Baltimore Orioles Top Prospects for 2012
Baltimore Orioles Top 20 Prospects for 2012
The list and grades are a blending of present performance and long-term potential. Comments are welcome, but in the end all analysis and responsibility is mine of course. Full reports on all of players can be found in the 2012 Baseball Prospect Book. We are now taking pre-orders. Order early and order often!
QUICK PRIMER ON GRADE MEANINGS:
Grade A prospects are the elite. They have a good chance of becoming stars or superstars. Almost all Grade A prospects develop into major league regulars, if injuries or other problems don't intervene. Note that is a major "if" in some cases.
Grade B prospects have a good chance to enjoy successful careers. Some will develop into stars, some will not. Most end up spending several years in the majors, at the very least in a marginal role.
Grade C prospects are the most common type. These are guys who have something positive going for them, but who may have a question mark or three, or who are just too far away from the majors to get an accurate feel for. A few Grade C guys, especially at the lower levels, do develop into stars. Many end up as role players or bench guys. Some don't make it at all.
A major point to remember is that grades for pitchers do NOT correspond directly to grades for hitters. Many Grade A pitching prospects fail to develop, often due to injuries. Some Grade C pitching prospects turn out much better than expected.
Also note that there is diversity within each category. I'm a tough grader; Grade C+ is actually good praise coming from me, and some C+ prospects turn out very well indeed.
Finally, keep in mind that all grades are shorthand. You have to read the full comment in the book for my full opinion about a player, the letter grade only tells you so much. A Grade C prospect in rookie ball could end up being very impressive, while a Grade C prospect in Triple-A is likely just a future role player.
1) Manny Machado, SS, Grade A: He wasn't quite the same after the knee injury and he was rushed to High-A, but I am still very impressed with the overall balance of skills and tools, and he's still just 19.
2) Dylan Bundy, RHP, Grade A-: Number One starter potential, but I'd like to see how his talent translates into pro ball before going with a higher grade. As high school pitchers go, I am very confident in him, but until we see him pitch in pro ball I'll go with position-player Machado.
3) Jonathan Schoop, INF, Grade B: Borderline B+. We will have to see where he settles in positionally. I think the bat is going to develop even more than people currently anticipate. Might go with the straight B+.
4) Jason Esposito, 3B, Grade B-: Excellent defender at third base, could win gold gloves if he hits enough to play regularly. Has power, but approach/plate discipline are questionable.
5) Robert Bundy, RHP, Grade B-: Doesn't have as much talent as his younger brother but a solid prospect, could develop into number three or four starter/workhorse type, or perhaps a power reliever if changeup gives trouble.
6) Dan Klein, RHP, Grade B-: Knows how to pitch, good stuff, persistent shoulder problems are the issue here. If he stays healthy it is plausible he could make the team out of spring training if given the opportunity.
7) Nick Delmonico, 3B, Grade B-: Excellent power potential, but he didn't hit as well in high school as he should have and glove at third base will need work. Potential to rank several spots higher next year if he adapts properly.
8) Parker Bridwell, RHP, Grade C+: High-ceiling arm, scouts love his ceiling and projectability but still learning how to pitch and integrate his secondary pitches with sinking fastball.
9) Ryan Adams, 2B, Grade C+: He has some flaws (strikeouts), but he's also got pop and the ability to handle second and third base. Not a star, but I expect a long career.
10) Glynn Davis, OF, Grade C+: Bold ranking for me, but there is something about this guy I like. Local undrafted talent signed for $100,000. Blazing speed, somewhat raw at the plate but will already take some walks, and 6-3, 170 body offers power projection. NY-P sources were very impressed.
11) L.J. Hoes, OF, Grade C+: Hits for average, make contact, can swipe a base, but lacks the power for corner outfield. Some people like him better than this but he looks like a tweener-type to me. Less risk than Davis and closer to the majors but not as much upside.
12) Clay Schrader, RHP, Grade C+: One of several high-ceiling relief arms with big strikeout numbers but control issues.
13) Eduardo Rodriguez, LHP, Grade C+: We need to see him at a higher level than the Gulf Coast League, but he's deceptive and well ahead of most 18-year-olds in pitchability.
14) Oliver Drake, RHP, Grade C+: Nice fastball/slider combination, could develop into workhorse starter or more likely a reliever, added to 40-man roster.
15) David Baker, RHP, Grade C+: Live arm, secondary pitches coming around, performed well in Low-A, under-the-radar sleeper due to limited innings but a breakthrough candidate.
16) Mike Wright, RHP, Grade C+: Nice power sinker, good slider, another guy who could be an impressive reliever or a less-dominant-but-workhorse starter.
17) Trent Mummey, OF, Grade C+: Forgotten man due to missing season with injury, but when healthy I think he has a broader range of skills than Matt Angle and Kyle Hudson, his competitors in "future fourth outfielder" contest although they will get chances before he does.
18) Kyle Simon, RHP, Grade C+: Ground ball expert from 2011 draft, former University of Arizona ace.
19) Joe Mahoney, 1B, Grade C: He's proven he can mash Double-A pitching, but he turns 25 in May and some scouts still doubt that he'll be anything more than a Quadruple-A slugger.
20) Gabriel Lino, C, Grade C: Strong defensive catcher, hit well in the GCL but 78 at-bat sample is small. Orioles sources regard him as a major sleeper. I might bump him up to a C+ which would put him ahead of Mahoney and maybe higher.
OTHERS: Matt Angle, OF; Matt Antonelli, 2B; Xavier Avery, OF; Roderick Bernadina, OF; Zach Davies, RHP; Jaime Esquivel, RHP; Pedro Florimon Jr, SS; Mychal Givens, INF; Matt Hobgood, RHP; Trent Howard, LHP; Connor Narron, 3B; Wynn Pelzer, RHP; Ashur Tolliver, LHP; Tyler Townsend, 1B; Sebastian Vader, RHP.
This isn't a great system and there is a distinct lack of star potential once you get past the top three, but it is NOT empty and progress has been made in recent years. There is good depth in Grade B-/C+ types, and some of them (and some of the Grade Cs) are young and/or projectable enough to rank higher next year with proper development.
The ranking of the C+ guys is problematic. Everything #10 and later is quite fluid, and you are going to see a lot of variation in Orioles prospect lists beyond the top few.
I am particularly interested in the development of arms like Bridwell, Schrader, Rodriguez, and Baker. Sebastian Vader is also a prospect to watch although we need to see him outside the GCL and non-Orioles sources aren't as intrigued as Baltimore fans or sci-fi geeks. Vader's batterymate Lino is also quite interesting as a potentially strong defender with power in his bat. Also keep track of young pitchers Jaime Esquivel and especially Zach Davies.
There are several role players ready or almost ready for the majors, with Adams, Klein, Hoes, Drake, Mahoney, Angle all plausible contributors in the next year or two. None of them are going to be cornerstones, but they can all do something. The ranking of Glynn Davis is aggressive. He's risky, but has upside, my intuition is binging positive on him and word-of-mouth is good.
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$100,000 for an undrafted player seems high
Was there a reason Davis went undrafted?
Davis
Well he went to a junior college in Maryland. He has 75 or 80 speed and a chance to hit for power.
by John Sickels on Nov 27, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
6'3, 170
that guy needs to eat some of my mom’s cooking.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Nov 27, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
I'll hazard a guess
He’s probably one of the only white players who could ever make that claim
What claim?
That he needs to eat Joel Guzman’s Scout’s Mom’s cooking? (I don’t think I’ve ever thrown down three straight " ’s " before…)
or that he’s a white dude with 75/80 speed?
how fast are Gary Brown, Peter Bourjos, Brett Gardner, Jacoby Ellsbury and Mike Trout? Ever? Wasn’t Mickey “The Commerce Comet” Mantle considered the “Fastest Man to First Base”? 3.1 seconds is PDQ.
I’m not actually saying any of those guys have or had 75/80 speed. Im not a scout, I have no idea how to grade a guys speed. I’m pretty sure there’s alot more to it than looking at stolen base totals and I do know all of the above are/were faster than most, furthermore I think its folly to assume white guys aren’t fast or that black guys are just because they white or black.
Let's not overreact
I think the point was that most raw prospects with plus-plus speed and unrealized power potential are black guys, Anthony Gose being the prime example. There are exceptions to every rule, and a few of the guys you mention definitely qualify. African-American players do tend to have more speed (there’s a reason white guys don’t win sprinting titles).
Anyways, among the guys you mentioned, Trout definitely doesn’t have 80 speed and Gardner doesn’t have any power to speak of. I also think that it tends to be the case that raw hitters tend to be black, and come out of highschool. Davis is unusual in this respect.
Trout definitely does have 80 speed.
One of the fastest guys in the Major Leagues.
90 speed
I bet Billy Hamilton is faster
by James Westfall on Nov 28, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
whoops i forgot we meant only WHITE's.
in that case Billy Hamilton was a 90 lol.
by James Westfall on Nov 28, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
It was just a little unexpected to google him and see that he was a white guy
There are plenty of very fast white players, such as all the guys you mentioned. My understanding of the 20-80 scale is that 75-80 speed is truly elite, Trout is probably in that range, I don’t know that the others are but they might be, I haven’t seen a ton of them. The points made by gabrielsyme is basically exactly what I was getting at. I wasn’t trying to sound ignorant or anything I was just sort of surprised he was white after reading John’s writeup.
is anyone else
thinking of the dialogue from the training montage in Stripes?
by AndrewTorrez on Nov 28, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Here's one guy's guide...
on how to grade speed:
Grade 60-yard Dash Home to First (RHH) Home to First (LHH)
80 6.4 seconds 3.9 seconds 3.8 seconds
70 6.5 seconds 4.0 seconds 3.9 seconds
60 6.6 seconds 4.1 seconds 4.0 seconds
50 6.7 seconds 4.2 seconds 4.1 seconds
40 6.8 seconds 4.3 seconds 4.2 seconds
30 6.9 seconds 4.4 seconds 4.3 seconds
20 7.0 seconds 4.5 seconds 4.4 seconds
From http://baseballprospectnation.com.
there's no way that a 7.0 60 yard dash is 20 speed...
billy butler and many others would kill to be able to run that
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 28, 2011 8:34 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah...
the 60-yard dash speeds dont seem right at all. From Home to 1B is 90 feet, or 30 yards so 60 yards is twice that. I dont know how long a time it takes a batter to get up to speed or what distance he would cover in that time, but for each extra length of time it takes to run 30 yards, it should about twice that extra time to run 60 yards. But the 60 yard dash times go up in increments of 1 tenth of a second, just like the increments for the 30 yard dash times. They should go up in increments of about 2 tenths of a second. So if the Grade 80 time for the 60-yd dash is correct, and the increments for the 30-yd dash are correct, the time for Grade 20 should be about 7.6 secs. That still seems a little fast for a very slow player. Around 8.0 secs seems more right, How fast does Butler run the 60-yd? Is his speed rated at 20? I think there are a lot of players that are even slower.
Davis
My theory with him is that A) He didn’t play his senior year of high school so he was somewhat unknown, at least by scouts and B) Maryland juco’s aren’t exactly hotbeds for talented prospects so its easy for someone with his background to get overlooked.
Having seen him play on my brother’s summer team last year, it’s very exciting to see him doing well in pro ball and ranking highly on prospect lists. He’s definitely a lottery ticket to say the least and he’s a long way away in my opinion. But, the power/speed combo is intriguing and I’m interested to see how he adapts to full season ball.
sebastian vader
whether or not he makes it in baseball, he can always fall back on the fact that he’s named “sebastian vader”
by wily mo on Nov 27, 2011 2:48 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
lots of minor-league teams have "Star Wars" night
last year, the Durham Bulls took the field with special “Star Wars”-themed jerseys (which were then raffled off for charity). So there’s a chance you could get a game-used, Star Wars-themed “Vader” jersey if you lived close to Frederick, Maryland.
by AndrewTorrez on Nov 28, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
relievers / strop
remind me what rule you use for qualifying / disqualifying relief pitchers for rookie status. because strop is still under 50 innings. did he run afoul of some days-on-the-roster rule you use, or are you just not ranking him?
relievers man
they’re always falling through the cracks. seriously, sometimes i think about starting a relievers-only prospect blog, nobody’s doing it
do it
i would be interested in reading it.
by James Westfall on Nov 28, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
I'd love to know
what the average career length for a reliever is. It can’t be more than a couple of years.
Just take a look at, say, the MLB leaders in relief holds from just 3 years ago. Of the top 20, seven were out of baseball by the end of 2010 (Shields, Guardado, Marte, Brocail, Mahay, Bradford, and Sanchez), and another was terrible (Tony Pena). Nine more regressed to become back-of-the-bullpen guys. Only 3 guys from the top 20 in 2008 were still top relievers in 2011: Scott Downs, Rafael Perez, and Heath Bell.
So you’re talking about a class of players with a 40% failure rate PLUS a 45% regression rate. That’s brutal.
by AndrewTorrez on Nov 28, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
sure
i mean that’s broadly true. there’s probably a lot of ways to design the experiment though. holds are a weird stat, to begin with. i’d want to filter for velocity or at least K rate somehow. you’re not taking age into account, either – guardado for example is out of baseball because he was old as heck, not because he was a comet; it’s not like he had a short career.
again not arguing that relievers aren’t volatile as a class of player, they clearly are
oh, sure
I just wanted a quick-and-dirty reference to show that the guys we care about in relief (i.e., pitchers pitching well in high-leverage roles) come and go.
by AndrewTorrez on Nov 29, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
hahaha...
awesome.
"Three thousand years of beautiful tradition,from Moses to Sandy Koufax,YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT I'M LIVING IN THE FUCKING PAST!"- Walter Sobchak
by j.q. higgins on Nov 28, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
Sing it!
John Schoop, Schoop, Schoop, oop-oop
There’s a man at second base we all know
(Johnny Schoop, Schoop, Schoop, oop-oop)
His play still got a long way to go
(Johnny Schoop, Schoop, Schoop, oop-oop)
He don’t eat nothin’ but a Cracker Jack mix
(Johnny Schoop, Schoop, Schoop, oop-oop)
Well, this cat’s name is-a Johnny Schoop
(Johnny Schoop, Schoop, Schoop, oop-oop)
(Johnny Schoop) He’s the toughest man there is alive
(Johnny Schoop) Wearin’ clothes from a Yankee fan’s hide
(Johnny Schoop) He’s the king of the Oriole club
(Look at that Schoop man go!!)
"The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three-run homers."
by ThreeRunHomer on Nov 30, 2011 8:32 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
i'm choosing to ignore that
very annoyed when i found out. i’m rolling with pronouncing it my way. of course i’m a person who’s been calling himself “wily mo” on the internet for ten years while still pronouncing it “why-lee” like the coyote, so you know what you’re getting with me at this point
+1
if we cant use these guys surnames as our punch line then eff it. I ignore anything I don’t want to hear or accept.
by James Westfall on Dec 1, 2011 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
Glad to see you have Machado on top.
Nothing against Bundy but I have Machado ahead and your list is the only other one I have seen with him on top.
I think John has it right
I’ll always take the five-tool shortstop who hit A-ball pitching at age 19.
by AndrewTorrez on Nov 28, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
okay, I'll bite
Xavier Avery at Grade C and out of the top 20 is pretty notable. It obviously wasn’t a good year, but it wasn’t like he completely fell off a cliff, and at only 21 in AA, it’s hard to get down too much on him just yet. Was the grade the result of bad buzz around him, or are you just that unhappy with his development?
avery
I just don’t think he’ll ever hit enough. You can put him ahead of Mahoney if you like due to better tools, but they are both Grade Cs for me
by John Sickels on Nov 27, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
Guys who slug .350 in the minors don’t make the majors. Just as a comparison, Juan Pierre out-slugged Avery by more than 40 points in the minors.
by AndrewTorrez on Nov 28, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
hob
He was reportedly showing good velocity in the NY-P although with command issues. He still has a chance.
by John Sickels on Nov 27, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting list,
It’s compelling that Fangraphs had Tyler Townsend #4 and you had him out of the top 20. Of course, given porous walk rates and injury problems, I think he is closer to 20 than he is to 4. Of course, the Orioles have a bunch of C+ prospects, it seems difficult to place them with any resolve.
If you look at those UZR ratings or whatever
23 in A-ball
but I agree; by John’s standards, I’d have Townsend as a borderline C+ guy. Third-rounder, good power, he’s just been slow to develop.
by AndrewTorrez on Nov 28, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
I'd take Mahoney before him
Year older, but hit at AA, and looked good in spring training last year.
Jonathan Schoop
Why such optimism for Schoop bat to develop?
I keep hearing a lot of average in terms of the bat…
Bench utility infielder type at the big leagues.
Would love to hear reason for optimism!
develop?
Dude hit .316/.376/.514 in A-ball last year despite being 2.5 years younger than the league average. It’s not his fault that the Orioles rushed him to Frederick — where, I might add, he still put up an above-average OPS (.704 vs. .700). He’s a legit B+ prospect with A-level upside if he can stick at 2B.
by AndrewTorrez on Nov 28, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
haha what
you keep hearing that where. i’m not reading that anywhere.
i’m reading stuff more like this
http://baseballnewshound.com/?p=1410
he was 19 and raked in low and high-A. (did have a promotion slump but then turned it back on)
he’s good
There are definitely some people who don't like him as much
Jason Parks on the most recent BP podcast said after seeing him that he didn’t see more than a 2nd division starter
If everybody likes you, then either no one knows anything about you, or you're dead.
Just pointing out that they exist
not that I at all agree with them
If everybody likes you, then either no one knows anything about you, or you're dead.
so that's weird
because i just looked at a parks article on BP from august (think it’s subscriber) where he’s listing the top overall prospect in the minors at each position and he gives 2B to wong but mentions that schoop might also deserve it
Found the article
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=14844
It’s not subscriber, but it seems he isn’t sold on Wong becoming a first division starter either.
As for the podcast, he was very brief, just mentioning that he didn’t see any plus tools IIRC
If everybody likes you, then either no one knows anything about you, or you're dead.
heh
i suppose that’s logical. everybody always hatin’ on 2B prospects. but you gotta have one!
eh he was probably wasted on warm negro modelo when he said that
the thing about the bat is that it’s (a) the most important thing and (b) less of a physical tool than the others, more of a skill, and it really seems like schoop has it
not that i’ve ever seen him myself of course, so whatever
I definitely disagree with Parks
and fall very far onto the positive side for Schoop, but I think when it comes to 2B you’re right, they get overlooked and when you have one who can hit like Kipnis/Wong/Schoop, that is a very, very good thing
If everybody likes you, then either no one knows anything about you, or you're dead.
'the thing about the bat is that it’s (a) the most important thing'
Can I use this as my signature? Just kidding, but seriously – thank you.
Billy Rowell
You ran the Lemke Guess Who, and Rowell had a far better pedigree coming out. John, do you think there’s any chance Billy Rowell ever puts it together and becomes a serviceable major leaguer?
Not even a qualified no
Just NO. That makes me sad, just one more busted top pick
isn't Rowell a minor-league free agent?
Last time I checked he was wandering around in RF, too.
by AndrewTorrez on Nov 29, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
Jacob Pettit
Any thoughts on Pettit? He pitched really well in the Carolina League this year and has generally pitched well at just about every stop.
really like the A- for bundy
I’m pretty high on him, since there aren’t enough Dylans in baseball….but it seems like an interesting system. Curious to see if the O’s go for more depth-type players in the next draft with the new restrictions.
Something clever...
Matt Antonelli
What do you think of Antonelli? A few years ago with San Diego he looked like a very good hitting prospect, with very good batting eye, good average and decent power (for a middle infielder). Then he got injured and seemed to forget how to take a pitch — let alone hit. Last year was finally a bit of a bounce back with Washington.
Does he have the makings of a starter? Or is going to bounce back and forth between 2b and 3b and never really make it?
(And why didn’t Washington keep him?)
did Ryan Berry come up in discussion for this list?
He’s got the injury bug, but he’s got talent.

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