he develops into at least paxton and of course the chance for more…

"Hello. My name is Matthew Berry. I am on a Fantasy Jihad. Prepare to die!"

by Dominatio on Dec 9, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions  

I can't agree with that.

It’s not as if Paxton’s ceiling is a mid-rotation starter. I understand it’s easy to dream on the guy who hasn’t seen full-season ball yet, but Paxton’s got a similar upside and has done it in AA.

by PissedMick on Dec 9, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

+1

I’d argue their upsides are similar, and Paxton is closer to the bigs. I kinda get the $ argument, but even then the difference between their two salaries is miniscule in the grand scheme.

by guru4u on Dec 9, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

also

depending on roster make-up, having Paxton from the left side is a bonus…all else considered.

by insane_sanity on Dec 9, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, agree

It’s tough to debate otherwise.

by Matt0330 on Dec 9, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I really think you and most critics underrate Paxton

I like comparing him with Jarrod Parker, considering both are very close in age and in same AA league. Granted Parker was coming off injury last year, but Paxton outperformed him. Syndergaard should not be mentioned in their class. Comparing Paxton to Syndergaard is like comparing Verlander and Fister. Both are good pitchers, but one has more dominant stuff.

by bp42810 on Dec 9, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

How much did it kill you to put that last guy on your others list?

by realitypolice on Dec 9, 2011 8:52 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

Triunfel

I know that Triu doesn’t have many fans left around the internet, but don’t write him off. The M’s organization still likes him, they have never wavered in their belief that he can play SS in the big leagues, and he made (at least to the eye) significant improvements at AA this season.

Like Liddi, he’s been around forever and there’s a sense of having taken too long and having failed to meet lofty early expectations. But while I don’t expect him to be a star, it shouldn’t be painful for anyone to throw him in at the end of an M’s prospect list. He’s going to play in the majors, in all likelihood by September.

As someone who follows the M’s in great depth, I was actually surprised to not see him at the end of the ranked list, though I know John has expressed frustration with him in the past.

by Andy Stallings on Dec 9, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Not much to argue with

The ordering of the prospects is well designed. Maybe switch Liddi w/ Pimental, but you’ve stated your preferences with Liddi.

I would request slight grade changes for a few guys: Catricala to B (give the guy a break), Pryor to B, Victor Sanchez to B. Outside of High Desert, Pryor has been dominant. He’s a future closer type who isn’t far off. And Sanchez doesn’t seem to be getting the same respect as other Latin-American Signings. He came with very high regard, yet isn’t getting the standard “B” grade that even lesser signings receive.

I’m curious why Jose Campos gets a B grade, yet five Blue Jays propsects get a B+ grade. Campos has ace potential and whacked the crud out of the NW League at age 18. I was at his last game of the season where he struck out 13 and gave up 2 hits or something absurd like that. He didn’t rely on his fastball at all, throwing 50% off-speed stuff.

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by Rudolf on Dec 9, 2011 9:38 AM EST reply actions  

Since no one seems to have mentioned it..

Pryor had arm trouble in the offseason and started the year on the DL, which is likely a contributing factor to his poor command in High Desert.

by Kaorikaze on Dec 9, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Liddi/Pimentel

I can’t see why you’d want to make that switch. I know Pimentel has 3/4 hitter upside, but it’s as a corner outfielder, and his downside is AA or so. Liddi seems to me like a classic 6 hitter (granting that I grew up watching the Mariners in the 80s and 90s, so that might mean something different to me), he’s already reached the majors and homered a couple times, and he will play a fringe-average 3B right now, with (given his work ethic) room for improvement. If anything, I’d create more separation between the two on the list.

by Andy Stallings on Dec 9, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

you would be in the minority

The upside of Pimentel makes him a better prospect.

Liddi might never be anything at the ML level, and his upside is limited. He has significant contact issues and defensive position/ability is a legitimate question.

Pimentel has similar contact issues, but more time to work them out; he has better power; he has a defensive position and can play it at an acceptable level.

If things break right for Liddi he might be okay. If things break right for Pimentel he’s an all*star.

If you think you hate me now, wait until you get to know me.

by Rudolf on Dec 9, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Pimentel didn't really improve all that much despite just moving up to the APL from the AZL.

I think we might want to wait for visible improvements from him before we act as though he’s going to work it out.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Dec 9, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Have to agree

Campos should be a B+, Paxton an A-.

by cookiedabookie on Dec 9, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Just

pointing out, for this year, a similar pitching prospect in regards to Sanchez, Roberto Osuna of the Blue Jays.

25) Roberto Osuna, RHP, Grade C+: Pitched in the Mexican League at age 16. Tremendous ceiling, but could develop in any number of ways, talent to be in the top ten or higher in coming years if he develops properly

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by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 9, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

A- or higher
Diamondbacks 4
Mariners 2
Royals 2
Orioles 2
Rays 1
Cardinals 1
Braves 1
Rangers 1
Tigers 1
B+ or higher
Blue Jays 8
Cardinals 5
Diamondbacks 4
Braves 4
Royals 4
Mariners 3
Orioles 2
Rays 2
Phillies 2
Tigers 2
Astros 2
Rangers 2
Twins 1
Dodgers 1
B or higher
Cardinals 11
Blue Jays 9
Rangers 9
Royals 7
Rays 6
Braves 6
Diamondbacks 5
Mariners 5
Tigers 5
Twins 4
Brewers 4
Dodgers 4
Orioles 3
Phillies 2
Astros 2
B- or higher
Blue Jays 17
Rangers 16
Braves 16
Rays 14
Cardinals 13
Royals 13
Twins 13
Diamondbacks 12
Mariners 11
Dodgers 10
Brewers 9
Phillies 8
Orioles 7
Tigers 6
Astros 5

by Bososx13 on Dec 9, 2011 9:44 AM EST reply actions  

I was not going to count Molina,

but I did by accident, the blue jays actually have 7 B+’s

by Bososx13 on Dec 9, 2011 9:45 AM EST reply actions  

Robles

Thought he might get an injury mulligan and sneak into the “others” category.

by dbreer23 on Dec 9, 2011 11:19 AM EST reply actions  

Wow

Totally forgot about Robles. And I mean just this week — for the course of this discussion surrounding the M’s.

by Andy Stallings on Dec 9, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Chiang

Surprised he didn’t at least hit the bottom of the list with a C+.

by Traindogger on Dec 9, 2011 12:41 PM EST reply actions  

Chiang

I’m not impressed with him.

by John Sickels on Dec 9, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Well.....

Again was pretty good since he was on the “new diet” & is projected to be a 85 OPS+ which in your book is a C+ , no? So thats in the16-20 range in the Mariners system although his upside is limited because he is anaaverage defender BUT can play CF on an occassional basis

by frenchredsox2 on Dec 9, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I was kinda high on Chiang

when he was in the sox system just because he was hitting like crazy and people wouldn’t put him anywhere close to the top 10, but I also thought he has to hit like crazy because his defense is awful and he dosen’t walk.

by Bososx13 on Dec 9, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Middle of the pack

I had hopes that the M’s system would grade out a bit higher, but overall very fair. More than a few hitters lost ground last year. Maybe they’ll surprise to the upside in the year to come…

by bookbook on Dec 9, 2011 1:15 PM EST reply actions  

Vincent Catricala

Think your low on him John - ZIPS rate him as the 2ND best hitter in THE WHOLE SYSTEM -- ahead of ICHIRO with a .259 .321 .401 split…..

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/oracle/discussion/2012_zips_projections_-_seattle_mariners/

by frenchredsox2 on Dec 9, 2011 4:24 PM EST reply actions  

Grades

I would move Catricala up to a B, great bat

Hard to see Liddi having a productive major league career, id drop him to a C+

by Punkhazard on Dec 9, 2011 5:00 PM EST reply actions  

Great list John

I am pretty satisfied with the state of the Mariners system given where it was 3 years ago.

Ackley, Pineda, Smoak, Carp, and some bullpen arms are graduated.

Hultzen, Paxton, Walker, and Campos are some great starters spread across multiple levels.

Franklin, Catricala and the OF contingent give the M’s some bats with some potential.

Numerous Arms to fill Bullpen holes.

What a difference a few years (and some top draft picks) can make.

Bril

by Brilrodion on Dec 9, 2011 5:25 PM EST reply actions  

M's vs. DBacks pitching prospects

It looks like Arizona is close to trading Jarrod Parker to Oakland. If that happens, the Mariners’ collection of arms is probably the best in baseball, right?

RIP Greg Halman

by WhyGodWhy on Dec 9, 2011 5:44 PM EST reply actions  

Eh

you have Miller, Martinez, and Jenkins in STL

Moore, Torres, Colome in TB

Teheran, Vizcaino, Delgado in ATL

Cole, Taillon, Heredia in PIT

Probably is the Mariners, but it’s certainly a good discussion.

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 9, 2011 8:36 PM EST up reply actions  

and in SD

Erlin, Wieland, Sampson, Kelly…

-peter

by PeterF on Dec 9, 2011 11:47 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Those San Diego arms aren't even close...

Compared to the talented trios in Arizona, St. Louis, Toronto, Seattle, etc. Nowhere near the same league.

The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.

by Stupendous Man on Dec 10, 2011 9:36 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Really?

of the #3’s I like Heredia ahead of Colome. He’s not too far behind Delgado either.

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 10, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not Delgado's biggest fan or anything, but not that far ahead of Heredia?

I get that Heredia is 4.5 years younger, but come on. Delgado is on the cusp of the majors, he’s shown the ability to handle large workloads, and he’s got 4 legitimate pitches, with a fastball and change that are at least above average. If Heredia eventually reaches Delgado’s level, it will definitely be a success.

by nixa37 on Dec 10, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh

I misspoke. I’m not that high on Delgado I guess, but I’m in the minority, and much of the time when I’m the minority and I don’t have extensive knowledge of the player (which here I admittedly do not) I’m wrong.

That looks to be the case here. I do think Heredia favors comparably to Colome though.

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 10, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

But Moore kinda negates that argument

by cookiedabookie on Dec 10, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

And

wouldn’t Taillon or Cole, whoever you like less, have a huge advantage over Torres?

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 10, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not that huge on either trio

But Moore is so much above anyone else right now.

by cookiedabookie on Dec 10, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Toronto

has a talented trio? They don’t even have an “A” or “A-” guy. What’s impressive about them is their collection of like 934 “B” and “B+” guys with plenty of B- and C+ guys with impressive upside to back them up.

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 10, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I would say the M's

but the Cards and Braves are 2a and 2b. I would have the Blue Jays probably at three.

by cookiedabookie on Dec 10, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

This too

I noticed you said collection, not trio WhyGodWhy, so if you include that, then the Braves and Blue Jays depth also come in to play.

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 9, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions  

The only eyebrow raises I had was the Liddi and Miller placements.

But you argued them well enough. Before revision, I like the grades as they stand. I understand people wanting Cat at B instead of B-, but there is something to be said for not having a defensive position, and if he ends up being a first baseman or DH, or LF at worst, then he has lost some of his value and has to make it up offensively.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Dec 9, 2011 7:27 PM EST reply actions  

lets face it..

in Seattle at present time he has NO defensive position which is why i see him raking in AAA all of 2012 and if he or someone else doesn’t get traded they worry about it then…from the looks of it though the mariners have him transitioning to LF.

by James Westfall on Dec 9, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I was surprisingly disappointed when I looked at the list. Not in you, but I was expecting our system to look better. I spent too much time looking at the Blue Jays system!

We just look top heavy but if one (big if, I know) of those IFA hitting prospects turns into a stud, it looks a lot better.

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by Kenneth Arthur on Dec 9, 2011 7:33 PM EST reply actions  

Would have liked to see Marder make the list.

He seems like a high ceiling/high floor kind of player, to a certain extent. His limited catching defensive stats looked good, and if he can stick at C he doesn’t have to hit much. His hitting looked good after starting in A+, despite being drafted as college sophomore.(Except for his unusually low bb%, had good plate discipline in college.) I could easily see Marder being a B prospect next year.

by silverbook1 on Dec 9, 2011 8:11 PM EST reply actions  

Good call

I wouldn’t bet against Jack Marder. He fits in well with the recent baseball rats they’ve drafted (Ackley, Franklin, Seager).

by charles wallace on Dec 9, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

what do you guys think of Forrest Snow?

I thought he’d squeek inside the top 20.

Yoenis Cespedes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9ge8l3jY8

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Dec 9, 2011 10:26 PM EST reply actions  

What about Ji-Man Choi?

Is there any hope he can still make it as a catcher, or did injuries rule that out?

by quacker27 on Dec 10, 2011 3:57 AM EST reply actions  

He really couldn't afford to lose a year.

Bigtime uphill climb ahead of him to get back to relevance.

by slamcactus on Dec 11, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Also,

Comparing this list to last years, MAN! there has been A LOT of turnover. And not all of it is due to graduations. Guys like Johermyn Chavez, James Jones, and Mauricio Robles, all fairly high on the list last year, are completely absent this year. Should I take this as a sign that the Mariner’s system is getting deeper, or did were there a lot of really disappointing seasons?

by quacker27 on Dec 10, 2011 4:18 AM EST reply actions  

well...

Chavez and Robles both had pretty serious flaws that got exposed. They didn’t just drop down the list, their stock slipped considerably.

by slamcactus on Dec 11, 2011 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe.

I was never a fan even when he was healthy. Bad control guys who rely on climbing he ladder for re majority of their K’s don’t really excite me. Plus, durability concerns are unreason by themselves to downgrade a prospect. But yes, as with anyone he could be back in the discussion with angood bounceback year.

by slamcactus on Dec 12, 2011 12:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Nate Tenbrink

What happened to him? Still have any type of ML ceiling?

Go Tigers.

by talloptician on Dec 11, 2011 8:55 PM EST reply actions  

Yes.

He had a very serious concussion that he spent a huge part of the season trying to come back from. Very bad injury for a profession with such fine motor skill requirements as professional hitter. Another bad year and he’s probably done, but also a serious bounceback candidate if he’s put his health issues behind him.

by slamcactus on Dec 11, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

What kind of grade is Trayvon looking at if he had 15 less AB's?

Seems like prospects should be judged based on the team having 6 years of team control left instead of arbitrary rookie of the year qualifications.

Value doesn’t change 1 iota because the guy can’t win rookie of the year.

by Vegasexpat on Dec 11, 2011 9:33 PM EST reply actions  

Trayvon

Probably a B-.

There has to be cutoff somewhere, or the book would get so long as to be unwriteable in the allotted time. It almost is anyway.

by John Sickels on Dec 12, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

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