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San Diego Padres Top 20 Prospects for 2012

San Diego Padres Top 20 Prospects for 2012

UPDATED JANUARY 17, 2012

The list and grades are a blending of present performance and long-term potential. Comments are welcome, but in the end all analysis and responsibility is mine of course. Full reports on all of players can be found in the 2012 Baseball Prospect Book. We are now taking pre-orders. Order early and order often!

Star-divide


QUICK PRIMER ON GRADE MEANINGS:

Grade A prospects are the elite. They have a good chance of becoming stars or superstars. Almost all Grade A prospects develop into major league regulars, if injuries or other problems don't intervene. Note that is a major "if" in some cases.

Grade B prospects have a good chance to enjoy successful careers. Some will develop into stars, some will not. Most end up spending several years in the majors, at the very least in a marginal role.

Grade C prospects are the most common type. These are guys who have something positive going for them, but who may have a question mark or three, or who are just too far away from the majors to get an accurate feel for. A few Grade C guys, especially at the lower levels, do develop into stars. Many end up as role players or bench guys. Some don't make it at all.

A major point to remember is that grades for pitchers do NOT correspond directly to grades for hitters. Many Grade A pitching prospects fail to develop, often due to injuries. Some Grade C pitching prospects turn out much better than expected.

Also note that there is diversity within each category. I'm a tough grader; Grade C+ is actually good praise coming from me, and some C+ prospects turn out very well indeed.

Finally, keep in mind that all grades are shorthand. You have to read the full comment in the book for my full opinion about a player, the letter grade only tells you so much. A Grade C prospect in rookie ball could end up being very impressive, while a Grade C prospect in Triple-A is likely just a future role player.

1) Yonder Alonso, 1B, Grade B+: Acquire in the big Mat Latos deal with the Cincinnati Reds. His style of hitting should fit better in San Diego than Anthony Rizzo's. I expect Alonso will hit for average, post a strong OBP, and provide at least moderate power.

2) Yasmani Grandal, C, Grade B+: Also acquired in the Latos deal. Needs more polish on defense, although he has the tools to thrive and I'm optimistic about his glove. Like Alonso, he should provide a solid OBP with moderate power.

3) Rymer Liriano, OF, Grade B+: You can make a case to rank him above Rizzo, although they are very different players. Five Tool/Seven Skill potential is obvious, and he made strides with the strike zone last year. Scouts love him and the numbers are catching up.

4) Jedd Gyorko, 3B, Grade B+ : I believe in the bat and he can handle third base. Should hit for average, post solid OBP, with at least moderate power.

5) Robbie Erlin, LHP, Grade B+: Extremely close between Erlin and Wieland, but I'll go with Erlin due to lefty premium and nine month age edge. I know he doesn't have a blistering fastball, but the guy has superb command of deceptive stuff, plus pornographic statistics. Should do well in this ballpark.

6) Joe Wieland, RHP, Grade B+: Hard to believe they got Wieland and Erlin for Mike Adams. Like Robbie, Joe's fastball plays past it's velocity due to terrific command and impressive secondary pitches.

7) Keyvius Sampson, RHP, Grade B+: Baseball America seems oddly reserved about him, but he looks great to me, other Midwest League sources are very positive, he throws hard, his stat profile is strong, and he's athletic.

8) Casey Kelly, RHP, Grade B: Borderline B+. Kelly will rank ahead of Erlin and Wieland on most lists, and I might be undergrading him a notch, but there are some things here that hold me back from a higher grade. He didn't dominate Double-A despite repeating the league, his secondary stuff isn't as refined as Erlin/Wieland, his fastball isn't consistently faster, and he is a full year older than Erlin and almost two years older than Sampson. He still looks like a fine mid-rotation starter but I don't see him as a potential ace. I'm thinking about this grade and this one is far from final.

9) Cory Spangenberg, 2B, Grade B: Borderline B+: On-base machine with some gap power and 70-speed. Needs to polish defense but pure hitting skills are sharp. He was a slight overdraft at 10th overall but not by a terrible amount.

10) James Darnell, OF-3B, Grade B-:
I like the bat a lot, but age and positional questions preclude a higher grade. Should be a solid run producer.

11) Joe Ross, RHP, Grade B-: Could theoretically be the top pitching prospect in the system a year from now. More advanced than brother Tyson at the same age, and has a higher physical upside than the pitchers ahead of him, but let's get some data first.

12) Brad Boxberger, RHP, Grade B-: Another part of the Latos deal. Very live arm, took well to bullpen role last year. At worst he should be an effective middle reliever, and if his command holds up he has a chance to close.

13) Jaff Decker, OF, Grade B-: Seems to improve his physical conditioning every year, even stole 15 bases in '11, strong throwing arm. Patient to a fault, needs to find balance between aggression and passivity. Could put up huge numbers at Tucson.

14) Austin Hedges, C, Grade B-: Superior defensive catcher. Scouts have mixed opinions about his bat; some think he can hit for a decent average with touches of power, others don't think he'll hit enough to play regularly despite his glove. Not enough objective data yet to have a sabermetric opinion, although most catchers with a similar plus-glove/questionable-bat profile coming out of high school don't make it. If he hits, will rank much higher next year.

15) Anthony Bass, RHP, Grade B-: Doesn't have upside of the pitchers ahead of him, but ready to help now. Lack of major league strikeouts is concerning, but the park will help him.

16) Juan Oramas, LHP, Grade B-: Short, bad body, but exhibits strong command of solid southpaw stuff, succeeded in Double-A. Could develop into a very nice fourth starter, or possibly some tasty trade bait.

17) Donavan Tate, OF, Grade C+: Still has the Grade A tools, but constant injuries and personality factors weigh his grade down. He has some patience, but doubts about his swing persist and he needs at-bats to improve. Too soon to give up but he's got work to do.

18) Jonathan Galvez, 2B, Grade C+: Fast, has some power, needs to sharpen strike zone and polish up his defense, but has a broad range of tools and skills.

19) Jace Peterson, SS, Grade C+. McNeese State shortstop/cornerback showed terrific plate discipline in pro debut, along with speed. Has some pop in his bat and I think he can remain at the position.

20) Blake Tekotte, OF, Grade C+: Ideal skills for a fourth outfielder, does a little of everything.

21) Vince Belnome, 2B, Grade C+: Scouts don't like his tools much and he doesn't look like a second baseman at 5-11, 210, but so far professional pitchers haven't been able to control his bat. Hits for power and average with good plate discipline.

22) Reymond Fuentes, OF, Grade C+: Excellent athleticism, speed, defense, but lack of pop could prevent him from becoming a regular.

23) Mike Kelly, RHP, Grade C+: Intriguing high school arm from 2011 draft, somewhat raw but has upside. Could rank much higher next year if he can improve secondary stuff and command.

24) Edinson Rincon, "3B", Grade C+: I really like his bat but his glove is atrocious. Likely to end up at left field or first base.

25) Brad Brach, RHP, Grade C+: Scouts nitpick him but the results speak for themselves. Should be a fine middle reliever.

26) Matt Andriese, RHP, Grade C+: Ground ball-oriented strike-thrower from 2011 draft, grade could be much higher next year. Upside of mid-rotation starter.

27) Miles Mikolas RHP, Grade C+: Yet another live bullpen arm with strong statistical track record.

OTHERS: "Yoan Alcantara," OF; John Barbato, RHP; Drew Cumberland, 2B; Jason Hagerty, C; Duanel Jones, 3B; Matt Lollis, RHP; Alberth Martinez, OF; Mark Pope, RHP; Adys Portillo, RHP; Kevin Quackenbush, RHP; Jorge Reyes, RHP, Jeudy Valdez, SS; Everett Williams, OF.

This was already a very deep farm system, but adding Erlin and Wieland in the Adams trade was a masterstroke. Erlin, Wieland, Kelly, and Sampson is an exciting quartet, Joe Ross could be the best of all once he gets some innings in, Bass and Oramas are not slouches, and there are a large group of solid bullpen arms ready in the near future. That doesn't even include live-armed pitchers in the "others" list like Castro, Cates, Lollis and Portillo who have high ceilings albeit with question-marks. Hernandez and Reyes could also help sooner than expected.

There is also the core of a strong offense here, with Rizzo, Darnell, Gyorko, the enigmatic Decker, broad-skilled Tekotte, and overlooked Belnome ready or almost ready for extensive major league trials. Tools hound Liriano has a high ceiling and put some things together in '11. If Donavan Tate stays on the field long enough to learn baseball, he still has star-caliber tools. Galvez, Peterson, and Rincon would all get a lot more attention in other farm systems.

All told, this is a very rich system with exciting players at all levels.

Comment 140 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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The

NL West seems like it will be the most balanced and competitive division over the next several years.

No one team is super far behind in major league talent. Just kinda throwing stuff at the wall I’d rank it probably as..

Diamondbacks
Rockies
Giants
Padres

and every team has a solid system. In fact, I might be crucified by saying this, but the team that might lag behind in the future may be the Giants.

Anyway, the NL West looks like a type of division that has 4 different winners in a span of 7 years. Should be fun.

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 10, 2011 5:45 PM EST reply actions  

Haha

wow. I completely forgot about them. /Embarrassed

The Dodgers major league talent is decent. Kemp, Kershaw.. and then Gordon, Billingsly, and Either.

Decent farm system too, although I think it’s at the bottom of NL west.

Dodgers can spend though – at least they have the market too – so who knows.

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 10, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

as a giants fan

this post made my day. completely ignoring the dodgers is even better than insulting them…accidental genius.

by James Westfall on Dec 10, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I tend to agree that the NL West will be a strong division over the next several years

But I think as it currently stands, the Giants have by far the best established core of all of them (and I would wager any in baseball outside of Tampa or possibly Atlanta).

3 bonafide #1’s in their 20s is a tremendous asset:
Madison Bumgarner – 22
Matt Cain – 27
Tim Lincecum – 28

2 position players with elite offensive/defensive ability at positions that are largely weak league-wide:
Buster Posey – 25
Pablo Sandoval – 25

They also are able to maintain a payroll significantly higher than all the others, although that will change with the Dodgers acquire new ownership. $130m for 2012 currently projects as 5th highest in the majors.

I will, however, agree that they probably have the weakest farm of the bunch. But since few prospects with great potential become impact players, a guy doing so on a MLB roster already is worth far more than several with the same upside still on the farm.

by OrgoneDonor on Dec 12, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions  

you'll have some convincing to do

that the Giants have a better core than the DBacks.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Dec 13, 2011 9:44 AM EST up reply actions  

How's that now?

Cahill and Hudson are both nice young arms and compare favorably to Bumgarner. None of them are even in the same conversation as Lincecum, or Cain for that matter. If you’re talking central building pieces, the Giants current “established core” rotation is many steps ahead of Arizona’s.

Offensively, I like Upton slightly more than Posey, but Panda is ahead of Montero by a decent margin. If you want to count Young among the young “established core” for Arizona, then they get the nod among position players. But not to anything near a degree that overtakes the gap on the pitching side.

by realitypolice on Dec 13, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions  

when you include

three more A starting pitching prospects, two of whom are close now, it should keep the Snakes a perennial NL West power for good while. That, and aside from Ryan Roberts (31), every other starting position player is 28 or less.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Dec 13, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

The guy you’re responding to specifically said he was talking about “established core” at the big league level and then stipulated that the Giants’ farm system is the weakest in the division.

(Of course, I couldn’t manage the reading comprehension to even notice what player was being discussed earlier in the thread, so I probably can just keep my mouth shut on such matters!)

Also, Aaron Hill is a starter and over 28. Stephen Drew will be as well before they arrive at Chase next April.

by realitypolice on Dec 13, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

yoyu're right.

Hill is 29 and Drew will be 29. As far as the core question, I’m not really sure what it means since it’s a pretty contrived limitation. I was saying that regardless of the Giants strong pitching threesome, it seems to me that the Snakes are in a pretty solid position for the next several years assuming that they can hold on to most of their players.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Dec 13, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Are you familiar with the term defensive spectrum? In case it wasn’t clear, I meant as overall positional players.

by realitypolice on Dec 13, 2011 9:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

"defensive spectrum"

Yes, it was the use of the word “offensively” that gave it away. lol

by charles wallace on Dec 15, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Offensive players

I thought it was pretty obvious that there were two groups of players in the conversation, pitchers and offensive players. Apologies for not speaking quite slowly enough.

by realitypolice on Dec 16, 2011 7:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Uh huh

You’re definitely giving new meaning to “defensive spectrum”.

by charles wallace on Dec 16, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

And

I’m talking about your sensitivity, not the baseball sense. You know, in case it wasn’t clear. lol

by charles wallace on Dec 16, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions  

it's pretty clear...

That the Giants have better starting pitching now and just as clear that the Snakes have the best minor league starting pitching… Since MiLB pitching frequently doesn’t develop as expected (or hoped), I think the edge goes to the Giants. But I do think it’s a slight edge…

-peter

by PeterF on Dec 13, 2011 1:52 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

it's not pretty clear if

you take the view that Lincecum may have already peaked.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Dec 13, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

but as I said,

looking at the whole pix is a lot more meaningful than limiting the scope to just 3 SPers.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Dec 13, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

…but one thing we have to remember, and those of who love following the minors too frequently overlook, is that just because a player is the best prospect since [whenever or whomever] doesn’t mean they’ll pan out… As a Padres fan, we had the best 3B prospect in baseball, Sean Burroughs, who knew he’d get burned out on baseball and stop working at it, we had 2 of the top pitching prospects in the game Tankersley and Peavy; one flamed out, one won a Cy Young award…

We get so enamored with prospects we forget the hardest promotion is not from High-A to AA but to the bigs… The Freak may have peaked but he’s arrived and still has years of productivity left… There’s huge value in that. If you’re asking who has the best starting pitching now, the Giants… But if you’re asking who to build around, take Bauer or Bradley… It’s not the same point of view.

-peter

by PeterF on Dec 13, 2011 3:00 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

I'd build around Lincecum, thanks!

Seven pitchers have put up at least 9 WAR for their original team over the last two years. Cain and Lincecum are two of them.
If things go really well for the Diamondbacks, it’s entirely possible one of their guys will be able to make that claim by the end of the 2016 season.

by realitypolice on Dec 13, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

it's really not about the past.

it’s about who has the best chance of succeeding in the future. and I don’t think the Giants have any composite advantage over the DBacks in the near term.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Dec 13, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Lincecum + Cain will remain a HELL of a lot better than whatever duo of DBacks pitchers you want to consider in this exercise for the next 3-5 years.

Now, it’s entirely possible Cain will be pitching somewhere else after 2012, and you can certainly make the case for the value of Bauer/whomever at $500K each for 2013-15 over Lincecum/Cain for $35M per year, but that’s a different conversation than which duo is better looking forward.

by realitypolice on Dec 13, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

why are we only looking at duos though?

i think i’d take IPK/Hudson/Cahill/Bauer/Skaggs over any five the Giants can field over the next five years

by blue bulldog on Dec 13, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

but

Lince, Cain, MadBum, Vogel, Wheel… oh wait! ;-)

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Dec 13, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Just to be clear, I really dislike the Giants, both in terms of the goobers they have in the front office and as a fan of another NL West team. But if you’re looking at big league starting pitching right now, (which is what both Orgone and Peter focused on above), it’s more than just “pretty clear” that the Giants have a better rotation for 2012 than the Diamondbacks. Even if you make the less-than-certain claim that Lincecum has already peaked.

xFIP has the highest correlation to future performance of any of the stats out there. Here are 2011 #s
MadBum (who I was certain was going to bust) 3.10
Lincecum 3.36
Cain 3.78
Vogelsong 3.85

Ian Kennedy 3.50
Hudson 3.79
Cahill 3.90

I might take the overall package of current big leaguers and prospects of the DBacks over the Giants’, but that’s not what either of the original conversation starters were discussing.

by realitypolice on Dec 13, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

7 of the top 10

are Hoyer/McLeod products from the past two years. That’s impressive.

by polyrhythm07 on Dec 10, 2011 6:11 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Sorry but only 4 of 7

Sampson came in 2009 (Fuson last draft). I thought that draft was great but it didn’t get much press

Liriano was found by Randy Smith (current scouting director) and crew under Sandy Alderson, Depo and Fuson.

Gyorko I believe was also drafted by Fuson in 2009 but I could be wrong?

At the end of 2008 the pads front office agreed that they established depth; and starting with, the opening of their academy and with the 2009 draft they set a plan for higher reward players like Tate etc. The vision was welcomed by Moorad and partly was why he bought the team (before he bought the team brynes told him as an evaluator he ranked the system 4th). Depo stayed around in 2010 and helped the transition under Hoyer after Sandy and Fuson got let go in the ownership change for the Boston guys. Sandy then got hired by the Mets and Depo opted to leave before 2011. After 2011 Hoyer leaves, and now we’re all caught up.

by johnnycomelately9 on Dec 11, 2011 4:31 AM EST up reply actions  

No, it is 7 out of the top 10

Gyorko was the first pick taken & signed with Hoyer at the helm. The only players on the top 10 that came prior to Hoyer/McLeod were Liriano, Sampson & Darnell.

by Amish_Willy on Dec 11, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah it's 7 out of 10

Definitely a tough blow losing 2 good front office guys in Hoyer and McLeod. Even if Byrnes is a solid GM, losing 2 guys like that from the front office has to hurt.

by Antonio Olivares on Dec 11, 2011 8:36 PM EST up reply actions  

That's a new angle
I know he doesn’t have a blistering fastball, but the guy has superb command of deceptive stuff, plus pornographic statistics

Whoa. If we’re ranking guys based on junk size I’m outta here!

by Woo! on Dec 10, 2011 6:25 PM EST reply actions  

Rincon

I love the quotation marks around 3B. BTW, I heard Sampson is closer to 6’2 now. Is that true?

by richie dagger on Dec 10, 2011 6:34 PM EST reply actions  

really like

the Erlin/Wieland rankings

Jaff Decker – Still think this guy is going to be a major leaguer. The bat seems likely to play in the big leagues, considering he was a 21 year old in AA. Maybe I’m just too stuck up on that absurd line he posted as a 19 year old in the MWL though.

by blue bulldog on Dec 10, 2011 6:42 PM EST reply actions  

Decker...

I think is under-rated… He had such odd splits hit MUCH better at San Antonio (maybe the most extreme pitchers’ park in MiLB) and hit for low ave in hitter-friendly Texas Lg. parks… In addition, he hit very well in AFL… He’s still a well-above average hitter.

-peter

by PeterF on Dec 10, 2011 6:42 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions  

AFL on MLB

Just a strictly amateur observation from seeing Decker in some AFL at bats : he doesn’t seem to command the batter’s box when he’s there, the body language, stance, demeanor, etc. He’s not passive in approach but he lacks the swagger. Maybe it was just the small sample size.

by jjmalden on Dec 10, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I think his confidence might have taken a blow the past year

When I had seen him in Lake Elsinore he definitely had some swagger in the box.

by Antonio Olivares on Dec 10, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

3 things

How old are you assuming Alcantara is? That is a fairly ridiculous, age appropriate line if he is 18. If he’s 20, well yeah.

Also, love the Casey Kelly ranking. I would have him behind Erlin and Weiland as well. At some point guys ceilings must be adjusted and we can’t hold on to what players were supposed to be two years ago.

I also agree with the Decker statements above, I just wish he didn’t have to play in such an enormous outfield. He’d be more valuable in a smaller park where the arm would play more so than the range.

by peachesnnuts on Dec 10, 2011 7:02 PM EST reply actions  

alcantara

I have no idea how old he is…or if his name is even Alcantara, lol

by John Sickels on Dec 10, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Decker...

…has above-average range for a COF, enough so that he filled in at CF on occasion. He’s ideal for Petco.

-peter

by PeterF on Dec 10, 2011 7:58 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

I don't know if he's ideal

But he shouldn’t be a liability out there. I expect him to play average defense with well above average offense. I basically think he’ll be Nick Swisher, but with more speed and a higher babip.

by Antonio Olivares on Dec 10, 2011 8:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Brian Giles

I kind of like that one. Decker’s minor league showings were more impressive then Giles, so maybe there’s hope. If Blanks or Darnell establishes themselves in LF, I’d give Decker the opportunity to prove he doesn’t belong in RF in 2013. 80-100 walks & 20-30 hr’s, the high-end which might be 5 or 6 years from now. Lot to like there.

by Amish_Willy on Dec 11, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd definitely be happy with that

Giles peak was pretty great, and surprisingly long. 8 years in a row above 4 WAR.

by Antonio Olivares on Dec 11, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I like the Brian Giles comp.

I hope Decker uses this year to take that next step forward and force the Padres hand to give him a shot at making the roster in 2013.

by PadresFuture on Dec 11, 2011 8:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Decker

…I prefer Decker in LF, Blanks @ 1B, Darnell in RF & trade Rizzo (his left-handed swing is terrible for Petco – Decker’s isn’t as bad because he takes so many walks & hits for a higher ave.)…

-peter

by PeterF on Dec 11, 2011 9:34 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

It's crazy to see the pitching talent in the "others" category

Barbato, Castro, Cates, Lollis, Portillo…These guys all have big potential. Castro is likely a reliever, but he could be groomed into a shut-down closer. I remember not too long ago when the “others” section of this list would be filled with pure organizational depth and Paul McAnulty.

by walnut falcons on Dec 10, 2011 7:29 PM EST reply actions  

so

It sure looks like Castro will head to the bullpen at some point, huh?

by noelman31 on Dec 11, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope so.

I think he could be good there. But his problem has always been repeatable mechanics. That’s probably going to dog him his whole career.

"When you find your way. Then you see it disappear."

by padmadfan on Dec 11, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I think so

But certainly don’t hope so. He could still be a good starter.

by Antonio Olivares on Dec 11, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Liriano

someone made a comp. of Raul Mondesi, is that a decent one or there one that you liken him to?

by BryceHarper on Dec 10, 2011 7:42 PM EST reply actions  

I comp him to Trout offensively.

He had over 60 steals last season so that gives you an idea of his speed. I think he’s going to grow into the power like Trout is expected. I’m probably alone but I think he’s a favorable comp.

by johnnycomelately9 on Dec 11, 2011 4:36 AM EST up reply actions  

You are definitely alone!

by realitypolice on Dec 11, 2011 8:16 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Kenny Lofton might be a bit better than Trout

Moderate power but not projectable past about 12-15 HR per year as a pro. I’d like to see his walk rate uptick just a bit more but he’s pretty close to 10% with just under 20% k-rate for 2011. Definitely good steps taken.

by dbreer23 on Dec 11, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

except

Lofton was a fairly skinny dude, by baseball standards. Liriano’s body type has gotten him the Mondesi/Sosa. Pretty sure I read he’s now in the 215-220 range, on his 6-foot frame.

He’s going to see an increase in his power advancing to Lake Elsinore, almost all do. There’s not a players in the organization that I think has a better shot of being a perennial 30-hr guy then Liriano, aside from Rizzo. Lofton was never a threat to be a 30-30 guy, Liriano just might be.

by Amish_Willy on Dec 11, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

agree

I don’t see a Lofton comp. I would be really surprised if he didn’t develop more power. I like the Mondesi comp more.

by walnut falcons on Dec 11, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Power

I’m with John – I don’t see that type of HR power developing for Liriano. He currently doesn’t sacrifice his swing to hit it over the fence, and just the height/weight alone don’t indicate that he’ll be a power hitter. Hell, Mark Grace was 6’2" 200 lbs; Sean Casey was 6’4" 215 lbs. Neither would be confused with a power hitter, but Eric Davis was 165 lbs (God bless his wrists…).

I’d actually rather that he not change his approach just to gain more power, because some other aspect of his game (contact due to approach, speed due to bulk) will likely suffer, and the power won’t translate once he reaches SD. Maybe a lesser version of Eric Davis is where he ends up (if you know of a name that fits, please fill in, but my brain just isn’t there this morning), though I see 20 HR as the ceiling for his power as opposed to 30 HR, at least perennially.

by dbreer23 on Dec 11, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd say

6’, 220 is more physical then your 6’2", 200 lbs & 6’4" 215 lbs example’s, IMO. Liriano is one strong hombre who has been putting on some of the most impressive pre-game hitting displays amongst recent Padre prospects in terms of power. At the age of 22 he’s going to be a very physical player and that’s still a year and a half away. I’d expect his hr’s to increase to 18-22 in 2012 & 20-25 in 2013. If he’s playing in Tucson in 2014, put me down for 30.

I’m more concerned with his ability to continue to make above-average contact going forward then I am his power not developing as suggested.

by Amish_Willy on Dec 11, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

They’re wrong on both counts.

by realitypolice on Dec 12, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Huh?

In the scouting reports for the BA list that came out today, it lists him as 6’ 211 lbs.

by dbreer23 on Dec 12, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, the weight is much closer. During his offseason workouts, he reported his updated measurements at “just below” 6’2 and 214.

by realitypolice on Dec 12, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I'M STUPID

Rewardreading comprehension dail… My comments are about Keyvius.

by realitypolice on Dec 13, 2011 7:15 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Apparently typing fail too… I should just go back to bed!

by realitypolice on Dec 13, 2011 7:16 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

In the current BA magazine on the NL West prospects

they had him at 6’0 & 230. Pretty sure I read on MadFriars him being 220 during the year. Regardless if he’s not that size now he probably will be in the not too distant future. Well built dude. Much more bulk then the Kenny Lofton’s of the world.

by Amish_Willy on Dec 14, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Blanks!

I still think Blanks is the best chance at being a perennial 30-hr guy. Though still a long shot probably.

by Antonio Olivares on Dec 11, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Blanks > Rizzo

…and as a right-handed power hitter, Petco doesn’t hurt him as bad.

-peter

by PeterF on Dec 15, 2011 12:34 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

How about Justin Upton

I could see Liriano doing what Justin Upton does. Maybe slightly lower hit for average and 5 HR less ability.

by PadresFuture on Dec 11, 2011 8:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow

I thought I was higher on Rymer Liriano than just about everybody, but if his ceiling is anywhere near what you’re describing then everybody is missing the boat on him in a big way..

by Matt0330 on Dec 12, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

He and Johnny can fight it out for most absurdly optimistic homer “evaluations” on Rymer. Absolutely, the guy is totally fun to watch play and has an abundance of both skills and tools. But both Trout and Upton are just ridiculous comps to throw out there.

by realitypolice on Dec 12, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Upton

comp assumes Liriano reaches his potential. Liriano’s numbers will be suppresed by Petco and so we will likley not know if he can be Upton lite unless we evaluate him on the road more heavily. Also, I have concerns with Liriano as he sometimes struggles when the organization challenges him. If the 2011 breakout becomes the norm, he could be an elite prospect this time next year, ala Upton. Just too far away at the moment to really know for sure.

by PadresFuture on Dec 12, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I think most are

He’s the MWL MVP; and was ranked the top prospect in the league by the coaches. The industry’s analyst are behind… In 1-3 years they might rank him near or at the top of 100 list; but I and others already know he belongs in the top 40.

Like an earlier poster I’m mostly concerned with his contact rate. I believe the power will develop too.

by johnnycomelately9 on Dec 13, 2011 5:37 AM EST up reply actions  

I have him in the top 30 hitters… You comped him to one of the top 10 of the last decade.

by realitypolice on Dec 13, 2011 7:18 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

a year ago or so....

Badler, from BA, said he might have true 80 power potential… I doubt he reaches that, but it makes the Mondesi comp more realistic.

-peter

by PeterF on Dec 11, 2011 3:04 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Rizzo

I assume the Ryan Howard outcome is offensive production only? I’ve always heard that Rizzo should play average to above average defense at 1st in the MLB.

by polyrhythm07 on Dec 10, 2011 7:51 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Seems overly optimistic

To me. I don’t think Anthony Rizzo has that kind of power.

by Matt0330 on Dec 12, 2011 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Someone can fact check

but I think he holds (or held) the Florida High School Homerun record?

Personally I rank him behind Liriano. The problem with Rizzo is that his swing is too long. Scouts have been mentioning that since he was traded, when he was killing it in AAA before his call-up, and when he hit miserably in the majors. Regardless I think he’s going to figure it out. I look forward to his rookie campaign and will be more than satisfied as fan if he can put up Howard like numbers in Petco.

by johnnycomelately9 on Dec 13, 2011 5:51 AM EST up reply actions  

so will I...

…because I don’t think he can do it…

-peter

by PeterF on Dec 13, 2011 1:54 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Alcantara

Don’t Alcantara’s #‘s suggest he’s better than probably everyone from hedges on down?

by Trashman on Dec 10, 2011 8:26 PM EST reply actions  

Joe Ross

How does his delivery/mechanics compare to his older brother?

by James Westfall on Dec 10, 2011 9:21 PM EST reply actions  

Not sure but read great things about Ross pre draft and from instructs

After losing Bauer and Cole Joe Ross was going into UCLA as their top Freshman SP. Hedges was going to be his teammate their… instead of being his elite signal caller at UCLA he gets to be through the minors and maybe in the majors.

When I like at their top 10 I see those 2 guys everyone expected them not to sign; the 2 pitchers they got for Adams; and the return from the Agon trade. IMO they had a near top 10 system before but those things are what have them top 5 for me.

by johnnycomelately9 on Dec 11, 2011 4:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Not in Petco

Rizzo will never compare offensively to Howard playing half his games at Petco. Offensively in terms of raw power and rbi numbers. Overall, if Rizzo reached his potential we could see at best similar #’s to AGON at Petco… .280/.380/.510 with 35 hrs and 100 rbi.

by PadresFuture on Dec 11, 2011 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Rizzo < A-Gon

If Adrian couldn’t hit in Petco, Rizzo (Adrian light) won’t…

-peter

by PeterF on Dec 11, 2011 9:37 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Peterson

He’s a C+ player now, but does he have much upside – can he move his way up to being a B or B+ prospect in a year or so?

by dbreer23 on Dec 10, 2011 11:49 PM EST reply actions  

He was a supplemental but nobody expected him to hit like he did in his debut

He could have easily been slept on because he went to McNeese State; or he could have had a hot summer and develop slower.

by johnnycomelately9 on Dec 11, 2011 4:43 AM EST up reply actions  

he's basically all upside

Raw with big tools. If he learns to hit, could definitely see him warranting that kind of grade . . .but if there’s a breakout, I’m guessing it would be in 2013.

by mrkupe on Dec 11, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Jace

In a system as deep as this, his was the name that jumped out at me for being a lot higher than I expected. I had thought I was pretty aggressive with him at #26 on my list.

by realitypolice on Dec 12, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I am pretty bullish on him

The fact that his BB% increased while his K% decreased each month of his pro debut is pretty promising. In August he had a 15.6% BB% and a 12.3% K%. His ISO was low, but those are outstanding rates for a shortstop.

by Antonio Olivares on Dec 11, 2011 8:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Like Peterson

I was very high on Peterson prior to the draft and glad the Padres picked him up. He could be a breakout candidate next year and become a B prospect real soon. I think he is still 3 years away from the Majors though.

by PadresFuture on Dec 11, 2011 8:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Top 5 system !!!

With 6 B+, 2 straight B’s and another 6 B- players this has to be a top 5 system overall at least. Maybe not the elite talent at the top , per say, but the depth is ridiculous. It is about time us Padres fans have something to look forward to in the future!!!!

by jeffncynmac on Dec 11, 2011 3:07 AM EST reply actions  

maybe

going off John’s grades, it looks to me like Blue Jays and Cardinals have separated themselves at the top right now. i would have included Dbacks in this tier before Parker got traded.

and then after that, there’s a jumbled mess between the Rangers, Royals, Padres, Dbacks, Rays and Braves. not to mention, the Nats haven’t been ranked yet, and they have the elite talent at the top to vie for a Top 5 system spot in my opinion.

by blue bulldog on Dec 11, 2011 4:27 AM EST up reply actions  

The Dbacks are so top-heavy

Once you get past that sick glut of pitchers, there isn’t a whole lot to work with. The Padres system is less flashy, but definitely has a ton more depth.

by walnut falcons on Dec 11, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

i would probably take

the Padres system now after Parker has been traded

but honestly, you’re telling you would rather have 6 B+ than an A and 3 A-?

*shrug to each their own i guess

by blue bulldog on Dec 11, 2011 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

It's now an A and 2 A-'s.

Plus, Bauer and Bradley need to get a year under their belt before we can dutifully call them A prospects. The D’backs have a little more ceiling but less depth than the Padres. 6 in one half a doz in the other.

by PadresFuture on Dec 11, 2011 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Once you get past that sick glut of pitchers, there isn’t a whole lot to work with.

Disagree strongly. You should take another look. Their THIRD tier of pitchers is better than some teams have. Owings, Borchering, Pollock, Davidson aren’t chopped liver, either.

by alskor on Dec 12, 2011 12:22 AM EST up reply actions  

You have the right 10.

I think the Rays should be #1. The Cardinals should not be in the top 2, IMO. The Padres could fall anywhere from 2-8, imo. Just depends on what flavor you prefer. The players the padres from ranking 21-40 could be on several teams top 15 lists.

by PadresFuture on Dec 11, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions  

A's

(rankings not the team)

…are so rare, I gotta go w/ Arizona at #1… But yes, anywhere 2-8…

-peter

by PeterF on Dec 11, 2011 9:39 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

I would like the D-Backs more if one of those A's was a hitter.

Pitching depth is nice, but it has such as high attrition rate (look no further then the Royals of last year) that depending on them is a tab bit scary. I personally like the balance of the Padres system better, though you can not argue who has the the higher pure elite talent in it.

"Hey Laserlips. Your mama was a snowblower."

by AirmanSD on Dec 11, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

This is without a doubt one of the 5-7 TOP systems in baseball

so much “C+” depth its just silly.

Tekotte, Tate, Galvez, Fuentes, Bass, Brach, Peterson, Mike Kelly, Ed Rincon, Simon Castro, Matt Lollis, Andriesse, Adys Portillo “C” ? .

Just absolutely stout, know Cumberland is Un-Retired? wow just even deeper.

Yoenis Cespedes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9ge8l3jY8

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Dec 11, 2011 6:40 AM EST reply actions  

Another guy...

I expected to see get some love here (I figured he’d be a nearly top-20 guy) was Quackenbush… Using John’s phrase of “pornographic” statists, Q is definitely someone to keep an eye on.

-peter

by PeterF on Dec 11, 2011 4:16 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions  

quack

I like him a lot actually

by John Sickels on Dec 11, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

-peter

by PeterF on Dec 11, 2011 9:40 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Quackenbush

I saw him pitch a game up in Eugene…dude is an absolute beast!

by ZeFreed on Dec 11, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions  

system is too deep to rate a reliever too highly

although, as you said, gaudy stats. hope that he moves quickly

by walnut falcons on Dec 11, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions  

trust me

I know… And that’s my point.

-peter

by PeterF on Dec 11, 2011 9:40 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Speaking of the system

Following your top-30 over at FH, like the worlds longest tease, but that’s okay. This part on #10 Kelly confused me:

“Justin Verlander was recently awarded the 2011 AL Cy Young and the AL MVP. Coming up through the minors Verlander had pedestrian K/9 rates. Scouts said his performance would catch up his potential. That’s where we are with Casey Kelly.”

Verlander only made 20 starts in the minors while striking out 10.3/9… are you thinking of someone else?

by Amish_Willy on Dec 11, 2011 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Big oops...

I guess I was confusing his first two seasons (his first season: 11.1 IP, and his 2nd: 186 IP) he logged a 5.56 & 6.0 K/9 rates… I should have done a better job fact-checking… I remembered that (the low K/9 rates) but obviously missed on what I actually said.

Thanks for the correction.

-peter

by PeterF on Dec 12, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotta love the Quack.

"When you find your way. Then you see it disappear."

by padmadfan on Dec 11, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Erlin and Wieland for Adams...

In comparison to what the White Sox got for Santos (Nestor Molina) do you think:

a) The Padres hit the perfect storm at the time when trading Adams.
b) The White Sox got ripped off for Santos.
c) Adams is just better and therefore worth more than Santos.

by polodude017 on Dec 11, 2011 5:42 PM EST reply actions  

In reference to C...

wouldn’t Santos’ contract make any talent gap negligible though?

by polodude017 on Dec 11, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

not necessarily in this case

The Rangers were looking to make a deep playoff run. I think they would have paid extra for the player who was better at the present time.

by mrkupe on Dec 11, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Precisely

I can’t fault them for the move either. Strike while the hammer while the iron is hot.

by Matt0330 on Dec 12, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

A, kind of

You have to pay a premium to get assets at the trade deadline.

by alskor on Dec 11, 2011 7:31 PM EST up reply actions  

D

The Rangers just like to overpay for relievers?

by blue bulldog on Dec 11, 2011 8:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Lovin

how deep this system has become. We have a decent major league pitching rotation in AA alone. Add to that Ross, Barbato, Portillo, Lollis, and Sampson… wow. If just one of these 5 turns out to be an Ace, the Padres will have the best pitching rotation in baseball in 2014.

by PadresFuture on Dec 12, 2011 2:25 PM EST reply actions  

I think all of these guys will be average to above average starters

In the order in which I believe in them:

Wieland
Sampson
Erlin
Ross
Kelly
Ormas
Castro

I Like others as well like Reyes, Lollis, etc but I think all 7 of these guys have top of the rotation stuff. I also included Castro because despite his 2011 I really like his upside. I think he can put up numbers in Petco that reflect his 2010 season; but at this point he need to show more consistency in his strike throwing. His slider though is a serious 3rd strike pitch.

by johnnycomelately9 on Dec 13, 2011 6:10 AM EST reply actions  

Man

I guess i need to get on the Rymer Liriano Bandwagon.

Good system overall. I like the balance.

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2011 11:32 AM EST reply actions  

I also had him as the #2 position player in the system (behind Gyorko though, although like John, have all three as B+). I know the brief Cal League numbers this year scared some people, but it’s worth noting that he somehow managed to post a .167 BABIP in those first few weeks. For a guy with his speed and rate splits (62% GB and 16% LD), it’s pretty much impossible to believe he could pull that off again even if he tried. Had a few more balls fallen in or gotten through a hole in early April, it’s pretty unlikely he would have found his way back to Ft. Wayne when Tate and Williams collided.

by realitypolice on Dec 13, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Keyvius

I was puzzled by BA’s ranking (10) of him, as well as the profile. I thought Goldstein would be a bit higher but it wasn’t significantly. Do you think his height is holding him back? Obviously, the 3rd pitch polish is an issue, but we’re talking about a young pitcher with some solid, if not electric, stuff and a repeatable delivery….

by killa on Jan 7, 2012 12:02 AM EST reply actions  

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