Chicago White Sox Top 20 Prospects for 2012
Chicago White Sox Top 20 Prospects for 2012
REVISED JANUARY 18, 2012
The list and grades are a blending of present performance and long-term potential. Comments are welcome, but in the end all analysis and responsibility is mine of course. Full reports on all of players can be found in the 2012 Baseball Prospect Book. We are now taking pre-orders. Order early and order often!
QUICK PRIMER ON GRADE MEANINGS:
Grade A prospects are the elite. They have a good chance of becoming stars or superstars. Almost all Grade A prospects develop into major league regulars, if injuries or other problems don't intervene. Note that is a major "if" in some cases.
Grade B prospects have a good chance to enjoy successful careers. Some will develop into stars, some will not. Most end up spending several years in the majors, at the very least in a marginal role.
Grade C prospects are the most common type. These are guys who have something positive going for them, but who may have a question mark or three, or who are just too far away from the majors to get an accurate feel for. A few Grade C guys, especially at the lower levels, do develop into stars. Many end up as role players or bench guys. Some don't make it at all.
A major point to remember is that grades for pitchers do NOT correspond directly to grades for hitters. Many Grade A pitching prospects fail to develop, often due to injuries. Some Grade C pitching prospects turn out much better than expected.
Also note that there is diversity within each category. I'm a tough grader; Grade C+ is actually good praise coming from me, and some C+ prospects turn out very well indeed.
Finally, keep in mind that all grades are shorthand. You have to read the full comment in the book for my full opinion about a player, the letter grade only tells you so much. A Grade C prospect in rookie ball could end up being very impressive, while a Grade C prospect in Triple-A is likely just a future role player.
1) Addison Reed, RHP, Grade B+: The best closer prospect in baseball thanks to superior command of 93-97 MPH fastball and devastating slider. One of my favorite prospects.
2) Nestor Molina, RHP, Grade B+: Acquired from the Blue Jays for Sergio Santos, and immediately became Chicago's first or second-best prospect. I think he can remain a starter. Molina was a big topic of discussion earlier this winter. I like him a lot.
3) Tyler Saladino, SS, Grade C+: 2010 seventh round pick out of Oral Roberts developed from draft sleeper into solid prospect. Good power for a middle infielder, and has some idea about the strike zone, scouts like his work ethic. Main issue now is if he can stick at shortstop, and I think he has a decent chance to do so.
4) Simon Castro, RHP, Grade C+: Acquired from the Padres for Carlos Quentin. Live fastball, but secondary pitches went backwards last year and will need to rebound if he wants to stay a starter. The change of scenery could help him.
5) Trayce Thompson, OF, Grade C+: Highest-ceiling bat in system, tapping into his power now and making good progress on defense. Kills lefties but has serious contact problems against right-handed pitching. Struck out 172 times while repeating Low-A. Has the tools to be a star slugger but also carries a high risk of failure.
6) Hector Santiago, LHP, Grade C+: Came out of nowhere to reach the majors (briefly) in 2011 thanks to development of a new screwball to go with 90-95 MPH fastball. Third pitch still needs work and it is unclear if he starts or relieves in the long run, although recent rumors indicate the Sox will continue to start him. Projects as number three/four starter if third pitch develops, or a power relief arm.
7) Jake Petricka, RHP, Grade C+: Power sinker in low-to-mid-90s, flashes a good breaking ball, changeup is mediocre. Awkward mechanics hamper his command and he's got an injury history. Like Santiago, sources outside the organization project him as a reliever but the Sox say he'll remain a starter. Considerable upside.
8) Kevan Smith, C, Grade C+: 23-year-old college senior from University of Pittsburgh destroyed Appy and Pioneer League pitching while showing better-than-expected defense. He was old for the levels, but he didn't play baseball full-time until 2009, having a football background, and he's shown surprising contact ability for a power hitter.
9) Dylan Axelrod, RHP, Grade C+: Picked off scrapheap after being released by the Padres, reached majors last year and has a chance to stay there as a fourth starter. Relies on sharp command of a nasty slider, average fastball and changeup.
10) Andre Rienzo, RHP, Grade C+: Live-armed right-hander from Brazil posts strong K/IP rates in A-ball but is still refining his command. Mid-rotation upside or possibly another power relief arm.
11) Erik Johnson, RHP, Grade C+: Big right-hander from University of California was drafted in second round. Could develop into mid-rotation workhorse if he shows better control than demonstrated in college.
12) Keenyn Walker, OF, Grade C: Extremely athletic supplemental first round pick from Central Arizona Junior College could be leadoff force with a strong glove. However, he's got serious contact problems, fanning 64 times in 162 at-bats in Low-A. High-risk/high-reward.
13) Jared Mitchell, OF, Grade C: Terribly disappointing season in High-A with massive strikeout problems. Upside that made him first-round pick in '09 is still here, but the serious '10 ankle injury set his progress as a hitter back severely. Still has a chance to develop but clock ticking is quite loudly.
14) Eduardo Escobar, SS, Grade C: Slick glove at shortstop got him to the majors, but weak on-base skills and below-average power will prevent him from starting for a first-division team.
15) Charlie Leesman, LHP, Grade C: Good sinker from the left side, but poor 113/83 K/BB in 152 innings in Double-A warns of command issues. Could be fourth starter if he throws strikes, but probably a relief arm in the future.
16) Gregory Infante, RHP, Grade C: Another bullpen candidate with a live arm, ready for significant trial in 2012 but will have to show better command to get a closing opportunity.
17) Nate Jones, RHP, Grade C: In the bullpen mix along with Infante. Performed well in Double-A and picked up 12 saves, but projects as middle reliever in the majors. Cross-body mechanics hamper command.
18) Jeff Soptic, RHP, Grade C: 2011 third-round pick from Johnson County Community College in Kansas can hit 100 MPH, but had only marginal success in college due to command problems and a below average slider.
19) Scott Snodgress, LHP, Grade C: Tall lefty with 90+ heat was mediocre at Stanford but more effective in the Pioneer League. Curveball and changeup have some promise. Could easily get into top 10 in this system next year.
20) Jose Quintana, LHP, Grade C: Recently signed as minor league free agent out of Yankees system after fine year n High-A. Throws strikes with 89-91 MPH fastball, solid curve and change.
21) Blair Walters, LHP, Grade C: 11th round pick from University of Hawaii relieved in college but moved to rotation in Pioneer League, showing 90+ fastball and better-than-expected slider. Like Snodgress, he could rank much higher next year once we get some full-season data.
OTHERS: Jon Bachanov, RHP, Chris Bassitt, RHP; Mike Blanke, C; Jordan Danks, OF; Mark Haddow, OF; Deunte Heath, RHP; Pedro Hernandez, LHP; Tyler Kuhn, UT; Jhan Marinez, RHP; Ozzie Martinez, SS; Rangel Ravelo, 3B; Marcus Semien, SS; Brandon Short OF; Juan Silverio, 3B; Andy Wilkins, 1B.
We'll start with the good stuff first. Both Nestor Molina and Addison Reed are personal favorites. I originally had Molina one spot ahead because I think he can start. Of course, I think Reed could probably start too, but given how well he pitched last year I can understand their desire to keep him in the bullpen. He should be ready to close sometime in 2012, perhaps out of spring training. I went back and forth on this but in the end I ranked Reed slightly ahead.
There are some interesting pitchers after the top pair, especially future relief arms. Santiago, Petricka, and Axelrod would be bullpen candidate for many teams, but given the circumstances I understand using them as starters as long as possible. Axelrod could end up being a key component of the 2012 staff, and if he maintains momentum from '11 he could be a darkhorse rookie of the year guy.
Infante, Leesman, Jones, plus hard-throwing right-handers with command problems Jhan Marinez and Deunte Heath could all receive bullpen trials in '12. Johnson and Rienzo could develop into workhorse starters if they show sufficient command. The three lefties at the bottom of the list all have a shot to be useful, although it says a lot about the system that a minor league free agent like Quintana became one of their better prospects right of the bat.
Hitting is much thinner. I like Saladino but he's probably more of a solid role player than a long-term regular. Thompson has thunder in his bat, but his contact issues are frightening. I like Kevan Smith but we need to see him at higher levels. Toolsy outfielders Walker and Mitchell have huge holes in their swings. Andy Wilkins (platoon first baseman) and Jordan Danks (reserve outfielder) in the "other" section have a chance to be useful role players but neither will be starters.
No organization is completely empty and there are some interesting guys here, but overall the White Sox have well-earned their reputation as the weakest farm system in the game.
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this is so bad
2 prospects above C+, 10 above C. Molina and Reed are good, but so thin, think of this system without Molina, which probably would be better for the White Sox because Santos>Molina.
Awful
farm system. And they held onto/extended Danks.
2 B- or better prospects. Egads.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 29, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
do you not think they should have held onto Danks?
He’s a very good pitcher, the price wasn’t exorbitant, and the White Sox apparently didn’t find the trade market for him to be to their liking.
Only 26 too
Hard to find fault with that move at about $13M per year.
Well
I think if they didn’t like the packages they could have gotten they should have yes, but I think a good trade would have been in their best interests moving forward.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 29, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
for teams with money
a good trade has to be a great haul. given that danks had one year of team control left, the white sox were unlikely to get an elite prospect or multiple good prospects. to use the oft-cited proposed trade partner of the yankees, they probably would have gotten something like manny banuelos and low ceiling prospect. you really have to think banuelos (or whoever that single good prospect is) is going to pan out, or danks is going to implode, for that to make a lot of sense for the white sox. they haven’t gotten burned on the long-term deals to which they’ve signed pitchers – though this obviously breaks new ground in length – as they appear to do a far better job of evaluating pitcher risk and/or managing that risk than anyone, particularly with pitchers already in their organization.
we all love to talk about team control years and paying undermarket for wins. but you’re going to need to buy wins, too, and, as the white sox know too well, there are worse places to spend money than on their own pitchers.
Peavy trade
Hasn’t benefited either team from a talent standpoint. Peavy and Richard (the only part of the trade still with SD) have put up similar WAR since the trade. I guess the Padres win just because they’re not paying Richard 18 million.
by walnut falcons on Dec 29, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
So we pay 17 million a year for Clayton Richard?
and have to let one of our most beloved pitchers in sox history sign with Miami? I’d say we indeed lost that trade. I’d also say it’s a good example of the sox getting scorched long term by doing a piss poor job of evaluating and managing pitcher risk.
Ghastly.
I shudder to think how much worse this system would be if they hadn’t acquired Molina…only one player ranked above a C+, in that case. This system is even worse than Houston’s in 2008, and that is quite a feat.
That being said, I REALLY like Reed. I would trade for him in a second.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Dec 29, 2011 11:33 AM EST via mobile reply actions
As a White Sox fan
this is what makes me far more angry than Adam Dunn, Gordon Beckham, or Alex Rios. I am just disappointed so much in the White Sox, and this is the most egregious of all the things.
by HeLeftYouBagEnd on Dec 29, 2011 11:36 AM EST reply actions
Totally agree.
While Dunn and Rios are infuriating on many levels, most rational people could understand the thinking behind those acquisitions. This thin of a system shows two things:
1) They can’t identify talent in the draft or international FA (at least not enough).
2) They have blatantly refused to sink any decent amount of money in either avenue of player acquisition.
by polodude017 on Dec 29, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Well it
really shows they don’t give a shit about a minor league system. They have traded away their best prospects every year and they draft like retards that don’t understand money OR skill.
by HeLeftYouBagEnd on Dec 29, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Here's some evidence against evolution
Beyond crass.
It was an inappropriate comment...
But responding with a rude/inappropriate comment yourself doesn’t exactly separate you from the pack.
they rush guys through to the bigs, too
in most organizations Gordon Beckham, Chris Sale, and possibly Dayan Viciedo are still on prospect lists.
They seem to have ruined Beckham with the fast track even though he had the promising start. That’s as bad as the Dunn/Rios debacles imho.
gordon beckham....really?
if he was still on any teams prospect lists right now, that’d mean he was a massive failure
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Dec 29, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
So, you don't think a 3rd consecutive year at AAA would have been good for him?
…Gotta agree. If Gordon Beckham was ruined, than every player that had a great rookie season and then failed to live up to it was ruined.
The problem is, he just isn’t a good baseball player. The league adjusted to him and he never adjusted back. Happens all the time.
"The league adjusted to him and he never adjusted back"
Isn’t that kind of an argument for how the Sox may have messed him up? Maybe he would have adjusted better at the MLB level if he had ever stayed at a minor league level long enough for the league to get a feel for him and make adjustments. I’m not saying he would have succeeded if he had spent more time in the minors, but I don’t think the possibility should be completely disregarded. You mention other players that had great rookie seasons and then failed to live up to expectations, but there aren’t many prospects that get less than 60 games in the minors like Beckham did.
I've never been a big fan of the theory that if a player is rushed
too quickly, he is ruined permanently. Doesn’t make sense. Is there some threshold that if crossed too early, suddenly a player will never reach his potential? As if he loses his ability to improve?
I could see a setback where a player has to rebuild a bit of confidence, but eventually either he has the talent to play at the highest level or he does not.
Gordon beckham keeps getting worse. Matt LaPorta, keeps getting worse (ok, slightly better in ’11 but still terrible). Alex Gordon probably was rushed a bit and had a string of injuries, but eventually the talent was realized (It appears).
Not sure why you would bring up LaPorta
Didn’t have a good rookie year and played about 200 games in the minors before making the bigs for good. Gordon is a little closer, but he didn’t have a good rookie year and he still got over twice as many MiLB games as Beckham.
Look, you complain with Beckham that he hasn’t been able to adjust, but part of the issue is that for the first time in his life really (well at least since his Freshman season as UGA), he’s being asked to adjust, and he’s having to do against the best players in the world. I’m not saying things would definitely be different if he had more time in the minors, but I certainly think its possible that if he had been forced to adjust at some point in the minors, it might not have been quite as hard for him to do so in the majors.
I guess my point was in response
to e-gus’ comment at the top of the thread,
“They seem to have ruined Beckham with the fast track even though he had the promising start”
I just don’t think you can ‘ruin’ a player with a fast start, just set him back.
Generally, what ruins a player is, injuries, lack of focus, poor decisions, lack of talent. Not sure what Beckhams prob is.
than every player that had a great rookie season and then failed to live up to it was ruined.
Jason Heyward??
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Dec 30, 2011 1:27 AM EST up reply actions
Injury
Heyward was obviously working through an injury in 2011, so I’m not sure he qualifies – can the same the said of Beckham?
Hand injury in 2010, so, yes.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
" 05 world series title
Yoenis Cespedes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9ge8l3jY8
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Dec 29, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Yuk
I think I would have Reed at a B, I have a hard time giving a relief prospect a B+ personally.
Gonna have to keep an eye on Santiago, since there are so few pitchers who throw the screwball anymore – my brother had a pretty good one growing up.
by cookiedabookie on Dec 29, 2011 11:38 AM EST reply actions
I have a hard time giving relievers a B+ grade as well.
Unless, of course, they’re the best RP prospect in baseball.
by Billy Ray Durham on Jan 12, 2012 5:05 AM EST up reply actions
Have to say I'm a little surprised/disappointed Saladino didn't pull a B-.
A .232 ISO and 11% walk rate from a guy who, by all accounts, should be able to stick at short. His K rate was a little high at 19%, but he showed progress there from the year before when he was above 20% at both stops.
Other than that, I can’t really quibble with much other than a C/C+ argument here and there. One thing this team should NOT be doing is spending money on relievers, there’s plenty of those in this system.
That one stood out to me as well
Might be a grade John reconsiders when comparing him to other C+ types.
by cookiedabookie on Dec 29, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Even if Saladino were a 2B he’d still be pretty interesting.
by charles wallace on Dec 29, 2011 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
kevan smith left pitt's football program after the 2008 season
so he’s been playing baseball full-time since 2009.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/mostread/s_608723.html
You never cease to amaze me larry.
Always bringing quality info to the table.
by polodude017 on Dec 29, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
good knowledge
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Dec 29, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
yes, would have been nice to know more about him before now.
the sox minor league ‘expert’ never mentions a catching prospect with a line of .355/.448/1.073 but lists mike blanke in his top 20? yikes!!
I don't know which minor league expert you are referring to...
but Blanke posted a pretty impressive line in short season ball too. I like Smith, but he was destroying players that were either vastly inferior or much younger.
by polodude017 on Dec 29, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Does this change your ranking or grading of Smith in any way?
sickel’s top 20 list.
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/12/29/2668142/chicago-white-sox-top-20-prospects-for-2012
nice to see the santiago trend continue. nothing really odd on the list. sickels perhaps overrates kevan smith a bit because he thinks smith has been playing baseball full-time since 2010 instead of 2009.
by larry on Dec 29, 2011 11:56 AM EST
thomas royse.
after he had tommy john after the 2010 season, you had him ranked #10. he obviously missed all of 2012 with that and he doesn’t even merit a mention on your list (or in your book) this year. did he have a rehab setback or something else which radically changed your view of him?
royse
well i haven’t been able to find much about how his rehab is going. he will be in the book
by John Sickels on Dec 29, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
White Sox are by far the cheapest team in baseball when it comes to signing a
Newsdesk contributor to SB Nation Midwest. Baseball writer for Beyond the Box Score and MLB Daily Dish.
I'm one of those Twitter persons, too.
by Satchel Price on Dec 29, 2011 12:09 PM EST via mobile reply actions
The White Sox are the cheapest team in baseball when it comes to signing amateur talent.
This is what results from that.
Newsdesk contributor to SB Nation Midwest. Baseball writer for Beyond the Box Score and MLB Daily Dish.
I'm one of those Twitter persons, too.
by Satchel Price on Dec 29, 2011 12:10 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Thankfully the new CBA will force other teams to their level.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
by U-God on Dec 29, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Reed
How aggressive do you think the Sox will be with him assuming the closer’s role? Do you tthink they give the ball to Reed in ST and say ‘win the job’, or do you think it’s Thornton’s job to lose?
I expect them to give him every chance.
They haven’t been shy to challenge top pitching prospects in recent years, and that’s been while they’ve been “all in”.
Considering they’re rebuilding/retooling, they’ll give him every chance to grab hold of the role.
by Billy Ray Durham on Jan 12, 2012 5:08 AM EST up reply actions
Prospects
Flowers,Morel,Cris Sale,Viciedo,all in the majors but were on this list a year ago.
Phil Humber,D’Aza,Sergio Santos,and Carlos Quinton and Zach Stewart never spent a day on this list but all contributed in the majors last year.
Every year we are told of all the talent that KC has in the minors.
Hopes and dreams for the future are nice but it does not always mean results.
Hey, you must've missed the memo...
The White Sox finished 4 games below .500 and in 3rd place. Apparently their method doesn’t really mean results either.
I read the memo
It said that Dunn and Rios stole 26 million dollars last year.
Neither spent one day as a Sox prospect.
When's that AJ for Logan Morrison trade going down?
by polodude017 on Dec 30, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
AJ and Stewart
That trade will happen the day after you stop second guessing some people and licking other’s boots.
It’s easy to criticize.
Here’s and idea Dude have an original thought.
Reds fan here - What prospect do you think it will take to land Carlos Quentin?
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 29, 2011 3:27 PM EST reply actions
Zach Cozart
or Daniel Corcino?
Yoenis Cespedes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9ge8l3jY8
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Dec 29, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
I could see Corcino happening, but Cozart won't be traded
No way they do Janish/Renteria again!
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 29, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
Sure you really want Carlos Quentin?
He has hard time staying healthy and his performance moves like a yo-yo.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
I love the pushing strategy
forces prospects to adjust, makes them bettter quicker, and makes you able to put prospects on the 40 man roster because they’re MLB ready not because you need to protect them. But pushed prospects are really underrated on the internet. I love to use stats to evaluate a prospect who hasn’t been pushed, but with a player who’s been pushed you really just have to look at scouting reports and plate discipline, it’s so much different.
interesting...take.... I find it different than you
Yoenis Cespedes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9ge8l3jY8
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Dec 29, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
I like it for college players
Getting anyone to the MLB before 22 is probably a mistake
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 29, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
There are times when it makes sense; the Giants wouldn't have won the World Series without Madison Bumgarner
In general, though, teenagers shouldn’t be in the major leagues.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
Met fan here, I've seen this strategy fail in epic fashion during the Minaya years.
Not good at all push under 21 year old prospects unless they’ve mastered their league.
i think it depends
on the prospect and the level of development
for pitching prospects, for me at least, i always look at BB rates. i don’t feel comfortable projecting initial success for a pitching prospect unless i can see that he doesn’t have any control problems
by blue bulldog on Dec 29, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
The thing which has to depress White Sox fan the most about their system
Is that both of those top two prospects could well wind up as bullpen arms.
Not a lot of impact reinforcements coming to the ML club.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
The Sox farm system suits their needs just fine.
The major league team competes and that’s really all that matters to most of us. Bullpen arms are always in great demand and anyone who really understands baseball knows that your offense is only as good as your bullpen. Do you remember 2005, Orem? I’ll bet you do. Now THAT was a bullpen!
Many a quality reliever comes from the waiver wire or the rule 5 draft
I would never want my top two prospects to wind up as relief pitchers.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
challenge accepted.
Alfredo Aceves 93 IP 2.03 ERA contract was sold to mexican league
Cristhian Martinez 77 IP 3.36 ERA Claimed on waivers by Braves from Marlins, April 8, 2010.
David Pauley 74 IP 3.16 ERA Non tendered
Mike Adams Claimed on waivers by Indians from Mets, July 7, 2006
Edward Mujica Traded by Indians to Padres for cash considerations, April 1, 2009
John Axford Released by Yankees, Dec. 14, 2007
Eric O’Flaherty Claimed on waivers by Braves from Mariners, Nov. 20, 2008
Matt Belisle Non Tendered 2008 by Reds
Kameron Loe Released by Rangers, Nov. 26, 2008
Joel Hanrahan Released by Dodgers 2006
Jamey Wright Released numerous times
Joel Peralta Released numerous times
Chris Resop Released numerous times
Scott Downs Released by Expos, Nov. 29, 2004
Al Alburquerque Released 2010
Mike MacDougal Released numerous times
Luis Ayala Released numerous times
Darren Oliver Released numerous times
Grant Balfour Claimed on waivers by Brewers from Reds, Oct. 5, 2006
Jose Arredondo Released by Angels 2009
The list goes on and on. Most of the best relievers are failed starting pitching prospects. Even mediocre pitching prospects like Jonny Venters can turn into an elite reliever, you never know. You just need a smart GM and scouting department to find the diamonds in the rough.
by cajunrevenge on Dec 30, 2011 2:15 AM EST up reply actions 10 recs
Really?
Seven man bullpen from this list:
Aceves, Mujica, Peralta, Oliver, Balfour, Hanrahan, Axford. That would be a top bullpen in the game.
by cookiedabookie on Dec 30, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
white sox fans, like fans of every team, should be familiar with this.
bobby jenks, will ohman. dustin hermanson, sergio santos, dj carrasco. phil humber mostly started last season but he was scrap heap. john calls dylan axelrod a possible ROY candidate.
and you disagree
yeah. if you’re a two pitch pitcher, and only one of them is plus, it’s hard to see how you become a ROY candidate.
particularly when addison reed is on your team.
by larry on Dec 29, 2011 4:39 PM EST
Kenny Williams has run the White Sox into the ground
The farm system is the worst in baseball. Meanwhile Williams is schizophrenic on whether he is or is not in rebuilding mode. Does he have any choice, especially given how Reinsdorf wants to stop the financial bleeding?
I think Williams severely overplayed his hand in trade talks about John Danks. And at this point he may have great difficulty gettin value for Carlos Quentin, Matt Thornton and even Gavin Floyd.
Gordon Beckham is a bust. Brandon Morel is incapable of hitting major league pitching. Jake Peavy is a $19 million excuse making machine…and generally lousy. Adam Dunn is an albatross. Alex Rios is a disinterested clubhouse cancer.
What an ungoldy mess. Reinsdorf would be wise to fire Kenny and promote Rick Hahn to the big chair.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
obviously Rick Hahn must have been locked in the closet for the past few years
And not had any input into the demise of the white sox minor league system. Thus deserving of a promotion ASAP.
"Good teams win games. Bad teams have meetings."
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 29, 2011 9:23 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions 3 recs
Alex Anthopoulos was J.P. Ricciardi's Assistant GM for years.
Yet they conflicted heavily in terms of how to properly approach running a major league team. Especially in terms of amateur scouting. Ricciardi believed in a small staff of scouts, as he thought it was an exercise in “quality over quantity”. He had one scouting department. He didn’t separate amateur from professional. He kept a small number of “trusted” scouts, paid them a mediocre wage, and worked them to their limit. When he got his scouting reports, guys had seen the players they reported about only a couple times in some cases.
AA believed in doubling the scouting dept, while also maximizing quality of scouts with increases in pay, off-time, and general benefits. His strategy accurately attracted the best and brightest available scouts in baseball. His strategy has paid obvious dividends. His scouts see guys much more often, are better rested, and are generally happier with the organization and their role within in.
To say KW’s failures reflect Hahn’s failures is a confession of ignorance. The Blue Jays example is just that….an example.
by Billy Ray Durham on Jan 12, 2012 5:20 AM EST up reply actions
plus reinsdorf is 75
He most likely isn’t going to want KW to go in a full rebuilding mode that will take a few years to hopefully pan out. also, it was proven before, that without a competitive team, attendance falls off the table on the southside.
"Good teams win games. Bad teams have meetings."
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 29, 2011 9:27 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
holy shit!
you paint a bleak picture, BLou. We could go the next 104 years without winning a championship!
Fun
Funny to see eveyone jump in and pike on the worst farm system because it’s easy. At least know the players if you’re goIng to try to rip them. BRENT Morel, and one year of major league play surely isn’t enough to say he’s incapable of succeeding.
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez
by The Deacon on Dec 29, 2011 10:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Adam Dunn is an albatross
after 1 year? The guy’s been the model of consistency as a 3-True Outcome until LAST year. Before you make that conclusion, let’s see if it’s only an aberration (ala Verlander’s 2008).
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Dec 30, 2011 1:32 AM EST up reply actions
Relax
Kenny also ended an almost 100 year World Series drought and the team has performed try well under his leadership. I’m not saying that he is the best GM in baseball but he has done a good job over his time in Chicago. Many of the trades he has been blasted for have turned out quite well for Kenny.
Big Sexy
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by King Billy Royal on Dec 30, 2011 2:18 AM EST up reply actions
since 2006
for the past six years, the White Sox have had payroll at the $100 million level or higher (i’m counting 2009 when their payroll was at $96 million)
yet despite that, they’ve made it to the playoffs only once, and even that year it was barely eking in on a one-game playoff against the Twins
considering that during that time-span the White Sox were in a division with basically two non-contending givens (Indians/Royals) and that they have consistently had a higher payroll than the Twins, and have split those six years with the Tigers for highest payroll in the division, i think saying that Kenny “has done a good job” is a little…rose-colored?
i personally think Kenny is one of the worser GM’s in baseball, though i admit as a Dbacks fan my opinion of him is heavily colored by the Edwin Jackson for Daniel Hudson and David Holmberg trade
by blue bulldog on Dec 30, 2011 4:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
as a d-backs fan, you're view of KW is obviously skewed
He’s made some unsavory trades with that team in the past.
"Good teams win games. Bad teams have meetings."
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 30, 2011 7:19 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
doesn't change the fact
that he’s had the best or second best payroll in the weak NL Central to work with and still only managed to make it to the playoffs only once the past six years
by blue bulldog on Dec 30, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Ouch
Is this the worst system John has ever graded? I don’t remember any team’s #3 being a C+.
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rocco baldelli
your 2009 ‘offseason plan’ consisted of signing rocco baldelli to play cf, award 3b to josh fields, 2b to chris getz and sign grudzielanek for utility. if we want to go back 3 years and find a post someone made a prediction on or a suggested path that didn’t pan out, i’m pretty sure we could all find them. you seldom, make that rarely make any kind of prediction for fear someone will point it out to you, yet you’re the first one to do something like this. what is your prediction for the sox and tigers next year?
wow
i totally missed it
i thought he was complimenting rwperu, because i read the beginning of the prediction and saw him explain why Dye, Thome, Konerko and Pierzinski were all on the downtrend….and that’s exactly what happened in 2008. all of those guys had 2 WAR or less, quite a bit worse than relative to 2006, which was where the comparison was made
by blue bulldog on Dec 31, 2011 3:44 AM EST up reply actions
Is anyone aware if the following measures exist?
1. % of 25 man roster players (would have to be by year) that are drafted vs. signed
2. Of those drafted, a breakdown by team by the # drafted. So say of the 750 players on the active roster on opening day 2011, 25 were drafted by the White Sox. This would give us a measure of a teams ability to draft.
3. By Team, percentage of players drafted by the team they play for.
4. By Team, the percentage of players drafted by team, traded or signed. This will help you measure where the team get’s it’s players.
I enjoy reading these prospect analyses but all it takes is one good minor league year by any one of these players for them to shoot up the list. They all have “potential” or else they wouldn’t be on a minor league baseball team. If you really want to know if a team can draft players then #2 above measure would tell you. If you want to know how a team utilizes its resources then #4 would tell you. If you want to know if a team can develop it’s talent then #3 will tell you.
by striker on Dec 30, 2011 8:38 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Jon Gilmore?
John, did you give Jon Gilmore any consideration? He was injured last season and played only 50 games in AA and hit .283/.351/.417. He’s a former 1st rounder and he’s still only 23 yrs old. If he’s able to stay healthy do you think he has a chance to get his career back on track?
John, where approximately would you put Castro and Hernandez in the Sox system?
Would it be safe to say both would now be top 10 prospects for the Sox? KW claims Castro had back issues last year but is now healthy.
castro
castro will be in top 10 for sure. I don’t know about hernandez. i will revisit this when the book is done
by John Sickels on Dec 31, 2011 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
Anything decent in the package they got for Frasor?
Jaye at least looks mildly interesting.

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